This is intended to be a discussion about discusssions. And I read once that Jeremy does not like such "meta-discussions." So if it disappears, that's fine, my feelings won't be hurt. (Also, my apologies for length.)
I understand that sessions should be somewhat free-form, non-bureacratic, unencumbered by a lot of rules. But I wanted to put this example out there anyway, if only to show an aspect of the Irish trad community that appeals to me.
The Mountaineers Club, of which I was once an employee, includes the following purposes in its charter.
-------------------------
To explore and study the mountains, forests and water courses of the Northwest and beyond
To gather into permanent form the history and traditions of these regions and explorations
To preserve by example, teaching and the encouragement of protective legislation or otherwise the natural beauty of the natural environment
To make expeditions and provide educational opportunities in fulfillment of the above purposes
To encourage a spirit of good fellowship among all lovers of outdoor life
-----------------
Substitute some terms, and this list could serve as the Noble Purposes of the session community. Ideally. IMHO. I hope we can all keep that sort of positive, helpful, "good fellowship" attitude in mind, as we explore the highways and byways of Irish music.
In England there has been a series of attempts to define what Englishness is. It can't be done, and it shouldn't be done. As soon as I see words like 'charter' and 'purposes' and 'legislation', I groan.
It sounds like a list of what Comhaltas has aspired to do with regard to Irish traditional music.
But "to gather into permanent form (the) history and traditions" is a sentence that invites some quibbling about how, in practice, this can be done, and indeed whether it is not a contradiction in terms.
Recording and describing lots of music, say, as it happens is to take snapshots of history: one merely hopes these will last. History meanwhile goes on. Trying to *freeze* history and supposedly admirable traditions is another matter. Plenty of attempts seem to have been made to do this in history. They don't strike me as happy, whether it's the culture of the Spartans or the folkloric shows of totalitarian regimes.
And some traditions celebrated in songs etc. of the past are not admirable at all, in themselves - even if they were products of some historical predicament that made it likely that people would pursue them at that particular time.
I'm not talking about the specifics, but rather the general philosophy of serving a tradition larger than yourself--rather than using it to make yourself some kind of rock star, or win a p*ssing contest.
I have been lucky enough to meet some of the big names in Irish trad, and they appear to feel lucky to have this music, and are just happy to share it with people. No one is perfect, of course, and there is certainly some bickering behind the scenes--but that's the overall impression I get from the very best, most knowlegeable players. They enjoy this music, and enjoy sharing it. It's bigger than one person's ego.
All good advice, of course, but this is more what I meant:
------------
To explore and study the reels, jigs, and other tunes of the Irish musical tradition
To provide links to audio and video recordings, and other information about Irish traditional music
To preserve by example, teaching and the encouragement of good session etiquette the beauty of Irish tunes
To make expeditions and provide educational opportunities in fulfillment of the above purposes
To encourage a spirit of good fellowship among all lovers of Irish traditional sessions
--------------------
And no, I don't think there should be a Trad Police to enforce these ideals. I just try to keep them in mind, myself, when I'm tempted to post a negative comment here--obviously, it's a work in progress....
This is a tough one, Forrest. A good friend is someone who will let you know when there are corn kernels in your teeth. I agree, we need a good dose of civility on our most redundant discussions. Be careful what you ask for, since playing nice (sometimes) means not being honest.
Bottom line ~ controversy is essential to our discussions though no one has the right to yell "FIRE!" in a crowded website.
fidkid, I understand what you say about passion. Also, musicians tend to be easily stirred. Having said that, we often have a repetition of past history. {can you say, 'holding grudges'?}
I try to keep the perspective that as long as my session doesn't erupt with the same amount of lava, as smolders on this forum, then the crack (of the universe) is (however enigmatically) grand.
Nicholas, there is something "fishy" about the idea of "carping" at the generous ideals described in this thread.
Forrest Tucker, would you like for us to nominate you for the Nobel Prize? Or is that awarded only to residents of Sweden?
Noble Purposes
Noble Purposes
This is intended to be a discussion about discusssions. And I read once that Jeremy does not like such "meta-discussions." So if it disappears, that's fine, my feelings won't be hurt. (Also, my apologies for length.)
I understand that sessions should be somewhat free-form, non-bureacratic, unencumbered by a lot of rules. But I wanted to put this example out there anyway, if only to show an aspect of the Irish trad community that appeals to me.
The Mountaineers Club, of which I was once an employee, includes the following purposes in its charter.
-------------------------
To explore and study the mountains, forests and water courses of the Northwest and beyond
To gather into permanent form the history and traditions of these regions and explorations
To preserve by example, teaching and the encouragement of protective legislation or otherwise the natural beauty of the natural environment
To make expeditions and provide educational opportunities in fulfillment of the above purposes
To encourage a spirit of good fellowship among all lovers of outdoor life
-----------------
Substitute some terms, and this list could serve as the Noble Purposes of the session community. Ideally. IMHO. I hope we can all keep that sort of positive, helpful, "good fellowship" attitude in mind, as we explore the highways and byways of Irish music.
