as in the expression "i couldn't give a Fiddler's F*ck who wrote the tune it is still a load of sh~t!" the same expression could be substituted for " i couldn't give a tupenny damn...." does this mean a FF is equivalent to a miniscule amount of money, implying that fiddler's are people of easy virtue?
Please advise with detailed references and photographs.
If it's the same as a flying f*ck, the implication may be that they're getting paid by the minute, and that they're fast even by Paddy Pantsdown standards! Maybe it's a reference to digital velocity (the opposite of a "slowhand"?). Or it may involve aerobatics (in which case, I'd like to see the photos). Speculation only, of course, as I've no personal experience in this area.
Why are you being so coy? 3 national newspapers today used the word f*ck in their front cover stories, as part of the rivettingly interesting (yawn) saga of Alistair Campbell's diaries.
Myself, I'm trying not to fall foul of the offside rule, to wit: "foul language .... will not be tolerated". Rest assured, ottery, in real life I've a mouth like a sewer.
I'm sure 'foul' means language used in an offensive and insulting manner, not just certain arbitrary words, though I stand by to be castigated if I am wrong(!).
By the most amazing coincidence, I actually have a picture of a **ddl*rs **ck on the desk in front of me at the moment. It's a print by Rowlandson, the 18th/19th century caricaturist entitled 'The Concert', In which an old f*ddler plays music from a manuscript laid on a delighted looking young lady's back while simultaneously 'pleasuring' her from behind.
I'm sure that any of you interested 'connoisseurs' can find it somewhere on the internet, it was originally printed as part of a set called Pretty Little Games sometime around 1800, and should provide inspiration and pointers to improving your 'technique' (though whether your fiddling will improve is anybodies guess!)
As mackers suggests a f**k is the same as one penny's worth, hence the expression "I couldn't give two f**ks" which means the same as "I couldn't give a tupenny damn"
What's all this fuss about a "fiddler's fick"? Is it a device for cleaning out your f-holes? An involuntary spasm brought on by muscular stress? A spelling mistake?
From the same source as A Tinkers Damn, and The Cat's Meow....
also, it may have something to do with how "quick" the fiddlers are.... A fiddlers f*ck would be a very brief encounter. Like about 30 seconds.... They should be slower and more rhythmic, like the drummers....
Well, that would be true, lady luck has not smiled on me, yet. But all things being equal, I prefer the ceillists. That is one beautiful instrument. And when played correctly, the eroticism is tangible.
If you're thinking of the word I think you're thinking of, Zina, it's originally an innocuous technical term from the sailmaker's loft which refers to a particular feature sometimes put into panel joins in sails 8>)
You'd probably only find the word used in old nautical texts or books to do with historical boat-building techniques and similar.
The feature it describes isn't used much in modern sails and they probably use a different word now anyway, since the original one's been, ahem, "appropriated". If you do find a description, it's obvious why the word has acquired its current usage.
("Decorative marlinspike seamanship" is is something I do in my idle hours to help pay the bills and so I have a few old reference books on topics nautical, which is where I found the origin of the term.)
But I'm straying off-topic on this otherwise erudite thread - sorry!
No ! , I was thinking of a laugh..... A Cello's Chortle... a Cellists Chortle.... sorry... right, "as tart as a cellist's chortle".
Zina, what is the name of that great trad fiddler who came to Denver recently, something like Alaistair McClain, no... I forget, anyway, he had this wonderful cellist to accompany him, and she played with an aggressive style I've never heard or seen before. It blew me away, and if I can ever find her name, I'm going to propose marriage to her, (of course, she'll have me arrested for stalking) - at least, I will buy all of her known and available recordings. I can still think back on the evening and remember every delicious note of that amazing style of play.
There is an "alternative cellist" coming to Swallow Hill in two weeks,. I can't wait, I hope the playing style will be more of the same!
Anyway, my remarks are starting to debase myself in the eyes of the session community. I think I'll return to the drum thread until this all dies down. bye!
