We have a person who attends our sessions, a real nice guy, but not great in the musicianship department. Noone (who is any good) wants to play with him. He plays fast but it is so "garbled" for lack of a better term that it takes people several minutes to recognise a tune if he starts one. He doesn't add any Irish ornamentation but will put things in there that sound like something they'd do in fifing. Drives me nuts. We can usually drown him out in a session so it doesn't matter so much. Some memebers will eventually get up and move away if he sits next to them. Noone has discouraged him from attending but attempts have been made to have him slow down and hear himself. Someone told me that they had talked to this guy a little about it and his response was that he wasn't concerned about the notes. Hmmm....
Anyway, my problem is he has asked me by e-mail point blank to start up a Ceili band with him. How do I tell him I and a host of others do not want to play publically with him without hurting his feelings. He's a nice guy, just clueless.Any suggestions?
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
He may be clueless by birth, but he'll remain that way if everyone is too afraid to hurt his feelings. And your session will continue to struggle with him.
Have a face-to-face talk with him, one-on-one. When I've done this sort of thing, my approach goes something like this:
"I appreciate your obvious passion for the music, and you're good crack at the session. But I have a hard time hearing the melody of the tune when you play. I wonder why that is."
Give him a chance to own up to his difficulties. If he does, you can work with him from there. If he doesn't, explain how his playing affects your enjoyment of the music. If he doesn't cop on, you can walk away knowing that you at least tried.
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Maybe tell him that his style of playing doesn't compliment your style. That might give him a clue that he needs to change something. Especially if he likes your playing enough to ask you to start a band with him. Might open a dialog about his playing too.
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
"You could just hope he reads this thread - that might get the message diplomatically across!"
I once started a thread here about exactly this same topic and was attacked because I described what the whistle player was doing as "noodling." This term brought out regiments of pro-noodlers in the forum, and unbeknown to me, the person I was referring to who had never been a member of thesession.org suddenly showed up with his very first post and announced he was the culprit and the pro-noodlers lifted him onto their shoulders like a martyr to the cause and marched around victoriously. In other words, my attempt to discuss the same idea was a disaster in that it hurt the man's feelings and created rifts between his pals and myself. I have since made amends with the fellow after he understood I never identified him by name or intended him to see I was using my frustration with his session behavior as an example. As it turns out thesession.org can be a snake pit if you start discussing problems with people in your local scene. IMHO
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Speak to him directly and politely about the concerns you and others have. I was given a stern talking to once when I was just starting out and grew from it tremendously. He may pout and leave, or he may get better - either way your group will benefit.
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
....fairly apt thread for tonight's 'invasion' of the milesians on the magical race.... see you there, my good man. I'm a bit tired of the attempts at 'winging it' on the first time upon hearing a tune by certain milesians... nothing wrong with it, just a bit like mixing wines together. Now I just sound snotty, but I like to hear a tune that isn't being 'tackled' by someone who doesn't realize the volume of the instrument. Finishing school for Milesians... hmmm
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
One of the first threads I ever started on this site was meant as a light-hearted thread and it ended up causing embarrasment and resentment for someone who had done no wrong to anyone. I have not seen that user on here since and I really regret that thoughtless act of mine.
I am not saying that the topic of this thread should not be discussed on here at all but it can offer backfire and cause real upset.
Some suggestions might include offering some lessons or tips for him. You can try having a word with him yourself about general session behavour and the normal approaches to the music rather than just working from the idea that someone already has and that they did this properly. If he displays an attitude that he doesn't really care about the opinions of the rest of the group then you have carte blanche to tell him to s*d off.
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Sometimes I´m really amazed about some of the threads I get to read here and about the way that comparatively small things are blown up into `problems´ ... There is really nothing to add to what Jusa Nutter Eejit wrote: `Speak to him directly and politely...´ . There is no hint about this guy´s age - or about the age of `madabouttrad´ , but has neither of them ever been in a situation where they had to solve problems in a grown-up way ?
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
You should have told him before now. Your reticence/cowardice disguised as caring for his feelings is a grave you have dug for yourself. The more you let it go, the more you keep digging. Take some responsibility.
