Comments

Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

I'm just wondering if anyone else in here likes playing any of the Early Irish Music & finds themselves regularly wrestling with a Rackett, grappling with a Gurdy, squirming with a Shawm or carousing with a Crumhorn?

Or perhaps you just like playing those ancient tunes on your regular instruments?

Either way, you might like to join me, over on the Early Music Cafe!

http://medievalandrenaissancemusic.ning.com/

With your help, this new site will hopefully grow into an interesting place for Early Music enthusiasts to share Photos, MP3s & Videos of their Early Music experiences.

Cheers
Dick

# Posted on August 31st 2009 by Ptarmigan

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

By the way, do you think it is OK to play ancient music on modern instruments, as they do with the older classical music after all, or do you reckon all that old stuff should only be played on instruments of the period, like on Wire Strung Harps instead of these nylon strung imposters? ;-)

# Posted on August 31st 2009 by Ptarmigan

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

I usually wait till at least mid afternoon

# Posted on August 31st 2009 by ...

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

And I remember when Alfred Brendel was asked, "Why don't you play your Mozart on the instrument it was composed for?", he replied with typical directness and clarity of thought, "It sounds better on a modern piano."

# Posted on August 31st 2009 by ...

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

Ahhh .... too early for you Llig!

This'll wake you up then:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dD7PrvRp5k

If not, this certainly will:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuT2WzR-YgA&feature=related

Cheers
Dick

# Posted on August 31st 2009 by Ptarmigan

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

Me, I do.
I much prefer listening to Harpsichord music played on the HC and not the Piano!

I like the pandiro!

But tell me PT, can you point out a site with some good early tunes on? or where I might get some? The stuff Ive been playing is mostly Baroque... not early enough eh! I do have one medieval tune and of course there is old stuff within the trad repertoire that I would play.

# Posted on August 31st 2009 by piobagusfidil

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

TheSession has at least one example of Early Music: http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/9805

# Posted on August 31st 2009 by Trevor Jennings

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

Whether or not you play Early Music on modern instruments, is period costume de rigeur? (As it appears to be on http://medievalandrenaissancemusic.ning.com/)

# Posted on August 31st 2009 by Trevor Jennings

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

Just as you wouldn't wear a suit in bed or your pyjamas to a wedding, there are times, like at a Medieval Joust or Fair or on a film set, when a costume is the order of the day.
Nothing strange in that.

When I'm playing these tunes down the pub though, I dress like I always do ... scruffy & casual.

Cheers
Dick

# Posted on August 31st 2009 by Ptarmigan

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

I love Early Musick. I’ve wanted a krummhorm since I first heard them some forty years ago, but it’s not a great solo instrument, so I’ve resisted the urge. If I knew two or three other similarly afflicted individuals interested in an ensemble, I’d go for it. I’ve played several early lute and vihuela tunes on guitar. Can’t justify maintaining a lute.

It’s perfectly okay to play any music on any instrument. In theory. It might work, or not. Listeners might like it, or not. I’m glad that we have the “original instrument” movement alongside the resolute modernists. I love Bach keyboard music on the modern piano. I might even prefer it to the harpsichord for the solo works, though not always. But substituting piano for harpsichord in a baroque chamber orchestra just sounds odd and distracting to me.

My appreciation for Mozart increased greatly after hearing some performances on “original instruments.” If Wolfie had had our modern instruments available to him, he would certainly have used them, but I believe he would have used them a bit differently from the original instruments.

# Posted on August 31st 2009 by Bob himself

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

Iv'e been told that Mozart's violin music is more accessible to the modern player if they use a bow design of Mozart's day (known as the "transitional" bow because it lies between the baroque bow and today's Tourte design). Some orchestras use them today.

# Posted on August 31st 2009 by Trevor Jennings

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

I think the keyboard music of William Byrd (1540-1623) and his contemporaries sounds better on a harpsichord than it does on a modern piano. I feel the same way about the keyboard music of Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757).

