I learned in pretty well the same way you did greenman.
I've built up a repertoire of techniques over the years, which mostly use the natural harmonics of the skin, with a relatively sparse (by modern standards) patterns and off the beet bits.
I play regularly at Sessions and am fairly happy with what I do, but I did go through a phase a few years back of thinking my playing was a bit samey and predictable. I don't think this was an issue of technique; it was more a reflection of my psychological state at the time.
Letting things work out for them selves is a good idea, I think most of my skills developed that way.
This Top end your on about green. Is it a JJ Kelly kind of funky style/off the beat? I'm from Galway city, been playing around a year & half. The sessions are bloody topnotch, some ferocious, some mellow, all brilliant. The one's I play with are anyway! I taught meself to play and took it slowly, totally respecting the ceoil of the musicians.
Ya get evenings like that Piper, when it's leadr
Hi greenman, where ya been? Trying to start a bodhran only thread on this forum, is like walking down the street with one of those signs taped to your back by a prankster that say "kick me here". We'll see how this goes. I know quite a bit about Seamous O'Kane's new system. There was the original design which was "prototyped", and now, after two months, there is a new and improved design. It is all about being able to tune the entire drum from a single point. Convienient, yes.... Brilliant, indeed, - but the fundamental is that Seamus makes great, great drums and that will never change no matter how they are tuned.
I have a favorite drum maker in your neighborhood.... Do you know Kevin O'Connell? He is not too well known but has 17 years of experience and makes a fantastic product. Quite different than anyone else. The most drum-like (tom-tom like) tone of all the makers. I have a lot of fun with them.... I own two, and have a third one on the way. (Yes, obsessive-compulsive).
On the playing styles and particularly, this newest top-end craze. I understand what they are getting at, and it is worth investigating as a part of the skills-set. I don't think is is particularly essential,... but why not? I look forward to learning more about it in detail and seeing where it leads me.
Colm Murphy is brilliant, and I practice along with his CD an bodhran-the Irish drum. I have been playing now for about 3 years and the thing, other than diligent practicing to CDs, that has helped me is watching, listening, and talking to other bodhranists. They have been quite helpful and I have been able to create my own style of play from watching the various types of techniques. Actually playing in the sessions, though, is in my opinion the only way to learn and improve, as you play along with others. I have only got encouragement and praise, which I hope means I don't need to find a penknife. Again, I have asked for advice on playing styles. I have been to many sessions where some bodhran players ruin the session by trying to put on a show. It is good to see this so I know what is accepted and how not to play. As well, hearing all the jokes and talk on cocky bodhran players can be intimidating. I like to keep a steady, rythmetic beat, with my own ornementation and play with the group, and not too loud either. When the piper or violinist, etc. has a solo or often during the beginning of a tune, I wait or play very lightly. I have great respect for all the musicians and feel lucky to be part of the music tradition and craic.
Playing in the sessions in Ireland has boosted my confidence in playing the bodhran and now I am quite relaxed when playing. However, I sometimes think about my playing styles and question it, but I think it is totally psychological and may be similar to a writer getting writer's block- you just have to play out of it. Now, when not in sessions, I like to begin my practicing without music to create or listen to different beats. Then, I try to put it with music, then slowly work it into a sesson. It is good to see what does and doesn't work.
God bless those patrons who buy the bodhranist a pint!
Yep! so far, so good. hey, to answer your question, I'm also an intuitive player, no training.... I went to a local "advanced" workshop once and they really had nothing going on. I'm going to connect with some local players and try to raise my own personal bar that way. My practice consists of just sitting with my drum when the mood strikes me, and tooling around with it, some would call it noodling, but I will get an idea for a pattern or a technique and just work on it, varying accents, sticking, speed, whatever. It's worked well for me so far. I have a long way to go, every time I get started on some concentrated practice, I expand my horizions with a flood of new ideas. I haven't written out any drum parts yet because the rhythm notation doesn't adequately describe the melodic aspects (plus, I'm lazy).... I am looking for a reasonable 4 track analog or maybe, a digital recorder to capture my ideas that way.
I'll also ask a question, Have any of you become seriously interested in playing with only your hand, and not using a tipper at all? Volume suffers, but then again, if the technique was pursured aggressively, it might have possibilities.
Ps- Kevin O'Connell is on the web under "drummaker".
Update, Kev is at "bodhranmaker"... http://www.bodhranmaker.com/ Check him out. He's awesome! Good point on the discomfort. My basic style is with an inverted wrist. I think it's called Kerry. I'm trying to relax my wrist to a straighter position. Similar to a guitar strum. In fact, I'm taking up the guitar for that reason, not to mention I like the instrument. I had the same tone arm strife as you, but that was a beginner syndrome I believe. It is not a problem now.
My bodhran is bar-less too, which I feel easier to play and gives more motion to my toning hand without the bar getting in the way. I also changed to a tuneable deep 16" drum, which allows me to use all of the drum and around the rim too. I have to concentrate on sitting straight, but I tend to get into the music and am moving with the rythyms. When playing everynight this summer for about 8 straight nights, towards the end my beating shoulder began to get stiff. But, I try to practice and play with my arms and wrists as relaxed as possible to avoid stiffing up or pains. I also practice sometimes to non-Irish music, especially hip hop or rap, as the rythyms are always full of soul, much like Irish music. It has helped create new beats and rythyms which I apply to Irish music. Sometimes, the wife complains when going to sleep and I lie there making a beat with my fingers on the matress. Maybe it is some kind of bodhran syndrome, where I always hear a beat even when away from the music..
I think that playing with your hand instead of a tipper is very old-school-traditional, like playing a washboard or spoons and bones. However, I have seen several pictures of Seamus doing it. That has to mean something. So greenman, what about the tone hand? I've been using my inside hand to slap and tap contrasting rhythms. There's a lot of potential there...
(Ps - when are one of the percussion or trad sites, going to open up a legit forum just for this drum? I've emailed the adiminstrators of that new site "Bodhran Wisdom, but so far, no reply). We need a real community forum to get the conversation going).
Mr. Ruff! The tone hand indeed! Did you read on the newsgroup about someone going to a Flook gig and being entirely convinced that JJK was using a backing-track! Someone else pointed out he was using his tone hand to get extra beats and sounds going.
You've been doing this then? Sounds great! Have to give it a try myself, but not just now - sleeping family wouldn't like it.
Recently I've been having a go at how Colm Murphy plays. Be interesting to hear how that comes out in my own playing somewhere down the line...
Yes, using the inside hand for actual beats instead of just mutes and tones is the way to go with bodhran, I'm convinced of it! (I'm talking about combinations of both, of course). I only recently started working one it. It is very complex. Like patting your head and rubbing your stomach at the same time - however - doing this with the same hand, not with two. But each time I work on it I improve, marginally. I'm sure I'm not the one who discovered it. In fact, I assumed everyone did it, it's so intuitive. That's what is needed here in the States, some Master Classes that the really developed players disclose their secrets. When i first started the drum set, there was none of this, now, there are hundreds of videos, numerous drum clinics. I've seen quite a few. But as yet, nothing on the bodhran... nada! There will come a time. And I'm just patiently working on my own limited skills. When the big day arrives. I'll be ready.