Sincerely yours,
Forrest "Pollyanna" Tucker
# Posted on September 26th 2009 by John Galt
Re: Noble Purposes
In England there has been a series of attempts to define what Englishness is. It can't be done, and it shouldn't be done. As soon as I see words like 'charter' and 'purposes' and 'legislation', I groan.
# Posted on September 26th 2009 by gam
Re: Noble Purposes
It sounds like a list of what Comhaltas has aspired to do with regard to Irish traditional music.
But "to gather into permanent form (the) history and traditions" is a sentence that invites some quibbling about how, in practice, this can be done, and indeed whether it is not a contradiction in terms.
Recording and describing lots of music, say, as it happens is to take snapshots of history: one merely hopes these will last. History meanwhile goes on. Trying to *freeze* history and supposedly admirable traditions is another matter. Plenty of attempts seem to have been made to do this in history. They don't strike me as happy, whether it's the culture of the Spartans or the folkloric shows of totalitarian regimes.
And some traditions celebrated in songs etc. of the past are not admirable at all, in themselves - even if they were products of some historical predicament that made it likely that people would pursue them at that particular time.
# Posted on September 26th 2009 by nicholas
Re: Noble Purposes
I'm not talking about the specifics, but rather the general philosophy of serving a tradition larger than yourself--rather than using it to make yourself some kind of rock star, or win a p*ssing contest.
I have been lucky enough to meet some of the big names in Irish trad, and they appear to feel lucky to have this music, and are just happy to share it with people. No one is perfect, of course, and there is certainly some bickering behind the scenes--but that's the overall impression I get from the very best, most knowlegeable players. They enjoy this music, and enjoy sharing it. It's bigger than one person's ego.
# Posted on September 26th 2009 by John Galt
Re: Noble Purposes
Sure, and I don't carp at the generous ideals you describe.
# Posted on September 26th 2009 by nicholas
Re: Noble Purposes
Things do get adventurous at times. Nothing wrong with bringing a few provisions. Rain gear, toothbrush, rope, water filter, Jameson's.
# Posted on September 26th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Noble Purposes
Porter - it's meant to be moveable, travellable ( if that's a word, spellcheck doesn't think so ).
Bring some porter too.
# Posted on September 27th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Noble Purposes
All good advice, of course, but this is more what I meant:
------------
To explore and study the reels, jigs, and other tunes of the Irish musical tradition
To provide links to audio and video recordings, and other information about Irish traditional music
To preserve by example, teaching and the encouragement of good session etiquette the beauty of Irish tunes
To make expeditions and provide educational opportunities in fulfillment of the above purposes
To encourage a spirit of good fellowship among all lovers of Irish traditional sessions
--------------------
And no, I don't think there should be a Trad Police to enforce these ideals. I just try to keep them in mind, myself, when I'm tempted to post a negative comment here--obviously, it's a work in progress....
# Posted on September 28th 2009 by John Galt
Re: Noble Purposes
Do unto others
# Posted on September 29th 2009 by mcknowall
Thanks for the opportunity to comment
This is a tough one, Forrest. A good friend is someone who will let you know when there are corn kernels in your teeth. I agree, we need a good dose of civility on our most redundant discussions. Be careful what you ask for, since playing nice (sometimes) means not being honest.
Bottom line ~ controversy is essential to our discussions though no one has the right to yell "FIRE!" in a crowded website.
# Posted on September 29th 2009 by Ben Steen
Correction
- controversy is an essential part on certain topics -
# Posted on September 29th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Noble Purposes
I no fan of rudeness and uncivility, but if we weren't all passionate about This Music we wouldn't be here. Arguments don't happen when nobody cares.
# Posted on September 30th 2009 by fidkid
Re: Noble Purposes
fidkid, I understand what you say about passion. Also, musicians tend to be easily stirred. Having said that, we often have a repetition of past history. {can you say, 'holding grudges'?}
I try to keep the perspective that as long as my session doesn't erupt with the same amount of lava, as smolders on this forum, then the crack (of the universe) is (however enigmatically) grand.
# Posted on September 30th 2009 by Ben Steen
I cannot believe I'm quoting myself
"Also, musicians tend to be easily stirred." ~ especially when factoring in the curmudgeonate constant.
# Posted on September 30th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Noble Purposes
Nicholas, there is something "fishy" about the idea of "carping" at the generous ideals described in this thread.
Forrest Tucker, would you like for us to nominate you for the Nobel Prize? Or is that awarded only to residents of Sweden?
# Posted on October 3rd 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: Noble Purposes
Certainly good goals to aspire to! Nice to see....
# Posted on October 3rd 2009 by AlBrown