I think the time has come to replace my 1976 Conrad "Martin knockoff"- an old freind that was saved with some neck work a few years ago. Well, the grandson did it in exercising his enthusiasm to explore the world of Music.
As many know I am our liturginazi's music program conscience, arranger free-spirit, piano player with more respect for the the Music than the spots and occasional backer guitar player in her liturgical brass band. Occasional is the operative phrase.
Anyway....before the recession, (I figured this day was coming) I had great dreams of an expensive Martin. Well over $2000. Ain't gonna happen. Like everyone else, very limited 'scratch' for new instruments. And Herself would rather I lavish what we have on home and...well Herself.
But I need a good guitar and there seem to be some good buys out there in the economy- as long as the neck doesn't say 'Martin', 'Guild','Epiphone', or 'Gibson'. Can the guitar players here offer me any suggestions for affordable (say under $1000 US but preferable lower so Herself will continue to speak to me) guitars that will have decent action and a clear, round, not-too-brassy sound?
The cheapies are always tough. My experience has been, one plays lots of them. Find one that seems decent. Take it home, change the c**ppy strings to something decent....and it plays like c**p.
I was hoping there might be some ideas about decent "affordable guitars" to help focus my selection process!
Hey,
I recommend something like Lakewood guitars. They're pretty decent and for that price you could get a lot better build quality and sounding guitar than the equivalent Martin or other top name guitar. They come up for sale second hand now and then so that would be the route i'd go down.
Keep an eye out for a used Larivee, they come up in that price range a fair bit. Also seen a few used Taylors going for under $1000 as well. Check out the Elderly Instruments website too - I've seen some lovely used guitars up there at very good prices, including quite a few nice luthier made ones.
Seagull guitars are good. I've played some Blueridge Chinese built guitars that are really outstanding for the money. I've played a 000 size with a solid top and laminated back and sides that sounded, looked and played really well that was priced between $400-500. I also played an all solid spruce and rosewood parlor guitar that was really, really good for just about a grand.
Be careful with used Guilds. The neck angle can go bad and some luthiers won't touch them as they are a bear to work on in that regard. I like Guild guitars a lot but I've got one in for major surgery right now.
To my small mind, one of the marvels of modern computer-assisted manufacturing is the availability of serviceable and sometimes quite nice guitars for under a kilo-buck. For me, the best way to shop for one would be to go to a good guitar shop that stocks both low- and high-end instruments. When you’re test driving a pile of bargain guitars, it’s useful to have some reference points for quality.
I don’t keep up with the market when I’m not in shopping mode, but, on the bargain end, I’ve been impressed with Blueridge. Most low-end guitars tend to be too brassy and harsh sounding for my taste, but even the sub-500-buck Blueridge models I’ve played had a nice voice. The necks were too narrow for me, but I understand they now offer more variety. Low-end Larrivees can be good bargains.
A few years ago, my son got a new Martin 000-16SGT for just under $1000. They’re probably slightly higher now. It’s matured into a really nice fingerstyle guitar. Martin has a few respectable models that can be bought for $1000 or so. Most Martin models can be bought for around 65% of retail price, maybe less in the current market. Elderly Instruments (a very decent company) will sometimes submit to haggling and, last I knew, allowed returns within thirty days.
As for action, any reputable guitar dealer should adjust it to suit you.
And remind herself that a good guitar is an investment that tends to hold its value over the years. It's not like blowing $1000 on a vacation.
ok, here is the thing...you do not need to drop loads of money to get a good guitar IF you know what to look for
don't get hung up on brands. A guitar is wood and strings, you can't actually hear what name is on the headstock
try and find something used. 10 years old or more. The reason is that if the damn thing still plays well after 10 years or so, then it probably is going to hold up for the next 10 years, too
the next thing you want to see is tight grains in the soundboard
tone woods that are from slow growth stands are the best. Everybody knows that, so you can see it in the grains of the wood. Tighter grains = more better
Ted Williams used to go to the Louisville slugger factory and hand pick his bats. He looked for tight grain, and if its good enough for Teddy Baseball, its good enough for us
once you found a guitar that has a strait neck and good grain in the soundboard, buy it
with the economy the way it is now, I picked up a really nice guitar for $400 last summer
go to the shop with cash money. Get it in 10s and 20s so your $500 looks like it could choke a mule. Deal with the owner and let him decide if he wants to see that wad of cash walk out of the store or if he's got bills to pay too
that's how you talk them into a price on a used guitar
so go down there with a stack of money, don't buy anything new (God only knows how it will age), and try and haggle them down
Having just completed a lengthy guitar hunt I offer you this: individual guitars of the same make, year, and model vary hugely in sound quality and action, so I wouldn't look for any particular logo. Having said that, don't even bother picking up a Gibson. (Sorry, Montana.) As you've done before, just bang on a bunch of those things until one speaks to you—in your price range. Forget mail order and eBay, in other words. (Sorry, Meg Whitman.)
