A fan of pure acoustic music, I have a problem with amplification, however, there are some cases to be made, such as the mandolin which is quite soft, or the odd guitar having to accompany 2 or 3 fiddles and a banjo for instance. Can this however get out of hand? And does amplification, however discreet mean louder voices in the pub as people try to compensate for the noise and is this desirable? I’m sure somebody on this thread will point out that this was discussed before and to see discussion #23 of 1903, so I’ll quickly ask my most important questions. Is there such a thing as an electric bodhran?
I've miked up the bodhran for stage performances, but no, I don't think there is!
A tie-clip type mike can be set up to get a reasonable sound, with a little ingenuity, giving you freedom to move about.
Henk, fairpoint. Peformance quite likely would require amplification. But these days I sometimes see this in sessions. But also, we have electric stringed instruments (incl violin). I suppose an electric flute could be pretty dangerous
I would say: no amplification of certain instruments in sessions. Whatsoever. Sooner or later you are going to have a race in amplification, even if the first one to start with it is a mandolin - which in itself would be fair. Later on the fiddler with the quiet instrument is the next to amplify, then the guitar player, and then the mandolin player who started in the first place turns the volume a bit up, etc, etc.
Given that these http://www.technopipes.com/
as discussed the other day here, http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/21775
seem to have all the electronics and battery inside to run direct to headphones, perhaps motion sensors could be put inside something similar and tipper sized, running to headphones, then a legion of electronic bodhran players could merrily play away without anyone else being able to hear a thing!
Of course, since the thing would be so small and there's no need for the drum itself, they'd be sitting down getting ready to play before anyone else realised what was going on.....
Henk, This is absolutely right - it would escalate.
In a bluegrass band I once joined, the mandolin and guitarist decided to go electric because the 5-string banjo and dobro were too loud. Then the upright bass player decided that rather than carry his huge acousting instrument, he would bring his electric bass. The first 45 minutes of our 2.5 hours weekly practice time were taken up with tuning up to the right volume. Mad!
Back to bodhran, I wonder an integrated pick-up in the body of the bodhran pick up the many subtleties of beating and the change of notes?
Lisaniska, nice image I do love the notion of androids doing a mad jig.
Come on, a volume knob on a solid-bodied electric bodhran could be a V.Good thing. I've seen enough knobs on acoustic bodhrans, so I'm sure it can be done.
I've played on occasions with a very good mandolin player who uses a small amp which fits in her handbag. It has led to no "session arms race" whatsoever.
I used to play in a jug band which would drop their volume when a mandolin solo came up. Your chances of an average pub session doing something like that are somewhere between zero and none at all
Cath, you get my vote for best discussion thread title of the month.
And I was at a dance not long ago where someone complained that they couldn't hear the bodhran. True, but we didn't really need to hear it; the rest of the band kept us dancing.
On the Bank Holiday Monday earlier this month I was at a village fair in Somerset where there was morris dancing (out of doors, of course). One dance was accompanied by a solo mandolin that had a pickup leading to a portable amplifier-speaker hanging from the musician's belt - possibly a little like that which Bren described a few posts back. Under those circumstances it was obviously the only way the dancers could hear the music.
Speaking as one of the small number of musicians who has been playing an electronic instrument with acoustic musicians for many years, it seems to me that it is simple, plain common sense to keep the volume low enough on my electronic keyboard so I can hear all of the other instruments at the session. You aren't supposed to be playing music at the session so loudly that you can hear only yourself. It isn't intended to be a solo performance. It is supposed to be a cooperative effort where all of you are working together to enjoy yourselves and have fun by playing music.
If you have to turn the volume up or play louder just so you can hear either yourself or the other musicians, then maybe you need to have your hearing checked by an audiologist. Hearing loss does seems to be an occupational hazard for musicians.
On the other hand, if you are performing with a band and using a sound system, then you should have a competent sound technician to keep the volume adjusted to the proper levels so everybody can hear themselves as well as the rest of the band.
Hmmm.... No amplification should be required. If the instrument in question is too quiet for a session - perhaps play one which is loud enough. However, I'm also in agreement with llig - other players should maybe be playing a bit more softly - which I would have thought a considerate musician would do anyway.
