The instrument: Howard Low Whistle in D, plastic mouthpiece
The problems:
- often jumps from lower to higher octave when its not intended
- G and A don't sound steady in the higher octave. The note "rips off" . Highest playable note is A.
The questions:
- any fingering tricks to cure this?
- are there better mouthpieces? The plastic seems a bit soft.
- how do you achieve a tighter fit? The mouthpiece was a bit loose and sticky-tape does not appear to be the perfect answer to that.
Thanks for useful hints - apart from "get a flute"
The problem is very likely to be because there is not a seal between the mouthpiece and the barrel.
Try PTFE tape - the sort plumbers use. It is a very thin tape you put round the end of the barrel and then slide the mouthpiece on over the tape (making sure the tape does not obstruct the bore of the instrument. This makes a better seal and should cure any leakage.
Once you have got that sorted, the rest is practice until you get those fingers covering those holes.
Howards do tend to be more difficuilt to control over the two octaves. I find this is because the hole in the mouth piece is a bit too large and so the blade that splits the air is set too high. This also affects the stability of the D. But unless you want to wreck a perfectly good whistle trying to fix it I'd play round it.
You'll find that after enough playing you will get used to a whistle's faults and it will sound fine, you can also use them to generate more sounds and tones than a perfect whistle.
These comments are similar to those posted by Dave. I must admit I have not had problems with octave G or A with my Howard low D unless I had not properly covered the holes or I was experimenting with breath pressure.
I cannot advise on the sound of octave B as I shy away from tunes that have too many notes above octave G. Tunes that have too many high A's and B's I have dubbed 'tinnitus tunes' as far as whistles are concerned. However, I do play the jig - Ship in Full Sail - on the Howard and the sound is fine in the upper octave.
When my Howard arrived the mouth piece did not fit well to the tubing. I wrapped plumbers tape around the tubing a few times - this removed the instability of the fit.
you could also have a faulty mouthpiece. I had to get Brian to send me another baffle, as mine had problems maintaining the low octave. it always wanted to play high octave.
Brian mentioned that some defective baffles are produced when ufactured.
Well, Michael, would I have bothered to start this thread if "throw it away, get a different one" appeared to be an option? I'd *never* throw out any musical instrument if there was a faint chance to get it to work properly. Also the low whistle cost a euro or two and it was a birthday present.
Now would you kindly explain what's so great about the Overton's? How many notes do you get above the first octave? Has it got a separate mouthpiece and if not is that generally an advantage? Could the rest be just lack of practice?
I would not mind Michael backing up his statement regarding Overtons.
My Overton story. I purchased a standard D Overton and rarely played it as it sounded bl**dy awful from octave E and above. It was difficult to flip into and thus hold notes in the upper octave. In the above octave, the notes sounded "fuzzy". It also took alot more air in comparison with the Howard Low. Basically, my tweaked Soolum D, purchased for $7 (Oz), was a much better whistle.
It wasn't until I recently met someone else who owned an Overton that I realised that there was something possibly wrong with mine. I contacted the company that sold the whistle to me and they sent me another for comparion. What a difference in sound. A comparison of the two whistles showed
1. My original Overton was shorter in length than the replacement (2 - 3 mm).
2. The holes corresponding to finger positions 5 and 6 were larger and oval in shape compared with the replacement. The replacement had circular finger holes.
3. If I remember my physics correctly a shorter tubing and widening the holes sharpens the note.
4. The replacement whistle took less air, and was better sounding in the upper octave.
5. The notes in the upper octave sounded distinct and clear.
6. The replacement whistle, to my eye, had a better finish.
My non-musical wife (who bless her puts up with my whistle antics) commented on the difference.
The outcome was that I kept the replacement whistle and returned the original whistle to the supplier. Many thanks to the supplier for allowing me to do this.
The upshot - no matter who makes the whistle there can be a variation in the quality. The variation in quality may be rare, but it can still happen.
Exactly right. Overton whistles are notoriously incosistent. I've never met the bloke but know many who have and the general opinion is that he makes two kind of whistles, one kind for musicians and one kind for shops. It seems nasty to suggest that he doesn't care about the ones in the shops, but it's more likely that he's just filling orders and that he saves the best ones for people who buy direct.
The good thing about his whistles is that they are all individually hand made, but this obviously meens that some are better than others. I supose he could play the moral high ground and refuse to let the crap ones out of his workshop, but I suspect he know's that the majority of people who'd buy an instrument like that out of a shop don't care anyway. So, in effect, the duffers he sells subsidise the good ones. And if you have the nouce to complain about the one you bought in the shop, he's quite happy to send you a good one.
