Actually playing tunes while driving a car. I don't mean air fiddle. Thought I was the only one that did such a foolish thing until I started asking around!
Do you mean like when waiting at the traffic lights, or when going 50 km/h? either way, I don't have an instrument lying around in the car, but I would only do it in the first case.
I think most whistle players are guilty of this, myself included. Usually only play while stopped, but playing during long straight drives in the middle lane with no traffic around is not out of the question either. Have learned alot of tunes during daily commutes.
I actually recall a fairly funny t-shirt design or something that somebody posted during a discussion several years ago about this same topic (I think that's where I saw it). If I recall correctly, it was a drawing in the style of the Book of Kells with a man with his knee on the steering wheel and playing the whistle with a big X through it. Worth seeing if anyone has the link to it.
I never play while the car is moving, mostly because it's probably not a good idea (explain that one to the cops, or your insurance company) and also, I can't reach my steering wheel with my knees.
Not that I condone playing didgeridoo in general, but I remember years back where a friend of mine made a custom didge out of PVC pipe with elbows put in so he could play it in the car!
I used to keep a whistle in the car, when I often drove alone. Now that I'm rarely in the car without passengers, I leave the hoodlie stick at home.
I'm curious if anyone has ever played music with others in the car, and if so, were they also musicians, and also playing? Sort of a mobile session? I think that'd be a great way to do a road trip, as long as the designated driver abstained from playing. Alas, I've never taken a long road trip with enough trad musicians to make it feasible.
Some of us have enough trouble playing while stationary and not in a vehicle, but then I've also not quite mastered walking while talking into a mobile phone.
Is this some kind of sick joke? Do you really think it's Ok to play a whistle when you're driving? Stationary or moving? Why not crack open a few beers or a bottle of whisky while you're at it?
I sometimes practice picking triplets with my right hand, its a kind of one handed air guitar/banjo. It could be misconstrued as something far more embarrassing!
We had a plumber once who used to practice the penny whistle in his van at traffic lights. His other trick was riding a unicycle while installing a central heating system.
I play whistle ALL the time when driving and have so for a decade. I had a job that took me from just below NYC to Washington DC and everything in between. And that gave me lots of practice time so when I got home I had plenty of time to devote to children.
I burned through a company car every year and a half and had only one accident. It wasn't my fault. I was hit by a prominent judges wife. She had poodles in the car and was more worried about them than me!
If I coud figure ouyt how to do it with the damn concertina I would!
My only fear was at traffic stops. My whistle's black and I always warned police as soon as they got near that I have a tin whistle between the seats, lest it be mistaken, at a glance, for a gun.....unarmed people have died for less....
I've tried the Horn Concerto a few time when driving but never between the hours of 23.00 hrs and 07.00hrs in a build up area, and never whilst stationary. I've also used discretion when outside hospitals.
''Played all the way from London to Barnsley in a Transit minibus on the way to Barnsley Folk Festival, back in about '76.
Cathy Cook was sitting next to me and had to wind down the window for her fiddle-bow ! OOPS, no, must have been '86, '96 maybe !''
I'm glad to say the driver wasn't playing, but I think most of the others on the bus were.
Shanty if you are serious about playing while actually driving then I find it frankly appalling. No better than texting.
You can continue to say you haven't cuased any accidents by having your attention divided right up until the day that you kill or main someone. It still makes you as guilty of playing lose with other peoples lives and health as if you'd fired a gun willy nilly into an area where there were "unlikely" to be bystanders.
Drivers often forget that they are in charge of a machine that could easy be considered a weapon.
I don't try to play music while driving because it is somewhat difficult to play a piano and/or a string bass while driving.
Also, whenever someone mentions a mobile phone (yes I know that is another term for a cell phone), I think of an image of a telephone with a pair of legs attached to it so it can walk and follow you around while you are talking into it. Either that, or a pair of wheels on it like that garbage can robot (R2D2) from the Star Wars movies.
Herself gets a tad upset if I play my box while driving. While she may appreciate the finer points of reed instruments, with the American preference for thumping hip hop and waily girl country pop singers in clothes four sizes too small, She claims accordion distracts the other drivers!
...and at university I knew a horn player who used to practise in the lift in a 13-floor tower block. She used to reckon at least it shared out the disturbance equally between everyone.
In a car with open windows, I suppose you'd get interesting doppler effects, but a lift doesn't move quickly enough for that.
Practicing at traffic lights...isn't that what red lights are there for? Actually helps me focus on the light, otherwise my mind would be wandering. I've sat (blush) through a green light a few times in the past, but never when I'm playing my whistle. Unlike a cigarette or cell phone, I can quickly tuck the whistle under the console next to me when the light changes. Others in the car? My dear 14 y/o son for whom the following was designed: http://www.cafepress.com/ITMGoodies/6234306
'My mum plays diddley shxxe
Endlessly
Even when she's driving
Does anyone have a phone? I need to call an ambulance. She caused an accident at the lights. I think someone is dead.'
Hilarious isn't it? I laughed all the way to hospital/mortuary.
Yes Joel, you've missed the thrill of speeding through Baltimore drunk on jigs and reels. It's a clear October night. 1995 or so... Hunter S Thompson is still living. You're in a rusted '76 Buick Century.Cream colored. Uglier than sin. No seatbelt or air bag. It's been a good night. The moon is full. You're on Pratt street by the harbor playing Scarce O' Tatties. Traffic is moving but now you come to a light. You practice some deep bends on high 'b' from a slow air you learned from an Altan CD you got in a Kmart discout bin for 2.75. The light changes and you're soon on I-83. You hit the interstate, speed up and roll into the Roscommon reel. The city races by, the wind is lashing you hair. Life is good.
I'm guilty of "knee driving", but at least I use a fresh whistle, that doesn't stink of whiskey, beer, and tobacco! (when other whistlers complain about the "flavors" of my whistles while playing them.. I just tell them its a special "antiseptic" I use....)
I got hit by a car whose driver (female) was wearing a skirt. Damn skirts. She almost killed me.
I play almost 100% of the time I am driving. I have a perfect driving record. In fact, I DRIVE BETTER WHEN I AM PLAYING. I am more watchful (looking for cops) and more patient ("go ahead senior citizen and take your time. I am in the middle of a complex b part"). I play with passengers, too. They are a bit more concerned, but it is better for them then second hand smoke.
I have a great stealth black whistle. Great at night returning from the pub. but really, would a constable even suspect what I was doing??
Yes Joel, you've missed the thrill of speeding through Baltimore drunk on jigs and reels. It's a clear October night. 1995 or so... Hunter S Thompson is still living. You're in a rusted '76 Buick Century.Cream colored. Uglier than sin. No seatbelt or air bag. It's been a good night. The moon is full. You're on Pratt street by the harbor playing Scarce O' Tatties. Traffic is moving but now you come to a light. You practice some deep bends on high 'b' from a slow air you learned from an Altan CD you got in a Kmart discout bin for 2.75. The light changes and you're soon on I-83. You hit the interstate, speed up and roll into the Roscommon reel. The city races by, the wind is lashing you hair. Life is good. A small child steps into the road. You're concentrating on the whistle. The chid goes over the bonnet. The whistle goes through your throat. The child is dead. You are dead. Life is good eh?
Nope. You worry too much. Accidents happen all the time. Most of them, perhaps none of them involve whistles. Drunk drivers are by far a bigger concern. Phones. Playing with the radio buttons. Changing CDs. Poorly maintained vehicles. Fluffy dice. Speeders.
Whistles are harmless. They help me, as pointed out above, drive safely.
'Whistles are harmless. They help me, as pointed out above, drive safely.'
This is insane. Is that what you would say in court if you were ever charged with death by dangerous driving? Do you play with both hands while driving? Do you really think it makes you a better driver? Because no one has been hurt yet by a whistle playing driver? Am I the victim of a mass prank here? Do you people really honestly believe that driving while playing a musical instrument is safe?
What about a drunk driver who has never had an accident? How would you respond to him if he told you it's perfectly safe to do so because he's never had an accident? Do you think that would be a good reason to continue?
I really do hope this is a wind-up. If not, I'm very glad that I don't live anywhere near to you.
I also put my tune list so that I can watch traffic and take my eyes off the road for mere seconds.
I am mystified why you don't think playing the whistle can help one drive. I am being serious here. I can name some more reasons it is helpful and less dangerous than, lets say, eating a hamburger or lighting up.
I wonder how many kids I HAVEN't run over because I have been playing my whistle while driving! Maybe it's because they hear me coming. See! Another advantage.
I have to drive to pick up my wife now. That'll give me a moment to brush up on "Tinker's Daughter", which I learned a couple days ago on my way to work.
If you never hear from me again, it was nice knowing you in this life. Catch ya in the next.
Joel-How'd that child get on I-83 in Baltimore. It's a raised highway! Where's her parents for God's sake? There aught to be a law protecting us whistle playing drivers from the progeny of such careless parents! What's the world comming to....
I'll break my self-imposed exile just to say this. If you play an instrument whilst driving a car you are a complete arsehole and you deserve to lose your licence. A better man than I said that driving a car is a gig in itself and that should be enough for the moment for anyone.
Boy! Lighten up, dudes. I play whistle at traffic lights too.
Nate - hit by cars 7 times? I've been a bicycle commuter for
many years, in two countries. I was hit once - really sort of
nudged in the back tyre. I always keep in mind two principles
when I'm biking "might makes right" and ... umm .. how to you
put? Something about Newtonian physics and momentum ...
Anyway, don't give cars the opportunity to hit you.
'Lighten up, dudes'? Is that what you say to victims of careless drivers? And yes you can cause accidents even when you're stationery at traffic lights, especially if you're doing something as moronic as playing a whistle at the wheel. Lighten up?
I'm finding this discussion really disturbing. Perhaps you should go and brag about your ability to play at the wheel at
I used to be able to hold my breath under water for just over 60 seconds, yet the longest I can drive with my eyes closed is about twenty seconds..of course it also depends on the speed I'm driving at when I try it!....
I see thousands of people driving like arseholes who are NOT playing whistles, who are NOT talking on the cell phones, who are NOT texting, eating, drinking, smoking etc etc....
When I was a mail carrier, I drove up to a house which had a mail box by the road. I unstrapped my seat belt so that I could reach the box. Two little kids came out to get the mail. When they noted that I didn't have my seat belt on, they stood there and pointed at me and shreaked loadly over and over in a wierd, unnerving chant "Brain damage! Brain damage! Brain damage! Brain damage! ". It was so freaky I remember it clearly so many years later.
This thread reminded me of that freakish overreaction. There must be more to this than meets the eye. Some unnamed phobia. Maybe I can get some of Obama's stimulas money and do reseach.
Good point, hup, about being hit 7 times on a bike. Maybe some individuals riding a bike are more dangerous than others playing a whistle while driving. I wonder how many accidents happen because drivers are avoiding careless cyclists.
Has anyone read the "Families against careless drivers" site? They want to throw you in jail for six months to two years and fining you $5,000 for not "checking a blindspot" or "following too closely".
There is a morbid poem on the homepage that Joel maybe could set to music.
Yes, it should be blindingly obvious to everyone that a motor vehicle is not, say, a shopping cart--it can become a deadly weapon, in less time than it takes to think about it. Sadly, many drivers don't seem to understand that.
Sure, you can joke (my favorite: "Don't drink and drive; you might hit a bump and spill the whole thing") but I don't think it's a good idea to encourage careless driving. Especially in an online chat room where you can't judge the ability of everybody to understand that you're only joking. Kids (i.e., teenagers) might read some of this and decide to try it.
Bottom line, driving a car is serious business. Plenty of people have died because somebody was careless behind the wheel, followed too closely, didn't check their blind spot, etc., and that's no joke. Something that can kill you--or somebody else--demands respect.
I'm still chuckling to my self at the possible reactions of 99% of drivers seeing Fiddlechick's suggested bumper sticker saying "Caution: High D on board."
"Dude, we're following a rap star!"
"Don't drive too close to this one, Mabel. Must be druggies in the car."
"...?..."
'Oh, Joel, get a life! It's a light-hearted discussion. Lighten up!'
Phew thanks Mark. I thought that these people really were driving around like dangerous morons playing the whistle at the same time. I'm glad to hear it's just a light-hearted thing and that this is not happening. The streets are safe again. Could have sworn some of those posts were serious though.
Sure Shanty there are plenty of different ways to drive like an areshole, so if you honestly play a musical instrument while sriving you have plenty of fellow areshole friends.
Sure you know what you are doing, can handle it and are safe. Just like all those drunk drivers said. Every bit as safe as them.
Ignore my last post -- I just read feardog's last post about the 'morbid' poem. The poem at http://www.familiesfightingcarelessdriving.com/ was written on behalf of people who are killed by people who do not pay attention when they are driving. To mock it like you are doing is disgusting. Make fun of me all you like, but don't disrespect the memory of people who are killed by idiots.
I agree with Chris. If you drive and play and instrument at the same time you are no less of an idiot than a drunk driver. Gary Farmer: you should be ashamed of yourself.
'Has anyone read the "Families against careless drivers" site? They want to throw you in jail for six months to two years and fining you $5,000 for not "checking a blindspot" or "following too closely".'
Gary Farmer: don't twist and misrepresent what you have read. Families Against Careless Drivers are not proposing this at all. They want these sanctions to be imposed on people who cause DEATH by careless driving. This is the text from their website:
'Our proposed change for Canada would also involve a new law implemented called “careless driving causing death”. It is broken down into 3 sections as well:
Careless driving causing death when there was definite speeding involved or running red lights or weaving back and forth between lanes or cutting cars off, i.e. very close to the current charge of dangerous driving
1 year minimum – 3 year prison sentence and 3 year driving suspension and $10,000 fine
Careless driving causing death where evidence supports there was speeding involved or running red lights and/or not adhering to basic rules of road, i.e. not checking blindspot, following too closely
6 month minimum – 2 year prison sentence and 4 year driving suspension and $5000 fine
Careless driving causing death where the person was following the basic rules of the road, but unfortunately had momentary inattention, i.e. looked away for a quick moment.
