When i originally bought my beginner violin it was setup as a fiddle. Since then I have had another one restored and I did not even give it much thought when I had it setup again as a fiddle. Now i'm starting to second guess having the bridge filled down as I am not really ready to start doing double stops and I often find myself accidentally hitting multiple strings. I have never tried playing on an unaltered bridge. Looking for thoughts and opinions on which setup is preferred and the pros and cons of each. Thanks!
A flatter bridge doesn't actually make double-stopping any easier (two strings always lie on a straight line), what it does is to make string crossing faster (because you have to rock the bow through a smaller angle) but at the expense of making accidental double stops much more likely. That's no big problem to old-timey fiddlers who are using a lot of double stops anyway, but it generally isn't helpful for Irish music.
Whatever style you are going to play it is important to learn to bow cleanly and accurately first, so start with a standard bridge, and flatten it later if you feel the need.
I think the vast majority of Irish and Scottish fiddlers use a standard 42mm radius (I very rarely get asked to set up a fiddle any other way)
If you're already accidentally hitting multiple strings, as you said, you don't want a flatter bridge, period. Ultimately, most Irish music will only ever involve playing between two strings at a time: generally you'll have a bit going on the middle strings, then hit up the high strings, etc., so having to cross between non-adjacent strings will almost never happen, unless you're playing some older pipe tunes that jump directly between low and high E or G, for example.
Furthermore, I think it's a good general principle that you want to work on technique before anything else, because physical changes to your instrument setup take time, money, and may not be easily remedied if you want to go back. You can change back to a different brand of strings, for instance, but you can't un-cut a bridge.
Fiddle vs Violin is like saying toe-mato, tomato; potatoe po-taatoe. The differences are small but crucial and on a 'beginners' 'improvers' violin would probably be questionable and difficult to assess.
Two things then, you got to learn to use the thing so as to get the best out of it and the sound clean and clear first of all. Second, if you are lucky enough to have a local luthier who is willing to spend the time and effort to assist you, you will need all of their wisdom and patience assist you, Cherish him/her. Changing the bridge, sound post, string length, guage etc. means that it will take a long long time before you can be sure of what it is you wish to achieve.
Patience, listen, listen, listen. It will not happen overnight. The music comes from you, the fiddle/violin is just the means.
I prefer the standard violin bridge myself. I tried the flattened bridge about 8 months ago or so. I personally didnt care for it, but like everything,its what works for you.
I had my bridge cut to lower the action, but not flattened. As others have said, you don't need a flattened bridge for double stops and it isn't something that Irish fiddlers commonly use.
The idea that fiddles should be set up with a flattened bridge comes mostly from old-time fiddling, I think. Old-time fiddlers often use a flattened bridge, but that's because they actually play triple-stops/drones. Most Irish fiddlers seem to prefer a standard classical-style set-up, which suits the style just fine.
The standard bridge cut should make it easier to avoid accidentally hitting adjacent strings. I recommend having a standard bridge cut and trying that for a while. You can keep your old bridge and go back to using it later if you want.
A lower action is more important than a flattened bridge - it needs less effort to play, certainly with steel core strings. From my own observations in orchestral playing and sessions there seems to be as much variation in the action height in the classical camp as in the trad. Apart from the steel core issue it seems to be largely a matter of preference.
Hey, Jasten! Stick with your flatter fiddle set-up, for a while at least. From my humble experience, it'll train you into a bowing accuracy that you may be thankful for when age and alcohol take their inevitable toll....
Fiddle Setup vs Violin Setup
Fiddle Setup vs Violin Setup
When i originally bought my beginner violin it was setup as a fiddle. Since then I have had another one restored and I did not even give it much thought when I had it setup again as a fiddle. Now i'm starting to second guess having the bridge filled down as I am not really ready to start doing double stops and I often find myself accidentally hitting multiple strings. I have never tried playing on an unaltered bridge. Looking for thoughts and opinions on which setup is preferred and the pros and cons of each. Thanks!
# Posted on August 10th 2009 by jasten
Re: Fiddle Setup vs Violin Setup
Learn on a "standard" 42mm radius bridge.