I got my Low C via a mate of mine who knows Overton well and what a cracker it is. It's got a really booming hard C on the bottom and is beautifully in tune right up to the top C in the second octave, and further with some cross fingering. Overton's don't need a tuneable mouthpiece because they are always in tune.
Downsides: There quite expensive for a tube of alluminium.
another option is a Chieftain Low D. Similar to an Overton - good tone throughout, plenty of room for dynamics. Bernard Overton lives next door to one of my band members and is well-known on the local circuit. Many people mistake my Chieftain for an Overton. The Chieftain is slightly cheaper and worth a try. If you want a two-piece whistle then you could try a Susato. Mixed reviews - I've been lucky to get a very good low D - it has a large stretch between the bottom 'E' and 'D' but is in tune over 2 octaves. Has a different tone to the Chieftain.
I fing the chieftons suffer in that they have no volume in the lower octave. You really need that hard bottom note that only the overton gives. The Susato is not much better than the Howard.
But this is all academic anyway. If we were at all really interested in this type of instrument, we'd play the flute.
I have 2 Cheiftan Low Ds, with an amazing difference between them. The first - bought brand new - direct is a pig to play. Doesn't stay in key, clogs up, sound stops - took a bit of technique to get round this. The 2nd - I played once in a pub and promptly bought it - the difference is amazing. This whistle is a couple of mm different in the length, hole diameter and stretch and a couple of mm different in the mouthpiece. This whistle works well, doesn't clog up, doesn't change octave etc. I can comfortably play up to top B (although it is occasionally flat if you don't have enough air in yer lungs when you get there).
I have also had the displeasure of playing a Howard, my biggest problem with it was that the diameter of the holes is too big for my fingers to cover properly, particularly the G, E & D - resulting in octave change, no sound or bad sound.
All whistles are different - keep playing as many as you can before buying one. I recommend the Cheiftan or Overton over a Howard though.
If you want all the above problems and then some more at a greater price - get a flute.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, flutes - I've got one, have played several, love the sound when played well etc,etc...........I still got a whistle.
Keep the whistle!!!!!!
Michael - If we were at all interested in flutes we'd all have them. Do people really think the whistle is some kind of cop out for wannabe flute players?
Yeah, on balance, I reckon so. Certainly low whistles at any rate. I like to play my low whistle to give me an insight into how tunes would be played on the flute and the pipes. My chief reason then is to help my fiddle playing. And yes I think I would rather play the flute, but don't have the time. But there's plenty of time left hey.
Plus, though, the low whistle is great fun in the bath
No, I wont get a flute because we already have one in the band. It's a silver flute, competently played in the classical style. We thought tin and low whistles would make a nice contrast and give a more "Irish" sound.
I don't know how the silver flute would react to bath water though
change violins to long boats
pipes to air mattresses
whistles to submarine lookout thingies (no idea what you call them)
And enjoy your bath whatever you do.
I have no complaints with my Howard Low D. Yes, the mouthpiece was slightly loose on the whistle body when it arrived and you do need to stretch for some finger placings.
I gather from the postings to this topic that I am possibly alone on this. Bag my opinion, cause I don't care.
low whistle - high octave
low whistle - high octave
The instrument: Howard Low Whistle in D, plastic mouthpiece
The problems:
- often jumps from lower to higher octave when its not intended
- G and A don't sound steady in the higher octave. The note "rips off" . Highest playable note is A.
The questions:
- any fingering tricks to cure this?
- are there better mouthpieces? The plastic seems a bit soft.
- how do you achieve a tighter fit? The mouthpiece was a bit loose and sticky-tape does not appear to be the perfect answer to that.
Thanks for useful hints - apart from "get a flute"
# Posted on October 2nd 2003 by kuec
Re: low whistle - high octave
The problem is very likely to be because there is not a seal between the mouthpiece and the barrel.
Try PTFE tape - the sort plumbers use. It is a very thin tape you put round the end of the barrel and then slide the mouthpiece on over the tape (making sure the tape does not obstruct the bore of the instrument. This makes a better seal and should cure any leakage.
Once you have got that sorted, the rest is practice until you get those fingers covering those holes.
Good luck
Dave
# Posted on October 2nd 2003 by showaddydadito
Punctuation
Here's the close bracket that I missed in the above.
)
Dave
# Posted on October 2nd 2003 by showaddydadito
Re: low whistle - high octave
Howards do tend to be more difficuilt to control over the two octaves. I find this is because the hole in the mouth piece is a bit too large and so the blade that splits the air is set too high. This also affects the stability of the D. But unless you want to wreck a perfectly good whistle trying to fix it I'd play round it.
You'll find that after enough playing you will get used to a whistle's faults and it will sound fine, you can also use them to generate more sounds and tones than a perfect whistle.
