It seems to me that most anything is allowed in sessions, as long as it's in moderation and it blends in. I'm not familiar enough with mountain dulcimers to know what they look like, but I know I've occasionally seen a hammered dulcimer at the sessions I go to in Baltimore. The dulcimer can be a bit loud at times, but the guy who plays it knows the other musicians and enough about ettiquette that he seems to be fine with blending in. I think alot would also depend on where the session is held. Hammered dulcimer takes up alot of space, so I think you need a decent sized open area (like at the pub in Baltimore) for it to work.
I don't mind one hammered dulcimer, and mainly only if the dulcimer player is aware that too much ring will muddy the music beyond recognition. More than one is way too many, though. Doesn't matter about the mountain dulcimer (though I question why anyone would want to play Irish on it), since you're barely going to be able to hear it anyways...
In fact love, most sessions should be built around the HD. . . .(boy, won't that get things going!) Really now!
I'd agree that in a tight space a hammered dulcimer player must be more aware than others of how much it can take over a session. I'll go in to our local jam once in a while and depending on what session it is the harp / whistle player will either glare at me even though I'm using pillow hammers or the sound guy will keep moving a mike closer and closer until I have to swing around it to hit the strings. Ask first. In most jam sessions other than HD jam sessions (lots here in Michigan) the players don't know how one will fit into the group but nobody ever said that I wasn't welcome. One book I bought in a discount bookstore gave a definitive answer to surviving an Irish session. Some instruments were allowed (fiddles, whistles) and some, like saxaphone or the dulcimer (any kind) was definitely not allowed. This book in fact had so many rules about playing session I thought I'd have a Guinness beer bottle chucked at me if I ever showed up with one. I chucked the book instead. I'll usually snuggle into a corner and play chords or play softly until I get some interested looks from the other players. If I'm ignored I'll get my Guinness somewhere else.
You really have 'Lots of HD jam sessions in Michigan'? It conjures up a lovely image of a place full of people struggling through pub doorways with big unwieldy boxes. Bars full of seas of hammered dulcimers (It wouldn't take that many to fill a place up). Sessions that never quite get started because just as the latest arrival has finished tuning up all their strings another bulky box struggles through the door, all the tables have to be rearranged and then the tuning starts again.
Wonderful.
There was a guy in the UK in the 70s called Bob Stewart who played Scots and Irish tunes on the Hammered Dulcimer, Uilleann Pipes etc. brilliantly, who did the rounds of the clubs. but was, however, really up himself......to the extent that he snubbed me completely when he saw me busking in the streets of Bath, when only a couple of weeks previously he had been happy to talk to me at our club where he was booked. I have kept this to myself until now but have secretly harboured grudges against all subsequent HD players as I know they must all be related to him....it's a genetic thing!!!
I looked up paranoia in the dictionary the other day ..it said
And the noise is incredible!! Who needs guitars, bass' or those other instruments? There isn't a bar in creation that'd have us. We have to jam in churches or out in parks where there's lots of room to escape. Fifteen HD's in one place playing is a real trip. Not for the faint of heart (or hearing).
When you walk into a session with your mountain dulcimer under your arm just think of the first person who took a bazouki into an Irish session.
The tradition is the music not the intruments.
rosenun makes a great point. This week at our slow session we had an autoharp player show up. Man, could he flat out play the music. I like a well played autoharp (not just stumming but picking melodies that is), and he really added to the session.
Not to get up anybody's nose, or anything, and not trying to turn this into a dogpile, but recently I'm really starting to view the phrase, "it really added to the session" with great suspicion...as if something had been missing from it previously or something.
Personally, I'd assume a mountain dulcimer player is coming from another tradition (and, frankly, an auto-harp player as well) and, to be quite honest about my own snobbery, they'd have to go proving themselves as knowing something about the music, sort of like having to start from the basement of the building of respect rather than the ground floor; because it's likely (although not in all cases, certainly) that just hauling those instruments into a session (which after all isn't a jam) shows that they either don't know much about the tradition or don't care.
I just had a double ntake at a contribution earlier in this thread from jrathbun: "the sound guy keeps moving the mike closer" ??? What kind of a session is that?
