I keep seeing all this stuff about how a lot of people dont like bodhrans...I think they sound really nice and dont understand where all the drama is coming from.
If everyone who played the bodhran was a drummer, there'd be no problem.
However, people who don't know anything about drumming always try to play them. In fact, the vast majority of people at sessions playing bodhrans are not drummers in the first place, which causes all the bad bias against them on here and in real life.
Why do non-drummers decide that playing a drum would be the easiest way for them to participate in a session?
Ok...but maybe because its an easy instrument to learn?? Once you know the rhythms you can play along to pretty much any song. It sounds fun to me. I dont see any harm in learning how to drum.
For some, attempting to play bodhran is the musical manifestation of a primevil innate societal itch people have to to be part of a greater societal group. These people look at the Bodhran as a nice easy way of sitting with other musicians and playing the Music.
The fallacy is that this class of folks thinks the bodhran is easy to play and that, somehow, their banging away without the having exercised the diligence, discilipline, patience to properly learn any instument, makes them a productive part of the greater societal music group.
Damn I hated social psychology in shcool Remember all those 12 dollar words.......
Fun for you, not so much fun for someone who has to sit next to you...and five of your fellow drummers...trying to hear what tune is actually being played.
See if you can visit a variety of sessions. You'll find that the higher-quality ones have only one (well-played) drum, if that. They can very easily overwhelm the music.
People don't hate Bodhrans - people hate ignorance. Regrettably, the vast majority of the "Gee, that looks easy.." crowd gravitate towards bodhrans and guitars, creating havoc for people who play melody instruments at Irish sessions - not to mention the trouble they cause for skilled bodhran and guitar players.
A good backer, be they guitarist, drummer, or whatever, is a wonderful thing. A good backer is someone that has put in the hours to learn the difference between different styles of playing, different types of tunes. They listen, and they make playing easier for the melody instruments.
There is no harm in learning how to drum, but the key word here is "learning".
'Hey thats great!!
Can I have a go?
Now how do you do it?
Like this?
How am i doing it wrong, its completely the same as what you are doing!!
I hate this piece of s*** !!!
Take it back and i will stick to my own instrument thank you very much.'
The Bodhran, singular is a great thing when played well and in the right company. I agree with batlady that they can make playing easier for melody instruments, same as gutiar. A good established rythem is no bad thing. Keeps the tunes grounded and lets u improvise a bit more.. maybe thats not a good thing in my case but hey.. Dont be disuaded by Bodhran haters, tis a great way to get into the tunes, but long term youl probably want to play them.. I played Bodhran from age zero n didnt start playing whistle until I wuz 17 now 23.. Somtimes forget I even have a bodhran these days! then when u get it out , wire a cd on and give it a bash, tis great stuff..even better then when u can stop the cd n play along to the same tunes on another instrument..
Listen, the melody instruments provide the rhythm. Melody players often have a very specific feel in mind when they're playing a tune. That feel may include a variable amount of swing, drive, lift, and nyah. All of those bits will vary from tune to tune, even with tunes of the same type, and even within the course of a single tune... A strong melody player can can provide all of those things, in which other melody players can latch on to, to create a particular groove.
But if a bodhran player has a different rhythm in their playing, it's very difficult for the melody player to do anything but match what the bodhran is doing. Very few drummers seem to be able to play tastefully enough where they are supporting the rhythm that originates from the melody players. It seems that many drummers believe that they should be driving the rhythm, which is how many other styles of music (rock, country, jazz, etc) function. But that shouldn't be how it works in Irish trad, and so many a bodhran player has wrecked a session for the melody players.
Combine that with the fact that a lot of bodhran players took up the instrument because it seemed like an easy path into playing at sessions, and you have the foundation for the dislike of bodhrans in general.
For me, I love playing with a good bodhran player, and there are a few players around here that I really enjoy.
Was at an otherwise great session last night where bodhran beaters bashed randomly and insensitively throughout. Once in a while one of them played spoons randomly and insensitively instead.
So my answer to the OP is that while a single good bodhran player is an asset to any session, around here, insensitive clods predominate over good players. The clods are distracting as hell.
My wish for every session attendee is that they ask themselves the question "Am I adding to the quality of the session?" Too many answer yes, when the answer should be no. Last night a very talented visiting fiddle player was playing a new tune on her own, except for two bashers who didn't ask themselves whether drowning her out with random noise made things better or worse for everyone else. It's not just bodhran players. I remember a session where a famous visitor was giving us a few tunes, and a beginner tried (and failed) to pick up the tunes on the fly. The beginner did succeed perfectly in wrecking the chance for everyone to listen to someone who could really play.
My other pet peeve is folks who are going to play 3 sets all night taking seats away from those who can really add to the session. Last night a much recorded and widely respected local musician dropped in and sat in the back row, out of sight, and mostly out of hearing. No one thought to give up their seat, and he was too polite to ask them to move. Why doesn't it occur to those sitting up close that if they aren't playing, they are interfering with the quality of the session by blocking the sight lines and hearing of those who make the session fly instead of plod? Why doesn't it occur to them that they will learn more by listening than by playing?
Or, to put it another way flutefry, why is common sense so uncommon?
Ah well, more reason for an 'alpha' musician to take a stand. "You, come sit up here, make a seat for this guy." "You, stop noodling all over her tunes, we're trying to listen over here."
In lieu of common sense the iron hand of discipline will do just fine.
Pete (Reverend) got it!
Is this now a once per week topic?
flutefry, you can always offer your seat. I would.
I have been at large sessions, near the back, fortunate enough to be next to one of the best players' in the session.
Maybe your player liked the company. ;)
The Bodhran was never an issue at my local until somehow the word spread that this music is easy to play --I think the exact quote was "easy peasy" or some such phrase and then, low and behold, we now have lots of bodhran players! Ironic, isn't it?
I do like well played bodhran. I really like it. (I'm mainly a bouzouki player)
I hate off-beat bodhran.
That simple.
The problem is that many newcomers thing that beating the bodhran is simple and easy. The trick is that it's not. You need to be (or become) a musician first.
Here, in Paris, we have some your good players, able to playing wih swing, when the melodists do. This is rare enough to be mentionned... Of course, they don't come from scratch, but was educated by competent bodhran teachers...
I shall look for it on the wall of the Quiet Man Manu
I agree with you.
I played the bodhran for many years and was told I was very good even taught it at one of the Irish Festivals in Ireland one year but I gave up playing as I refused to be a basher and bash away with the other 5 bodhran owners who would all turn up to the sessions and play at the same time,
For a guy who used to spin Ministry discs (Rev) and a guy who used to skate to the Circle Jerks (SWFL) you two sure know a lot about Irish music - I tip my cap to your witty collective insights.
Random Notes, I had a seat even further from the action, so he wouldn't have thanked me for offering to change my bad seat for his mediocre one.....
I learned early give up my seat to people who I know, or who I learned after hearing them play are better than I am. This had a good side-effect, in that those people to whom I offered my seat, were more inclined to be helpful and supportive (including being supportive by saying things like "Hugh, can you check your tuning" or "Hugh, I think this one needs more practice before you play it with us again".
A couple of years ago I wandered into a pub in Ireland that was hosting a semi-closed session led by a whistle player. After a few minutes he noticed me standing by the bar with my fiddle, came over and asked me if I'd like to play, and then he said "and for God's sake sit yourself between me and that bloody bodhran player". I soon found out why - the b.b.p. was so loud that the leader couldn't hear himself or anyone else, and my main function apparently was to act as an acoustic barrier! Even that didn't work, for 10 minutes later the leader leaned across me and literally kicked the bodhran out of its owner's hands and "requested" the player to leave. Which he did, and the session became a normal session.
I do not hate Bodhran player. Some of my best friends (on here) are bodhran players. The fact that my 'spell check' gives an alternative spelling of Bodhran as Birdbrain has nothing to do with it either.....lol.