Is that Colm Murphy cd the older one with him in the cover holding a well tanned drum? I'm looking for something newer.
Another interloper here, lads. Well, not entirely. I do bang the skin on occasion, and I think when I'm on form my technique is not too bad, having in the past had a wander through a small bodhran tutor book. Enough to get some basics, and develop those. Certainly good enough to shut up the local Thumpers when I start.
My question is, don't you find it bloody tiring? Is it just me being not bodhran-fit, or over-tense, forcing myself to maintain rhythm, and to throw in as many double up- and down-strokes as possible?
I assume if you play it as yer primary instrument, you just get more relaxed as you go.
Double CD? nope, not the one i have, but yes, An Bodhran is the title. The search begins.
The frame drum is tiring, uniquely so, I haven't figured that out yet... probably because I don't play enough. Oddly, my tipper hand "falls asleep", I assume, from all the shaking. Bad form also, but I'm working on that. I could probably never play bodhran all night. My ideal situation would be like the drummer for the Young Dubliners. Some traditional bodhran tunes, some drum kit... some just sat out all together. Maybe one day. I'm looking!
I'm thinking the tone hand should have note bending and drum playing skills in combinations with the tipper hand. I used to play conga until I injured actual nerves from slapping the rim and had to quit (plus, minor surgery). But, I'm relating the 5 basic conga skills to the bodhran... The bass beat, the open-tone strike, the slap, and the mute which is just a tap with the heel of the palm remaining on the head, and the fingers fall, - and a palm heel-to finger tips rocking motion. This is just theoretical. But I can see it happening eventually.
Just signed up to the site and I'm very impressed. I'm also lucky enough to know and played with JJK on the Manchester session scene for a number of years. I cant say for sure but having watched him play, I don't think he uses his skin hand to play beats. We in Manchester are blessed with another truly unique player - Vinnie Short. He often plays with just his hand. I've been playing for many years myself and tried to emulate Vinnie's hand playing tecnique to no avail. In terms of the top end thang, my playing really suffered as a result of trying to develop this style. I returned to the more traditional way of playing and my confidence and ability returned. Go with what you know!!
That is an interesting remark about Vinnie Short and the fact that he plays with his hand... no tipper. Why does he do that? I wonder, because it implies that a tipper might not be required with enough practice. Other than using the tipper the famous triplets which are hard to do with just the hand... But then, that is where the tone hand comes in, and if you get the timing right, the third beat can be played from the back, just like you would do drumming triplets on a table.
It's not that important, using a tipper or not, I'm just trying to explore the boundries of the drum in common use out there.
I have other questions about JJK... Wondering what he does, uniquely, that makes him so highly regarded. I've listened to him, and is seems to me that is is his mastery of articulation and dynamics... What do you think?
The fella(sorry, dont know his name off-hand) out of Kila seems to use a tipper of sorts in both hands.Using a large heavy beater at the back.Nearly like a bass drum sort of thing.
As for the hand getting tired, just exercise your wrist a lot.
Just my tuppence worth.
Hi Irish Ruff.
Vinnie doesn't only play with his hand, he also uses a tipper as well. Incidently, JJK developed a new style of tipper that both Vinnie and myself now use. Basically, it is collection of softened wodden kebab skewers held together in the middle. It produces a real soft shuffle sound.
Thanks Martin. Please check this site below. The maker is David Draeger. He has some ideas you would probably be interested it!... Especially the click tip and the bundle, as you describe.
Yes, you and JJK use the skewers. But I'm also aware of a long thin tipper that's used in top end style. Looks like a 7A drumstick minus the tip. I hear JJK playing some neat little buzz rolls with it, as well as that famous loud "POP" that he developed to end a phrase.
I've heard Ronan on the Kila album Tog e o Bog e. He's a most powerful drummer. It's hard to isolate his bodhran percussion from the rest of the group. They, Kila, are very percussion intensive, with almost everything thrown in. I'm trying hard to imagine how he plays with a tipper in both hands.
I did not know Seanus made tippers. In fact, his web site says specifically that he does not! I have heard that he personally prefers/ or at least enjoys a tipper made from holly twigs..... Is that right. Holly twigs?
Me, I would love one of those twig tippers and a bundle type made of those heavy synthetic nylon rods. The wooden skewers don't have enough thump for me.
Your recent post about having a tipper made of nylon rods for weight and more thump is interesting. Earlier in this thread, you mentioned having problems with your tipping hand sometimes. Do you prefer heavier tippers in general? Any connection?
As a novice, I played in a session at Bromyard Folk Festival in the 1980s with another drummer who was way ahead of me. He was playing with a long thin straight fairly light tipper. We chatted. He helped me hear where syncopation could come in (I was just playing the notes, more or less).
But I as soon as I could I got hold of an ordinary drumstick, trimmes it straight, and have been playing with it ever since until I got my smaller O'Kane. Nowadays my regular tipper is a smaller straight thin ebony one from the Belgarth people.
The point being, I've been playing with lighter beaters and had no beating-hand problems. Even though I have to be more physical to get the tone and volume. Maybe the tone's different with the extra attack at times.
And what makes JJK unique? For me it's not just his articulation and dynamics, it's how he and Flook blend together. And to me, that's the key to good bodhr
Hey greenman, you've been playing since the 80's, that is a lot of experience. Have you ever run into a Charlie Byrne drum in all that time?
On the tippers, I'm always experimenting, I have a couple different drums and actually have a preferred tipper for each one. Some work and sound best with the thin, light ones and one drum, an 18" Belgarth with a very thick skin sounds best to me with a heavy tipper. I think the tradition was with those heavy mallet types. I've seen some monsters, but they are exausting, and you don't get the fine ornamentation, but you do get volume. The light sticks are becoming more common. I look forward to an upcomming move that I will have access to a shop space. I plan to play around with shaping various lengths, weights and woods of drumsticks, regular drumsticks like you've used to find my own top end style. Each tipper I use leads me in new and different directions.
Good answer on the JJK question.
This thread is almost "sunk". When they slip off the front page they get really quiet. I hope you will lake the lead in keeping a new and fresh 'bodhran only' topic on the site so we can continue and gather interesting remarks from around the globe... Will you?
I'm just catching up on the threads after being away for a few days and would like to chip in my few pennies worth.
- on tired hands and heavy tippers, I have a home made tipper with padding on the ends - like a timpany drumstick, and though it gives a really nice muted soft sound the added weight makes my thumb tired after a tune or two. My normal tipper is very light and my hand never gets tired.
On JJ - we took our two small boys two a festival in Dumfries principally to see Flook and we had the two lads on our sholders right in the front row - my small boy who is 6 has a 9 inch bodhran and loves to play - to see his face as he heard all his favorite flook tunes is a memory that will stay with me for a long time. JJ was fantastic and I agree totally with what you guys say about why his playing is so fantastic. Its how his playing blends in and fits so well with the other three that is really special. I did see him use his tone hand to slap the inside of the drum, but only once and that was to add like a full stop to the end of a tune. And yes the idea of a backing track that was talked about on another group is absolutly absurd - as someone pointed out Sarah Allan can get a really deep percusive tone from her flute that is much more apparent when seen live than on their recordings.
