"Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
"Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
G'day all,
Dennis Regan's "zouk" post has prompted me to write.
Its funny how words,phrases,nicknames etc. can annoy some folks..infuriate perhaps !
The thing that is really giving me the willies lately is......" Look "..
"Look" is used by Polititians,company spokesmen and women,spin doctors and anyone in some administrative position who's being interviewed..
The answer to the question is preceded by "Look" .... gggrrrrrrr !!
Goes like this....The question is asked and then the answer...."Look",I dont really want to go into specifics ...or..."Look", you'll have to ask someboby else ......ggggrrrr !
Anyone else overcome with grief by words and phrases ?
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In my office this past week, we've been laughing about how every other person seems to be using the word "Exaaaaaaactly" over and over -- stretching out the "a" sound. Starting to really annoy one of my co-workers. Funny how some things get under your skin.
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Look, this is exaaactly what I've been sayng. What we need, what is needed, right now, in this organization/town/city/county/state/country....is more TRANSPARENCY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Computer geeks say "actually" and "let's go ahead and..." repeatedly.
Whenever I am compelled to listen to them, I make it a game to count how many times they say each. It helps me pay attention. Try it if you have the misfortune.
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Too right Hup,that one really sh*ts me as well ...
Ab-so-loooooooootly ...
Also....."The reality is" ...
And.......a favourite amongst Footy players and other sporty types is,...."Yeah,no" ..this is usually given before an answer in the same manner as
"Look"....gggrrrrr !
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"look" is something of an Australianism zoukboy, though it's also used elsewhere. "Look, I don't know ..."
same with "yeh, no ...." or "No, yeh ...." something I also notice when I return to Australia. Quite charming although you're never quite sure if the person's agreeing or disagreeing until you're some way into the sentence .. but that also seems to be gaining ground elsewhere.
Extreme example - Vicki Pollard in Little Britain with her "yebbut nobbut ...."
Last but not least if the excellent Roger Landes (aka zoukboy on other forums such as mandolincafe.com) is happy with the term Zouk, then so am I, although I'd feela wkward saying it out loud.
But then I wouldn't say "ITM" either
Writing is a different KoF http://www.myspace.com/zoukboy
I think he organises "Zoukfest" as well
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Look, moving forward, any issues will be dealt with through the appropriate channels. We've got a new paradigm here, it's time to think outside the box. We've all got to be team players and pitch in.
Sorry, this has all given me a bad corporate-speak flashback. I'm fine now. Carry on.
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Well,since this is a free-for-all I don't like triple injunctions;as in:'practise,practise,practise!'.
With exclamation marks or no.
Which leads on to the practice of multiple exclamation and question marks.
I blame Tony Blair for the trebles though.
All that education,education,education.
I'm sure I could get more picky over other things as well.
Just look what you've started,zoukboy.
You'll never hear the last of it.
I'm with you on the 'impact' too,J N A.
But then I am a grumpy old 'Uncle Mort' type with more than a hint of Ignatius P. Reilly.
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I had a cousin visit, he told me he'd gone into a shop, where the clerk commented on his accent. He told her he was from Cincinnati, and she laughed and asked him to say "watch". He said "watch". "Huh" she said, "Usually Cincinnati people say 'warsh'!"
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
The few times I've heard it, it was used by people whom I'd guess were late 20s - mid 30s. Interesting question, Bren. I've never heard a younger person -- or older person -- use it. I wouldn't be surprised to find out this board contributes to the expression.
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People tend these days to invent words and phrases which make them sound clever -
eg." we are in a rehearsal situation" - why not say "we're rehearsing."
The other thing is that whole job titles are just invented these days and therefore a new jargon has to be invented to legitimise these people - eg. "we need to get things into a position where we're moving forward" for "we need to get on with it".
Other such irritating and unnecessary phrases_
multi-tasking
learning curve
downtime
upgrade
etc etc
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I hear what you're all saying, but at the end of the day it reflects where you are on your journey and may highlight challenging behaviour issues. You have to learn to live in the real world - we're in the twenty-first century, you know!
Otherwise, you'll be taken to Centres of Correction to be colonically irrigated with organic vindaloo and exfoliated with live dogfish.
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I'm not a lover of the use of the word 'definitive' especially when I'm being told by a 'Person playing records' that this is the definitive version of eg: The Mason's Apron. Would much prefer to hear 'a great version' Also don't like use of DJ for a person who gets big bucks for putting records on a turntable, and doesn't even have to wind up the gramophone.....Oops...nearly spilled my cocoa.
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Can't stand it when people people sprinkle "sort of" senselessly. Typical locution: "This role is really sort of unique in its sort of deconstruction of romantic illusions."
Also, the use of "up" as a verb. "Up your sizzle!"
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"Whenever I am compelled to listen to them, I make it a game to count how many times they say each. It helps me pay attention. Try it if you have the misfortune"
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"LIKE, I was going to the mall yesterday, and LIKE, this old guy pulled out in front of me and, LIKE, I'm "dude I'm texting here!", and he LIKE, glared at me really, LIKE, YOU KNOW, what's your problem, YOU KNOW?"
I hate that $#!^ with the power of a thousands suns!
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Yes.... "Like" ,that's another painfull one is'nt it .
The person who is surprised by something... " And I was like,oh my gaaaarrrd that was sooo aahhhsome "
Grrrr !
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That just reminded me how much I hate the "Oh my gawd" hackneyed phrase that alot of people just spontaneously erupt with when something surprises or horrifies them.
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Yes! Yes! A Thousand times, yes! How I hate to hear "Oh My God" and "...like...", I will add the sentences beginning with "WAIT!" or even more awful... "Wait! What?..." that is strictly forbidden in my classroom. And my brain explodes on the rare occasions when I hear, all at once..."What! What? whatever..."
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NCFA
In the north-east of England (where my in-laws live) I've noticed something similar. They add "tho' but" to the end of the sentence. I even notice my husband revert to doing it when we visit there. I find it quite endearing.
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They do the "but" thing in Australia too
Glasgow has so many -isms though, know what I mean by the way big man? Like "has went"
Watching the excellent "Man on Wire" on BBc last night, I noticed one of his NYC accomplices, a Jim Moore , say "heighth"
Wouldn't have thought anything of it, but for this thread!
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I do not mean that the expression irritates me greatly, at least not to the hair-ripping out extent that some folk on here seem to be at with other things. It is just an observable characteristic which is interesting if odd.
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They say that in Ireland as well, John.
My other pet peeve is the exchange that is "How are you?" "Fine."
The answer is *always* fine. Some comedian -- Dylan Moran maybe -- had a great sketch about this, saying that all sorts of terrible things could have befallen you but the person asking the question has zero interest in the answer. It is just a meaningless small talk conversation. Would be far better to ask about the weather.
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"Can't stand it when people people sprinkle "sort of" senselessly."
54321 - Are you talking about broadcasters and public speakers or about everyday, colloquial speech?
I think, if we had sound recordings dating far enough back, we would probably discover that people were using idioms like 'sort of', 'kind of', 'like', 'know what I mean' etc., back in the 19th Century, the Middle Ages and beyond. They might not have used exactly the same words, but they would almost certainly have had equivalent 'meaningless' expressions. I do not think they represent any sort of linguistic decay, but rather, serve an essential function in everyday spoken language.
Broadcasting, in terms of the history of language as a whole, is a very new phenomenon indeed. When it first emerged, the broadcasting companies (the BBC, at least - I cannot speak for other countries or languages) attempted to culture a variety of speech specially reserved for wireless. As broadcasting has become a more integral part of our society, so the need for a special 'broadcasting speak' has lessened In early 20th Century Britain, local dialects were stronger and broadcast sound quality was much poorer, so there was an especial need for clarity of speech and for a regionally neutral variety of English* in order for broadcasts to be readily understood by everybody.
Of course, you still have the right to be annoyed.
*This is not to say that there were not already regionally neutral varieties of English in existence before broadcasting began - just that such varieties were *chosen* and developed for broadcasting.
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"LIKE, I was going to the mall yesterday, and LIKE, this old guy pulled out in front of me and, LIKE, I'm "dude I'm texting here!", and he LIKE, glared at me really, LIKE, YOU KNOW, what's your problem, YOU KNOW?"
I was wondering when someone would mention these. i don't know why i ever sent my children to school in the States (living in Europe) because they all came back saying 'ya know" every 5th word. It's a hard habit to break too. I mean - "like" when you're being intrviewed for a job But i guess it's taken for granted these days. When I was young we were reprimanded for saying "How come?" instead of "why?".
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Do you notice that newsreaders etc still use phrases such at "At about" , "In about" , "At around" and so on.
The even will happen either "At" or "about" a certain time and not both!!!
Amazingly, they've been saying this for years. I remember having been corrected for this error about 40 years ago and I had picked up the habit from The BBC back then!