Hey! greenman - the essence of that joke was copyrighted in post 2. I demand royalties; either that, or we could start another thread entitled "things you've said on threads that you wish you hadn't". I refer you to Dave/Twiz's Tenterden weekend anecdote here: http://thesession.org/discussions/display.php/2167
Webmaster Jeremy - do my eyes deceive me, or have you amended ottery's spelling of f*ck in post 3? I'm 99.99% certain he spelled it out in full originally.
Irish Ruff,
Never been to Denver but could you be talking about Alastair Fraser and Natalie Hass who have been touring together recentle. I saw them in Edinburgh in August. Brilliant.
Um, yes, he did amend it, or maybe he has a robot who does these things automatically(?). I also got scolded for using 'bad language', I think for the first time in about thirty years... (hangs head in shame)
Irish Ruff
I f you fancied her at the gig why didn't you find out her name there and then?
When I go to a gig I like to find out everything about the person eg What make of instrument,influences,CD's recorded etc. and in your case availability!You've only got one life -lead it!
Alan
So what's the equivalent of fiddlers' fick for a cellist? Cellist's C*nt? (Might be a spelling mistake - could have been Cellists Count - missed a key typing. You know the type of thing. Happens to anyone and everyone).
... you're right, that lot should rightly have been dumped in irish ruff's lap! Sincere apologies. "things you've said on threads ... ", indeed! And, to go by my own meager experience, he was wrong about the drummers.
yes nasty, you are good.... reminds me of my ex-wife... I open my mouth, and promptly receive a pummeling. all that remains is to flee towards a neutral corner, and hope that you don't follow me...
Bof! not the old "ex-wife" jibe! By all means, take to your corner. The acoustics are better there. No harm intended, heaven knows. Never pummelled anyone in ma puff.
In my locale the F word can be used for almost any part of speech.
Thus "who does the fu*king fu*ker think he's fu*king with" or
" that fu*king fu*kwhit, fu*ked the fu*king fu*kers wife".
I don't think you could say that in any other language.
You know what gets me, though? If I'm absolutely angry, I cry out of sheer inability to let what I really want to say out, and then I look like some fecking wimpy girl, which makes me even angrier... LOL
Well, we often come over all angry rather than admit we're feeling hurt, so maybe sometimes you're better off having a good cry. No need to get angry with yourself for that. Anybody calls you wimpy or manipulative, f*ck 'em.
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck? What about a tinkers breakfast?
i first heard the fiddlers ***k epression used by my father on many occasions though it was often accompanied by or replaced by mokeys b*ll*x.
In an unrelated incident i once refered to my fathers brother as a monkeys uncle just moments before i actually realised the faux paus (is that how its spelt?) nature of my statement and too late to stop it boomeranging back on me. Boomerang , now there was a horse that could jump for ireland, though i cant remember the name of the rider, they done us proud.
Anyway 'a tinkers breakfast' ...answers on a postcard if ye want. but does anyone know the true meaning of this expression??? Best had on a sunday morining before going back to sleep.
A verbal pummeling, not a physical one. When the vitriol starts falling around my ears, the effect is just as damaging as a blow to the nose. I pummeled a bloke once, rather, it was just one blow in a brief bar scuffle over a rude remark to my friend. Years ago. Horrid! Swore me off of the physical violence forever.
Ps - wot in a fiddlers f**k is a tinker anyway? A shoemaker, no thats a cobbler, a barrelmaker, no that's a cooper.
A "tinker" is a travelling person who fixes things made of metal, like pots and such. They were generally Travellers (Pavee) in Ireland. It's an insult to call someone a Tinker in a certain tone of voice, which probably tells you all you need to know.
