Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
I think I just did something stupid. A 'Rochelle' Anglo concertina is
coming in the mail next week. Now I have to learn how to play it.
I've already done some research on this topic of course. Also, I've
been playing ITM fiddle and whistle for a few years. I've met
Mary MacNamara too, but unfortunately that doesn't help.
What are the top three things not to do when you're playing the
Anglo concertina? Hopefully not *all* answers will be silly.
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
By "not to do" I presume you mean not to do at the beginning or in another words bad habits? I don't think that there are any things not to do as such( other than water it or leave it out in the snow etc) but I would suggest that you take the time to explore the concertina fully before beginning to set tunes in stone in your playing. The concertina is "different" in that there are many options in how you play it and there is no doubt that one could develop a way of playing that might be making life difficult later on( there is a document available over at concertina.net which outlines the much talked of and so called "Noel Hill system").
Knowing what style you want to play in will certainly help as for example if you wanted to play fiddle in Donegal style you wouldn't go to Martin Hayes for lessons.The other challenge you might find is that beginner tunes on the fiddle are most certainly not beginner tunes on the concertina.Tunes such as Humours Of Glendart, Gerry's Beaver Hat, Mountain Road will certainly challenge as the note of F# is on the small finger left hand and is situated in what is called The Bermuda Triangle ( where many a good tune was lost) of D,E and F#.Also look out for how your C#s are placed on the first two buttons in the accidental row on the right side.Concertinas with a Jeffries layout usually have two- one on the push and one on the pull.Others might have the two C#s ,push and pull, on the first button and others again might just have one C#.This too can influence how you shape your tunes.But hey, apart from that, go for it.A couple of Valium will help as well !
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
1.Try not to tense up (shoulders, back)
2.I think the Rochelle comes with Wheatstone layout, so your high C# is on the 1st button push on the right hand outer row.
Try to (it's difficult) always find a fingering involving C# (1st push on the right hand outer row) that makes the note interchangeable: If you are to play a D or a B before or after a C#, play the D or B on the left hand inside row. This might give you an advantage some time down the road, if you were to change systems from Wheatstone to Jeffries (where the C# is 1st pull and 2nd push on the right hand outer row.
3. Don't be afraid to play "across the rows" early. You are going to go there anyway
Point 2 is really messy, but I hope you will understand what I mean a few months from now......
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
It is impossible to do anything that teenage daughters will consider cool. A parent's role is a provider of money, food and transport. Apart from that, you stay out of sight.
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
I find with my pupils the most consistent early problem is bellows technique. Watch the vids of Edel Fox and note how she fans the bellows at the top, moving them with an opening of the hands, not a pushing and pulling of the wrists. She has a much more efficient instrument and needs less air but this technique is still vital. If you need to use more bellows movement than this technique allows, when you have fanned the top as far as you can go, keep the top of the moving side where it is and fan the bottom to match. Good bellows technique is the basis of steady rhythm.
You could also practise every variation of the G major scale you can find, using all of the different buttons that carry the same note.
And don't miss the Michelle Mulcahey workshop at Gundagai...
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
The number one thing NOT to do is trying to learn the anglo on your own. Find a good teacher as soon as possible. I did not follow this advice, and I'm still trying to dig myself out of a hole of bad habits developed on my own. I'll get there, of course, with practice, but I've lost a lot of time re-learning fingering patterns, bellows control, etc.
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
Do: become comfortable with routine air button use; remember that you have a left hand; move between rows if it allows you some advantage.
Don't: expect that you'll be able to catch the instrument after tossing it a considerable distance in the air; play the thing around a house cat; neglect your little fingers.
And in the meantime, whatever you do, don't look at the prices of vintage instruments.
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
Control the belows; Keep one end steady on your knee, and push and pull with the other hand. ( You'll figure out which side prefers moving after a bit of practise!).
Don't rest the bellows on your knee. ( Can cause wear on the bellows) .
Where possible, play two or more notes in the same direction before changing direction.
Finally; get used to making decisions about what finger to use in what tune, depending on what note you have just played and where the tune is going!
Enjoy it - it is good fun and you'll always play in tune...
