This post has kind of been inspired by the one about free booze and sessions. Part of the thing about the free booze is that all the players are treated equally (or not) even though some players contribute more. By limiting a session to only people who you want to play, the landlord is happy as he saves on beer, the entertainment shoul be better as you have a firm handle on quality control and the audience is happy as they don't have to listen novices. Oh. and I'm happy to as I get to play the music I love and I don't have to use anymore of my student loan, which I love too.
What I want to know is, does anyone else do closed sessions and what was the situation that led to it?
Not really, 'cause even in the most closed of session, a best mate can turn up out of the blue a sit down and play. It's still a session, without a set list etc.
Yes, thank Christ. It's a session. You have to be able to play to participate in it and you have to be both temperamentally and stylistically compatible with the regular participants.
If you are dedicated to playing in a particular style you've acquired from your musical role models, and AREN'T INTERESTED in imitating the latest and greatest boy racer bands on the festival stages, maybe just maybe you want to consider CLOSING the session and participating only with like minded individuals. It's not snobbery. It's deciding to do things a certain way that feels right to the group as a whole.
Considerations of being entertaining may be of interest of professionals and extroverts but to others, it's about the tunes and camaraderie with those who love the music. You have to respect that, no matter how boring you think such an "introverted" session is. It's not for anyone but the participants to judge. You can say what you like about landlords and beer and entertaining punters but a happy cohesive session that is playing the same tunes in the same style with the same timing and with good intonation is going to mitigate that to a great extent.
If you get a bunch of individualists who don't listen to one another and don't like each others' tunes, then there's very little point.
There are many reasons to close a session, perhaps the venue can only support seating for a small number of players, or perhaps there are some problematic players in town that necessitate such an action. There's also the semi-closed session with limited seating, where there is a list of players who are welcome to come play, but are encouraged to not come every week to give the others a chance to have a seat.
Sometimes it can work the other way. One generous owner not only gives us free beer, he even gives each of us a meal! So even though it's not a formal requirement, we try to keep our session sounding reasonably decent... which led us to regretfully disinvite a player who is a nice person, but more than a little bit "rhythmically challenged."
I mean, what else could we do? Tell the owner, "Keep your beer and shepherd's pie, we're going to sound like sh*te if we feel like it"?
With all due respect, Random Notes, what I' m describing is not a band; it may share some characteristics of a formal band performance, but key elements that distinguish a band from a session are missing. A cohesive session group that plays well together does not have a name, and does not rehearse together. With very few exceptions, they do not seek to make recordings as a group. They generally are not seeking formal paid gigs outside of sessions, but they wouldn't pass up a generous offer. Some members may be full-time professional musicians, but that is not a prerequisite for participation. Overall, the group' s level of experience is quite high. The group is not playing strictly for the amusement of the patrons; they play for each other and encourage each other. Such a group is NOT a band.
If you want to participate fully in such a sessiion, the responsibility is on would-be participants to bring something to the table. Sorry to be harsh but this is the truth.
as a rhthymically (and spelling) challenged rusty player, this is how newbies improve by playing along quietly when they can , watching and learning when they cant. The session, closed or otherwise is where new musicians become 'professional' or proficient musos. but the shepherd pie is a problem you dont want to lose the pie!
Maybe have a 'slow' beginners session earlier or elsewhere...
slainte!
Maybe they have a place in the greater scheme of things but like annie above, surely they should be seen as the unfortunate exception rather than the ideal.
To take it too the extreme, if all sessions were closed like that - the session scene would simply die out due to lack of regeneration.
seekannie--unfortunately, "playing along quietly" wasn't the case. The playing was loud, it was often way out of synch, and it was driving us crazy--the pie issue was just a contributing factor. And a couple of the regulars are working with the player in question, on their own time, in hopes of a triumphant return to the fold.
Bands are an economic contrivance to turn music in to cash, or beer. If this is what is happening, then it is a band, all the rest is just flim flam and marketing. I'm not there so I can't judge.
The closed session as described above by Seosamh IS INDEED snobbery. It doesn't describe any kind of session I've ever been involved in, or would want to be involved in.
