Yes, it could be the tune. Or how that tune sits on your particular instrument.
The Old Bush sat so logically on flute that I literally learned it in less that 15 minutes. Had never happened before and likely will never happen again.
Other tunes I've had to spend days & weeks on -- even after listening to them gillions of times to "internalize" them.
A lot of it depends on the tune, I think. If it is in a key that you're more used to playing in, it is easier than learning something in an unusual key.
And the structure of the tune is important too. If it was written in a way that falls naturally on your instrument, it's easier. If it has a lot of the common building blocks in Irish music, it is easier. But if it has a lot of "tricky" parts, that twist and turn in unexpected directions, it can be more difficult.
How familiar you are with the tune before you try learning to play it can make a big difference.
It also depends on your state of mind. I find that I learn tunes better in the morning than I do in the afternoon. But a little bit of whiskey, and being warmed up, sitting in an evening session puts me in a very receptive mode, and I can learn tunes even more quickly that way.
It's like any skill - sometimes you have your off days. Some days, my triplets are crisp as an iceberg lettuce - other days, they're like overcooked broccoli. Like you say, it's just one of those things.
As the Rev says, it also depends on the tune. If the tune contains familiar patterns of fingering/bowing/blowing/squeezing, then half the work's already done for you. The more tunes you learn, the more patterns you internalise and so, the less often you are confronted with a tune that contains unfamiliar patterns.
I have only ever learned 2 tunes by ear and i blame that on thesession.org (well the internet to be precise) I just find that if i really like a tune then i'll just search for the abc here.
Oh and Reverend i find that once i start on the whiskey i won't leave that bottle alone until i forget what the hell the buttons on the accordion do! The thing is you may well learn a tune on whiskey but would you remember it in the morning?
That’s a good point the Reverend made about a tune have many of the common ‘building blocks’ of this music. Recent compositions always (for me) fall into two categories, one where the newer tune is made up of familiar building blocks, and then the other kind which only play lip service to those familiar structures!
…and to answer the question, it’s like any skill, gets easier the more you do it. Rome wasn’t built in a day, insert cliché here, etc.
Or maybe it’s one of them there newfangled snazzy tunes someone just wrote yesterday to impress some member of the opposite sex. (hee hee)
Also, my brain will tell me when it’s time to learn the tune, or that I’m able to learn the tune. I diddle them to myself in my head, or out loud, without an instrument. “Oh…wow, that’s X, I bet I can play that now” and sure enough, because I could diddle it, I knew it.
...and conversely, if you can’t diddle it, chances are you can’t play it either!
...but if you can diddle it, it shouldn't be long until you can play it.
I find it's much easier--well, less difficult, more like--if the tune is being played on the same instrument that I play.
And of course if it's a tune I have heard often--another argument for listening to as much of The Music as you can stomach. If you listen a lot, you not only get more familiar with commonly used phrases, you also store a lot of whole tunes in your subconscious mind.
Has anybody ever tried hypnosis for learning tunes--or recovering them from the cobwebbed corners of the mind? Just curious.
Well, upmine3, they say that you should practice the way you play, so I try to hit the whiskey before practicing and learning tunes too
The hypnosis idea is interesting. I've never tried it. But I do get into a rather hypnotic state when I'm learning a tune, sometimes. I think it's a matter of real focused concentration. The problem is that it makes me sleepy, like meditation (or medication, for that matter), and so I get annoyed by the fact that I often feel like taking a nap after learning a tune...
Glad to see I'm not the only one with this issue. I also sometimes think I have a tune, because I can play it without looking at the dots for months, and then all of a sudden it disappears. That is really, really frustrating!
Not to keep harping the same subject, Fiddlechick, but there's a possibility that your issue is related to learning it from the dots in the first place. I think if your process is more like a memorization of the dots, instead of an internalizing of the contour of the tune, it might be less cemented in your mind, and things may get in the way of the recall of the tune. And learning by ear is more conducive to internalizing it.
The only time I have trouble recalling a tune is when it has been years since I've thought about it or played it - and even then, the recall usually comes within about the first two times through the tune. Usually the basic form of the tune still exists in my head, and the disconnect is with "muscle memory" not firing properly and actually getting in the way...
Oh sure, we all (whether we want to admit it or not) can sing the tunes to a million TV theme songs and commercial jingles which we haven't heard in years. Never learned them from the dots, and have never forgotten them!
I learn almost entirely by ear. SWFL Fiddler is right- once I can hum the tune, entirely, or the part I'm trying to learn, it won't be long before I get it. Once I get it, it doesn't leave.
As far as sometimes it taking longer or shorter it depends on the complexity of the tune and how well it sits on the instrument. Some tunes are just harder.
I have the same problem. And then I heard about Winamp .You can download the Winamp program for free. Then you can slow the piece down, hear all the nuances, and fix it in your head. I recommend.
ear learnin
ear learnin
why is it some days I can pick up a tune quite quickly by ear, but other days I really struggle to get just a small part?
strange but true
# Posted on July 28th 2009 by richrua
Re: ear learnin
Some tunes are like that. Many of them aren't worth the bother involved in learning them unless you're getting paid to play them...
# Posted on July 28th 2009 by Seosamh Ui Sinan
Re: ear learnin
Yes, it could be the tune. Or how that tune sits on your particular instrument.
The Old Bush sat so logically on flute that I literally learned it in less that 15 minutes. Had never happened before and likely will never happen again.
Other tunes I've had to spend days & weeks on -- even after listening to them gillions of times to "internalize" them.
Just one of those things, I'd guess.
