I'm not suggesting for a moment that Michael McGoldrick deliberately pinched the phrase or that it is actually a bad tune. If I'd never heard "Mh... Wedd..." , I'd have been none the wiser. However, I have and just can't take "James Brown's March" quite as seriously now.
Re: One irritating phrase and the whole tune is ruined?
Can't give any specific examples as I'm dreadful remembering tune names - but generally any recently composed tune which sounds initially like it has the potential to be a good tune when you hear the first part, frequently in the second part there is either one note or some fancy piece of synchronisation which ruins the whole tune...
Re: One irritating phrase and the whole tune is ruined?
Sometimes it's not just a little bit of the B-part that throws the entire composition, it can be the whole of B-part if it isn't structured and thought-out properly. The answer is self-criticism, followed by severe self-criticism, and then a good dose of heart-felt criticism from knowledgeable friends and band colleagues (not necessarily the same!), and finally be prepared to have the WPB/shredder to hand.
Re: One irritating phrase and the whole tune is ruined?
Batlady, this is how to play the third part of "Trip to Pakistan":
1) Don't play it the way it is on thesession.org, but play it like this:
|: FGBF GBFG | EFGE FGEF | DFAD FADF | AGFG E4 :|
2) Think of each bar as having a three note sequence. E.g. the 1st bar's first 3 notes are FGB. Now for each bar play its 3 note sequence in this order: 123 123 12. Now think of the 3rd part as:
|: FGB FGB FG | EFG EFG EF | DFA DFA DF | AGFG E4 :|
You should now be able to play this tune. Please report back on progress.
Re: One irritating phrase and the whole tune is ruined?
Nigel, would that not sound weird if playing with others and they were playing it straight? You'd have emphasis on different beats in the third parts no?
Re: One irritating phrase and the whole tune is ruined?
"would that not sound weird if playing with others and they were playing it straight?"
If everyone is listening to everyone else, they'll pick up on the syncopation and fall in with it. Should one or more players stubbornly refuse to change the emphasis of notes within the bar, then the overall effect will just be that the syncopation is less pronounced. The timing of the notes is stil the same, regardless of where you put the accents.
Re: One irritating phrase and the whole tune is ruined?
Thanks, Nigel. My detailed report will appear on your desk tomorrow morning. B-)
I've always swung the third part with a bit of syncopation--more like a rag. I learned it from someone that played it straight, and it was worrisome. I will feel free to inflict it on my session mates.
One irritating phrase and the whole tune is ruined?
One irritating phrase and the whole tune is ruined?
OK, that's an exaggeration but do you ever find that a very familiar and "annoying" phrase which can put you off an otherwise very good tune?
For instance, I can't help but think of "Mhairi's Wedding" when this tune starts...
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/3396
I'm not suggesting for a moment that Michael McGoldrick deliberately pinched the phrase or that it is actually a bad tune. If I'd never heard "Mh... Wedd..." , I'd have been none the wiser. However, I have and just can't take "James Brown's March" quite as seriously now.
Any more examples?
# Posted on August 11th 2009 by John J.
Re: One irritating phrase and the whole tune is ruined?
Can't give any specific examples as I'm dreadful remembering tune names - but generally any recently composed tune which sounds initially like it has the potential to be a good tune when you hear the first part, frequently in the second part there is either one note or some fancy piece of synchronisation which ruins the whole tune...
# Posted on August 11th 2009 by Ron P
Re: One irritating phrase and the whole tune is ruined?
Trip to Pakistan; that third part still bothers me. I like to play the tune, but I need to work out that bit.
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/112
Note to Dow: no one has poured cold beer down my neck when I trot this out.....
# Posted on August 11th 2009 by Michele Sims
Re: One irritating phrase and the whole tune is ruined?
I second Ron P's comments about recently composed tunes. I really hate the Trip to Herve's, but I'd learn it if it had a different second part.
# Posted on August 11th 2009 by slainte
Re: One irritating phrase and the whole tune is ruined?
Sometimes it's not just a little bit of the B-part that throws the entire composition, it can be the whole of B-part if it isn't structured and thought-out properly. The answer is self-criticism, followed by severe self-criticism, and then a good dose of heart-felt criticism from knowledgeable friends and band colleagues (not necessarily the same!), and finally be prepared to have the WPB/shredder to hand.
# Posted on August 11th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: One irritating phrase and the whole tune is ruined?
Batlady, this is how to play the third part of "Trip to Pakistan":
1) Don't play it the way it is on thesession.org, but play it like this:
|: FGBF GBFG | EFGE FGEF | DFAD FADF | AGFG E4 :|
2) Think of each bar as having a three note sequence. E.g. the 1st bar's first 3 notes are FGB. Now for each bar play its 3 note sequence in this order: 123 123 12. Now think of the 3rd part as:
|: FGB FGB FG | EFG EFG EF | DFA DFA DF | AGFG E4 :|
You should now be able to play this tune. Please report back on progress.
# Posted on August 11th 2009 by nigelg
Re: One irritating phrase and the whole tune is ruined?
Nigel, would that not sound weird if playing with others and they were playing it straight? You'd have emphasis on different beats in the third parts no?
# Posted on August 11th 2009 by tnoumarap
Re: One irritating phrase and the whole tune is ruined?
"would that not sound weird if playing with others and they were playing it straight?"
If everyone is listening to everyone else, they'll pick up on the syncopation and fall in with it. Should one or more players stubbornly refuse to change the emphasis of notes within the bar, then the overall effect will just be that the syncopation is less pronounced. The timing of the notes is stil the same, regardless of where you put the accents.
# Posted on August 11th 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: One irritating phrase and the whole tune is ruined?
Thanks, Nigel. My detailed report will appear on your desk tomorrow morning. B-)
I've always swung the third part with a bit of syncopation--more like a rag. I learned it from someone that played it straight, and it was worrisome. I will feel free to inflict it on my session mates.
# Posted on August 11th 2009 by Michele Sims
Re: One irritating phrase and the whole tune is ruined?
Are you going to try to run them "Ragged" Batlady?
# Posted on August 12th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: One irritating phrase and the whole tune is ruined?
No don't emphasise anything differently - just think of the pattern 123 123 12 and the tune will fall into place.
# Posted on August 12th 2009 by nigelg