If one does want to involve oneself in such an elitist gathering then it should be done in the privacy of a private dwelling and not a PUBLIC house.
What is there to be afraid of ? That someone might not play as fantastically as you?
Sometimes, you want to go out with your mates to the pub, have a few drinks and good old chin wag. And not want to have strangers come over and join your conversation. A closed session is the same. Is that snobbery?
If you'd like to get to know them first and join their conversation, then great.
if you barge in, sit down at their table and start blathering on about the latest football scores when they're in the middle of discussing late 19th century French poetry, well...
This is what that's like. People think 'open session' and what happens is that they barge in and start blathering on and on without regards to the situation.
We have an open session, however, if you are unable to play at our level, or unwilling to play what we're playing, you're going to be doing a lot of sitting around. We will greet and welcome you, and if you've sat for a while we'll ask you to play something. Failte. If you're obviously a decent player, and have been playing along when we chuck in the old tired chestnuts, what's the big deal? There isn't one. We'll have a good time.
Want to come back every week and be part of the gang? Great. We love it. Stick around and our tunes we'll stick to you, you teach us yours, we'll have a grand time. We don't bite.
Still playing that one tune at half speed after a few weeks? We'll pat you on the head and smile while we carry on.
Is there something else you're looking for?
What do people expect, to be able to walk into any session they want and have it stop, just for them? "Oh, so glad you're here, please, let us stop everything we're doing and have you play for us."
I have two sessions every week, one in the pub and one in my kitchen. In the kitchen we’ll go real slow if you like, we fart around, etc.
When it’s session time, it’s different. It’s not “SHOWTIME!” but it’s a big deal for us. We all work for a living and we love this music. We work hard to play it well because we love it. This is our big night out during the week with our close friends.
It’s our prerogative what we do with our session, and the publican’s, obviously. He doesn't want amateur night and neither do we.
If there was never any problem with etiquette, none of this would be an issue and it'd never have to be spelled out.
However, there's lots of problems with etiquette, obviously, which is why people in places with loads of musicians around have to close their sessions.
This is all pretty obvious stuff, just re-hash. Some warmed up leftovers for those that missed it one of the other ten million times it’s been discussed on here.
& when a stranger does come over . . . let's say a group of guys are having a conversation about French poetry & young woman, who just flew in to town, asks."Does anyone know who won tonights' game?"
Obviously one would have to answer, "We're not interested in sports. However, if you like French poetry you're welcome to join us. But just for one drink." Where is the harm in that, Or is it really that private of a conversation?
How closed is closed ~ seems it is being used ambiguously.
"We're not interested in sports. We're playing tunes we've played together for years. We each know each others' way of playing them intimately and just for this evening, we'd like to just play together. Thanks."
Closed sessions and free beer?
Closed sessions and free beer?
This post has kind of been inspired by the one about free booze and sessions. Part of the thing about the free booze is that all the players are treated equally (or not) even though some players contribute more. By limiting a session to only people who you want to play, the landlord is happy as he saves on beer, the entertainment shoul be better as you have a firm handle on quality control and the audience is happy as they don't have to listen novices. Oh. and I'm happy to as I get to play the music I love and I don't have to use anymore of my student loan, which I love too.
What I want to know is, does anyone else do closed sessions and what was the situation that led to it?
# Posted on September 6th 2009 by Clashma
Re: Closed sessions and free beer?
Isn't this a gig which the band is not getting for performing?
# Posted on September 6th 2009 by Ben Steen
. . . not getting paid for . .
# Posted on September 6th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Closed sessions and free beer?
Not really, 'cause even in the most closed of session, a best mate can turn up out of the blue a sit down and play. It's still a session, without a set list etc.
# Posted on September 6th 2009 by ...
Re: Closed sessions and free beer?
O.K. ~ so, there is no set list. fair play.
# Posted on September 6th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Closed sessions and free beer?
Yes, thank Christ. It's a session. You have to be able to play to participate in it and you have to be both temperamentally and stylistically compatible with the regular participants.