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>In some parts of Glasgow there is the habit of adding the >word 'but' to the end of a sentence as in, "You know what I >mean but?"
I grew up near falkirk, with glaswegian parents.
I remember one day at schools my friends pointing out I put "but" at the end of a sentence: my natural response (as in without deliberate thought) was "where else would you put it, but?"
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>I used to have a colleague who would always interrupt a >conversation with a question in the form:
>"Question" (then a really irritating pause, followed by his >question)
>I wonder if he's still alive
used to be an engineer form somehwer in the north of england would come up to maintain some equipment in my last job. Very helpful, thorough guy, but he did want you to stand with him all day while he talked you through everything.
He would turn everything, *everything* into a little person:
"What we need now is to put Mr Plug into Mrs socket."
"do I need Mr labcoat to work in this room"
"where is Mr Tearoom, mrs lunc would like to visit"
"ah, all we need now is Mr pen and a quick signature for his friend Mr Form"
Every sentence. All day. Every visit.
Somedays if I'd been in a lift with only one bullet and the both of them, I'd have shot him before Thatcher.
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Look, basically, you know, I'm Phoney Bliar and at the end of the day, I have created so much warfare, in real terms, over a dodgy dossier, of which nothing will be ruled in or ruled out, that I want to draw a line under it and move on.
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A particular F1 commentator who likes to imagine what the driver will be thinking at any given time, as in:
" He'll be sitting there now going 'ok, well if you think you're going past me on that side I'm going to have to stop you any way I can'."
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Bob h, that's just a peculiarity of the English language (another one like!) when applied to non-English pronunciation protocols ("for want of a better term"). Mc in English, "correct me if I'm wrong" is usually, if not always, pronounced without an audible 'a'...It is actually presented as such in the spelling of Mc - no 'a'...so English speakers will pronounce it like that: mc, not mac. If they do that, then the "unspoken convention" in English will be that there won't be any other unstressed syllable in the word, hence, you'll always get mcAfee, rather than MAKa-fee, in this example.
Makes you wonder why there was ever a spelling difference between Mc and Mac doesn't it. Doesn't it?
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"Brilliant" is a word that is used out of context way too much - especially around Ireland and England. I wonder if the Guinness commercials have cured that...
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I don't think you would, ramble, if you pronounced a strong "DON" in that word - you might think you do pronounce a strong Mac in that case, but you don't, it would be the same as Mc. In English, the syllable is either stressed or it isn't, and that is usually indicated by the nature of the syllables around it, whether they are stressed or not. English words have only one stressed syllable in each word. Don't get confused either, with long vowel sounds posing as stressed syllables e.g. the word "unique" - the stressed syllable in that word is the "NI", not the "u".
In the case of MacDonald, you would be saying, I am pretty sure, Mc- DON -ld, not MAC -donld. Wouldn't you be?
Whether you pronounce Mc as Mc or Mac, doesn't change your stress of the syllable DON, in that example.
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In your other example, MacIntyre, yes, you're stressing the MAC, and that is how, I believe that name is pronounced - MAC-intyre. Different to MacDonald or McDonald, for that matter.
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Jon Jay, weather forecasts are notorious for verbal padding and inexactness. One forecaster said "there will be 12 inches of snow. That's about a foot".
On the other hand I have a treasured recording of a Radio 3 announcer reading the weather forecast, ending with the phrase "...some sunshine. It actually says 'shoeshine' on my script, so with any luck, you might get a nice light tan".
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Doesn't matter whether it's Mc or Mac in McIntyre - English speakers still stress the first syllable MC -intyre, or MAC - intyre. It's not the spelling, no cause, it's the pronunciation.
English pronunciation of non-English names or other words can indeed have some peculiarities - you can see it all over Ireland in the anglicised placenames. It is both a sad and annoying ,historical phenomenon which the government attempts to overcome by having dual roadsigns as you are entering towns, for example.
I'd really like to know the most ridiculous anglicisation of an Irish placename.
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One of the first that springs to mind is Dun na Gall. Very nice in Irish...but it becomes something like DONNY Gaul in anglicisation. Sounds ridiculous. Great singer was Donny Gaul.
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?? Wasn't that my point DD?
If the name is McIntyre I would pronounce it Mc In Tire
If the name is MacIntyre I would pronounce it Mac In Tire
It is not overly complex.
BTW MacIntyre comes from the Gaelic "Mac an t-saoir" meaning "son of the carpenter. I don't think you would ever see the names written in Gaelic as Mc (but I could be wrong).
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I believe we're conducting this discussion in English NCfA.
It's a bit strange in a traditional music forum to see such irritation with the way the "common people" speak but I suppose we have to get it off our collective chest.
Or should that be "chests"?
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The original complainant was on about English speakers getting the syllable stress wrong. Your point is fine, I don't think it is addressing the same point that I was on about. Phew! Not that you have to or anything.
So, while we're on it, what syllable would you stress in McIntyre...or MacIntyre.
(That's what the original post was about.)
"I don't think you would ever see the names written in Gaelic as Mc"
That's my point too.
Why?
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My comment was also about the general trend of the conversation.
there are solid linguistic and cultural reasons why certain people say things like"fillum" and "nucular" and it's not all down to stupidity and ignorance
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Baile an Fheirtéaraigh becomes Ballyferriter in anglicisation.
Wow, must have given them a headache getting that one "sorted".
Q. "What was that you said"
A. Baile an Fheirtearaigh.
Q. Ballyferriter was it, lad?
A. Baile an Fheirtearaigh, Sir.
A. Ballyferriter! Right then. Speak up lad. Stop mumbling!
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Wexford comes from the Norse Weis Fiord though.
Whenever I am in Ireland I tend to get preoccupied by fiuguring out what county a particular car comes from by the Gaelic name on the plate - Wicklow and Wexford always had me baffled.
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so what's the solid linguistic and cultural reason why it should be pronounced "nucular"? Apart from the fact that you might be President of some country then?
(This'll be good.)
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DD, quite simply, people from certain backgrounds have trouble combining certain consonants (as native English speakers do when trying, say, Russian words).
Older Irish, for example, or even my parents who were third generation Australian, are often derided for saying "fillum" or "athaletics" (as the English ear hears it) but as far as I can tell, it's quite common and for all I know may be a relic of their ancestors' gradual conversion from Irish to English language
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That's a relief. As I recall, George Bush said that he pronounced nuclear as "nucular" because he didn't get a very good primary school education, and never got taught phonics.
No problem, not that important when you're President I guess. Still scarey though.
Yes, some of my folks in previous generations used to say fillum, and trayen (for train) eg. They were only one or two generations in as well.
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representing it as "fillum" is also a bit ignorant when they are really saying "fil-m" - that is pronouncing the two consonants distinctly as opposed to eliding them.
A lot of Indians and Chinese that I work with will say "flim" which is the best they can do with it.
I don't believe we learn our speech habits from phonics lessons as a rule though, so I'm a bit suspicious of that GWB quote! Good lord, it would be like learning trad music from the dots!
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Well, breaking secrecy protocol here, my name is McAbee and it’s always been pronounced MAK-a-Bee. I’ve also known lots of McAfees and they all pronounced their name, MAK-a-Fee. Until around 20-30 years ago, I very rarely heard either name mispronounced, perhaps because I’ve always lived in the Southeastern US, where most of us have Scots-Irish roots.
Even the fast-food company, McDonald’s, used to be pronounced MacDonald’s in their advertisements. Hence, the Big Mac. What I have observed over my lifetime is the gradual acceptance of a tacit “rule” that Mc = mic. In fact, Mc was, for untold generations, simply an abbreviation for Mac. Now, when a stranger pronounces my name correctly on the first try, I want to shake his hand and buy him a drink.
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I wouldn't say it's ignorant representing it like that, Bren, if what you're doing is trying to phonetically reproduce what you hear.
Don't worry about that. You know the English did it in Ireland for centuries - just look at all the placenames. You wouldn't call that ignorant would you?
(There is only one syllable in the English word "film" - some languages wouldn't have a stand-alone "m" as a syllable, so they might tend to put a vowel in before it. Seems reasonable to me, if you're trying to learn a new language, especially if you're not allowed any longer to speak your own.
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In some early Australian documents, "MacDonald" etc is represented as "M'donald"
I'd agree with Bob that Mc is also an abbreviation of "Mac" and was probably meant to come out that way, but now a lot of us tend to say "Mic" .
I blame universal literacy - we often read words before we hear them now so we try to extrapolate pronunciation from spelling, which is the reverse of the etymological process.
I think ....
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DD, what I'm saying is there is also only one syllable in "fil-m" but it sounds like two syllables to ears not used to hearing the consonants enunciated clearly.
A bit like Aussies might hear Scots say "Pairrith" or "Cairrins" for Perth and Cairns
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"In some early Australian documents "MacDonald" etc is represented as "M'Donald".
