It's all a matter of opinion, I would guess, the 'right' chords for any of these tunes. Try your own out and see what sounds good to you. I'd do D major without the F# note, C and some form of A minor.
EnDaC- I didn't say it was "D major" without the F# note
I said it was "D major without the F# note"
It's a common chord akin to other poular chord forms such as
"E major without the G# note"
I'm using zookman's computer but it's Tony O'Rourke here. I often play a D without the F or F# in it and refer to the chord as D Undefined.
My chords for Old Bush are something like this:
D C/ D / D C / D C / D C / D / D /D C //(1ST PART)
C / C G/ C /C Am/C /D /D /D C//(2ND PART)
I learnt the tune from a recording by banjo player Liam Farrell in a band called Le Cheile, with Raymond Roland on accordeon.
Regards
Tony O'Rourke
Diads/ perfect fifths/ triads/ power chords/ K blunt dim 7 b13th
The "chords" you refer to with no 3rds (neither major nor minor) only have two notes in them and are therefore diads and not chords. These are perfect fifths (beacause the notes D & A are a perfect fifth apart). True chords are triads (three notes) or what ever you call them with more than three notes! (quadrads, quintrads?).
However! popularly the "chords" you refer to are named e.g. D no 3rd or D5 (horrible!) or even worse "power chords" (because it's what electric six string devil twangers play when they want a loud powerful kerrang!)
jardineromi - Thanks for de-wonkerificating that link.
"The "chords" you refer to with no 3rds (neither major nor minor) only have two notes in them and are therefore diads and not chords."
Technically correct, I suppose. But rock musicians seem to get away with calling them 'power chords' without it diminishing their appeal. The suffix '5' (D5, A5 etc.) seems to be a fairly widely accepted shorthand for such 'diads'. (I have also seen it printed as the root note struck through with an oblique stroke).
What if you take a perfect fifth and add the flattened 7th? (e.g. D A C ) Is that a triad? Is it a chord?
...yeah...just play a D diad and C major chord. Hmmm. Nobody will know what the hell I'm talking about.....Better stick with 'D major without the F#'. I've always disliked the '3rds' makes everything sound so happy happy happy. God almighty what's next 7th chords?!!
Shanty:
Musical education is a good thing. The more we than can use the correct language, the better all us musicians can communicate our ideas. And encouragement to use the right terms is positive. Of course it’s the six string devil bashers who mainly go on about chords and they are the least musically educated group in musicdom. (N.B. GENERALLY speaking!)
Does you ‘dislike’ of thirds reach as far as leaving them out of tunes?!
And although you may be playing a “happy” major third it may not sound so depending on the mode or maybe the key you are in. If a moody minor tune starts on, say, an E minor chord the next one may be a “happy” D (major chord with major third in it). But the mood of the tune will remain sombre despite this. That’s because the D and F# note of that chord in that key are the 7th and 2nd of the Em key. (“Don’t mention modes!”)
Many a D mixolydian tune has a “menacing” mood but it probably being backed with two major chords (D major and C major both with “happy” thirds!)!
And there are two sorts of sevenths (dominant and major). In a truly major scale (Trad Irish) tune a dominant 7th is far from inappropriate and often used, of course. The major 7th is more of an added type chord, less functional, more often than not used for colour and may be of more sporadic and careful usage in a session!!
OrganicPeatCreature:
DAC? A triad? Yes; a chord? I’m not so sure!
But to name it… you’d have to call it D7 no 3rd (D seventh with no third), Am sus4 no 5th (A minor suspended fourth with no fifth) or C add 9 +6 no 3rd no 5th (C added ninth and sixth with no third no fifth!). Perhaps a partial ( or partial chord) is more appropriate! It’s like the compimg you’d expect in Duke Ellington or Oscar Peterson type stuff.
yhaaIhouse--- I answered the persons question about chords for the tune. And I'm being light hearted. Why lecture me? None of your terminology means a thing to me. It never will. I hate all that crap and I think it makes music boring and lifeless.