"No amplification should be required" - and not always for bands.
I had personal experience of that last weekend when I turned up for my occasional sit-in as a "friend" with a band for set-dancers, only to find that the resident band with its PA system wasn't going to be there. Another "friend" of the band, an excellent box player who had traveled some considerable distance, arrived shortly after me. So the two of us ended up at very short notice as the band for the 16 dancers. The dancers had no trouble in hearing both of us despite the absence of a PA system, and everything went surprisingly well.
Incidentally, we didn't play sets of tunes for each dance figure, but played instead just one tune per figure, it just not being practicable to organise ad hoc tune sets at such short notice. This policy worked very smoothly, to the dancers' evident approval, and you also don't get the occasional flat spot between _different_ tunes that happens when you haven't had a chance to practice the transition.
Do androids dream of electric goats
Do androids dream of electric goats
A fan of pure acoustic music, I have a problem with amplification, however, there are some cases to be made, such as the mandolin which is quite soft, or the odd guitar having to accompany 2 or 3 fiddles and a banjo for instance. Can this however get out of hand? And does amplification, however discreet mean louder voices in the pub as people try to compensate for the noise and is this desirable? I’m sure somebody on this thread will point out that this was discussed before and to see discussion #23 of 1903, so I’ll quickly ask my most important questions. Is there such a thing as an electric bodhran?
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by Cath
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
heaven forbid
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
I've miked up the bodhran for stage performances, but no, I don't think there is!
A tie-clip type mike can be set up to get a reasonable sound, with a little ingenuity, giving you freedom to move about.
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by RockyRoader
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
well....kinda....
http://www.bodhranmaker.de/new/index.php?Bodhrans:The%26nbsp%3Bnew_HEDWITSCHAK_SR
...has a built-in mic, to save all the messing around ye have to do with (sometimes 2 seperate) mic's to get it right for the bass and top-end.
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by andy69
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
Cath, are you talking about a session or a performance?
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by Henk Bos
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
Henk, fairpoint. Peformance quite likely would require amplification. But these days I sometimes see this in sessions. But also, we have electric stringed instruments (incl violin). I suppose an electric flute could be pretty dangerous
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by Cath
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
Do you mean an electric bodhran as in electric chair (not a bad idea) or as in an amplified bodhran (a very bad idea)?
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by skreech
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
I would say: no amplification of certain instruments in sessions. Whatsoever. Sooner or later you are going to have a race in amplification, even if the first one to start with it is a mandolin - which in itself would be fair. Later on the fiddler with the quiet instrument is the next to amplify, then the guitar player, and then the mandolin player who started in the first place turns the volume a bit up, etc, etc.
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by Henk Bos
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
What ever was wrong with keeping it down to match the quiter players? Again, mere common sense
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
Good point.
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by Henk Bos
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
for live work try an industry standard SM57 behind it or, better still, an SM58 mic and EQ to the room
either way keep it away from the bass amp / monitor and the electric androids can dance 'til their hearts content across the 'live' skin
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by lisaniska
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
Given that these
http://www.technopipes.com/
as discussed the other day here,
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/21775
seem to have all the electronics and battery inside to run direct to headphones, perhaps motion sensors could be put inside something similar and tipper sized, running to headphones, then a legion of electronic bodhran players could merrily play away without anyone else being able to hear a thing!
Of course, since the thing would be so small and there's no need for the drum itself, they'd be sitting down getting ready to play before anyone else realised what was going on.....
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by TomB-R
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
Henk, This is absolutely right - it would escalate.
In a bluegrass band I once joined, the mandolin and guitarist decided to go electric because the 5-string banjo and dobro were too loud. Then the upright bass player decided that rather than carry his huge acousting instrument, he would bring his electric bass. The first 45 minutes of our 2.5 hours weekly practice time were taken up with tuning up to the right volume. Mad!
Back to bodhran, I wonder an integrated pick-up in the body of the bodhran pick up the many subtleties of beating and the change of notes?