However, thank your stars you've been given a let out. Him asking you to join his band is the perfect opportunity for you to apologise. Start with something like: "look, I'm really sorry, I don't want to join your band because I think you play too fast and garbled. Half the time I can't even tell what tune you're playing. I know I should have been honest before, but I was a coward ... " etc etc
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
A friend who also plays in a samba band introduced to our sessions a guy who knew little about ITM and used to sit with his bodhran on his lap hitting it on every beat with one end of the tipper.
I gave him as much as two minutes of explanation of my understanding of good bodhran playing would cover, without criticizing him per se, and he has only been back once since.
We do struggle with people who do not understand the complexities of this music, and think that it is both easy and simple to play, and an easy entry to our social groupings.
Maybe a few direct words, like "Jim, I don't find your playing fits in with what I enjoy about this music."
How to attempt to temper the megalomaniac (I refuse to use 'musician')
With a similar problem ~ we started a seperate slow session & workshop, with hope that those attending and contributing will get a better understanding and ability with both the music and session etiquette. It seems to be working in the slow sesison, but when shifting back into a full session all the same problems persist. I have spoken openly about this. I live in hope... But, there are a few that escape the net, but that might be better for my sanity, as one of these really is cack, but thinks they are the root of all tradition. Such megalomaniacs are difficult to reach. He's the sort that would want to teach others his shight technique, so we are better off without him. Hopefully better and more players can continue to add more balance on the side of the good and reasonable, as opposed to this persons 'bad' and 'unreasonable' crassness...
It is best to be honest, with heart, and if they can't take it, well, there are always other options for them, hopefully, like their own closet...
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
I looked at you profile and your a mom of 3 kids. Use the kids as an excuse. That's a pretty full plate. Right now you are doing as much as you can -- it's an excuse, but a good one in my book.
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Diplomacy??????? It did'nt help Chamberlain . I think it best to bite the bullet and just tell him straight. If he gets upset that's bad luck. I give advice when asked, and somtimes when not asked, and sometimes it's not what people want to hear. But it's what they need.
You cannot pay for advice such as this on an Ebay auction.
Where else but the session.org will you find a nevermaycare whistler equated with a megalomaniac, bent on taking over Europe, dropping nuclear blasts on each pub along the way?
madabouttrad, if you don't mind, did this come out of the blue or have you been thinking about starting a Ceili band? You don't have to answer. I always wonder how often fiddlers, in session, have the itch to form a band.
Hope the topic of this thread works out for you.
Cheers!
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
I'm amazed that people are advising others to make excuses. Do these people ever face things in life? All you're going to accomplish with excuses is make this whistler more clingy. The whole hard-to-get routine. Jeebus!
Just respond, "No thanks." and leave it at that. If he asks why, and I'm sure he will, tell him. "You do this, this, and this. That's not compatible with my playing style (or Irish music, or both). I have a hard enough time handling it at the session, and there's no way I would be able to handle it in a band setting. Good luck."
No apologies, no excuses. And no telling him what the rest of the "group" thinks. All that's going to do is turn it into a social, clique thing. Keep it a playing thing.
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
A simple 'no thank you' as awildman says, is sufficient. No reasons, no excuses. As for the whistling, just look him straight in the eye, if you can catch it, and say, 'That sounds terrible.' No excuses, no reasons. A smile would - should - let him know that you don't dislike him. Sorry isn't the hardest word for some people, No, is.
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
While a simple 'no thank you' may well suffice for now, a sarcastic 'ha ha, yeah right' might work better long term. But either response had to be immediate. madabouttrad's problem is nothing more than prevarication
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Ah, Jack... I can honestly remember the first day you joined the site. I checked out your sound clips and complimented you on the fine playing. There was a lot of cheerful banter and sharing of thoughts and stories - no snakes. Happy days!
I don't remember - did we have color back then, or was it all still black & white?
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Grego... did you notice I said, "can be"? I had great fun in the discussion forum, and loved the banter, but often suddenly found it seemed like people were at each other's throats, especially over topics like the one this thread is based.
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
We had a crazy whistle player who seemed to believe that sitting next to someone who knew some tunes would magically transform his loud noodling into music. On every tune during the night, no less. Mercifully he stays in the city these days. Maybe he'll visit the old plough and stars some time, but I hope not.
