Hi, guys... I'd like to find (and possibly download) some general accompaniments for reels, jigs and so on... So I can play my tunes on them. Do you know where I can look for this kind of things?
Hi Death,
I am a little confused as the accompanist follows the tune and not the other way round I would suggest you go to a local session and talk to the people there. Most accompainists will play for you live at the price of a drink.
Step 1:
Subscribe to this guy on youtube... http://www.youtube.com/user/k4hx1 he has loads of videos up of sessions, and tunes of very accomplished musicians.
Step 2:
Grab your instrument, sit in front of your computer, listen and practice!
Well, I usually play at sessions with good musicians. The fact is that I need the accompaniment for some gigs with a dance company: I'll have to play flute with a fiddle player but we need a sort of base and we don't have a guitar or a bodhran player. I know that a good accompaniment is different from a tune to another... I just tried to ask if someone knows where to find "something". I'm kinda desperate! Thanks.
Do I understand this right? The gig is to play for a dance company, and they can hire two musicians (flute and fiddle) but want some "accompaniment"?
Since it's for a dance company, odds are you're going to be playing pretty strict sets, same tune, same repeats, same tempos - okay, this can be done. Get your sets recorded with your fiddler, and then hire a guitarist (or zouketeer, or piano driver) to record an appropriate backing that you can play to when you're gigging. This is probably trickier than it sounds (for example, you need to make sure there's a long lead-in when you record your initial tracks, so the guitarist can give you some cue time, so you can start playing at the appropriate moment) but if you get something that works, even if it's a little less than ideal, you're in business with your two-man trio.
Good luck, sounds like a miserable gig.
I believe you could rig up some basic accompaniments using the program, Band in a Box -- you need some basic music theory and keyboard skills though to write your own comps - but the nice thing about Band in a Box -- or garage band for that matter -- is you could modify the comp instrumentation -- ie different sounding piano, guitars, bass ect ---
I believe Apple recently released an upgrade for garage band that includes the POTUS Barack-a-morrakkas shaker sound for a more world music feel which can be desired sometimes when playing with Irish dancers.
I'm sorry to have to be rude;
Tell the mean bastards to hire another musician; they want more for their bucks than is reasonable, so you have to be unreasonable back.
A musician is worthy of his/her hire !
After all, to get the effect they seem to want you will need to engage another musician offsite anyway. Who pays that person ? You ?
The Musicians Union over here has been fighting a battle for years over performances that use synthesizers and pre-recorded tracks to avoid using and paying for real musicians. This applies worldwide.
well said Pete.
l think the idea of using a tape is flawed as if you use a backing track they may as well not have live music at all. This will occur to the dancers very quickly I suspect
So where are you Death ? Apart from the obvious answer everywhere
Maybe the third musician would not fit with the look the director wants, in which case you could suggest sticking them behind a screen - it seems to work for U2 and Oasis, so why not for you ?
I hope you are not suggesting getting commercial recordings by established bands and removing all but the guitar/bouzouki/piano and then using them for backing. That would be completely morally and legally bankrupt!
It's fun watching you all jumping to conclusions. De'ath hasn't said the dance company refused to hire a third musician. (S)he merely said they don't have a guitar or bodhran player.
What about playing without accompaniment? Good players ought to be able to punch out a solid rhythm for dancers without guitars or bodhrans. As well as being more traditional this would save you a lot of technical hassles and potential for cock-ups during the gigs.
It's not for me to impose my musical tastes on anyone else, but I would much rather hear a fiddle and flute playing unaccompanied than playing to a pre-recorded backing track. A fiddle and flute are quite capable of producing a full enough sound together without strummed chords or percussive rhythm behind them.
Has the dance company specifically asked for accompaniment or do you just prefer to play with accompaniment? If it is the latter, I suggest you try playing unaccompanied - you will find it easier and more satisfying (and, ultimately, play better) than playing to a backing track. Ideally, when playing for dancers, there should be communication between musician and dancer - the dancers dance to the music and the musicians play to the dance. If you play to a backing track, then the musicians and dancers must slaves to the rhythm of the backing track - a recording cannot adjust itself to the musicians or the dancers.
A good accompanist or backer will be able to adapt to whatever it is you are doing. It's where most fall down, they want a generic pattern for a jig, reel etc. and chord charts that will work for every tune. No such animal. It may work for a drum track, but how will an mp3 or recording know when you change key for part B of some tunes etc. A good accompanist will be able to wing it with you, pretty much no matter what you throw at them. You should be left to focus on your own playing, and a good backer will focus on your playing too. About 110% focused on you, not the other way around. If you find one you can trust you can just do whatever you like and they will be there, you won't have to think about what they are doing.