0 - 6 month prison sentence and 5 year driving suspension and $5000 fine'
If you cause a death by playing the whistle at the wheel, do you think that these sanctions should apply to you?
Why wait to apply the sanctions until after these careless actions cause a death? Do it now. All the lives that can be saved!
Oh No! Fear dearg is exposed! His real name is GARY FARMER!!! That joel is so much more clever than he comes across on this site to be able to research that out! oh, wait a minute...he got that from my profile.
I am against unsfe driving. I just don't think playing the whistle while driving constitutes such.
Well, there it is. Another poor analogy. Drinking impairs the thought process and perceptions. Drunks think they are funny, talented, etc as well. Have you never known an alcoholic that knows he is unsafe as a driver when he is sober?
You won't meet anyone who thinks themselves an unsafe driver. Yet people are in accidents all the time. I imagine there's many people involved in multiple accidents over the course of thier life. You'd do far better making the world safe by getting thosepeople off the road than picking on a handful of tin whistle players.
But it is not just feadearg's opinion. Stand by to be amazed as he cites numerous studies that challange the counterintuitive notion that doing something else while driving is actually safer. Gasp as he reveals numerous professional drivers and driving instructors that advise playing instruments, putting on makeup, talking on the cell phone...all will make you a better, safer driver. We will be humbled by your scientific genius.
Random-How could you 'cause' someones death while driving. If you're paying attention you should have no problems. If a person steps out in front of you, giving you no time to react, it's not your fault is it? you didn't 'cause it-they did. If the car malfuntions, breaks fail etc...still not your fault. I don't believe there are 'accidents'. Someone makes a mistake. Things don't 'just happen' So again....if you are paying attention I doubt you'll ever 'cause' anyone's death with your car.
I can't imagine doing anything that would take both hands off the wheel, but have played the harmonica in the past on quiet stretches of highway. This thread has made me think twice about that practice. Rather sobering, epecially the comments that no one thinks that their driving is impared, even drunks......
I appreciate your concern. This is simply my way. I take responsibility for my actions.* From a legal standpoint your rationale is valid.
Having dealt with a handful of legal situation I know how important it is to review the events carefully. At the end of the day though; my peace of mind, & that of others, is more important than anything else.
* here's my pecking order
if my vehicle weighs more & goes faster than yours I yield to you & cut a wide berth:
cars yield to bicycles, etc.
bicycles yield to pedestrians
everyone yields to baby carriages . . .
The real question, "is it O.K. to allow your baby to play whistle while laying in said carriage?"
Al, I know someone who hit a pedestrian (drinking & driving)
The pedestrian did not sustain injury & the police did not give my friend a breathalyzer. A couple of weeks later he explained to me what happened. He spent at least one half hour trying to figure out how to adjust his passenger side mirror so that it did not produce a blindspot. He insists he never saw the fellow because the mirror obstructed his view.
I am sure something else was effecting his ability to see the man.
The fact that there are thousands of ways of being an unsafe driver does not make any one of them acceptable through being deemed "less dangerous" than the others.
I have just experimented and discovered that playing a whistle with my tongue in my cheek adds nothing to my proficiency so I assume all these posts are genuine. Shame on you. I agree with Joel completely.
I am certainly not suggesting that one unsafe activity is better than the other. You're missing my point. Many things we do in life take a certain amount of skill. This is quite clear in music. Some are better than others. Driving is a skill. Some are better than others. If you are unable to change the radio while driving you should not attempt it. If you can't sip a soda from a straw while driving you shouldn't do it. If you are unable to chat with the fellow sitting next to you without posing a risk to to yourself and those around you then shut up and drive. If you can't talk on a cell phone and drive without forgetting that you are in command of a large dangerous vehicle don't do it and...if you don't think you are able to play tin whistle and safely drive PLEASE don't try it.
To further illustrate the point look at older drivers. They have a crash per mile rate equal to teens. The lady that hit me in my 'one and only' accident was an elderly lady. Seniors are certainly not engaging in any 'distracted' driving activities (she was not playing tin whistle), yet, statisticly they are a high risk group.
No Shanty, you miss the point. The laws against what is illegal to do whilst driving are made by statistical analysis. They deliberatly eschew, for good reason, what any individual thinks they are safe doing.
Over that last 10 years or so, a great many people have lost their lives in accidents involving mobile phone use. The practice was banned. It's as simple as that. If anyone is arrogant enough to think that they are better drivers than the average, and that they can quite safely drive whilst using their moble phone, they should, and will, be prosecuted. end of story.
llig-Not banned in theUS. Some places have made local laws but no federal law banning cell phone use. The statistics link cell phone use to a low percentage of accidents here. Given that there's 300 million of us crawling around between Canada and Mexico that's a lot of accidents but the statistical percentage is less than 10 percent.
Um, playing the whistle requires both hands to be off the bloody steering wheel, which to me is WORSE than using a mobile phone since you can have one or both hands on the whilst using a phone. So while I agree that it's not a particularly good idea to use a mobile phone and drive, at least you have some reasonable control over the vehicle. I don't care how good a "knee driver" you think you are. There is no way anyone has the same amount of control with their knees as they do with their hands.
Oh and llig a lot of laws are pushed by a need for votes. That's why cell phones are likely to be banned yet seniors will retain thier licenses. Seniors vote. And in the public's eye cell phones are objects of derision.
Playing the whistle requires almost no concentration. I read the news, watch TV, and, in my last job, and the one before that, worked while playing the whistle. I know that when I have used a cell phone while driving (rare. I used to pull over to talk) my concentration was on the conversation. I scared myself while on the cell phone.
Steering is the only issue worth considering here.
You know you can play and think at the same time. Here you are playing a complicated tune all the while thinking what would be a good tune to go into, what key that tune is in, and what rhythm. You are thinking about where you learned that tune and who you have played it with. You are thinking about refills, rosin, and that cute thing at the bar and thinking thoughts about the friendship and aggravations of your fellow players. Again, while playing at lightning speed.
I know there have been threads on falling asleep while playing, closing your eyes, looking down, reading spots. If you are a whistler who does this, don't drive and play.
So loss of concentration on driving safely while driving and playing is not an issue if you have the tune in muscle memory.
feardearg, you are absolutely, completely wrong about this.
All issues of paying attention aside--and many studies indicate that "multi-tasking" consistently causes inferior performance at both or several tasks--if you are driving while keeping your mouth glued to the whistle, and using both hands for fingering, you cannot have adequate control of your car. You can't turn your head to check the blind spot before changing lanes, or to look both ways at intersections. You can't turn the wheel quickly enough to dodge a sudden obstacle ahead of you. You aren't in a good posture to maintain control if somebody else bumps into you, or some other unexpected event happens.
So just drive like a responsible grown-up from now on, OK?
I have never heard of any reputable professional driver state that it was safe to do anything other than driving while you're piloting a vehicle. All studies seem to agree that there is some loss of concentration, even when the participants didn't notice this loss. Perhaps you have something scientific, some proof that you can offer us that you're safe doing this?
I confess to playing the harmonica when my car is stopped. But it goes in the passenger seat when I am moving at any speed.
shanty, read my last post carefully. Forearms won't cut it, in an emergency. And emergencies can happen in an instant, when you're on the highway. You can't assume that you will have time to put the whistle down, and then grab the wheel. Save the multi-tasking for office work, where you won't kill somebody by not reacting fast enough.
I'm wondering what a lawyer would make of all this should any of the above whistle-playing drivers ever be involved in an accident.But that could never happen,could it?
Thank god we don't live in litigious countries like the UK and the USA.
Btw,you would n't mind if I fitted a big spike to your steering wheel then?I don't mind if it has six holes either;just so long as it's very,very,very sharp.And I don't mean pitch.
Nothing to do with whistle playing but I was driving down Millbank about an hour ago and there was the aftermath of what looked to have been a serious accident involving a car and a motorbike.
"So just drive like a responsible grown-up from now on, OK?"
Ok.
Shanty, you crack me up.
TaoCat, playing while your car is stopped. Thanks for the confession but Joel says...
"And yes you can cause accidents even when you're stationery at traffic lights, especially if you're doing something as moronic as playing a whistle at the wheel. "
"loss of concentration" you say. Well, have you ever pulled into a parking lot at work or a driveway at home and was shocked that you got there almost on auto-pilot and were surprised that you were there already and don't remember making any of the turns (I hope someone has had this experience or I am in deeper do-do than before)? Concentration was non-existant. But you got there safely.
"Perhaps you have something scientific, some proof that you can offer us that you're safe doing this?"
Maybe Joel can do research on my driving record. It's perfect. No tickets. No accidents. All the dents on my vehicles were put there by my non-whistling wife. Been playing the recorder and then the whistle since my mid twenties. I am 54 now. You would think a complete moron like me would have tickets and smashups and pedestrian murders on my record.
There's already more than enough bad habits to cause all sorts of chaos on the roads.
But there's always something that can be added to make life that little more on the edge.
'Concentration was non-existant. But you got there safely. '
Yes,you got there safely because nothing unexpected happened and we're all thankful for it.But when you're in this state of mind your reaction is impaired.
I know that state quite well-I've sometimes played two pages of a score completely on automatic pilot.Usually with no disasters but if something unusual were to happen on stage then I would be stymied.
And yes,I have had that same experience whislt driving and it's a nasty feeling when you realise what's happened.
Btw,I use 'you' in the general sense.I can't bring myself to ever use 'one'.
'Maybe Joel can do research on my driving record. It's perfect. No tickets. No accidents. All the dents on my vehicles were put there by my non-whistling wife. Been playing the recorder and then the whistle since my mid twenties. I am 54 now. You would think a complete moron like me would have tickets and smashups and pedestrian murders on my record.
I rest my case.'
Sorry,I was writing when the above was posted and I was n't aware that you are such a paragon when it comes to driving.An ipsissimus even.
My driving record is squeaky clean too-no fines,no accidents.
Does this mean I'm an exemplary driver incapable of causing an accident?
No Biggus but why not harrass people causing the problem. Insurance companies classify a group of people as 'high risk' drivers based on, and for good reason, past performance. These are the folks with multiple accidents,speeding tickets,DUI arrests etc etc....I think they are the withches you all need to burn....
"And yes,I have had that same experience whislt driving and it's a nasty feeling when you realise what's happened."
Why nasty? This is the beauty of the human mind. Had a cat ran out in front of your car, you would have stopped. You weren't unconcious, just on "cruise control".
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Work And Contemplation - Elizabeth Barrett Browning
The woman singeth at her spinning-wheel
A pleasant chant, ballad or barcarolle;
She thinketh of her song, upon the whole,
Far more than of her flax; and yet the reel
Is full, and artfully her fingers feel
With quick adjustment, provident controul,
The lines, too subtly twisted to unroll,
Out to a perfect thread.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
We can concentrate and excel on many things at once.
The downside of a car accident can be much greater than some mis-twisted thread.
If you damage somebody's property, or injure them, or kill them because you didn't have your hands on the steering wheel, or didn't look both ways at an intersection, or couldn't control your car during an unexpected emergency... oh forget it. You obviously prefer denial. I just hope you stay lucky, for everybody else's sake.
So, while you offer no evidence other than nothing untoward has occurred so far, you believe yourself perfectly justified. There are people that drive drunk for years without wrecking. That is a statistical anomaly, not evidence.
Nobody in their right mind would advise taking their hands off the wheel and engaging in another activity while driving. The fact that nothing has happened yet is not evidence that it is safe. But it's clear that you will hold on to your opinion regardless of facts against it.
Coming in late to this thread, but was reminded of a remark I once heard about distracted driving:
"One interesting thing to do is, while you're driving down a straight stretch of road, just close your eyes for about six or seven seconds. Chances are, you can do this many times, and nothing bad is going to happen. Does that mean it's safe?"
I seem to recall our own Ptarmigan relating a story about pulling into a lay-by on the A90 many years ago, late one night, and having to play a tune on the concertina as he'd had it going in his head and couldn't remember a couple of notes. It was a cold night and the windows steamed up a bit - and with the interior light being on, and him obviously fiddling about with something around groin level - what must that have looked like?
"But what about if I'm reading the dots whilst driving? Is this also considered multitasking?"
The point of difference is that just playing does not require your attention to be taken away from driving. Dots, cellphones, radio buttons, make-up, GPS, eating, etc all do.
No problem. Why don't you just take pictures through your windscreen, preferably whilst driving fast (they'd look more exciting with all that blurring). And, if you needed to change your lens, no need to stop! I bet you can do it blindfolded! You could even switch memory cards or load a new film on the go!
"...just playing does not require your attention to be taken away from driving..."
Wow! you must be a brilliant whistle player then! I still wouldn't want you at our session though. You might get killed on the way here, and,even if you made it all the way, we do like people to give their full attention to their playing, which you clearly don't.
"I suspect differences in personality or mental abilities or driving style and preferences is behind our disagreement."
Meaning, I assume, that you think have greater powers in these departments that the posters who are demurring. Who told you had? Perhaps one day, whilst the fire brigade are cutting you out of your wreck, you'd be good enough to play them a little tune on your whistle to keep them entertained. If it isn't buried half-way down your throat, that is.
It's just that you are clearly so superior a whistle -player that you do it second-nature and don't need to concentrate at all, by the sound of it, and that you are clearly so superior a driver that you do it second-nature and don't need to concentrate on that at all either. By the sound of it. Only going off what you've said.
I am probably towards the other end of the spectrum when it comes to being distracted by music.
The worst case was when I was sitting professional finals in London, and the London Symphony Orchestra was rehearsing a Brahms symphony loud and clear in the hall downstairs. I wasn't the only one to complain afterwards, but nothing could be done about it. Fortunately, the orchestra wasn't there for the remainder of the week.
And if you're wondering - yes, I did pass (just).
