I find I'm putting them in where I think they sound nice (and where I can technically handle them - I'm a whistler), but am wondering if there are some "rules" for where a cut, strike, roll etc would/should be inserted. When I listen to any given tune played on a whistle I notice they're all played slightly differently. I'm guessing that's just dandy and no-one's going to raise an eyebrow if I do/don't put in a twiddly bit here or there. Anyone care to comment?
I do believe you've answered your own question Miss Carol. I recently saw one of those hollywood magazines that compares how actresses wear the same designer dress - some get rave reviews as "being stylish" and others are teased because they've made it look frumpy some how. It's the same damn dress, just worn differently. Tunes and twiddly bits are like that.
I found my ornamention improved by copying exactly what I hear in various recordings. whistle solos like Kevin Crawford - Rathlin Island/sporting paddy track 7 The Kinnity Session, is a good example of this. This more you do this with various musicians the more your own ability to ornament just develops. Also, what alot of people neglect when practicing ornaments on the whistle is breathing techniques, sticatto playing or breathing stops on a note. These are somthing I have only developed for myself in the past year and often, the hardest part of your playing to isolate. I know that when I did concentrate on breathing techniques , my playing took on a whole new dimension. Good luck ..
Also download a program to slow down tunes, then you can really hear whats going on.
The twiddly bits are there to help you articulate the tune. They are a large part of your expression of the music. So I would be hesitant to think of "rules", per se. Because that might lead you to putting them in the same spots in the tune every time you play the tune. And even more, it might lead you to articulating different tunes the same way, when the melody of the tune may be suggesting a different expression.
What you're really doing with the twiddly bits is moving time and emphasis around a bit, drawing attention to a strong beat, or changing which beat you're emphasizing (or de-emphasizing). To a large extent, a tune will suggest some obvious placement of ornamentation. But your job should be to use them for expressing musical ideas, not just regurgitating the tune like a machine. If you find that you're always doing a roll here, or cuts there, or triplets in that one spot, then you might want to try freeing yourself up from that notion. Try playing a part and leaving out the ornament, putting it in a different part of the phrase, or using a different ornament.
If you play around with this for a while, you will find that you can build up your vocabulary of different things to do with a sequence of notes, and then you can start doing your expression of a phrase as it's happening, and not as some canned note sequence. That's part of the beauty of this music.
And lastly, the more good music that you listen to, the more of this vocabulary will become natural to you. When you are listening to a great player, don't just let the music wash over you, actively listen for their articulation. And then actively listen to how they change things around to develop continued melodic interest.
When you combine listening to lots of great music with your own experimentation, you'll soon find that you've come up with your own "rules", or guidelines, at least
I think if you listen to enough Trad, after a while you'll just get the urge
to put in a cut or roll or something else here and there. There's no point
trying to force them in as some sort of abstract technical exercise.
You should be able to play cuts, rolls and triplets, or their equivalent, on every note, but obviously you wouldn't ornament every note of a tune. Where you put ornamentation is part of what makes your style, and springs from hours of playing. Reverend has got it: if you find yourself learning the ornamentation as part of the tune, try leaving it out. As soon as you can play the tune, the grace notes will suggest themselves as you come up to them. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Knowing what to leave out is half the battle.
Carol,
As an experiment, try the relatively straightforward reel The Sunny Banks. Find some decent recordings of it in your cd collection [cce recordings have a nice version] and also take a moment to check out some variations on it on the web [youtube]. Perhaps even listen to some BAD versions of it and ask yourself why the so-so vesion is flat, or whatever. Compare to the versions you like [there are several on youtube etc]. Listen for the diff kinds of ornaments...what gets put in...left out...and how. Learn the reel. Learn a bunch of variations on the reel ...it's a great reel for learning just what you're asking.
Unfortunately I have to go to work. so I'll just sneak in a quick link;
'minimalistic treatment'
November 17th 2007 by Henk Bos http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/15829
(the Custy's video w/Yvonne & Eoin is no longer online)
Trucks,
Where do I find a program that slows tunes down?
All you whistlers out there....
Care to recommend any YouTube recordings where you particularly like the whistling? I'm not up to full session speeds yet (at least not to where I can keep playing the twiddly bits) so slower speed stuff would probably be better for me to tune into the twiddly stuff.
Reverend and others,
Thanks for all your comments, advise and inspiration. Much appreciated.
There are lots of threads on here about slow down software. Windows Media Player (PC) and Quicktime Player (Mac) can both do it. There are numerous other pieces of software that can do it, too, the most prevalent of which is probably the Amazing Slow Downer.
But make sure that you're aware that slowing things down changes them. It can be a useful tool when you're first starting out, but eventually, your goal should be to learn how to hear this stuff at speed.
Thanks Reverend. Totally agree. No problem. Just need a quick listen to break things down technically speaking. Then back up to speed to get the musical stuff back in!
Where to play the twiddly bits
Where to play the twiddly bits
I find I'm putting them in where I think they sound nice (and where I can technically handle them - I'm a whistler), but am wondering if there are some "rules" for where a cut, strike, roll etc would/should be inserted. When I listen to any given tune played on a whistle I notice they're all played slightly differently. I'm guessing that's just dandy and no-one's going to raise an eyebrow if I do/don't put in a twiddly bit here or there. Anyone care to comment?
# Posted on September 21st 2009 by CW
Re: Where to play the twiddly bits
I do believe you've answered your own question Miss Carol. I recently saw one of those hollywood magazines that compares how actresses wear the same designer dress - some get rave reviews as "being stylish" and others are teased because they've made it look frumpy some how. It's the same damn dress, just worn differently. Tunes and twiddly bits are like that.