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
>Don't change bellows direction unless you have to, and you will have to, often, so limit it when possible.
I'd have to disagree with this one. This might be true for other genres played on the Anglo, I don't know, but definitely not for ITM.
Do not be afraid of bellows changes and do not string up as many notes as possible in one direction. Bellows changes don't correlate to musical phrases; ie. don't try and play each musical phrase on one "breath", so to speak.
You need to be able to change direction quickly and as unnoticeable as possible at any point in melody and rhythm, so you might as well get used to it right from the start. That might make the initial phase more difficult, but it's still better than having to relearn everything at a later stage.
There are some specific situations in which most players would chose alternate buttons in order to avoid repeated bellows changes at a fast tempo, eg. you'd play the triplet (3gf#e most likely using the right hand g in the accidental row and the e in the left hand G row to play all three notes on the pull.
The use of alternate fingerings (which also influences the bellows directions) depends also on the "school" and style of playing. Adding chords/bass notes often limits the choice of buttons/directions available as does the use and type of ornamentation.
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
To add to the disagreements ...
The bellows-fanning technique recommended by cag is exactly what Noel Hill urges players NOT to do. Noel tells you to keep the ends parallel while keeping one end anchored, as heike described.
I aim for parallel ends because ... well, because I've had it drilled into me. In truth, I doubt there's a single best way to work the bellows.
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
Watching Youtubes of Noel Hill, I had thought him to be a fanner of the open stance sort. That is, starting with a relatively open bellows and working on the second part of the S bend. However, I, essentially self taught, do not argue with Noel Hill. What I am now going to say is, if you can achieve parallel ends then go for it. I can't.
Pulling on the straps and pushing on the rests, because they are offcentre, produces a rocking motion on a bellows change, which is the enemy of steady playing.
Bracing the free end with a finger so it can stay parallel wastes a finger.
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
"How does [Noel Hill] say to achieve parallel ends?"
I don't recall him saying exactly *how* to do it, but in general Noel advocates well-fitting hand straps and exercising muscle control through the arm and shoulder (if I recall correctly ... it's been almost 4 years since my last time at his workshop).
It seems to me that one can minimize the rocking motion you describe through subtle changes in the way your hands contact the rests and straps.
Try this: rest the left end on your left knee and try not to let it move. Depress the air button and open and close the bellows, using only your right hand. Don't try playing any notes. Can you keep the ends (mostly) parallel as you open and close them? i would imagine you can come close.
Now, you just have to add notes to this process.
I wouldn't claim anyone can keep the ends perfectly parallel in this way -- it's just a goal or ideal to work toward. The objective, in the end, is better bellows control.
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
I read that discussion at the time and found it useful but not comprehensive. Excuse me if I seem to be overdetailing this, but when you are not in contact with other concertina players you tend to have to puzzle these things out on your own.
If you look at the picture of Noel Hill in this thread on C.net http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=9688 you will see him in a position I often see in photographs of him. The word parallel would not come to mind.
I have no trouble with the way calling the way he is playing fanning. He is not doing a primary fan like Edel Fox, with the bottom of the bellows touching right across the concertina. He is in the secondary fan, whereby once the top is as open as it can be, if you need more air you have to leave the top where it is, open the bottom a long way, hold the bottom rigid by bearing down (hence the S bend), and fan the top again.
These two parts of the fanning motion have one aspect in common; they are both made the same way, by bearing down on the bellows rather than in or out.
In the primary fan position the opening is done by bearing down with the heel of the hand and the closing by the base of the index finger, the bone called the trapezium, while retaining some downward pressure with the heel of the hand.
When you start fanning in the secondary area the bellows will naturally take up an S bend. Fanning in the primary position is only for very efficient and loud concertinas and people who play little multi-note ornamentation. People who use a lot of air, using many notes and also those who have leaky bellows (Noel Hill's Linota is notoriously leaky) need to adopt the secondary position.
If you want a demonstration of how to push down to open the bellows rather than pull out, start with the bellows closed and your fixed end hand in the handstrap as usual. Now put the hand on the moving side not in the strap but on top of it. Now open the bellows by pushing down. You will find the top fans nicely. To close it, keep the downwards pressure on, but use top of the palm of your hand (the trapezium) to push the bellows shut. There is no wasted movement in this.