I suppose it all depends how busy our lives are. Sometimes I am so busy that the only time I get to myself to practice guitar is when I am in the car going from place to place.
As long as I put the seat back as far as it goes I can fit the guitar in fine between myself and the stearing wheel. Put a good cd on the player and I can practice accompaniment to my heart's content. It certainly helps to relieve the boredom of a long journey. Of course I would only do it on long, relatively straight roads like a motorway or the A9. Doing it when driving past a primary school would just be silly, certainly after the last time. Still a lesson learned the hard way is a lesson never forgotten.
Congratulations on passing, lazyhound! Do you find it a distraction in noisy pubs or beginner players who may not be right on in rhythm or note? Or sports on the Large screen?
Wonderful hyperbole, NCFA. Great humour device. Not so good in making a point.
I saw the point even while I am eating a pumpkin pie, entertaining my parrot and listening to Bach while typing on the mustard board. I am also considering the weather (I plan to take the dog for a walk) and wondering if I have time to practice before the session this afternoon. I just scratched my head as I read over what I just typed.
I must be a genius to be able to do all these things at simultaneously.
All well and good, feardearg--but none of those things can kill you, or somebody else, in an instant. Driving a car is not like those things. Driving a car can kill you, or somebody else, in the blink of an eye, if you are not prepared (both mentally and physically) to deal with a sudden hazard. Wake up and smell the coffee.
People assume I play whistle while driving because I keep a whistle in the front seat of my truck. In the past I have given in to this temptation.
I recognize the safety concern & choose not to play with other people's life's.
These are the circumstances when I play.
- in parking lots ~ after I come out of a store I will play what I heard on the store radio.
- at a stoplight, the stick in neutral, my foot on the brake. Once the light changes I put the whistle down.
Playing while driving certainly isn't for the music. It is simply a cheap thrill. If one uses it to stave off boredom then, by definition, it is a distraction (from the task of driving).
In California the law regarding cellphones initially reduced their use. It is slowly creeping back up. People love their gadgets.
The Department of Motor Vehicles has this to say about distractions,
"Driving is a skill that requires your full attention to safely control your vehicle and respond to events happening on the roads around you.
Driving involves constant and complex coordination between your mind and body.
Events or things that prevent you from operating your car safely are distractions.
There are three types of distractions and they are anything that takes your:
* eyes off the road (visual).
* mind off the road (cognitive).
* hands off the steering wheel (manual).
When you think about the actions you make in your vehicle, other than just driving, you can see that they often involve more than one type of distraction.
For instance, if you change your radio station, you take a hand off the steering wheel to press a button, and take your eyes off the road to
look at what button you want to press."
Well, feardreag, you've taught me a valuable lesson. I should be allowed to shoot my deer rifle right in the city, seeing how close I can come to people without hitting them. After all, it's just nonsense to assume it's dangerous. I haven't hit anybody so far, and it shouldn't be a crime 'til I wound or kill somebody.
The only comfort I get from reading this is knowing that most of those drivers are not in the same country as I am. I hope that those that live with these potential killers find a way to control them.
Then again nobody could be that stupid, so it's all a wind-up.
llig The problem with that is that most of the Darwin Awards, although funny, are fake. The stuff didn't really happen or the details were changed to make them funny. That is the problem with this dreary thread. A lot of people chasing phantoms
taocat --you say' The fact that nothing has happened yet is not evidence that it is safe'.
Shanty- Some people can smoke their whole lives without getting lung cancer. This does not indicate that smoking is safe, merely that they dodge a statistical bullet. A single person's belief that they are safe doing an activity because it hasn't caused them any harm is the same justification that street racers and smokers use. It is a denial of the actual facts.
No one has looked at the facts. The fact is that 'Cell Phone' use, the nearest statistic we could use to represent whistle playing while driving, although it may not be a good comparison, is responsable for less than 10 percent of accidents. AGAIN if you just look at 'high risk' drivers they cause, factually and statistically more accidents than the cell phone group and most certainly the whistle group.
And ya know what? I haven't been rude to anyone on here but all you safety minded individuals, with no facts other than that you 'think' it's unsafe, have been pretty rude and stupid. It seems like you'd be the same crowd hanging witches, Killing 'Indians', looking for commies, hiding from Y2k, banning books, banning Halloween, Looking for subliminal messages.....
Fact: Driving with no hands on the steering wheel is illegal everywhere, for good reason. Saying that somebody else is "more dangerous" does not change that fact.
The facts have been looked at. Regardless of one's own self-appraisal, driving while distracted is dangerous. There are other dangerous drivers as well. This does not mean that we should ignore idiots playing instruments, talking on cell phones, applying makeup, texting or anything else.
This is ridiculous. Google is your friend. Self-appraisal of one's own skill and risk is notoriously faulty. Buy a clue.
"Fact: Driving with no hands on the steering wheel is illegal everywhere . . . " Except for people who are permitted to use a foot steering device.
Speaking of gadgetry, here is something in the high end market: http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/18539
"BERKELEY – The thought of a bus moving along city streets while its driver has both hands off the wheel is alarming.
But a special bus introduced today (Friday, Sept. 5), steered not by a driver, but by a magnetic guidance system developed by engineers at the University of California, Berkeley, performed with remarkable precision. "
"No, I'm not an amputee. But you see, Mr. Driving Examiner, I need a permit to use that foot-steering gadget so I can play my tinwhistle while driving."
Some people will deny anything and everything. Here we go:
"The fact is that 'Cell Phone' use, the nearest statistic we could use to represent whistle playing while driving, although it may not be a good comparison, is responsable for less than 10 percent of accidents. "
The fact is that 15 years ago cellphone use was responsible for nought percent of accidents. I make that an increase of, er, well, infinity...
Too true, Forrest. You probably wouldn't want to install something just to be able to play whistle & drive.
Modified steering devices tend to be pricey & then there is the maintenance. Not to mention the special instruction required.
Best to pucker up & whistle ~ instrument free.
cheers ;)
Shanty reminds me of the kind of person who refuses to wear a seat belt because they think it would hinder them getting out of the car if they accidentally drove into a lake.
I've been driving on the SoCal freeway system for ages and I've seen just about everything, stuff like a guy reading the newspaper propped up on the steering wheel with a cup of coffee in one hand and shaving himself with the other hand.
Heck-some cars have TVs mounted on the dashboard and I've seen people watching those while going 80mph down the freeway.
I did have a bagpiper friend who would get dressed in his kilts, kilt-hose, ghillies, etc and then warm up his pipes by playing them a bit all while driving at 90mph to the funeral he was about to perform at. He was only in one accident in his life, rearended by an old lady while stopped.
In the past I played whistle while driving but no more. I only play when the vehicle is stopped.
Alcohol will kill and ruin more drinkers and other people, destroy families, and ruin the lives of countless innocent children. I haven't seen a thread here that attacks booze with the same ferocity as this one on playing tunes while driving. You laugh at booze threads.
Of course, alcohol isn't and won't be YOUR problem.
Never said alcohol was good, feardog. Just that whistling and driving is bad, despite your amazingly high opinion of yourself. Stop building straw men.
nice try feardearg, but it is difficult to do anything but laugh at your latest arguement. You find the thread where anyone laughed at drink-driving and maybe you'll be taken seriously.
As for the nonsense about cell phones only being resposible for "less than 10 percent" of driving accidents. That is frankly meaningless in the absense of data on how big a percentage of dreiving time is spent ont he cell phone.
e.g. if 80% of all driving time was spent on cell phones and they caused 10% of accidents then it would look like being on a phone actually improved safety.
e.g. If on the other hand 0.1% of total driving time was spent by drivrs on the phone and they caused 10% of accidents then you would be 100x more likely to be in an accident when on the phone than otherwise.
It's no good using statistics. Feardreag knows he is safe driving and playing, despite a mountain of evidence and overwhelming opinion against him. His gut instinct will trump any evidence, because he wants to believe that it is all a bunch of do-good liberals trying to tell him what to do. Not that it is a group of people hearing about somebody doing something pretty stupid and being proud of it, and trying to point out: "hey, that's kinda stupid!"
I've seen this thread pop up, but just now read the whole thing... Two words come to mind, "ego" and "fool."
Totally unbelievable.
Whatever happened to practicing through lilting the tune (humming it? I may not be using that word correctly), or hearing it in your head and feeling it in your fingers, WHILE THEY ARE ON THE STEERING WHEEL?
This has got to be a wind-up. The arguments presented by those that approve of playing while driving are illogical, and totally based on ego. Using statistics won't help, anyone can twist numbers to tell whatever story they want.
This is just too stupid.
Joel, thanks for the reference to RoadPeace; http://www.roadpeace.org/index.asp?PageID=13
I missed the link on my 1st reading. Fortunately I clicked it on a second read through.
The site has a very good concern with great help & information.
Cheers!
It's impossible to really use statistics in this argument, because there isn't enough "whistling whilst driving data"... But if playing whistle while driving was as commonplace as cell phone usage, I'm sure there would be very specific laws against it.
Having said that, I have played music on road trips before (thankfully not while I was driving). And on a recent trip, I did teach a tune to the driver, who learned it by ear, and was able to reproduce it on an instrument as soon as the trip was done.
Probably better than relying on driving & accident data is the use of simulated conditions. This way you can measure reaction time with various types of distraction.
This must be the longest thread with the least amount of connection to Irish music.
While I was driving today I was contemplating the mechanics of holding the steering wheel with your wrists or forearms. When the car was sitting still, I tried holding the steering wheel in the aforesaid manner and pretended I was playing a whistle. Awkward! I concluded that you pretty much have no control of the car while doing this and it is an extremely stupid idea. It doesn't matter if you *only* do it on a straight road. Even on the straightest of roads there might be times when you have to quickly maneuver the vehicle.
“Probably better than relying on driving & accident data is the use of simulated conditions. This way you can measure reaction time with various types of distraction.”
And this has been done with phones and some other multi-task distractions. The results were scary. Driving while talking on the phone, even hands-free, appears to be about as risky as driving drunk.
I was once a passenger in a car where the driver was breaking up with his girlfriend on the mobile phone. While driving through New York City, no less! I was not impressed.
what about a Trad steering wheel. using a converted concertina.. Or indeed 6 electronic pressure pads in a similar configuration to the whistle with some sort of audio output.. take it to extremes and mount speakers on your roof...
Look, I thought this thread would die a natural death....but it lives on!
Here's the deal. Fidkid, a good friend and someone you all have come to admire and trust, who can testify that I am not some nutcase but a sober, serious sort who loves and cares for all people, will volunteer to be my passenger at rush hour at Haggery and eight mile and maybe up I-275 since it is near and the interchange to I-96 west. He will observe my technique and report back. Do you need video, too?
I. First of all, there was bound to be an accident. Everyone was driving on the wrong side of the road.
II. had that young lady been playing the whistle a) her eyes would have been on the road b) she would not have been talking because i) you can't talk and play ii) everyone would have gotten out of the car beforehand.
III. The person coming the other way, had they been playing the whistle, their eyes would have been on the road and would have avoided the texter.
IV. Had the person who hit them last been playing the whistle, their eyes would have been on the road and they would not have delivered the deadly crash.
In conclusion, the argumentum ad video really doesn't prove anything. If it did, the following video would prove how dangerous convertables are:
Thank you, random. I appreciate the extra attention.
I think the two issues are:
1) whistles take so much attention that there wouldn't be enough paid to driving.
2) Even if enough attention was paid to driving, because both hands aren't on the wheel, one wouldn't be able to react in emergency.
Both are the points worth debate.
Not everyone can dictate 9 letters to 9 secretaries simultaneously like Napoleon, or hum be next tune in the set while playing. Some can, some can't. If you can't drive and play, don't.
Not everyone is a skilled driver able to anticipate emergencies. If you can't, don't play and drive.
Not everyone has power steering. if you can't make minor turns with your wrist or knee, don't play and drive.
In fact, I don't recommend playing and driving. It is a skill I have developed over decades. Most drivers I know could not/should not do it.
“The person coming the other way, had they been playing the whistle, their eyes would have been on the road and would have avoided the texter.”
People talking on the phone while driving have their eyes on the road, too. And still they drive as badly as a drunk. Most impaired drivers grossly underestimate their impairment, so it’s not smart to consider yourself an exception to the danger.
One could suspect that the actual danger from distracted driving is even worse than the studies conclude, since the drivers know they are being tested and are probably more aware than they would be in the real world.
OK then, genius--go to a driving school that has simulators, and have them run you through some accident-avoidance scenarios while you play. Get video of your efforts and it up on YouTube. That way we can have a good laugh at your expense, without putting anybody in danger.
The laws against what is illegal to do whilst driving are made by statistical analysis. They deliberatly eschew, for good reason, what any individual thinks they are safe doing.
Over that last 10 years or so, a great many people have lost their lives in accidents involving mobile phone use. The practice was banned. It's as simple as that. If anyone is arrogant enough to think that they are better drivers than the average, and that they can quite safely drive whilst playing a tinb whistle, they should, and will, be prosecuted. end of story.
I would be very interested in seeing the results of you, feardearg, running some accident avoidance scenarios on a simulator, while playing whistle.
;)
We are not talking cell phone. I think the two are separate issues.
I think I may take you up on the simulation. That could be revelatory one way or another.
Llig...you have such faith in law makers. You don't seem the type. But there are two things, they say, that you do not want to know how they make: laws and hot dogs.
Why am I not surprised to see the same arguments by the opposition. llig posted the same argument, almost verbatum, 70 posts ago.
As I said, back then, cell phone use is not banned in the USA and using you logic ie-if its banned it must be wrong/dangerous/deadly, then the opposte must hold true ie- if it's NOT banned it must be safe.
And Forrest, saying the same thing 100 times doesn't prove a point. Being rude doesn't prove a point. But like many people who can't debate I guess it makes you feel better to be rude.
OK genius?