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
....or the guys who think they can play a tune by watching your fingers. Makes me wish I knew a tune that I could play all the way thru with the e finger straight up.
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
I once made the grave mistake of giving somebody an ill-judged session tip-off. It was a man who had been standing listening at a Sunday afternoon session in (undisclosed London suburb). He enquired as to whether there were any other sessions that night, and I told him where I was going. He said he played the whistle, although he hadn't been to a session for a few years and was a bit rusty. This was quite a high-quality session, run by a few eminent London musicians - but I seemed to be welcome there, despite not coming close to the level of most of the regulars there, so I felt it would be mean-spirited of me to exclude another musician.
Sure enough, he turned up at the later session, but did not have a whistle with him. Not wanting him to be musically frustrated all evening, I offered him one of my whistles to play a tune on. He accepted the offer and, out of the selection of whistles I had with me, mostly in D, he chose a C whistle and proceeded to 'twitter' randomly on it over every tune. I politely suggested once or twice that he try using a D whistle, thinking it would increase the probability of his twittering being at least in the same key as the tunes. But he was adamant that that whistle was the one he liked best. So everyone had to just grit their teeth and play on, whilst I burned with shame at the knowledge that it was all my doing.
I hope there is no connection, but that session folded not long after the incident.
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Ahh, llig, like a zen master, he gives us the good advice of being honest and direct, and also shows us how not to do it by mocking the person he is advising, and calling him a coward..... yin and yang, all wrapped up in one post.....
So lisaniska, what is this comment you are adding to the end of threads, this is the second one I have seen.....
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Generlly, a zen master beats his disciples if they are going to loose their concentration.
I hope the context here is very different....or...???
If it's allowed to express my point of view, probably we should all be more relaxed and peaceful...
Music is a pleasure we all share, we all love ITM, and here there are many expert and valuable musicians and teachers..
and many valuable persons, expert may be in other fields (even "just" in growing their children, why not......?)
We can "reset" our attitude here, if we want, and just assume we're here to share our knowledge and ignorance, most probably equal in amount for each one of us....
Just my opinion...... (forgive my bad english, pls!!!!)
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Al, there were dozens of those comments over the course of few hours, and the offender has now been suspended until September 16. Moral - mess around with the database at your peril!
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Agreed, there was no personal rudeness involved and it was thoughtless, but one immediate effect of those dozens of identical posts (now removed) was that they occupied several pages of Comments (quite apart from bumping up the guy's number of posts significantly). There could have been deeper effects in the database that wouldn't be immediately apparent, but I know that if I were a webmaster I wouldn't be best pleased and would want to discourage this sort of thing at once.
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Lisaniska is, by his own admission, a non-techie. He had a rare, gig-less, Friday night in. You know how it is catching up on session discussions, possibly a glass or two of vino. All I know is that the session.org will be poorer for his absence till September 16th (for Gawd's sake). Having talked to my other half, who is a techie ,I realise how irritating his action must have been for the Webmaster but surely a warning would sufffice.
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
It is really strange for me to hear John, "Lisaniska", described as an "offender" especially considering the offences that go unremarked on this board,
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
That's because Jeremy is arbitrary and capricious in his banishments. Although sometimes the punishment is based on what gets said behind the scenes--i.e., when he emails the perpetrator who then gets belligerent instead of repentant.
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
I have no idea what happened in this case, but I do know Jeremy's email style is a bit totalitarian; he gives you the sense that you can't say anything to defend yourself (or anything at all) and if you do it's off-with-your head. This can be very frustrating and provoke a belligerent response I would imagine, especially if the alleged perpetrator felt the action was unjust or biased.
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
The funny thing is, Will, that John probably hasn't even read any email that Jeremy might have sent because he doesn't really use the email that he signed on to "the session" with. Also, as I mentioned before, he has been busy gigging all this weekend. It is ironic that I explained to him within the last week how the "email" address was used to ban members when they "offended" and I was going to show him how to update his email address, but never mind it's too late now! Anyway, to any session.org members here who have met John or who have read his contributions to this website, the idea of him being belligerant is clearly laughable.
Anyway respect to Jeremy - this is a great site and long may it prosper. I'm only going on about this so much because II know John (lisaniska) personally and I will be sad to see him banned from this site for so long.
