Or is it about the people who love it, play it, listen to it, is it about nurturing the young folk, socialising, making friends, improving skills and hopefully one day growing up? I commend this young man's work to you. http://www.youtube.com/user/bodhran105?as=1#play/user/EEEA069DDDE39E9F
Cheers, John
We've had this one out many times and the general consensus is that it's about the tunes. It's about humbling oneself before the tunes. Tunes tunes tunes tunes tunes. Nothing more.
So could you have a good time playing the tunes in a cold concert hall with a group of excellent musicians who don't talk to you and just sit there staring at the floor? Nah, for me it's just as much about going out for a drink with my mates. If the tunes happen, great; if not, it's not the end of the world.
It's much better for me if the tunes do happen because then I get free beer, and I like beer. The mates I go drinking with are mates because we play tunes. We're mates for life now but we probably wouldn't have even met had it not been for the tunes.
Dow, I see where you are coming from, and I agree. But the question is specific. Is this music about the music? It's not a well constructed question but it can mean nothing more than what it says. And the music is about the tunes. The crack is a different kettle of fish. Could you have a good time playing on your own in your kitchen staring at the floor? Yes. And you can have a good time down the boozer with your chums. The common element is the tunes.
It's more than just the music its the friendship too. I would hate a session where nobody talks to one another. The music is VERY important but you need the craic as well.
Like thousands and thousands of traditional musicians I am quite happy playing at home alone for hours and hours - because I love the tunes, learning them and playing them. I don't care if anyone is listening or if there is anyone to get the craic with. The craic is great but an optional extra. The guy in the spoons clip above is spreading poison. Lazy mans way into trad - unmusical and highly irritating to anyone who really loves the tunes. If he played along to a reel it's about his ego, not the music.
I've had one foot in the ITM session scene and one foot in the Highland Pipe Band scene for the last 30+ years, and it's interesting how the "scene", the milieu or envronment, of the two musics is more different than the musics themselves (indeed sometimes the same tune is played in both.)
In the ITM session scene you hang out in a pub with a bunch of friends/aquaintences/strangers and drink and blow through a vast number of tunes learnt by ear and on the fly.
In the GHB Pipe Band scene you go to practice once or twice a week and rehearse the same few tunes over and over to polish them to the greatest point of perfection you can. You bond with the people in your band; they become your second family. Then several times a year you go to "Highland Games" where you socialise with the people in all the other bands, people you only see in that context. You practice hard and play hard and you try to win and try to beat the other bands but after competition is over (usually by 4pm or so) everyone from all the bands gather in the "beer tent" and you party hard.
And in each "scene" there are people who are in it purely for the music, and people in it mostly for the "scene"/craic/cameraderie/people/socialising, and every shade in between.
It's funny, with myself I'm more social at Highland Games than at sessions. Perhaps it's because the session goes on and on without much in the way of breaks, but at Highland Games the Pipe Bands really don't spend all that much time actually playing. The "competition set" itself only lasts 6 or 7 minutes.
It's great playing with other people (sometimes...depending on the people) but , like bogman, I can lose myself in the tunes for hours at a time. Looking forward this W/E to heading up to the mountains, alone, with banjo and whistle.
To me the craic and the music are 2 very different things; playing alone or playing with other people. For me its the tunes and what we do with them that matters most. The craic just happens to stem from the music making in a social context, it is an aside. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the roots of my music making. For me It is an irrelevance.
Doing it with someone else is best but I find it’s OK playing with myself at home. I like to look in a mirror so that I think I’m not so lonely and someone else is there with me. Sometimes I try strumming left handed. This gives the impression of someone else actually doing it for you. Sitting on your hands until they go numb can have a similar effect but you really have to concentrate to make to make sure the tune comes.
Now everybody’s got a crazy notion of their own.
Some like to mix up with a crowd, some like to be alone.
It’s no one elses’ business as far as I can see,
But every time that I go out the people stare at me,
With me little ukulele in me hand.
Of course the people do not understand.
Some say why don’t you be a scout, why don’t you read a book?
But I get much more pleasure when I’m playing on me uke.
Of course I take no notice you can tell, for Mothers’ sound advice will always stand:
She said, ‘My Boy, do what I say and you’ll never go astray,
If you keep your ukulele in your hand.
Yes, Son. Keep your ukulele in your hand.
I'm with Llig on this: you can't learn to play an instrument, you can only learn to play music. The craic is seperate from the music, and not to be confused with it; enjoyable as it may be. For music, read 'tunes'.
A person can't learn to play an instrument? Boy, that's the truth, eh? I wish people would learn how to play their instruments before trying to play music on them.