Number one cause of accidents is not, in fact, distracted driving. It's simply driver error. How could you legislate that?
And I CAN say I'm a better driver than the average driver if my driving record is better than the average driving record! DUH!
and double DUH!
when you guys make a ffcking point I'll be back. Otherwise you can all go back to brow beating fourteen year old girls for learning Irish music from sheet music.
Hello, Shanty. Welcome back to the thread. I bet you thought we had moved on.
I didn't think Llig nor forest was rude, tho. I always appreciate their straightforwardness.
Believe me, I have thought a lot about our wee discussion these past few days as I have moved around vehcularly. It has done me good, I think. Altho I am sure I am safer than many of the people I have avoided on the road.
I do find that I do put the whistle down when traffic and such gets more intense than usual. I also discovered that I use both hands when going thru intersections and changing lanes. I even discovered that I don't turn corners while playing. Lastly, I find myself passing people less than they pass me, so I must be going under the speed limit some, and therefore I rarely have to stop quick because someone unexpectantly stopped in front of me.
I guess I haven't been paying a lot of attention to my whistle playing or I would have know these things.
Some things are worth repeating. Don't rely an individual's opinion of whether they are safe. It is wholly unreliable. (I know, I have small children.)
feardearg needs to be caught and prosecuted. I'd shop him to the cops if I knew who he was.
My father told me he took up the harmonica after seeing a local kid riding a bike no-hands down the street in the 1920s, while playing a tune on the mouth organ.
He thought that was the coolest thing he'd seen.
Or whatever the word was in 1920s. "Pretty flash" I think he said
"In Michigan, teens with probationary licenses whose cell phone usage contributes to a traffic crash or ticket may not use a cell phone while driving."
That's it in Michigan.
Bren! I used to ride a 10-speed home from work everyday (8 miles) and played the whistle while riding then, too.
"You guage your speed merely in relation to other road users?" 1) Michigan drivers are speeders (except me) 2) I drive in coordination wirh traffic lights, of whose timing I am aware, having paid close attention. Saves gas.
Actually, "genius" was the most polite term, out of the several I considered. But I'm glad you are thinking more about safe driving habits, that's got to be a good thing.
"You guage your speed merely in relation to other road users? Flippin heck."
If you drive the posted speed on many busy American highways you can be a safety hazzard. You have to keep up with traffic. I'm sure that all the saints on this thread will deny this but it is the truth. Especially when it was 55 here in the north east corridor.
The cell phone thing came up to back my argument as an example of 'distracted driving'. Any side taken in an argument needs to be backed by facts.
*Cell phone use while driving is not banned through out the US
*it is the cause of less than 10% of accidents
*90% of accidents are not caused by cell phones
*vast majority of Accidents are caused by driver error
*Feardearg has a spotless driving record, better than many
*Statistically Forrest Gump here is just as likely to cause an accident as feardearg.
*I've had only one accident(not my fault) but have driven hundreds of times more miles than most people.
'High risk' drivers cause the most accidents, most do not play whistle while driving
there is at this time no evidense to suggest that whistle playing by fearearg whilst driving poses any threat to himself or anyone else.
Slams the lid on it for me
I can attest that Michigan drivers are speeders, born and bred. I think it's a cultural thing. Sort of like how Greek cab drivers ignore lanes. Speed limits are looked upon as sort of friendly if somewhat conservative suggestions. That's motown for you.
I use the fact that my fellow citizens speed as a safety factor when playing the whistle. There is usually several car lengths ahead of me, so there is no chance of sudden stops that can't be seen and negotiated.
I drive in the lanes furthest from the curb so kids or little animals can be spotted before tragedy, and right turning cars don't cause me to slow down and speed up. I also can thereby avoid pot holes that may cause damage to my expensive dental work.
I have tested to see if I slow down playing airs and speed up for reels. There seems to be no correlation.
I'm glad to see that this discussion is still running, but it's obvious now that no amount of persuasion will stop these people's dangerous driving habits.
Feardog (Gary Farmer from Redford, Michigan – it's in his profile), however, has been a little reckless in other ways. He has written several posts boasting about his insane, dangerous and illegal driving habits, and his name and locality are clearly traceable. I wouldn't as Llig says 'shop him to the cops', but the session.org discussions come out quite high on google searches. Search for 'playing while driving' for example and this session comes out at the top of the list. It didn't last week (I know: I tried it).
I really hope you are stopped before you hurt yourself or others.
What an idiot, Joel. Read my profile again. A little more carefully. Or have someone else read it to you. Read my nickname here, too, McDimwit. Research what it means.
Let this be a warning to all posters, however. A little fun can get the infantile snitches after you. You never know what type of trolls lurk. This post was obviously meant to do me harm. Has this ever been attempted on thesession.org?
There are many more charming pictures (and a cool slideshow ta boot) of him on his myspace page in case you are as interested in seeing him in different and dramatic poses as he obviously thinks you should be.
Anyway, I have no idea why he thinks he is so clever to reveal my true identity after I have revealed in my profile. I am not batman, after all. He may have issues that may be hidden behind those poopy cheeks. But this was a feeble (minded) atttempt to do me personal harm.
Here is his hand. He thought you might enjoy seeing his hand:
Playing while driving
Playing while driving
Actually playing tunes while driving a car. I don't mean air fiddle. Thought I was the only one that did such a foolish thing until I started asking around!
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by Kerry Evan
Re: Playing while driving
Do you mean like when waiting at the traffic lights, or when going 50 km/h? either way, I don't have an instrument lying around in the car, but I would only do it in the first case.
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by TMB
Re: Playing while driving
I keep a whistle or three in the car and play when stopped at traffic lights.
Wouldn't recommend playing whilst the car is moving. You might end up impaled with a whistle, like an ITM version of Phineas Gage.
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Playing while driving
Harmonica - I only got one so I could play Moon River on it. But I keep it cos I can play whilst driving.
Best to keep the eyes open though.
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by showaddydadito
Re: Playing while driving
I think most whistle players are guilty of this, myself included. Usually only play while stopped, but playing during long straight drives in the middle lane with no traffic around is not out of the question either. Have learned alot of tunes during daily commutes.
I actually recall a fairly funny t-shirt design or something that somebody posted during a discussion several years ago about this same topic (I think that's where I saw it). If I recall correctly, it was a drawing in the style of the Book of Kells with a man with his knee on the steering wheel and playing the whistle with a big X through it. Worth seeing if anyone has the link to it.
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by Jason G
Re: Playing while driving
Actually, here's the link:
http://www.chiffandfipple.com/kneedriving.html
My recollection was mostly correct.
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by Jason G
Re: Playing while driving
I never play while the car is moving, mostly because it's probably not a good idea (explain that one to the cops, or your insurance company) and also, I can't reach my steering wheel with my knees.
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Playing while driving
Not that I condone playing didgeridoo in general, but I remember years back where a friend of mine made a custom didge out of PVC pipe with elbows put in so he could play it in the car!
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by mumhain abu
Re: Playing while driving
I used to keep a whistle in the car, when I often drove alone. Now that I'm rarely in the car without passengers, I leave the hoodlie stick at home.
I'm curious if anyone has ever played music with others in the car, and if so, were they also musicians, and also playing? Sort of a mobile session? I think that'd be a great way to do a road trip, as long as the designated driver abstained from playing. Alas, I've never taken a long road trip with enough trad musicians to make it feasible.
Cheers,
JKB
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by Jeff Berndt
Re: Playing while driving
Some of us have enough trouble playing while stationary and not in a vehicle, but then I've also not quite mastered walking while talking into a mobile phone.
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by Here Lyeth
Re: Playing while driving
Is this some kind of sick joke? Do you really think it's Ok to play a whistle when you're driving? Stationary or moving? Why not crack open a few beers or a bottle of whisky while you're at it?
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by McDermott
Re: Playing while driving
Hmm - now that IS an idea.
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by showaddydadito
Re: Playing while driving
I sometimes practice picking triplets with my right hand, its a kind of one handed air guitar/banjo. It could be misconstrued as something far more embarrassing!
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by T
Re: Playing while driving
Must try it with the harp!
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by Mark Harmer
Re: Playing while driving
On a moped Mark, would look impressive!
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by T
Re: Playing while driving
We had a plumber once who used to practice the penny whistle in his van at traffic lights. His other trick was riding a unicycle while installing a central heating system.
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by Here Lyeth
Re: Playing while driving
I play whistle ALL the time when driving and have so for a decade. I had a job that took me from just below NYC to Washington DC and everything in between. And that gave me lots of practice time so when I got home I had plenty of time to devote to children.
I burned through a company car every year and a half and had only one accident. It wasn't my fault. I was hit by a prominent judges wife. She had poodles in the car and was more worried about them than me!
If I coud figure ouyt how to do it with the damn concertina I would!
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
My only fear was at traffic stops. My whistle's black and I always warned police as soon as they got near that I have a tin whistle between the seats, lest it be mistaken, at a glance, for a gun.....unarmed people have died for less....
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
Which means...yes... I'm guilty of speeding while playing whistle....and usually no seat belt either!
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
I've tried the Horn Concerto a few time when driving but never between the hours of 23.00 hrs and 07.00hrs in a build up area, and never whilst stationary. I've also used discretion when outside hospitals.
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by Free Reed
Re: Playing while driving
Over here, you're presumed innocent until proved otherwise. The police will normally wait until they've heard you play before they shoot you.
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by Here Lyeth
Re: Playing while driving
In answer to Jeff Bernt,
I did once take part in a sort of mobile session, it's been mentioned here once before by Guernsey Pete who was also there, see discussion http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/19406/comments#comment405520
''Played all the way from London to Barnsley in a Transit minibus on the way to Barnsley Folk Festival, back in about '76.
Cathy Cook was sitting next to me and had to wind down the window for her fiddle-bow ! OOPS, no, must have been '86, '96 maybe !''
I'm glad to say the driver wasn't playing, but I think most of the others on the bus were.
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by cathycook
Re: Playing while driving
Shanty if you are serious about playing while actually driving then I find it frankly appalling. No better than texting.
You can continue to say you haven't cuased any accidents by having your attention divided right up until the day that you kill or main someone. It still makes you as guilty of playing lose with other peoples lives and health as if you'd fired a gun willy nilly into an area where there were "unlikely" to be bystanders.
Drivers often forget that they are in charge of a machine that could easy be considered a weapon.
- chris
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: Playing while driving
I don't try to play music while driving because it is somewhat difficult to play a piano and/or a string bass while driving.
Also, whenever someone mentions a mobile phone (yes I know that is another term for a cell phone), I think of an image of a telephone with a pair of legs attached to it so it can walk and follow you around while you are talking into it. Either that, or a pair of wheels on it like that garbage can robot (R2D2) from the Star Wars movies.
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: Playing while driving
Oh geez, it's like ITM texting-while-driving! Well, just be sure to affix a bumper sticker that warns the rest of us:
"Warning: Irish Flute in the backseat"
or
"Caution: High D on board"
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by Fiddlechick7
It is the law
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPzeCcoXZjA
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Playing while driving
Herself gets a tad upset if I play my box while driving. While she may appreciate the finer points of reed instruments, with the American preference for thumping hip hop and waily girl country pop singers in clothes four sizes too small, She claims accordion distracts the other drivers!
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Playing while driving
I knew someone who played harmonica while driving. He's dead now. So is the little boy he hit.
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by gam
Re: Playing while driving
Hey - here's someone playing the Uke while driving to work!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRGwMWX8lwA
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by Mark Harmer
Re: Playing while driving
...and at university I knew a horn player who used to practise in the lift in a 13-floor tower block. She used to reckon at least it shared out the disturbance equally between everyone.
In a car with open windows, I suppose you'd get interesting doppler effects, but a lift doesn't move quickly enough for that.
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by Mark Harmer
Re: Playing while driving
as a cyclist who has been hit by cars 7 times, may I plead with you to please put your fiddle down and DRIVE THE FEKKIN CAR!
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by Nate Ryan
Re: Playing while driving
You can clearly see the fiddle bow in the driver's hand before impact here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d12bFayc5o
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by T
Re: Playing while driving
Practicing at traffic lights...isn't that what red lights are there for? Actually helps me focus on the light, otherwise my mind would be wandering. I've sat (blush) through a green light a few times in the past, but never when I'm playing my whistle. Unlike a cigarette or cell phone, I can quickly tuck the whistle under the console next to me when the light changes. Others in the car? My dear 14 y/o son for whom the following was designed:
http://www.cafepress.com/ITMGoodies/6234306
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by itsawhistle
Re: Playing while driving
Second thought- well, guess Reverend designed it *for* the store, not my long-suffering ds. But ds got the first one and wears it proudly.
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by itsawhistle
Re: Playing while driving
You need a new T shirt:
'My mum plays diddley shxxe
Endlessly
Even when she's driving
Does anyone have a phone? I need to call an ambulance. She caused an accident at the lights. I think someone is dead.'
Hilarious isn't it? I laughed all the way to hospital/mortuary.
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by McDermott
Re: Playing while driving
Joel- your t shirt is pretty funny but I don't think you'd sell to many. Most people don't have my sense of humor....
unbelievable....There ought to be a law!!!
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
that's 'too many'
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
I was being serious. Have I missed something?
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by McDermott
Re: Playing while driving
Yes Joel, you've missed the thrill of speeding through Baltimore drunk on jigs and reels. It's a clear October night. 1995 or so... Hunter S Thompson is still living. You're in a rusted '76 Buick Century.Cream colored. Uglier than sin. No seatbelt or air bag. It's been a good night. The moon is full. You're on Pratt street by the harbor playing Scarce O' Tatties. Traffic is moving but now you come to a light. You practice some deep bends on high 'b' from a slow air you learned from an Altan CD you got in a Kmart discout bin for 2.75. The light changes and you're soon on I-83. You hit the interstate, speed up and roll into the Roscommon reel. The city races by, the wind is lashing you hair. Life is good.