That one was not really a session but more of a country style jam in a converted church. Like I said, I'm not here to drive anybody away and played real soft until I got my feet under me. Most of the songs that night were '50's Hank Williams style ballads and very chordable. The scene was a combination of a jam session and a performance venue as opposed to a trad. Irish session and the sound guy was a bit pushy. In that style, every other verse is an instrumental and the leader calls out the person to take the lead. That ended up for the most part being the dolbro player and myself.
Just last week we had a mountain dulcimer player, not from the tradition, at a session. So we played some pipe tunes where they could strum a D drone to go with it. I've only heard one HD player who plays really well and within the tradition (Jean Lewis), and she told me some time ago that most HD players don't have the Irish sound. In my experience even the other established HD players I've heard here on the east coast of usa, don't sound to me like they were brought up in The Music, but have some other feel to how they play. What do I know, I can't play the HD..
I've had two experiences of HD playing ITM - one player was excellent, picking (striking!) out the melodies perfectly in tune and in time, all notes slightly damped by the felt? bar (however that works)....so not too loud....different session, another HD player got about 70% of the melody right, but the timing was *chugging* behind, and no damping at all, so an over-bright ringing tone all the time which drilled into my eardrums and f******* up the other players! Arghhhhhh! So there you are - the tone of a HD played well is not in any more contrast to the tones of banjo and whistle, for example. So no real good reason to bar it from ITM and complain *just* because it's a HD.
Jim
...Oh, and never heard mountain dulcimer playing tunes at a session - just basic simple chords accompanying a song...
I had the chance to meet a HD player who did the plucky thing and had dampeners, David James the Irish national champion hammered dulicmer player. I had the chance to play with him this last summer and he opened up insights to Irish music I've been missing. His methods of playing, including dragging a fiddle bow along the bottom strings for a drone brought shivers. He was wonderful. Check out his web site http://www.tiompanalley.com/ for more.
Zina - you can be as suspicious about the phrase "really added to the session" as you want, and perhaps my opinion is influenced by the fact that our session often is only 3 or so players so ANYBODY who can play a few tunes well "really adds to the session" (which means you were on to something with your skepticism), but the autoharp player could play ITM exceptionally well.
I, too, admit I was a bit skeptical at first, but for me at least the instrument being played matters a hell of a lot less than how the music is played (but don't ask me how I'd feel if a well played trombone showed up at our session .
"The instrument being played matters a hell of a lot less than how the music is played."
Disagree. This music, like any music, works well on some instruments, not so well on others, because the style, tunes, and aesthetics of the music were in part shaped by the core instruments on which it was developed: flute, pipes, fiddle. Other instruments that entered the tradition later, and stayed (box, concertina, harmonica, to an extent banjo, bouzouki, mandolin) succeeded because of the degree to which they were able to fit the style, tunes, and aesthetics of the tunes.
There are problems with the physical design and acoustical response of the HD that make it difficult to fit Irtrad style. Principally these have to do with excessive overlapping sustain and (perversely enough) the sharp attack and relatively rapid decay of individual notes.
These problems are quite distinct from any behavioral/stylistic problems to which players of a certain instrument may be prone. They are inherent to the instrument's design.
That said, the northern HD player John Rea was a mighty good player and fit solidly. Others have succeeded as well, but I think statistically more have not.
Generally speaking, when someone comes to our session and wants to insist on playing an instrument that doesn't fit the tradition, I'll suggest that person begin learning the tunes on one of the instruments that already fits the tradition, explaining that it "makes it much easier to play the music right" if you're on an instrument that supports the style. That's why in Ireland the traditional way to start a youngster is on the whistle, even if that child eventually wants to play fiddle, or pipes, or even a non-core instrument: because, in a 10-Euro instrument, you can learn to do 'most everything the tradition requires, to a quite high level of virtuosity.
Curiously, in my observation the people who in the long run are likely to stick with the music are usually more willing to have a go at a core instrument. It's the folks who already have chops on a non-core instrument (like the HD) who tend to want only "to learn a few tunes" or just have a bash at a session, oftentimes w/out doing the concomitant homework.
I think the message here is that you *really need to know the music*, regardless of how good your chops on your instrument. This takes time.
The corrolary is that those who "really know the music" are more often those who will (a) understand why a core instrument may be the better choice and (b) bite the bullet and put in the time to learn to play it right.