# Posted on August 31st 2009 by fauxcelt

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

I'm with you there, fauxcelt. Though my current favorite renditions of D. Scarlatti are played by duo classical guitar - the Assad brothers. Wonderful stuff. Actually, my favorite medium for Bach concertos is guitar quartet.

# Posted on August 31st 2009 by Bob himself

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

Wifie and I had the sublime pleasure of attending a recital by Rosalyn Tureck when she was still in her prime. She had a piano and a harpsichord on the stage and effortlessly switched between the two several times during the evening. I don’t know how she decided which to play, but it always seemed somehow appropriate. One of my top ten favorite performances.

# Posted on August 31st 2009 by Bob himself

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

Dick, I was looking at Edward Bunting's manuscripts on the site.
I don't know if you have seen (or are interested in) the Clan Cameron archives. They are here;
http://www.clan-cameron.org/archives.html

# Posted on August 31st 2009 by Ben Steen

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?


Bach and Scarlatti... :-)

Well now bob, are you a guitarist by any chance ;-)

I will check out William Byrd. Im pretty clueless about this kind of music. I know what I like however .

# Posted on August 31st 2009 by piobagusfidil

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

I enjoy performing Early Music- but I will not wear a codpiece no matter how much the gig pays. :)

# Posted on August 31st 2009 by Greg the Piano Tuner

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

Excellent Random, thanks, that's just the kind of thing I was hoping members will come up with. After all, this site is certainly not a Fait accompli, but rather a case of work in progress ... in fact it is more like work only commenced!

In time, I'm hoping the members themselves will manage to create a helpful resource for themselves.

Cheers
Dick

# Posted on August 31st 2009 by Ptarmigan

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?


Of course if its a modern piano is tuned to EQ then it wont sound like it did pre 1917 when pianos were rarely if ever tuned to EQ. After all the best tuners Britain had to offer in 1885 were actually tuning to a system resembling the 18th well temperaments, even though they presumably thought they were using EQ.

Faux , do modern harpsichord players use a Well temperament?

# Posted on August 31st 2009 by piobagusfidil

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

“Well now bob, are you a guitarist by any chance”

Used to be. Mostly worthless now. Or is that the same thing?

# Posted on August 31st 2009 by Bob himself

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

Gurdy music to me seems to express the discomfort of one or more large stomachs that have taken on board more dodgy king prawn vindaloo than was wise.

# Posted on August 31st 2009 by nicholas

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

I still have various German recorders (with renaissance bore) laying around my studio, but don't play them much anymore.

I do enjoy the idea of combining early music/instruments and occasionally listen to old prog bands with this combination i.e.
Gryphon & Gentle Giant. Both of which have done reunion concerts very recently. Also Piers Adams/Red Priest and touch of Amazing Blondel. I don't find it "twee" at all. One shouldn't let music threaten their masculine psyche, which I find to be absurd.

# Posted on August 31st 2009 by Lint - upon - Tweed

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?


Come on bob,dont put yourself down! priceless not worthless!

Never heard of any of them japhy...im off to you tube for a look.

Whats gurdy music nicholas? you dont mean hurdy gurdy do you? I love blowzabella.

# Posted on August 31st 2009 by piobagusfidil

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

Yes, I do think Blowzabella are fine. But I couldn't listen to them for great lengths of time. It would be the equivalent of eating lobsters and christmas pudding with tumblers of port for hours / days on end; just a bit too *rich*, if you see what I mean!

# Posted on August 31st 2009 by nicholas

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

I agree.
I mostly listen to solos and duets . but I have phases of this and that. At the moment we are working on some bach 2 part inventions for 2 fiddles so Ive had the cd of them played harpsichord going on over and over!

There is a time and place for every sort of music eh?

# Posted on August 31st 2009 by piobagusfidil

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

Harpsichords are for sissies, give me Bach on an enormous pipe organ please.