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
I'm guilty of "knee driving", but at least I use a fresh whistle, that doesn't stink of whiskey, beer, and tobacco! (when other whistlers complain about the "flavors" of my whistles while playing them.. I just tell them its a special "antiseptic" I use....)
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by beretta
Re: Playing while driving
Sharing whistles? Sounds like a new thread topic to me....I've done it but not often.
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
I got hit by a car whose driver (female) was wearing a skirt. Damn skirts. She almost killed me.
I play almost 100% of the time I am driving. I have a perfect driving record. In fact, I DRIVE BETTER WHEN I AM PLAYING. I am more watchful (looking for cops) and more patient ("go ahead senior citizen and take your time. I am in the middle of a complex b part"). I play with passengers, too. They are a bit more concerned, but it is better for them then second hand smoke.
I have a great stealth black whistle. Great at night returning from the pub. but really, would a constable even suspect what I was doing??
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
Yes Joel, you've missed the thrill of speeding through Baltimore drunk on jigs and reels. It's a clear October night. 1995 or so... Hunter S Thompson is still living. You're in a rusted '76 Buick Century.Cream colored. Uglier than sin. No seatbelt or air bag. It's been a good night. The moon is full. You're on Pratt street by the harbor playing Scarce O' Tatties. Traffic is moving but now you come to a light. You practice some deep bends on high 'b' from a slow air you learned from an Altan CD you got in a Kmart discout bin for 2.75. The light changes and you're soon on I-83. You hit the interstate, speed up and roll into the Roscommon reel. The city races by, the wind is lashing you hair. Life is good. A small child steps into the road. You're concentrating on the whistle. The chid goes over the bonnet. The whistle goes through your throat. The child is dead. You are dead. Life is good eh?
Feardog: you're joking right?
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by McDermott
Re: Playing while driving
Nope. You worry too much. Accidents happen all the time. Most of them, perhaps none of them involve whistles. Drunk drivers are by far a bigger concern. Phones. Playing with the radio buttons. Changing CDs. Poorly maintained vehicles. Fluffy dice. Speeders.
Whistles are harmless. They help me, as pointed out above, drive safely.
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
Oh yea..second-hand smoke.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
'Whistles are harmless. They help me, as pointed out above, drive safely.'
This is insane. Is that what you would say in court if you were ever charged with death by dangerous driving? Do you play with both hands while driving? Do you really think it makes you a better driver? Because no one has been hurt yet by a whistle playing driver? Am I the victim of a mass prank here? Do you people really honestly believe that driving while playing a musical instrument is safe?
What about a drunk driver who has never had an accident? How would you respond to him if he told you it's perfectly safe to do so because he's never had an accident? Do you think that would be a good reason to continue?
I really do hope this is a wind-up. If not, I'm very glad that I don't live anywhere near to you.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by McDermott
Re: Playing while driving
I'm safe. I use both elbos.
I also put my tune list so that I can watch traffic and take my eyes off the road for mere seconds.
I am mystified why you don't think playing the whistle can help one drive. I am being serious here. I can name some more reasons it is helpful and less dangerous than, lets say, eating a hamburger or lighting up.
I wonder how many kids I HAVEN't run over because I have been playing my whistle while driving! Maybe it's because they hear me coming. See! Another advantage.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
Oh, and I don't play at redlights. Too conspicuous.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
I have to drive to pick up my wife now. That'll give me a moment to brush up on "Tinker's Daughter", which I learned a couple days ago on my way to work.
If you never hear from me again, it was nice knowing you in this life. Catch ya in the next.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
Do angels play hards while FLYING. That looks dangerous!
http://www.angel-guide.com/images/angels-picture-flying-angel-with-harp.jpg
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
Joel-How'd that child get on I-83 in Baltimore. It's a raised highway! Where's her parents for God's sake? There aught to be a law protecting us whistle playing drivers from the progeny of such careless parents! What's the world comming to....
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
Yes yes very clever. I live in the UK. You get my point though. This is all just horrible. I still hope this is all a joke, although it's not funny.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by McDermott
Re: Playing while driving
Would this thread be used as evidence in a court case?
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Playing while driving
I'll break my self-imposed exile just to say this. If you play an instrument whilst driving a car you are a complete arsehole and you deserve to lose your licence. A better man than I said that driving a car is a gig in itself and that should be enough for the moment for anyone.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: Playing while driving
Boy! Lighten up, dudes. I play whistle at traffic lights too.
Nate - hit by cars 7 times? I've been a bicycle commuter for
many years, in two countries. I was hit once - really sort of
nudged in the back tyre. I always keep in mind two principles
when I'm biking "might makes right" and ... umm .. how to you
put? Something about Newtonian physics and momentum ...
Anyway, don't give cars the opportunity to hit you.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by Hup
Re: Playing while driving
'Lighten up, dudes'? Is that what you say to victims of careless drivers? And yes you can cause accidents even when you're stationery at traffic lights, especially if you're doing something as moronic as playing a whistle at the wheel. Lighten up?
I'm finding this discussion really disturbing. Perhaps you should go and brag about your ability to play at the wheel at
http://www.familiesfightingcarelessdriving.com/
or
http://www.roadpeace.org/
I'm sure they'd be glad to hear from you.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by McDermott
Re: Playing while driving
Oh, Joel, get a life! It's a light-hearted discussion. Lighten up!
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by Mark Harmer
Re: Playing while driving
...now if someone's driving and playing WHILE READING THE DOTS then that's another matter!
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by Mark Harmer
Re: Playing while driving
I used to be able to hold my breath under water for just over 60 seconds, yet the longest I can drive with my eyes closed is about twenty seconds..of course it also depends on the speed I'm driving at when I try it!....
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by Free Reed
Re: Playing while driving
I see thousands of people driving like arseholes who are NOT playing whistles, who are NOT talking on the cell phones, who are NOT texting, eating, drinking, smoking etc etc....
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving me round the bend
Yes,there's loads of bad habits on the roads.So why not add a few more.
My light-hearted suggestion is one I heard a driving instructor mention on some programme a few years ago-and it's this:
A very sharp steel spike should be jutting from the hub of every steering wheel.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by biggus dave
Re: Playing while driving
Fantastic idea! As long as it's hollow, has six holes in it and is keyed to 'D'!
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
When I was a mail carrier, I drove up to a house which had a mail box by the road. I unstrapped my seat belt so that I could reach the box. Two little kids came out to get the mail. When they noted that I didn't have my seat belt on, they stood there and pointed at me and shreaked loadly over and over in a wierd, unnerving chant "Brain damage! Brain damage! Brain damage! Brain damage! ". It was so freaky I remember it clearly so many years later.
This thread reminded me of that freakish overreaction. There must be more to this than meets the eye. Some unnamed phobia. Maybe I can get some of Obama's stimulas money and do reseach.
Good point, hup, about being hit 7 times on a bike. Maybe some individuals riding a bike are more dangerous than others playing a whistle while driving. I wonder how many accidents happen because drivers are avoiding careless cyclists.
Has anyone read the "Families against careless drivers" site? They want to throw you in jail for six months to two years and fining you $5,000 for not "checking a blindspot" or "following too closely".
There is a morbid poem on the homepage that Joel maybe could set to music.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
Yes, it should be blindingly obvious to everyone that a motor vehicle is not, say, a shopping cart--it can become a deadly weapon, in less time than it takes to think about it. Sadly, many drivers don't seem to understand that.
Sure, you can joke (my favorite: "Don't drink and drive; you might hit a bump and spill the whole thing") but I don't think it's a good idea to encourage careless driving. Especially in an online chat room where you can't judge the ability of everybody to understand that you're only joking. Kids (i.e., teenagers) might read some of this and decide to try it.
Bottom line, driving a car is serious business. Plenty of people have died because somebody was careless behind the wheel, followed too closely, didn't check their blind spot, etc., and that's no joke. Something that can kill you--or somebody else--demands respect.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by John Galt
Re: Playing while driving
I'm still chuckling to my self at the possible reactions of 99% of drivers seeing Fiddlechick's suggested bumper sticker saying "Caution: High D on board."
"Dude, we're following a rap star!"
"Don't drive too close to this one, Mabel. Must be druggies in the car."
"...?..."
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by mjct
Re: Playing while driving
'Oh, Joel, get a life! It's a light-hearted discussion. Lighten up!'
Phew thanks Mark. I thought that these people really were driving around like dangerous morons playing the whistle at the same time. I'm glad to hear it's just a light-hearted thing and that this is not happening. The streets are safe again. Could have sworn some of those posts were serious though.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by McDermott
Re: Playing while driving
Sure Shanty there are plenty of different ways to drive like an areshole, so if you honestly play a musical instrument while sriving you have plenty of fellow areshole friends.
Sure you know what you are doing, can handle it and are safe. Just like all those drunk drivers said. Every bit as safe as them.
- chris
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: Playing while driving
Ignore my last post -- I just read feardog's last post about the 'morbid' poem. The poem at http://www.familiesfightingcarelessdriving.com/ was written on behalf of people who are killed by people who do not pay attention when they are driving. To mock it like you are doing is disgusting. Make fun of me all you like, but don't disrespect the memory of people who are killed by idiots.
I agree with Chris. If you drive and play and instrument at the same time you are no less of an idiot than a drunk driver. Gary Farmer: you should be ashamed of yourself.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by McDermott
Share the road
It may be worth noting ~ the YouTube I posted was shown to me by a friend who does not drive & rides her bicycle everywhere she goes.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Playing while driving
'Has anyone read the "Families against careless drivers" site? They want to throw you in jail for six months to two years and fining you $5,000 for not "checking a blindspot" or "following too closely".'
Gary Farmer: don't twist and misrepresent what you have read. Families Against Careless Drivers are not proposing this at all. They want these sanctions to be imposed on people who cause DEATH by careless driving. This is the text from their website:
'Our proposed change for Canada would also involve a new law implemented called “careless driving causing death”. It is broken down into 3 sections as well:
Careless driving causing death when there was definite speeding involved or running red lights or weaving back and forth between lanes or cutting cars off, i.e. very close to the current charge of dangerous driving
1 year minimum – 3 year prison sentence and 3 year driving suspension and $10,000 fine
Careless driving causing death where evidence supports there was speeding involved or running red lights and/or not adhering to basic rules of road, i.e. not checking blindspot, following too closely
6 month minimum – 2 year prison sentence and 4 year driving suspension and $5000 fine
Careless driving causing death where the person was following the basic rules of the road, but unfortunately had momentary inattention, i.e. looked away for a quick moment.
0 - 6 month prison sentence and 5 year driving suspension and $5000 fine'
If you cause a death by playing the whistle at the wheel, do you think that these sanctions should apply to you?
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by McDermott
~
If I ever cause anyone's death with a vehicle I would drive again.
I swear this, regardless of whether I was distracted or not.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by Ben Steen
~
sorry for that, meant to type . . . I would not drive again.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Playing while driving
Why wait to apply the sanctions until after these careless actions cause a death? Do it now. All the lives that can be saved!
Oh No! Fear dearg is exposed! His real name is GARY FARMER!!! That joel is so much more clever than he comes across on this site to be able to research that out! oh, wait a minute...he got that from my profile.
I am against unsfe driving. I just don't think playing the whistle while driving constitutes such.
Get over it.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
That's amusing. I've never met a drunk driver that thought they were unsafe either.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by TaoCat
Re: Playing while driving
Well, there it is. Another poor analogy. Drinking impairs the thought process and perceptions. Drunks think they are funny, talented, etc as well. Have you never known an alcoholic that knows he is unsafe as a driver when he is sober?
The whistle enlivens the mind
Nice try, tho. Well, maybe not.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
That is, a sober drunk who knows he drives poorly when he drinks.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
You won't meet anyone who thinks themselves an unsafe driver. Yet people are in accidents all the time. I imagine there's many people involved in multiple accidents over the course of thier life. You'd do far better making the world safe by getting thosepeople off the road than picking on a handful of tin whistle players.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
But it is not just feadearg's opinion. Stand by to be amazed as he cites numerous studies that challange the counterintuitive notion that doing something else while driving is actually safer. Gasp as he reveals numerous professional drivers and driving instructors that advise playing instruments, putting on makeup, talking on the cell phone...all will make you a better, safer driver. We will be humbled by your scientific genius.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by TaoCat
Re: Playing while driving
Random-How could you 'cause' someones death while driving. If you're paying attention you should have no problems. If a person steps out in front of you, giving you no time to react, it's not your fault is it? you didn't 'cause it-they did. If the car malfuntions, breaks fail etc...still not your fault. I don't believe there are 'accidents'. Someone makes a mistake. Things don't 'just happen' So again....if you are paying attention I doubt you'll ever 'cause' anyone's death with your car.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
I can't imagine doing anything that would take both hands off the wheel, but have played the harmonica in the past on quiet stretches of highway. This thread has made me think twice about that practice. Rather sobering, epecially the comments that no one thinks that their driving is impared, even drunks......
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by AlBrown
Thanks shanty
I appreciate your concern. This is simply my way. I take responsibility for my actions.* From a legal standpoint your rationale is valid.
Having dealt with a handful of legal situation I know how important it is to review the events carefully. At the end of the day though; my peace of mind, & that of others, is more important than anything else.
* here's my pecking order
if my vehicle weighs more & goes faster than yours I yield to you & cut a wide berth:
cars yield to bicycles, etc.
bicycles yield to pedestrians
everyone yields to baby carriages . . .
The real question, "is it O.K. to allow your baby to play whistle while laying in said carriage?"
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by Ben Steen
Grim driving story
Al, I know someone who hit a pedestrian (drinking & driving)
The pedestrian did not sustain injury & the police did not give my friend a breathalyzer. A couple of weeks later he explained to me what happened. He spent at least one half hour trying to figure out how to adjust his passenger side mirror so that it did not produce a blindspot. He insists he never saw the fellow because the mirror obstructed his view.