On Tippers, just ordered a couple from Belgarth and can only recommend them, very friendly and took alot of troube to get exactly what I wanted over the phone.
On playing by feel/technique, when I started I learnt a whole lot of riffs, and would play them in blocks through the tune. now though, I find that what I play just kind of happens, just kind of relax and let it flow - am interested to hear that others find the same. Does anyone have any particular practice techniques? like playing scales or arpegios on a melody insrtument? for example I play just a straight set of four bars 4/4 time and put in a skip at the second beat for the second set than skip the third beat for the next etc. I think it helps to keep good time - what do you guy's think?
Greenman - do you remember the wee posting to the yahoo group about the penknife? That was really a wee homage to you, as had just come across and had many laughs at your postings on this site. Even had a green man reference in the text, thought you would run with it, wasn't meant to be plageristic! (if there is such a word)
and we slipped of the page - is that the end of the wee bodhran thread!! like a solo at the end of the show, its the bit you like best but have to wait almost a whole show for the next one!!!
I have a technique I need help with. Playing on the rim. It is s huge weakness for me. I just can't get a decent angle for a strike. It's probably due to the the way I hold my tipper. I really like the sound of occasional rim clicks though. Do most drummers use the rim or do you restrict your playing to the skin. How do you accomplish it?
Speaking for myself I find that I can only do rim shots on the up stroke, so jigs is where I do most of em - I move my arm down the drum and over lap the edge.
However have started to put in a single shot at the change of tunes in a set. To be honest am not that sure how it happens, what it feels like is the tipper arm going low past the bottom of the drum and flying up, after a kind of pause - does that make sense? As to when it happens, well it just does (not always in the right place) It comes down to the "feel" that was talked about earlier, I don't count the beats, and I play at several different sessions that all have different rules, well actually there are no rules, folk just do what they want and from any source, Irish, Scottish, Cape Breton - there is evan a guy who plays incredible blues on the moothie - what do you think, does it all just happen or do you count?
Hey, Charlie!!! I'm with you. This thread has been most enjoyable.
Clunk:
Some of us (me, myself and I) are reading and enjoying the thread quietly in the background because the computer spirits continually refuse to post my comments. If this goes through, it will be the first time in 4 tries over the last week.
Great discussion! By the way, any comments on O'Kane vs Alfonso drums--sound, handling, durability, differences in the way they are made? I've got an Alfonso (nice drum) and interested in getting an O'Kane.
Mr. Ruff, I tried putting this discussion back on the first page, but it wasn't allowed. So we'll probably be speaking amongst ourselves for now unless anyone looks for us. Nice to see you got on at last, Linda!
I'm same as you, Clunk with the rimshots on the upstroke. Sometimes i'll turn the drum and just play a tune on the rim, with both ends of the tipper going, was that what you meant?
I know about the rim click on the upstroke. I am interested in taking the tipper all the way off the head and doing little fluorishes on the wood. Where I'm at right now with it is on that little neatherland section between drum head and rim. It works well on O'Kane drums because that taped section provides a good surface. I am talking to my friend Kevin O'Connell about making the edge of his tone ring and drumshell radiused, sort of angled inward, so that the head tension is supplied by the inner edge of the ring and not the outer, If it's shaped at a 45% angle there will be a nice section of skin covered shell to strike. I don't know if this makes sense. And Kev hasn't reacted to my queries yet.
Linda, I would actually think O'Kanes and Alphonso drums would be very similar. Mostly due to the thinness and depth of the shell. I believe both makers can vary the drum head thickness quite a bit and that is where all the difference would be. My older O'Kane has a paper thin lambeg head and that drum can ping. One day, I'm going to learn how to play a recognizable melody on it,. But right now, my practices involve just learning different tone hand positions well eonugh to obtain discernable notes, and I have only "mastered" (may I dare say), a very few really good notes! I need at least an octave before I start getting any big ambitions.
Irish ruff - thought you would ken a boot the jig shots but had typed and deleted so much stuff cos I thought it was either patronising or just a load of b**llsh1t that if I din't end up putting something down there would have been no reply which I reckon was worse.
That bit about your inward curved rim makes perfect sense, had a look at my drum and realised what I had thought of as a curve in the tone ring was not wood but skin - narrow but definatley with a differrent noise than the rim or the skin.Its too narroow for me to hit consistently but the kind of random clicks sounds cool. Can just hear the fiddlers turning purple with rage at the thought of random clicks!!
Regarding rim shot flourish ( you get ointment for that at the chemist ) I have tried it but it is so loud, and as hard as I push on the back of the rim the tone doesn't change at all.......so all you get is a loud clackety clack that can only be varied with triplets, skips and back beat variations. My own opinion is that I think that it is just too loud to go with tunes and prefer all the variation that you get with playing the skin - and its gonna be eons before I get an octave!!!
hello Linda - I have an O'Kane and its great, you get all the bibby bobby stuff near the rim, yet miss none of the deep boomy soul stirring drive at bottom end of the ( I was going to type Tonal Range but that sounds like I ken what I'm speaking aboot) Have never seen an Alfonso so would not be able to compare.
Greenman I can do almost the whole alphabet AND count, but hey, I'm a bodhran player, you can't expect me to do both at the same time!!
Certainly, rim shots do not work well in most tunes. I play A LOT just by myself on bodhran rudiments, experimentals, as a guitar or fiddle would. The rim is great in this context. You walk the tipper from the center, to the edge and beyond. As you said, this allows more ability to express when you're playing in a group or at session. Less focused on a certain pattern, more articulate, faster than a speeding whistle, able to leap tall pint glasses in a single bound.
Irish ruff we see through your disguise - for you are Bodhran Man - leaping into phone box's to change into costume, all black with a glow in the dark bodhran and atomic tipper, allways ready to help fiddlers in distress, the noble keeper of the beat.
I reckon that one at a time is a good rule for two reasons, you don't cancel each other out - like putting in a skip when the other guy is putting in a beat. And cos the other musicians can see that you are playing nice and can relax!!
However there are always exceptions to rules. What do you think about two badhrans going at the same time, one steady plain and low, the other top end and ornamental? And what if there is a djembe? is it only one drum at a time or only one bodhran. I know that it depends on the size of the session and if it is stricktly trad then there should't be any djembies - anyone got any tips/stories about playing with said drums? We have a french guy that some times comes turns up and he is amazing, I tend to lust listen. Another djembie turns up and plays every tune all night - he plays to a good level but I personally wish he would take his turn.
Was also wandering what else you guys play? and if so do you find that wrestling with the melody eats into your drum practice time?
Reckon that only hardened bodhran folk would go back to page three so if you are out there - what do you reckon???