Fair play then, Eric -- it's just really that the last few times anyone has used "it really added so much to the session" around me have been people talking about: 1) a stand up bass that was REALLY loud; I'm not actually that much of a purist that I run screaming from a bass at a session or in a band, no really, but when it's so loud it's actually drowning out a half set of pipes sitting next to me from across the circle of 30 people, you've got to start wondering; 2) a drum kit...I mean, a feckin' *DRUM KIT*?!?; and 3) a tambourine, but I *think* they were kidding about that one. I think. Maybe it's that I hope.
Anyway, again, it's not that I'm going to pop out in hives or anything from their presence at a session, but I'll probably not rush forward to welcome them with open arms until I can hear that either they're making the effort to learn about this stuff or that they know about it already.
Zina & Chris - Stand-up bass, drum kits, tambourine - I'll agree with you - I don't want them anywhere near a session. I'll also agree with Chris it's best to start into the tradition with a trad instrument, but the autoharp guy was just a gem of an ITM player. He'd been playing for years, had an instrument hand crafted by some guy just for his style, and picked up the tunes he didn't know the second time around --- If only my ear where half that good!
So, I thoroughly agree with you both, but still think there are exceptions out there to prove the rule.
A guy with a HD used to come to our session sometimes. As a showpiece he could do a really spectacular job on, say, some O'Carolan tunes. But the rest of the time it took away more than it gave. Sometimes he would start a tune and with so much ring and so much ornamentation we simply couldn't tell what the tune was - it would turn out to have been something simple and universally know like Dingle Regatta, and he would wonder why no one joined in!
Wow. I really feel unwelcome. I've played Irish Trad on my mountain dulcimer since the '70's, first learning tunes from the people in my community and then from listening to Bonnie Carol. I have a dulcimer with a big soundbox designed to carry in a jam session and remarkably, it does. Oh and I play the melody AND I can play chords.
I'm sorry you feel unwelcome. As iterated above, if you know what you're about, it doesn't matter what you play, really. But you need to know that other players will be looking askance if you walk into a new session with your dulcimer until you prove yourself. I'm afraid that's mainly how it works, at least in places where the tradition is known, loved, worked at, and cared about.
Doesn't mean you can't go make your own tradition or change your corner of it, of course.
Oh, and Irish sessions aren't jam sessions. We don't "jam" in this tradition! (Perhaps you could make a case that we do, however, preserve. Har. Har. Har.)
The Laramie session is run by Rod Garnett from Colcannon. Does he count as someone who knows and loves the music, has worked at and understands the tradition? He's never asked me to put the thing away. BTW, I was refering to jam session as a standard of noise and confusion, something that must never happen in Irish sessions, eh? At least, none of the ones I've been to...
Colcannon's a great band, and as a matter of fact their bass player (whose name I can never remember, Mike, isn't it?) has been at the last three sessions I've gone to lately, and I once worked with Mick for a bit when we both worked at The Denver Center Theatre Company. Oh, and my own session takes place at The Small Circle Coffeehouse, owned by Steve Mullins, Brian's brother, and one of my friends dated Brian. Might still, for all I know, I haven't seen her in a while.
But Colcannon isn't exactly a trad band, and they'll be the first to tell you that, and I've never been up there, so I've no idea if Rod's session is a strictly traditional session or how he views the tradition. (Beth Leachmann knows a fiddle player up your way, can't remember her name, maybe someday that'll be a good excuse for us both to trip up there for a session! Hmmm. Maybe we should go arranging that. *grin*)
Anyway, still stands! If you know what you're about, it doesn't really matter what instrument you play it on, though you may get quite a bit of slagging about it if it's, say, a french horn or something. If you know what you're about, then only one of the Purists with capitol P will ask you to put it away or tell you you're not welcome before you've had a chance to prove yourself on it.
I guess you could call me biased because I sleep with a mountain/Appalachian dulcimer player, but...
Actually, one of the things that made our courtship all the more enjoyable was discovering the range of possibilities the dulcimer offered to the Irish/English/Scots music I played, tunes and songs alike. For tunes, we'd often do mandolin and dulcimer, and when we got it juusssst right it made for a spare yet compelling sound. On some tunes she could melody as well as rhythm, which was pretty cool.
Of course, the thing about taking her dulcimer to sessions was that if it was loud in the pub (either due to the number of instruments or volume of conversation, or both) you often had a tough time hearing her playing beyond her plectrum striking the strings.