You cannot learn the secondary fan like this as your hand needs to be in the strap. Try this; open the bellows about two thirds, bear down towards your legs with the heel of your hand, and keeping this pressure on, fan the bellows in and out using the top of your hand. If you have any rocking movement rather than in or out ,either vertically or horizontally, you are not doing it right.
Reading this back I see it looks more dictatorial than I had intended and more than I feel, but haven't time to rewrite it. I would like comments on the "suggestions" I make as to how to use the bellows. They are working for me but i am a primary fanner.l
Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
I think I just did something stupid. A 'Rochelle' Anglo concertina is
coming in the mail next week. Now I have to learn how to play it.
I've already done some research on this topic of course. Also, I've
been playing ITM fiddle and whistle for a few years. I've met
Mary MacNamara too, but unfortunately that doesn't help.
What are the top three things not to do when you're playing the
Anglo concertina? Hopefully not *all* answers will be silly.
# Posted on July 9th 2009 by Hup
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
Good luck with a new instrument Hup. Your last sentence clearly represents the triumph of hope over experience.
# Posted on July 9th 2009 by showaddydadito
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
By "not to do" I presume you mean not to do at the beginning or in another words bad habits? I don't think that there are any things not to do as such( other than water it or leave it out in the snow etc) but I would suggest that you take the time to explore the concertina fully before beginning to set tunes in stone in your playing. The concertina is "different" in that there are many options in how you play it and there is no doubt that one could develop a way of playing that might be making life difficult later on( there is a document available over at concertina.net which outlines the much talked of and so called "Noel Hill system").
Knowing what style you want to play in will certainly help as for example if you wanted to play fiddle in Donegal style you wouldn't go to Martin Hayes for lessons.The other challenge you might find is that beginner tunes on the fiddle are most certainly not beginner tunes on the concertina.Tunes such as Humours Of Glendart, Gerry's Beaver Hat, Mountain Road will certainly challenge as the note of F# is on the small finger left hand and is situated in what is called The Bermuda Triangle ( where many a good tune was lost) of D,E and F#.Also look out for how your C#s are placed on the first two buttons in the accidental row on the right side.Concertinas with a Jeffries layout usually have two- one on the push and one on the pull.Others might have the two C#s ,push and pull, on the first button and others again might just have one C#.This too can influence how you shape your tunes.But hey, apart from that, go for it.A couple of Valium will help as well !
# Posted on July 9th 2009 by concertinaplayer
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
1.Try not to tense up (shoulders, back)
2.I think the Rochelle comes with Wheatstone layout, so your high C# is on the 1st button push on the right hand outer row.
Try to (it's difficult) always find a fingering involving C# (1st push on the right hand outer row) that makes the note interchangeable: If you are to play a D or a B before or after a C#, play the D or B on the left hand inside row. This might give you an advantage some time down the road, if you were to change systems from Wheatstone to Jeffries (where the C# is 1st pull and 2nd push on the right hand outer row.
3. Don't be afraid to play "across the rows" early. You are going to go there anyway
Point 2 is really messy, but I hope you will understand what I mean a few months from now......
Good luck!
# Posted on July 9th 2009 by snorre
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
Don't try to open the bellows without first depressing the air button.
# Posted on July 9th 2009 by DavyR
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
Don't start playing tunes on a single row with staccato left hand chords unless you want to become a Morris dance musician!
# Posted on July 9th 2009 by TomB-R
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
Thanks guys - I'm impressed. I will burn these tips into my
feeble brain.
# Posted on July 9th 2009 by Hup
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
I've had a go on one of those things - sheesh. More power to you - I'm convinced you need 3 brains to play the concertina! A lovely instrument.
# Posted on July 9th 2009 by Mark Harmer
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
Do not practice for three hours straight in a small apartment.
Do not ignore S/O on holidays and days off in order to practice concertina
Do not believe that teenage daughters will think concertina is "cool"
Good Luck!
# Posted on July 9th 2009 by shanty
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
It is impossible to do anything that teenage daughters will consider cool. A parent's role is a provider of money, food and transport. Apart from that, you stay out of sight.