The second part, the visual imagery, is hilarious,... bulldog chewing a wasp. I don't get the first part. "for lust read just". Sounds poetic, or metaphorical. Dude, I cannot stand djembe's. They sound ok, but the players look like groping apes. No place with flutes and fiddles. Anybody that would play a djembe would also be self absorbed eonugh to play in a session all night long. After the 2nd or 3rd pint, we - the djembe player - would have a man to man talk.
Good questions on two players and the like. It takes two kindred souls to play double. Involve one player with a big ego or a compulsion to be the star of the show and it's ruined.
I would like somebody to post another simple, private bodhran topic on the front page please. We are entitied to have one front page topic going at al times. I can't. My name, irish ruff, is like waving a red cape in front of a bull. I have had unabashed skirmishes with the drum critics. They are laying in wiat for me. he, he, he....
Irish ruff, am going away for a few days and after missing the begining of this thread, am loath to post something now and then catch it up second hand when I get back.
btw isn't this just the best site out? have been stuck inside with the flu today and spent it all trolling thru the archives of this site. have had the internet for a few years and not really got into it untill I found this site, now my evenings are spent either practising or reading all the clever, entertaining and funny stuff at this place.
topics for a front page post - I particularly enjoyed greenmans posting about the correct way to accompany the bodhran - lol!! but seriously I reckon that most folk (Mr Gill excepted) enjoy good bodhran playing - but what exactly is that? it's hard to find your own style when there is no definate way of playing. for example the fiddlers have such a wealth of stuff to choose from, what I mean is someone can dedicate years to playing in a 1920's fiddle style - and then find there own way of playing that style. So how do you play bodhran the way you want to when there is such a stigma attached? och mechty the wine is kicking in with the flu tabs and I'm rambling.
So will think about it over the weekend and see how brave I am when I get back. btw who do you like to listen to, have got Def Shepherd on the phones just know and Mark Maguire is the new bodhran player - fab.
cheers clunk - maried to an accountant and scarer of trout with fur and feather!!!!!
clunk, sorry bout the flu! It is our season now, I am looking for a "flu shot"... preventative maintenance. greenman, it's easy to get he group involved in drum topics. this was a first, to have a chance to chat. first page, last page, no matter.
I'll say this modestly/proudly.... I have "conceived" of my own style on bodhran. It's a unique concept that nobody's done yet, that I know about. Maybe nobody would want to, - I certainly don't care - but I'm excited. I am still about a year away from taking it on the road. I have several equipment hurdles. But I'm doing well enough on the gear that I have. I'm debating design plans for a tweaked drum, which includes a modified shell configuration, possibly a new skin type and even a unique beater. The more I work on the playing style, the more the concept becomes concrete in my mind. I'm not ready to roll it out yet, in writing, I don't want to endure any criticism and possibly get discouraged but this was just to answer clunk's question about being stigmatized. That was me and my drumming 20 years ago, now, "I does what I wants".
Greenman, I'm looking for something with a tapered rim. I think a wood worker would call it "radiused" . Hard to describe, but current rims on our drums are made wiht a right angle, rin to the head.., perpendicular, like an L , I want something that has three inches of 45% angle between the head and the rim. And the tacks on the rim pas the 45%.... I an just looking for the right maker to commission one. Kev. O'Connell has the right rim thickness, but is he very rote in his designs. I've asked him, but he just doesn't "get it". My current plas is to buy a drum shell and have it modified be a woodworker, then, send it to someone who will skin it.
Regards, ruff..
No, I got the idea from the internal reinforcing rings that are used on drums. There is a concept, or rather design technique of modern drums called the "bearing edge". Not many bodhran makers have experimented around with it. Bearing edges require radiused edges, so that the portion of the drum shell or the rim come to a
Bodhr
Bodhr
Hello Fellow Goatwhackers!
Has anyone got any news about the new tuning gizmo Seamus O'Kane has been working on?
There's a load of discussion on the bodhr
# Posted on September 21st 2003 by greenman
Re: Bodhr
I learned in pretty well the same way you did greenman.
I've built up a repertoire of techniques over the years, which mostly use the natural harmonics of the skin, with a relatively sparse (by modern standards) patterns and off the beet bits.
I play regularly at Sessions and am fairly happy with what I do, but I did go through a phase a few years back of thinking my playing was a bit samey and predictable. I don't think this was an issue of technique; it was more a reflection of my psychological state at the time.
Letting things work out for them selves is a good idea, I think most of my skills developed that way.
TTFN
PP
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by Pied Piper
Re: Bodhr
This Top end your on about green. Is it a JJ Kelly kind of funky style/off the beat? I'm from Galway city, been playing around a year & half. The sessions are bloody topnotch, some ferocious, some mellow, all brilliant. The one's I play with are anyway! I taught meself to play and took it slowly, totally respecting the ceoil of the musicians.
Ya get evenings like that Piper, when it's leadr
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by jdcorcra
Re: Bodhr
Hi greenman, where ya been? Trying to start a bodhran only thread on this forum, is like walking down the street with one of those signs taped to your back by a prankster that say "kick me here". We'll see how this goes. I know quite a bit about Seamous O'Kane's new system. There was the original design which was "prototyped", and now, after two months, there is a new and improved design. It is all about being able to tune the entire drum from a single point. Convienient, yes.... Brilliant, indeed, - but the fundamental is that Seamus makes great, great drums and that will never change no matter how they are tuned.
I have a favorite drum maker in your neighborhood.... Do you know Kevin O'Connell? He is not too well known but has 17 years of experience and makes a fantastic product. Quite different than anyone else. The most drum-like (tom-tom like) tone of all the makers. I have a lot of fun with them.... I own two, and have a third one on the way. (Yes, obsessive-compulsive).
On the playing styles and particularly, this newest top-end craze. I understand what they are getting at, and it is worth investigating as a part of the skills-set. I don't think is is particularly essential,... but why not? I look forward to learning more about it in detail and seeing where it leads me.
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Bodhr
Colm Murphy is brilliant, and I practice along with his CD an bodhran-the Irish drum. I have been playing now for about 3 years and the thing, other than diligent practicing to CDs, that has helped me is watching, listening, and talking to other bodhranists. They have been quite helpful and I have been able to create my own style of play from watching the various types of techniques. Actually playing in the sessions, though, is in my opinion the only way to learn and improve, as you play along with others. I have only got encouragement and praise, which I hope means I don't need to find a penknife. Again, I have asked for advice on playing styles. I have been to many sessions where some bodhran players ruin the session by trying to put on a show. It is good to see this so I know what is accepted and how not to play. As well, hearing all the jokes and talk on cocky bodhran players can be intimidating. I like to keep a steady, rythmetic beat, with my own ornementation and play with the group, and not too loud either. When the piper or violinist, etc. has a solo or often during the beginning of a tune, I wait or play very lightly. I have great respect for all the musicians and feel lucky to be part of the music tradition and craic.