I play hammer dulcimer and fiddle. I'd say the key to whether HD fits in is whether the play undersands the Irish tradition and the limits of the dulcimer. The HD is best in slow and medium tempo tunes. Melodies get lost on fast reels. HD's not a good fit for really rocking tunes.
And there is the space problem in small bars, especially if you show up late and have to tune up! Forget it, you're dead before you start. ::smile::
Fiddle of course fits in everywhere. That's why I prefer it these days.
HD is a great change up in an evening and can be a real crowd pleaser if you don't over stay your welcome.
Interesting that somebody had overplayed dingle regatta to the point that it was unrecognizable. Glad I wasn't there to hear that. That type of silly playing is probably why it's tough for us HD guys to feel welcome at sessions.
Here in the Maryland area, there are quite a few "Irish sessions" that are not pure in the ITM sense and would probably not be listed in the "sessions" section. But, the majority of the tunes are irish traditonal with a good amount of old time and contra dance tunes thrown in. Many of the musicans will play in all three venues and spend a lot of time at performances, in workshops and practice to get to "know the music". So the hammered dulcimer, outside of the pure ITM sessions, is a common instrument you would see all the time. And I would say most of these folks would avoid trying to wiggle into a professional ITM session. I believe there is a lot more of this type of mixed traditional session in the USA then most folks are aware of.
Oh, that's what I'd say the vast majority of the sessions outside of Boston, NYC, Chicago and SF are. Not enough players to fill out a session, so the contra and Old Time folks join in. But I'd say that it's not necessarily true that some of those players wouldn't get into a "professional" ITM session -- (professional?). Quite of a few of the ones here, for instance, have no idea that they *aren't* playing traditional Irish music, sadly. They think that's what a session is actually *like*.
Although the hammer dulcimer has never been popular in Ireland, it seems to have been there a long time. From what I've heard (I happened upon the Cork Dulcimer Festival last year), there isn't much of a continuous dulcimer tradition, because most players were self-taught, played alone at home, and didn't know any other players, or even that others existed. I went to a talk/recital by two players - Seamus Brady, a Wexford man living in Donegal and a younger man (whose name I forget) from Antrim. Their repertoire consisted predominantly of airs and marches, rather than 'session' tunes. Seamus Brady, in particular, would use the instrument to accompany, or play introductions to songs, as much as for purely instrumental music.
There were several players present at the festival who played dance tunes and played regularly in sessions, but most of these were from America and England (which also has a hammer dulcimer tradition). One American player had a self-devised damper system, similar to that found on the Szimbalom of Eastern Europe. It was stressed in one lecture that players wishing to play in Irish sessions should specifically choose a dulcimer with a shorter sustain.
I did play with a HD player up at Will's session, and he played some waltzes with me that were lovely. There's also a HD player here in Denver, Tina Guggeler, who plays out regularly.
A Szimbalom? Hmmm. Gonna have to go and look that one up.
Dulcimer
Dulcimer
Are mountain dulcimers welcome at your session ? And what about hammered ones ?
# Posted on October 3rd 2003 by azo
Re: Dulcimer
It seems to me that most anything is allowed in sessions, as long as it's in moderation and it blends in. I'm not familiar enough with mountain dulcimers to know what they look like, but I know I've occasionally seen a hammered dulcimer at the sessions I go to in Baltimore. The dulcimer can be a bit loud at times, but the guy who plays it knows the other musicians and enough about ettiquette that he seems to be fine with blending in. I think alot would also depend on where the session is held. Hammered dulcimer takes up alot of space, so I think you need a decent sized open area (like at the pub in Baltimore) for it to work.
# Posted on October 4th 2003 by Jason G
Re: Dulcimer
I don't mind one hammered dulcimer, and mainly only if the dulcimer player is aware that too much ring will muddy the music beyond recognition. More than one is way too many, though. Doesn't matter about the mountain dulcimer (though I question why anyone would want to play Irish on it), since you're barely going to be able to hear it anyways...
# Posted on October 4th 2003 by Zina Lee
Oh, and you'd better have yourself a fairly tough skin with either. 'Cause you're going to take some slagging from the purists, that's for sure.
# Posted on October 4th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Dulcimer
In fact love, most sessions should be built around the HD. . . .(boy, won't that get things going!) Really now!