A flatter bridge doesn't actually make double-stopping any easier (two strings always lie on a straight line), what it does is to make string crossing faster (because you have to rock the bow through a smaller angle) but at the expense of making accidental double stops much more likely. That's no big problem to old-timey fiddlers who are using a lot of double stops anyway, but it generally isn't helpful for Irish music.
Whatever style you are going to play it is important to learn to bow cleanly and accurately first, so start with a standard bridge, and flatten it later if you feel the need.
I think the vast majority of Irish and Scottish fiddlers use a standard 42mm radius (I very rarely get asked to set up a fiddle any other way)
# Posted on August 10th 2009 by skreech
Re: Fiddle Setup vs Violin Setup
If you're already accidentally hitting multiple strings, as you said, you don't want a flatter bridge, period. Ultimately, most Irish music will only ever involve playing between two strings at a time: generally you'll have a bit going on the middle strings, then hit up the high strings, etc., so having to cross between non-adjacent strings will almost never happen, unless you're playing some older pipe tunes that jump directly between low and high E or G, for example.
Furthermore, I think it's a good general principle that you want to work on technique before anything else, because physical changes to your instrument setup take time, money, and may not be easily remedied if you want to go back. You can change back to a different brand of strings, for instance, but you can't un-cut a bridge.
# Posted on August 10th 2009 by Danjo
Re: Fiddle Setup vs Violin Setup
Fiddle vs Violin is like saying toe-mato, tomato; potatoe po-taatoe. The differences are small but crucial and on a 'beginners' 'improvers' violin would probably be questionable and difficult to assess.
Two things then, you got to learn to use the thing so as to get the best out of it and the sound clean and clear first of all. Second, if you are lucky enough to have a local luthier who is willing to spend the time and effort to assist you, you will need all of their wisdom and patience assist you, Cherish him/her. Changing the bridge, sound post, string length, guage etc. means that it will take a long long time before you can be sure of what it is you wish to achieve.
Patience, listen, listen, listen. It will not happen overnight. The music comes from you, the fiddle/violin is just the means.
# Posted on August 10th 2009 by john knoss
Re: Fiddle Setup vs Violin Setup
I prefer the standard violin bridge myself. I tried the flattened bridge about 8 months ago or so. I personally didnt care for it, but like everything,its what works for you.
# Posted on August 10th 2009 by Barry1963
Re: Fiddle Setup vs Violin Setup
I had my bridge cut to lower the action, but not flattened. As others have said, you don't need a flattened bridge for double stops and it isn't something that Irish fiddlers commonly use.
The idea that fiddles should be set up with a flattened bridge comes mostly from old-time fiddling, I think. Old-time fiddlers often use a flattened bridge, but that's because they actually play triple-stops/drones. Most Irish fiddlers seem to prefer a standard classical-style set-up, which suits the style just fine.
The standard bridge cut should make it easier to avoid accidentally hitting adjacent strings. I recommend having a standard bridge cut and trying that for a while. You can keep your old bridge and go back to using it later if you want.
# Posted on August 10th 2009 by Marklar
Re: Fiddle Setup vs Violin Setup
A lower action is more important than a flattened bridge - it needs less effort to play, certainly with steel core strings. From my own observations in orchestral playing and sessions there seems to be as much variation in the action height in the classical camp as in the trad. Apart from the steel core issue it seems to be largely a matter of preference.
# Posted on August 11th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Fiddle Setup vs Violin Setup
Hey, Jasten! Stick with your flatter fiddle set-up, for a while at least. From my humble experience, it'll train you into a bowing accuracy that you may be thankful for when age and alcohol take their inevitable toll....
# Posted on August 11th 2009 by Jerry O'Donnell
Re: Fiddle Setup vs Violin Setup
It doesn't matter which one you learn on, really. Just learn to play cleanly and you'll be fine.
# Posted on August 11th 2009 by awildman2384
Re: Fiddle Setup vs Violin Setup
I'm voting for the flat bridge
quote: I think the vast majority of Irish and Scottish fiddlers use a standard 42mm radius (I very rarely get asked to set up a fiddle any other way)
ixnay: if you look at the old photos you'll see a lot
more 60 mm bridges than 42 mm.
Those players are not using your classical setup.
Me neither.
# Posted on August 12th 2009 by dogmageek