It is kind of depressing to play amongst people who won't talk to
you. There can be a few different reasons for that. I think one of
them is the fear of being "uncool" in front of your colleagues.
That's an affliction of the 20-30 somethings (particularly the ones
from Melbourne
Another is being tongue tied or shy - being no good at chatting -
that's my problem. I'm no good at it - I get bored with it
unless it's really good quality 'chat' and I'd rather play tunes.
Having said that, one of the most valued and best people at my
local session is a guy who chooses not to play any instrument. But
he's there every week to chat with people and help the gossip flow.
Not only does he not play an instrument, he also does not play
the bodhran or spoons - even better!
Sometimes music is about sharing. But not all the time. When you play alone for your own enjoyment it can be very selfish, especially when you should be doing the hoovering or something.
Llig: "the question is specific. Is this music about the music? It's not a well constructed question but it can mean nothing more than what it says. And the music is about the tunes. The crack is a different kettle of fish. "
I see where you're coming from too. However, I don't think you can divorce the music from its different social contexts and functions. Music - just like language and conversation - can't exist in a social vacuum. I'm not talking about Irish social contexts in (and from) Ireland - I'm talking more broadly about sessions as social phenomena.
I can and regularly (though not as often as I'd like) divorce the music from its different social contexts. Every time I play by myself for my own enjoyment I divorce the music from all social contexts and enjoy it in an antisocial context.
"I can and regularly (though not as often as I'd like) divorce the music from its different social contexts. Every time I play by myself for my own enjoyment I divorce the music from all social contexts and enjoy it in an antisocial context."
Fair enough - I play more often on my own than I do with other people, but that's not ALL the music is about for either of us, right? Asocial context is only one social context of many associated with the music. Again you can use the language analogy: if I walk around my house talking to myself, I'm using a language which has developed over thousands of years and has its own peculiarities, the subtlties of which are only accessible to certain people who are proficient in it. I might really enjoy playing the music alone, but you can also communicate/bond with people through it. Whether you choose to access that aspect of the music or not is immaterial - it's still part of what the music is about.
Is this music about the music?
Is this music about the music?
Or is it about the people who love it, play it, listen to it, is it about nurturing the young folk, socialising, making friends, improving skills and hopefully one day growing up? I commend this young man's work to you.
http://www.youtube.com/user/bodhran105?as=1#play/user/EEEA069DDDE39E9F
Cheers, John
# Posted on July 7th 2009 by mcknowall
Re: Is this music about the music?
sorry, make that
http://www.youtube.com/user/bodhran105?as=1#play/user/EEEA069DDDE39E9F/0/2RhKSod_eV8
# Posted on July 7th 2009 by mcknowall
Re: Is this music about the music?
"hopefully one day growing up?"
Cripes! I hadn't planned on that. The music's a way of putting it off.
# Posted on July 7th 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Is this music about the music?
We've had this one out many times and the general consensus is that it's about the tunes. It's about humbling oneself before the tunes. Tunes tunes tunes tunes tunes. Nothing more.
# Posted on July 7th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Is this music about the music?
So could you have a good time playing the tunes in a cold concert hall with a group of excellent musicians who don't talk to you and just sit there staring at the floor? Nah, for me it's just as much about going out for a drink with my mates. If the tunes happen, great; if not, it's not the end of the world.
# Posted on July 7th 2009 by Dr. Dow
Re: Is this music about the music?
"tunes tunes tunes tunes tunes. Nothing more"
And bodhrans.
# Posted on July 7th 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Is this music about the music?
It's much better for me if the tunes do happen because then I get free beer, and I like beer. The mates I go drinking with are mates because we play tunes. We're mates for life now but we probably wouldn't have even met had it not been for the tunes.
# Posted on July 7th 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: Is this music about the music?
Dow, I see where you are coming from, and I agree. But the question is specific. Is this music about the music? It's not a well constructed question but it can mean nothing more than what it says. And the music is about the tunes. The crack is a different kettle of fish. Could you have a good time playing on your own in your kitchen staring at the floor? Yes. And you can have a good time down the boozer with your chums. The common element is the tunes.
# Posted on July 7th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Is this music about the music?
Or put it another way, without the tunes, it's not the music.
# Posted on July 7th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Is this music about the music?
Cheaper than a bodhran.... you could try this would go down well in lligs session.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK_M8TIEE-4
# Posted on July 7th 2009 by Bernie
Re: Is this music about the music?
Yes, as in all genres of music, it's the music.
# Posted on July 7th 2009 by shanty
Re: Is this music about the music?
It's more than just the music its the friendship too. I would hate a session where nobody talks to one another. The music is VERY important but you need the craic as well.