If you are dedicated to playing in a particular style you've acquired from your musical role models, and AREN'T INTERESTED in imitating the latest and greatest boy racer bands on the festival stages, maybe just maybe you want to consider CLOSING the session and participating only with like minded individuals. It's not snobbery. It's deciding to do things a certain way that feels right to the group as a whole.
Considerations of being entertaining may be of interest of professionals and extroverts but to others, it's about the tunes and camaraderie with those who love the music. You have to respect that, no matter how boring you think such an "introverted" session is. It's not for anyone but the participants to judge. You can say what you like about landlords and beer and entertaining punters but a happy cohesive session that is playing the same tunes in the same style with the same timing and with good intonation is going to mitigate that to a great extent.
If you get a bunch of individualists who don't listen to one another and don't like each others' tunes, then there's very little point.
# Posted on September 6th 2009 by Seosamh Ui Sinan
Re: Closed sessions and free beer?
here here
# Posted on September 6th 2009 by ...
Re: Closed sessions and free beer?
There are many reasons to close a session, perhaps the venue can only support seating for a small number of players, or perhaps there are some problematic players in town that necessitate such an action. There's also the semi-closed session with limited seating, where there is a list of players who are welcome to come play, but are encouraged to not come every week to give the others a chance to have a seat.
# Posted on September 6th 2009 by Michael Eskin
Re: Closed sessions and free beer?
Once again, Seosamh Ui Sinan, that's a band ~ always the same tunes, all the same style.
# Posted on September 6th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Closed sessions and free beer?
Sometimes it can work the other way. One generous owner not only gives us free beer, he even gives each of us a meal! So even though it's not a formal requirement, we try to keep our session sounding reasonably decent... which led us to regretfully disinvite a player who is a nice person, but more than a little bit "rhythmically challenged."
I mean, what else could we do? Tell the owner, "Keep your beer and shepherd's pie, we're going to sound like sh*te if we feel like it"?
# Posted on September 6th 2009 by John Galt
Re: Closed sessions and free beer?
It is a good thing too. You let your mates know, up front, they have to know what they are doing & sound good for the session.
# Posted on September 6th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Closed sessions and free beer?
With all due respect, Random Notes, what I' m describing is not a band; it may share some characteristics of a formal band performance, but key elements that distinguish a band from a session are missing. A cohesive session group that plays well together does not have a name, and does not rehearse together. With very few exceptions, they do not seek to make recordings as a group. They generally are not seeking formal paid gigs outside of sessions, but they wouldn't pass up a generous offer. Some members may be full-time professional musicians, but that is not a prerequisite for participation. Overall, the group' s level of experience is quite high. The group is not playing strictly for the amusement of the patrons; they play for each other and encourage each other. Such a group is NOT a band.
If you want to participate fully in such a sessiion, the responsibility is on would-be participants to bring something to the table. Sorry to be harsh but this is the truth.
# Posted on September 7th 2009 by Seosamh Ui Sinan
Re: Closed sessions and free beer?
With all due respect, ~ you are taking this a bit hard.
The description is mostly about what a session is not.
True enough though. Cheers.
# Posted on September 7th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Closed sessions and free beer?
It's a disadvantage to have full time professional musicians as members of such a session. They're never bloody there.
# Posted on September 7th 2009 by ...
Re: Closed sessions and free beer?
as a rhthymically (and spelling) challenged rusty player, this is how newbies improve by playing along quietly when they can , watching and learning when they cant. The session, closed or otherwise is where new musicians become 'professional' or proficient musos. but the shepherd pie is a problem you dont want to lose the pie!
Maybe have a 'slow' beginners session earlier or elsewhere...
slainte!
# Posted on September 7th 2009 by seekannie
Re: Closed sessions and free beer?
At least you live in a place where the law allows the pub owner and/or bartender to give you free beer.
# Posted on September 7th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: Closed sessions and free beer?
Maybe they have a place in the greater scheme of things but like annie above, surely they should be seen as the unfortunate exception rather than the ideal.
To take it too the extreme, if all sessions were closed like that - the session scene would simply die out due to lack of regeneration.