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Hi, Phantom Button didn't see your post before I posted. I haven't had an email from Jeremy yet, and I am not challenging his authority..... (I'd better shut up now, John's gonna kill me...!)
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Hmmm. All the emails I've gotten from Jeremy have been very open and fair minded, even when I was nasty to him. His only sin is inconsistency when enforcing his "be civil" rule.
I suspect that if someone feels "provoked" by an email from Jeremy, the problem lies more in their inability to see their own culpability than in any fault of Jeremy's.
Yes, the lengthy ban on Lisaniska seems harsh for what he did. These are the sorts of decisions I wish Jeremy would make public and explain. But he obviously prefers to be the man behind the curtains....
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Hey Will that's a lovely image - Jeremy as "the man behind the curtains". I can't help but be reminded of the Wizard of Oz!! As I said before this is a great site and a great resource. It's 11:10 pm here and I'm tempted to inform the world that I intend to repair to the bed-chamber but I'd better not push my luck
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Yes, Will, and you are one of the good 'ol boys of this website so it's no surprise to any of us how you would see them all as "very open and fair minded." Some of us don't share your seniority or affiliations with Jeremy and the treatment seemed less than fair. But such is the nature of the internet and forums like this. One individual is in a position to make decisions without scrutiny and can take whatever action they please with impunity. Anyone who participates in this forum (or others like it) understands that.
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
LOL, Jack, I've argued with Jeremy far more than I've agreed with him. There is no "good 'ol boy" network here. Your insinuation that Jeremy favors certain members too easily glosses over what you yourself brought to the dance.
How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
We have a person who attends our sessions, a real nice guy, but not great in the musicianship department. Noone (who is any good) wants to play with him. He plays fast but it is so "garbled" for lack of a better term that it takes people several minutes to recognise a tune if he starts one. He doesn't add any Irish ornamentation but will put things in there that sound like something they'd do in fifing. Drives me nuts. We can usually drown him out in a session so it doesn't matter so much. Some memebers will eventually get up and move away if he sits next to them. Noone has discouraged him from attending but attempts have been made to have him slow down and hear himself. Someone told me that they had talked to this guy a little about it and his response was that he wasn't concerned about the notes. Hmmm....
Anyway, my problem is he has asked me by e-mail point blank to start up a Ceili band with him. How do I tell him I and a host of others do not want to play publically with him without hurting his feelings. He's a nice guy, just clueless.Any suggestions?
# Posted on July 15th 2009 by madabouttrad
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
just tell him you don't want to play in a band. You just don't want to take on a second job, which is what a band really is - a part time job
# Posted on July 15th 2009 by Nate Ryan
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
You could just hope he reads this thread - that might get the message diplomatically across!
# Posted on July 15th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
He may be clueless by birth, but he'll remain that way if everyone is too afraid to hurt his feelings. And your session will continue to struggle with him.
Have a face-to-face talk with him, one-on-one. When I've done this sort of thing, my approach goes something like this:
"I appreciate your obvious passion for the music, and you're good crack at the session. But I have a hard time hearing the melody of the tune when you play. I wonder why that is."
Give him a chance to own up to his difficulties. If he does, you can work with him from there. If he doesn't, explain how his playing affects your enjoyment of the music. If he doesn't cop on, you can walk away knowing that you at least tried.
# Posted on July 15th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Maybe tell him that his style of playing doesn't compliment your style. That might give him a clue that he needs to change something. Especially if he likes your playing enough to ask you to start a band with him. Might open a dialog about his playing too.
Mary
# Posted on July 15th 2009 by Antikhntr
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
"You could just hope he reads this thread - that might get the message diplomatically across!"
I once started a thread here about exactly this same topic and was attacked because I described what the whistle player was doing as "noodling." This term brought out regiments of pro-noodlers in the forum, and unbeknown to me, the person I was referring to who had never been a member of thesession.org suddenly showed up with his very first post and announced he was the culprit and the pro-noodlers lifted him onto their shoulders like a martyr to the cause and marched around victoriously. In other words, my attempt to discuss the same idea was a disaster in that it hurt the man's feelings and created rifts between his pals and myself. I have since made amends with the fellow after he understood I never identified him by name or intended him to see I was using my frustration with his session behavior as an example. As it turns out thesession.org can be a snake pit if you start discussing problems with people in your local scene. IMHO
# Posted on July 15th 2009 by Phantom Button
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Speak to him directly and politely about the concerns you and others have. I was given a stern talking to once when I was just starting out and grew from it tremendously. He may pout and leave, or he may get better - either way your group will benefit.