I've also found this: while some do luck out, at U.S. retail stores, $1000 is roughly the price point between decent and not worth it.
Yeah, be on the lookout for used instruments. You might hit upon a real jewel there. Try everything that’s in your price range, new or used. It’s true that a new guitar will probably sound different in a couple of years, but if it sounds pretty good now, it’ll very likely sound even better in two years.
And, Nate, I would abandon that rule of thumb about narrow grain on the soundboard. Statistically, it’s probably true, but nowhere near universally. Adirondack spruce is one of the best top woods and it tends to have a wide grain that can look almost like construction lumber. Besides, you want to go by the sound, not the appearance.
"at U.S. retail stores, $1000 is roughly the price point between decent and not worth it."
I would roughly agree with that, but with a little more grey area.
I agree with you there Bob that you don't want to be looking for a guitar with your eyes, but if it comes down to a choice between several basically equal instruments, and it usually does, always take the one with better grain: it will simply age better than the rest
My last guitar was a Simon and Patrick. Great value guitars.
I helped a friend look for a guitar a few weeks ago and we quickly settled on a Faith guitar. It really was excellent value for money and with an incredible sound for the price. The high end guitars are custom made by Patrick Eggle but I understand that all the Faith guitars (at least that are sold in the UK) are set up in his workshop. It really appears like it was a great buy and it even comes with a nice hard case.
Back when I was juist out of school and starving, so to speak, I got my Conrad 12 and Conrad 6. Played like Martins. way cheaper.
The 12 survived very nicely, but the action has always be a bit difficult.
The poor 6. It has a beautiful deep rich sound. But the It has been in steam and hotwiter heated houses and the wood and glue have not tolerated conditons. Had a couple of dings in the face from my mandolin player 20 years ago. Stored in the case always. the grandson flopped on the case. Face cracks at the ancient dings....ouch.
I was so hoping doing the death marches from Guitar Center to Guitar Center to Sam Ash and back..... Do instruments have any real value....The sales folks just want to know "how much is it worth to you...." I hate haggling.
Give the Martin 000-15 a try. You can usually find them used at around $700 and sometimes less which is a fantastic deal and worth every penny. I have essentially stolen my cousin's and play it almost exclusively, passing up my own Martin which was roughly double the price of a new 000-15. It works particularly well in DADGAD.
I take box lessons with John Williams....although he might enjoy having someone to back his play at my lessons, I don't think he would appreciate losing a student to DADGAD!
The guitar is strictly for playing the Church stuff with Herself's choir. She is big on 'family' exercises. If anyone wonders why I put up with playing the cheezy stuff.
Have you heard anything about the DX series. they seem very available in the Chicago market.
To echo what was said, you aren't obliged to spend all your money... Two suggestions in my experience are at the less expensive end Tanglewoods (say TW155 ST upwards at around €350 or so) and towards the top of your budget FC Yairi (say FY 84 SBE with pickup, probably over €1000). I would pick these because of their even balance (real clarity in chords top to bottom), volume and warm vibe which makes them excellent for fingerpicking, plastic picking and rhythm accompaniment. Haven't OWNED multi-grand guitars as haven't been sufficiently tempted by the playing experience (yet).
Re used - I have a Spanish guitar twenty years and it sounds better than ever.
Watch out for crap guitars with brand new strings by the way.
No doubt you know all the basics about intonation, action and whatnot...
I think the best bang for the buck in guitars are Blueridges. I keep a BR-160, with solid Rosewood back and sides and solid top, for places where my other higher end ones might be in danger. The action is lovely, and I am extremely picky...oh pardon that pun...it was truly unintentional, but silly enough to leave in print!