# Posted on September 1st 2009 by Marklar

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

Let me guess Marklar ...... are you American? :-D

# Posted on September 1st 2009 by Ptarmigan

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

American?

I'd say he's a demented loudmouth.

# Posted on September 1st 2009 by showaddydadito

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

Does 'Lark in the Morning' count?

(I'll get my coat!)

# Posted on September 1st 2009 by domhnall.

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

Depends on how early you play it domnull!

# Posted on September 1st 2009 by piobagusfidil

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

.....or that old Shetland tune 'Da day dawn' - is that early enough for you?

# Posted on September 1st 2009 by domhnall.

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

The worst Early Music would be Reveille on the bugle.

# Posted on September 1st 2009 by Bob himself

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

"Daylight come and me wanna go home." Day-O (The Banana Boat Song)

# Posted on September 1st 2009 by Trevor Jennings

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

How early is early? Does late Baroque count? Many tunes that we still play (though some folks like them less than others) got their start at the tail end of the Baroque era. Tourlough (sp?) O'Carolan was composing in the 1600s, yes? Soldier's Joy, Harvest Home, Mason's Apron, Smash the Windows to name only a few all date back at least to the 1770s/80s.

I wonder how far back they really go? How old are our oldest traditional tunes, and do they count as "early music?"

# Posted on September 1st 2009 by Jeff Berndt

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

For reference, here are the main chronological divisions of Western music according to the musicologists:

Ancient <0 - 476
Mediaeval 476 - 1400
Renaissance/Early Music 1400 - 1600
Baroque 1600 - 1750
Classical 1750 - 1820
Romantic 1820 - 1910
Early 20th Century 1900 - 1945
Modern 1945 - Present

There is naturally some overlap between the periods.

# Posted on September 1st 2009 by Trevor Jennings

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

“How early is early? Does late Baroque count?”

I’ve always taken Early Music to mean pre-Baroque, but I’ve recently heard the term used to include Mozart, which makes it pretty much useless as a category.

I didn’t know Soldier’s Joy was that old. Are there dots for it from that far back?

# Posted on September 1st 2009 by Bob himself

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

I believe the significance of 476 as the start of the Mediaeval Period is that 476 AD marked the end of the Western Roman Empire, and is generally accepted as the start of the Middle Ages.

# Posted on September 1st 2009 by Trevor Jennings

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

if you really want to talk about music history, the 8th century is some of the earliest written examples of church music we have. At least that's where they started the Medieval Music history course I had to take at college

476 was the date Rome got sacked for the last time, but that isn't the "generally accepted" beginning of the medieval period. What happened to the Dark Ages? Those were some good times!

and like Bob, I've not heard the phrase "early music" used to describe baroque or classical music

people just say its baroque or say its classical

I suspect the Internet and the 20 somethings have conspired to rewrite all the definitions to comply with the answers they gave on their music history finals last semester

# Posted on September 1st 2009 by Nate Ryan

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

Marklar, if harpsichords are for Sithies, does that mean Darth Vader (who was a Dark Lord of the Sith) could play a harpsichord? On second thought, though, since Darth Vader was so Force-full, an enormous pipe organ might be more appropriate for him.

Yes, Bob Himself, I have heard the keyboard music of Domenico Scarlatti played on guitar many times and I have enjoyed it. Supposedly, when he was composing the 550 or so keyboard sonatas for which he is now famous (or infamous), Scarlatti was influenced by the guitar music which he heard around him in first Portugal and then Spain where he had gone to find work as a court musician.

Ionannas, I am not sure what type of tuning system modern harpsichordsists use, but I could ask the harpsichord instructor at the local college where I took harpsichord lessons when I was a music major there.

# Posted on September 1st 2009 by fauxcelt

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

I think "Dark Ages" is disliked as a term by those who have devoted themselves to the study of the early Mediaeval period, as they'd rather call it.

