While there is no 'correct' way to string a 'zouk, most people I know put the higher thinner string to the upper side, so that it is the one you hit first on a downward strum. This does tend to make the higher string sound more prominent. It is also how Greek 'zouks are strung. I like it that way round myself.
However some people certainly put them the other way round, Peter Coe on his Sobell 'zouk for example.
I've heard ( of ) octave string intonation problems, but I don't find them myself, not to a significant degree anyway, including using a capo extensively.
What make and gauge of strings are we talking about ?
Usual way of dealing with the pitch variation, between octve strings, as you go up the frets is to compensates at the bridge (ie have a bridge designed to make high octave string shorter than low octave string). Mind you, I've fitted heavier strings on the lowest course of mine and tuned it down to a bass D (or sometimes E and more rarely C).
Luthiers hate this but it's been like it for a few years now, without harming the instrument in a detectable way, and I like having a bass drone string
while it isn't about strings, if you have intonation problems as you go up the neck, be sure your bridge is in the right place if it is a floating bridge, and also make sure your neck is still strait.
both of these things will make the harmonics out of tune, so that if you tune up the open strings, the frets will be wonky and they will get worse as you go up the neck
I play a 12-string guitar. While I have no intonation problems going up the frets, if I capo at the higher frets, I have to tweak with the tuning to have it sound right.
I am assuming this has to do with the difference in the size of the paired strings. In particular, it is the non-octave E and A strings which need to be tweaked.
I do a finger style on Bouzouki and Octave Mandolin, so I am actually playing the lower string first - hence the lower string is the thin string in an octave pair.
12 String guitars are difficult to capo. The best capo I know of is the G7th 12-String Performance Guitar Capo.
Of course I also have my own hand-made bridge on my 'zouk, so I can do any sort of compensation I like; but actually I have two compensations; the whole bridge is slanted slightly to the bass, plus both E and D strings come off the front edge of the rather thick-sectioned maple bridge, whilst A and G strings have a rebated edge so that they are slightly longer than they would otherwise be. But I don't put in an extra compensation for the octave strings. And any variation, in my experience, is only the minimum indicatable on my Intellitech tuner, so I'm not too bothered.
I reckon the currently supplied gauges of strings commercially available are pretty good for this.
Hmm...hard to tell from the nut - the slots all look more or less the same to me (strangely). The bridge is compensated for each pair of strings though - not for each individual string on the G and D pairs, so maybe that's part of the problem?
The action seems a little high at fret 7 and above (compared to my cheapo Ashbury Octave Mando for example)...its a new instrument now in the UK after its American owner brought it over from the states...maybe the truss rod needs a tweak but he wont let me at it with an Allen Key!!
I reckon your mate ( can't he get on this forum himself ? ) needs to get the instrument to a luthier, especially if he won't even let you adjust the truss-rod. Then he could sort all its problems out.
The high action might just be the basic setting - you obviously can't send out an instrument with a low setting, how would you raise it ? ( I do hope it hasn't got one of those adjustable bridges, the worst invention for transmitting sound vibrations since the original Bell telephone ).
Action and intonation both are options that might need re-setting, and certainly the original set-up might need tweaking after the stresses of a transatlantic journey. I certainly do !
Cheers Pete - if my mate used a mac instead of a clogged up PC he probably could get on here himself! I reckon handing it over for a reset is the way to go too.
I started this thread to settle an argument over which way round to octave string - he was right on that one!
One thing that I didn't see mentioned is that the octave strings need to be kinda close in tension. I've been experimenting with octave strings on my octave mandolin and am seeing that the thinner string should be a bit less than half the diameter of the thicker string.
Right now I've got a .046 string paired with a 0.22 (G) and .032 with .014 (D). The thinner string is on top currently but I'm going to switch that as soon as I get some replacement strings so that the thicker string will be hit first on a down stroke
I have a Crump bouzouki that is several years old and it is strung unison. If memory serves me correctly I think that was the default option. I do not remember him offering octave stringing although if someone asked for it I am sure he would do it. So unless your friend requested octave stringing, I would think that it would have come strung unison. Does your friend remember how it came from Phil?
Octave Stringing a Bouzouki
Octave Stringing a Bouzouki
When octave stringing a bouzouki, is the bass string in the pair (ie D) usually above its paired string that is an octave higher or below?
To clarify, if you are strumming down, would you hit the bass string first or the string that is an octave higher?
My mate has a lovely Crump zouk but it has intonation problems on fret 7 with octave stringing - any suggestions?
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by bodatcha
Re: Octave Stringing a Bouzouki
While there is no 'correct' way to string a 'zouk, most people I know put the higher thinner string to the upper side, so that it is the one you hit first on a downward strum. This does tend to make the higher string sound more prominent. It is also how Greek 'zouks are strung. I like it that way round myself.
However some people certainly put them the other way round, Peter Coe on his Sobell 'zouk for example.
I've heard ( of ) octave string intonation problems, but I don't find them myself, not to a significant degree anyway, including using a capo extensively.
What make and gauge of strings are we talking about ?
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Octave Stringing a Bouzouki
I agree with GP, but have a look at this useful site:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~hspeek/bouzouki/stringing.html#octave_strings
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by Gran Cassa
Re: Octave Stringing a Bouzouki
Usual way of dealing with the pitch variation, between octve strings, as you go up the frets is to compensates at the bridge (ie have a bridge designed to make high octave string shorter than low octave string). Mind you, I've fitted heavier strings on the lowest course of mine and tuned it down to a bass D (or sometimes E and more rarely C).