# Posted on July 15th 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
....fairly apt thread for tonight's 'invasion' of the milesians on the magical race.... see you there, my good man. I'm a bit tired of the attempts at 'winging it' on the first time upon hearing a tune by certain milesians... nothing wrong with it, just a bit like mixing wines together. Now I just sound snotty, but I like to hear a tune that isn't being 'tackled' by someone who doesn't realize the volume of the instrument. Finishing school for Milesians... hmmm
# Posted on July 15th 2009 by fedorastain
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
One of the first threads I ever started on this site was meant as a light-hearted thread and it ended up causing embarrasment and resentment for someone who had done no wrong to anyone. I have not seen that user on here since and I really regret that thoughtless act of mine.
I am not saying that the topic of this thread should not be discussed on here at all but it can offer backfire and cause real upset.
Some suggestions might include offering some lessons or tips for him. You can try having a word with him yourself about general session behavour and the normal approaches to the music rather than just working from the idea that someone already has and that they did this properly. If he displays an attitude that he doesn't really care about the opinions of the rest of the group then you have carte blanche to tell him to s*d off.
# Posted on July 15th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Sometimes I´m really amazed about some of the threads I get to read here and about the way that comparatively small things are blown up into `problems´ ... There is really nothing to add to what Jusa Nutter Eejit wrote: `Speak to him directly and politely...´ . There is no hint about this guy´s age - or about the age of `madabouttrad´ , but has neither of them ever been in a situation where they had to solve problems in a grown-up way ?
# Posted on July 15th 2009 by alexweger
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
You should have told him before now. Your reticence/cowardice disguised as caring for his feelings is a grave you have dug for yourself. The more you let it go, the more you keep digging. Take some responsibility.
However, thank your stars you've been given a let out. Him asking you to join his band is the perfect opportunity for you to apologise. Start with something like: "look, I'm really sorry, I don't want to join your band because I think you play too fast and garbled. Half the time I can't even tell what tune you're playing. I know I should have been honest before, but I was a coward ... " etc etc
# Posted on July 15th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
A friend who also plays in a samba band introduced to our sessions a guy who knew little about ITM and used to sit with his bodhran on his lap hitting it on every beat with one end of the tipper.
I gave him as much as two minutes of explanation of my understanding of good bodhran playing would cover, without criticizing him per se, and he has only been back once since.
We do struggle with people who do not understand the complexities of this music, and think that it is both easy and simple to play, and an easy entry to our social groupings.
Maybe a few direct words, like "Jim, I don't find your playing fits in with what I enjoy about this music."
# Posted on July 15th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Blimey, what a great idea. The next bodhran player I meet I'm gonna advise them to sit the drum on their knee and only use one end of the stick
# Posted on July 15th 2009 by llig leahcim
How to attempt to temper the megalomaniac (I refuse to use 'musician')
With a similar problem ~ we started a seperate slow session & workshop, with hope that those attending and contributing will get a better understanding and ability with both the music and session etiquette. It seems to be working in the slow sesison, but when shifting back into a full session all the same problems persist. I have spoken openly about this. I live in hope... But, there are a few that escape the net, but that might be better for my sanity, as one of these really is cack, but thinks they are the root of all tradition. Such megalomaniacs are difficult to reach. He's the sort that would want to teach others his shight technique, so we are better off without him. Hopefully better and more players can continue to add more balance on the side of the good and reasonable, as opposed to this persons 'bad' and 'unreasonable' crassness...
It is best to be honest, with heart, and if they can't take it, well, there are always other options for them, hopefully, like their own closet...
# Posted on July 15th 2009 by ceolachan
"all the same problems persist" ~ not with all the participants... Most are getting better and better as we progress... So, it is working...
# Posted on July 15th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
It's a familiar problem - a bad whistler is like a nuclear weapon
# Posted on July 16th 2009 by Hup
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
I agree completely with Llig. (Gosh.....)