I am sure something else was effecting his ability to see the man.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Playing while driving
The fact that there are thousands of ways of being an unsafe driver does not make any one of them acceptable through being deemed "less dangerous" than the others.
I have just experimented and discovered that playing a whistle with my tongue in my cheek adds nothing to my proficiency so I assume all these posts are genuine. Shame on you. I agree with Joel completely.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by Slightly Mad Scientist
Re: Playing while driving
I am certainly not suggesting that one unsafe activity is better than the other. You're missing my point. Many things we do in life take a certain amount of skill. This is quite clear in music. Some are better than others. Driving is a skill. Some are better than others. If you are unable to change the radio while driving you should not attempt it. If you can't sip a soda from a straw while driving you shouldn't do it. If you are unable to chat with the fellow sitting next to you without posing a risk to to yourself and those around you then shut up and drive. If you can't talk on a cell phone and drive without forgetting that you are in command of a large dangerous vehicle don't do it and...if you don't think you are able to play tin whistle and safely drive PLEASE don't try it.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
To further illustrate the point look at older drivers. They have a crash per mile rate equal to teens. The lady that hit me in my 'one and only' accident was an elderly lady. Seniors are certainly not engaging in any 'distracted' driving activities (she was not playing tin whistle), yet, statisticly they are a high risk group.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
No Shanty, you miss the point. The laws against what is illegal to do whilst driving are made by statistical analysis. They deliberatly eschew, for good reason, what any individual thinks they are safe doing.
Over that last 10 years or so, a great many people have lost their lives in accidents involving mobile phone use. The practice was banned. It's as simple as that. If anyone is arrogant enough to think that they are better drivers than the average, and that they can quite safely drive whilst using their moble phone, they should, and will, be prosecuted. end of story.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Playing while driving
Playing the whistle while driving takes little more, perhaps a lot less, than singing while driving.
Mobile phone use is dangerous and should be banned.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
llig-Not banned in theUS. Some places have made local laws but no federal law banning cell phone use. The statistics link cell phone use to a low percentage of accidents here. Given that there's 300 million of us crawling around between Canada and Mexico that's a lot of accidents but the statistical percentage is less than 10 percent.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
Um, playing the whistle requires both hands to be off the bloody steering wheel, which to me is WORSE than using a mobile phone since you can have one or both hands on the whilst using a phone. So while I agree that it's not a particularly good idea to use a mobile phone and drive, at least you have some reasonable control over the vehicle. I don't care how good a "knee driver" you think you are. There is no way anyone has the same amount of control with their knees as they do with their hands.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Playing while driving
Oh and llig a lot of laws are pushed by a need for votes. That's why cell phones are likely to be banned yet seniors will retain thier licenses. Seniors vote. And in the public's eye cell phones are objects of derision.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
I drive with my wrist.
Playing the whistle requires almost no concentration. I read the news, watch TV, and, in my last job, and the one before that, worked while playing the whistle. I know that when I have used a cell phone while driving (rare. I used to pull over to talk) my concentration was on the conversation. I scared myself while on the cell phone.
Steering is the only issue worth considering here.
You know you can play and think at the same time. Here you are playing a complicated tune all the while thinking what would be a good tune to go into, what key that tune is in, and what rhythm. You are thinking about where you learned that tune and who you have played it with. You are thinking about refills, rosin, and that cute thing at the bar and thinking thoughts about the friendship and aggravations of your fellow players. Again, while playing at lightning speed.
I know there have been threads on falling asleep while playing, closing your eyes, looking down, reading spots. If you are a whistler who does this, don't drive and play.
So loss of concentration on driving safely while driving and playing is not an issue if you have the tune in muscle memory.
# Posted on August 29th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
feardearg, you are absolutely, completely wrong about this.
All issues of paying attention aside--and many studies indicate that "multi-tasking" consistently causes inferior performance at both or several tasks--if you are driving while keeping your mouth glued to the whistle, and using both hands for fingering, you cannot have adequate control of your car. You can't turn your head to check the blind spot before changing lanes, or to look both ways at intersections. You can't turn the wheel quickly enough to dodge a sudden obstacle ahead of you. You aren't in a good posture to maintain control if somebody else bumps into you, or some other unexpected event happens.
So just drive like a responsible grown-up from now on, OK?
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by John Galt
Re: Playing while driving
Actualy I rest both arms on thewheel with the whistle over top. I'm not 'knee driving'.
and some people, look at your job sites, can 'multi task' better than others can 'single task'.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
feardearg3-'Playing the whistle requires almost no concentration. I read the news, watch TV...'
Cool! You got a TV in your car too!
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
I have never heard of any reputable professional driver state that it was safe to do anything other than driving while you're piloting a vehicle. All studies seem to agree that there is some loss of concentration, even when the participants didn't notice this loss. Perhaps you have something scientific, some proof that you can offer us that you're safe doing this?
I confess to playing the harmonica when my car is stopped. But it goes in the passenger seat when I am moving at any speed.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by TaoCat
Re: Playing while driving
shanty, read my last post carefully. Forearms won't cut it, in an emergency. And emergencies can happen in an instant, when you're on the highway. You can't assume that you will have time to put the whistle down, and then grab the wheel. Save the multi-tasking for office work, where you won't kill somebody by not reacting fast enough.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by John Galt
Re: Hubris
I'm wondering what a lawyer would make of all this should any of the above whistle-playing drivers ever be involved in an accident.But that could never happen,could it?
Thank god we don't live in litigious countries like the UK and the USA.
Btw,you would n't mind if I fitted a big spike to your steering wheel then?I don't mind if it has six holes either;just so long as it's very,very,very sharp.And I don't mean pitch.
Nothing to do with whistle playing but I was driving down Millbank about an hour ago and there was the aftermath of what looked to have been a serious accident involving a car and a motorbike.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by biggus dave
Re: Playing while driving
"So just drive like a responsible grown-up from now on, OK?"
Ok.
Shanty, you crack me up.
TaoCat, playing while your car is stopped. Thanks for the confession but Joel says...
"And yes you can cause accidents even when you're stationery at traffic lights, especially if you're doing something as moronic as playing a whistle at the wheel. "
"loss of concentration" you say. Well, have you ever pulled into a parking lot at work or a driveway at home and was shocked that you got there almost on auto-pilot and were surprised that you were there already and don't remember making any of the turns (I hope someone has had this experience or I am in deeper do-do than before)? Concentration was non-existant. But you got there safely.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
"Perhaps you have something scientific, some proof that you can offer us that you're safe doing this?"
Maybe Joel can do research on my driving record. It's perfect. No tickets. No accidents. All the dents on my vehicles were put there by my non-whistling wife. Been playing the recorder and then the whistle since my mid twenties. I am 54 now. You would think a complete moron like me would have tickets and smashups and pedestrian murders on my record.
I rest my case.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
feardearg, you have just been lucky. So far.
I still think you should straighten up and fly right.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by John Galt
Re: Playing while driving
There's already more than enough bad habits to cause all sorts of chaos on the roads.
But there's always something that can be added to make life that little more on the edge.
'Concentration was non-existant. But you got there safely. '
Yes,you got there safely because nothing unexpected happened and we're all thankful for it.But when you're in this state of mind your reaction is impaired.
I know that state quite well-I've sometimes played two pages of a score completely on automatic pilot.Usually with no disasters but if something unusual were to happen on stage then I would be stymied.
And yes,I have had that same experience whislt driving and it's a nasty feeling when you realise what's happened.
Btw,I use 'you' in the general sense.I can't bring myself to ever use 'one'.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by biggus dave
Re: HUBRIS
'Maybe Joel can do research on my driving record. It's perfect. No tickets. No accidents. All the dents on my vehicles were put there by my non-whistling wife. Been playing the recorder and then the whistle since my mid twenties. I am 54 now. You would think a complete moron like me would have tickets and smashups and pedestrian murders on my record.
I rest my case.'
Sorry,I was writing when the above was posted and I was n't aware that you are such a paragon when it comes to driving.An ipsissimus even.
My driving record is squeaky clean too-no fines,no accidents.
Does this mean I'm an exemplary driver incapable of causing an accident?
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by biggus dave
Re: Playing while driving
No Biggus but why not harrass people causing the problem. Insurance companies classify a group of people as 'high risk' drivers based on, and for good reason, past performance. These are the folks with multiple accidents,speeding tickets,DUI arrests etc etc....I think they are the withches you all need to burn....
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
"And yes,I have had that same experience whislt driving and it's a nasty feeling when you realise what's happened."
Why nasty? This is the beauty of the human mind. Had a cat ran out in front of your car, you would have stopped. You weren't unconcious, just on "cruise control".
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Work And Contemplation - Elizabeth Barrett Browning
The woman singeth at her spinning-wheel
A pleasant chant, ballad or barcarolle;
She thinketh of her song, upon the whole,
Far more than of her flax; and yet the reel
Is full, and artfully her fingers feel
With quick adjustment, provident controul,
The lines, too subtly twisted to unroll,
Out to a perfect thread.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
We can concentrate and excel on many things at once.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
"Sorry, ... I wasn't aware that you are such a paragon when it comes to driving."
Understandable. I try not to broadcast this little character snippet. You are forgiven, friend.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
"My driving record is squeaky clean too-no fines,no accidents.
Does this mean I'm an exemplary driver incapable of causing an accident?"
No, just that you consistantly do nothing unsafe. Like me.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
Lovely poem-I did n't know that one.
But I still feel you're risking it by pulling on fate's todger.
Anyway,I've waffled on too much so tata for now!
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by biggus dave
Re: Playing while driving
The downside of a car accident can be much greater than some mis-twisted thread.
If you damage somebody's property, or injure them, or kill them because you didn't have your hands on the steering wheel, or didn't look both ways at an intersection, or couldn't control your car during an unexpected emergency... oh forget it. You obviously prefer denial. I just hope you stay lucky, for everybody else's sake.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by John Galt
Re: Playing while driving
So, while you offer no evidence other than nothing untoward has occurred so far, you believe yourself perfectly justified. There are people that drive drunk for years without wrecking. That is a statistical anomaly, not evidence.
Nobody in their right mind would advise taking their hands off the wheel and engaging in another activity while driving. The fact that nothing has happened yet is not evidence that it is safe. But it's clear that you will hold on to your opinion regardless of facts against it.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by TaoCat
Re: Playing while driving
Thanks for an interesting thread. Goodnight, all.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
Coming in late to this thread, but was reminded of a remark I once heard about distracted driving:
"One interesting thing to do is, while you're driving down a straight stretch of road, just close your eyes for about six or seven seconds. Chances are, you can do this many times, and nothing bad is going to happen. Does that mean it's safe?"
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by fuzzygreen
Re: Playing while driving
But what about if I'm reading the dots whilst driving? Is this also considered multitasking?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_SqhhJb_P3Kk/SVlPAQIx2MI/AAAAAAAAD-Y/6tVwG1H0A58/s1600-h/music+school+score.jpg
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by Lint - upon - Tweed
Re: Playing while driving
I seem to recall our own Ptarmigan relating a story about pulling into a lay-by on the A90 many years ago, late one night, and having to play a tune on the concertina as he'd had it going in his head and couldn't remember a couple of notes. It was a cold night and the windows steamed up a bit - and with the interior light being on, and him obviously fiddling about with something around groin level - what must that have looked like?
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by Ron P
Re: Playing while driving
"But what about if I'm reading the dots whilst driving? Is this also considered multitasking?"
The point of difference is that just playing does not require your attention to be taken away from driving. Dots, cellphones, radio buttons, make-up, GPS, eating, etc all do.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
The State of Utah is taking a very tough line on texting when driving (and by implication anything else that is a distraction):
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/29/technology/29distracted.html?_r=1&ref=technology&pagewanted=all
I don't like having music - any kind of music - in the car when I'm driving; I find it too distracting. The same goes for radio.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Playing while driving
"I don't like having music - any kind of music - in the car when I'm driving; I find it too distracting. The same goes for radio."
This is another extreme.
I suspect differences in personality or mental abilities or driving style and preferences is behind our disagreement.
Perhaps even diffences in the picture each of our minds conjure up when we think "road" has disturbed some.
http://tinyurl.com/kppwy4
http://tinyurl.com/nn6hhl
http://tinyurl.com/lduod6
http://tinyurl.com/nm3d77
http://tinyurl.com/nl5d58
http://tinyurl.com/mw6vlr
http://tinyurl.com/l2hvzz
Joel's hometown traffic:
http://tinyurl.com/lf9dqn
I couldn't find any pics of roads I drive.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
The State of Utah is taking a very tough line on texting when driving (and by implication anything else that is a distraction).
Actually, you can dial a cell phone and talk while driving. You just can't text. There is no further implication.
Besides, whistling isn't a distraction.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
"I couldn't find any pics of roads I drive."
No problem. Why don't you just take pictures through your windscreen, preferably whilst driving fast (they'd look more exciting with all that blurring). And, if you needed to change your lens, no need to stop! I bet you can do it blindfolded! You could even switch memory cards or load a new film on the go!
"...just playing does not require your attention to be taken away from driving..."
Wow! you must be a brilliant whistle player then! I still wouldn't want you at our session though. You might get killed on the way here, and,even if you made it all the way, we do like people to give their full attention to their playing, which you clearly don't.
"I suspect differences in personality or mental abilities or driving style and preferences is behind our disagreement."
Meaning, I assume, that you think have greater powers in these departments that the posters who are demurring. Who told you had? Perhaps one day, whilst the fire brigade are cutting you out of your wreck, you'd be good enough to play them a little tune on your whistle to keep them entertained. If it isn't buried half-way down your throat, that is.
In other words, sheesh.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: Playing while driving
Who told you you had.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: Playing while driving
I guess if I was cut in little pieces going thru the windshield it would give a new meaning to "parting glass".
A wild assumption, Steve. I make no claims of superiority. Certainly not of being a brilliant whistle player.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
It's just that you are clearly so superior a whistle -player that you do it second-nature and don't need to concentrate at all, by the sound of it, and that you are clearly so superior a driver that you do it second-nature and don't need to concentrate on that at all either. By the sound of it. Only going off what you've said.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: Playing while driving
I am probably towards the other end of the spectrum when it comes to being distracted by music.