# Posted on September 7th 2009 by the wounded hussar
Re: Closed sessions and free beer?
seekannie--unfortunately, "playing along quietly" wasn't the case. The playing was loud, it was often way out of synch, and it was driving us crazy--the pie issue was just a contributing factor. And a couple of the regulars are working with the player in question, on their own time, in hopes of a triumphant return to the fold.
# Posted on September 7th 2009 by John Galt
Re: Closed sessions and free beer?
Bands are an economic contrivance to turn music in to cash, or beer. If this is what is happening, then it is a band, all the rest is just flim flam and marketing. I'm not there so I can't judge.
# Posted on September 8th 2009 by toumi
Re: Closed sessions and free beer?
The closed session as described above by Seosamh IS INDEED snobbery. It doesn't describe any kind of session I've ever been involved in, or would want to be involved in.
If one does want to involve oneself in such an elitist gathering then it should be done in the privacy of a private dwelling and not a PUBLIC house.
What is there to be afraid of ? That someone might not play as fantastically as you?
# Posted on September 8th 2009 by Dennis Regan
Re: Closed sessions and free beer?
Sometimes, you want to go out with your mates to the pub, have a few drinks and good old chin wag. And not want to have strangers come over and join your conversation. A closed session is the same. Is that snobbery?
# Posted on September 8th 2009 by ...
Re: Closed sessions and free beer?
Of course not.
It is a very poor analogy though, for obvious reasons.
# Posted on September 8th 2009 by Dennis Regan
Re: Closed sessions and free beer?
No, it's not.
If you'd like to get to know them first and join their conversation, then great.
if you barge in, sit down at their table and start blathering on about the latest football scores when they're in the middle of discussing late 19th century French poetry, well...
This is what that's like. People think 'open session' and what happens is that they barge in and start blathering on and on without regards to the situation.
We have an open session, however, if you are unable to play at our level, or unwilling to play what we're playing, you're going to be doing a lot of sitting around. We will greet and welcome you, and if you've sat for a while we'll ask you to play something. Failte. If you're obviously a decent player, and have been playing along when we chuck in the old tired chestnuts, what's the big deal? There isn't one. We'll have a good time.
Want to come back every week and be part of the gang? Great. We love it. Stick around and our tunes we'll stick to you, you teach us yours, we'll have a grand time. We don't bite.
Still playing that one tune at half speed after a few weeks? We'll pat you on the head and smile while we carry on.
Is there something else you're looking for?
What do people expect, to be able to walk into any session they want and have it stop, just for them? "Oh, so glad you're here, please, let us stop everything we're doing and have you play for us."
I have two sessions every week, one in the pub and one in my kitchen. In the kitchen we’ll go real slow if you like, we fart around, etc.
When it’s session time, it’s different. It’s not “SHOWTIME!” but it’s a big deal for us. We all work for a living and we love this music. We work hard to play it well because we love it. This is our big night out during the week with our close friends.
It’s our prerogative what we do with our session, and the publican’s, obviously. He doesn't want amateur night and neither do we.
If there was never any problem with etiquette, none of this would be an issue and it'd never have to be spelled out.
However, there's lots of problems with etiquette, obviously, which is why people in places with loads of musicians around have to close their sessions.
This is all pretty obvious stuff, just re-hash. Some warmed up leftovers for those that missed it one of the other ten million times it’s been discussed on here.
# Posted on September 8th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Closed sessions and free beer?
& when a stranger does come over . . . let's say a group of guys are having a conversation about French poetry & young woman, who just flew in to town, asks."Does anyone know who won tonights' game?"
Obviously one would have to answer, "We're not interested in sports. However, if you like French poetry you're welcome to join us. But just for one drink." Where is the harm in that, Or is it really that private of a conversation?
How closed is closed ~ seems it is being used ambiguously.
# Posted on September 8th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Closed sessions and free beer?
"Does anyone know who won tonights' game?"
"We're not interested in sports. We're playing tunes we've played together for years. We each know each others' way of playing them intimately and just for this evening, we'd like to just play together. Thanks."
# Posted on September 8th 2009 by ...
~
exactly ;)
# Posted on September 8th 2009 by Ben Steen
. . .
it is never, 'just 1 drink.'
# Posted on September 8th 2009 by Ben Steen