Just be aware in their model numbers, the triple digits, like the 160 are solid wood back and sides and top. The BR-60 looks the same but is laminate back and sides, with solid top. So the 140, 160, 180, 183, 143, 163 etc. will be all solid. the 40, 60, 80, 43, 63, 83 and so on are laminate.
I have played the laminates that some people got by accident online not realizing the difference in the triple digits, and they sound nearly as good if you want to save about $100, but I'd go for the solid one if I could afford it. A laminate back and side guitar can sound just fine as long as the builders know how to make a good solid top and the Blueridge makers are really good at this.
I have played quite a few and all were consistently very good guitars. Such pretty inlay too, people have actually asked if I UPGRADED!!
Mine was $465 with case and shipping about five years back, I think they go for $100 or so more now. You can find them all over Ebay, I went with a great feedback seller who allowed returns. I just thought they sounded too good to be true, but found they are one of those things that really is.
My guitar building teacher had a look at mine and was floored that it was so good, and mostly he was amazed how really great the neck set was, very critical to the playability. I have never had one propblem with it either.
You should see if you can try out some of the Recording King line. They've at the price point Blueridge was at before Blueridge raised their prices. The folks I know who've played one has been very impressed, and there are a number of folks on the Flatpick-L mailing list who think they're better than the Blueridge line these days.
I haven't played a Blueridge or aRecording King, so I don't have a stake in the debate. I'm just repeating what I've heard from a lot of pickers I respect.
You should try a (Japanese made) Takamine - they're great for trad, great projection and a full sound with a nice price for the quality you're gonna get.
At the time of the Conrad purchase in 1976 ( They are nearly identical to Martins. Several Martin craftsman spun off and were using more systematized way of building qulaity guitars that they planned to go 'off shore' to manufacture. Ended up in a major US patent infringement case that Martin won putting Conrad out of business.) I purchased a Takemine. I was really into having multiple guitars at the time. Loved to watch the stage setups for Buffalo Springield! Guitars everywhere.
Like Iris does with her less expensive guitar, I used it out doors and for gigs where instruments take a beating. I hated the action though and sold it to a freind.
Iris. I always understood the Blue Ridges were big bucks guitars. Do you know of a reputable seller?
On the Tak's c**p is a bit strong. Playable, but once you've seen the 'other side of the fence' as it were with some similarly price pointed instuments, they are less than satisfactory
I have an Avalon AS200. If you can find 'em, you can usually get one for under US$800 new (with a case.) Very high quality. I think they're made in Korea, now. Or at least mine was. The "AS" (the "S" is for "silver") is their budget line, but from my experience, I'd definitely try out another... they have a "gold" line as well, and then the rest on up are made in Ireland...
Ach ignore me. There is no mention of the dispute any more on George Lowden's website so I guess it is best leaving it as water under the bridge.
Essentially George Lowden teamed up with whoever the owner of Avalon is. They went into business together and formed the Avalon company. There was some dispute perhaps over how guitars should be made ie hand made vs factory made and they parted company. There was a fight over the Lowden name and who had the right to it but George is back making guitars again in a new workshop and has preserved the name. Avalon are based in Lowden's old workshop and I believe many of the luthiers making the current high-end Avalons are the ones who used to work on the Lowden guitars.
I had a shot of an Avalon in a guitar shop in Glasgow a few years ago and it looked beautiful and sounded lovely and from memory was around £500.
When I was looking for a guitar last I wanted a Lowden but couldn't find one anywhere (I think it was during the dispute and there were no new Lowdens). I ended up buying my Taylor and I love it.
One day I will get a new guitar although not for a good while yet I imagine. Perhaps a Lowden, perhaps not. There are some lovely looking guitars out there. The music shop in Perth has some gorgeous looking Patrick Eggle guitars that I would love to try out.
Hey, I also want a wooden flute but I probably have enough instruments to be going along with. There is no harm in dreaming.
Well much here is excellent advice. Blueridge solid wood guitars are good guitars for the money leaving out the social labor issues. Old 40's and 50's Epiphones can be excellent also. Guild in the early days were made by the Epiphone craftsmen that didn't want to work for Gibson after the buy out so they are excellent through the 70's. THe Takamine guitars from the 70's were patterned so closely after Martin guitars that Martin sued Takamine and these guitars are called appropriately " Lawsuit Takamines" if you can find one they are very good guitars. Used guitars are a generally better investment than new guitars. THe comment about " If it held together for ten years it will hold together for another ten" is largely true. Go forth and play guitars in your price range with a friend for an afternoon play the guitars, select a few and then listen to them from the front. You should be able to find one you like for 800.00$ .....500.00 with good fortune. Prices are dropping currently it's a good time to look. R/
i have spent my life on the periphery of the legal fraternity and never heard about Martin v. Takamine. I new I was on the edge of Martin v. Conrad. Martin must have really had a tenacious law firm.