To answer your questions- no I don't leave notes out of tunes when I play them I was refering to chords which is what we're talking about. And on your Em tune I wouldn't follow it with happy D major, I'd follow it with a "D major without the F#"!!!!!!!!!!!!
My main instrument is whistle, by the way, why insult guitarists?
It would depend for me who I was playing with , when , how fast and the phase of the moon ,definitly D. ish and some C too unless some other folks were there and I would go to the bar Its ok to know all these a fancy names for chords and such but sometimes better to go to the bar than have a chord fight.
the old bush chords
the old bush chords
can anyone give me the right chords for the old bush?
thanks
# Posted on September 27th 2009 by michele bresciani
Re: the old bush chords
It's all a matter of opinion, I would guess, the 'right' chords for any of these tunes. Try your own out and see what sounds good to you. I'd do D major without the F# note, C and some form of A minor.
# Posted on September 27th 2009 by shanty
Re: the old bush chords
Maybe use a G major to brighten the 2nd part.
# Posted on September 27th 2009 by shanty
Re: the old bush chords
I've added a few chord options here in the comments:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/22738
# Posted on September 27th 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: the old bush chords
OPC, it looks like your link is wonkers, doesn't go to the page..
Here it is again:
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1499
# Posted on September 27th 2009 by jardineromi
Re: the old bush chords
D major without the F# note is not D major. Can't be a major chord without the major 3rd.
# Posted on September 27th 2009 by EnDaC
Re: the old bush chords
EnDaC- I didn't say it was "D major" without the F# note
I said it was "D major without the F# note"
It's a common chord akin to other poular chord forms such as
"E major without the G# note"
# Posted on September 27th 2009 by shanty
Re: the old bush chords
They're in the same chordal family as "that G chord you make on the third fret with your thumb on low E, middle finger barring the high E and B."
# Posted on September 27th 2009 by shanty
Re: the old bush chords
Sorta like D minor without the F nat...?
# Posted on September 27th 2009 by EnDaC
Re: the old bush chords
Exactly!
# Posted on September 27th 2009 by shanty
Re: the old bush chords
I'm using zookman's computer but it's Tony O'Rourke here. I often play a D without the F or F# in it and refer to the chord as D Undefined.
My chords for Old Bush are something like this:
D C/ D / D C / D C / D C / D / D /D C //(1ST PART)
C / C G/ C /C Am/C /D /D /D C//(2ND PART)
I learnt the tune from a recording by banjo player Liam Farrell in a band called Le Cheile, with Raymond Roland on accordeon.
Regards
Tony O'Rourke
# Posted on September 28th 2009 by zookman2
Re: the old bush chords
thank you very much guys
# Posted on September 28th 2009 by michele bresciani
Re: the old bush chords
Silly me, I thought you meant the chords for bush music, there's only two or three of them.
# Posted on September 28th 2009 by mcknowall
Diads/ perfect fifths/ triads/ power chords/ K blunt dim 7 b13th
The "chords" you refer to with no 3rds (neither major nor minor) only have two notes in them and are therefore diads and not chords. These are perfect fifths (beacause the notes D & A are a perfect fifth apart). True chords are triads (three notes) or what ever you call them with more than three notes! (quadrads, quintrads?).
However! popularly the "chords" you refer to are named e.g. D no 3rd or D5 (horrible!) or even worse "power chords" (because it's what electric six string devil twangers play when they want a loud powerful kerrang!)
# Posted on September 28th 2009 by yhaalhouse
Re: the old bush chords
jardineromi - Thanks for de-wonkerificating that link.
"The "chords" you refer to with no 3rds (neither major nor minor) only have two notes in them and are therefore diads and not chords."
Technically correct, I suppose. But rock musicians seem to get away with calling them 'power chords' without it diminishing their appeal. The suffix '5' (D5, A5 etc.) seems to be a fairly widely accepted shorthand for such 'diads'. (I have also seen it printed as the root note struck through with an oblique stroke).
What if you take a perfect fifth and add the flattened 7th? (e.g. D A C ) Is that a triad? Is it a chord?