The true challenge of accompanying is to be able to adapt to each new melody player's phrasing, as well as knowing the tunes, knowing the key, knowing the subtle shifts of an unusual melody. You are better off I think finding a decent backup player and recording yourselves sitting around playing, then use that recording to practice further to at home.
Iris has it dead right.
But you haven't answered the earlier question, De'ath, is it you or the dance company that wants the sound of that third musician ? After all, apart from for public dances, much ITM was apparently solo instrument for many centuries.
And fiddle and flute together sounds fine to me.
It seems like you have two choices:
Either
1. Take the gig, tell them you couldn't find a suitable backing track and give them some proper music - if they don't hire you again, it's their loss.
or
2. Stuff the gig and let them dance to a recording of Cotton Eyed Joe or the Riverdance theme or whatever they like to dance to these days.
What's the point in having live musicians if they're expected to play like robots?
Iris, you say the prettiest things. How dreamy. Sigh.
"You should be left to focus on your own playing, and a good backer will focus on your playing too. About 110% focused on you, not the other way around."
Accompaniment for irish music?
Accompaniment for irish music?
Hi, guys... I'd like to find (and possibly download) some general accompaniments for reels, jigs and so on... So I can play my tunes on them. Do you know where I can look for this kind of things?
# Posted on May 27th 2009 by death
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
There is no such thing as a 'general' accompaniment for a tune type. The accompaniment is supposed to follow a particular tune appropriately.
# Posted on May 27th 2009 by DaveL35
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
Hi Death,
I am a little confused as the accompanist follows the tune and not the other way round I would suggest you go to a local session and talk to the people there. Most accompainists will play for you live at the price of a drink.
# Posted on May 27th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
Step 1:
Subscribe to this guy on youtube... http://www.youtube.com/user/k4hx1 he has loads of videos up of sessions, and tunes of very accomplished musicians.
Step 2:
Grab your instrument, sit in front of your computer, listen and practice!
# Posted on May 27th 2009 by WobblingFiddle
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
Well, I usually play at sessions with good musicians. The fact is that I need the accompaniment for some gigs with a dance company: I'll have to play flute with a fiddle player but we need a sort of base and we don't have a guitar or a bodhran player. I know that a good accompaniment is different from a tune to another... I just tried to ask if someone knows where to find "something". I'm kinda desperate! Thanks.
# Posted on May 27th 2009 by death
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
You mean, like kareoke?
# Posted on May 27th 2009 by greg sheils
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
Karaoke
If so there is the BBC virtual session
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/r2music/folk/sessions/swf/folkmenu.html
# Posted on May 27th 2009 by greg sheils
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
I know... it's sad. Dirty job, but someone has to do it
# Posted on May 27th 2009 by death
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
didn't somebody ask recently about the music minus one CDS and didn't they get directed to an Irish trad version of the same idea?
the "karaoke" bit made me remember it, but I can't remember enough details to search it up....anybody else remember that thread from 2 or 3 weeks ago?
# Posted on May 27th 2009 by Nate Ryan
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
Do I understand this right? The gig is to play for a dance company, and they can hire two musicians (flute and fiddle) but want some "accompaniment"?
Since it's for a dance company, odds are you're going to be playing pretty strict sets, same tune, same repeats, same tempos - okay, this can be done. Get your sets recorded with your fiddler, and then hire a guitarist (or zouketeer, or piano driver) to record an appropriate backing that you can play to when you're gigging. This is probably trickier than it sounds (for example, you need to make sure there's a long lead-in when you record your initial tracks, so the guitarist can give you some cue time, so you can start playing at the appropriate moment) but if you get something that works, even if it's a little less than ideal, you're in business with your two-man trio.
Good luck, sounds like a miserable gig.
# Posted on May 27th 2009 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
I believe you could rig up some basic accompaniments using the program, Band in a Box -- you need some basic music theory and keyboard skills though to write your own comps - but the nice thing about Band in a Box -- or garage band for that matter -- is you could modify the comp instrumentation -- ie different sounding piano, guitars, bass ect ---
I believe Apple recently released an upgrade for garage band that includes the POTUS Barack-a-morrakkas shaker sound for a more world music feel which can be desired sometimes when playing with Irish dancers.
# Posted on May 27th 2009 by Reeds Munson
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
I'm sorry to have to be rude;
Tell the mean bastards to hire another musician; they want more for their bucks than is reasonable, so you have to be unreasonable back.
A musician is worthy of his/her hire !