Anyway....Does anyone have any thoughts on a mint condition 10 year old Martin (Sigma) DM-1? I know it is an intermediate instument, but for what I am using it for, if the action is ok, it has a fairly bright full sound, and I mike when I work with the Liturginazi's Brass Band.
I think I can get my freind down some on the price....
Oh on the Epi's. My late uncle was a guitar player in a local band. He got married and had to take up honest labor relegating the instrument to a closet. When he passed my brother who wouldn't know a c sharp from an Odoul's grabbed it for the antique value. Great instrument.
Took it to Florida......lived in a cracker box house. House burned taking the Epi with it.
There are some very fine small-business-type luthiers who have been hurt these economic times. They may have inventory that they really want to move--new guitars that were built for display at shows and such. I suggest that you contact folks like Oriskany Stringed Instruments, for example, a small business that builds great guitars. See what they have around. A lot of those folks may be happy to make lay-away arrangements as well.
Guitar selection assistance
Guitar selection assistance
I think the time has come to replace my 1976 Conrad "Martin knockoff"- an old freind that was saved with some neck work a few years ago. Well, the grandson did it in exercising his enthusiasm to explore the world of Music.
As many know I am our liturginazi's music program conscience, arranger free-spirit, piano player with more respect for the the Music than the spots and occasional backer guitar player in her liturgical brass band. Occasional is the operative phrase.
Anyway....before the recession, (I figured this day was coming) I had great dreams of an expensive Martin. Well over $2000. Ain't gonna happen. Like everyone else, very limited 'scratch' for new instruments. And Herself would rather I lavish what we have on home and...well Herself.
But I need a good guitar and there seem to be some good buys out there in the economy- as long as the neck doesn't say 'Martin', 'Guild','Epiphone', or 'Gibson'. Can the guitar players here offer me any suggestions for affordable (say under $1000 US but preferable lower so Herself will continue to speak to me) guitars that will have decent action and a clear, round, not-too-brassy sound?
The cheapies are always tough. My experience has been, one plays lots of them. Find one that seems decent. Take it home, change the c**ppy strings to something decent....and it plays like c**p.
I was hoping there might be some ideas about decent "affordable guitars" to help focus my selection process!
Thanks again for any suggestions.
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Guitar selection assistance
Hey,
I recommend something like Lakewood guitars. They're pretty decent and for that price you could get a lot better build quality and sounding guitar than the equivalent Martin or other top name guitar. They come up for sale second hand now and then so that would be the route i'd go down.
Cheers
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by t byrne
Re: Guitar selection assistance
Keep an eye out for a used Larivee, they come up in that price range a fair bit. Also seen a few used Taylors going for under $1000 as well. Check out the Elderly Instruments website too - I've seen some lovely used guitars up there at very good prices, including quite a few nice luthier made ones.
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by triplet upstairs
Re: Guitar selection assistance
http://www.seagullguitars.com/productlisting.htm
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by ʎɹoʇısuɐɹʇ
Re: Guitar selection assistance
http://www.chicagomusicexchange.com/ has some things of interest within your budget
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by Cuso
Re: Guitar selection assistance
I bought a Simon and Patrick last year, great sound and great value at €750...
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by shaneog
Re: Guitar selection assistance
Really ?
Can't get a Guild for a decent price ?
I got one for $112. Oh,yeah, that was in 1977. But there do seem to be ok-looking ones about still.
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Guitar selection assistance
Seagull guitars are good. I've played some Blueridge Chinese built guitars that are really outstanding for the money. I've played a 000 size with a solid top and laminated back and sides that sounded, looked and played really well that was priced between $400-500. I also played an all solid spruce and rosewood parlor guitar that was really, really good for just about a grand.
Be careful with used Guilds. The neck angle can go bad and some luthiers won't touch them as they are a bear to work on in that regard. I like Guild guitars a lot but I've got one in for major surgery right now.
