Someone mentioned on another thread that airs are harder to play well than dance tunes. I've heard people say this before, and I honestly don't know what I think about this. I do think they're harder to play than some people would assume...but I tend to think playing *any* tune well is a challenge. Would love some opinions on this. Anyone?
Is it that airs are usually done solo, while with dance tunes you can hide behind a whole session or band?
There was a quote, can't remember from who, can't remember the exact words, but it was from someone of esteem, (P. O'Keefe?) something to the effect of "anyone can play a jig or reel, but it's the slow airs that separate the men from the boys".
Now if that isn't a wind up I don't know what is. Hardee har har.
I could play dance tunes, relatively well, early on but it wasn't until I could play 'Green fields of Canada', well, on whistle (let alone the damn Overton low D) that I felt Iwas any good. Still not good compared to a lot of folks, but that was a milestone, esp on the Overton.
More particularly, slow airs are more of a challenge. Probably because they are to be played slowly, so every note is heard, and exposed, for better or worse. If you take the view that you should aim to play them as if sung, then ornamentation may be minimal(within the range of what the voice can do), and the quality comes through in how well you can put some expression into the music.
Airs in a broader sense can includesuch pieces as Carolan tunes and others deriving from songs. The pace need not be as slow, so it is possible to put both swing and expression into them, and so can be easier to play. (They can also be easier to destroy through familiarity leading to carelessness and lack of expression). Next tune please........
Some years ago I attended an airs workshop by Brendan McGlinchey, who remarked that he'd worked on that particular air for 9 months before he considered it ready to play in public.
I think its true. To make an air sound good one must become immersed in the music, and have great feeling for it. This passion is what makes an air magical. Listen to Seamus Ennis and Tony MacMahon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF3fW4Nox9U
People new to the music always get the wrong impression that the timing in slow airs is some sort of free for all. All you have to do is play the notes in the right order. But when you realise that to play an air well, the length of the notes is absolutly critical, you then realise that they take some learning. And some concentration to play. You can't sit on auto pilot on an air, like you can with the dance tunes. (not that you should be on auto pilot ever, of course).
"Being a singer, Ennis had a unique understanding of the playing of slow airs. This is demonstrated here with four tracks on which he sings the song and plays the air back-to-back."
Brendan McGlinchey said in the workshop that if you want to play a (slow) air well you should research its cultural and historical context, as well as any story, person or location associated with the tune.
A workshop just for slow airs---what a great idea. I'd love to go to something like that, or one just for reels, or just for slipjigs. It's not that often that you get to really explore a particular type of tune, see what characterizes it, and learn how to bring out those features, irrespective of whatever tune you’re playing.
I agree, in general, that slower tunes can be technically more challenging for all the comments mentioned above. The "expression" comment, I think, hits it square. Intonation, bow control, etc. are essential. Although it may be taboo to many here, a well-seasoned vibrato is normally, in my own humble experience, where my expression on airs comes through in lieu of lots and lots of ornamentation.
For many beginners of the instrument, it seems the major challenge on airs is bow control... to avoid the bow "bounce" on long, slow drawn out notes. If someone has the challenge, try concentrating on wrist control and use the whole bow from frog to tip... a slight flick of the wrist should bring the bow back in the other direction without sounding forced, unless on an accent. Phrasing is key to when to change a bow on a slow note progression.
How necessary do people think it is to know the *words* of a slow air when these exist, either in English or in Irish, to play it properly, or at least well enough?
nicholas, I think the important part is to play it as it's sung. I play Eamonn an Chnoic and Ar Éirinn Ní Neosainn Cé Hí from Liam Clancy and Tommy Makem singing them. My Irish is feeble at best, but I've modeled my playing of them on those old recordings I've listened to a million times.
Play 'em as ya/they sing 'em, I guess.
Also, An Cailin Deas Cruite Na MBo from Muireann Nic Amhlaoibh and Danu, makes a lovely air if you play it as she sings it.
Not how Judy Garland sang it. Ha ha. I won't even bother you with the You Tube link, it's frightening.
The airs workshop by Brendan McGlinchey I attended was at the Scoil Eigse in Listowel in 2001. I hadn't been playing long so I just sat and listened. And yes, he did mention listening to and understanding the words of a sung air - in Gaelic if you can. That would be part of the cultural context of the tune I think.