What documents would they have been? Ship immigration records circa 1788 written down by an English soldier who was writing down what he thought he heard?
What's the "etc" bit?
I've never heard anyone pronouncing the name as in MickDonald - what's the "mic" thing all about.
It's Mac - or Mc. "a" or nothing.
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Someone who pronounces film as fillum would simply be pronouncing the word according to the linguistic rules for syllable pronunciation that they were brought up with.
No, Bren, Australians can understand Scots when they say Perth or Cairns. Australian English notably has a very soft (almost non-existent to some) "r" sound. There would be plenty of accents around the south east of England which do the same. Australians can well tell the difference, if there is an "r" in the word, the vowel before it usually gets lengthened. That's how they tell the difference between Cairns and cans.
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"I blame universal literacy - we often read words before we hear them now so we try to extrapolate pronunciation from spelling, which is the reverse of the etymological process."
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Nah, I know where you're coming from, Bren. As usual.
You mean this guy:
"Steele Rudd was the pseudonym of Arthur Hoey Davis (14 November 1868 – 11 October 1935)
“In 1889 he was transferred to the sheriff's office and in his spare time took up rowing and when he began writing a column on rowing in a weekly paper and needed a pseudonym he adopted "Steele Rudder", the first name from the English essayist Richard Steele,”
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">In some parts of Glasgow there is the habit of adding the >word 'but' to the end of a sentence as in, "You know what I >mean but?"
Of course. That's Glasgow English - or Glasgow Scots, if you prefer. 'But' replaces 'though' as used in 'standard' English. Grammar is much more complex than what we're taught in school. At the higher levels of linguistics, people are rewriting grammar to accommodate all the 'irregularities' in regional speech, not trying to iron them out so that our speech follows schoolbook grammar.
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ragaman--
way back there you asked me a question about "sort of." It's a new usage that bothers me, not the "normal" place-holder utterances we all use.
What I notice is younger intellectual types who use it to temper the discomfort of making a declarative assertion, and/or to suggest a fascinating multi-valance in their observation. It's especially glaring when following the word "really" or "very." Sometimes you get all three; "It's really very sort of alarming . . ." Listen to an interview with a young author, artist, actor, director etc. and you'll hear it.
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DD.
>I don't think you would, ramble, if you pronounced a >strong "DON" in that word - you might think you do pronounce >a strong Mac in that case, but you don't, it would be the same >as Mc. In English, the syllable is either stressed or it isn't, >and that is usually indicated by the nature of the syllables >around it,
Sorry DD, but I've just said the word a dozen or so times and I say macdonald as in "Mac"donald. I can say "mcdonalds" as in the "restuarant", but I usually forget and just pronounce it the same as the family name.
I think your basic arguement is a gross oversimplification anyway, you keep talking about "English speakers" as if everyone who speaks english can be lumped together into one category.
I do "think" I pronounce a stong mac. You may continue to think that I don't (and please feel free to do so ).
I've just listened to myself, whilst I may not be enitely unbiased listener, at least I've heard a sample of my speech, not to mention heard the names in question pronounced in ordinary conversation by the people around me. And Macdonald is generally pronounced with an "a" in the first syllable.
Maybe as bren hinted you can't hear the differences in stresses between different subsets of english speakers, and so wouldn't hear the "a" anyway. But I can hear it.
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When I was a kid my stepmother used to say
"And so on and so forth" all the time.
She would start a thought and then finish the
thought with "and so on and so forth"
So we kids started saying it as much as possible
like: "This trip reminds me of the road out of
Yosemite, and so on and so forth"
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What a lovely thread. Thanks for the chance to vent my spleen. I loathe EXPERIENCE, as in "Entering into your real estate experience" which is what the agent has e-mailed when I asked about a house for sale. I also ate some chocolate tonight " which delivers a blend of the dark chocolate experience". I ate some chocolate. I did not go and have an "experience".
This distancing of oneself from voluntary direct action to being acted upon by having an experience instead is becoming widespread.
I have posted this to the mustard board.Or did I just have a mustard board posting experience?
Has anyone else, dare I say, "experienced" this problem?
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I don’t pronounce McDonald and MacDonald any differently. Never have. As I was growing up, I learned, from the usage of practically everyone around me, that “McDonald” and “MacDonald” were just different spellings of the same word. It was only a few years ago that I read academic historical support for that notion.
In my home town, there were families named McFall. Everybody pronounced it either as mak-FALL or MAK-fall. Today, it’s more likely to be pronounced mik-FALL. Recently, a young man pronounced my name MIK-a-bee.
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"Macdonald is generally pronounced with an "a" in the first syllable."
I think I pronounce it with a schwa* (the 'uh' vowel found in the final syllables of 'onion', 'butter', 'London', ' Birmingham' [English pronunciation] etc.) - as I would for most 'Mc' and 'Mac' names (regardless of spelling). There are certain exceptions, where there is a primary stress (e.g. McIntyre, McEvoy, McElvogue) on the Mc or Mac, where I would pronouce it with an 'a' - or a secondary stress** (e.g. McNamara, McLinnane).
*The schwa only ever occurs in unstressed syllables in English, so far as I am aware.
**There is a tendency for English to follow a rising-falling stress pattern on polysyllabic words. While the primary stress may occur on any syllable, the adjacent syllables are always unstressed and, usually, the remaining syllables are alternately stressed (with a secondary stress) and unstressed:
COMP, li CAT' ion
con FAB, u LAT' ion
PAL' est INE,
be LAT' ed
or stressed syllables may be separated or followed by more than one unstressed syllable:
CAT' a ma RAN,
phil AN' der er
MES, o pot A' mi a
N.B. Primary stress is indicated by an apostrophe and secondary stress by a comma.
I don't know what any of this has to do with traditional music, or even this thread but I enjoyed writing it.
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Bob, I'm liking my experience of your experience.
My favourite one is "solutions" - as in "Logistics solutions" (ie moving stuff around) or any other variant of that. The weirdest one is in my local Tesco: "Meal solutions" which always gives me an image of a rather lumpy soup-like thing in a tin.
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Bit I'd say ap - PLIC - a - ble. Well I think I would, but once you think about it, it's not spontaneous any more. Perhaps I need more to occupy my mind.
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
I just stopped by to say that I could have WENT to go have breakfast, but instead, I done GONE and read this crappy thread. Now I'm hungry and late, but on the plus side, hopefully I've enraged some grammar fascists.
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
You are not even very good at bad grammar SWFL. If you are using "went" instead of "gone" then why add the "go". Simply, "I could have went to have breakfast" would have sufficed.
I was always annoyed by a friend growing up when he would ask me to "borrow him" something instead of "lend him" something. I also hate when people say, "I seen that" particularly when it is a primary school teacher to her class!
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
While reading through this thread, someone called and requested a "rundown" on the condition of one of our patients. In the twelve years I have been working at this job, that is the first time anyone has asked me for a "rundown" on a patient.
If you "tump something over" here, that means you have knocked something down.
Jack Yellen and Milton Ager, who co-wrote the famous song "Ain't She Sweet" both graduated the same year from the same high school. When they went to one of their high school reunions, they were celebrities because they had written such a famous and well-known song. However, their high school English teacher was at the reunion and she was not impressed. She didn't hesitate to scold both Yellen and Ager in front of their classmates for using the word "Ain't" in their hit song because she thought it was bad grammar.
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
"At the end of the day" and "having said that" are my two current favorite phrases to hate.
Of long standing, I hate the use of "impact" as a verb, referring to a woman as a female (a female what?). Then, when "female" should be used, these same idiots use "woman," as in "a woman-owned business."
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
People round here (Cambridge UK) put "at all" on the end of sentences, as in "have you had a look at the mustard board today at all?" or "have you had your fiddle practice today at all?" (please note that "have you had time to practiSe your fiddle today at all?" has an "s" in practise 'cos it's a verb). Also they say "for me" rather curiously when asking you to do something like "go and take a seat over there for me". Very odd.
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Having a nice conversation the other day with a person I recently met at work..
him- Hispanic
me-white as rice...or something....anyway he mentioned a town in central Pa called Garrysburg and as I looked confused, never having herd of Garrysburg, he started describing how to get there. Idiot that I am, and sometimes slow to catch on, I ask "Is that near Gettysgurg?" and before the second syllable came out I knew what he was saying. It was awkward. H
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
SWFL,
You don't live in the South, you live in Florida. So many Yankees have moved to Florida over the years, it stopped being a Southern state a long time ago!
I remember being in a big conference a few years ago, where visitors from the South kept talking about the city of Wer-chester, Massachusetts. We all looked at them blankly until someone spoke up, "Oh, I bet you mean Woostah! (The city is Worchester, but the R's are generally silent when locals pronounce it.)
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Some of the uses of language to which people objecting aare examples of local dialect of long standing.