Lisaniska, nice image I do love the notion of androids doing a mad jig.
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by Cath
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
Amplification seems to me to equate to a nuclear arms race. . . once one country gets a nuke, the rest of the world wants them just in case. . .
We'd all probably be better off if we just forgot the entire idea. . . nukes and amplifiers.
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by lastnitesfun
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
Come on, a volume knob on a solid-bodied electric bodhran could be a V.Good thing. I've seen enough knobs on acoustic bodhrans, so I'm sure it can be done.
I've played on occasions with a very good mandolin player who uses a small amp which fits in her handbag. It has led to no "session arms race" whatsoever.
I used to play in a jug band which would drop their volume when a mandolin solo came up. Your chances of an average pub session doing something like that are somewhere between zero and none at all
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by Bren
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
"the change of notes"? Come on now, keep it real.
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
Gary Larsen of Far Side fame more or less answered this one:
Welcome to Heaven. Here is your harp.
Welcome to Hell. Here is your electric bodhran.
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
Cath, you get my vote for best discussion thread title of the month.
And I was at a dance not long ago where someone complained that they couldn't hear the bodhran. True, but we didn't really need to hear it; the rest of the band kept us dancing.
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by Michele Sims
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
On the Bank Holiday Monday earlier this month I was at a village fair in Somerset where there was morris dancing (out of doors, of course). One dance was accompanied by a solo mandolin that had a pickup leading to a portable amplifier-speaker hanging from the musician's belt - possibly a little like that which Bren described a few posts back. Under those circumstances it was obviously the only way the dancers could hear the music.
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
Hey Batlady. Do me a favour and convey that anecdote to "bodhranwisdom" on this thread:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/21784
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
Speaking as one of the small number of musicians who has been playing an electronic instrument with acoustic musicians for many years, it seems to me that it is simple, plain common sense to keep the volume low enough on my electronic keyboard so I can hear all of the other instruments at the session. You aren't supposed to be playing music at the session so loudly that you can hear only yourself. It isn't intended to be a solo performance. It is supposed to be a cooperative effort where all of you are working together to enjoy yourselves and have fun by playing music.
If you have to turn the volume up or play louder just so you can hear either yourself or the other musicians, then maybe you need to have your hearing checked by an audiologist. Hearing loss does seems to be an occupational hazard for musicians.
On the other hand, if you are performing with a band and using a sound system, then you should have a competent sound technician to keep the volume adjusted to the proper levels so everybody can hear themselves as well as the rest of the band.
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
Hmmm.... No amplification should be required. If the instrument in question is too quiet for a session - perhaps play one which is loud enough. However, I'm also in agreement with llig - other players should maybe be playing a bit more softly - which I would have thought a considerate musician would do anyway.
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by Ron P
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
Consideration is a prerequisite for any decent musician.
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
"No amplification should be required" - and not always for bands.
I had personal experience of that last weekend when I turned up for my occasional sit-in as a "friend" with a band for set-dancers, only to find that the resident band with its PA system wasn't going to be there. Another "friend" of the band, an excellent box player who had traveled some considerable distance, arrived shortly after me. So the two of us ended up at very short notice as the band for the 16 dancers. The dancers had no trouble in hearing both of us despite the absence of a PA system, and everything went surprisingly well.
Incidentally, we didn't play sets of tunes for each dance figure, but played instead just one tune per figure, it just not being practicable to organise ad hoc tune sets at such short notice. This policy worked very smoothly, to the dancers' evident approval, and you also don't get the occasional flat spot between _different_ tunes that happens when you haven't had a chance to practice the transition.
# Posted on June 13th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
"Consideration is a prerequisite for any decent musician."
Spot in llig.
# Posted on June 13th 2009 by Ron P
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
Well done lazy. I hate those flat spots! good call.
# Posted on June 13th 2009 by piobagusfidil
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
What do we want?
Proportional Representation.
When do we want it?
Tuesday please.
# Posted on June 13th 2009 by cyber-bullying is a criminal offence
Re: Do androids dream of electric goats
Gary Larsen is class
# Posted on June 19th 2009 by lisaniska