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by Steve L
Re: Guitar selection assistance
To my small mind, one of the marvels of modern computer-assisted manufacturing is the availability of serviceable and sometimes quite nice guitars for under a kilo-buck. For me, the best way to shop for one would be to go to a good guitar shop that stocks both low- and high-end instruments. When you’re test driving a pile of bargain guitars, it’s useful to have some reference points for quality.
I don’t keep up with the market when I’m not in shopping mode, but, on the bargain end, I’ve been impressed with Blueridge. Most low-end guitars tend to be too brassy and harsh sounding for my taste, but even the sub-500-buck Blueridge models I’ve played had a nice voice. The necks were too narrow for me, but I understand they now offer more variety. Low-end Larrivees can be good bargains.
A few years ago, my son got a new Martin 000-16SGT for just under $1000. They’re probably slightly higher now. It’s matured into a really nice fingerstyle guitar. Martin has a few respectable models that can be bought for $1000 or so. Most Martin models can be bought for around 65% of retail price, maybe less in the current market. Elderly Instruments (a very decent company) will sometimes submit to haggling and, last I knew, allowed returns within thirty days.
As for action, any reputable guitar dealer should adjust it to suit you.
And remind herself that a good guitar is an investment that tends to hold its value over the years. It's not like blowing $1000 on a vacation.
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by Bob himself
Re: Guitar selection assistance
ok, here is the thing...you do not need to drop loads of money to get a good guitar IF you know what to look for
don't get hung up on brands. A guitar is wood and strings, you can't actually hear what name is on the headstock
try and find something used. 10 years old or more. The reason is that if the damn thing still plays well after 10 years or so, then it probably is going to hold up for the next 10 years, too
the next thing you want to see is tight grains in the soundboard
tone woods that are from slow growth stands are the best. Everybody knows that, so you can see it in the grains of the wood. Tighter grains = more better
Ted Williams used to go to the Louisville slugger factory and hand pick his bats. He looked for tight grain, and if its good enough for Teddy Baseball, its good enough for us
once you found a guitar that has a strait neck and good grain in the soundboard, buy it
with the economy the way it is now, I picked up a really nice guitar for $400 last summer
go to the shop with cash money. Get it in 10s and 20s so your $500 looks like it could choke a mule. Deal with the owner and let him decide if he wants to see that wad of cash walk out of the store or if he's got bills to pay too
that's how you talk them into a price on a used guitar
so go down there with a stack of money, don't buy anything new (God only knows how it will age), and try and haggle them down
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by Nate Ryan
Re: Guitar selection assistance
Upon reflection, I'm not sure about the thirty-day return. It might be less than that, but you do have a chance to try it out and return it.
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by Bob himself
Re: Guitar selection assistance
Having just completed a lengthy guitar hunt I offer you this: individual guitars of the same make, year, and model vary hugely in sound quality and action, so I wouldn't look for any particular logo. Having said that, don't even bother picking up a Gibson. (Sorry, Montana.) As you've done before, just bang on a bunch of those things until one speaks to you—in your price range. Forget mail order and eBay, in other words. (Sorry, Meg Whitman.)
I've also found this: while some do luck out, at U.S. retail stores, $1000 is roughly the price point between decent and not worth it.
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by NEW Pure Drop® Ear Canal Oil
Re: Guitar selection assistance
Yep, I'll second the Lakewood option...
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by EnDaC
Re: Guitar selection assistance
Yeah, be on the lookout for used instruments. You might hit upon a real jewel there. Try everything that’s in your price range, new or used. It’s true that a new guitar will probably sound different in a couple of years, but if it sounds pretty good now, it’ll very likely sound even better in two years.
And, Nate, I would abandon that rule of thumb about narrow grain on the soundboard. Statistically, it’s probably true, but nowhere near universally. Adirondack spruce is one of the best top woods and it tends to have a wide grain that can look almost like construction lumber. Besides, you want to go by the sound, not the appearance.
"at U.S. retail stores, $1000 is roughly the price point between decent and not worth it."
I would roughly agree with that, but with a little more grey area.
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by Bob himself
Re: Guitar selection assistance
I agree with you there Bob that you don't want to be looking for a guitar with your eyes, but if it comes down to a choice between several basically equal instruments, and it usually does, always take the one with better grain: it will simply age better than the rest
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by Nate Ryan
Re: Guitar selection assistance
My last guitar was a Simon and Patrick. Great value guitars.