# Posted on July 7th 2009 by Bernie
Re: Is this music about the music?
Like thousands and thousands of traditional musicians I am quite happy playing at home alone for hours and hours - because I love the tunes, learning them and playing them. I don't care if anyone is listening or if there is anyone to get the craic with. The craic is great but an optional extra. The guy in the spoons clip above is spreading poison. Lazy mans way into trad - unmusical and highly irritating to anyone who really loves the tunes. If he played along to a reel it's about his ego, not the music.
# Posted on July 7th 2009 by bogman
Re: Is this music about the music?
I've had one foot in the ITM session scene and one foot in the Highland Pipe Band scene for the last 30+ years, and it's interesting how the "scene", the milieu or envronment, of the two musics is more different than the musics themselves (indeed sometimes the same tune is played in both.)
In the ITM session scene you hang out in a pub with a bunch of friends/aquaintences/strangers and drink and blow through a vast number of tunes learnt by ear and on the fly.
In the GHB Pipe Band scene you go to practice once or twice a week and rehearse the same few tunes over and over to polish them to the greatest point of perfection you can. You bond with the people in your band; they become your second family. Then several times a year you go to "Highland Games" where you socialise with the people in all the other bands, people you only see in that context. You practice hard and play hard and you try to win and try to beat the other bands but after competition is over (usually by 4pm or so) everyone from all the bands gather in the "beer tent" and you party hard.
And in each "scene" there are people who are in it purely for the music, and people in it mostly for the "scene"/craic/cameraderie/people/socialising, and every shade in between.
It's funny, with myself I'm more social at Highland Games than at sessions. Perhaps it's because the session goes on and on without much in the way of breaks, but at Highland Games the Pipe Bands really don't spend all that much time actually playing. The "competition set" itself only lasts 6 or 7 minutes.
# Posted on July 7th 2009 by Richard D Cook
Re: Is this music about the music?
It's great playing with other people (sometimes...depending on the people) but , like bogman, I can lose myself in the tunes for hours at a time. Looking forward this W/E to heading up to the mountains, alone, with banjo and whistle.
# Posted on July 7th 2009 by shanty
Re: Is this music about the music?
To me the craic and the music are 2 very different things; playing alone or playing with other people. For me its the tunes and what we do with them that matters most. The craic just happens to stem from the music making in a social context, it is an aside. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the roots of my music making. For me It is an irrelevance.
# Posted on July 7th 2009 by piobagusfidil
Having fun on your own
Doing it with someone else is best but I find it’s OK playing with myself at home. I like to look in a mirror so that I think I’m not so lonely and someone else is there with me. Sometimes I try strumming left handed. This gives the impression of someone else actually doing it for you. Sitting on your hands until they go numb can have a similar effect but you really have to concentrate to make to make sure the tune comes.
# Posted on July 7th 2009 by Krick Stahlschwanz
Re: Is this music about the music?
Try sitting on your instrument krick, then it will seem like you are playing with someone else.
# Posted on July 7th 2009 by mcknowall
Re: Is this music about the music?
Krick is following the advice of the Master:
Now everybody’s got a crazy notion of their own.
Some like to mix up with a crowd, some like to be alone.
It’s no one elses’ business as far as I can see,
But every time that I go out the people stare at me,
With me little ukulele in me hand.
Of course the people do not understand.
Some say why don’t you be a scout, why don’t you read a book?
But I get much more pleasure when I’m playing on me uke.
Of course I take no notice you can tell, for Mothers’ sound advice will always stand:
She said, ‘My Boy, do what I say and you’ll never go astray,
If you keep your ukulele in your hand.
Yes, Son. Keep your ukulele in your hand.
# Posted on July 7th 2009 by RichardB
Re: Is this music about the music?
Indeed!
There is a lot of pleasure to be gained from playing with your flute, or fiddling by yourself.
It can sometimes take too long time for a set of pipes to be fully ready for a good session when all you want is a quick jig..
# Posted on July 7th 2009 by T
Re: Is this music about the music?
........playing slow airs when you just want to rosin your bow and tear into it............
# Posted on July 7th 2009 by T
Re: Is this music about the music?
I'm with Llig on this: you can't learn to play an instrument, you can only learn to play music. The craic is seperate from the music, and not to be confused with it; enjoyable as it may be. For music, read 'tunes'.
# Posted on July 7th 2009 by gam
Re: Is this music about the music?
A person can't learn to play an instrument? Boy, that's the truth, eh? I wish people would learn how to play their instruments before trying to play music on them.