I'm coming to this discussion as a drummer, a two handed one who spent years learning the rudiments of drumming. In other words a real drummer who is as much at home playing 'Take 5' with a Jazz trio, or marching down the road playing 'Dinagh's Delight' with a Fife and Drum band. When I come across a Bodhran player who can do that, then I'll buy him or her a drink. Having said that, I have no objection to any decent Bodhran player who can swing along and enhance my box playing, as long as they keep in step and don't spend the session showing the customers how to hold the beater. Lastly, in order to involve the Bodhran and to hear what the player has to offer, I very often ask him or her to take a solo in a particular tune that I'm playing. Sometimes it works, but sadly many times it's just a blank stare and a.... Doh!!!!
hm...I have to admit that as a classically trained flute player, I did get myself a bodhran to be able to participate in sessions while I was learning tunes. I read various info on the web about playing them and although I know I have a good innate sense of rhythm, I do understand that to play the drum well is not a given. I remember reading somewhere that drummers, in general, should let their playing be inspired by the melody, and the rhythms and accents within it. So I try, in my bodhran playing, to be supportive of the melody's shape, and if I find a tune tricky to understand, I keep things really simple.
I have no interest in having my drumming front and centre, I love listening to tunes and being in the background! I don't seem to have received any death stares yet...
We have a guy in our city who can play bodhran and many other percussion instruments very well. When he turns up and plays the bodhran, or the bones if it suits the tunes, then I find he helps me to soar while playing the melody - an awesome thing when it happens. It's good to remind myself what a rare and precious thing he provides, and I feel sorry for those who haven't experienced something like that.
I just got my bodhran out and played Take 5..Easy, that'll be a schooner of new thank you Free Reed. My method is if you can hum it you can drum it.
Good morning llig, lovely day! How are the chooks?
Free Reed -
If your bodhran player looks at you funny when you ask them for a solo, it might be because they've got some taste. Drum solos are bad enough, but there is nothing more tedious than a bodhran solo - excepting possibly a didgeridoo solo. I'd expect even a bodhran player might be able to figure that out.
The first dozen or so posts on this subject seem to have it just about right.
I enjoyed Frutefly's remark about clods.Thanks to that remark we've got a new word - Clodhran.
Love the Bodhran players, depise the Clodhran players!
I have read, but not contributed to the recent threads on bodhran players, because I was concerned that my comments might not be taken seriously.
I'm going to have a go anyway.
I am a bodhran player ( I feel better for that - it must be similar to saying "I am an alcoholic" ).
I have been playing for almost 5 years and consider myself to be proficient enough to play with other instrumentalists without upsetting them but.......... the problem with the bodhran is that it is somewhat easy to get started and for that reason as soon the beginner can differentiate between a jig and a reel, he thinks that he is an expert.
I've been trying to understand why this is and have come to the conclusion that the majority of players learn by themselves in isolation and may never have heard the instrument played properly. They, therefore, have no yardstick to measure against. A fiddle player knows what he should sound like as we are exposed to the violin in all sorts of music.
Because some beginners have given the bodhran a bad name, I am very reluctant to walk into a pub carrying a bodhran for fear of abuse and this is sad. I really can play the thing!!
If any aspiring bodhran session players are reading this, please stick to a few rules.
If you have been playing for a few weeks and think you are good enough to join a session, you probably aren't.
Wait to be invited to play at a session - don’t just unpack your bodhran and jump in.
Listen to the music so that you can properly identify the parts (A, B, etc) before you join in.
In most situations only one bodhran player should contribute at a time so take your turn if others are there.
Remember that in Irish traditional music the bodhran should follow the melody players pace and rhythm and does not control as in other forms of music. A bodhran player complements the music and does not lead it.
If you can find one, join a bodhran teaching group and learn to play under instruction.
If everyone stuck to these rules there might be more respect shown.
I know because I have friends who tell me. Do you have any?
Having read the list of threads that you so kindly listed above, I can say with confidence that EVERYONE is more polite than you but then you know that.
What a truly insignificant sub standard person you must be. Does no-one moderate this site? That was my first contribution and probably my last.
Hi Curiad
Dont be dismayed at some of the comments you hear about bodhran's on this site. It takes all sorts.
Most musicians don't realise that whilst the bodhran may be the easiest instrument in the world to learn to play, it is probably one of the hardest to master. Perhaps only a piper would understand. Where you put the notes yesterday isn't necessarily where you will find them today. Fiddles, boxes and whistles have it easy by comparison, and is the main reason why you don't find many good bodhran players. But Curiad, take comfort from the fact that the bodhran is the ancient frame drum of the Islands of Britain and was traditionally a solo instrument until the parvenus turned up and joined in. Look up www.curiadydrwm.co.uk
On reflection I regret making the statement above about Mr Gill. I fear I have almost descended to his level but am re-assured that this may not be possible.
Thank you bodhranwisdom for making a sensible comment.
Curiad - you descended well below Michaels level (and on your first post too) - at least Michael has spent several years building up a reputation for curmudgeonliness with regard to certain issues, but you have waded straight in with personal slander (or is it libel?).
Heh, SWFL, it's about time for Buster Bodhran to show up, and give us the play by play account of the 'dead horse flogging team' vs. the 'dead goat flogging team'...
WTG, llig, you drove another bodhran player away! Now we're down to 593 of them. Whatever shall we do?
Listen, curiad, if you're too timid to post on this site because you're worried that you won't be taken seriously, you won't be posting much. I would think as a bodhran player, that you'd have a bit of a thicker skin than that... You play an instrument that is much maligned, you're either going to have to accept that fact, or quit playing, because you're not going to change anybody's mind about it. (Keep in mind that this is coming from a banjo player... another instrument that llig doesn't like...) FWIW, I think you stated your point well... But toughen up a bit. Don't take the bodhran bashing personally, and maybe you can learn some things from it...
"Most musicians don't realise that whilst the bodhran may be the easiest instrument in the world to learn to play, it is probably one of the hardest to master. Perhaps only a piper would understand. Where you put the notes yesterday isn't necessarily where you will find them today. Fiddles, boxes and whistles have it easy by comparison"............ ha, ha, ha ,ha etc, lol ...especially the last line
Thank you Reverend. I am truly humbled.
I too have a banjo (5 string G) but I am an infinitely better bodhran player. Just re-read your earlier comment and agree with most of what you say.
But to get back to the original question......
....or at least the next comment by our poster;
"Once you know the rhythms you can play along to any SONG..."
What we play is NOT songs, and to make this comment shows how little you yet know.
Sorry.
I do understand that is why you have to ask these questions, because you don't yet understand.
Do you think anyone who had only been playing the fiddle, the concertina, the pipes, for just three months, say, could make a meaningful contribution to a session ? Because the same thing applies to the bodhran.
When you can play one quietly, subtly, and with discretion, then you are ready to join a session.
Till then keep it at home.
Curiad, apologies for the rudeness of my last posts. But the bodhran is easier to play and master than any other traditional instrument - even the humble whistle, by quite a margin.
I am starting to get the faintest impression that bodhran's are not welcome at sessions why...? when a badly played banjo, fiddle or box is 10 x worse.
I have to agree with Guensey Pete (see my first post in this thread) - but it's not clear that the originator of the post that he has quoted is, in fact, a bodhran player. Those sort of statements just confirm people's anti bodhran feelings.
"...and this is Buster Bodhran here again folks, thanks for joinging us for the 9,345th thesession.org bodhran toss. It’s a beautiful day on the pitch, the teams have been battling all game long, it's been a fantastic match, and you should see the dent I’ve put in the Guinness kegs! [oh my liver]
On one side of the field we have the bodhran/discus throw, manned by melody players driven mad by incessant off-rhythm goat skin beating. They are hotly competing to see who can throw the bodhran the farthest Frisbee-style, and it's been a mighty battle, but once again perennial champion Llig 'The Goatchucker' Leahcim is clearly in the lead.
On the other end of the field, frantic bodhranistas scurry to and fro, desperately trying to catch the bodhrans before they satisfyingly smash into pieces on the ground. Points are awarded for catching, but many more points go the chuckers on the other side of the pitch for smashing.
Incidentally, I’ve found a few co-eds here lingering in the beer tent, and we’ve began a fascinating game where we do a shot of whiskey for a smashed bodhran, and drink a pint for a caught bodhran. I fear that if Llig’s turn comes around again I may beekum so drunck thet eye furget wha…wha…[burp] Heyyy thur, sweetee. Wass yer name again, lassie? Was that Bob? R wee still on? Cut ta commershal allreadee!!!”
'Most musicians don't realise that whilst the bodhran may be the easiest instrument in the world to learn to play, it is probably one of the hardest to master. Perhaps only a piper would understand.'