I'd agree that in a tight space a hammered dulcimer player must be more aware than others of how much it can take over a session. I'll go in to our local jam once in a while and depending on what session it is the harp / whistle player will either glare at me even though I'm using pillow hammers or the sound guy will keep moving a mike closer and closer until I have to swing around it to hit the strings. Ask first. In most jam sessions other than HD jam sessions (lots here in Michigan) the players don't know how one will fit into the group but nobody ever said that I wasn't welcome. One book I bought in a discount bookstore gave a definitive answer to surviving an Irish session. Some instruments were allowed (fiddles, whistles) and some, like saxaphone or the dulcimer (any kind) was definitely not allowed. This book in fact had so many rules about playing session I thought I'd have a Guinness beer bottle chucked at me if I ever showed up with one. I chucked the book instead. I'll usually snuggle into a corner and play chords or play softly until I get some interested looks from the other players. If I'm ignored I'll get my Guinness somewhere else.
# Posted on October 4th 2003 by jrathbun
Re: Dulcimer
You really have 'Lots of HD jam sessions in Michigan'? It conjures up a lovely image of a place full of people struggling through pub doorways with big unwieldy boxes. Bars full of seas of hammered dulcimers (It wouldn't take that many to fill a place up). Sessions that never quite get started because just as the latest arrival has finished tuning up all their strings another bulky box struggles through the door, all the tables have to be rearranged and then the tuning starts again.
Wonderful.
# Posted on October 4th 2003 by Ottery
Re: Dulcimer
There was a guy in the UK in the 70s called Bob Stewart who played Scots and Irish tunes on the Hammered Dulcimer, Uilleann Pipes etc. brilliantly, who did the rounds of the clubs. but was, however, really up himself......to the extent that he snubbed me completely when he saw me busking in the streets of Bath, when only a couple of weeks previously he had been happy to talk to me at our club where he was booked. I have kept this to myself until now but have secretly harboured grudges against all subsequent HD players as I know they must all be related to him....it's a genetic thing!!!
I looked up paranoia in the dictionary the other day ..it said
"Why do you want to know"?
OK Nurse...I'm coming...
# Posted on October 4th 2003 by Geoff Pollitt
Re: Dulcimer
And the noise is incredible!! Who needs guitars, bass' or those other instruments? There isn't a bar in creation that'd have us. We have to jam in churches or out in parks where there's lots of room to escape. Fifteen HD's in one place playing is a real trip. Not for the faint of heart (or hearing).
# Posted on October 4th 2003 by jrathbun
Re: Dulcimer
When you walk into a session with your mountain dulcimer under your arm just think of the first person who took a bazouki into an Irish session.
The tradition is the music not the intruments.
# Posted on October 4th 2003 by rosenun
Re: Dulcimer
rosenun makes a great point. This week at our slow session we had an autoharp player show up. Man, could he flat out play the music. I like a well played autoharp (not just stumming but picking melodies that is), and he really added to the session.
Eric
# Posted on October 4th 2003 by Jayhawk
Ummmmm....
Not to get up anybody's nose, or anything, and not trying to turn this into a dogpile, but recently I'm really starting to view the phrase, "it really added to the session" with great suspicion...as if something had been missing from it previously or something.
Personally, I'd assume a mountain dulcimer player is coming from another tradition (and, frankly, an auto-harp player as well) and, to be quite honest about my own snobbery, they'd have to go proving themselves as knowing something about the music, sort of like having to start from the basement of the building of respect rather than the ground floor; because it's likely (although not in all cases, certainly) that just hauling those instruments into a session (which after all isn't a jam) shows that they either don't know much about the tradition or don't care.
# Posted on October 4th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Dulcimer
Bridie, how did you get a hold of Zina's password?!
# Posted on October 4th 2003 by Dr. Dow
Re: Dulcimer
LOL -- I *knew* that would be you, Mark, without looking at the signature...
# Posted on October 4th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Dulcimer
I just had a double ntake at a contribution earlier in this thread from jrathbun: "the sound guy keeps moving the mike closer" ??? What kind of a session is that?
# Posted on October 4th 2003 by ...
Re: Dulcimer
That one was not really a session but more of a country style jam in a converted church. Like I said, I'm not here to drive anybody away and played real soft until I got my feet under me. Most of the songs that night were '50's Hank Williams style ballads and very chordable. The scene was a combination of a jam session and a performance venue as opposed to a trad. Irish session and the sound guy was a bit pushy. In that style, every other verse is an instrumental and the leader calls out the person to take the lead. That ended up for the most part being the dolbro player and myself.