In speech this is not incorrect usage of english spoken in that dialect.
Would you rather everyone were forced to speak "the Queen's English" in some official version? Should the local dialects and speech patterns of the word be rooted out and ethnically cleansed?
Perhaps we should all stick to the old maxim "speak English like a gentleman". It was good enough to help in the attempt to eradicate Gaelic. Maybe it could also serve as a slogan it getting rid of the local variants of English that some poeple would object to.
It wouldn't be an approach that I personally would favour, by the way, but.
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Irish Speak such as 'I'm just after playing that tune' when it should be 'I've just played that tune' . Even so called educated broadcasters use the word as in 'I'm after spilling my drink' for ' I've just spilled my drink'. The we have 'I passed him out on the road' for 'I overtook him on the road'. I've even heard solicitors in court dealing with driving offences speak like that. I recently heard a well known journalist on TV speak of a man who was drowned as 'the man was drown-it' One day we will eventually come to grips with the English language. I blame the schools. Tanks for listening.
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
“...I can't think of any example of an English word in which more than two unstressed syllables occur adjacently.”
"What about...
applicable (I was taught to say AP-plic-a-ble)
authoritarianism"
Well spotted, Bob. You could perhaps find tertiary stresses on the penultimate syllables if you listened very carefully. But I fear I'd be fighting a losing battle if I were to state this as fact.
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
if two people were having this sort of extended conversation at a session most places a loud F##K UP would surley be heard. The only cure is reels im afraid and whiskey. yeo
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Well said, Chris. I enjoy the regional variations in English grammar and syntax.
That said, I find the imposition of "corporate-speak" that some posters were objecting to (i.e. "a mustard board posting experience") pretty bloody annoying. That's not regional variation -- it's probably detrimental to it.
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Well, Al is correct. Florida is basically just a collection of transplanted New Englanders, New Yorkers and Midwesterners. We even have the Red Sox in Fort Myers for Spring Training, so we all know how to say "Woburn" (WOO-burn) correctly.
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
My cardigan's almost done so I'll take time out and add this- I like diversity in language and culture. I don't like the pretentious use of language such as you get in a coorporate environment or the art world. I also don't like pretentious music and it somehow seems to go hand in hand. I love hearing intelligent people with American southern accents. There's an easy going musicallity to thier speach. On the other hand hearing a modern American Country Music song with a southern accent for some reason makes my skin crawl.
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
I was just listening to Seamus Ennis singing on that 1958 recording (see nearby thread), appreciating the 'irish english' in some songs, and thinking how nice it was when other peoples dialects, or different first languages, produce a nice turn of phrase, maybe an order of thinking of things, that would not be possible just using the " the Queen's english'.
Then I read Free Reeds post. Was that irony ? Fortunately the schools are not making too good a job of it. As the older folk say round here "some people just can't be learnt".
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Apart from musical hobbies I'm a bit of a Mountain walker and rock climber and it irritates me when our friends over the Pond say thaye are Aclimated when they REALLY mean aclimatised.
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
"Health and Safety" - a catch-all mantra too often misused as an excuse to,
1) not do something, or
2) forbid something, or
3) make people do something they'd much rather not do.
In each case the reasoning behind the edict is often obscure or down-right inaccessible.
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
A thought on the "Mac" v. "Mc" debate that occurred earlier in this thread:
I've been spending a lot of time reading 19th century mental asylum records and have found that in one document about a patient, they refer to him or her as Mac-something. Then in another document about the same patient, they will call him or her Mc-something. The only consistency is fairly consistent inconsistency.
"Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
"Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
G'day all,
Dennis Regan's "zouk" post has prompted me to write.
Its funny how words,phrases,nicknames etc. can annoy some folks..infuriate perhaps !
The thing that is really giving me the willies lately is......" Look "..
"Look" is used by Polititians,company spokesmen and women,spin doctors and anyone in some administrative position who's being interviewed..
The answer to the question is preceded by "Look" .... gggrrrrrrr !!
Goes like this....The question is asked and then the answer...."Look",I dont really want to go into specifics ...or..."Look", you'll have to ask someboby else ......ggggrrrr !
Anyone else overcome with grief by words and phrases ?
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by zoukboy
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
In my office this past week, we've been laughing about how every other person seems to be using the word "Exaaaaaaactly" over and over -- stretching out the "a" sound. Starting to really annoy one of my co-workers. Funny how some things get under your skin.
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by justwhistle
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
"How good is that?!" "Absolutely!"
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by Hup
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Look, this is exaaactly what I've been sayng. What we need, what is needed, right now, in this organization/town/city/county/state/country....is more TRANSPARENCY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by shanty
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Computer geeks say "actually" and "let's go ahead and..." repeatedly.
Whenever I am compelled to listen to them, I make it a game to count how many times they say each. It helps me pay attention. Try it if you have the misfortune.
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by feardearg
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Too right Hup,that one really sh*ts me as well ...
Ab-so-loooooooootly ...
Also....."The reality is" ...
And.......a favourite amongst Footy players and other sporty types is,...."Yeah,no" ..this is usually given before an answer in the same manner as
"Look"....gggrrrrr !
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by zoukboy
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Jeez,I think I might sign on for the next series of Grumpy Old Men !!
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by zoukboy
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
"open communication" Usually followed by a big hoe in. Must be getting grumpy too.
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by Clear Drops
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Why do people use "utilise" as a word when use would be a perfect utilisation of English usage.
I don't know.
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by mcknowall
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Not wanting to do something because it is a "social construct"
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
"look" is something of an Australianism zoukboy, though it's also used elsewhere. "Look, I don't know ..."
same with "yeh, no ...." or "No, yeh ...." something I also notice when I return to Australia. Quite charming although you're never quite sure if the person's agreeing or disagreeing until you're some way into the sentence .. but that also seems to be gaining ground elsewhere.
Extreme example - Vicki Pollard in Little Britain with her "yebbut nobbut ...."
Last but not least if the excellent Roger Landes (aka zoukboy on other forums such as mandolincafe.com) is happy with the term Zouk, then so am I, although I'd feela wkward saying it out loud.
But then I wouldn't say "ITM" either
Writing is a different KoF
http://www.myspace.com/zoukboy
I think he organises "Zoukfest" as well
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by Bren
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
I hate "Awesome" and "Cool"(I gave up saying that in the late sixties)...
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by John J.
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Also, why is everything an "issue" these days when everyone knows it's just a big F***ing Problem!
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by John J.
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
People who use the word "zouk" and expressions like "look" and "exaaaaactly" are obviously comfortable in their own skin.
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by Steve L
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Look, moving forward, any issues will be dealt with through the appropriate channels. We've got a new paradigm here, it's time to think outside the box. We've all got to be team players and pitch in.
Sorry, this has all given me a bad corporate-speak flashback. I'm fine now. Carry on.
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
I think you have issues Jon Jay.
As do I, but hopefully they'll finish uni soon and be off our hands.
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by Bren
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
A few years ago, the only people who used the word "impacted" were dentists - now it has completed replaced "effected."
I also can't stand it when people (my fellow Americans) pronounce the word Height - "Heigth" with a "th" sound at the end.
It's width, length and HEIGHT fur fux sakes.
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Never heard that one Jusa - heighth
sounds a bit like a Cork accent
are you sure you didn't mean "affected" - to have an effect on as opposed to "effected" which means to make or bring about?
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by Bren
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Well,since this is a free-for-all I don't like triple injunctions;as in:'practise,practise,practise!'.
With exclamation marks or no.
Which leads on to the practice of multiple exclamation and question marks.
I blame Tony Blair for the trebles though.
All that education,education,education.
I'm sure I could get more picky over other things as well.
Just look what you've started,zoukboy.
You'll never hear the last of it.
I'm with you on the 'impact' too,J N A.
But then I am a grumpy old 'Uncle Mort' type with more than a hint of Ignatius P. Reilly.
Where will it all end?
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by biggus dave
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Still annoyed with WARSH instead of WASH as in WASHING your hands.
There is NO freakin' "R"!
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by Fishmonger
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Fishmonger,
I think they should take the R out of warsh and use it when they go to the "Ball Pack" to see the game.
Mary
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by Antikhntr
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
I had a cousin visit, he told me he'd gone into a shop, where the clerk commented on his accent. He told her he was from Cincinnati, and she laughed and asked him to say "watch". He said "watch". "Huh" she said, "Usually Cincinnati people say 'warsh'!"
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by fidkid
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Oh, and I cringe when people use the term "ITM" in actual conversation.
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by fidkid
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
I don't think I've ever heard anyone use it. How old was the person who said it to you?
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by Bren
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
The few times I've heard it, it was used by people whom I'd guess were late 20s - mid 30s. Interesting question, Bren. I've never heard a younger person -- or older person -- use it. I wouldn't be surprised to find out this board contributes to the expression.