It's funny how many of the greatest uilleann pipers have chosen not to play with bodhránistas if they can help it. Who was it said 'Why would I want to be accompanied by the sound of a sack of spuds falling down the stairs?'. And, of course, one of Ireland's finest pipers recommended a marriage between the bodhrán and the penknife.
I suppose for posters here, carrying Trucks 'slippers' question to its most illogical conclusion, perhaps that inquiry was leading to a follow up whether posters wear any clothes at all while joining the the comraderie herein!
Floss,
you've got it wrong there...it's the other way round surely! "Oddly, Ireland's greatest bodhran players have chosen not to be accompanied by ...."
Well... I think the Bodhran Wisdom site linked above is actually a good idea.
You would be surprised (or maybe not!) at how many newbies (to Bodhran's) don't know the differences between the tunes. After all, the site is just trying to help, and the more advice and understanding of the rhythms that newbies get, then the less of the session-destroying incidents we're likely to encounter
I had a quick look at that "Bodhran Wisdom" site and (besides trying to contain my astonishment at the unbelievable irony bypass at the most ludicrous oxymoron I think I've ever heard) I couldn't find anything that anyone with a quarter of a brain couldn't work out for themselves in under 20 mins.
Ian Hislop, editor of Private Eye for those across the water, was asked, on Have I Got News For You, "Why do people take such an instant dislike to Peter Mandelson ?".
"Because it saves time." was his reply.
I suppose you could use a similar argument for our question.
I must confess I live in a two-bodhran household.
People who have been in horrible accidents get more attention from the other motorists, but that doesn't make me want to get into a collision................
Looking for consensus, I re-read this thread and while there seems not to be a general hate for bodhrans, there certainly is a dislike of people who play the thing badly. And there is also a general consensus that to play it well, you must know the music intimately.
So it beggers belief that anyone with love enough for the music would want to spend all that time in the study of it, and yet not be interested in wanting to play it.
Trucks describes in plainly enough: "Don't be disuaded by Bodhran haters, tis a great way to get into the tunes, but long term you'll probably want to play them."
Because there are many people who dabble at it, as opposed to taking the instrument seriously and becoming adept with it.
Bcause many who play the thing seem to think it can and should be used for everything, which, fortuneately or un-fortuneately, not all musicians agree with. I play the bodhran myself - just not all the time, and not when it is a square peg being jammed into a round hole.
Because the bodhran has become an easy and popular target.
By the way, I do not believe any of the right-thinking folk here "hate" the thiing, even the more vocal amongst us -
one does not have to hate something simply because one has no use for it, or sees it so often abused.
I have no use for rap singers but I do not hate them. I simply avoid them, and refuse to have them thrust upon me.
Actually Rook, I was thinking posting something about not actually hating it, but simply avoiding it. But I thought that might soften my hard earned image too much, so I refrained.
'Rhythm sections should always follow the melody.'
So, so wrong! In much of jazz, reggae and highlife, for example, it's a case of the rhythm section establishing and following the groove. Whatever happens on top of that can sometimes be peripheral.
Llig:
I try not to name names when posting, as I have often suffered from "foot-in-mouth" disease, here and elsewhere,
BUT
I must confess:
I very nearly named you in the above, specifically, as one of the bodhran-critics who fell under that heading , that being:
Not mean-spirited or narrow, just NOT interested.
And fear not, Sir -
(not that you would)
I am sure your carefully cultivated image has suffered not at all.
The subsidiary discussion about rhythm sections always following the melody is in danger of falling into confusion by not considering the fundamental difference between metre and rhythm. You can lay down a steady metrical beat - as would be required for dancing, for example - but in addition to that you can, and perhaps should, have within the beat a rhythm that follows the tune.
"If everyone that played a bodhran was a drummer there would be no problem."
I can understand that statement and agree with it, but I have been to MANY sessions without bodhran players with really, really, really bad stringed, wind and other instrument players that somehow get a total pass on the same type of issue. Are they "musicians"? Because they are trying a lead instrument tentatively, but read sheet music, somehow they are better.
There is probably a general consensus that a decent bodhran player is better to have at your session than some god awful out of tune out of time string scraper. But it's kind of like a rock and a hard place. However, the awful string player might be just new to it and might get better. At least they are trying to play the tune and there's potential.
OK, so with most god awful out of tune out of time string scrapers, they ain't gonner get any better. But if this is the case you can simply ask them to stop playing.
But the incesent pip popperty thump thump is never in a billion years gonna be a tune. Even at its very best all it can ever do is make it harder to hear the tune.
This is a specific distinction. There is no hypocracy.
Michael
Suggesting that people are 'better' than bodhran players cause the read music only works as arguement if everyone can read music.
Many of us cannot.
Can I add a slight disention on the drummer issue?
Percussionists, no matter how good, that are precussionists first and not really trad musicians can really badly damamge a session. We've suffered this over a prolonged period through a talented percussionist, and very nice individual, that brought all his drumming skills, but no understanding of how to percuss (perscuss?) to irsih-music.
It was disastrous. It is more importnat to be familiar with the musical ideom that you are attempting to play than it is to be superb at your own instrument.
Understanding of, and feel for the music is vastly more important than technical skill on an instrument. Not just for percussion, but for all types of instrument. Drums and strums come out as worse than average candidates in our music as so many of the individual players come from other more dominant traditions e.g. rock, blues etc and think they can just garft their previously aquired skills on to another musical form. Whilst you get the odd classical violinist or fluatist doing something similar it is usually less destructive (and they tend to get bored and not come back every week).
- chris (not to knock classical types for the sake of it, some of the best fiddlers I know can do classical, but they realise that trad and classical are different genres of music with different requirements)
Hi Llig. fair cop about the notations web page, should have rewritten that years ago. Only so many hours in a day.
I make no defense of the rhythm dawk who turns up at a session and ruins a carefully prepared afternoon. Kick them out, tar and feather them, use their bodhran as a frisbe, all of that and more. But that is to miss the point of the discussion. As someone has already said 'you cant hate an instrument because of the way you've heard it played'.
In the right hands the bodhran brings far more to a session than just a complementary monotone rhythm. Given a chance it will offer subtle sub harmonies, low bass, change key as the tune changes, grace note the parts in a tune, and often explain a part of a tune that otherwise might be missed. The art of the bodhran player is to do all this at the same time without anybody noticing. As Mick M'Goldrick once said, 'The thing about a good bodhran player is that you only notice them when they're not there'.
ha ha ha ... "explain a part of a tune that otherwise might be missed." ha ha ha ha. That's the biggest pile of idiotic nonsense I think I've ever read. You'll have to do a lot better that mate if you're to earn your daft oxymoron of a moniker.
And I've heard that Michael M'Goldrick thing before and I agree with it. It chimes in very nicely with what I've been saying for years. That the bodhran at it's very very best can only ever hope to entertain the status of irrelevance.
Hi Llig
Thank you for your kind words, but I'm not sure I can live up to them.
So it seems that the bodhran will always be an instrument you don't understand.
Perhaps we should end it there?
I listened to the black Planxty LP the other day. I realised that I can play all of the tunes on it, on the mandolin. Obviously I can also play them on a mouth organ, if I know what something goes like I can play it on a mouth organ.
However, I never progressed on the Mandolin, as i only learn airs on it. Last month I suddenly played "The Silver Spear" on it, so I imagine if I practised I could learn more.
However for "tunes" I am content to play the bodhran, so obviously not everyone becomes enraptured with a need to play melody.
It could be an age thing with me as my early influences, aged 7 to 10 would have been "Folk Groups" like the McPeakes and The Dubliners who played tunes, but did loads of songs.
Then The Chieftains arrived, with just tunes, but by then I was smitten as a "folkie".
So either I am
A: Lazy
B: Not a trad fan
C: Different.
I hope it is C because most people are different, even Mr Llig.
Yeah, C for sure. But certainly A also. And if you say you are "content" to "play" the tunes on the bodhran and not even realise that you are not actually "playing" them, then it's for certain you are not a fan of the tunes at all.
"If everyone who played the bodhran was a drummer, there'd be no problem"
That is an interesting comment. I've sat in sessions with skilled drummers or percussionists joining in, and the good ones tend to play with precision and restraint. They might not be necessary or authentic but the combined sound is not altogether bad. Further more, they can play percussion on a variety of objects and don't need an "authentic" goatskin drum like wot you see on the folk album covers.