# Posted on July 16th 2009 by suesinger
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
I looked at you profile and your a mom of 3 kids. Use the kids as an excuse. That's a pretty full plate. Right now you are doing as much as you can -- it's an excuse, but a good one in my book.
# Posted on July 16th 2009 by grumblingoldwoman
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Will Harmon & Mary answered this one ~ spot on!
# Posted on July 16th 2009 by Ben Steen
*
Jusa Nutter Eejit too!
Good to hear a response from one who learned from his mistakes.
excuse this minor hijack ~ Jusa how are the Diamondbacks doing?
carry on.
# Posted on July 16th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Diplomacy??????? It did'nt help Chamberlain . I think it best to bite the bullet and just tell him straight. If he gets upset that's bad luck. I give advice when asked, and somtimes when not asked, and sometimes it's not what people want to hear. But it's what they need.
# Posted on July 16th 2009 by Tony O'Rourke
Clueless whistler
You cannot pay for advice such as this on an Ebay auction.
Where else but the session.org will you find a nevermaycare whistler equated with a megalomaniac, bent on taking over Europe, dropping nuclear blasts on each pub along the way?
madabouttrad, if you don't mind, did this come out of the blue or have you been thinking about starting a Ceili band? You don't have to answer. I always wonder how often fiddlers, in session, have the itch to form a band.
Hope the topic of this thread works out for you.
Cheers!
# Posted on July 16th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
I'm amazed that people are advising others to make excuses. Do these people ever face things in life? All you're going to accomplish with excuses is make this whistler more clingy. The whole hard-to-get routine. Jeebus!
Just respond, "No thanks." and leave it at that. If he asks why, and I'm sure he will, tell him. "You do this, this, and this. That's not compatible with my playing style (or Irish music, or both). I have a hard enough time handling it at the session, and there's no way I would be able to handle it in a band setting. Good luck."
No apologies, no excuses. And no telling him what the rest of the "group" thinks. All that's going to do is turn it into a social, clique thing. Keep it a playing thing.
# Posted on July 16th 2009 by awildman2384
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
A simple 'no thank you' as awildman says, is sufficient. No reasons, no excuses. As for the whistling, just look him straight in the eye, if you can catch it, and say, 'That sounds terrible.' No excuses, no reasons. A smile would - should - let him know that you don't dislike him. Sorry isn't the hardest word for some people, No, is.
# Posted on July 16th 2009 by gam
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
While a simple 'no thank you' may well suffice for now, a sarcastic 'ha ha, yeah right' might work better long term. But either response had to be immediate. madabouttrad's problem is nothing more than prevarication
# Posted on July 16th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
You could politely stuff the whistle up his arse. (But the polite bit takes some practice!)
# Posted on July 16th 2009 by Rob
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
"Good to hear a response from one who learned from his mistakes"
The only "mistake" was not realizing what a snake pit this discussion forum can be.
# Posted on July 16th 2009 by Phantom Button
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Ah, Jack... I can honestly remember the first day you joined the site. I checked out your sound clips and complimented you on the fine playing. There was a lot of cheerful banter and sharing of thoughts and stories - no snakes. Happy days!
I don't remember - did we have color back then, or was it all still black & white?
# Posted on July 16th 2009 by grego
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Grego... did you notice I said, "can be"? I had great fun in the discussion forum, and loved the banter, but often suddenly found it seemed like people were at each other's throats, especially over topics like the one this thread is based.
# Posted on July 17th 2009 by Phantom Button
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
We had a crazy whistle player who seemed to believe that sitting next to someone who knew some tunes would magically transform his loud noodling into music. On every tune during the night, no less. Mercifully he stays in the city these days. Maybe he'll visit the old plough and stars some time, but I hope not.
# Posted on July 17th 2009 by leoj
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
....or the guys who think they can play a tune by watching your fingers. Makes me wish I knew a tune that I could play all the way thru with the e finger straight up.
# Posted on July 17th 2009 by feardearg
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Poor Jack, the innocent victim of the snake pit....