# Posted on October 2nd 2003 by borderpiper
Re: low whistle - high octave
These comments are similar to those posted by Dave. I must admit I have not had problems with octave G or A with my Howard low D unless I had not properly covered the holes or I was experimenting with breath pressure.
I cannot advise on the sound of octave B as I shy away from tunes that have too many notes above octave G. Tunes that have too many high A's and B's I have dubbed 'tinnitus tunes' as far as whistles are concerned. However, I do play the jig - Ship in Full Sail - on the Howard and the sound is fine in the upper octave.
When my Howard arrived the mouth piece did not fit well to the tubing. I wrapped plumbers tape around the tubing a few times - this removed the instability of the fit.
Hope this helps.
Simon
# Posted on October 2nd 2003 by sjt
Re: low whistle - high octave
you could also have a faulty mouthpiece. I had to get Brian to send me another baffle, as mine had problems maintaining the low octave. it always wanted to play high octave.
Brian mentioned that some defective baffles are produced when ufactured.
# Posted on October 2nd 2003 by Amckay
Re: low whistle - high octave
Whatever you do, don't play it near the sea or at the Aquarium - it is cruel to whales / dolphins etc.
# Posted on October 2nd 2003 by geoffwright
Re: low whistle - high octave
Howards are just crap whistles, get an overton
# Posted on October 3rd 2003 by ...
Re: low whistle - high octave
you can vent the high B by using XOX XXX, it's come out a lot clearer and much easier.
# Posted on October 4th 2003 by Daffydd ap Llewellyn
Re: low whistle - high octave
don't be daft, how do roll it with all the other fingers closed. Throw it away
# Posted on October 4th 2003 by ...
Re: low whistle - high octave
Well, Michael, would I have bothered to start this thread if "throw it away, get a different one" appeared to be an option? I'd *never* throw out any musical instrument if there was a faint chance to get it to work properly. Also the low whistle cost a euro or two and it was a birthday present.
Now would you kindly explain what's so great about the Overton's? How many notes do you get above the first octave? Has it got a separate mouthpiece and if not is that generally an advantage? Could the rest be just lack of practice?
# Posted on October 5th 2003 by kuec
Re: low whistle - high octave
I would not mind Michael backing up his statement regarding Overtons.
My Overton story. I purchased a standard D Overton and rarely played it as it sounded bl**dy awful from octave E and above. It was difficult to flip into and thus hold notes in the upper octave. In the above octave, the notes sounded "fuzzy". It also took alot more air in comparison with the Howard Low. Basically, my tweaked Soolum D, purchased for $7 (Oz), was a much better whistle.
It wasn't until I recently met someone else who owned an Overton that I realised that there was something possibly wrong with mine. I contacted the company that sold the whistle to me and they sent me another for comparion. What a difference in sound. A comparison of the two whistles showed
1. My original Overton was shorter in length than the replacement (2 - 3 mm).
2. The holes corresponding to finger positions 5 and 6 were larger and oval in shape compared with the replacement. The replacement had circular finger holes.
3. If I remember my physics correctly a shorter tubing and widening the holes sharpens the note.
4. The replacement whistle took less air, and was better sounding in the upper octave.
5. The notes in the upper octave sounded distinct and clear.
6. The replacement whistle, to my eye, had a better finish.
My non-musical wife (who bless her puts up with my whistle antics) commented on the difference.
The outcome was that I kept the replacement whistle and returned the original whistle to the supplier. Many thanks to the supplier for allowing me to do this.
The upshot - no matter who makes the whistle there can be a variation in the quality. The variation in quality may be rare, but it can still happen.
# Posted on October 5th 2003 by sjt
Re: low whistle - high octave
Exactly right. Overton whistles are notoriously incosistent. I've never met the bloke but know many who have and the general opinion is that he makes two kind of whistles, one kind for musicians and one kind for shops. It seems nasty to suggest that he doesn't care about the ones in the shops, but it's more likely that he's just filling orders and that he saves the best ones for people who buy direct.
The good thing about his whistles is that they are all individually hand made, but this obviously meens that some are better than others. I supose he could play the moral high ground and refuse to let the crap ones out of his workshop, but I suspect he know's that the majority of people who'd buy an instrument like that out of a shop don't care anyway. So, in effect, the duffers he sells subsidise the good ones. And if you have the nouce to complain about the one you bought in the shop, he's quite happy to send you a good one.
I got my Low C via a mate of mine who knows Overton well and what a cracker it is. It's got a really booming hard C on the bottom and is beautifully in tune right up to the top C in the second octave, and further with some cross fingering. Overton's don't need a tuneable mouthpiece because they are always in tune.
Downsides: There quite expensive for a tube of alluminium.
# Posted on October 5th 2003 by ...
Oh, I forgot to mention that the little ones are just too loud. Anything above the F is just way too shrill for any session I've heard one.