Playing in the sessions in Ireland has boosted my confidence in playing the bodhran and now I am quite relaxed when playing. However, I sometimes think about my playing styles and question it, but I think it is totally psychological and may be similar to a writer getting writer's block- you just have to play out of it. Now, when not in sessions, I like to begin my practicing without music to create or listen to different beats. Then, I try to put it with music, then slowly work it into a sesson. It is good to see what does and doesn't work.
God bless those patrons who buy the bodhranist a pint!
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by cassman
Re: Bodhr
Hello all of you and thanks for your thoughts! All of us so far seem to have picked up our playing intuitively. But the only bodhr
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by greenman
Hey! No bits-of-paper-stuck-on-the-back-kickings, yet!
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by greenman
Re: Bodhr
Yep! so far, so good. hey, to answer your question, I'm also an intuitive player, no training.... I went to a local "advanced" workshop once and they really had nothing going on. I'm going to connect with some local players and try to raise my own personal bar that way. My practice consists of just sitting with my drum when the mood strikes me, and tooling around with it, some would call it noodling, but I will get an idea for a pattern or a technique and just work on it, varying accents, sticking, speed, whatever. It's worked well for me so far. I have a long way to go, every time I get started on some concentrated practice, I expand my horizions with a flood of new ideas. I haven't written out any drum parts yet because the rhythm notation doesn't adequately describe the melodic aspects (plus, I'm lazy).... I am looking for a reasonable 4 track analog or maybe, a digital recorder to capture my ideas that way.
I'll also ask a question, Have any of you become seriously interested in playing with only your hand, and not using a tipper at all? Volume suffers, but then again, if the technique was pursured aggressively, it might have possibilities.
Ps- Kevin O'Connell is on the web under "drummaker".
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Bodhr
Had a go, but the tipper does it for me. Here's another question for us all...Does playing the bodhr
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by greenman
Re: Bodhr
Update, Kev is at "bodhranmaker"... http://www.bodhranmaker.com/ Check him out. He's awesome! Good point on the discomfort. My basic style is with an inverted wrist. I think it's called Kerry. I'm trying to relax my wrist to a straighter position. Similar to a guitar strum. In fact, I'm taking up the guitar for that reason, not to mention I like the instrument. I had the same tone arm strife as you, but that was a beginner syndrome I believe. It is not a problem now.
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Bodhr
My bodhran is bar-less too, which I feel easier to play and gives more motion to my toning hand without the bar getting in the way. I also changed to a tuneable deep 16" drum, which allows me to use all of the drum and around the rim too. I have to concentrate on sitting straight, but I tend to get into the music and am moving with the rythyms. When playing everynight this summer for about 8 straight nights, towards the end my beating shoulder began to get stiff. But, I try to practice and play with my arms and wrists as relaxed as possible to avoid stiffing up or pains. I also practice sometimes to non-Irish music, especially hip hop or rap, as the rythyms are always full of soul, much like Irish music. It has helped create new beats and rythyms which I apply to Irish music. Sometimes, the wife complains when going to sleep and I lie there making a beat with my fingers on the matress. Maybe it is some kind of bodhran syndrome, where I always hear a beat even when away from the music..
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by cassman
Re: Bodhr
I think that playing with your hand instead of a tipper is very old-school-traditional, like playing a washboard or spoons and bones. However, I have seen several pictures of Seamus doing it. That has to mean something. So greenman, what about the tone hand? I've been using my inside hand to slap and tap contrasting rhythms. There's a lot of potential there...
(Ps - when are one of the percussion or trad sites, going to open up a legit forum just for this drum? I've emailed the adiminstrators of that new site "Bodhran Wisdom, but so far, no reply). We need a real community forum to get the conversation going).
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Bodhr
Mr. Ruff! The tone hand indeed! Did you read on the newsgroup about someone going to a Flook gig and being entirely convinced that JJK was using a backing-track! Someone else pointed out he was using his tone hand to get extra beats and sounds going.
You've been doing this then? Sounds great! Have to give it a try myself, but not just now - sleeping family wouldn't like it.
Recently I've been having a go at how Colm Murphy plays. Be interesting to hear how that comes out in my own playing somewhere down the line...
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by greenman
Re: Bodhr
Yes, using the inside hand for actual beats instead of just mutes and tones is the way to go with bodhran, I'm convinced of it! (I'm talking about combinations of both, of course). I only recently started working one it. It is very complex. Like patting your head and rubbing your stomach at the same time - however - doing this with the same hand, not with two. But each time I work on it I improve, marginally. I'm sure I'm not the one who discovered it. In fact, I assumed everyone did it, it's so intuitive. That's what is needed here in the States, some Master Classes that the really developed players disclose their secrets. When i first started the drum set, there was none of this, now, there are hundreds of videos, numerous drum clinics. I've seen quite a few. But as yet, nothing on the bodhran... nada! There will come a time. And I'm just patiently working on my own limited skills. When the big day arrives. I'll be ready.
Is that Colm Murphy cd the older one with him in the cover holding a well tanned drum? I'm looking for something newer.
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by irish ruff
Harrumph.
Well, it *says* "Bodhran only", so why should we bother coming in to rain on your parade(s)? *grin*
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Bodhr
Hey Zina! Because we'd really like to hear from you tune-players what it is you appreciate from our playing together (being presumptious!).
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by greenman
Mr. Ruff
Yes it's that one. Probably. An Bodhr
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by greenman
Re: Bodhr
Another interloper here, lads. Well, not entirely. I do bang the skin on occasion, and I think when I'm on form my technique is not too bad, having in the past had a wander through a small bodhran tutor book. Enough to get some basics, and develop those. Certainly good enough to shut up the local Thumpers when I start.
My question is, don't you find it bloody tiring? Is it just me being not bodhran-fit, or over-tense, forcing myself to maintain rhythm, and to throw in as many double up- and down-strokes as possible?
I assume if you play it as yer primary instrument, you just get more relaxed as you go.
danny
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Bodhr
Double CD? nope, not the one i have, but yes, An Bodhran is the title. The search begins.
The frame drum is tiring, uniquely so, I haven't figured that out yet... probably because I don't play enough. Oddly, my tipper hand "falls asleep", I assume, from all the shaking. Bad form also, but I'm working on that. I could probably never play bodhran all night. My ideal situation would be like the drummer for the Young Dubliners. Some traditional bodhran tunes, some drum kit... some just sat out all together. Maybe one day. I'm looking!
I'm thinking the tone hand should have note bending and drum playing skills in combinations with the tipper hand. I used to play conga until I injured actual nerves from slapping the rim and had to quit (plus, minor surgery). But, I'm relating the 5 basic conga skills to the bodhran... The bass beat, the open-tone strike, the slap, and the mute which is just a tap with the heel of the palm remaining on the head, and the fingers fall, - and a palm heel-to finger tips rocking motion. This is just theoretical. But I can see it happening eventually.