(dripping with sarcasm; hiss, hiss)
# Posted on July 17th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
I once made the grave mistake of giving somebody an ill-judged session tip-off. It was a man who had been standing listening at a Sunday afternoon session in (undisclosed London suburb). He enquired as to whether there were any other sessions that night, and I told him where I was going. He said he played the whistle, although he hadn't been to a session for a few years and was a bit rusty. This was quite a high-quality session, run by a few eminent London musicians - but I seemed to be welcome there, despite not coming close to the level of most of the regulars there, so I felt it would be mean-spirited of me to exclude another musician.
Sure enough, he turned up at the later session, but did not have a whistle with him. Not wanting him to be musically frustrated all evening, I offered him one of my whistles to play a tune on. He accepted the offer and, out of the selection of whistles I had with me, mostly in D, he chose a C whistle and proceeded to 'twitter' randomly on it over every tune. I politely suggested once or twice that he try using a D whistle, thinking it would increase the probability of his twittering being at least in the same key as the tunes. But he was adamant that that whistle was the one he liked best. So everyone had to just grit their teeth and play on, whilst I burned with shame at the knowledge that it was all my doing.
I hope there is no connection, but that session folded not long after the incident.
# Posted on July 17th 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Jeez man, just ask for your whistle back! gotta be such an easy solution!
# Posted on July 17th 2009 by piobagusfidil
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Uh oh... 'twitter' (noodle)
# Posted on July 17th 2009 by Phantom Button
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Ahh, llig, like a zen master, he gives us the good advice of being honest and direct, and also shows us how not to do it by mocking the person he is advising, and calling him a coward..... yin and yang, all wrapped up in one post.....
So lisaniska, what is this comment you are adding to the end of threads, this is the second one I have seen.....
# Posted on July 18th 2009 by AlBrown
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Generlly, a zen master beats his disciples if they are going to loose their concentration.
(forgive my bad english, pls!!!!)
I hope the context here is very different....or...???
If it's allowed to express my point of view, probably we should all be more relaxed and peaceful...
Music is a pleasure we all share, we all love ITM, and here there are many expert and valuable musicians and teachers..
and many valuable persons, expert may be in other fields (even "just" in growing their children, why not......?)
We can "reset" our attitude here, if we want, and just assume we're here to share our knowledge and ignorance, most probably equal in amount for each one of us....
Just my opinion......
# Posted on July 18th 2009 by Sergio Corriero
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Al, there were dozens of those comments over the course of few hours, and the offender has now been suspended until September 16. Moral - mess around with the database at your peril!
# Posted on July 18th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
"Suspension until September 16" - very long sentence when there was no rudeness or malice involved.
# Posted on July 18th 2009 by sashiko calico
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Yes,it's quite the thing when other members can wish someone under the wheels of a bus and post direct personal insults without censure.
Homo homini lupus.
madabouttrad,re your clueless whistler you might try recording the session and playing it back to them and see what the response might be.
# Posted on July 18th 2009 by biggus dave
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
I agree but what goes around comes around,remember the lump hammer comment from llig and how many more ? Karma.
# Posted on July 18th 2009 by piobagusfidil
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Agreed, there was no personal rudeness involved and it was thoughtless, but one immediate effect of those dozens of identical posts (now removed) was that they occupied several pages of Comments (quite apart from bumping up the guy's number of posts significantly). There could have been deeper effects in the database that wouldn't be immediately apparent, but I know that if I were a webmaster I wouldn't be best pleased and would want to discourage this sort of thing at once.
# Posted on July 18th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
What was the offender seeking to gain from that multi-posting? (as a non-tekki I'm baffled)
# Posted on July 19th 2009 by suesinger
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Those multi-posts appeared after closing time. You may wish to think of a possible scenario
# Posted on July 19th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Lisaniska is, by his own admission, a non-techie. He had a rare, gig-less, Friday night in. You know how it is catching up on session discussions, possibly a glass or two of vino. All I know is that the session.org will be poorer for his absence till September 16th (for Gawd's sake). Having talked to my other half, who is a techie ,I realise how irritating his action must have been for the Webmaster but surely a warning would sufffice.
# Posted on July 19th 2009 by sashiko calico
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
It is really strange for me to hear John, "Lisaniska", described as an "offender"
especially considering the offences that go unremarked on this board, 
# Posted on July 19th 2009 by sashiko calico
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
That's because Jeremy is arbitrary and capricious in his banishments. Although sometimes the punishment is based on what gets said behind the scenes--i.e., when he emails the perpetrator who then gets belligerent instead of repentant.