The worst case was when I was sitting professional finals in London, and the London Symphony Orchestra was rehearsing a Brahms symphony loud and clear in the hall downstairs. I wasn't the only one to complain afterwards, but nothing could be done about it. Fortunately, the orchestra wasn't there for the remainder of the week.
And if you're wondering - yes, I did pass (just).
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Playing while driving
I suppose it all depends how busy our lives are. Sometimes I am so busy that the only time I get to myself to practice guitar is when I am in the car going from place to place.
As long as I put the seat back as far as it goes I can fit the guitar in fine between myself and the stearing wheel. Put a good cd on the player and I can practice accompaniment to my heart's content. It certainly helps to relieve the boredom of a long journey. Of course I would only do it on long, relatively straight roads like a motorway or the A9. Doing it when driving past a primary school would just be silly, certainly after the last time. Still a lesson learned the hard way is a lesson never forgotten.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Playing while driving
Congratulations on passing, lazyhound! Do you find it a distraction in noisy pubs or beginner players who may not be right on in rhythm or note? Or sports on the Large screen?
Wonderful hyperbole, NCFA. Great humour device. Not so good in making a point.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
I beg to disagree. 'Tis you who couldn't see a good point if it hit you between the eyes. Which your whistle may well do one of these days.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: Playing while driving
I saw the point even while I am eating a pumpkin pie, entertaining my parrot and listening to Bach while typing on the mustard board. I am also considering the weather (I plan to take the dog for a walk) and wondering if I have time to practice before the session this afternoon. I just scratched my head as I read over what I just typed.
I must be a genius to be able to do all these things at simultaneously.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
All well and good, feardearg--but none of those things can kill you, or somebody else, in an instant. Driving a car is not like those things. Driving a car can kill you, or somebody else, in the blink of an eye, if you are not prepared (both mentally and physically) to deal with a sudden hazard. Wake up and smell the coffee.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by John Galt
Re: Playing while driving
OK
I don't recommend driving and whistling or cell phoning or texting..
But I did, however, work out some really cool variousions of Humours Of Tullycrine driving back from the dog park.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
Well, when your luck runs out and you're being sued for everything you've got, don't come crying to me.
http://voices.injuryboard.com/automobile-accidents/distracted-drivingdanger-on-our-roads-watch-out-for-the-bagpipe-guy.aspx?googleid=268272
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by John Galt
Re: Playing while driving
People assume I play whistle while driving because I keep a whistle in the front seat of my truck. In the past I have given in to this temptation.
I recognize the safety concern & choose not to play with other people's life's.
These are the circumstances when I play.
- in parking lots ~ after I come out of a store I will play what I heard on the store radio.
- at a stoplight, the stick in neutral, my foot on the brake. Once the light changes I put the whistle down.
Playing while driving certainly isn't for the music. It is simply a cheap thrill. If one uses it to stave off boredom then, by definition, it is a distraction (from the task of driving).
In California the law regarding cellphones initially reduced their use. It is slowly creeping back up. People love their gadgets.
The Department of Motor Vehicles has this to say about distractions,
"Driving is a skill that requires your full attention to safely control your vehicle and respond to events happening on the roads around you.
Driving involves constant and complex coordination between your mind and body.
Events or things that prevent you from operating your car safely are distractions.
There are three types of distractions and they are anything that takes your:
* eyes off the road (visual).
* mind off the road (cognitive).
* hands off the steering wheel (manual).
When you think about the actions you make in your vehicle, other than just driving, you can see that they often involve more than one type of distraction.
For instance, if you change your radio station, you take a hand off the steering wheel to press a button, and take your eyes off the road to
look at what button you want to press."
drive safe, share the road.
;)
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Playing while driving
I'm a driving instructor. I was planning to comment, but I don't know where to start.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by oldstrings
Re: Playing while driving
Well, feardreag, you've taught me a valuable lesson. I should be allowed to shoot my deer rifle right in the city, seeing how close I can come to people without hitting them. After all, it's just nonsense to assume it's dangerous. I haven't hit anybody so far, and it shouldn't be a crime 'til I wound or kill somebody.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by TaoCat
Re: Playing while driving
The only comfort I get from reading this is knowing that most of those drivers are not in the same country as I am. I hope that those that live with these potential killers find a way to control them.
Then again nobody could be that stupid, so it's all a wind-up.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by All Moldy
Re: Playing while driving
The only thing that could possibly make this thread even remotely funny would be if someone from the Darwin Awards made a x-ref to it.
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Playing while driving
llig The problem with that is that most of the Darwin Awards, although funny, are fake. The stuff didn't really happen or the details were changed to make them funny. That is the problem with this dreary thread. A lot of people chasing phantoms
taocat --you say' The fact that nothing has happened yet is not evidence that it is safe'.
huh?
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
Shanty- Some people can smoke their whole lives without getting lung cancer. This does not indicate that smoking is safe, merely that they dodge a statistical bullet. A single person's belief that they are safe doing an activity because it hasn't caused them any harm is the same justification that street racers and smokers use. It is a denial of the actual facts.
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by TaoCat
Re: Playing while driving
Shoot-out on the edge of Durham late on Saturday.
Two vehicles plus drivers involved: one car rolled over, driver injured and caught by police, the other was caught out of town soon after.
Having their tiff practically outside the local police headquarters was not very bright of them.
Perhaps it wasn't on the Sat Nav.
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by nicholas
Re: Playing while driving
No one has looked at the facts. The fact is that 'Cell Phone' use, the nearest statistic we could use to represent whistle playing while driving, although it may not be a good comparison, is responsable for less than 10 percent of accidents. AGAIN if you just look at 'high risk' drivers they cause, factually and statistically more accidents than the cell phone group and most certainly the whistle group.
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
And ya know what? I haven't been rude to anyone on here but all you safety minded individuals, with no facts other than that you 'think' it's unsafe, have been pretty rude and stupid. It seems like you'd be the same crowd hanging witches, Killing 'Indians', looking for commies, hiding from Y2k, banning books, banning Halloween, Looking for subliminal messages.....
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
see ya
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
Fact: Driving with no hands on the steering wheel is illegal everywhere, for good reason. Saying that somebody else is "more dangerous" does not change that fact.
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by John Galt
Re: Playing while driving
The facts have been looked at. Regardless of one's own self-appraisal, driving while distracted is dangerous. There are other dangerous drivers as well. This does not mean that we should ignore idiots playing instruments, talking on cell phones, applying makeup, texting or anything else.
This is ridiculous. Google is your friend. Self-appraisal of one's own skill and risk is notoriously faulty. Buy a clue.
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by TaoCat
Re: Playing while driving
And if you think we're rude, just wait until you hit somebody because you were concentrating on that tricky B part....
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by John Galt
Re: Playing while driving
Jaysus, Durham's turned into an exciting wee place since I left. And Glasgow is so dull in comparison.....
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Fact check ~
"Fact: Driving with no hands on the steering wheel is illegal everywhere . . . " Except for people who are permitted to use a foot steering device.
Speaking of gadgetry, here is something in the high end market:
http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/18539
"BERKELEY – The thought of a bus moving along city streets while its driver has both hands off the wheel is alarming.
But a special bus introduced today (Friday, Sept. 5), steered not by a driver, but by a magnetic guidance system developed by engineers at the University of California, Berkeley, performed with remarkable precision. "
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Playing while driving
"No, I'm not an amputee. But you see, Mr. Driving Examiner, I need a permit to use that foot-steering gadget so I can play my tinwhistle while driving."
Oh yeah, sure, they'll go for that.
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by John Galt
Re: Playing while driving
Some people will deny anything and everything. Here we go:
"The fact is that 'Cell Phone' use, the nearest statistic we could use to represent whistle playing while driving, although it may not be a good comparison, is responsable for less than 10 percent of accidents. "
The fact is that 15 years ago cellphone use was responsible for nought percent of accidents. I make that an increase of, er, well, infinity...
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by Steve Shaw
Hands free whistling (hmmm . . . )
Too true, Forrest. You probably wouldn't want to install something just to be able to play whistle & drive.
Modified steering devices tend to be pricey & then there is the maintenance. Not to mention the special instruction required.
Best to pucker up & whistle ~ instrument free.
cheers ;)
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Playing while driving
Shanty reminds me of the kind of person who refuses to wear a seat belt because they think it would hinder them getting out of the car if they accidentally drove into a lake.
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Playing while driving
I've been driving on the SoCal freeway system for ages and I've seen just about everything, stuff like a guy reading the newspaper propped up on the steering wheel with a cup of coffee in one hand and shaving himself with the other hand.
Heck-some cars have TVs mounted on the dashboard and I've seen people watching those while going 80mph down the freeway.
I did have a bagpiper friend who would get dressed in his kilts, kilt-hose, ghillies, etc and then warm up his pipes by playing them a bit all while driving at 90mph to the funeral he was about to perform at. He was only in one accident in his life, rearended by an old lady while stopped.
In the past I played whistle while driving but no more. I only play when the vehicle is stopped.
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by Richard D Cook
Re: Playing while driving
Perspective, people.
Alcohol will kill and ruin more drinkers and other people, destroy families, and ruin the lives of countless innocent children. I haven't seen a thread here that attacks booze with the same ferocity as this one on playing tunes while driving. You laugh at booze threads.
Of course, alcohol isn't and won't be YOUR problem.
Get a grip.
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
Never said alcohol was good, feardog. Just that whistling and driving is bad, despite your amazingly high opinion of yourself. Stop building straw men.
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by TaoCat
Re: Playing while driving
Lol
nice try feardearg, but it is difficult to do anything but laugh at your latest arguement. You find the thread where anyone laughed at drink-driving and maybe you'll be taken seriously.
As for the nonsense about cell phones only being resposible for "less than 10 percent" of driving accidents. That is frankly meaningless in the absense of data on how big a percentage of dreiving time is spent ont he cell phone.
e.g. if 80% of all driving time was spent on cell phones and they caused 10% of accidents then it would look like being on a phone actually improved safety.
e.g. If on the other hand 0.1% of total driving time was spent by drivrs on the phone and they caused 10% of accidents then you would be 100x more likely to be in an accident when on the phone than otherwise.
- chris
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: Playing while driving
It's no good using statistics. Feardreag knows he is safe driving and playing, despite a mountain of evidence and overwhelming opinion against him. His gut instinct will trump any evidence, because he wants to believe that it is all a bunch of do-good liberals trying to tell him what to do. Not that it is a group of people hearing about somebody doing something pretty stupid and being proud of it, and trying to point out: "hey, that's kinda stupid!"
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by TaoCat
Re: Playing while driving
like I said earlier, I've been hit by cars 7 times on my bicycle
and I'm getting too old to take much more of it, so could you please just watch where you are driving?
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by Nate Ryan
Re: Playing while driving
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0OUXkZO8vE
Maybe Feardearg is actually Glenn Beck!
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Playing while driving
I've seen this thread pop up, but just now read the whole thing... Two words come to mind, "ego" and "fool."
Totally unbelievable.
Whatever happened to practicing through lilting the tune (humming it? I may not be using that word correctly), or hearing it in your head and feeling it in your fingers, WHILE THEY ARE ON THE STEERING WHEEL?
This has got to be a wind-up. The arguments presented by those that approve of playing while driving are illogical, and totally based on ego. Using statistics won't help, anyone can twist numbers to tell whatever story they want.
This is just too stupid.
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by wyogal
Re: Playing while driving
And besides the safety issue, which should of course be enough on it's own, surely you should give 100% concentration to you playing.
I'm fed up with hearing people playing whilst not concentrating. It's boring and crap music.
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Playing while driving
There is no try, only do.
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by Ben Steen
Road Peace
Joel, thanks for the reference to RoadPeace;
http://www.roadpeace.org/index.asp?PageID=13
I missed the link on my 1st reading. Fortunately I clicked it on a second read through.
The site has a very good concern with great help & information.
Cheers!
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Playing while driving
It's impossible to really use statistics in this argument, because there isn't enough "whistling whilst driving data"... But if playing whistle while driving was as commonplace as cell phone usage, I'm sure there would be very specific laws against it.
Having said that, I have played music on road trips before (thankfully not while I was driving). And on a recent trip, I did teach a tune to the driver, who learned it by ear, and was able to reproduce it on an instrument as soon as the trip was done.
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by Reverend
Re: Playing while driving
Probably better than relying on driving & accident data is the use of simulated conditions. This way you can measure reaction time with various types of distraction.
This must be the longest thread with the least amount of connection to Irish music.
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Playing while driving
While I was driving today I was contemplating the mechanics of holding the steering wheel with your wrists or forearms. When the car was sitting still, I tried holding the steering wheel in the aforesaid manner and pretended I was playing a whistle. Awkward! I concluded that you pretty much have no control of the car while doing this and it is an extremely stupid idea. It doesn't matter if you *only* do it on a straight road. Even on the straightest of roads there might be times when you have to quickly maneuver the vehicle.
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Playing while driving
“Probably better than relying on driving & accident data is the use of simulated conditions. This way you can measure reaction time with various types of distraction.”
And this has been done with phones and some other multi-task distractions. The results were scary. Driving while talking on the phone, even hands-free, appears to be about as risky as driving drunk.
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by Bob himself
Re: Playing while driving
I was once a passenger in a car where the driver was breaking up with his girlfriend on the mobile phone. While driving through New York City, no less! I was not impressed.
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Playing while driving
I feel so misunderstood.
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
Silver spear, Mrs. Dearg agrees with you. This thread has caused some domestic, ah, unrest.
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
Unfortunately for you, you are only too well understood.
# Posted on September 1st 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: Playing while driving
"The only thing that could possibly make this thread even remotely funny would be if someone from the Darwin Awards made a x-ref to it."
DITTO!