# Posted on July 9th 2009 by minijackpot
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
I find with my pupils the most consistent early problem is bellows technique. Watch the vids of Edel Fox and note how she fans the bellows at the top, moving them with an opening of the hands, not a pushing and pulling of the wrists. She has a much more efficient instrument and needs less air but this technique is still vital. If you need to use more bellows movement than this technique allows, when you have fanned the top as far as you can go, keep the top of the moving side where it is and fan the bottom to match. Good bellows technique is the basis of steady rhythm.
You could also practise every variation of the G major scale you can find, using all of the different buttons that carry the same note.
And don't miss the Michelle Mulcahey workshop at Gundagai...
# Posted on July 9th 2009 by cag
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
The number one thing NOT to do is trying to learn the anglo on your own. Find a good teacher as soon as possible. I did not follow this advice, and I'm still trying to dig myself out of a hole of bad habits developed on my own. I'll get there, of course, with practice, but I've lost a lot of time re-learning fingering patterns, bellows control, etc.
Have fun, it's an enchanting little beast !
# Posted on July 9th 2009 by alec b
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
Do: become comfortable with routine air button use; remember that you have a left hand; move between rows if it allows you some advantage.
Don't: expect that you'll be able to catch the instrument after tossing it a considerable distance in the air; play the thing around a house cat; neglect your little fingers.
And in the meantime, whatever you do, don't look at the prices of vintage instruments.
# Posted on July 9th 2009 by gravelwalks
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
1. Don't get it wet
2. Don't get it wet
3. Keep it dry
# Posted on July 9th 2009 by greg sheils
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
A few tips I remember from my one half hour lesson: (I need about 1000 more half hour lessons)
Don't change bellows direction unless you have to, and you will have to, often, so limit it when possible.
Use the buttons rather than the bellows to separate notes.
# Posted on July 9th 2009 by CleverName
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
Control the belows; Keep one end steady on your knee, and push and pull with the other hand. ( You'll figure out which side prefers moving after a bit of practise!).
Don't rest the bellows on your knee. ( Can cause wear on the bellows) .
Where possible, play two or more notes in the same direction before changing direction.
Finally; get used to making decisions about what finger to use in what tune, depending on what note you have just played and where the tune is going!
Enjoy it - it is good fun and you'll always play in tune...
# Posted on July 9th 2009 by southsider
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
>Don't change bellows direction unless you have to, and you will have to, often, so limit it when possible.
I'd have to disagree with this one. This might be true for other genres played on the Anglo, I don't know, but definitely not for ITM.
Do not be afraid of bellows changes and do not string up as many notes as possible in one direction. Bellows changes don't correlate to musical phrases; ie. don't try and play each musical phrase on one "breath", so to speak.
You need to be able to change direction quickly and as unnoticeable as possible at any point in melody and rhythm, so you might as well get used to it right from the start. That might make the initial phase more difficult, but it's still better than having to relearn everything at a later stage.
There are some specific situations in which most players would chose alternate buttons in order to avoid repeated bellows changes at a fast tempo, eg. you'd play the triplet (3gf#e most likely using the right hand g in the accidental row and the e in the left hand G row to play all three notes on the pull.
The use of alternate fingerings (which also influences the bellows directions) depends also on the "school" and style of playing. Adding chords/bass notes often limits the choice of buttons/directions available as does the use and type of ornamentation.
# Posted on July 9th 2009 by heike
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
There's only one: Give it up before it's too late.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by Phantom Button
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
Thanks people - you only live once, so I decided I had to find out
what this instrument is like to play, even if I only do it for a few
months.
I wish there was 'Rochelle' full set of pipes to try out too!
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by Hup
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
Oh... NOT to do... uh... let me change mine... do NOT try to play this thing... it will ruin your life.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by Phantom Button
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
To add to the disagreements ...
The bellows-fanning technique recommended by cag is exactly what Noel Hill urges players NOT to do. Noel tells you to keep the ends parallel while keeping one end anchored, as heike described.