Outside of web forums, the main objection people seem to have to bodhrans at sessions is not technical or ideological - it's just volume and clarity. It often muddies the sound to the point of unintelligibility and if you're sat next to one, you can't hear yourself play, let alone anyone else. From a distance, you can discern no melody in a session with too much drum and strum, just a dull boompety-boomp noise
Bren, my objection is neither technical or ideological - it's just volume and clarity.
Gran, of course B Bliss is allowed to be a fan of accompaniment and apply his enthusiasm for the bodhran in sessions where accompaniment is welcomed. Welcomed by punters who are not fans of the tunes ... for whom the dull boompety-boomp noise is what they like.
Sorry mate, hands up, I miss quoted. Sorry. I shouldn't jump on a phrase without reading properly.
However ... to your ideal world:
It's an interesting juxtaposition of motive.
I am more than happy being just another fiddle player. My interest is in the tunes, the interpretation of the tunes, the sharing of them. And my interest is in others' interest in the tunes, their interpretations and sharing of them. Just like all my other tune playing chums. We're all just tune players. This is our motivation. Not to contribute, but to share.
It's an interesting examination of what a really good session is or could be. Is it a group of like minded chums who come to contribute to the session? Or is it a group of like minded chums who come to share what they have?
I like to think that, at its best, the tunes get plucked from the ether and are shared by the players playing them for that short transient moment of beauty before fading back to the ether of the tune players' subconsciouses.
And I just feel that the motivation to contribute, to enhance, to somehow make better, just kind of misses the simple act of sharing.
It's like Jesus making such big scene out of merely contributing a measly few loaves and fishes to five thousand people who are already sharing what they brought with them.
One interpretation of that story is that some people need to be encouraged, motivated even, to share what they have. Which would give a certain irony to llig bringing it up whilst encouraging a sharing approach.
The difference between sharing and contributing is subtle, but important I think. Sharing is selfless. Contributing comes from the self. It's about having the arrogance to believe that what you yourself is offereng has worth.
In this instance it's about the difference between tune players sharing tunes and someone with a drum having the arrogance to asume that his contribution is going to enhance the tunes.
Subtle differences indeed llig, and it's an interesting thought. However I think the use of the word arrogant is coming it a bit strong to use about someone offering up a contribution that's not the tune. Granted, if that particular contribution is an unwanted gift then there is no point in forcing it upon anyone. Better to take the gift where it would be happily accepted, and such sessions do exist.
david, some may well feel the drum could contribute to the shared communal endeavour. But no one is ever gonna say to a bodhran player. "good tune".
Gran, I'm not using the word arrogant to only describe someone offering up a contribution that's not the tune. I've met many tune players who offer up tunes with arrogance. Unfortunately it's all to common. However, at best, we play to share tunes. A tune is there and we share in the playing of it. The bodhran does not share in the playing of the tune. It's as straight forward as that.
What if you offer to share your musical talents and abilities because you believe that you can contribute to the local session but not all of the musicians at the local session agree with this idea?
Then should I stop sharing my musical talents and abilities with the other musicians at the local sessions because I am unable to contribute?
I offered to share and they took me up on my offer to share. Once I began participating regularly, I discovered, to my surprise, that I was actually able to contribute something to the local sessions.
Yes, indeed. Your memory is correct. The other musicians at the local sessions seemed to think that a piano was needed to "fill out the sound". Or, at least, that was what they told me when I asked whether or not I could participate in the sessions.
Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
I keep seeing all this stuff about how a lot of people dont like bodhrans...I think they sound really nice and dont understand where all the drama is coming from.
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by Seamus O'Reilly
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
If everyone who played the bodhran was a drummer, there'd be no problem.
However, people who don't know anything about drumming always try to play them. In fact, the vast majority of people at sessions playing bodhrans are not drummers in the first place, which causes all the bad bias against them on here and in real life.
Why do non-drummers decide that playing a drum would be the easiest way for them to participate in a session?
That is the $64 million question.
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Ok...but maybe because its an easy instrument to learn?? Once you know the rhythms you can play along to pretty much any song. It sounds fun to me. I dont see any harm in learning how to drum.
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by Seamus O'Reilly
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
1) 'Ok...but maybe because its an easy instrument to learn??'
It's not.
2) 'Once you know the rhythms you can play along to pretty much any song.'
You can't.
3) 'It sounds fun to me.'
It isn't.
4) ' I dont see any harm in learning how to drum.'
You're probably still looking for WoMD.
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by MacCruiskeen
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
For some, attempting to play bodhran is the musical manifestation of a primevil innate societal itch people have to to be part of a greater societal group. These people look at the Bodhran as a nice easy way of sitting with other musicians and playing the Music.
The fallacy is that this class of folks thinks the bodhran is easy to play and that, somehow, their banging away without the having exercised the diligence, discilipline, patience to properly learn any instument, makes them a productive part of the greater societal music group.
Damn I hated social psychology in shcool Remember all those 12 dollar words.......
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Fun for you, not so much fun for someone who has to sit next to you...and five of your fellow drummers...trying to hear what tune is actually being played.
See if you can visit a variety of sessions. You'll find that the higher-quality ones have only one (well-played) drum, if that. They can very easily overwhelm the music.
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by kennedy
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
People don't hate Bodhrans - people hate ignorance. Regrettably, the vast majority of the "Gee, that looks easy.." crowd gravitate towards bodhrans and guitars, creating havoc for people who play melody instruments at Irish sessions - not to mention the trouble they cause for skilled bodhran and guitar players.
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
A good backer, be they guitarist, drummer, or whatever, is a wonderful thing. A good backer is someone that has put in the hours to learn the difference between different styles of playing, different types of tunes. They listen, and they make playing easier for the melody instruments.
There is no harm in learning how to drum, but the key word here is "learning".
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by Michele Sims
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Ready for another 70 posts...
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by fedorastain
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Hate is a strong word, but as a mental state it's super trendy right now, with self-pity a close second for that coveted top spot.
Keep a sharp eye out for smugness, though, but not until the Spring 2010 emotive ratings sweeps period.
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by NEW Pure Drop® Ear Canal Oil
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Listen all . . . . I will tell you what I think.
People say:
'Hey thats great!!
Can I have a go?
Now how do you do it?
Like this?
How am i doing it wrong, its completely the same as what you are doing!!
I hate this piece of s*** !!!
Take it back and i will stick to my own instrument thank you very much.'
Just my opinion, and past experiences.
I love the Bodhran, to let ye all know!!
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by Power27
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
The Bodhran, singular is a great thing when played well and in the right company. I agree with batlady that they can make playing easier for melody instruments, same as gutiar. A good established rythem is no bad thing. Keeps the tunes grounded and lets u improvise a bit more.. maybe thats not a good thing in my case but hey.. Dont be disuaded by Bodhran haters, tis a great way to get into the tunes, but long term youl probably want to play them.. I played Bodhran from age zero n didnt start playing whistle until I wuz 17 now 23.. Somtimes forget I even have a bodhran these days! then when u get it out , wire a cd on and give it a bash, tis great stuff..even better then when u can stop the cd n play along to the same tunes on another instrument..
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Try playing a melody instrument for about 10 years and get back to us on what you've learned...
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by Seosamh Ui Sinan
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Sure, learn to drum, just don't do it at a session where there are melody players trying to play tunes.
...unless you're trying to add to bodhran-hate, in which case, carry on then!
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Listen, the melody instruments provide the rhythm. Melody players often have a very specific feel in mind when they're playing a tune. That feel may include a variable amount of swing, drive, lift, and nyah. All of those bits will vary from tune to tune, even with tunes of the same type, and even within the course of a single tune... A strong melody player can can provide all of those things, in which other melody players can latch on to, to create a particular groove.
But if a bodhran player has a different rhythm in their playing, it's very difficult for the melody player to do anything but match what the bodhran is doing. Very few drummers seem to be able to play tastefully enough where they are supporting the rhythm that originates from the melody players. It seems that many drummers believe that they should be driving the rhythm, which is how many other styles of music (rock, country, jazz, etc) function. But that shouldn't be how it works in Irish trad, and so many a bodhran player has wrecked a session for the melody players.
Combine that with the fact that a lot of bodhran players took up the instrument because it seemed like an easy path into playing at sessions, and you have the foundation for the dislike of bodhrans in general.
For me, I love playing with a good bodhran player, and there are a few players around here that I really enjoy.