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by fidkid
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
People tend these days to invent words and phrases which make them sound clever -
eg." we are in a rehearsal situation" - why not say "we're rehearsing."
The other thing is that whole job titles are just invented these days and therefore a new jargon has to be invented to legitimise these people - eg. "we need to get things into a position where we're moving forward" for "we need to get on with it".
Other such irritating and unnecessary phrases_
multi-tasking
learning curve
downtime
upgrade
etc etc
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by Dennis Regan
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
I hear what you're all saying, but at the end of the day it reflects where you are on your journey and may highlight challenging behaviour issues. You have to learn to live in the real world - we're in the twenty-first century, you know!
Otherwise, you'll be taken to Centres of Correction to be colonically irrigated with organic vindaloo and exfoliated with live dogfish.
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by nicholas
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Nice use of the alternate-speak there!
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by Dennis Regan
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
I'm not a lover of the use of the word 'definitive' especially when I'm being told by a 'Person playing records' that this is the definitive version of eg: The Mason's Apron. Would much prefer to hear 'a great version' Also don't like use of DJ for a person who gets big bucks for putting records on a turntable, and doesn't even have to wind up the gramophone.....Oops...nearly spilled my cocoa.
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by Free Reed
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Do accordion players think outside the box, and is it a good thing?
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by Mark Harmer
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Another one that p*sses me off is "my job description".........
And another is "homemaker"
And..."life partner".....
and................
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by Dennis Regan
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
. . . as you know,
less is more.
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by ʎɹoʇısuɐɹʇ
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
I think it may be time to start a GRUMPY OLD MAN/WOMAN thread!!!!
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by Dennis Regan
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
One that originated with F1 drivers is "winningest" - what the f u c k kinda way is that to use a word!!!!!
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by Dennis Regan
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Nicholas,I'll give the vindaloo a miss but I say to you:more of the exfoliating dogfish.
Just be careful not to end up like the emperor Tiberius.
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by biggus dave
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Well, folks, all I can add is "IT IS WHAT IT IS". ;)
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by justwhistle
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
If this really troubles you, please ensure you "reach out" and ask for help.
Unless you do, we can have no "visibility" into the problem
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by grego
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Can't stand it when people people sprinkle "sort of" senselessly. Typical locution: "This role is really sort of unique in its sort of deconstruction of romantic illusions."
Also, the use of "up" as a verb. "Up your sizzle!"
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by 54321
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Wanting to do something because it is "traditional."
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
"Whenever I am compelled to listen to them, I make it a game to count how many times they say each. It helps me pay attention. Try it if you have the misfortune"
Feardearg, you do not have to suffer alone.
http://www.hjsv.com/games/bingo/index.html
# Posted on August 2nd 2009 by All Moldy
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
"LIKE, I was going to the mall yesterday, and LIKE, this old guy pulled out in front of me and, LIKE, I'm "dude I'm texting here!", and he LIKE, glared at me really, LIKE, YOU KNOW, what's your problem, YOU KNOW?"
I hate that $#!^ with the power of a thousands suns!
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by eisdear
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Yes.... "Like" ,that's another painfull one is'nt it .
The person who is surprised by something... " And I was like,oh my gaaaarrrd that was sooo aahhhsome "
Grrrr !
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by zoukboy
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
That just reminded me how much I hate the "Oh my gawd" hackneyed phrase that alot of people just spontaneously erupt with when something surprises or horrifies them.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Bredna
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
"Also, why is everything an "issue" these days when everyone knows it's just a big F***ing Problem!"
It's ceased to be an issue around here... now it's an "opportunity". As in "Houston, we have an opportunity..."
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Yes! Yes! A Thousand times, yes! How I hate to hear "Oh My God" and "...like...", I will add the sentences beginning with "WAIT!" or even more awful... "Wait! What?..." that is strictly forbidden in my classroom. And my brain explodes on the rare occasions when I hear, all at once..."What! What? whatever..."
That's good for 50 pushups...
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
"Whatever"
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Greenwiggle
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
sooner rather than later - what is wrong with soon
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by black
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
In some parts of Glasgow there is the habit of adding the word 'but' to the end of a sentence as in, "You know what I mean but?"
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
NCFA
In the north-east of England (where my in-laws live) I've noticed something similar. They add "tho' but" to the end of the sentence. I even notice my husband revert to doing it when we visit there. I find it quite endearing.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by sashiko calico
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
They do the "but" thing in Australia too
Glasgow has so many -isms though, know what I mean by the way big man? Like "has went"
Watching the excellent "Man on Wire" on BBc last night, I noticed one of his NYC accomplices, a Jim Moore , say "heighth"
Wouldn't have thought anything of it, but for this thread!
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Bren
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
"Identify"
As the conductor guard said on a train journey recently...
"I've *identified* a space where you can store your luggage. You can't leave it here!"
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by John J.
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
I do not mean that the expression irritates me greatly, at least not to the hair-ripping out extent that some folk on here seem to be at with other things. It is just an observable characteristic which is interesting if odd.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
I used to have a colleague who would always interrupt a conversation with a question in the form:
"Question" (then a really irritating pause, followed by his question)
I wonder if he's still alive?
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Mark Harmer
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
In Inverness, they say "You know yourself".....
If we knew, we wouldn't be asking!
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by John J.
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
They say that in Ireland as well, John.
My other pet peeve is the exchange that is "How are you?" "Fine."
The answer is *always* fine. Some comedian -- Dylan Moran maybe -- had a great sketch about this, saying that all sorts of terrible things could have befallen you but the person asking the question has zero interest in the answer. It is just a meaningless small talk conversation. Would be far better to ask about the weather.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
One person makes a complaint against another and the person who is being complained against has to thank the complainer - as in:
"Thank you for giving me the opportunity to address........."
What a heap of crap!!!!!!!
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Dennis Regan
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
The creeping in of the Aussie upturn at the end of a sentence so that everything sounds like a question.
And....the pronunciation of "good" as "gid".
Ya know, this thread is very therapeutic
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Dennis Regan
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
"Can't stand it when people people sprinkle "sort of" senselessly."
54321 - Are you talking about broadcasters and public speakers or about everyday, colloquial speech?
I think, if we had sound recordings dating far enough back, we would probably discover that people were using idioms like 'sort of', 'kind of', 'like', 'know what I mean' etc., back in the 19th Century, the Middle Ages and beyond. They might not have used exactly the same words, but they would almost certainly have had equivalent 'meaningless' expressions. I do not think they represent any sort of linguistic decay, but rather, serve an essential function in everyday spoken language.
Broadcasting, in terms of the history of language as a whole, is a very new phenomenon indeed. When it first emerged, the broadcasting companies (the BBC, at least - I cannot speak for other countries or languages) attempted to culture a variety of speech specially reserved for wireless. As broadcasting has become a more integral part of our society, so the need for a special 'broadcasting speak' has lessened In early 20th Century Britain, local dialects were stronger and broadcast sound quality was much poorer, so there was an especial need for clarity of speech and for a regionally neutral variety of English* in order for broadcasts to be readily understood by everybody.
Of course, you still have the right to be annoyed.
*This is not to say that there were not already regionally neutral varieties of English in existence before broadcasting began - just that such varieties were *chosen* and developed for broadcasting.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
"LIKE, I was going to the mall yesterday, and LIKE, this old guy pulled out in front of me and, LIKE, I'm "dude I'm texting here!", and he LIKE, glared at me really, LIKE, YOU KNOW, what's your problem, YOU KNOW?"
I was wondering when someone would mention these. i don't know why i ever sent my children to school in the States (living in Europe) because they all came back saying 'ya know" every 5th word. It's a hard habit to break too. I mean - "like" when you're being intrviewed for a job But i guess it's taken for granted these days. When I was young we were reprimanded for saying "How come?" instead of "why?".
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by C. Nicolas
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Do you notice that newsreaders etc still use phrases such at "At about" , "In about" , "At around" and so on.
The even will happen either "At" or "about" a certain time and not both!!!
Amazingly, they've been saying this for years. I remember having been corrected for this error about 40 years ago and I had picked up the habit from The BBC back then!
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by John J.
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
>In some parts of Glasgow there is the habit of adding the >word 'but' to the end of a sentence as in, "You know what I >mean but?"
I grew up near falkirk, with glaswegian parents.
I remember one day at schools my friends pointing out I put "but" at the end of a sentence: my natural response (as in without deliberate thought) was "where else would you put it, but?"
- chris
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
>are you sure you didn't mean "affected" - to have an effect on >as opposed to "effected" which means to make or bring >about?
I typed that very question this morning, paused and deleted it.
Jusa's original post did confuse me for a moment or two until I realised it was an e for a switch.