I aim for parallel ends because ... well, because I've had it drilled into me. In truth, I doubt there's a single best way to work the bellows.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by boxist
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
Watching Youtubes of Noel Hill, I had thought him to be a fanner of the open stance sort. That is, starting with a relatively open bellows and working on the second part of the S bend. However, I, essentially self taught, do not argue with Noel Hill. What I am now going to say is, if you can achieve parallel ends then go for it. I can't.
Pulling on the straps and pushing on the rests, because they are offcentre, produces a rocking motion on a bellows change, which is the enemy of steady playing.
Bracing the free end with a finger so it can stay parallel wastes a finger.
How does he say to achieve parallel ends?
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by cag
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
Fox is one of the players whose style I like along with Michael O'R
and Tim Collins.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by Hup
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
"How does [Noel Hill] say to achieve parallel ends?"
I don't recall him saying exactly *how* to do it, but in general Noel advocates well-fitting hand straps and exercising muscle control through the arm and shoulder (if I recall correctly ... it's been almost 4 years since my last time at his workshop).
It seems to me that one can minimize the rocking motion you describe through subtle changes in the way your hands contact the rests and straps.
Try this: rest the left end on your left knee and try not to let it move. Depress the air button and open and close the bellows, using only your right hand. Don't try playing any notes. Can you keep the ends (mostly) parallel as you open and close them? i would imagine you can come close.
Now, you just have to add notes to this process.
I wouldn't claim anyone can keep the ends perfectly parallel in this way -- it's just a goal or ideal to work toward. The objective, in the end, is better bellows control.
This discussion was played out at length on concertina.net in this thread: http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=9094. See especially post #9 for what i think is a good description of Noel's approach.
All that said, I think this is one of those things that comes down to personal preference.
# Posted on July 11th 2009 by boxist
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
I read that discussion at the time and found it useful but not comprehensive. Excuse me if I seem to be overdetailing this, but when you are not in contact with other concertina players you tend to have to puzzle these things out on your own.
If you look at the picture of Noel Hill in this thread on C.net http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=9688 you will see him in a position I often see in photographs of him. The word parallel would not come to mind.
I have no trouble with the way calling the way he is playing fanning. He is not doing a primary fan like Edel Fox, with the bottom of the bellows touching right across the concertina. He is in the secondary fan, whereby once the top is as open as it can be, if you need more air you have to leave the top where it is, open the bottom a long way, hold the bottom rigid by bearing down (hence the S bend), and fan the top again.
These two parts of the fanning motion have one aspect in common; they are both made the same way, by bearing down on the bellows rather than in or out.
In the primary fan position the opening is done by bearing down with the heel of the hand and the closing by the base of the index finger, the bone called the trapezium, while retaining some downward pressure with the heel of the hand.
When you start fanning in the secondary area the bellows will naturally take up an S bend. Fanning in the primary position is only for very efficient and loud concertinas and people who play little multi-note ornamentation. People who use a lot of air, using many notes and also those who have leaky bellows (Noel Hill's Linota is notoriously leaky) need to adopt the secondary position.
If you want a demonstration of how to push down to open the bellows rather than pull out, start with the bellows closed and your fixed end hand in the handstrap as usual. Now put the hand on the moving side not in the strap but on top of it. Now open the bellows by pushing down. You will find the top fans nicely. To close it, keep the downwards pressure on, but use top of the palm of your hand (the trapezium) to push the bellows shut. There is no wasted movement in this.
You cannot learn the secondary fan like this as your hand needs to be in the strap. Try this; open the bellows about two thirds, bear down towards your legs with the heel of your hand, and keeping this pressure on, fan the bellows in and out using the top of your hand. If you have any rocking movement rather than in or out ,either vertically or horizontally, you are not doing it right.
Reading this back I see it looks more dictatorial than I had intended and more than I feel, but haven't time to rewrite it. I would like comments on the "suggestions" I make as to how to use the bellows. They are working for me but i am a primary fanner.l
# Posted on July 13th 2009 by cag
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
Received in 6 days from Boston, apparently intact.
# Posted on July 15th 2009 by Hup
Re: Top three things not to do on the Anglo concertina
Can't think of any immediate help for you in Canberra. I love Richard C's playing but his having a G/D does not help much...
# Posted on July 16th 2009 by cag