# Posted on July 7th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Is this music about the music?
It's a joke, yeah, but actually, its a big problem. People trying to learn to play their instruments "before" they try to learn to play music.
# Posted on July 8th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Is this music about the music?
It is kind of depressing to play amongst people who won't talk to
you. There can be a few different reasons for that. I think one of
them is the fear of being "uncool" in front of your colleagues.
That's an affliction of the 20-30 somethings (particularly the ones
from Melbourne
Another is being tongue tied or shy - being no good at chatting -
that's my problem. I'm no good at it - I get bored with it
unless it's really good quality 'chat' and I'd rather play tunes.
# Posted on July 8th 2009 by Hup
Re: Is this music about the music?
Having said that, one of the most valued and best people at my
local session is a guy who chooses not to play any instrument. But
he's there every week to chat with people and help the gossip flow.
Not only does he not play an instrument, he also does not play
the bodhran or spoons - even better!
# Posted on July 8th 2009 by Hup
Re: Is this music about the music?
Yes to what Michael said. Vis a vis the video in the first post of this recent thread: http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/22010
# Posted on July 8th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: Is this music about the music?
Perhaps the pursuit of this music, when it is a healthy pursuit, is all about sharing with others, in one form or another.
You share it with others playing, listening, performing for pay or just playing for yourself and your mates.
The motives for sharing it are as varied as the people who play it -
"Hey, check THIS TUNE out!"
or
"Hey, check ME out!"
or
"Hey, check US out!"
Sometimes, it is simply sharing a moment and a few notes, in a way that defies mere words or our limited ability to put them together.
Hmmn.
It got deep there.
Sorry, all.
# Posted on July 8th 2009 by Piece
Re: Is this music about the music?
Sometimes music is about sharing. But not all the time. When you play alone for your own enjoyment it can be very selfish, especially when you should be doing the hoovering or something.
# Posted on July 8th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Is this music about the music?
That's why a solid wood floor is the way to go.
# Posted on July 8th 2009 by bogman
Re: Is this music about the music?
... or washing your sold wood floors
# Posted on July 8th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Is this music about the music?
Llig: "the question is specific. Is this music about the music? It's not a well constructed question but it can mean nothing more than what it says. And the music is about the tunes. The crack is a different kettle of fish. "
I see where you're coming from too. However, I don't think you can divorce the music from its different social contexts and functions. Music - just like language and conversation - can't exist in a social vacuum. I'm not talking about Irish social contexts in (and from) Ireland - I'm talking more broadly about sessions as social phenomena.
# Posted on July 8th 2009 by Dr. Dow
Re: Is this music about the music?
I can and regularly (though not as often as I'd like) divorce the music from its different social contexts. Every time I play by myself for my own enjoyment I divorce the music from all social contexts and enjoy it in an antisocial context.
# Posted on July 8th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Is this music about the music?
Antisocial could mean you put it through a 100-watt amp with all your windows open at 3 a.m. Do you mean "asocial?"
# Posted on July 8th 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: Is this music about the music?
Yes Steve, good correction
# Posted on July 8th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Is this music about the music?
Pity, I was going to stand under your window with a minidisc.
# Posted on July 8th 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: Is this music about the music?
Hi, Llig:
I did say "all about sharing", didn't I? Oops.
I agree, I mis-spoke. I, too, will occasionally play for my own enjoyment of the music, with no one around to hear but the cats.
There is definately that aspect of the music and its pursuit as well.
Good point.
# Posted on July 9th 2009 by Piece
Re: Is this music about the music?
"I can and regularly (though not as often as I'd like) divorce the music from its different social contexts. Every time I play by myself for my own enjoyment I divorce the music from all social contexts and enjoy it in an antisocial context."
Fair enough - I play more often on my own than I do with other people, but that's not ALL the music is about for either of us, right? Asocial context is only one social context of many associated with the music. Again you can use the language analogy: if I walk around my house talking to myself, I'm using a language which has developed over thousands of years and has its own peculiarities, the subtlties of which are only accessible to certain people who are proficient in it. I might really enjoy playing the music alone, but you can also communicate/bond with people through it. Whether you choose to access that aspect of the music or not is immaterial - it's still part of what the music is about.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by Dr. Dow
Re: Is this music about the music?
I never said it wasn't part of what the music is about. All I said is that it's not part of it all the time.
The only thing that is common to all the aspects and ways of playing the music, or of even merely thinking about it, is the tunes themselves.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Is this music about the music?
Hmmn.
"enjoy it in an antisocial context."
One might call my fiddling by myself NON-social -
it's my piping that might be called my ANTI-social, I suppose.
I'll ask the neighbors.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by Piece