- chris
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
>I used to have a colleague who would always interrupt a >conversation with a question in the form:
>"Question" (then a really irritating pause, followed by his >question)
>I wonder if he's still alive
used to be an engineer form somehwer in the north of england would come up to maintain some equipment in my last job. Very helpful, thorough guy, but he did want you to stand with him all day while he talked you through everything.
He would turn everything, *everything* into a little person:
"What we need now is to put Mr Plug into Mrs socket."
"do I need Mr labcoat to work in this room"
"where is Mr Tearoom, mrs lunc would like to visit"
"ah, all we need now is Mr pen and a quick signature for his friend Mr Form"
Every sentence. All day. Every visit.
Somedays if I'd been in a lift with only one bullet and the both of them, I'd have shot him before Thatcher.
- chris
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Look, basically, you know, I'm Phoney Bliar and at the end of the day, I have created so much warfare, in real terms, over a dodgy dossier, of which nothing will be ruled in or ruled out, that I want to draw a line under it and move on.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by geoffwright
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Presidents and other similarly ranked people who say "nucular" instead of nuclear? That's really scarey like? Upwardly mobile rednecks like? Y'know?
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
A particular F1 commentator who likes to imagine what the driver will be thinking at any given time, as in:
" He'll be sitting there now going 'ok, well if you think you're going past me on that side I'm going to have to stop you any way I can'."
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Dennis Regan
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
“Do accordion players think outside the box, and is it a good thing?”
I choked on my tea laughing at that.
Some of my favorite irritants:
Using “begs the question” to mean “raises the question.” It especially annoys me to hear broadcasters do this.
The “Appellation” Mountains. It’s “Apple-at-chun”, folks. Named after the Apalachee people.
Pronouncing ALL of the Mc names as mick-whatever. McAfee is pronounced MAK-a-fee, not mick-A-fee.
Funny how this works me up better than jogging around the building.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Bob himself
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Bob h, that's just a peculiarity of the English language (another one like!) when applied to non-English pronunciation protocols ("for want of a better term"). Mc in English, "correct me if I'm wrong" is usually, if not always, pronounced without an audible 'a'...It is actually presented as such in the spelling of Mc - no 'a'...so English speakers will pronounce it like that: mc, not mac. If they do that, then the "unspoken convention" in English will be that there won't be any other unstressed syllable in the word, hence, you'll always get mcAfee, rather than MAKa-fee, in this example.
Makes you wonder why there was ever a spelling difference between Mc and Mac doesn't it. Doesn't it?
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
"Brilliant" is a word that is used out of context way too much - especially around Ireland and England. I wonder if the Guinness commercials have cured that...
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Reverend
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
I don't know DD, I'd pronounce something like "MacDonald" or MacIntyre with a definate (though not overly stressed) Mac.
- chris
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
I don't think you would, ramble, if you pronounced a strong "DON" in that word - you might think you do pronounce a strong Mac in that case, but you don't, it would be the same as Mc. In English, the syllable is either stressed or it isn't, and that is usually indicated by the nature of the syllables around it, whether they are stressed or not. English words have only one stressed syllable in each word. Don't get confused either, with long vowel sounds posing as stressed syllables e.g. the word "unique" - the stressed syllable in that word is the "NI", not the "u".
In the case of MacDonald, you would be saying, I am pretty sure, Mc- DON -ld, not MAC -donld. Wouldn't you be?
Whether you pronounce Mc as Mc or Mac, doesn't change your stress of the syllable DON, in that example.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
In your other example, MacIntyre, yes, you're stressing the MAC, and that is how, I believe that name is pronounced - MAC-intyre. Different to MacDonald or McDonald, for that matter.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
But you can also get McIntyre.
I pronounce Mc as Mc and Mac as Mac and none of it is a peculiarity of the English language - seeing as they are Scottish names!
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Jon Jay, weather forecasts are notorious for verbal padding and inexactness. One forecaster said "there will be 12 inches of snow. That's about a foot".
On the other hand I have a treasured recording of a Radio 3 announcer reading the weather forecast, ending with the phrase "...some sunshine. It actually says 'shoeshine' on my script, so with any luck, you might get a nice light tan".
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Mark Harmer
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Doesn't matter whether it's Mc or Mac in McIntyre - English speakers still stress the first syllable MC -intyre, or MAC - intyre. It's not the spelling, no cause, it's the pronunciation.
English pronunciation of non-English names or other words can indeed have some peculiarities - you can see it all over Ireland in the anglicised placenames. It is both a sad and annoying ,historical phenomenon which the government attempts to overcome by having dual roadsigns as you are entering towns, for example.
I'd really like to know the most ridiculous anglicisation of an Irish placename.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
One of the first that springs to mind is Dun na Gall. Very nice in Irish...but it becomes something like DONNY Gaul in anglicisation. Sounds ridiculous. Great singer was Donny Gaul.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
?? Wasn't that my point DD?
If the name is McIntyre I would pronounce it Mc In Tire
If the name is MacIntyre I would pronounce it Mac In Tire
It is not overly complex.
BTW MacIntyre comes from the Gaelic "Mac an t-saoir" meaning "son of the carpenter. I don't think you would ever see the names written in Gaelic as Mc (but I could be wrong).
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
I believe we're conducting this discussion in English NCfA.
It's a bit strange in a traditional music forum to see such irritation with the way the "common people" speak but I suppose we have to get it off our collective chest.
Or should that be "chests"?
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Bren
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
That would be Dún na nGall.
What about Wicklow? - Cill Mhantáin
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
The original complainant was on about English speakers getting the syllable stress wrong. Your point is fine, I don't think it is addressing the same point that I was on about. Phew! Not that you have to or anything.
So, while we're on it, what syllable would you stress in McIntyre...or MacIntyre.
(That's what the original post was about.)
"I don't think you would ever see the names written in Gaelic as Mc"
That's my point too.
Why?
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
I am not irritated by the way the "common people" speak. I just brought up an example in light of the general trend of the conversation.
My earliest comment on this thread was an example of what can annoy me.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
there was an old woman of Loch Garman ... nah.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Bren
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
My comment was also about the general trend of the conversation.
there are solid linguistic and cultural reasons why certain people say things like"fillum" and "nucular" and it's not all down to stupidity and ignorance
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Bren
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Baile an Fheirtéaraigh becomes Ballyferriter in anglicisation.
Wow, must have given them a headache getting that one "sorted".
Q. "What was that you said"
A. Baile an Fheirtearaigh.
Q. Ballyferriter was it, lad?
A. Baile an Fheirtearaigh, Sir.
A. Ballyferriter! Right then. Speak up lad. Stop mumbling!
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
i have said how I would pronounce them. It is hard to analyse but I would say in MacIntyre I have 2 points of emphasis.
Ma and Kin
In McIntyre I am stressing the Mc more.
I suppose the difference is in Mac (at least in the example of MacIntyre) I may be stressing the C as the start of the next syllable. Not sure really.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Wexford comes from the Norse Weis Fiord though.
Whenever I am in Ireland I tend to get preoccupied by fiuguring out what county a particular car comes from by the Gaelic name on the plate - Wicklow and Wexford always had me baffled.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
so what's the solid linguistic and cultural reason why it should be pronounced "nucular"? Apart from the fact that you might be President of some country then?
(This'll be good.)
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
It is a bit difficult, no cause, until you get your ear around what the English language does to your head, or your ears maybe.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
DD, quite simply, people from certain backgrounds have trouble combining certain consonants (as native English speakers do when trying, say, Russian words).
Older Irish, for example, or even my parents who were third generation Australian, are often derided for saying "fillum" or "athaletics" (as the English ear hears it) but as far as I can tell, it's quite common and for all I know may be a relic of their ancestors' gradual conversion from Irish to English language
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Bren
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
That's a relief. As I recall, George Bush said that he pronounced nuclear as "nucular" because he didn't get a very good primary school education, and never got taught phonics.
No problem, not that important when you're President I guess. Still scarey though.
Yes, some of my folks in previous generations used to say fillum, and trayen (for train) eg. They were only one or two generations in as well.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
representing it as "fillum" is also a bit ignorant when they are really saying "fil-m" - that is pronouncing the two consonants distinctly as opposed to eliding them.
A lot of Indians and Chinese that I work with will say "flim" which is the best they can do with it.
I don't believe we learn our speech habits from phonics lessons as a rule though, so I'm a bit suspicious of that GWB quote! Good lord, it would be like learning trad music from the dots!
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Bren
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Well, breaking secrecy protocol here, my name is McAbee and it’s always been pronounced MAK-a-Bee. I’ve also known lots of McAfees and they all pronounced their name, MAK-a-Fee. Until around 20-30 years ago, I very rarely heard either name mispronounced, perhaps because I’ve always lived in the Southeastern US, where most of us have Scots-Irish roots.