Just listened to the first bit of J. Garland . . .
AAAAAAAAAAAARGGGGGGGGGGGGGG NNOOOOOOOOOO!!
SWFL Fiddler, you unprincipled devil, how could you do that to a frail old fiddler just wanting something nice to watch while she has her breakfast . . . .
I quite like to listen to slow airs when I'm in the right mood, as a banjo player I'm not fond of playing them though
They are a terrible self indulgence at a session however. Ok *very* occasionally, but the peson starting one might as well announce, ok everyone the next 5 minutes will be for me and me alone why don't the rst of you go to the bar.
They are not really tunes for joining in, unless you like amorphous mush.
So *at a session* : ok in small doses when there is plenty of time, when everyone has gone quiet for a bit and there is an obvious lull, when asked to play one etc. But for fecks sake not in the last half hour before closing unless things go very quiet.
And don't inflict them on folks too frequently unless you are really sure they want to be so inflicted. It isn't particualrly sociable to over do it.
I think there must be a common misconception that air playing is maudlin and wishy-washy. That's just bad air playing.
You'd have your socks blown of if you had Finbar Fury in the pub with a slow air. It's so intense you can hardly breath and your stomach muscles all tightens up.
I like listening to slow airs. I just don't think they make for good tunes in a session except as an ocasional change of pace, because by their nature they are solo pieces.
Slow airs *do* become maudlin and wishy-washy when a bunch of people join in and play along at a session. They can make great solo pieces, but that is what they are: solo pieces. Not really session tunes. More like a singers turn at one of those singing circles where everyone takes a slot as a solo and it is frowned upon to play along.
Thread creep! Well pointed out though lads. Airs are not much for sessions, unless everyone's gone for a smoke/bathroom break/pint and you've been left sitting there all by yourself. Either that, or check your deodorant.
The thread was about airs in general though, no mention of inflicting them on sessions full of eager, happy folks ready to crank out a loooooooong set of mighty reels.
Gawd help us, just watched some of the Judy Garland clip.
I feel violated.
I usually can't get enough of the version on Liam Farrell & Joe Whelan's "they sailed away from dublin bay". I'll have to listen to their version again in the hope of chasing off the Garland for good.
SWFL (may I be informal ?) Er - yes if I keep my eyes closed.
I remember hearing real Irish Traditional Music for the first time (up to then all I'd seen was the Frank Sinatra in hairy green suit singing about leprechauns type of something or other) (or my slightly Irish and completely unmusical mother doing dreadful things to 'The Mountains of Mourne)
I remember the feeling of, wow, so that's what it's supposed to be like.
airs vs. dance tunes
airs vs. dance tunes
Someone mentioned on another thread that airs are harder to play well than dance tunes. I've heard people say this before, and I honestly don't know what I think about this. I do think they're harder to play than some people would assume...but I tend to think playing *any* tune well is a challenge. Would love some opinions on this. Anyone?
# Posted on May 19th 2009 by kennedy
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
Is it that airs are usually done solo, while with dance tunes you can hide behind a whole session or band?
There was a quote, can't remember from who, can't remember the exact words, but it was from someone of esteem, (P. O'Keefe?) something to the effect of "anyone can play a jig or reel, but it's the slow airs that separate the men from the boys".
Now if that isn't a wind up I don't know what is. Hardee har har.
# Posted on May 19th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
I could play dance tunes, relatively well, early on but it wasn't until I could play 'Green fields of Canada', well, on whistle (let alone the damn Overton low D) that I felt Iwas any good. Still not good compared to a lot of folks, but that was a milestone, esp on the Overton.
# Posted on May 19th 2009 by shanty
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
Anyone can slop through it, or any air for that matter, but to make it sound good...that takes some doing.
# Posted on May 19th 2009 by shanty
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
More particularly, slow airs are more of a challenge. Probably because they are to be played slowly, so every note is heard, and exposed, for better or worse. If you take the view that you should aim to play them as if sung, then ornamentation may be minimal(within the range of what the voice can do), and the quality comes through in how well you can put some expression into the music.