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by Reverend
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Was at an otherwise great session last night where bodhran beaters bashed randomly and insensitively throughout. Once in a while one of them played spoons randomly and insensitively instead.
So my answer to the OP is that while a single good bodhran player is an asset to any session, around here, insensitive clods predominate over good players. The clods are distracting as hell.
My wish for every session attendee is that they ask themselves the question "Am I adding to the quality of the session?" Too many answer yes, when the answer should be no. Last night a very talented visiting fiddle player was playing a new tune on her own, except for two bashers who didn't ask themselves whether drowning her out with random noise made things better or worse for everyone else. It's not just bodhran players. I remember a session where a famous visitor was giving us a few tunes, and a beginner tried (and failed) to pick up the tunes on the fly. The beginner did succeed perfectly in wrecking the chance for everyone to listen to someone who could really play.
My other pet peeve is folks who are going to play 3 sets all night taking seats away from those who can really add to the session. Last night a much recorded and widely respected local musician dropped in and sat in the back row, out of sight, and mostly out of hearing. No one thought to give up their seat, and he was too polite to ask them to move. Why doesn't it occur to those sitting up close that if they aren't playing, they are interfering with the quality of the session by blocking the sight lines and hearing of those who make the session fly instead of plod? Why doesn't it occur to them that they will learn more by listening than by playing?
Hugh
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by flutefry
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Or, to put it another way flutefry, why is common sense so uncommon?
Ah well, more reason for an 'alpha' musician to take a stand. "You, come sit up here, make a seat for this guy." "You, stop noodling all over her tunes, we're trying to listen over here."
In lieu of common sense the iron hand of discipline will do just fine.
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Pete (Reverend) got it!
Is this now a once per week topic?
flutefry, you can always offer your seat. I would.
I have been at large sessions, near the back, fortunate enough to be next to one of the best players' in the session.
Maybe your player liked the company. ;)
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
People don't hate bodhrans; they just hate poor bodhran playing.
I tell the kids in my school that the drums are the easiest instrument to play poorly and one of the most difficult to play well.
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
The Bodhran was never an issue at my local until somehow the word spread that this music is easy to play --I think the exact quote was "easy peasy" or some such phrase and then, low and behold, we now have lots of bodhran players! Ironic, isn't it?
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by leoj
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
I do like well played bodhran. I really like it. (I'm mainly a bouzouki player)
I hate off-beat bodhran.
That simple.
The problem is that many newcomers thing that beating the bodhran is simple and easy. The trick is that it's not. You need to be (or become) a musician first.
Here, in Paris, we have some your good players, able to playing wih swing, when the melodists do. This is rare enough to be mentionned... Of course, they don't come from scratch, but was educated by competent bodhran teachers...
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by Emmanuel Delahaye
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
<<the drums are the easiest instrument to play poorly and one of the most difficult to play well>>
To be engraved in golden letters at any place where sessions stand...
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by Emmanuel Delahaye
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
r stand / hold
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by Emmanuel Delahaye
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
I shall look for it on the wall of the Quiet Man
Manu
I agree with you.
I played the bodhran for many years and was told I was very good even taught it at one of the Irish Festivals in Ireland one year but I gave up playing as I refused to be a basher and bash away with the other 5 bodhran owners who would all turn up to the sessions and play at the same time,
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Just FYI, Reverend and I are the 'dead horse flogging team' on this thread. We're giving Llig a day off.
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
For a guy who used to spin Ministry discs (Rev) and a guy who used to skate to the Circle Jerks (SWFL) you two sure know a lot about Irish music - I tip my cap to your witty collective insights.
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Random Notes, I had a seat even further from the action, so he wouldn't have thanked me for offering to change my bad seat for his mediocre one.....
I learned early give up my seat to people who I know, or who I learned after hearing them play are better than I am. This had a good side-effect, in that those people to whom I offered my seat, were more inclined to be helpful and supportive (including being supportive by saying things like "Hugh, can you check your tuning" or "Hugh, I think this one needs more practice before you play it with us again".
Hugh
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by flutefry
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Never realised just how special I really am.
Thank you all.
# Posted on June 9th 2009 by bodhran bliss
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
A couple of years ago I wandered into a pub in Ireland that was hosting a semi-closed session led by a whistle player. After a few minutes he noticed me standing by the bar with my fiddle, came over and asked me if I'd like to play, and then he said "and for God's sake sit yourself between me and that bloody bodhran player". I soon found out why - the b.b.p. was so loud that the leader couldn't hear himself or anyone else, and my main function apparently was to act as an acoustic barrier! Even that didn't work, for 10 minutes later the leader leaned across me and literally kicked the bodhran out of its owner's hands and "requested" the player to leave. Which he did, and the session became a normal session.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
I do not hate Bodhran player. Some of my best friends (on here) are bodhran players. The fact that my 'spell check' gives an alternative spelling of Bodhran as Birdbrain has nothing to do with it either.....lol.
I'm coming to this discussion as a drummer, a two handed one who spent years learning the rudiments of drumming. In other words a real drummer who is as much at home playing 'Take 5' with a Jazz trio, or marching down the road playing 'Dinagh's Delight' with a Fife and Drum band. When I come across a Bodhran player who can do that, then I'll buy him or her a drink. Having said that, I have no objection to any decent Bodhran player who can swing along and enhance my box playing, as long as they keep in step and don't spend the session showing the customers how to hold the beater. Lastly, in order to involve the Bodhran and to hear what the player has to offer, I very often ask him or her to take a solo in a particular tune that I'm playing. Sometimes it works, but sadly many times it's just a blank stare and a.... Doh!!!!
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by Free Reed
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
hm...I have to admit that as a classically trained flute player, I did get myself a bodhran to be able to participate in sessions while I was learning tunes. I read various info on the web about playing them and although I know I have a good innate sense of rhythm, I do understand that to play the drum well is not a given. I remember reading somewhere that drummers, in general, should let their playing be inspired by the melody, and the rhythms and accents within it. So I try, in my bodhran playing, to be supportive of the melody's shape, and if I find a tune tricky to understand, I keep things really simple.
I have no interest in having my drumming front and centre, I love listening to tunes and being in the background! I don't seem to have received any death stares yet...
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by LindenGreatwood
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
We have a guy in our city who can play bodhran and many other percussion instruments very well. When he turns up and plays the bodhran, or the bones if it suits the tunes, then I find he helps me to soar while playing the melody - an awesome thing when it happens. It's good to remind myself what a rare and precious thing he provides, and I feel sorry for those who haven't experienced something like that.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by Bredna
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Does the fact that an bodhránaí is spawn of the great serpent and inimical to the children of Adam have nothing to do with it?
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by fidkid
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Cue the angry villagers with torches and pitchforks held high.........
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by AlBrown
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Oh what a beautiful morning, oh what a beautiful
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by mcknowall
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
I just got my bodhran out and played Take 5..Easy, that'll be a schooner of new thank you Free Reed. My method is if you can hum it you can drum it.
Good morning llig, lovely day! How are the chooks?
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by mcknowall
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Weird, mcknowall -- are you watching Oklahoma! on TCM right now, too?
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by fidkid
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Ah. Prob not.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by fidkid
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
mcknowall isn't weird, he's just thick-skinned.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
...that's when he's not jumping out of his skin that is...
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
For all the reasons stated above............... And a few best left unstated in public.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by Solidmahog
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Free Reed -
If your bodhran player looks at you funny when you ask them for a solo, it might be because they've got some taste. Drum solos are bad enough, but there is nothing more tedious than a bodhran solo - excepting possibly a didgeridoo solo. I'd expect even a bodhran player might be able to figure that out.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Because a lot of people can hit them,but very few can play them.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by dafydd
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
it's all a bit hit and miss isn't it.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
The first dozen or so posts on this subject seem to have it just about right.
I enjoyed Frutefly's remark about clods.Thanks to that remark we've got a new word - Clodhran.
Love the Bodhran players, depise the Clodhran players!
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by Gran Cassa
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/9423
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by ...
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Michael, your ability to search for particular and obscure discussions amazes me.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
I can only guess that Michael has come up with so many things to say all at once, that he's blown his cerebral cortex.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by showaddydadito
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/9446
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/9398
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/11873
http://w.ww.thesession.org/discussions/display/21511
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/12924
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/13342
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/21602
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by ...
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
I have read, but not contributed to the recent threads on bodhran players, because I was concerned that my comments might not be taken seriously.