After all, to get the effect they seem to want you will need to engage another musician offsite anyway. Who pays that person ? You ?
The Musicians Union over here has been fighting a battle for years over performances that use synthesizers and pre-recorded tracks to avoid using and paying for real musicians. This applies worldwide.
# Posted on May 27th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
well said Pete.
l think the idea of using a tape is flawed as if you use a backing track they may as well not have live music at all. This will occur to the dancers very quickly I suspect
So where are you Death ? Apart from the obvious answer everywhere
# Posted on May 27th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
Maybe the third musician would not fit with the look the director wants, in which case you could suggest sticking them behind a screen - it seems to work for U2 and Oasis, so why not for you ?
Also the audience can then play spot the musician
good luck Steve
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by selston steve
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
This was a recent Karaoke type thread
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/21448.
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by greg sheils
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
And here's one for eliminating instruments from recordings using audicity (not tried it myself though).
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/21448
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by greg sheils
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php?
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by greg sheils
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
I hope you are not suggesting getting commercial recordings by established bands and removing all but the guitar/bouzouki/piano and then using them for backing. That would be completely morally and legally bankrupt!
I must have misunderstood.
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
It's fun watching you all jumping to conclusions. De'ath hasn't said the dance company refused to hire a third musician. (S)he merely said they don't have a guitar or bodhran player.
What about playing without accompaniment? Good players ought to be able to punch out a solid rhythm for dancers without guitars or bodhrans. As well as being more traditional this would save you a lot of technical hassles and potential for cock-ups during the gigs.
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by Jeeves Tones
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
Otherwise, heck, just put on a CD and mime to it!
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by Jeeves Tones
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
It's not for me to impose my musical tastes on anyone else, but I would much rather hear a fiddle and flute playing unaccompanied than playing to a pre-recorded backing track. A fiddle and flute are quite capable of producing a full enough sound together without strummed chords or percussive rhythm behind them.
Has the dance company specifically asked for accompaniment or do you just prefer to play with accompaniment? If it is the latter, I suggest you try playing unaccompanied - you will find it easier and more satisfying (and, ultimately, play better) than playing to a backing track. Ideally, when playing for dancers, there should be communication between musician and dancer - the dancers dance to the music and the musicians play to the dance. If you play to a backing track, then the musicians and dancers must slaves to the rhythm of the backing track - a recording cannot adjust itself to the musicians or the dancers.
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
A good accompanist or backer will be able to adapt to whatever it is you are doing. It's where most fall down, they want a generic pattern for a jig, reel etc. and chord charts that will work for every tune. No such animal. It may work for a drum track, but how will an mp3 or recording know when you change key for part B of some tunes etc. A good accompanist will be able to wing it with you, pretty much no matter what you throw at them. You should be left to focus on your own playing, and a good backer will focus on your playing too. About 110% focused on you, not the other way around. If you find one you can trust you can just do whatever you like and they will be there, you won't have to think about what they are doing.
The true challenge of accompanying is to be able to adapt to each new melody player's phrasing, as well as knowing the tunes, knowing the key, knowing the subtle shifts of an unusual melody. You are better off I think finding a decent backup player and recording yourselves sitting around playing, then use that recording to practice further to at home.
# Posted on May 28th 2009 by irisnevins
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
Iris has it dead right.
But you haven't answered the earlier question, De'ath, is it you or the dance company that wants the sound of that third musician ? After all, apart from for public dances, much ITM was apparently solo instrument for many centuries.
And fiddle and flute together sounds fine to me.
# Posted on May 29th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
Sometimes dancers don't understand and don't matter about good music. All they want is noises and showy stuff...
# Posted on May 29th 2009 by death
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
It seems like you have two choices:
Either
1. Take the gig, tell them you couldn't find a suitable backing track and give them some proper music - if they don't hire you again, it's their loss.
or
2. Stuff the gig and let them dance to a recording of Cotton Eyed Joe or the Riverdance theme or whatever they like to dance to these days.
What's the point in having live musicians if they're expected to play like robots?
# Posted on May 29th 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
Iris, you say the prettiest things. How dreamy. Sigh.
"You should be left to focus on your own playing, and a good backer will focus on your playing too. About 110% focused on you, not the other way around."
# Posted on May 29th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
...yeah, and tell these cheapskate dancers that they paid for two musicians, and that's what they get. They want three? Pay for three. Sheesh.
# Posted on May 29th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Accompaniment for irish music?
my motto is get the price of four for three because they're worth six (based on the value of my outfit)
# Posted on June 3rd 2009 by lisaniska