I helped a friend look for a guitar a few weeks ago and we quickly settled on a Faith guitar. It really was excellent value for money and with an incredible sound for the price. The high end guitars are custom made by Patrick Eggle but I understand that all the Faith guitars (at least that are sold in the UK) are set up in his workshop. It really appears like it was a great buy and it even comes with a nice hard case.
http://www.faithguitars.com/
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Guitar selection assistance
thanks for the help
Back when I was juist out of school and starving, so to speak, I got my Conrad 12 and Conrad 6. Played like Martins. way cheaper.
The 12 survived very nicely, but the action has always be a bit difficult.
The poor 6. It has a beautiful deep rich sound. But the It has been in steam and hotwiter heated houses and the wood and glue have not tolerated conditons. Had a couple of dings in the face from my mandolin player 20 years ago. Stored in the case always. the grandson flopped on the case. Face cracks at the ancient dings....ouch.
I was so hoping doing the death marches from Guitar Center to Guitar Center to Sam Ash and back..... Do instruments have any real value....The sales folks just want to know "how much is it worth to you...." I hate haggling.
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Guitar selection assistance
forgot to mention. Mandolin player was left handed and turned into me in a tight space. Tuning pegs right in the face veneer.
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Guitar selection assistance
Give the Martin 000-15 a try. You can usually find them used at around $700 and sometimes less which is a fantastic deal and worth every penny. I have essentially stolen my cousin's and play it almost exclusively, passing up my own Martin which was roughly double the price of a new 000-15. It works particularly well in DADGAD.
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by Kewlceltic983
Re: Guitar selection assistance
983
I take box lessons with John Williams....although he might enjoy having someone to back his play at my lessons, I don't think he would appreciate losing a student to DADGAD!
The guitar is strictly for playing the Church stuff with Herself's choir. She is big on 'family' exercises. If anyone wonders why I put up with playing the cheezy stuff.
Have you heard anything about the DX series. they seem very available in the Chicago market.
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Guitar selection assistance
I bought this Guild a little while ago and can't fault it - all solid wood: http://www.reidys.com/index.pl?submit=View_PLU&PLU=6024 Just needed the action lowering slightly. It's so loud that when someone borrowed it at the session and was playing rather too vigorously a woman came in from the other bar and told him to pack it in because she couldn't hear the juke box. Take a look at the reviews on Harmony: http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Acoustic+Guitar/product/Guild/GAD-50/10/1
You'll find something better at 3 times the price
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by RichardB
Re: Guitar selection assistance
To echo what was said, you aren't obliged to spend all your money... Two suggestions in my experience are at the less expensive end Tanglewoods (say TW155 ST upwards at around €350 or so) and towards the top of your budget FC Yairi (say FY 84 SBE with pickup, probably over €1000). I would pick these because of their even balance (real clarity in chords top to bottom), volume and warm vibe which makes them excellent for fingerpicking, plastic picking and rhythm accompaniment. Haven't OWNED multi-grand guitars as haven't been sufficiently tempted by the playing experience (yet).
Re used - I have a Spanish guitar twenty years and it sounds better than ever.
Watch out for crap guitars with brand new strings by the way.
No doubt you know all the basics about intonation, action and whatnot...
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by Plasterboard
Re: Guitar selection assistance
I have a freind who heard I was starting my search and offered me a "gently used" Martin (Sigma) DM-1 for $500 which he paid $850 for 10 years......
I think I will keep looking! I have gotten so much mileage out of my instruments that shopping is a bit of a nuisance.
I have heard of the Tanglewoods, but have not seen any in the States.
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Guitar selection assistance
Another vote here for Tanglewood. I think they are available in the States - I seem to remember it being mentioned on another thread.
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by All Moldy
Re: Guitar selection assistance
Correction - on another forum.
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by All Moldy
Re: Guitar selection assistance
I think the best bang for the buck in guitars are Blueridges. I keep a BR-160, with solid Rosewood back and sides and solid top, for places where my other higher end ones might be in danger. The action is lovely, and I am extremely picky...oh pardon that pun...it was truly unintentional, but silly enough to leave in print!