I'm going to have a go anyway.
I am a bodhran player ( I feel better for that - it must be similar to saying "I am an alcoholic" ).
I have been playing for almost 5 years and consider myself to be proficient enough to play with other instrumentalists without upsetting them but.......... the problem with the bodhran is that it is somewhat easy to get started and for that reason as soon the beginner can differentiate between a jig and a reel, he thinks that he is an expert.
I've been trying to understand why this is and have come to the conclusion that the majority of players learn by themselves in isolation and may never have heard the instrument played properly. They, therefore, have no yardstick to measure against. A fiddle player knows what he should sound like as we are exposed to the violin in all sorts of music.
Because some beginners have given the bodhran a bad name, I am very reluctant to walk into a pub carrying a bodhran for fear of abuse and this is sad. I really can play the thing!!
If any aspiring bodhran session players are reading this, please stick to a few rules.
If you have been playing for a few weeks and think you are good enough to join a session, you probably aren't.
Wait to be invited to play at a session - don’t just unpack your bodhran and jump in.
Listen to the music so that you can properly identify the parts (A, B, etc) before you join in.
In most situations only one bodhran player should contribute at a time so take your turn if others are there.
Remember that in Irish traditional music the bodhran should follow the melody players pace and rhythm and does not control as in other forms of music. A bodhran player complements the music and does not lead it.
If you can find one, join a bodhran teaching group and learn to play under instruction.
If everyone stuck to these rules there might be more respect shown.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by curiad
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
"play with other instrumentalists without upsetting them"?
How do you know? Most people are more polite than me.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by ...
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
I know because I have friends who tell me. Do you have any?
Having read the list of threads that you so kindly listed above, I can say with confidence that EVERYONE is more polite than you but then you know that.
What a truly insignificant sub standard person you must be. Does no-one moderate this site? That was my first contribution and probably my last.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by curiad
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Hi Curiad
Dont be dismayed at some of the comments you hear about bodhran's on this site. It takes all sorts.
Most musicians don't realise that whilst the bodhran may be the easiest instrument in the world to learn to play, it is probably one of the hardest to master. Perhaps only a piper would understand. Where you put the notes yesterday isn't necessarily where you will find them today. Fiddles, boxes and whistles have it easy by comparison, and is the main reason why you don't find many good bodhran players. But Curiad, take comfort from the fact that the bodhran is the ancient frame drum of the Islands of Britain and was traditionally a solo instrument until the parvenus turned up and joined in. Look up www.curiadydrwm.co.uk
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by curiadydrwm
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Aw Llig, we were trying to give you the day off! The man is tireless, I tell ya.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
On reflection I regret making the statement above about Mr Gill. I fear I have almost descended to his level but am re-assured that this may not be possible.
Thank you bodhranwisdom for making a sensible comment.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by curiad
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Curiad - you descended well below Michaels level (and on your first post too) - at least Michael has spent several years building up a reputation for curmudgeonliness with regard to certain issues, but you have waded straight in with personal slander (or is it libel?).
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by showaddydadito
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Heh, SWFL, it's about time for Buster Bodhran to show up, and give us the play by play account of the 'dead horse flogging team' vs. the 'dead goat flogging team'...
WTG, llig, you drove another bodhran player away! Now we're down to 593 of them. Whatever shall we do?
Listen, curiad, if you're too timid to post on this site because you're worried that you won't be taken seriously, you won't be posting much. I would think as a bodhran player, that you'd have a bit of a thicker skin than that... You play an instrument that is much maligned, you're either going to have to accept that fact, or quit playing, because you're not going to change anybody's mind about it. (Keep in mind that this is coming from a banjo player... another instrument that llig doesn't like...) FWIW, I think you stated your point well... But toughen up a bit. Don't take the bodhran bashing personally, and maybe you can learn some things from it...
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by Reverend
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
But I thought that was where the sun doesn't shine?
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
"Most musicians don't realise that whilst the bodhran may be the easiest instrument in the world to learn to play, it is probably one of the hardest to master. Perhaps only a piper would understand. Where you put the notes yesterday isn't necessarily where you will find them today. Fiddles, boxes and whistles have it easy by comparison"............ ha, ha, ha ,ha etc, lol ...especially the last line
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by bogman
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Unfortunately that mad attitude is half the problem with (most) bodhran players.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by bogman
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Thank you Reverend. I am truly humbled.
I too have a banjo (5 string G) but I am an infinitely better bodhran player. Just re-read your earlier comment and agree with most of what you say.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by curiad
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
But to get back to the original question......
....or at least the next comment by our poster;
"Once you know the rhythms you can play along to any SONG..."
What we play is NOT songs, and to make this comment shows how little you yet know.
Sorry.
I do understand that is why you have to ask these questions, because you don't yet understand.
Do you think anyone who had only been playing the fiddle, the concertina, the pipes, for just three months, say, could make a meaningful contribution to a session ? Because the same thing applies to the bodhran.
When you can play one quietly, subtly, and with discretion, then you are ready to join a session.
Till then keep it at home.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Curiad, apologies for the rudeness of my last posts. But the bodhran is easier to play and master than any other traditional instrument - even the humble whistle, by quite a margin.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by bogman
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
I think we need a new thread about slippers for farts!
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
I am starting to get the faintest impression that bodhran's are not welcome at sessions why...? when a badly played banjo, fiddle or box is 10 x worse.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by weebag
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Is that a jig or a reel? Do you have the ABC?
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by greg sheils
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
I have to agree with Guensey Pete (see my first post in this thread) - but it's not clear that the originator of the post that he has quoted is, in fact, a bodhran player. Those sort of statements just confirm people's anti bodhran feelings.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by curiad
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
"...and this is Buster Bodhran here again folks, thanks for joinging us for the 9,345th thesession.org bodhran toss. It’s a beautiful day on the pitch, the teams have been battling all game long, it's been a fantastic match, and you should see the dent I’ve put in the Guinness kegs! [oh my liver]
On one side of the field we have the bodhran/discus throw, manned by melody players driven mad by incessant off-rhythm goat skin beating. They are hotly competing to see who can throw the bodhran the farthest Frisbee-style, and it's been a mighty battle, but once again perennial champion Llig 'The Goatchucker' Leahcim is clearly in the lead.
On the other end of the field, frantic bodhranistas scurry to and fro, desperately trying to catch the bodhrans before they satisfyingly smash into pieces on the ground. Points are awarded for catching, but many more points go the chuckers on the other side of the pitch for smashing.
Incidentally, I’ve found a few co-eds here lingering in the beer tent, and we’ve began a fascinating game where we do a shot of whiskey for a smashed bodhran, and drink a pint for a caught bodhran. I fear that if Llig’s turn comes around again I may beekum so drunck thet eye furget wha…wha…[burp] Heyyy thur, sweetee. Wass yer name again, lassie? Was that Bob? R wee still on? Cut ta commershal allreadee!!!”
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
"Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?"
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by skin&bow
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
'Most musicians don't realise that whilst the bodhran may be the easiest instrument in the world to learn to play, it is probably one of the hardest to master. Perhaps only a piper would understand.'
It's funny how many of the greatest uilleann pipers have chosen not to play with bodhránistas if they can help it. Who was it said 'Why would I want to be accompanied by the sound of a sack of spuds falling down the stairs?'. And, of course, one of Ireland's finest pipers recommended a marriage between the bodhrán and the penknife.
Where are the 'Islands of Britain', by the way?
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by MacCruiskeen
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
I suppose for posters here, carrying Trucks 'slippers' question to its most illogical conclusion, perhaps that inquiry was leading to a follow up whether posters wear any clothes at all while joining the the comraderie herein!
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Floss,
you've got it wrong there...it's the other way round surely! "Oddly, Ireland's greatest bodhran players have chosen not to be accompanied by ...."
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by skin&bow
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Reverend: 'Bodhran players need a thicker skin.'
Nice one! Too true, though!
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by Rob
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Because that's the one the french, dutch and german lovely girls admire the most.
It's not fair!!!!
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by Dawros Frog
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
'Lovely girls'? Ah, that would be 'Rock-a-Hula Ted. How about a lovely horse instead? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzYzVMcgWhg
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by MacCruiskeen
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
apparently mtodd dislikes bodhrans because they make a bit of a buzzing noise...
And Buster, save some for the banjo players (referring to both the beer AND the co-eds...)