# Posted on October 4th 2003 by jrathbun
Re: Dulcimer
Just last week we had a mountain dulcimer player, not from the tradition, at a session. So we played some pipe tunes where they could strum a D drone to go with it. I've only heard one HD player who plays really well and within the tradition (Jean Lewis), and she told me some time ago that most HD players don't have the Irish sound. In my experience even the other established HD players I've heard here on the east coast of usa, don't sound to me like they were brought up in The Music, but have some other feel to how they play. What do I know, I can't play the HD..
# Posted on October 5th 2003 by LH
Re: Dulcimer
I've had two experiences of HD playing ITM - one player was excellent, picking (striking!) out the melodies perfectly in tune and in time, all notes slightly damped by the felt? bar (however that works)....so not too loud....different session, another HD player got about 70% of the melody right, but the timing was *chugging* behind, and no damping at all, so an over-bright ringing tone all the time which drilled into my eardrums and f******* up the other players! Arghhhhhh! So there you are - the tone of a HD played well is not in any more contrast to the tones of banjo and whistle, for example. So no real good reason to bar it from ITM and complain *just* because it's a HD.
Jim
...Oh, and never heard mountain dulcimer playing tunes at a session - just basic simple chords accompanying a song...
Jim
# Posted on October 5th 2003 by Worldfiddler
Re: Dulcimer
I had the chance to meet a HD player who did the plucky thing and had dampeners, David James the Irish national champion hammered dulicmer player. I had the chance to play with him this last summer and he opened up insights to Irish music I've been missing. His methods of playing, including dragging a fiddle bow along the bottom strings for a drone brought shivers. He was wonderful. Check out his web site http://www.tiompanalley.com/ for more.
# Posted on October 5th 2003 by jrathbun
Re: Dulcimer
Zina - you can be as suspicious about the phrase "really added to the session" as you want, and perhaps my opinion is influenced by the fact that our session often is only 3 or so players so ANYBODY who can play a few tunes well "really adds to the session" (which means you were on to something with your skepticism), but the autoharp player could play ITM exceptionally well.
.
I, too, admit I was a bit skeptical at first, but for me at least the instrument being played matters a hell of a lot less than how the music is played (but don't ask me how I'd feel if a well played trombone showed up at our session
Eric
# Posted on October 5th 2003 by Jayhawk
Re: Dulcimer
"The instrument being played matters a hell of a lot less than how the music is played."
Disagree. This music, like any music, works well on some instruments, not so well on others, because the style, tunes, and aesthetics of the music were in part shaped by the core instruments on which it was developed: flute, pipes, fiddle. Other instruments that entered the tradition later, and stayed (box, concertina, harmonica, to an extent banjo, bouzouki, mandolin) succeeded because of the degree to which they were able to fit the style, tunes, and aesthetics of the tunes.
There are problems with the physical design and acoustical response of the HD that make it difficult to fit Irtrad style. Principally these have to do with excessive overlapping sustain and (perversely enough) the sharp attack and relatively rapid decay of individual notes.
These problems are quite distinct from any behavioral/stylistic problems to which players of a certain instrument may be prone. They are inherent to the instrument's design.
That said, the northern HD player John Rea was a mighty good player and fit solidly. Others have succeeded as well, but I think statistically more have not.
Generally speaking, when someone comes to our session and wants to insist on playing an instrument that doesn't fit the tradition, I'll suggest that person begin learning the tunes on one of the instruments that already fits the tradition, explaining that it "makes it much easier to play the music right" if you're on an instrument that supports the style. That's why in Ireland the traditional way to start a youngster is on the whistle, even if that child eventually wants to play fiddle, or pipes, or even a non-core instrument: because, in a 10-Euro instrument, you can learn to do 'most everything the tradition requires, to a quite high level of virtuosity.
Curiously, in my observation the people who in the long run are likely to stick with the music are usually more willing to have a go at a core instrument. It's the folks who already have chops on a non-core instrument (like the HD) who tend to want only "to learn a few tunes" or just have a bash at a session, oftentimes w/out doing the concomitant homework.
I think the message here is that you *really need to know the music*, regardless of how good your chops on your instrument. This takes time.