Even the fast-food company, McDonald’s, used to be pronounced MacDonald’s in their advertisements. Hence, the Big Mac. What I have observed over my lifetime is the gradual acceptance of a tacit “rule” that Mc = mic. In fact, Mc was, for untold generations, simply an abbreviation for Mac. Now, when a stranger pronounces my name correctly on the first try, I want to shake his hand and buy him a drink.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Bob himself
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Uh oh, now there's a line forming.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Bob himself
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
I wouldn't say it's ignorant representing it like that, Bren, if what you're doing is trying to phonetically reproduce what you hear.
Don't worry about that. You know the English did it in Ireland for centuries - just look at all the placenames. You wouldn't call that ignorant would you?
(There is only one syllable in the English word "film" - some languages wouldn't have a stand-alone "m" as a syllable, so they might tend to put a vowel in before it. Seems reasonable to me, if you're trying to learn a new language, especially if you're not allowed any longer to speak your own.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
In some early Australian documents, "MacDonald" etc is represented as "M'donald"
I'd agree with Bob that Mc is also an abbreviation of "Mac" and was probably meant to come out that way, but now a lot of us tend to say "Mic" .
I blame universal literacy - we often read words before we hear them now so we try to extrapolate pronunciation from spelling, which is the reverse of the etymological process.
I think ....
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Bren
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
DD, what I'm saying is there is also only one syllable in "fil-m" but it sounds like two syllables to ears not used to hearing the consonants enunciated clearly.
A bit like Aussies might hear Scots say "Pairrith" or "Cairrins" for Perth and Cairns
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Bren
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
"In some early Australian documents "MacDonald" etc is represented as "M'Donald".
What documents would they have been? Ship immigration records circa 1788 written down by an English soldier who was writing down what he thought he heard?
What's the "etc" bit?
I've never heard anyone pronouncing the name as in MickDonald - what's the "mic" thing all about.
It's Mac - or Mc. "a" or nothing.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
DD- You'll find it in Steele Rudd's stories, to name one easily accessible source.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Bren
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Someone who pronounces film as fillum would simply be pronouncing the word according to the linguistic rules for syllable pronunciation that they were brought up with.
No, Bren, Australians can understand Scots when they say Perth or Cairns. Australian English notably has a very soft (almost non-existent to some) "r" sound. There would be plenty of accents around the south east of England which do the same. Australians can well tell the difference, if there is an "r" in the word, the vowel before it usually gets lengthened. That's how they tell the difference between Cairns and cans.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
I don't think you're getting my point DD.
It's as much in the ears of the listener as the voice of the speaker
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Bren
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
"I blame universal literacy - we often read words before we hear them now so we try to extrapolate pronunciation from spelling, which is the reverse of the etymological process."
Bren, is that a bit like dots vs aural learning?
(I'll get my coat!!)
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Mark Harmer
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Too warm for coats up here today Mark, but I'm off anyway.
Before I leave, who here says "dower" for dour, and who says "doo-r" ?
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Bren
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Nah, I know where you're coming from, Bren. As usual.
You mean this guy:
"Steele Rudd was the pseudonym of Arthur Hoey Davis (14 November 1868 – 11 October 1935)
“In 1889 he was transferred to the sheriff's office and in his spare time took up rowing and when he began writing a column on rowing in a weekly paper and needed a pseudonym he adopted "Steele Rudder", the first name from the English essayist Richard Steele,”
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
"I've never heard anyone pronouncing the name as in MickDonald"
Really? At least in the US, it's extremely common.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Bob himself
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Dour = doo-er, for me, Bren.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Bob himself
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
"I blame universal literacy" - Bren.
Gee, Bren, that pesky universal education eh? Lucky it isn't reserved for those who vote for the right party eh?
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
bob, that's b*sh*te.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
This thread suggests we all have far too much time on our hands and that we don't know when we're well off.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by biggus dave
Musically . . .
When I do have time I enjoy playing music. cheers!
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
">In some parts of Glasgow there is the habit of adding the >word 'but' to the end of a sentence as in, "You know what I >mean but?"
Of course. That's Glasgow English - or Glasgow Scots, if you prefer. 'But' replaces 'though' as used in 'standard' English. Grammar is much more complex than what we're taught in school. At the higher levels of linguistics, people are rewriting grammar to accommodate all the 'irregularities' in regional speech, not trying to iron them out so that our speech follows schoolbook grammar.
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
"bob, that's b*sh*te."
What is?
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Bob himself
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
What a beautiful thing language is. Who would dare try to 'correct' Tommy Peoples' bowing?
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
I’m having trouble following you, Dubh. What did I say that’s “b*sh*te”?
# Posted on August 3rd 2009 by Bob himself
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
ragaman--
way back there you asked me a question about "sort of." It's a new usage that bothers me, not the "normal" place-holder utterances we all use.
What I notice is younger intellectual types who use it to temper the discomfort of making a declarative assertion, and/or to suggest a fascinating multi-valance in their observation. It's especially glaring when following the word "really" or "very." Sometimes you get all three; "It's really very sort of alarming . . ." Listen to an interview with a young author, artist, actor, director etc. and you'll hear it.
# Posted on August 4th 2009 by 54321
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
DD.
).
>I don't think you would, ramble, if you pronounced a >strong "DON" in that word - you might think you do pronounce >a strong Mac in that case, but you don't, it would be the same >as Mc. In English, the syllable is either stressed or it isn't, >and that is usually indicated by the nature of the syllables >around it,
Sorry DD, but I've just said the word a dozen or so times and I say macdonald as in "Mac"donald. I can say "mcdonalds" as in the "restuarant", but I usually forget and just pronounce it the same as the family name.
I think your basic arguement is a gross oversimplification anyway, you keep talking about "English speakers" as if everyone who speaks english can be lumped together into one category.
I do "think" I pronounce a stong mac. You may continue to think that I don't (and please feel free to do so
I've just listened to myself, whilst I may not be enitely unbiased listener, at least I've heard a sample of my speech, not to mention heard the names in question pronounced in ordinary conversation by the people around me. And Macdonald is generally pronounced with an "a" in the first syllable.
Maybe as bren hinted you can't hear the differences in stresses between different subsets of english speakers, and so wouldn't hear the "a" anyway. But I can hear it.
- chris
# Posted on August 4th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
When I was a kid my stepmother used to say
"And so on and so forth" all the time.
She would start a thought and then finish the
thought with "and so on and so forth"
So we kids started saying it as much as possible
like: "This trip reminds me of the road out of
Yosemite, and so on and so forth"
Sometimes it would be abbreviated to "and so on."
# Posted on August 4th 2009 by dogmageek
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
What a lovely thread. Thanks for the chance to vent my spleen. I loathe EXPERIENCE, as in "Entering into your real estate experience" which is what the agent has e-mailed when I asked about a house for sale. I also ate some chocolate tonight " which delivers a blend of the dark chocolate experience". I ate some chocolate. I did not go and have an "experience".
This distancing of oneself from voluntary direct action to being acted upon by having an experience instead is becoming widespread.
I have posted this to the mustard board.Or did I just have a mustard board posting experience?
Has anyone else, dare I say, "experienced" this problem?
# Posted on August 4th 2009 by mrs.b
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
I don’t pronounce McDonald and MacDonald any differently. Never have. As I was growing up, I learned, from the usage of practically everyone around me, that “McDonald” and “MacDonald” were just different spellings of the same word. It was only a few years ago that I read academic historical support for that notion.
In my home town, there were families named McFall. Everybody pronounced it either as mak-FALL or MAK-fall. Today, it’s more likely to be pronounced mik-FALL. Recently, a young man pronounced my name MIK-a-bee.
# Posted on August 4th 2009 by Bob himself
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
"Macdonald is generally pronounced with an "a" in the first syllable."
I think I pronounce it with a schwa* (the 'uh' vowel found in the final syllables of 'onion', 'butter', 'London', ' Birmingham' [English pronunciation] etc.) - as I would for most 'Mc' and 'Mac' names (regardless of spelling). There are certain exceptions, where there is a primary stress (e.g. McIntyre, McEvoy, McElvogue) on the Mc or Mac, where I would pronouce it with an 'a' - or a secondary stress** (e.g. McNamara, McLinnane).
*The schwa only ever occurs in unstressed syllables in English, so far as I am aware.
**There is a tendency for English to follow a rising-falling stress pattern on polysyllabic words. While the primary stress may occur on any syllable, the adjacent syllables are always unstressed and, usually, the remaining syllables are alternately stressed (with a secondary stress) and unstressed:
COMP, li CAT' ion
con FAB, u LAT' ion
PAL' est INE,
be LAT' ed
or stressed syllables may be separated or followed by more than one unstressed syllable:
CAT' a ma RAN,
phil AN' der er
MES, o pot A' mi a
N.B. Primary stress is indicated by an apostrophe and secondary stress by a comma.
I don't know what any of this has to do with traditional music, or even this thread but I enjoyed writing it.