Airs in a broader sense can includesuch pieces as Carolan tunes and others deriving from songs. The pace need not be as slow, so it is possible to put both swing and expression into them, and so can be easier to play. (They can also be easier to destroy through familiarity leading to carelessness and lack of expression). Next tune please........
# Posted on May 19th 2009 by southsider
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
Margaret Barry. Her take on both, whether singing or playing. A haunting, majestic interpreter of the music.
# Posted on May 19th 2009 by nicholas
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
Some years ago I attended an airs workshop by Brendan McGlinchey, who remarked that he'd worked on that particular air for 9 months before he considered it ready to play in public.
# Posted on May 20th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
I think its true. To make an air sound good one must become immersed in the music, and have great feeling for it. This passion is what makes an air magical. Listen to Seamus Ennis and Tony MacMahon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF3fW4Nox9U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_leFY8oFbg
# Posted on May 20th 2009 by dinn2
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
People new to the music always get the wrong impression that the timing in slow airs is some sort of free for all. All you have to do is play the notes in the right order. But when you realise that to play an air well, the length of the notes is absolutly critical, you then realise that they take some learning. And some concentration to play. You can't sit on auto pilot on an air, like you can with the dance tunes. (not that you should be on auto pilot ever, of course).
# Posted on May 20th 2009 by ...
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
(More)
Thanks Sherry and Don, a fine as guess as any, and highly likely it seems.
This was a fine read I'm sure most of you have seen already:
http://www.iol.ie/~ronolan/ennis.html
Seems Seamus' skill with slow airs was predicated on his abilities as a singer.
http://celticgrooves.homestead.com/CG_Ennis_Seamus_Return.html
"Being a singer, Ennis had a unique understanding of the playing of slow airs. This is demonstrated here with four tracks on which he sings the song and plays the air back-to-back."
"Do you care about slow airs?"
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/18121/
"Slow airs"
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/2132/
"The unmetered nature of slow airs/songs"
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/474
# Posted on May 20th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
Whoops, left my response to the IRTRAD email list in the first line, heh heh heh.
A likely candidate for my ill-remembered quote is the great piper and singer Seamus Ennis.
# Posted on May 20th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
Brendan McGlinchey said in the workshop that if you want to play a (slow) air well you should research its cultural and historical context, as well as any story, person or location associated with the tune.
# Posted on May 20th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
A workshop just for slow airs---what a great idea. I'd love to go to something like that, or one just for reels, or just for slipjigs. It's not that often that you get to really explore a particular type of tune, see what characterizes it, and learn how to bring out those features, irrespective of whatever tune you’re playing.
# Posted on May 20th 2009 by kennedy
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
I agree, in general, that slower tunes can be technically more challenging for all the comments mentioned above. The "expression" comment, I think, hits it square. Intonation, bow control, etc. are essential. Although it may be taboo to many here, a well-seasoned vibrato is normally, in my own humble experience, where my expression on airs comes through in lieu of lots and lots of ornamentation.
For many beginners of the instrument, it seems the major challenge on airs is bow control... to avoid the bow "bounce" on long, slow drawn out notes. If someone has the challenge, try concentrating on wrist control and use the whole bow from frog to tip... a slight flick of the wrist should bring the bow back in the other direction without sounding forced, unless on an accent. Phrasing is key to when to change a bow on a slow note progression.
# Posted on May 20th 2009 by Fiddlechick7
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
Vibrato on the fiddle for slow airs:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/1137
First line says it all!
"I'm trying to get good at vibrato for use in those slow aires [sic]. (Don't worry, I won't go overboard with it.)"
# Posted on May 20th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
How necessary do people think it is to know the *words* of a slow air when these exist, either in English or in Irish, to play it properly, or at least well enough?
I'd be interested to hear opinions on this one.
# Posted on May 20th 2009 by nicholas
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
nicholas, I think the important part is to play it as it's sung. I play Eamonn an Chnoic and Ar Éirinn Ní Neosainn Cé Hí from Liam Clancy and Tommy Makem singing them. My Irish is feeble at best, but I've modeled my playing of them on those old recordings I've listened to a million times.
Play 'em as ya/they sing 'em, I guess.
Also, An Cailin Deas Cruite Na MBo from Muireann Nic Amhlaoibh and Danu, makes a lovely air if you play it as she sings it.