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by Reverend
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
For a hoot have a look at this - http://www.bodhranwisdom.co.uk/Pages/Musical%20Rhythms.html - the bodhranwisdom site.
I really do despair.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by MacCruiskeen
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
curiad tried to set out some ground rules for bodhran players. It's not good enough. Sigh, yet more session etiquette.
But if you must make rules, they should be for everyone. And you only need two:
1. Wait to be invited to play - don’t just unpack your instrument and jump in.
2. If someone is making a noise that's is upsetting you, politely ask them to stop playing.
I'm sick of people complaining that they are having their sessions ruined.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by ...
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Well... I think the Bodhran Wisdom site linked above is actually a good idea.
You would be surprised (or maybe not!) at how many newbies (to Bodhran's) don't know the differences between the tunes. After all, the site is just trying to help, and the more advice and understanding of the rhythms that newbies get, then the less of the session-destroying incidents we're likely to encounter
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by andy69
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
70 posts later....
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by fedorastain
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
I had a quick look at that "Bodhran Wisdom" site and (besides trying to contain my astonishment at the unbelievable irony bypass at the most ludicrous oxymoron I think I've ever heard) I couldn't find anything that anyone with a quarter of a brain couldn't work out for themselves in under 20 mins.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by ...
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Mind you the truth, if you can handle the truth, is simple.
Punters love bodhrans, and melody players get insanely jealous at the attention bodhran players attract, and so they hate bodhrans.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by bodhran bliss
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
So if it's attention you want, play the bodhran.
Or if you want to play tunes, play tunes
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by ...
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Or does Bodhran Bliss have Bodhran Wisdom?
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by ...
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Do they?
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by balledfan
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Ian Hislop, editor of Private Eye for those across the water, was asked, on Have I Got News For You, "Why do people take such an instant dislike to Peter Mandelson ?".
"Because it saves time." was his reply.
I suppose you could use a similar argument for our question.
I must confess I live in a two-bodhran household.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Mr. Bliss has a point, look at ol' Buster Bodhran up there. He can't even play one and the chicks flock to him. Must be the last name.
# Posted on June 10th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
People who have been in horrible accidents get more attention from the other motorists, but that doesn't make me want to get into a collision................
# Posted on June 11th 2009 by AlBrown
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Looking for consensus, I re-read this thread and while there seems not to be a general hate for bodhrans, there certainly is a dislike of people who play the thing badly. And there is also a general consensus that to play it well, you must know the music intimately.
So it beggers belief that anyone with love enough for the music would want to spend all that time in the study of it, and yet not be interested in wanting to play it.
Trucks describes in plainly enough: "Don't be disuaded by Bodhran haters, tis a great way to get into the tunes, but long term you'll probably want to play them."
# Posted on June 11th 2009 by ...
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Get some of those Viagra eye drops llig, and have a long hard look at yerself!
# Posted on June 11th 2009 by mcknowall
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
It's worth noting that the above fella makes the things for money. And it's worth quoting from the above fella's website:
Q. How do I know if I’m good enough to play in a session?
A. You are!, a session is a social event and a learning experience.
I'm glad to see, from reading the posts here, that that sentiment is generally frowned upon
# Posted on June 11th 2009 by ...
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Raroes Rancheros....
# Posted on June 11th 2009 by fedorastain
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
"Q. How do I know if I’m good enough to play in a session?
A. You are!, a session is a social event and a learning experience."
Perfect way to keep everyone who can play a decent tune at home in the house.
# Posted on June 11th 2009 by bogman
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
I will rant:
Why?
Because there are many people who dabble at it, as opposed to taking the instrument seriously and becoming adept with it.
Bcause many who play the thing seem to think it can and should be used for everything, which, fortuneately or un-fortuneately, not all musicians agree with. I play the bodhran myself - just not all the time, and not when it is a square peg being jammed into a round hole.
Because the bodhran has become an easy and popular target.
By the way, I do not believe any of the right-thinking folk here "hate" the thiing, even the more vocal amongst us -
one does not have to hate something simply because one has no use for it, or sees it so often abused.
I have no use for rap singers but I do not hate them. I simply avoid them, and refuse to have them thrust upon me.
Rant over.
# Posted on June 11th 2009 by Piece
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Actually Rook, I was thinking posting something about not actually hating it, but simply avoiding it. But I thought that might soften my hard earned image too much, so I refrained.
# Posted on June 11th 2009 by ...
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
That's not an image llig, it's a mirage
# Posted on June 11th 2009 by mcknowall
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Rhythm sections should always follow the melody. Even in rock. That's one piece of classical training I feel can translate into any genre.
(I feel like I've been AWOL here. And now I'm leaving for Maine. I need a laptop. Or a "non-work" computer!)
# Posted on June 11th 2009 by Fiddlechick7
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
'Rhythm sections should always follow the melody.'
So, so wrong! In much of jazz, reggae and highlife, for example, it's a case of the rhythm section establishing and following the groove. Whatever happens on top of that can sometimes be peripheral.
# Posted on June 11th 2009 by MacCruiskeen
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Llig:
I try not to name names when posting, as I have often suffered from "foot-in-mouth" disease, here and elsewhere,
BUT
I must confess:
I very nearly named you in the above, specifically, as one of the bodhran-critics who fell under that heading , that being:
Not mean-spirited or narrow, just NOT interested.
And fear not, Sir -
(not that you would)
I am sure your carefully cultivated image has suffered not at all.
Cheers.
# Posted on June 11th 2009 by Piece
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
tee he
# Posted on June 11th 2009 by ...
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
The subsidiary discussion about rhythm sections always following the melody is in danger of falling into confusion by not considering the fundamental difference between metre and rhythm. You can lay down a steady metrical beat - as would be required for dancing, for example - but in addition to that you can, and perhaps should, have within the beat a rhythm that follows the tune.
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
"If everyone that played a bodhran was a drummer there would be no problem."
I can understand that statement and agree with it, but I have been to MANY sessions without bodhran players with really, really, really bad stringed, wind and other instrument players that somehow get a total pass on the same type of issue. Are they "musicians"? Because they are trying a lead instrument tentatively, but read sheet music, somehow they are better.
Sounds like hypocrisy.
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by Micheál
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
There is probably a general consensus that a decent bodhran player is better to have at your session than some god awful out of tune out of time string scraper. But it's kind of like a rock and a hard place. However, the awful string player might be just new to it and might get better. At least they are trying to play the tune and there's potential.
OK, so with most god awful out of tune out of time string scrapers, they ain't gonner get any better. But if this is the case you can simply ask them to stop playing.
But the incesent pip popperty thump thump is never in a billion years gonna be a tune. Even at its very best all it can ever do is make it harder to hear the tune.
This is a specific distinction. There is no hypocracy.
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by ...
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Michael
Suggesting that people are 'better' than bodhran players cause the read music only works as arguement if everyone can read music.
Many of us cannot.
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Flippin' 'eck ... where did "I" say that "people are 'better' than bodhran players cause they read music"??
(... though the Freudian slip that suggests bodhran players are not people amused me ... )
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by ...
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Can I add a slight disention on the drummer issue?
Percussionists, no matter how good, that are precussionists first and not really trad musicians can really badly damamge a session. We've suffered this over a prolonged period through a talented percussionist, and very nice individual, that brought all his drumming skills, but no understanding of how to percuss (perscuss?) to irsih-music.
It was disastrous. It is more importnat to be familiar with the musical ideom that you are attempting to play than it is to be superb at your own instrument.
Understanding of, and feel for the music is vastly more important than technical skill on an instrument. Not just for percussion, but for all types of instrument. Drums and strums come out as worse than average candidates in our music as so many of the individual players come from other more dominant traditions e.g. rock, blues etc and think they can just garft their previously aquired skills on to another musical form. Whilst you get the odd classical violinist or fluatist doing something similar it is usually less destructive (and they tend to get bored and not come back every week).
- chris (not to knock classical types for the sake of it, some of the best fiddlers I know can do classical, but they realise that trad and classical are different genres of music with different requirements)
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Hi Llig. fair cop about the notations web page, should have rewritten that years ago. Only so many hours in a day.
I make no defense of the rhythm dawk who turns up at a session and ruins a carefully prepared afternoon. Kick them out, tar and feather them, use their bodhran as a frisbe, all of that and more. But that is to miss the point of the discussion. As someone has already said 'you cant hate an instrument because of the way you've heard it played'.