Just be aware in their model numbers, the triple digits, like the 160 are solid wood back and sides and top. The BR-60 looks the same but is laminate back and sides, with solid top. So the 140, 160, 180, 183, 143, 163 etc. will be all solid. the 40, 60, 80, 43, 63, 83 and so on are laminate.
I have played the laminates that some people got by accident online not realizing the difference in the triple digits, and they sound nearly as good if you want to save about $100, but I'd go for the solid one if I could afford it. A laminate back and side guitar can sound just fine as long as the builders know how to make a good solid top and the Blueridge makers are really good at this.
I have played quite a few and all were consistently very good guitars. Such pretty inlay too, people have actually asked if I UPGRADED!!
Mine was $465 with case and shipping about five years back, I think they go for $100 or so more now. You can find them all over Ebay, I went with a great feedback seller who allowed returns. I just thought they sounded too good to be true, but found they are one of those things that really is.
My guitar building teacher had a look at mine and was floored that it was so good, and mostly he was amazed how really great the neck set was, very critical to the playability. I have never had one propblem with it either.
# Posted on August 26th 2009 by irisnevins
Re: Guitar selection assistance
Zippy,
You should see if you can try out some of the Recording King line. They've at the price point Blueridge was at before Blueridge raised their prices. The folks I know who've played one has been very impressed, and there are a number of folks on the Flatpick-L mailing list who think they're better than the Blueridge line these days.
I haven't played a Blueridge or aRecording King, so I don't have a stake in the debate. I'm just repeating what I've heard from a lot of pickers I respect.
http://www.recordingking.com/guitars_rg100rs.html
Elderly also carries a nice selection of them
http://www.elderly.com/brand/GUIT_recording%20king.html
You should also look at what's out there in the used market in Chicago. I suspect you could find a real nice guitar for < $1K.
Jeff
# Posted on August 26th 2009 by jeff_willner
Re: Guitar selection assistance
You should try a (Japanese made) Takamine - they're great for trad, great projection and a full sound with a nice price for the quality you're gonna get.
# Posted on August 26th 2009 by camwebby
Re: Guitar selection assistance
I hate Takamines - on principle!
# Posted on August 26th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Guitar selection assistance
I'll suggest you try out a Blueridge BR-180! Have one myself and it's killer!!!!!!!
# Posted on August 26th 2009 by DADdyGADdy
Re: Guitar selection assistance
Tak's are great - great price, great build, great sound... just because it's mainstream doesnt mean its crap
# Posted on August 26th 2009 by camwebby
Re: Guitar selection assistance
What's the "Takimine principle"?
# Posted on August 26th 2009 by Steve L
Re: Guitar selection assistance
It's like wife-swapping but with guitars: "I'll tak-a yours, and you tak-a mine!"
# Posted on August 26th 2009 by Bren
Re: Guitar selection assistance
Make sure you enquire as to what sort of glue is used in the making of the instrument.
# Posted on August 26th 2009 by mcknowall
Re: Guitar selection assistance
...before you start sniffing it.
# Posted on August 26th 2009 by Bob himself
Re: Guitar selection assistance
Sorry cam webby. My age is showing here.
At the time of the Conrad purchase in 1976 ( They are nearly identical to Martins. Several Martin craftsman spun off and were using more systematized way of building qulaity guitars that they planned to go 'off shore' to manufacture. Ended up in a major US patent infringement case that Martin won putting Conrad out of business.) I purchased a Takemine. I was really into having multiple guitars at the time. Loved to watch the stage setups for Buffalo Springield! Guitars everywhere.
Like Iris does with her less expensive guitar, I used it out doors and for gigs where instruments take a beating. I hated the action though and sold it to a freind.
Iris. I always understood the Blue Ridges were big bucks guitars. Do you know of a reputable seller?
# Posted on August 26th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Guitar selection assistance
OOOH. Blueridge is Chinese made.
Lots of social and labor issues with that.
Don't think that will fly well on the home front.
# Posted on August 26th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Guitar selection assistance
I play a Garrison, which I got for less than $ 1000 new.. they are from Canada.. It has a bright, ringing tone.
# Posted on August 26th 2009 by jardineromi
Re: Guitar selection assistance
I don't think Takamines are crap because they are "mainstream". I have a Taylor after all. I think Takamines are crap because they are crap.