# Posted on September 21st 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Where to play the twiddly bits
I found my ornamention improved by copying exactly what I hear in various recordings. whistle solos like Kevin Crawford - Rathlin Island/sporting paddy track 7 The Kinnity Session, is a good example of this. This more you do this with various musicians the more your own ability to ornament just develops. Also, what alot of people neglect when practicing ornaments on the whistle is breathing techniques, sticatto playing or breathing stops on a note. These are somthing I have only developed for myself in the past year and often, the hardest part of your playing to isolate. I know that when I did concentrate on breathing techniques , my playing took on a whole new dimension. Good luck ..
Also download a program to slow down tunes, then you can really hear whats going on.
# Posted on September 21st 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Where to play the twiddly bits
The twiddly bits are there to help you articulate the tune. They are a large part of your expression of the music. So I would be hesitant to think of "rules", per se. Because that might lead you to putting them in the same spots in the tune every time you play the tune. And even more, it might lead you to articulating different tunes the same way, when the melody of the tune may be suggesting a different expression.
What you're really doing with the twiddly bits is moving time and emphasis around a bit, drawing attention to a strong beat, or changing which beat you're emphasizing (or de-emphasizing). To a large extent, a tune will suggest some obvious placement of ornamentation. But your job should be to use them for expressing musical ideas, not just regurgitating the tune like a machine. If you find that you're always doing a roll here, or cuts there, or triplets in that one spot, then you might want to try freeing yourself up from that notion. Try playing a part and leaving out the ornament, putting it in a different part of the phrase, or using a different ornament.
If you play around with this for a while, you will find that you can build up your vocabulary of different things to do with a sequence of notes, and then you can start doing your expression of a phrase as it's happening, and not as some canned note sequence. That's part of the beauty of this music.
And lastly, the more good music that you listen to, the more of this vocabulary will become natural to you. When you are listening to a great player, don't just let the music wash over you, actively listen for their articulation. And then actively listen to how they change things around to develop continued melodic interest.
When you combine listening to lots of great music with your own experimentation, you'll soon find that you've come up with your own "rules", or guidelines, at least
# Posted on September 22nd 2009 by Reverend
Re: Where to play the twiddly bits
I think if you listen to enough Trad, after a while you'll just get the urge
to put in a cut or roll or something else here and there. There's no point
trying to force them in as some sort of abstract technical exercise.
# Posted on September 22nd 2009 by Hup
Re: Where to play the twiddly bits
Rev's post is excellent advice. Well-nailed, sir!
# Posted on September 22nd 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: Where to play the twiddly bits
You should be able to play cuts, rolls and triplets, or their equivalent, on every note, but obviously you wouldn't ornament every note of a tune. Where you put ornamentation is part of what makes your style, and springs from hours of playing. Reverend has got it: if you find yourself learning the ornamentation as part of the tune, try leaving it out. As soon as you can play the tune, the grace notes will suggest themselves as you come up to them. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Knowing what to leave out is half the battle.
# Posted on September 22nd 2009 by gam
Re: Where to play the twiddly bits
Carol,
As an experiment, try the relatively straightforward reel The Sunny Banks. Find some decent recordings of it in your cd collection [cce recordings have a nice version] and also take a moment to check out some variations on it on the web [youtube]. Perhaps even listen to some BAD versions of it and ask yourself why the so-so vesion is flat, or whatever. Compare to the versions you like [there are several on youtube etc]. Listen for the diff kinds of ornaments...what gets put in...left out...and how. Learn the reel. Learn a bunch of variations on the reel ...it's a great reel for learning just what you're asking.
# Posted on September 22nd 2009 by skin&bow
Re: Where to play the twiddly bits
for example,here's a version of The Sunny Banks where you'd be hard put to find any twiddly bits. But fair game if you do:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSPhYjbxfog
# Posted on September 22nd 2009 by skin&bow
Re: Where to play the twiddly bits
Unfortunately I have to go to work. so I'll just sneak in a quick link;
'minimalistic treatment'
November 17th 2007 by Henk Bos
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/15829
(the Custy's video w/Yvonne & Eoin is no longer online)
# Posted on September 22nd 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Where to play the twiddly bits
tut random, no time for mtodd's cultural experience ?
# Posted on September 22nd 2009 by David50
Re: Where to play the twiddly bits
Trucks,
Where do I find a program that slows tunes down?
All you whistlers out there....
Care to recommend any YouTube recordings where you particularly like the whistling? I'm not up to full session speeds yet (at least not to where I can keep playing the twiddly bits) so slower speed stuff would probably be better for me to tune into the twiddly stuff.
Reverend and others,
Thanks for all your comments, advise and inspiration. Much appreciated.
# Posted on September 24th 2009 by CW
Re: Where to play the twiddly bits
There are lots of threads on here about slow down software. Windows Media Player (PC) and Quicktime Player (Mac) can both do it. There are numerous other pieces of software that can do it, too, the most prevalent of which is probably the Amazing Slow Downer.
But make sure that you're aware that slowing things down changes them. It can be a useful tool when you're first starting out, but eventually, your goal should be to learn how to hear this stuff at speed.
# Posted on September 24th 2009 by Reverend
Re: Where to play the twiddly bits
Thanks Reverend. Totally agree. No problem. Just need a quick listen to break things down technically speaking. Then back up to speed to get the musical stuff back in!
# Posted on September 25th 2009 by CW
Re: Where to play the twiddly bits
> Where do I find a program that slows tunes down?
Windows Media Player will slow a tune down without changing the pitch. Go to
Now Playing > Enhancements > Play Speed Settings
# Posted on September 27th 2009 by SuzThoughts