The corrolary is that those who "really know the music" are more often those who will (a) understand why a core instrument may be the better choice and (b) bite the bullet and put in the time to learn to play it right.
Your mileage may vary.
chris smith
# Posted on October 5th 2003 by coyotebanjo
Sorry: "corollary"
# Posted on October 5th 2003 by coyotebanjo
Re: Dulcimer
Fair play then, Eric -- it's just really that the last few times anyone has used "it really added so much to the session" around me have been people talking about: 1) a stand up bass that was REALLY loud; I'm not actually that much of a purist that I run screaming from a bass at a session or in a band, no really, but when it's so loud it's actually drowning out a half set of pipes sitting next to me from across the circle of 30 people, you've got to start wondering; 2) a drum kit...I mean, a feckin' *DRUM KIT*?!?; and 3) a tambourine, but I *think* they were kidding about that one. I think. Maybe it's that I hope.
Anyway, again, it's not that I'm going to pop out in hives or anything from their presence at a session, but I'll probably not rush forward to welcome them with open arms until I can hear that either they're making the effort to learn about this stuff or that they know about it already.
# Posted on October 5th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Dulcimer
Zina & Chris - Stand-up bass, drum kits, tambourine - I'll agree with you - I don't want them anywhere near a session. I'll also agree with Chris it's best to start into the tradition with a trad instrument, but the autoharp guy was just a gem of an ITM player. He'd been playing for years, had an instrument hand crafted by some guy just for his style, and picked up the tunes he didn't know the second time around --- If only my ear where half that good!
So, I thoroughly agree with you both, but still think there are exceptions out there to prove the rule.
Eric
# Posted on October 5th 2003 by Jayhawk
Re: Dulcimer
A guy with a HD used to come to our session sometimes. As a showpiece he could do a really spectacular job on, say, some O'Carolan tunes. But the rest of the time it took away more than it gave. Sometimes he would start a tune and with so much ring and so much ornamentation we simply couldn't tell what the tune was - it would turn out to have been something simple and universally know like Dingle Regatta, and he would wonder why no one joined in!
Dave
# Posted on October 5th 2003 by showaddydadito
Re: Dulcimer
Wow. I really feel unwelcome. I've played Irish Trad on my mountain dulcimer since the '70's, first learning tunes from the people in my community and then from listening to Bonnie Carol. I have a dulcimer with a big soundbox designed to carry in a jam session and remarkably, it does. Oh and I play the melody AND I can play chords.
# Posted on October 6th 2003 by burek
Re: Dulcimer
I'm sorry you feel unwelcome. As iterated above, if you know what you're about, it doesn't matter what you play, really. But you need to know that other players will be looking askance if you walk into a new session with your dulcimer until you prove yourself. I'm afraid that's mainly how it works, at least in places where the tradition is known, loved, worked at, and cared about.
Doesn't mean you can't go make your own tradition or change your corner of it, of course.
# Posted on October 6th 2003 by Zina Lee
P.S.
Oh, and Irish sessions aren't jam sessions. We don't "jam" in this tradition!
(Perhaps you could make a case that we do, however, preserve. Har. Har. Har.)
# Posted on October 6th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Dulcimer
The Laramie session is run by Rod Garnett from Colcannon. Does he count as someone who knows and loves the music, has worked at and understands the tradition? He's never asked me to put the thing away. BTW, I was refering to jam session as a standard of noise and confusion, something that must never happen in Irish sessions, eh? At least, none of the ones I've been to...
# Posted on October 6th 2003 by burek
Re: Dulcimer
Colcannon's a great band, and as a matter of fact their bass player (whose name I can never remember, Mike, isn't it?) has been at the last three sessions I've gone to lately, and I once worked with Mick for a bit when we both worked at The Denver Center Theatre Company. Oh, and my own session takes place at The Small Circle Coffeehouse, owned by Steve Mullins, Brian's brother, and one of my friends dated Brian. Might still, for all I know, I haven't seen her in a while.