This is because:

(1.) They have found it to be a beacon of admirable examples and civilised values,

and / or:

(2.) Because it's psychologically almost impossible for people to see what they applied themselves to in their twenties as a load of pointless rubbish - it has become part of their identity, and they have to defend it, whether it was doing a postgrad in early Mediaeval studies, working in a horrible country, fighting a war or whatever.

My own take on the Dark Ages / Early Med is more towards (1.) - but then, I did an MA in it, and am accordingly psychologically incapable of dissing it...

# Posted on September 1st 2009 by nicholas

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

Well, it was certainly the Dark Ages from the Roman point of view :)

# Posted on September 2nd 2009 by Marklar

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

NO.

# Posted on September 2nd 2009 by Toppish

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

I didn't read the whole thread... but, yeah, i like to play early music! I also got a knack for renaissance fairs and live action role playings and the music that goes with it. So i love to wear period or "fantasy period" costume. I also think the connection between folk music as played today and early music an extremly interesting topic - something i'd love to study in-depth at some time....
What i don't have is an early music instrument, lack of money and time to acquire and learn one. It's really a dilemma for me, i love the sound of the gamba (bass), nyckelharpa, medieval fiddle and the hurdy gurdy. On the other hand, there is some truth in the quote Ilig has written here (and in the discussion on Jordi Savall before). Many of the musicians jumping around the renaissance faires are not ashamed to play a gurdy or bagpipe model which has an "old" touch to it but has been developed for modern players needs (going as far as installing pick-ups on them) - nobody cares, it can contribute to the music in a positive way (if used sensibly), but still you stick out with a "modern" fiddle... my approach is to play this "old" music on my 5string viola which gives everything a "darker" and maybe a little muffled sound and also practically invites me to play drones and double strings and stuff, and try to imitate the sound and effects produced by the bowing technique of old instruments. Shortly, to play the viola as if it was a hurdy gurdy or nyckelharpa. I'm quite happy doing this the only setback is that no band in that area seems to be waiting for me, there looking for the either more "authentic" or at least more "visually attractive" "real thing" :-)

# Posted on September 2nd 2009 by Mina the Fiddler

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

Although I do enjoy playing Renaissance keyboard music, I don't enjoy Renaissance fairs or live action role playing. Besides, my electronic keyboard isn't an authentic or "period" isntrument which means that I couldn't bring it and play it anyway.

# Posted on September 2nd 2009 by fauxcelt

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

I can't see Darth Vader as having an enormous organ. It's well known that galactic domination is a compensatory activity.

# Posted on September 2nd 2009 by showaddydadito

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

Thank you for the psychological analysis of Darth Vader's psyche, Dr. Showaddydadito.

# Posted on September 2nd 2009 by fauxcelt

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

well so is live action role playing, showaddydadito, but you can still bring a fiddle along :-)

# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by Mina the Fiddler

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

by the way the Dark Ages is a term i've only ever heard used from british people. Maybe the times were particularly murky over there? Around here we prefer "Völkerwanderung" - nice images of hordes of Celtic and other barbarians spreading all over Europe :-)

# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by Mina the Fiddler

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

What type of knife did they use to spread those Celtic and other barbarians all over the bread of Europe?

# Posted on September 4th 2009 by fauxcelt

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

Hey Fauxcelt, if you really want to fit in, get yourself one of these:

http://thescholarsgarret.com/portative/

Good luck in your quest Mina.

# Posted on September 5th 2009 by Ptarmigan

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

Thank you for the link, Ptarmigan.

# Posted on September 7th 2009 by fauxcelt

Re: Anyone else in here like playing Early Music?

But I still refuse to dress up in period style clothes.

# Posted on September 7th 2009 by fauxcelt

Not a member yet? Sign up!

forgotten your password?

Frequently Asked Questions

Enter your email address to have your password sent to you.