# Posted on August 4th 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
...I can't think of any example of an English word in which more than two unstressed syllables occur adjacently.
# Posted on August 4th 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Bob, I'm liking my experience of your experience.
My favourite one is "solutions" - as in "Logistics solutions" (ie moving stuff around) or any other variant of that. The weirdest one is in my local Tesco: "Meal solutions" which always gives me an image of a rather lumpy soup-like thing in a tin.
# Posted on August 4th 2009 by Mark Harmer
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Oops - I meant "mrs b" - I was reading the screen upside-down, as usual.
# Posted on August 4th 2009 by Mark Harmer
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
“...I can't think of any example of an English word in which more than two unstressed syllables occur adjacently.”
What about...
applicable (I was taught to say AP-plic-a-ble)
authoritarianism
# Posted on August 4th 2009 by Bob himself
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Bit I'd say ap - PLIC - a - ble. Well I think I would, but once you think about it, it's not spontaneous any more. Perhaps I need more to occupy my mind.
# Posted on August 4th 2009 by minijackpot
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
* But
# Posted on August 4th 2009 by minijackpot
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
I'd say ap - PLIC - a - ble, too, now. But not without envisioning a stern glare from my eighth grade English teacher.
# Posted on August 4th 2009 by Bob himself
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Yes, it is a very cathartically life-changing experience, when all's said and done...and even before that! I can't stress that enough.
# Posted on August 4th 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
I just stopped by to say that I could have WENT to go have breakfast, but instead, I done GONE and read this crappy thread. Now I'm hungry and late, but on the plus side, hopefully I've enraged some grammar fascists.
# Posted on August 4th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
You are not even very good at bad grammar SWFL. If you are using "went" instead of "gone" then why add the "go". Simply, "I could have went to have breakfast" would have sufficed.
I was always annoyed by a friend growing up when he would ask me to "borrow him" something instead of "lend him" something. I also hate when people say, "I seen that" particularly when it is a primary school teacher to her class!
# Posted on August 4th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
HA! Lived in the South way too long. All the Yankee is just about washed out.
No Cause, was your friend OK with you borrowing him, as long as you put him back where you found him?
Occasionally, being a smoker, people ask me to borrow a cigarette, but I always tell them that I don't want it back when they're done.
# Posted on August 4th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
While reading through this thread, someone called and requested a "rundown" on the condition of one of our patients. In the twelve years I have been working at this job, that is the first time anyone has asked me for a "rundown" on a patient.
If you "tump something over" here, that means you have knocked something down.
Jack Yellen and Milton Ager, who co-wrote the famous song "Ain't She Sweet" both graduated the same year from the same high school. When they went to one of their high school reunions, they were celebrities because they had written such a famous and well-known song. However, their high school English teacher was at the reunion and she was not impressed. She didn't hesitate to scold both Yellen and Ager in front of their classmates for using the word "Ain't" in their hit song because she thought it was bad grammar.
# Posted on August 4th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
"ain't" is older English usage I believe.
# Posted on August 4th 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
"At the end of the day" and "having said that" are my two current favorite phrases to hate.
Of long standing, I hate the use of "impact" as a verb, referring to a woman as a female (a female what?). Then, when "female" should be used, these same idiots use "woman," as in "a woman-owned business."
That's enough for now.
# Posted on August 4th 2009 by Ailin
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
People round here (Cambridge UK) put "at all" on the end of sentences, as in "have you had a look at the mustard board today at all?" or "have you had your fiddle practice today at all?" (please note that "have you had time to practiSe your fiddle today at all?" has an "s" in practise 'cos it's a verb). Also they say "for me" rather curiously when asking you to do something like "go and take a seat over there for me". Very odd.
# Posted on August 4th 2009 by RichardB
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Well that's no good for me at all at all.
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by Bren
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Having a nice conversation the other day with a person I recently met at work..
him- Hispanic
me-white as rice...or something....anyway he mentioned a town in central Pa called Garrysburg and as I looked confused, never having herd of Garrysburg, he started describing how to get there. Idiot that I am, and sometimes slow to catch on, I ask "Is that near Gettysgurg?" and before the second syllable came out I knew what he was saying. It was awkward. H
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by shanty
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
hE APOLOGISED FOR POOR PRONUNCIATION AND i APOLOGISED FOR BEING STUPID
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by shanty
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
So let's not just bash people because they can't pronounce certain words.
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by shanty
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
SWFL,
You don't live in the South, you live in Florida. So many Yankees have moved to Florida over the years, it stopped being a Southern state a long time ago!
I remember being in a big conference a few years ago, where visitors from the South kept talking about the city of Wer-chester, Massachusetts. We all looked at them blankly until someone spoke up, "Oh, I bet you mean Woostah! (The city is Worchester, but the R's are generally silent when locals pronounce it.)
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by AlBrown
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Some of the uses of language to which people objecting aare examples of local dialect of long standing.
In speech this is not incorrect usage of english spoken in that dialect.
Would you rather everyone were forced to speak "the Queen's English" in some official version? Should the local dialects and speech patterns of the word be rooted out and ethnically cleansed?
Perhaps we should all stick to the old maxim "speak English like a gentleman". It was good enough to help in the attempt to eradicate Gaelic. Maybe it could also serve as a slogan it getting rid of the local variants of English that some poeple would object to.
It wouldn't be an approach that I personally would favour, by the way, but.
- chris
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Irish Speak such as 'I'm just after playing that tune' when it should be 'I've just played that tune' . Even so called educated broadcasters use the word as in 'I'm after spilling my drink' for ' I've just spilled my drink'. The we have 'I passed him out on the road' for 'I overtook him on the road'. I've even heard solicitors in court dealing with driving offences speak like that. I recently heard a well known journalist on TV speak of a man who was drowned as 'the man was drown-it' One day we will eventually come to grips with the English language. I blame the schools. Tanks for listening.
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by Free Reed
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
“...I can't think of any example of an English word in which more than two unstressed syllables occur adjacently.”
"What about...
applicable (I was taught to say AP-plic-a-ble)
authoritarianism"
Well spotted, Bob. You could perhaps find tertiary stresses on the penultimate syllables if you listened very carefully. But I fear I'd be fighting a losing battle if I were to state this as fact.
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
do u all think of these things whislt knitting cardigans
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
if two people were having this sort of extended conversation at a session most places a loud F##K UP would surley be heard. The only cure is reels im afraid and whiskey. yeo
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Well said, Chris. I enjoy the regional variations in English grammar and syntax.
That said, I find the imposition of "corporate-speak" that some posters were objecting to (i.e. "a mustard board posting experience") pretty bloody annoying. That's not regional variation -- it's probably detrimental to it.
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Well, Al is correct. Florida is basically just a collection of transplanted New Englanders, New Yorkers and Midwesterners. We even have the Red Sox in Fort Myers for Spring Training, so we all know how to say "Woburn" (WOO-burn) correctly.
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
My cardigan's almost done so I'll take time out and add this- I like diversity in language and culture. I don't like the pretentious use of language such as you get in a coorporate environment or the art world. I also don't like pretentious music and it somehow seems to go hand in hand. I love hearing intelligent people with American southern accents. There's an easy going musicallity to thier speach. On the other hand hearing a modern American Country Music song with a southern accent for some reason makes my skin crawl.
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by shanty
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Damn it! Almost out of mauve yarn!
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by shanty
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
I was just listening to Seamus Ennis singing on that 1958 recording (see nearby thread), appreciating the 'irish english' in some songs, and thinking how nice it was when other peoples dialects, or different first languages, produce a nice turn of phrase, maybe an order of thinking of things, that would not be possible just using the " the Queen's english'.
Then I read Free Reeds post. Was that irony ? Fortunately the schools are not making too good a job of it. As the older folk say round here "some people just can't be learnt".
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by David50
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
No, that somewhere else, here its "can't be learned"
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by David50
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Apart from musical hobbies I'm a bit of a Mountain walker and rock climber and it irritates me when our friends over the Pond say thaye are Aclimated when they REALLY mean aclimatised.
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by UKCITTERN
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
"Health and Safety" - a catch-all mantra too often misused as an excuse to,
1) not do something, or
2) forbid something, or
3) make people do something they'd much rather not do.
In each case the reasoning behind the edict is often obscure or down-right inaccessible.
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
A thought on the "Mac" v. "Mc" debate that occurred earlier in this thread:
I've been spending a lot of time reading 19th century mental asylum records and have found that in one document about a patient, they refer to him or her as Mac-something. Then in another document about the same patient, they will call him or her Mc-something. The only consistency is fairly consistent inconsistency.
# Posted on August 8th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: "Please Stop" ..and other Irritants..off topic musically.
Isn't "consistent inconsistency" a contradiction in terms? An oxymoron?
# Posted on August 8th 2009 by fauxcelt
..off topic
change alone is unchanging
# Posted on August 8th 2009 by Ben Steen