But Colcannon isn't exactly a trad band, and they'll be the first to tell you that, and I've never been up there, so I've no idea if Rod's session is a strictly traditional session or how he views the tradition. (Beth Leachmann knows a fiddle player up your way, can't remember her name, maybe someday that'll be a good excuse for us both to trip up there for a session! Hmmm. Maybe we should go arranging that. *grin*)
Anyway, still stands! If you know what you're about, it doesn't really matter what instrument you play it on, though you may get quite a bit of slagging about it if it's, say, a french horn or something. If you know what you're about, then only one of the Purists with capitol P will ask you to put it away or tell you you're not welcome before you've had a chance to prove yourself on it.
# Posted on October 6th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Dulcimer
I guess you could call me biased because I sleep with a mountain/Appalachian dulcimer player, but...
Actually, one of the things that made our courtship all the more enjoyable was discovering the range of possibilities the dulcimer offered to the Irish/English/Scots music I played, tunes and songs alike. For tunes, we'd often do mandolin and dulcimer, and when we got it juusssst right it made for a spare yet compelling sound. On some tunes she could melody as well as rhythm, which was pretty cool.
Of course, the thing about taking her dulcimer to sessions was that if it was loud in the pub (either due to the number of instruments or volume of conversation, or both) you often had a tough time hearing her playing beyond her plectrum striking the strings.
# Posted on October 6th 2003 by sts
Re: Dulcimer
I play hammer dulcimer and fiddle. I'd say the key to whether HD fits in is whether the play undersands the Irish tradition and the limits of the dulcimer. The HD is best in slow and medium tempo tunes. Melodies get lost on fast reels. HD's not a good fit for really rocking tunes.
And there is the space problem in small bars, especially if you show up late and have to tune up! Forget it, you're dead before you start. ::smile::
Fiddle of course fits in everywhere. That's why I prefer it these days.
HD is a great change up in an evening and can be a real crowd pleaser if you don't over stay your welcome.
Interesting that somebody had overplayed dingle regatta to the point that it was unrecognizable. Glad I wasn't there to hear that. That type of silly playing is probably why it's tough for us HD guys to feel welcome at sessions.
# Posted on October 6th 2003 by Rayzore
Re: Dulcimer
Here in the Maryland area, there are quite a few "Irish sessions" that are not pure in the ITM sense and would probably not be listed in the "sessions" section. But, the majority of the tunes are irish traditonal with a good amount of old time and contra dance tunes thrown in. Many of the musicans will play in all three venues and spend a lot of time at performances, in workshops and practice to get to "know the music". So the hammered dulcimer, outside of the pure ITM sessions, is a common instrument you would see all the time. And I would say most of these folks would avoid trying to wiggle into a professional ITM session. I believe there is a lot more of this type of mixed traditional session in the USA then most folks are aware of.
# Posted on October 7th 2003 by fiddlersgreen
Re: Dulcimer
Oh, that's what I'd say the vast majority of the sessions outside of Boston, NYC, Chicago and SF are. Not enough players to fill out a session, so the contra and Old Time folks join in. But I'd say that it's not necessarily true that some of those players wouldn't get into a "professional" ITM session -- (professional?). Quite of a few of the ones here, for instance, have no idea that they *aren't* playing traditional Irish music, sadly. They think that's what a session is actually *like*.
*sigh*
# Posted on October 7th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Dulcimer
Although the hammer dulcimer has never been popular in Ireland, it seems to have been there a long time. From what I've heard (I happened upon the Cork Dulcimer Festival last year), there isn't much of a continuous dulcimer tradition, because most players were self-taught, played alone at home, and didn't know any other players, or even that others existed. I went to a talk/recital by two players - Seamus Brady, a Wexford man living in Donegal and a younger man (whose name I forget) from Antrim. Their repertoire consisted predominantly of airs and marches, rather than 'session' tunes. Seamus Brady, in particular, would use the instrument to accompany, or play introductions to songs, as much as for purely instrumental music.
There were several players present at the festival who played dance tunes and played regularly in sessions, but most of these were from America and England (which also has a hammer dulcimer tradition). One American player had a self-devised damper system, similar to that found on the Szimbalom of Eastern Europe. It was stressed in one lecture that players wishing to play in Irish sessions should specifically choose a dulcimer with a shorter sustain.
# Posted on October 7th 2003 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Dulcimer
I did play with a HD player up at Will's session, and he played some waltzes with me that were lovely. There's also a HD player here in Denver, Tina Guggeler, who plays out regularly.
A Szimbalom? Hmmm. Gonna have to go and look that one up.
# Posted on October 7th 2003 by Zina Lee