# Posted on August 26th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Guitar selection assistance
On the Tak's c**p is a bit strong. Playable, but once you've seen the 'other side of the fence' as it were with some similarly price pointed instuments, they are less than satisfactory
# Posted on August 26th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Guitar selection assistance
I have an Avalon AS200. If you can find 'em, you can usually get one for under US$800 new (with a case.) Very high quality. I think they're made in Korea, now. Or at least mine was. The "AS" (the "S" is for "silver") is their budget line, but from my experience, I'd definitely try out another... they have a "gold" line as well, and then the rest on up are made in Ireland...
# Posted on August 26th 2009 by mickr
Re: Guitar selection assistance
Some of the Avalons I have tried have been very nice, but given their history with George Lowden I probably wouldn't buy one.
# Posted on August 26th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Guitar selection assistance
Forgive my ignorance of said history with Mr. Lowden... I understand they are somehow related to Lowden Guitars, but have no idea of any details.
Also, I meant to say they are very high quality *for the price*.
# Posted on August 26th 2009 by mickr
Re: Guitar selection assistance
Ach ignore me. There is no mention of the dispute any more on George Lowden's website so I guess it is best leaving it as water under the bridge.
Essentially George Lowden teamed up with whoever the owner of Avalon is. They went into business together and formed the Avalon company. There was some dispute perhaps over how guitars should be made ie hand made vs factory made and they parted company. There was a fight over the Lowden name and who had the right to it but George is back making guitars again in a new workshop and has preserved the name. Avalon are based in Lowden's old workshop and I believe many of the luthiers making the current high-end Avalons are the ones who used to work on the Lowden guitars.
I had a shot of an Avalon in a guitar shop in Glasgow a few years ago and it looked beautiful and sounded lovely and from memory was around £500.
When I was looking for a guitar last I wanted a Lowden but couldn't find one anywhere (I think it was during the dispute and there were no new Lowdens). I ended up buying my Taylor and I love it.
One day I will get a new guitar although not for a good while yet I imagine. Perhaps a Lowden, perhaps not. There are some lovely looking guitars out there. The music shop in Perth has some gorgeous looking Patrick Eggle guitars that I would love to try out.
Hey, I also want a wooden flute but I probably have enough instruments to be going along with. There is no harm in dreaming.
# Posted on August 26th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Guitar selection assistance
Well much here is excellent advice. Blueridge solid wood guitars are good guitars for the money leaving out the social labor issues. Old 40's and 50's Epiphones can be excellent also. Guild in the early days were made by the Epiphone craftsmen that didn't want to work for Gibson after the buy out so they are excellent through the 70's. THe Takamine guitars from the 70's were patterned so closely after Martin guitars that Martin sued Takamine and these guitars are called appropriately " Lawsuit Takamines" if you can find one they are very good guitars. Used guitars are a generally better investment than new guitars. THe comment about " If it held together for ten years it will hold together for another ten" is largely true. Go forth and play guitars in your price range with a friend for an afternoon play the guitars, select a few and then listen to them from the front. You should be able to find one you like for 800.00$ .....500.00 with good fortune. Prices are dropping currently it's a good time to look. R/
# Posted on August 27th 2009 by usuallypickin
Re: Guitar selection assistance
You're right usuallypicken
i have spent my life on the periphery of the legal fraternity and never heard about Martin v. Takamine. I new I was on the edge of Martin v. Conrad. Martin must have really had a tenacious law firm.
Anyway....Does anyone have any thoughts on a mint condition 10 year old Martin (Sigma) DM-1? I know it is an intermediate instument, but for what I am using it for, if the action is ok, it has a fairly bright full sound, and I mike when I work with the Liturginazi's Brass Band.
I think I can get my freind down some on the price....
# Posted on August 27th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Guitar selection assistance
Oh on the Epi's. My late uncle was a guitar player in a local band. He got married and had to take up honest labor relegating the instrument to a closet. When he passed my brother who wouldn't know a c sharp from an Odoul's grabbed it for the antique value. Great instrument.
Took it to Florida......lived in a cracker box house. House burned taking the Epi with it.
# Posted on August 27th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Guitar selection assistance
There are some very fine small-business-type luthiers who have been hurt these economic times. They may have inventory that they really want to move--new guitars that were built for display at shows and such. I suggest that you contact folks like Oriskany Stringed Instruments, for example, a small business that builds great guitars. See what they have around. A lot of those folks may be happy to make lay-away arrangements as well.
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by bfolkemer