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Bodhr
An Bodhr
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by greenman
Re: Bodhr
Just signed up to the site and I'm very impressed. I'm also lucky enough to know and played with JJK on the Manchester session scene for a number of years. I cant say for sure but having watched him play, I don't think he uses his skin hand to play beats. We in Manchester are blessed with another truly unique player - Vinnie Short. He often plays with just his hand. I've been playing for many years myself and tried to emulate Vinnie's hand playing tecnique to no avail. In terms of the top end thang, my playing really suffered as a result of trying to develop this style. I returned to the more traditional way of playing and my confidence and ability returned. Go with what you know!!
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by Martinm
Re: Bodhr
The Slapping with the tone hand is a major feature of Robbie Walsh's style in Galway. There's perfect bodhr
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by jdcorcra
Re: Bodhr
Genuine interest here - is the so-called JJK *top end* style done with the bottom end of the tipper on the upper half of the drum? I love that sound.
Jim
# Posted on September 24th 2003 by Worldfiddler
Re: Bodhr
I thought it was to do with a style developed in the Northern Territory...the Top End as it's locally known.....
Hmm... better wait for the ANZACs to sober up and come on line for that remark to be appreciated...
DM
# Posted on September 24th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Bodhr
Mr. Dorans, you're spot on. With the regular skirmish to the Lower End to keep a pulse or do ornamentation.
Mr. Domhniaill, would that be the Northern Territory of Manchester - Crumpsall and the like?!! What's with these Manc bodhr
# Posted on September 24th 2003 by greenman
Re: Bodhr
Hi "Martinm", welcome to the site.
That is an interesting remark about Vinnie Short and the fact that he plays with his hand... no tipper. Why does he do that? I wonder, because it implies that a tipper might not be required with enough practice. Other than using the tipper the famous triplets which are hard to do with just the hand... But then, that is where the tone hand comes in, and if you get the timing right, the third beat can be played from the back, just like you would do drumming triplets on a table.
It's not that important, using a tipper or not, I'm just trying to explore the boundries of the drum in common use out there.
I have other questions about JJK... Wondering what he does, uniquely, that makes him so highly regarded. I've listened to him, and is seems to me that is is his mastery of articulation and dynamics... What do you think?
# Posted on September 24th 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Bodhr
The fella(sorry, dont know his name off-hand) out of Kila seems to use a tipper of sorts in both hands.Using a large heavy beater at the back.Nearly like a bass drum sort of thing.
As for the hand getting tired, just exercise your wrist a lot.
Just my tuppence worth.
# Posted on September 24th 2003 by B
Re: Bodhr
Hi Irish Ruff.
Vinnie doesn't only play with his hand, he also uses a tipper as well. Incidently, JJK developed a new style of tipper that both Vinnie and myself now use. Basically, it is collection of softened wodden kebab skewers held together in the middle. It produces a real soft shuffle sound.
# Posted on September 24th 2003 by Martinm
Re: Bodhr
Thanks Martin. Please check this site below. The maker is David Draeger. He has some ideas you would probably be interested it!... Especially the click tip and the bundle, as you describe.
\http://www.besttippers.com/bodhran_tippers_002.htm
Yes, you and JJK use the skewers. But I'm also aware of a long thin tipper that's used in top end style. Looks like a 7A drumstick minus the tip. I hear JJK playing some neat little buzz rolls with it, as well as that famous loud "POP" that he developed to end a phrase.
What drum are you playing lately?
# Posted on September 25th 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Bodhr
The Leadvocal\bodhr
# Posted on September 25th 2003 by jdcorcra
Re: Bodhr
I've heard Ronan on the Kila album Tog e o Bog e. He's a most powerful drummer. It's hard to isolate his bodhran percussion from the rest of the group. They, Kila, are very percussion intensive, with almost everything thrown in. I'm trying hard to imagine how he plays with a tipper in both hands.
I did not know Seanus made tippers. In fact, his web site says specifically that he does not! I have heard that he personally prefers/ or at least enjoys a tipper made from holly twigs..... Is that right. Holly twigs?
Me, I would love one of those twig tippers and a bundle type made of those heavy synthetic nylon rods. The wooden skewers don't have enough thump for me.
# Posted on September 25th 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Bodhr
Dear Mr. Ruff,
Your recent post about having a tipper made of nylon rods for weight and more thump is interesting. Earlier in this thread, you mentioned having problems with your tipping hand sometimes. Do you prefer heavier tippers in general? Any connection?
As a novice, I played in a session at Bromyard Folk Festival in the 1980s with another drummer who was way ahead of me. He was playing with a long thin straight fairly light tipper. We chatted. He helped me hear where syncopation could come in (I was just playing the notes, more or less).
But I as soon as I could I got hold of an ordinary drumstick, trimmes it straight, and have been playing with it ever since until I got my smaller O'Kane. Nowadays my regular tipper is a smaller straight thin ebony one from the Belgarth people.
The point being, I've been playing with lighter beaters and had no beating-hand problems. Even though I have to be more physical to get the tone and volume. Maybe the tone's different with the extra attack at times.
Hey! Good to talk with you all!
# Posted on September 25th 2003 by greenman
And what makes JJK unique? For me it's not just his articulation and dynamics, it's how he and Flook blend together. And to me, that's the key to good bodhr
# Posted on September 25th 2003 by greenman
Re: Bodhr
Hey greenman, you've been playing since the 80's, that is a lot of experience. Have you ever run into a Charlie Byrne drum in all that time?
On the tippers, I'm always experimenting, I have a couple different drums and actually have a preferred tipper for each one. Some work and sound best with the thin, light ones and one drum, an 18" Belgarth with a very thick skin sounds best to me with a heavy tipper. I think the tradition was with those heavy mallet types. I've seen some monsters, but they are exausting, and you don't get the fine ornamentation, but you do get volume. The light sticks are becoming more common. I look forward to an upcomming move that I will have access to a shop space. I plan to play around with shaping various lengths, weights and woods of drumsticks, regular drumsticks like you've used to find my own top end style. Each tipper I use leads me in new and different directions.
Good answer on the JJK question.
This thread is almost "sunk". When they slip off the front page they get really quiet. I hope you will lake the lead in keeping a new and fresh 'bodhran only' topic on the site so we can continue and gather interesting remarks from around the globe... Will you?
Best regards, ruff (Charlie C.)
# Posted on September 26th 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Bodhr
Playing since the late 80s, so not as long as maybe you imagine! Still, a few years under the belt I guess. Hadn't really thought about it!
I think your "horses for courses" comment re tippers for different bodhr
# Posted on September 26th 2003 by greenman
Re: Bodhr
I'm just catching up on the threads after being away for a few days and would like to chip in my few pennies worth.
- on tired hands and heavy tippers, I have a home made tipper with padding on the ends - like a timpany drumstick, and though it gives a really nice muted soft sound the added weight makes my thumb tired after a tune or two. My normal tipper is very light and my hand never gets tired.
On JJ - we took our two small boys two a festival in Dumfries principally to see Flook and we had the two lads on our sholders right in the front row - my small boy who is 6 has a 9 inch bodhran and loves to play - to see his face as he heard all his favorite flook tunes is a memory that will stay with me for a long time. JJ was fantastic and I agree totally with what you guys say about why his playing is so fantastic. Its how his playing blends in and fits so well with the other three that is really special. I did see him use his tone hand to slap the inside of the drum, but only once and that was to add like a full stop to the end of a tune. And yes the idea of a backing track that was talked about on another group is absolutly absurd - as someone pointed out Sarah Allan can get a really deep percusive tone from her flute that is much more apparent when seen live than on their recordings.