Luthiers hate this but it's been like it for a few years now, without harming the instrument in a detectable way, and I like having a bass drone string
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by greg sheils
Re: Octave Stringing a Bouzouki
I would ring the maker. He seems a good bloke.
simple
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: Octave Stringing a Bouzouki
while it isn't about strings, if you have intonation problems as you go up the neck, be sure your bridge is in the right place if it is a floating bridge, and also make sure your neck is still strait.
both of these things will make the harmonics out of tune, so that if you tune up the open strings, the frets will be wonky and they will get worse as you go up the neck
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by Nate Ryan
Re: Octave Stringing a Bouzouki
I play a 12-string guitar. While I have no intonation problems going up the frets, if I capo at the higher frets, I have to tweak with the tuning to have it sound right.
I am assuming this has to do with the difference in the size of the paired strings. In particular, it is the non-octave E and A strings which need to be tweaked.
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by Celtic Guitar
Re: Octave Stringing a Bouzouki
I do a finger style on Bouzouki and Octave Mandolin, so I am actually playing the lower string first - hence the lower string is the thin string in an octave pair.
12 String guitars are difficult to capo. The best capo I know of is the G7th 12-String Performance Guitar Capo.
http://www.guitarcenter.com/G7th-12-String-Performance-Guitar-Capo-361631-i1168240.gc
The usual problem is the thick and thin octave pairs, resulting in a muted sound or buzz.
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by Micheál
Re: Octave Stringing a Bouzouki
Of course I also have my own hand-made bridge on my 'zouk, so I can do any sort of compensation I like; but actually I have two compensations; the whole bridge is slanted slightly to the bass, plus both E and D strings come off the front edge of the rather thick-sectioned maple bridge, whilst A and G strings have a rebated edge so that they are slightly longer than they would otherwise be. But I don't put in an extra compensation for the octave strings. And any variation, in my experience, is only the minimum indicatable on my Intellitech tuner, so I'm not too bothered.
I reckon the currently supplied gauges of strings commercially available are pretty good for this.
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Octave Stringing a Bouzouki
It sounds to me like a bridge problem on the Crump......
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by seaniemcg
Re: Octave Stringing a Bouzouki
Was the Crump initially set up for octave stringing?
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by Steve L
Re: Octave Stringing a Bouzouki
Good question Steve - I think not...but I'll report back when I have more information.
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by bodatcha
Re: Octave Stringing a Bouzouki
I'm not sure how to read your original post - is the intonation off ONLY at the 7th fret, or at the 7th and above, getting worse as you go higher?
Problems that occur only at the 7th are usually down to the length/strength of the player's pinky, rather than the instrument.
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by skreech
Re: Octave Stringing a Bouzouki
A glance at the nut will tell you what the maker intended. Look at the slot sizes. Any changes will call for some adjustment there.
# Posted on May 29th 2009 by will morgan
Re: Octave Stringing a Bouzouki
OK - I'm going to see the zouk tonight so I'll check the nut and report back - cheers for the advice folks.
# Posted on May 30th 2009 by bodatcha
Re: Octave Stringing a Bouzouki
Hmm...hard to tell from the nut - the slots all look more or less the same to me (strangely). The bridge is compensated for each pair of strings though - not for each individual string on the G and D pairs, so maybe that's part of the problem?
The action seems a little high at fret 7 and above (compared to my cheapo Ashbury Octave Mando for example)...its a new instrument now in the UK after its American owner brought it over from the states...maybe the truss rod needs a tweak but he wont let me at it with an Allen Key!!
There could be fingering issues too.....
# Posted on May 31st 2009 by bodatcha
Re: Octave Stringing a Bouzouki
I reckon your mate ( can't he get on this forum himself ? ) needs to get the instrument to a luthier, especially if he won't even let you adjust the truss-rod. Then he could sort all its problems out.
The high action might just be the basic setting - you obviously can't send out an instrument with a low setting, how would you raise it ? ( I do hope it hasn't got one of those adjustable bridges, the worst invention for transmitting sound vibrations since the original Bell telephone ).
Action and intonation both are options that might need re-setting, and certainly the original set-up might need tweaking after the stresses of a transatlantic journey. I certainly do !
# Posted on May 31st 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Octave Stringing a Bouzouki
Cheers Pete - if my mate used a mac instead of a clogged up PC he probably could get on here himself! I reckon handing it over for a reset is the way to go too.
I started this thread to settle an argument over which way round to octave string - he was right on that one!
# Posted on May 31st 2009 by bodatcha
Re: Octave Stringing a Bouzouki
One thing that I didn't see mentioned is that the octave strings need to be kinda close in tension. I've been experimenting with octave strings on my octave mandolin and am seeing that the thinner string should be a bit less than half the diameter of the thicker string.
Right now I've got a .046 string paired with a 0.22 (G) and .032 with .014 (D). The thinner string is on top currently but I'm going to switch that as soon as I get some replacement strings so that the thicker string will be hit first on a down stroke
D'Addario strings has a great PDF document that gives string tensions for all their strings at various pitches. You can find that at http://www.daddario.com/upload/tension_chart_13934.pdf
Pete
# Posted on June 1st 2009 by braccio
Re: Octave Stringing a Bouzouki
I have a Crump bouzouki that is several years old and it is strung unison. If memory serves me correctly I think that was the default option. I do not remember him offering octave stringing although if someone asked for it I am sure he would do it. So unless your friend requested octave stringing, I would think that it would have come strung unison. Does your friend remember how it came from Phil?
# Posted on June 1st 2009 by rob zouk