Karen, I think you're giving me credit for being a much nicer person than I in fact am. In real life, I'm fighting to hold my tongue, because I've a vicious mouth on me if I'm not careful. If I let it all out, no one would ever speak to me again! So it's frustration making me cry, really. LOL
I still don't get this "fick" thing. Is a fick the technical name for that block of rosin , or for a well-known psychiatric problem specific to fiddlers?
It's the equivalent of a PIN number - you know, a Personal Identification Number number: people say "number" again, not realising it's contained in the abbreviation PIN.
So it is with fick (properly spelled fic), which is a fiddler's tic, a particular nervous tic brought about by the subtle pressure of the naked fiddle (ie no shoulder rest) on the collarbone over years of fiddling; people say fiddler's fic/fick because they don't realise that the F in fic/fick is for fiddler, and so "fiddler's" is redundant.
Cue a shower of redundant fiddler jokes from disgruntled shakey egg fingerers.
Interestingly, greenman, rumour has it (and for legal reasons, I would stress that this is allegation, pure) that there was a recipe a couple of centuries ago for a rosin which contained trace, nay, homeopathic, amounts of a bodhran player's blood.
Zina - better to assume the best of people, than assume the worst and enter the twilight zone of self-fulfilling prophecy. That said (shrieks) if you ever let loose your vicious mouth on me- be afraid, be very afraid!
Nastyweegirl, that particular rosin sounds like the perfect thing for some fiddlers I've played with! Present company (in current session) excepted. :0)
Yes, a tinker was one, who among other things, made copper cooking utensils. A pot for example was assembled from flat sheets being bent and then the side seam and the bottom parts which mated were cut into dovetail joints which were pounded with a hammer to fit them together, making a *tinking* sound. To make the joints liquid tight they were then soldered, or filled with molten zinc. Copper boilers for moonshine distillation are still made this way (how do I know that?) When a tinker needed the molten metal to flow into a difficult area, a *tinker's dam* was constructed, of clay or some other malleable but nonflammable material, so as to allow the molten metal to fill a hollow.
Chris
what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
as in the expression "i couldn't give a Fiddler's F*ck who wrote the tune it is still a load of sh~t!" the same expression could be substituted for " i couldn't give a tupenny damn...." does this mean a FF is equivalent to a miniscule amount of money, implying that fiddler's are people of easy virtue?
Please advise with detailed references and photographs.
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by mackers
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
If it's the same as a flying f*ck, the implication may be that they're getting paid by the minute, and that they're fast even by Paddy Pantsdown standards! Maybe it's a reference to digital velocity (the opposite of a "slowhand"?). Or it may involve aerobatics (in which case, I'd like to see the photos). Speculation only, of course, as I've no personal experience in this area.
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by nastyweegirl
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
Why are you being so coy? 3 national newspapers today used the word f*ck in their front cover stories, as part of the rivettingly interesting (yawn) saga of Alistair Campbell's diaries.
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by Ottery
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
Myself, I'm trying not to fall foul of the offside rule, to wit: "foul language .... will not be tolerated". Rest assured, ottery, in real life I've a mouth like a sewer.
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by nastyweegirl
Re: what is a F*ddlers F*ck?
I'm sure 'foul' means language used in an offensive and insulting manner, not just certain arbitrary words, though I stand by to be castigated if I am wrong(!).
By the most amazing coincidence, I actually have a picture of a **ddl*rs **ck on the desk in front of me at the moment. It's a print by Rowlandson, the 18th/19th century caricaturist entitled 'The Concert', In which an old f*ddler plays music from a manuscript laid on a delighted looking young lady's back while simultaneously 'pleasuring' her from behind.
I'm sure that any of you interested 'connoisseurs' can find it somewhere on the internet, it was originally printed as part of a set called Pretty Little Games sometime around 1800, and should provide inspiration and pointers to improving your 'technique' (though whether your fiddling will improve is anybodies guess!)