# Posted on July 28th 2009 by browndog
Re: ear learnin
A lot of it depends on the tune, I think. If it is in a key that you're more used to playing in, it is easier than learning something in an unusual key.
And the structure of the tune is important too. If it was written in a way that falls naturally on your instrument, it's easier. If it has a lot of the common building blocks in Irish music, it is easier. But if it has a lot of "tricky" parts, that twist and turn in unexpected directions, it can be more difficult.
How familiar you are with the tune before you try learning to play it can make a big difference.
It also depends on your state of mind. I find that I learn tunes better in the morning than I do in the afternoon. But a little bit of whiskey, and being warmed up, sitting in an evening session puts me in a very receptive mode, and I can learn tunes even more quickly that way.
# Posted on July 28th 2009 by Reverend
Re: ear learnin
It's like any skill - sometimes you have your off days. Some days, my triplets are crisp as an iceberg lettuce - other days, they're like overcooked broccoli. Like you say, it's just one of those things.
As the Rev says, it also depends on the tune. If the tune contains familiar patterns of fingering/bowing/blowing/squeezing, then half the work's already done for you. The more tunes you learn, the more patterns you internalise and so, the less often you are confronted with a tune that contains unfamiliar patterns.
# Posted on July 28th 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: ear learnin
I have only ever learned 2 tunes by ear and i blame that on thesession.org (well the internet to be precise) I just find that if i really like a tune then i'll just search for the abc here.
Oh and Reverend i find that once i start on the whiskey i won't leave that bottle alone until i forget what the hell the buttons on the accordion do! The thing is you may well learn a tune on whiskey but would you remember it in the morning?
# Posted on July 28th 2009 by upmine3
Re: ear learnin
That’s a good point the Reverend made about a tune have many of the common ‘building blocks’ of this music. Recent compositions always (for me) fall into two categories, one where the newer tune is made up of familiar building blocks, and then the other kind which only play lip service to those familiar structures!
# Posted on July 28th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: ear learnin
…and to answer the question, it’s like any skill, gets easier the more you do it. Rome wasn’t built in a day, insert cliché here, etc.
Or maybe it’s one of them there newfangled snazzy tunes someone just wrote yesterday to impress some member of the opposite sex. (hee hee)
Also, my brain will tell me when it’s time to learn the tune, or that I’m able to learn the tune. I diddle them to myself in my head, or out loud, without an instrument. “Oh…wow, that’s X, I bet I can play that now” and sure enough, because I could diddle it, I knew it.
...and conversely, if you can’t diddle it, chances are you can’t play it either!
...but if you can diddle it, it shouldn't be long until you can play it.
# Posted on July 28th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: ear learnin
I find it's much easier--well, less difficult, more like--if the tune is being played on the same instrument that I play.
And of course if it's a tune I have heard often--another argument for listening to as much of The Music as you can stomach. If you listen a lot, you not only get more familiar with commonly used phrases, you also store a lot of whole tunes in your subconscious mind.
Has anybody ever tried hypnosis for learning tunes--or recovering them from the cobwebbed corners of the mind? Just curious.
# Posted on July 28th 2009 by John Galt
Re: ear learnin
Well, upmine3, they say that you should practice the way you play, so I try to hit the whiskey before practicing and learning tunes too
The hypnosis idea is interesting. I've never tried it. But I do get into a rather hypnotic state when I'm learning a tune, sometimes. I think it's a matter of real focused concentration. The problem is that it makes me sleepy, like meditation (or medication, for that matter), and so I get annoyed by the fact that I often feel like taking a nap after learning a tune...
# Posted on July 28th 2009 by Reverend
Re: ear learnin
ear lernin is good learnin...
# Posted on July 29th 2009 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: ear learnin
Glad to see I'm not the only one with this issue. I also sometimes think I have a tune, because I can play it without looking at the dots for months, and then all of a sudden it disappears. That is really, really frustrating!
# Posted on July 29th 2009 by Fiddlechick7
Re: ear learnin
Not to keep harping the same subject, Fiddlechick, but there's a possibility that your issue is related to learning it from the dots in the first place. I think if your process is more like a memorization of the dots, instead of an internalizing of the contour of the tune, it might be less cemented in your mind, and things may get in the way of the recall of the tune. And learning by ear is more conducive to internalizing it.
The only time I have trouble recalling a tune is when it has been years since I've thought about it or played it - and even then, the recall usually comes within about the first two times through the tune. Usually the basic form of the tune still exists in my head, and the disconnect is with "muscle memory" not firing properly and actually getting in the way...
# Posted on July 29th 2009 by Reverend
Re: ear learnin
Oh sure, we all (whether we want to admit it or not) can sing the tunes to a million TV theme songs and commercial jingles which we haven't heard in years. Never learned them from the dots, and have never forgotten them!
"My baloney has a first name, it's O S C A R..."
# Posted on July 29th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: ear learnin
I learn almost entirely by ear. SWFL Fiddler is right- once I can hum the tune, entirely, or the part I'm trying to learn, it won't be long before I get it. Once I get it, it doesn't leave.
As far as sometimes it taking longer or shorter it depends on the complexity of the tune and how well it sits on the instrument. Some tunes are just harder.
# Posted on July 30th 2009 by shanty
Re: ear learnin
The tunes I know stay with me but I don't know nearly as many as some folks.
# Posted on July 30th 2009 by shanty
Re: ear learnin
I have the same problem. And then I heard about Winamp .You can download the Winamp program for free. Then you can slow the piece down, hear all the nuances, and fix it in your head. I recommend.
# Posted on August 22nd 2009 by Flutey Tootie