# Posted on September 1st 2009 by GDub
Re: Musical steering wheel - problem solved
what about a Trad steering wheel. using a converted concertina.. Or indeed 6 electronic pressure pads in a similar configuration to the whistle with some sort of audio output.. take it to extremes and mount speakers on your roof...
# Posted on September 1st 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Playing while driving
Vorsprung durch Technik
# Posted on September 1st 2009 by Miss Mulligan
FidKid challenge
Look, I thought this thread would die a natural death....but it lives on!
Here's the deal. Fidkid, a good friend and someone you all have come to admire and trust, who can testify that I am not some nutcase but a sober, serious sort who loves and cares for all people, will volunteer to be my passenger at rush hour at Haggery and eight mile and maybe up I-275 since it is near and the interchange to I-96 west. He will observe my technique and report back. Do you need video, too?
What do you say, Joe. Lets show 'em!
# Posted on September 1st 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
Um, sure what the heck. Hockahey.
Can I be drunk?
# Posted on September 2nd 2009 by fidkid
Re: Playing while driving
No need, there's already a similar video out there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF0_7qC6YFo
# Posted on September 2nd 2009 by John Galt
Re: Playing while driving
"Can I be drunk?"
And wear a helmet!
# Posted on September 2nd 2009 by GDub
Re: Playing while driving
Forest, What a video. Mics comments:
I. First of all, there was bound to be an accident. Everyone was driving on the wrong side of the road.
II. had that young lady been playing the whistle a) her eyes would have been on the road b) she would not have been talking because i) you can't talk and play ii) everyone would have gotten out of the car beforehand.
III. The person coming the other way, had they been playing the whistle, their eyes would have been on the road and would have avoided the texter.
IV. Had the person who hit them last been playing the whistle, their eyes would have been on the road and they would not have delivered the deadly crash.
In conclusion, the argumentum ad video really doesn't prove anything. If it did, the following video would prove how dangerous convertables are:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uedVpHeNO34
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
I just figure you will eventually end up like one of the cars that hit those girls
Because nobody can steer well enough, with only forearms on the wheel, to get through a typical emergency situation like that.
You're kidding yourself, if you think otherwise.
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by John Galt
*
I watched the collision very carefully.
So I am wondering how you came to the conclusion that point # 3 is true, feardearg?
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Playing while driving
Well, random, at least you see the other points. That's a start.
The texter eased over into the other lane. Anyone paying attention would have seen that.
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
Anyone not paying attention to their whistle playing
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Playing while driving
feardearg, I'm trying to take baby steps (w/your *reasoning* ) because you're not catching on.
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Playing while driving
Thank you, random. I appreciate the extra attention.
I think the two issues are:
1) whistles take so much attention that there wouldn't be enough paid to driving.
2) Even if enough attention was paid to driving, because both hands aren't on the wheel, one wouldn't be able to react in emergency.
Both are the points worth debate.
Not everyone can dictate 9 letters to 9 secretaries simultaneously like Napoleon, or hum be next tune in the set while playing. Some can, some can't. If you can't drive and play, don't.
Not everyone is a skilled driver able to anticipate emergencies. If you can't, don't play and drive.
Not everyone has power steering. if you can't make minor turns with your wrist or knee, don't play and drive.
In fact, I don't recommend playing and driving. It is a skill I have developed over decades. Most drivers I know could not/should not do it.
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
“The person coming the other way, had they been playing the whistle, their eyes would have been on the road and would have avoided the texter.”
People talking on the phone while driving have their eyes on the road, too. And still they drive as badly as a drunk. Most impaired drivers grossly underestimate their impairment, so it’s not smart to consider yourself an exception to the danger.
One could suspect that the actual danger from distracted driving is even worse than the studies conclude, since the drivers know they are being tested and are probably more aware than they would be in the real world.
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by Bob himself
Re: Playing while driving
OK then, genius--go to a driving school that has simulators, and have them run you through some accident-avoidance scenarios while you play. Get video of your efforts and it up on YouTube. That way we can have a good laugh at your expense, without putting anybody in danger.
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by John Galt
Re: Playing while driving
Not you, Bob--you know who the "genius" is, here.
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by John Galt
Re: Playing while driving
The laws against what is illegal to do whilst driving are made by statistical analysis. They deliberatly eschew, for good reason, what any individual thinks they are safe doing.
Over that last 10 years or so, a great many people have lost their lives in accidents involving mobile phone use. The practice was banned. It's as simple as that. If anyone is arrogant enough to think that they are better drivers than the average, and that they can quite safely drive whilst playing a tinb whistle, they should, and will, be prosecuted. end of story.
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by llig leahcim
Put your money where your mouth is.
I would be very interested in seeing the results of you, feardearg, running some accident avoidance scenarios on a simulator, while playing whistle.
;)
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Playing while driving
Cell phone. Cell phone. Cell phone. Cell phone.
We are not talking cell phone. I think the two are separate issues.
I think I may take you up on the simulation. That could be revelatory one way or another.
Llig...you have such faith in law makers. You don't seem the type. But there are two things, they say, that you do not want to know how they make: laws and hot dogs.
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
I have, however, been running accident avoidance quite successfully for decades.
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by feardearg
*
that's not all you have avoided.
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Playing while driving
Why am I not surprised to see the same arguments by the opposition. llig posted the same argument, almost verbatum, 70 posts ago.
As I said, back then, cell phone use is not banned in the USA and using you logic ie-if its banned it must be wrong/dangerous/deadly, then the opposte must hold true ie- if it's NOT banned it must be safe.
And Forrest, saying the same thing 100 times doesn't prove a point. Being rude doesn't prove a point. But like many people who can't debate I guess it makes you feel better to be rude.
OK genius?
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
Number one cause of accidents is not, in fact, distracted driving. It's simply driver error. How could you legislate that?
And I CAN say I'm a better driver than the average driver if my driving record is better than the average driving record! DUH!
and double DUH!
when you guys make a ffcking point I'll be back. Otherwise you can all go back to brow beating fourteen year old girls for learning Irish music from sheet music.
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
There are laws in a number of states in the USA banning or controlling the use of cell phones among drivers.
http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/cellphone_laws.html
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by ʎɹoʇısuɐɹʇ
Re: Playing while driving
Hello, Shanty. Welcome back to the thread. I bet you thought we had moved on.
I didn't think Llig nor forest was rude, tho. I always appreciate their straightforwardness.
Believe me, I have thought a lot about our wee discussion these past few days as I have moved around vehcularly. It has done me good, I think. Altho I am sure I am safer than many of the people I have avoided on the road.
I do find that I do put the whistle down when traffic and such gets more intense than usual. I also discovered that I use both hands when going thru intersections and changing lanes. I even discovered that I don't turn corners while playing. Lastly, I find myself passing people less than they pass me, so I must be going under the speed limit some, and therefore I rarely have to stop quick because someone unexpectantly stopped in front of me.
I guess I haven't been paying a lot of attention to my whistle playing or I would have know these things.
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
Some things are worth repeating. Don't rely an individual's opinion of whether they are safe. It is wholly unreliable. (I know, I have small children.)
feardearg needs to be caught and prosecuted. I'd shop him to the cops if I knew who he was.
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Playing while driving
Joe Smith! Welcome.
But we have already tried to untangle the confusion from not disassociating cell phone use with playing the whistle.
We all agree cell phones ARE dangerous.
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
"feardearg needs to be caught and prosecuted. I'd shop him to the cops if I knew who he was."
Now that's rude.
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
"I find myself passing people less than they pass me, so I must be going under the speed limit some"
You don't even know how fast you are driving? You guage your speed merely in relation to other road users? Flippin heck.
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Playing while driving
My father told me he took up the harmonica after seeing a local kid riding a bike no-hands down the street in the 1920s, while playing a tune on the mouth organ.
He thought that was the coolest thing he'd seen.
Or whatever the word was in 1920s. "Pretty flash" I think he said
Now, driving with a harmonica rack .....
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by Bren
Re: Playing while driving
"In Michigan, teens with probationary licenses whose cell phone usage contributes to a traffic crash or ticket may not use a cell phone while driving."
That's it in Michigan.
Bren! I used to ride a 10-speed home from work everyday (8 miles) and played the whistle while riding then, too.
"You guage your speed merely in relation to other road users?" 1) Michigan drivers are speeders (except me) 2) I drive in coordination wirh traffic lights, of whose timing I am aware, having paid close attention. Saves gas.
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
Yikes. I went to get my glasses and see my typing has not been stellar. Sorry.
# Posted on September 3rd 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
Actually, "genius" was the most polite term, out of the several I considered. But I'm glad you are thinking more about safe driving habits, that's got to be a good thing.
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by John Galt
Re: Playing while driving
"You guage your speed merely in relation to other road users? Flippin heck."
If you drive the posted speed on many busy American highways you can be a safety hazzard. You have to keep up with traffic. I'm sure that all the saints on this thread will deny this but it is the truth. Especially when it was 55 here in the north east corridor.
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
The cell phone thing came up to back my argument as an example of 'distracted driving'. Any side taken in an argument needs to be backed by facts.
*Cell phone use while driving is not banned through out the US
*it is the cause of less than 10% of accidents
*90% of accidents are not caused by cell phones
*vast majority of Accidents are caused by driver error
*Feardearg has a spotless driving record, better than many
*Statistically Forrest Gump here is just as likely to cause an accident as feardearg.
*I've had only one accident(not my fault) but have driven hundreds of times more miles than most people.
'High risk' drivers cause the most accidents, most do not play whistle while driving
there is at this time no evidense to suggest that whistle playing by fearearg whilst driving poses any threat to himself or anyone else.
Slams the lid on it for me
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by shanty
Re: Playing while driving
I can attest that Michigan drivers are speeders, born and bred. I think it's a cultural thing. Sort of like how Greek cab drivers ignore lanes. Speed limits are looked upon as sort of friendly if somewhat conservative suggestions. That's motown for you.
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by fidkid
Re: Playing while driving
I also would like to point out that the faster you drive, the shorter the amount of time you expose yourself to risk, so speeding is actually safer.
Tangential, but still interesting to contemplate, is that a series of traffic lights timed for 35 mph is also timed for 70 mph.
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by fidkid
Whistle simulation
hmmm ~ suppose this means the chance for running a simulation is highly improbable. Too bad, I was looking forward to the YouTube.
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Playing while driving
"I also would like to point out that the faster you drive, the shorter the amount of time you expose yourself to risk, so speeding is actually safer."
I love it, thanks for the laugh.
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by TaoCat
Speed
I have some mates who take the same approach to playing the tunes.
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Playing while driving
I use the fact that my fellow citizens speed as a safety factor when playing the whistle. There is usually several car lengths ahead of me, so there is no chance of sudden stops that can't be seen and negotiated.
I drive in the lanes furthest from the curb so kids or little animals can be spotted before tragedy, and right turning cars don't cause me to slow down and speed up. I also can thereby avoid pot holes that may cause damage to my expensive dental work.
I have tested to see if I slow down playing airs and speed up for reels. There seems to be no correlation.
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
I'm glad to see that this discussion is still running, but it's obvious now that no amount of persuasion will stop these people's dangerous driving habits.
Feardog (Gary Farmer from Redford, Michigan – it's in his profile), however, has been a little reckless in other ways. He has written several posts boasting about his insane, dangerous and illegal driving habits, and his name and locality are clearly traceable. I wouldn't as Llig says 'shop him to the cops', but the session.org discussions come out quite high on google searches. Search for 'playing while driving' for example and this session comes out at the top of the list. It didn't last week (I know: I tried it).
I really hope you are stopped before you hurt yourself or others.
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by McDermott
Re: Playing while driving
What an idiot, Joel. Read my profile again. A little more carefully. Or have someone else read it to you. Read my nickname here, too, McDimwit. Research what it means.
Let this be a warning to all posters, however. A little fun can get the infantile snitches after you. You never know what type of trolls lurk. This post was obviously meant to do me harm. Has this ever been attempted on thesession.org?
This is Joel:
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/95/m_c3b3abec98e2719a271349903a2886ec.jpg
There are many more charming pictures (and a cool slideshow ta boot) of him on his myspace page in case you are as interested in seeing him in different and dramatic poses as he obviously thinks you should be.
Anyway, I have no idea why he thinks he is so clever to reveal my true identity after I have revealed in my profile. I am not batman, after all. He may have issues that may be hidden behind those poopy cheeks. But this was a feeble (minded) atttempt to do me personal harm.
Here is his hand. He thought you might enjoy seeing his hand:
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=91990943&albumID=78063&imageID=2602730
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by feardearg
Joel McDermott Rubbing his eye, Guitar in Hand
Here he is rubbing his eye. He thought you might enjoy seeing him rub his eye:
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=91990943&albumID=78063&imageID=40829394
Joel McDermott mandolin poopy cheeks whiner manchester snitch guitar england haha studios.
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
'I really hope you are stopped before you hurt yourself or others.'
Should be obvious that no harm is intended from me.
Thanks for the advert and direction to my myspace page. New album out soon. Joel
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by McDermott
Re: Playing while driving
“I also would like to point out that the faster you drive, the shorter the amount of time you expose yourself to risk, so speeding is actually safer.”
You’re fidkidding us, right?
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by Bob himself
Re: Playing while driving
Maybe it's time to wind up this thread. Ooops. Did I say wind up?
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
Finis.
QED
Th-th-that's all, folks.
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by Bob himself
No taker?
http://discovermagazine.com/2002/apr/featdrive
Driving Simulator
;)
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Playing while driving
My personal pledge: When this thread falls to page 6 under discussions, I won't ever come back to it.
Interesting discourse, however, with many a good point. Thanks all, and I mean all.
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Playing while driving
http://www.chiffandfipple.com/freewa~1.jpg
# Posted on September 5th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Playing while driving
Nice picture. But you can't reach the steering wheel with your elbows if you are using your seat belt.
# Posted on September 5th 2009 by feardearg