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by Ottery
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
As mackers suggests a f**k is the same as one penny's worth, hence the expression "I couldn't give two f**ks" which means the same as "I couldn't give a tupenny damn"
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by Johnny Jay
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
Well, that would be my own take on it, as well, but I'm not the webmaster here. Maybe Jeremy will clarify ... hey ref, what do you say?
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by nastyweegirl
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
... And obviously, what I do find offensive about the Rowlandson cartoon is that the fiddler is playing from the dots (!)
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by Ottery
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
What's all this fuss about a "fiddler's fick"? Is it a device for cleaning out your f-holes? An involuntary spasm brought on by muscular stress? A spelling mistake?
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by greenman
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
Or for cleaning out your ear'oles?
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by greenman
(Was that a postmodern wrap-up?)
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by greenman
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
Fiddlers F*ck?....
From the same source as A Tinkers Damn, and The Cat's Meow....
also, it may have something to do with how "quick" the fiddlers are.... A fiddlers f*ck would be a very brief encounter. Like about 30 seconds.... They should be slower and more rhythmic, like the drummers....
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by irish ruff
GO TO BED NOW, GREENMAN
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by greenman
But my wife's on nights...
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by greenman
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
LOL Charlie -- you've obviously been with the wrong fiddlers...
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
Well, that would be true, lady luck has not smiled on me, yet. But all things being equal, I prefer the ceillists. That is one beautiful instrument. And when played correctly, the eroticism is tangible.
A Fiddlers F*ck.......
A Cellists ________ ?
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by irish ruff
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
Well, there's only one C word I can think of, and I find it highly offensive. *grin*
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
If you're thinking of the word I think you're thinking of, Zina, it's originally an innocuous technical term from the sailmaker's loft which refers to a particular feature sometimes put into panel joins in sails 8>)
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by Tish
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
Never! Is it really? I learn something new every day around here...
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
One of the lesser-known examples of nautical talk finding its way into everyday language 8>)
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by Tish
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
You'd probably only find the word used in old nautical texts or books to do with historical boat-building techniques and similar.
The feature it describes isn't used much in modern sails and they probably use a different word now anyway, since the original one's been, ahem, "appropriated". If you do find a description, it's obvious why the word has acquired its current usage.
("Decorative marlinspike seamanship" is is something I do in my idle hours to help pay the bills and so I have a few old reference books on topics nautical, which is where I found the origin of the term.)
But I'm straying off-topic on this otherwise erudite thread - sorry!
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by Tish
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
Cellist's Chuck? Gosh Zina you're easily offended
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by Dr. Dow
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
No ! , I was thinking of a laugh..... A Cello's Chortle... a Cellists Chortle.... sorry... right, "as tart as a cellist's chortle".
Zina, what is the name of that great trad fiddler who came to Denver recently, something like Alaistair McClain, no... I forget, anyway, he had this wonderful cellist to accompany him, and she played with an aggressive style I've never heard or seen before. It blew me away, and if I can ever find her name, I'm going to propose marriage to her, (of course, she'll have me arrested for stalking) - at least, I will buy all of her known and available recordings. I can still think back on the evening and remember every delicious note of that amazing style of play.
There is an "alternative cellist" coming to Swallow Hill in two weeks,. I can't wait, I hope the playing style will be more of the same!
Anyway, my remarks are starting to debase myself in the eyes of the session community. I think I'll return to the drum thread until this all dies down. bye!
# Posted on September 24th 2003 by irish ruff
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck? / flying f*ck
Hey! greenman - the essence of that joke was copyrighted in post 2. I demand royalties; either that, or we could start another thread entitled "things you've said on threads that you wish you hadn't". I refer you to Dave/Twiz's Tenterden weekend anecdote here: http://thesession.org/discussions/display.php/2167
Webmaster Jeremy - do my eyes deceive me, or have you amended ottery's spelling of f*ck in post 3? I'm 99.99% certain he spelled it out in full originally.