Not how Judy Garland sang it. Ha ha. I won't even bother you with the You Tube link, it's frightening.
# Posted on May 20th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
It does seem an odd coupling, the last one!
# Posted on May 20th 2009 by nicholas
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
Oh, what the heck, here goes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f20dP-9jleo
# Posted on May 20th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
The airs workshop by Brendan McGlinchey I attended was at the Scoil Eigse in Listowel in 2001. I hadn't been playing long so I just sat and listened. And yes, he did mention listening to and understanding the words of a sung air - in Gaelic if you can. That would be part of the cultural context of the tune I think.
# Posted on May 20th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
When you start playing, slow airs seem achievable because they are , well, - slow.
Eventually you realise just how hard they are to play well, for all the reasons given above.
Maybe that's when you start to become a musician not just someone who plays music.
# Posted on May 22nd 2009 by c.g.
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
Just listened to the first bit of J. Garland . . .
AAAAAAAAAAAARGGGGGGGGGGGGGG NNOOOOOOOOOO!!
SWFL Fiddler, you unprincipled devil, how could you do that to a frail old fiddler just wanting something nice to watch while she has her breakfast . . . .
# Posted on May 22nd 2009 by c.g.
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
I quite like to listen to slow airs when I'm in the right mood, as a banjo player I'm not fond of playing them though
They are a terrible self indulgence at a session however. Ok *very* occasionally, but the peson starting one might as well announce, ok everyone the next 5 minutes will be for me and me alone why don't the rst of you go to the bar.
They are not really tunes for joining in, unless you like amorphous mush.
So *at a session* : ok in small doses when there is plenty of time, when everyone has gone quiet for a bit and there is an obvious lull, when asked to play one etc. But for fecks sake not in the last half hour before closing unless things go very quiet.
And don't inflict them on folks too frequently unless you are really sure they want to be so inflicted. It isn't particualrly sociable to over do it.
Not at least in my 2p opinion.
- chris
# Posted on May 22nd 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
I think there must be a common misconception that air playing is maudlin and wishy-washy. That's just bad air playing.
You'd have your socks blown of if you had Finbar Fury in the pub with a slow air. It's so intense you can hardly breath and your stomach muscles all tightens up.
# Posted on May 22nd 2009 by ...
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
I like listening to slow airs. I just don't think they make for good tunes in a session except as an ocasional change of pace, because by their nature they are solo pieces.
Slow airs *do* become maudlin and wishy-washy when a bunch of people join in and play along at a session. They can make great solo pieces, but that is what they are: solo pieces. Not really session tunes. More like a singers turn at one of those singing circles where everyone takes a slot as a solo and it is frowned upon to play along.
Nice once in a while at a session though.
- chris
# Posted on May 22nd 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
But I concure. I go out to the pub to play with my mates, not play on mi own. I can do that in the house.
# Posted on May 22nd 2009 by ...
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
Thread creep! Well pointed out though lads. Airs are not much for sessions, unless everyone's gone for a smoke/bathroom break/pint and you've been left sitting there all by yourself. Either that, or check your deodorant.
The thread was about airs in general though, no mention of inflicting them on sessions full of eager, happy folks ready to crank out a loooooooong set of mighty reels.
# Posted on May 22nd 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
c.g. - HA! I was hoping someone would bite on that.
This one any better?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BWOglRQG1k
# Posted on May 22nd 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
Gawd help us, just watched some of the Judy Garland clip.
I feel violated.
I usually can't get enough of the version on Liam Farrell & Joe Whelan's "they sailed away from dublin bay". I'll have to listen to their version again in the hope of chasing off the Garland for good.
Gawd but I hope the boys are up to the job!
- chris
# Posted on May 22nd 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: airs vs. dance tunes
SWFL (may I be informal ?) Er - yes if I keep my eyes closed.
I remember hearing real Irish Traditional Music for the first time (up to then all I'd seen was the Frank Sinatra in hairy green suit singing about leprechauns type of something or other) (or my slightly Irish and completely unmusical mother doing dreadful things to 'The Mountains of Mourne)
I remember the feeling of, wow, so that's what it's supposed to be like.
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by c.g.