The perfect size I reckon is the low D, though I love My Low C.
My Mate's also got a low B, an Low Bb and a low A all under neath the low C. Some monsters they are.
# Posted on October 5th 2003 by ...
Re: low whistle - high octave
another option is a Chieftain Low D. Similar to an Overton - good tone throughout, plenty of room for dynamics. Bernard Overton lives next door to one of my band members and is well-known on the local circuit. Many people mistake my Chieftain for an Overton. The Chieftain is slightly cheaper and worth a try. If you want a two-piece whistle then you could try a Susato. Mixed reviews - I've been lucky to get a very good low D - it has a large stretch between the bottom 'E' and 'D' but is in tune over 2 octaves. Has a different tone to the Chieftain.
# Posted on October 6th 2003 by Yohan
Re: low whistle - high octave
I fing the chieftons suffer in that they have no volume in the lower octave. You really need that hard bottom note that only the overton gives. The Susato is not much better than the Howard.
But this is all academic anyway. If we were at all really interested in this type of instrument, we'd play the flute.
# Posted on October 6th 2003 by ...
Re: low whistle - high octave
I have 2 Cheiftan Low Ds, with an amazing difference between them. The first - bought brand new - direct is a pig to play. Doesn't stay in key, clogs up, sound stops - took a bit of technique to get round this. The 2nd - I played once in a pub and promptly bought it - the difference is amazing. This whistle is a couple of mm different in the length, hole diameter and stretch and a couple of mm different in the mouthpiece. This whistle works well, doesn't clog up, doesn't change octave etc. I can comfortably play up to top B (although it is occasionally flat if you don't have enough air in yer lungs when you get there).
I have also had the displeasure of playing a Howard, my biggest problem with it was that the diameter of the holes is too big for my fingers to cover properly, particularly the G, E & D - resulting in octave change, no sound or bad sound.
All whistles are different - keep playing as many as you can before buying one. I recommend the Cheiftan or Overton over a Howard though.
Good luck.
# Posted on October 6th 2003 by jkneale
Re: low whistle - high octave
nice to get a sensibile comment instead of the 'get a flute' variety...
# Posted on October 6th 2003 by Yohan
Re: low whistle - high octave
If you want all the above problems and then some more at a greater price - get a flute.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, flutes - I've got one, have played several, love the sound when played well etc,etc...........I still got a whistle.
Keep the whistle!!!!!!
Michael - If we were at all interested in flutes we'd all have them. Do people really think the whistle is some kind of cop out for wannabe flute players?
# Posted on October 6th 2003 by jkneale
Re: low whistle - high octave
go jkneale!
# Posted on October 7th 2003 by Yohan
Re: low whistle - high octave
Yeah, on balance, I reckon so. Certainly low whistles at any rate. I like to play my low whistle to give me an insight into how tunes would be played on the flute and the pipes. My chief reason then is to help my fiddle playing. And yes I think I would rather play the flute, but don't have the time. But there's plenty of time left hey.
Plus, though, the low whistle is great fun in the bath
# Posted on October 7th 2003 by ...
Re: low whistle - high octave
Oooer. I don't even want to *think* about that one... *snort*
# Posted on October 7th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: low whistle - high octave
you never fiddle in the bath then?
# Posted on October 7th 2003 by Yohan
Re: low whistle - high octave
I diddle in the bath
# Posted on October 7th 2003 by ...
Re: low whistle - high octave
ha ha - fair enough
# Posted on October 7th 2003 by Yohan
Re: low whistle - high octave
Too much information! Too much information! LOL
# Posted on October 7th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: low whistle - high octave
No, I wont get a flute because we already have one in the band. It's a silver flute, competently played in the classical style. We thought tin and low whistles would make a nice contrast and give a more "Irish" sound.
I don't know how the silver flute would react to bath water though
change violins to long boats
pipes to air mattresses
whistles to submarine lookout thingies (no idea what you call them)
And enjoy your bath whatever you do.
# Posted on October 7th 2003 by kuec
Re: low whistle - high octave
back on topic for a second:
I've never thrown a whistle out but the howard was the only one I gave away
# Posted on October 7th 2003 by borderpiper
Re: low whistle - high octave
Who was the poor sod you gave it too?
# Posted on October 7th 2003 by ...
Re: low whistle - high octave
I have no complaints with my Howard Low D. Yes, the mouthpiece was slightly loose on the whistle body when it arrived and you do need to stretch for some finger placings.
I gather from the postings to this topic that I am possibly alone on this. Bag my opinion, cause I don't care.
See ya
Simon
# Posted on October 7th 2003 by sjt
Re: low whistle - high octave
A beautiful beginner whistle player
Haven't seen her since : )
# Posted on October 8th 2003 by borderpiper