# Posted on September 24th 2003 by nastyweegirl
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
Irish Ruff,
Never been to Denver but could you be talking about Alastair Fraser and Natalie Hass who have been touring together recentle. I saw them in Edinburgh in August. Brilliant.
John
# Posted on September 24th 2003 by Johnny Jay
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
YES! Thank you. Horray!!! Natalie is the one..... She is so good on the cello. She rocks!
# Posted on September 24th 2003 by irish ruff
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
Um, yes, he did amend it, or maybe he has a robot who does these things automatically(?). I also got scolded for using 'bad language', I think for the first time in about thirty years... (hangs head in shame)
# Posted on September 24th 2003 by Ottery
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
Irish Ruff
I f you fancied her at the gig why didn't you find out her name there and then?
When I go to a gig I like to find out everything about the person eg What make of instrument,influences,CD's recorded etc. and in your case availability!You've only got one life -lead it!
Alan
# Posted on September 24th 2003 by Alanmmcgregor
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
Hmm, and I had thought it was Abby Newton for some reason. I couldn't make that concert, was working, as usual.
# Posted on September 24th 2003 by Zina Lee
"Cellist's Chuck" *snort*
# Posted on September 24th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
Hey Nastyweegurl!
Read it again.
So what's the equivalent of fiddlers' fick for a cellist? Cellist's C*nt? (Might be a spelling mistake - could have been Cellists Count - missed a key typing. You know the type of thing. Happens to anyone and everyone).
# Posted on September 24th 2003 by greenman
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
No, the answer we were looking for is "chortle", a cellists chortle.
# Posted on September 24th 2003 by irish ruff
Oooops, sorry greenman ...
... you're right, that lot should rightly have been dumped in irish ruff's lap! Sincere apologies. "things you've said on threads ... ", indeed! And, to go by my own meager experience, he was wrong about the drummers.
# Posted on September 24th 2003 by nastyweegirl
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
Ouch!
# Posted on September 24th 2003 by irish ruff
Re: what is a drummer's d*ck?
irish ruff - not so much ouch! as eh?! hmmphh!
# Posted on September 25th 2003 by nastyweegirl
# Posted on September 25th 2003 by nastyweegirl
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
yes nasty, you are good.... reminds me of my ex-wife... I open my mouth, and promptly receive a pummeling. all that remains is to flee towards a neutral corner, and hope that you don't follow me...
# Posted on September 25th 2003 by irish ruff
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
Bof! not the old "ex-wife" jibe! By all means, take to your corner. The acoustics are better there. No harm intended, heaven knows. Never pummelled anyone in ma puff.
# Posted on September 25th 2003 by nastyweegirl
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
Good heavens, you must be a terror when you're actually angry, Karen. ;)
# Posted on September 25th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
In my locale the F word can be used for almost any part of speech.
Thus "who does the fu*king fu*ker think he's fu*king with" or
" that fu*king fu*kwhit, fu*ked the fu*king fu*kers wife".
I don't think you could say that in any other language.
TTFN
PP
# Posted on September 25th 2003 by Pied Piper
Terror?
I don't hardly know ... it's been so long. I suspect I lose the power of speech altogether when I'm really riled. Tant mieux.
# Posted on September 25th 2003 by nastyweegirl
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
That's so interesting, PP. Not sure I like sweary sessions.
# Posted on September 25th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
You know what gets me, though? If I'm absolutely angry, I cry out of sheer inability to let what I really want to say out, and then I look like some fecking wimpy girl, which makes me even angrier... LOL
# Posted on September 25th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
Well, we often come over all angry rather than admit we're feeling hurt, so maybe sometimes you're better off having a good cry. No need to get angry with yourself for that. Anybody calls you wimpy or manipulative, f*ck 'em.
# Posted on September 25th 2003 by nastyweegirl
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck? What about a tinkers breakfast?
i first heard the fiddlers ***k epression used by my father on many occasions though it was often accompanied by or replaced by mokeys b*ll*x.