On Tippers, just ordered a couple from Belgarth and can only recommend them, very friendly and took alot of troube to get exactly what I wanted over the phone.
On playing by feel/technique, when I started I learnt a whole lot of riffs, and would play them in blocks through the tune. now though, I find that what I play just kind of happens, just kind of relax and let it flow - am interested to hear that others find the same. Does anyone have any particular practice techniques? like playing scales or arpegios on a melody insrtument? for example I play just a straight set of four bars 4/4 time and put in a skip at the second beat for the second set than skip the third beat for the next etc. I think it helps to keep good time - what do you guy's think?
Greenman - do you remember the wee posting to the yahoo group about the penknife? That was really a wee homage to you, as had just come across and had many laughs at your postings on this site. Even had a green man reference in the text, thought you would run with it, wasn't meant to be plageristic! (if there is such a word)
Realy enjoyed this thread - cheers.
# Posted on September 26th 2003 by clunk999
Re: Bodhr
Cheers for the kind words clunk. I missed the yahoo posting. Am I in that group? What planet am I on? Where's me bike gone?
# Posted on September 27th 2003 by greenman
Re: Bodhr
You're in the group but play very quiet!!!
# Posted on September 27th 2003 by clunk999
and we slipped of the page - is that the end of the wee bodhran thread!! like a solo at the end of the show, its the bit you like best but have to wait almost a whole show for the next one!!!
# Posted on September 27th 2003 by clunk999
Re: Bodhr
Clunk, I liked your enthusiasm!
I have a technique I need help with. Playing on the rim. It is s huge weakness for me. I just can't get a decent angle for a strike. It's probably due to the the way I hold my tipper. I really like the sound of occasional rim clicks though. Do most drummers use the rim or do you restrict your playing to the skin. How do you accomplish it?
# Posted on September 28th 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Bodhr
Speaking for myself I find that I can only do rim shots on the up stroke, so jigs is where I do most of em - I move my arm down the drum and over lap the edge.
However have started to put in a single shot at the change of tunes in a set. To be honest am not that sure how it happens, what it feels like is the tipper arm going low past the bottom of the drum and flying up, after a kind of pause - does that make sense? As to when it happens, well it just does (not always in the right place) It comes down to the "feel" that was talked about earlier, I don't count the beats, and I play at several different sessions that all have different rules, well actually there are no rules, folk just do what they want and from any source, Irish, Scottish, Cape Breton - there is evan a guy who plays incredible blues on the moothie - what do you think, does it all just happen or do you count?
# Posted on September 28th 2003 by clunk999
Re: Bodhr
Hey, Charlie!!! I'm with you. This thread has been most enjoyable.
Clunk:
Some of us (me, myself and I) are reading and enjoying the thread quietly in the background because the computer spirits continually refuse to post my comments. If this goes through, it will be the first time in 4 tries over the last week.
Great discussion! By the way, any comments on O'Kane vs Alfonso drums--sound, handling, durability, differences in the way they are made? I've got an Alfonso (nice drum) and interested in getting an O'Kane.
# Posted on September 28th 2003 by linda
Re: Bodhr
Hello all and thanks for kind remarks.
Mr. Ruff, I tried putting this discussion back on the first page, but it wasn't allowed. So we'll probably be speaking amongst ourselves for now unless anyone looks for us. Nice to see you got on at last, Linda!
I'm same as you, Clunk with the rimshots on the upstroke. Sometimes i'll turn the drum and just play a tune on the rim, with both ends of the tipper going, was that what you meant?
# Posted on September 28th 2003 by greenman
Re: Bodhr
I just lost a message I was trying to post.
# Posted on September 28th 2003 by greenman
I was saying, just got back from a gig with my band. I play electric guitar now but used to play bodhr
# Posted on September 28th 2003 by greenman
That was apropos of nothing in particular :0)
# Posted on September 28th 2003 by greenman
Re: Bodhr
I wasn't GOING to post tunes in ABC notation here. Were you? Shame on you! Us drummers prefer counting...
...up to about 4 I can manage. You can cheat by going "1 and 2 and 3 and 4" and I'll still be with you.
# Posted on September 28th 2003 by greenman
Re: Bodhr
I know about the rim click on the upstroke. I am interested in taking the tipper all the way off the head and doing little fluorishes on the wood. Where I'm at right now with it is on that little neatherland section between drum head and rim. It works well on O'Kane drums because that taped section provides a good surface. I am talking to my friend Kevin O'Connell about making the edge of his tone ring and drumshell radiused, sort of angled inward, so that the head tension is supplied by the inner edge of the ring and not the outer, If it's shaped at a 45% angle there will be a nice section of skin covered shell to strike. I don't know if this makes sense. And Kev hasn't reacted to my queries yet.
Linda, I would actually think O'Kanes and Alphonso drums would be very similar. Mostly due to the thinness and depth of the shell. I believe both makers can vary the drum head thickness quite a bit and that is where all the difference would be. My older O'Kane has a paper thin lambeg head and that drum can ping. One day, I'm going to learn how to play a recognizable melody on it,. But right now, my practices involve just learning different tone hand positions well eonugh to obtain discernable notes, and I have only "mastered" (may I dare say), a very few really good notes! I need at least an octave before I start getting any big ambitions.
# Posted on September 28th 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Bodhr
Irish ruff - thought you would ken a boot the jig shots but had typed and deleted so much stuff cos I thought it was either patronising or just a load of b**llsh1t that if I din't end up putting something down there would have been no reply which I reckon was worse.
That bit about your inward curved rim makes perfect sense, had a look at my drum and realised what I had thought of as a curve in the tone ring was not wood but skin - narrow but definatley with a differrent noise than the rim or the skin.Its too narroow for me to hit consistently but the kind of random clicks sounds cool. Can just hear the fiddlers turning purple with rage at the thought of random clicks!!
Regarding rim shot flourish ( you get ointment for that at the chemist ) I have tried it but it is so loud, and as hard as I push on the back of the rim the tone doesn't change at all.......so all you get is a loud clackety clack that can only be varied with triplets, skips and back beat variations. My own opinion is that I think that it is just too loud to go with tunes and prefer all the variation that you get with playing the skin - and its gonna be eons before I get an octave!!!
hello Linda - I have an O'Kane and its great, you get all the bibby bobby stuff near the rim, yet miss none of the deep boomy soul stirring drive at bottom end of the ( I was going to type Tonal Range but that sounds like I ken what I'm speaking aboot) Have never seen an Alfonso so would not be able to compare.
Greenman I can do almost the whole alphabet AND count, but hey, I'm a bodhran player, you can't expect me to do both at the same time!!