In the right hands the bodhran brings far more to a session than just a complementary monotone rhythm. Given a chance it will offer subtle sub harmonies, low bass, change key as the tune changes, grace note the parts in a tune, and often explain a part of a tune that otherwise might be missed. The art of the bodhran player is to do all this at the same time without anybody noticing. As Mick M'Goldrick once said, 'The thing about a good bodhran player is that you only notice them when they're not there'.
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by curiadydrwm
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
ha ha ha ... "explain a part of a tune that otherwise might be missed." ha ha ha ha. That's the biggest pile of idiotic nonsense I think I've ever read. You'll have to do a lot better that mate if you're to earn your daft oxymoron of a moniker.
And I've heard that Michael M'Goldrick thing before and I agree with it. It chimes in very nicely with what I've been saying for years. That the bodhran at it's very very best can only ever hope to entertain the status of irrelevance.
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by ...
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Llig:
"String scraper"?
Is that one of yours, Llig?
Marvelous.
Yours truly,
still snarfing my java,
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by Piece
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Hi Llig
Thank you for your kind words, but I'm not sure I can live up to them.
So it seems that the bodhran will always be an instrument you don't understand.
Perhaps we should end it there?
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by curiadydrwm
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
And it seems that the tunes will always be an art you'll never understand.
But I fear it won't end there.
# Posted on June 12th 2009 by ...
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
I listened to the black Planxty LP the other day. I realised that I can play all of the tunes on it, on the mandolin. Obviously I can also play them on a mouth organ, if I know what something goes like I can play it on a mouth organ.
However, I never progressed on the Mandolin, as i only learn airs on it. Last month I suddenly played "The Silver Spear" on it, so I imagine if I practised I could learn more.
However for "tunes" I am content to play the bodhran, so obviously not everyone becomes enraptured with a need to play melody.
It could be an age thing with me as my early influences, aged 7 to 10 would have been "Folk Groups" like the McPeakes and The Dubliners who played tunes, but did loads of songs.
Then The Chieftains arrived, with just tunes, but by then I was smitten as a "folkie".
So either I am
A: Lazy
B: Not a trad fan
C: Different.
I hope it is C because most people are different, even Mr Llig.
# Posted on June 13th 2009 by bodhran bliss
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Yeah, C for sure. But certainly A also. And if you say you are "content" to "play" the tunes on the bodhran and not even realise that you are not actually "playing" them, then it's for certain you are not a fan of the tunes at all.
# Posted on June 13th 2009 by ...
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Yes, obviously not everyone becomes enraptured with a need to play melody. Not everyone is a fan of the tunes.
# Posted on June 13th 2009 by ...
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
llig mate.Could B Bliss be allowed to be a fan of accompaniment and apply his enthusiasm for the bodhran in sessions where accompaniment is welcomed?
# Posted on June 13th 2009 by Gran Cassa
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
"If everyone who played the bodhran was a drummer, there'd be no problem"
That is an interesting comment. I've sat in sessions with skilled drummers or percussionists joining in, and the good ones tend to play with precision and restraint. They might not be necessary or authentic but the combined sound is not altogether bad. Further more, they can play percussion on a variety of objects and don't need an "authentic" goatskin drum like wot you see on the folk album covers.
Outside of web forums, the main objection people seem to have to bodhrans at sessions is not technical or ideological - it's just volume and clarity. It often muddies the sound to the point of unintelligibility and if you're sat next to one, you can't hear yourself play, let alone anyone else. From a distance, you can discern no melody in a session with too much drum and strum, just a dull boompety-boomp noise
# Posted on June 13th 2009 by Bren
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Bren, my objection is neither technical or ideological - it's just volume and clarity.
Gran, of course B Bliss is allowed to be a fan of accompaniment and apply his enthusiasm for the bodhran in sessions where accompaniment is welcomed. Welcomed by punters who are not fans of the tunes ... for whom the dull boompety-boomp noise is what they like.
# Posted on June 13th 2009 by ...
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
No llig , I'm not referring to punters. I'm referring to those sessions comprised of musicians who enjoy accompaniment.
# Posted on June 13th 2009 by Gran Cassa
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
However for "tunes" I am content to play the bodhran,
That is what I posted Mr Llig. I didn't say I "played tunes" on the bodhran. That as we know is impossible.
In my ideal world my contribution accompanying on the drum is a lot better than me just being "another fiddle player".
And maybe I am not lazy, although I accuse myself of that. Maybe I am an all round "folkie".
# Posted on June 13th 2009 by bodhran bliss
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Sorry mate, hands up, I miss quoted. Sorry. I shouldn't jump on a phrase without reading properly.
However ... to your ideal world:
It's an interesting juxtaposition of motive.
I am more than happy being just another fiddle player. My interest is in the tunes, the interpretation of the tunes, the sharing of them. And my interest is in others' interest in the tunes, their interpretations and sharing of them. Just like all my other tune playing chums. We're all just tune players. This is our motivation. Not to contribute, but to share.
It's an interesting examination of what a really good session is or could be. Is it a group of like minded chums who come to contribute to the session? Or is it a group of like minded chums who come to share what they have?
I like to think that, at its best, the tunes get plucked from the ether and are shared by the players playing them for that short transient moment of beauty before fading back to the ether of the tune players' subconsciouses.
And I just feel that the motivation to contribute, to enhance, to somehow make better, just kind of misses the simple act of sharing.
It's like Jesus making such big scene out of merely contributing a measly few loaves and fishes to five thousand people who are already sharing what they brought with them.
# Posted on June 13th 2009 by ...
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
One interpretation of that story is that some people need to be encouraged, motivated even, to share what they have. Which would give a certain irony to llig bringing it up whilst encouraging a sharing approach.
# Posted on June 14th 2009 by David50
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
The difference between sharing and contributing is subtle, but important I think. Sharing is selfless. Contributing comes from the self. It's about having the arrogance to believe that what you yourself is offereng has worth.
In this instance it's about the difference between tune players sharing tunes and someone with a drum having the arrogance to asume that his contribution is going to enhance the tunes.
# Posted on June 14th 2009 by ...
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
So the response, to sharing, of "good tune" rather than "well played" ?
The shared "communal endeavour", working/playing together, has a long history though. Some may feel the drum could contribute in that respect.
# Posted on June 14th 2009 by David50
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Subtle differences indeed llig, and it's an interesting thought. However I think the use of the word arrogant is coming it a bit strong to use about someone offering up a contribution that's not the tune. Granted, if that particular contribution is an unwanted gift then there is no point in forcing it upon anyone. Better to take the gift where it would be happily accepted, and such sessions do exist.
# Posted on June 14th 2009 by Gran Cassa
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
david, some may well feel the drum could contribute to the shared communal endeavour. But no one is ever gonna say to a bodhran player. "good tune".
Gran, I'm not using the word arrogant to only describe someone offering up a contribution that's not the tune. I've met many tune players who offer up tunes with arrogance. Unfortunately it's all to common. However, at best, we play to share tunes. A tune is there and we share in the playing of it. The bodhran does not share in the playing of the tune. It's as straight forward as that.
# Posted on June 14th 2009 by ...
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
What if you offer to share your musical talents and abilities because you believe that you can contribute to the local session but not all of the musicians at the local session agree with this idea?
# Posted on June 15th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
If you offer to share because you believe you can contribute, you have the whole thing backwards. That's my point.
You don't offer to share. You just share.
If you believe you can contribute, it comes from the self.
Subtle difference I know, but pertinent. You cannot share what only you have, that's giving. You can only share what have between you.
# Posted on June 15th 2009 by ...
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Then should I stop sharing my musical talents and abilities with the other musicians at the local sessions because I am unable to contribute?
I offered to share and they took me up on my offer to share. Once I began participating regularly, I discovered, to my surprise, that I was actually able to contribute something to the local sessions.
# Posted on June 15th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
I seem to remember you were asked to "fill out the sound"?
# Posted on June 15th 2009 by ...
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
'no one is ever gonna say to a bodhran player. "good tune".' Good point.
# Posted on June 15th 2009 by David50
Re: Why do people hate Bodhrans so much?
Yes, indeed. Your memory is correct. The other musicians at the local sessions seemed to think that a piano was needed to "fill out the sound". Or, at least, that was what they told me when I asked whether or not I could participate in the sessions.
# Posted on June 15th 2009 by fauxcelt