In an unrelated incident i once refered to my fathers brother as a monkeys uncle just moments before i actually realised the faux paus (is that how its spelt?) nature of my statement and too late to stop it boomeranging back on me. Boomerang , now there was a horse that could jump for ireland, though i cant remember the name of the rider, they done us proud.
Anyway 'a tinkers breakfast' ...answers on a postcard if ye want. but does anyone know the true meaning of this expression??? Best had on a sunday morining before going back to sleep.
# Posted on September 25th 2003 by litmusicsock
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
A verbal pummeling, not a physical one. When the vitriol starts falling around my ears, the effect is just as damaging as a blow to the nose. I pummeled a bloke once, rather, it was just one blow in a brief bar scuffle over a rude remark to my friend. Years ago. Horrid! Swore me off of the physical violence forever.
Ps - wot in a fiddlers f**k is a tinker anyway? A shoemaker, no thats a cobbler, a barrelmaker, no that's a cooper.
# Posted on September 25th 2003 by irish ruff
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
A "tinker" is a travelling person who fixes things made of metal, like pots and such. They were generally Travellers (Pavee) in Ireland. It's an insult to call someone a Tinker in a certain tone of voice, which probably tells you all you need to know.
Karen, I think you're giving me credit for being a much nicer person than I in fact am. In real life, I'm fighting to hold my tongue, because I've a vicious mouth on me if I'm not careful. If I let it all out, no one would ever speak to me again! So it's frustration making me cry, really. LOL
# Posted on September 25th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
I still don't get this "fick" thing. Is a fick the technical name for that block of rosin , or for a well-known psychiatric problem specific to fiddlers?
# Posted on September 25th 2003 by greenman
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
It's the equivalent of a PIN number - you know, a Personal Identification Number number: people say "number" again, not realising it's contained in the abbreviation PIN.
So it is with fick (properly spelled fic), which is a fiddler's tic, a particular nervous tic brought about by the subtle pressure of the naked fiddle (ie no shoulder rest) on the collarbone over years of fiddling; people say fiddler's fic/fick because they don't realise that the F in fic/fick is for fiddler, and so "fiddler's" is redundant.
Cue a shower of redundant fiddler jokes from disgruntled shakey egg fingerers.
Interestingly, greenman, rumour has it (and for legal reasons, I would stress that this is allegation, pure) that there was a recipe a couple of centuries ago for a rosin which contained trace, nay, homeopathic, amounts of a bodhran player's blood.
# Posted on September 25th 2003 by nastyweegirl
Zina - better to assume the best of people, than assume the worst and enter the twilight zone of self-fulfilling prophecy. That said (shrieks) if you ever let loose your vicious mouth on me- be afraid, be very afraid!
# Posted on September 25th 2003 by nastyweegirl
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
Nastyweegirl, that particular rosin sounds like the perfect thing for some fiddlers I've played with! Present company (in current session) excepted. :0)
# Posted on September 28th 2003 by greenman
P.S. I wasn't GOING TO post tunes in ABC notation here. Were any of you going to? Shame on you! Us drummers prefer counting...
# Posted on September 28th 2003 by greenman
...up to about 4 I can manage. You can cheat by going "1 and 2 and 3 and 4" and I'll still be with you.
# Posted on September 28th 2003 by greenman
Re: what is a Fiddlers F*ck?
Yes, a tinker was one, who among other things, made copper cooking utensils. A pot for example was assembled from flat sheets being bent and then the side seam and the bottom parts which mated were cut into dovetail joints which were pounded with a hammer to fit them together, making a *tinking* sound. To make the joints liquid tight they were then soldered, or filled with molten zinc. Copper boilers for moonshine distillation are still made this way (how do I know that?) When a tinker needed the molten metal to flow into a difficult area, a *tinker's dam* was constructed, of clay or some other malleable but nonflammable material, so as to allow the molten metal to fill a hollow.
Chris
# Posted on October 4th 2003 by unique