# Posted on September 28th 2003 by clunk999
Re: Bodhr
Certainly, rim shots do not work well in most tunes. I play A LOT just by myself on bodhran rudiments, experimentals, as a guitar or fiddle would. The rim is great in this context. You walk the tipper from the center, to the edge and beyond. As you said, this allows more ability to express when you're playing in a group or at session. Less focused on a certain pattern, more articulate, faster than a speeding whistle, able to leap tall pint glasses in a single bound.
# Posted on September 29th 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Bodhr
Irish ruff we see through your disguise - for you are Bodhran Man - leaping into phone box's to change into costume, all black with a glow in the dark bodhran and atomic tipper, allways ready to help fiddlers in distress, the noble keeper of the beat.
# Posted on September 29th 2003 by clunk999
he he he
# Posted on September 29th 2003 by clunk999
Re: Bodhr
AArrrgh! We're getting towards the bottom of page two! Help us Bodhran Man!
# Posted on September 30th 2003 by greenman
Re: Bodhr
so we made it to page three - any one out there?
If so how about the only one at a time rule?
I reckon that one at a time is a good rule for two reasons, you don't cancel each other out - like putting in a skip when the other guy is putting in a beat. And cos the other musicians can see that you are playing nice and can relax!!
However there are always exceptions to rules. What do you think about two badhrans going at the same time, one steady plain and low, the other top end and ornamental? And what if there is a djembe? is it only one drum at a time or only one bodhran. I know that it depends on the size of the session and if it is stricktly trad then there should't be any djembies - anyone got any tips/stories about playing with said drums? We have a french guy that some times comes turns up and he is amazing, I tend to lust listen. Another djembie turns up and plays every tune all night - he plays to a good level but I personally wish he would take his turn.
Was also wandering what else you guys play? and if so do you find that wrestling with the melody eats into your drum practice time?
Reckon that only hardened bodhran folk would go back to page three so if you are out there - what do you reckon???
Cheers
clunk
# Posted on October 1st 2003 by clunk999
for lust read just, he may be able to play but he looks like a bulldog chewing a wasp.
# Posted on October 1st 2003 by clunk999
Re: Bodhr
The second part, the visual imagery, is hilarious,... bulldog chewing a wasp. I don't get the first part. "for lust read just". Sounds poetic, or metaphorical. Dude, I cannot stand djembe's. They sound ok, but the players look like groping apes. No place with flutes and fiddles. Anybody that would play a djembe would also be self absorbed eonugh to play in a session all night long. After the 2nd or 3rd pint, we - the djembe player - would have a man to man talk.
Good questions on two players and the like. It takes two kindred souls to play double. Involve one player with a big ego or a compulsion to be the star of the show and it's ruined.
I would like somebody to post another simple, private bodhran topic on the front page please. We are entitied to have one front page topic going at al times. I can't. My name, irish ruff, is like waving a red cape in front of a bull. I have had unabashed skirmishes with the drum critics. They are laying in wiat for me. he, he, he....
# Posted on October 2nd 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Bodhr
Irish ruff, am going away for a few days and after missing the begining of this thread, am loath to post something now and then catch it up second hand when I get back.
btw isn't this just the best site out? have been stuck inside with the flu today and spent it all trolling thru the archives of this site. have had the internet for a few years and not really got into it untill I found this site, now my evenings are spent either practising or reading all the clever, entertaining and funny stuff at this place.
topics for a front page post - I particularly enjoyed greenmans posting about the correct way to accompany the bodhran - lol!! but seriously I reckon that most folk (Mr Gill excepted) enjoy good bodhran playing - but what exactly is that? it's hard to find your own style when there is no definate way of playing. for example the fiddlers have such a wealth of stuff to choose from, what I mean is someone can dedicate years to playing in a 1920's fiddle style - and then find there own way of playing that style. So how do you play bodhran the way you want to when there is such a stigma attached? och mechty the wine is kicking in with the flu tabs and I'm rambling.
So will think about it over the weekend and see how brave I am when I get back. btw who do you like to listen to, have got Def Shepherd on the phones just know and Mark Maguire is the new bodhran player - fab.
cheers clunk - maried to an accountant and scarer of trout with fur and feather!!!!!
# Posted on October 2nd 2003 by clunk999
Re: Bodhr
You've lost me there, mate! "Listening to Def Lepard on the 'phones" - a decent heavy metal band. Didn't know thay had bodhr
# Posted on October 2nd 2003 by greenman
Re: Bodhr
clunk, sorry bout the flu! It is our season now, I am looking for a "flu shot"... preventative maintenance. greenman, it's easy to get he group involved in drum topics. this was a first, to have a chance to chat. first page, last page, no matter.
I'll say this modestly/proudly.... I have "conceived" of my own style on bodhran. It's a unique concept that nobody's done yet, that I know about. Maybe nobody would want to, - I certainly don't care - but I'm excited. I am still about a year away from taking it on the road. I have several equipment hurdles. But I'm doing well enough on the gear that I have. I'm debating design plans for a tweaked drum, which includes a modified shell configuration, possibly a new skin type and even a unique beater. The more I work on the playing style, the more the concept becomes concrete in my mind. I'm not ready to roll it out yet, in writing, I don't want to endure any criticism and possibly get discouraged but this was just to answer clunk's question about being stigmatized. That was me and my drumming 20 years ago, now, "I does what I wants".
# Posted on October 2nd 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Bodhr
Hey Mr. Ruff! Sounds interesting!
Here's a nice little bodhr
# Posted on October 5th 2003 by greenman
What's your new one going to look like?
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# Posted on October 5th 2003 by greenman
Re: Bodhr
[O....
Greenman, I'm looking for something with a tapered rim. I think a wood worker would call it "radiused" . Hard to describe, but current rims on our drums are made wiht a right angle, rin to the head.., perpendicular, like an L , I want something that has three inches of 45% angle between the head and the rim. And the tacks on the rim pas the 45%.... I an just looking for the right maker to commission one. Kev. O'Connell has the right rim thickness, but is he very rote in his designs. I've asked him, but he just doesn't "get it". My current plas is to buy a drum shell and have it modified be a woodworker, then, send it to someone who will skin it.
Regards, ruff..
# Posted on October 6th 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Bodhr
Hmmm...
My O'Kane has about 3/4 inch of taper on the rim. But 3 inches? A strange beast! Wouldn't 3 inches of taper need a very thick rim?
\())
# Posted on October 6th 2003 by greenman
Re: Bodhr
No, I got the idea from the internal reinforcing rings that are used on drums. There is a concept, or rather design technique of modern drums called the "bearing edge". Not many bodhran makers have experimented around with it. Bearing edges require radiused edges, so that the portion of the drum shell or the rim come to a
# Posted on October 6th 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Bodhr
? ...come to a...??
Are you alright, Mr. Ruff? You had a late night or something? The Patent Police get you? Have you gone insane?
And look! We're at the top of a page!
\())
# Posted on October 7th 2003 by greenman
Re: Bodhr
nuf said..........
see ya in the funny pages.
/[O)))
# Posted on October 7th 2003 by irish ruff