# Posted on July 19th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
I have no idea what happened in this case, but I do know Jeremy's email style is a bit totalitarian; he gives you the sense that you can't say anything to defend yourself (or anything at all) and if you do it's off-with-your head. This can be very frustrating and provoke a belligerent response I would imagine, especially if the alleged perpetrator felt the action was unjust or biased.
# Posted on July 19th 2009 by Phantom Button
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
The funny thing is, Will, that John probably hasn't even read any email that Jeremy might have sent because he doesn't really use the email that he signed on to "the session" with. Also, as I mentioned before, he has been busy gigging all this weekend. It is ironic that I explained to him within the last week how the "email" address was used to ban members when they "offended" and I was going to show him how to update his email address, but never mind it's too late now! Anyway, to any session.org members here who have met John or who have read his contributions to this website, the idea of him being belligerant is clearly laughable.
Anyway respect to Jeremy - this is a great site and long may it prosper. I'm only going on about this so much because II know John (lisaniska) personally and I will be sad to see him banned from this site for so long.
# Posted on July 19th 2009 by sashiko calico
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
John is one of nature's gentlemen and a decent man.
# Posted on July 19th 2009 by biggus dave
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Hi, Phantom Button didn't see your post before I posted. I haven't had an email from Jeremy yet, and I am not challenging his authority..... (I'd better shut up now, John's gonna kill me...!)
# Posted on July 19th 2009 by sashiko calico
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Hmmm. All the emails I've gotten from Jeremy have been very open and fair minded, even when I was nasty to him. His only sin is inconsistency when enforcing his "be civil" rule.
I suspect that if someone feels "provoked" by an email from Jeremy, the problem lies more in their inability to see their own culpability than in any fault of Jeremy's.
Yes, the lengthy ban on Lisaniska seems harsh for what he did. These are the sorts of decisions I wish Jeremy would make public and explain. But he obviously prefers to be the man behind the curtains....
# Posted on July 19th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Hey Will that's a lovely image - Jeremy as "the man behind the curtains". I can't help but be reminded of the Wizard of Oz!! As I said before this is a great site and a great resource. It's 11:10 pm here and I'm tempted to inform the world that I intend to repair to the bed-chamber
but I'd better not push my luck 
# Posted on July 19th 2009 by sashiko calico
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Yes, Will, and you are one of the good 'ol boys of this website so it's no surprise to any of us how you would see them all as "very open and fair minded." Some of us don't share your seniority or affiliations with Jeremy and the treatment seemed less than fair. But such is the nature of the internet and forums like this. One individual is in a position to make decisions without scrutiny and can take whatever action they please with impunity. Anyone who participates in this forum (or others like it) understands that.
# Posted on July 19th 2009 by Phantom Button
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
LOL, Jack, I've argued with Jeremy far more than I've agreed with him. There is no "good 'ol boy" network here. Your insinuation that Jeremy favors certain members too easily glosses over what you yourself brought to the dance.
# Posted on July 19th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Boys, stop your bickering right now. Off to bed now. Both of you!
# Posted on July 19th 2009 by leoj
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Who's bickering?
# Posted on July 19th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Anyway, leoj, they are in America. I don't think it's their bedtime quite yet. Whereas here in the UK... yawn.....
# Posted on July 19th 2009 by sashiko calico
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Give me an autocratic--but ad- and spam-free--website any day. It's not that hard to mind your manners.
# Posted on July 19th 2009 by John Galt
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Some people find it hard to mind their manners regardless of spam I'm afraid.
# Posted on July 20th 2009 by Phantom Button
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Or lack of spam I should say...
# Posted on July 20th 2009 by Phantom Button
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
So I have noticed. (Present company excepted--well, mostly. We all have our moments.)
# Posted on July 20th 2009 by John Galt
Re: How to diplomatically put off clueless whistler
Seeing as manners have been mentioned, I feel I should make a belated apology to Madabouttrad for the accidental hijacking of their thread!! Sorry.
# Posted on July 20th 2009 by sashiko calico