# Posted on September 28th 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: the old bush chords
...yeah...just play a D diad and C major chord. Hmmm. Nobody will know what the hell I'm talking about.....Better stick with 'D major without the F#'. I've always disliked the '3rds' makes everything sound so happy happy happy. God almighty what's next 7th chords?!!
# Posted on September 29th 2009 by shanty
Re: the old bush chords
"Better stick with 'D major without the F#'."
What's wrong with calling it "D without the 3rd"? Then you're not committing to either major or minor.
# Posted on September 29th 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: the old bush chords
Shanty:
Musical education is a good thing. The more we than can use the correct language, the better all us musicians can communicate our ideas. And encouragement to use the right terms is positive. Of course it’s the six string devil bashers who mainly go on about chords and they are the least musically educated group in musicdom. (N.B. GENERALLY speaking!)
Does you ‘dislike’ of thirds reach as far as leaving them out of tunes?!
And although you may be playing a “happy” major third it may not sound so depending on the mode or maybe the key you are in. If a moody minor tune starts on, say, an E minor chord the next one may be a “happy” D (major chord with major third in it). But the mood of the tune will remain sombre despite this. That’s because the D and F# note of that chord in that key are the 7th and 2nd of the Em key. (“Don’t mention modes!”)
Many a D mixolydian tune has a “menacing” mood but it probably being backed with two major chords (D major and C major both with “happy” thirds!)!
And there are two sorts of sevenths (dominant and major). In a truly major scale (Trad Irish) tune a dominant 7th is far from inappropriate and often used, of course. The major 7th is more of an added type chord, less functional, more often than not used for colour and may be of more sporadic and careful usage in a session!!
OrganicPeatCreature:
DAC? A triad? Yes; a chord? I’m not so sure!
But to name it… you’d have to call it D7 no 3rd (D seventh with no third), Am sus4 no 5th (A minor suspended fourth with no fifth) or C add 9 +6 no 3rd no 5th (C added ninth and sixth with no third no fifth!). Perhaps a partial ( or partial chord) is more appropriate! It’s like the compimg you’d expect in Duke Ellington or Oscar Peterson type stuff.
# Posted on September 29th 2009 by yhaalhouse
Re: the old bush chords
D5add7?
D5add14?
# Posted on September 29th 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
More 'K blunt admonished 27th' stuff...
D5add7- not bad!
D5add14- NO! The convention only ever goes up to 13ths. A 14th would be a C# anyway. I suppose literally unconventionally D5add b14?!
Thank the gods that the uke is so limited!
Dave
# Posted on September 29th 2009 by yhaalhouse
Re: the old bush chords
"The convention only ever goes up to 13ths."
That's only because the 7th is assumed in 9ths, 11ths and 13ths, no?
# Posted on September 29th 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: the old bush chords
"...the 7th is assumed in 9ths, 11ths and 13ths, no?"
Yes, the 7th is assumed. And the 15th would be the tonic anyway.
# Posted on September 29th 2009 by Bob himself
Re: the old bush chords
yhaaIhouse--- I answered the persons question about chords for the tune. And I'm being light hearted. Why lecture me? None of your terminology means a thing to me. It never will. I hate all that crap and I think it makes music boring and lifeless.
To answer your questions- no I don't leave notes out of tunes when I play them I was refering to chords which is what we're talking about. And on your Em tune I wouldn't follow it with happy D major, I'd follow it with a "D major without the F#"!!!!!!!!!!!!
My main instrument is whistle, by the way, why insult guitarists?
# Posted on September 30th 2009 by shanty
Re: the old bush chords
chords are like painting the colours of the rainbow - if you mix the whole spectrum at once you end up with mud
anyway, the title of this trhead made me think of this:
http://img.flipkart.com/bk_imgs/196/9781406823196.jpg
Like there were some rustic chords to be discovered
# Posted on September 30th 2009 by Bren
Re: the old bush chords
It would depend for me who I was playing with , when , how fast and the phase of the moon ,definitly D. ish and some C too unless some other folks were there and I would go to the bar Its ok to know all these a fancy names for chords and such but sometimes better to go to the bar than have a chord fight.
# Posted on September 30th 2009 by bazouki dave