I notice in Sean Keane's book 'Fifty Fiddle Solos' that he cuts not only above the note but also very often from below the note, so in a tune like 'The Humours of Ennstymon' he cuts the 'G' in the the third part with an f# . He also sometimes plays staccato rolls which I had never heard of up till now.....Can anyone, I'm sure lots of you will, throw some light on this, especially the lower note cut; is it just another way of phrasing? How many this cut in their regular playing?
At the risk of being pedantic, a cut is not another way of phrasing, it is a type of ornamentation, If you think about it, the latter half of a roll is just a lower note cut. What is the book like, is it any good?
it's daft to pedantic about what's phrasing and what's ornamentation/articulation. they are all intertwing ways of playing the tunes. they are inseperable
gam, isn't ornamentation a type of phrasing, one person may play the notes as normal, another will throw in a cut to emphasise something, a first note in a bar or something?
I guess I'm confused. I thought a "cut" was not an actual note, just a quick interruption of the continuous tone during a bow stroke, done by tapping the string lightly--too lightly to generate a note of any specific pitch--with another finger.
If you lift your finger to "cut from below," how do you avoid getting a note?
You still keep a itsy bit of skin touching to get the interruption, but not a 'note'. BUT there is no need to limit yourself to one type of cut, this is where it becomes phrasing; Where you cut on each particular note, early or late or in the middle! how much of a musical note you want to use and how long you want your cut to be in reference to the length of note you are cutting. Of course plenty of instruments and players play musical notes as their cuts.
Having a number of possible ways of doing/'playing something is essential. So, at least at first, you can consciously work out various possibilities and practice them individually. In time they will become automatic. This is all part of the dynamics of the 'performance' and part of the phrasing. Not dynamics of volume but of 'amount of busyness'. if you see what i mean.
I think a bit of personal opinion, underscored with some explanation may be in order.
I don't like Sean Keen's playing.
All I can hear in it is him doing technical thinks. It's just jam packed full of technique. Technique should be invisible. It should be just stuff you have to play music with. But with this fella it just all seems upside down.
The polarisation of his playing with Matt Molloy is the easiest place to spot it. Molloy's playing is so effortless. He pops third octave notes from nowhere, jumps octaves, does all kind of things that are not easy on the flute at all. And yet all you hear is the flow of it, the ease of it, the musicality. The tune.
Then you listen to Sean Keen and you hear stuff like his staccato rolls and think, what the feck was that for. And he's lost it.
" isn't ornamentation a type of phrasing"
No, any more than punctuation is in writing. It's where you put the ornamentation to separate the phrases or emphasise notes within a phrase.
I don't think I use that technique at all. I might give it a try though, just for fun. I would think that one would use it in the same manner as an "over cut", although you might get more of a note out of it.
To Mr. Gill's point, I like Sean Keane's playing for the same reasons he doesn't like it. It's wild and over the top, and really presents a foil to Molloy when they play together. It also evokes piping for me. Then again, I haven't listened to any of his recordings in years.
Cutting under the note on fiddle
Cutting under the note on fiddle
I notice in Sean Keane's book 'Fifty Fiddle Solos' that he cuts not only above the note but also very often from below the note, so in a tune like 'The Humours of Ennstymon' he cuts the 'G' in the the third part with an f# . He also sometimes plays staccato rolls which I had never heard of up till now.....Can anyone, I'm sure lots of you will, throw some light on this, especially the lower note cut; is it just another way of phrasing? How many this cut in their regular playing?
Thanks all for your shared wisdom
# Posted on May 17th 2009 by Shylock
Re: Cutting under the note on fiddle
At the risk of being pedantic, a cut is not another way of phrasing, it is a type of ornamentation, If you think about it, the latter half of a roll is just a lower note cut. What is the book like, is it any good?
# Posted on May 17th 2009 by gam
Re: Cutting under the note on fiddle
Well The cut is also a tool you can use for phrasing. Its a way of varying your expression. So you could sing a phrase with a cut, or without.
# Posted on May 17th 2009 by piobagusfidil
Re: Cutting under the note on fiddle
it's daft to pedantic about what's phrasing and what's ornamentation/articulation. they are all intertwing ways of playing the tunes. they are inseperable
# Posted on May 17th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Cutting under the note on fiddle
intertwining
# Posted on May 17th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Cutting under the note on fiddle
gam, isn't ornamentation a type of phrasing, one person may play the notes as normal, another will throw in a cut to emphasise something, a first note in a bar or something?
At least that's my take on phrasing
# Posted on May 17th 2009 by Shylock
Re: Cutting under the note on fiddle
ive cut from below in flute and whistle playing.
I try to anyway!
# Posted on May 17th 2009 by harping niamh
Re: Cutting under the note on fiddle
I guess I'm confused. I thought a "cut" was not an actual note, just a quick interruption of the continuous tone during a bow stroke, done by tapping the string lightly--too lightly to generate a note of any specific pitch--with another finger.
If you lift your finger to "cut from below," how do you avoid getting a note?
# Posted on May 17th 2009 by John Galt
Re: Cutting under the note on fiddle
You still keep a itsy bit of skin touching to get the interruption, but not a 'note'. BUT there is no need to limit yourself to one type of cut, this is where it becomes phrasing; Where you cut on each particular note, early or late or in the middle! how much of a musical note you want to use and how long you want your cut to be in reference to the length of note you are cutting. Of course plenty of instruments and players play musical notes as their cuts.
Having a number of possible ways of doing/'playing something is essential. So, at least at first, you can consciously work out various possibilities and practice them individually. In time they will become automatic. This is all part of the dynamics of the 'performance' and part of the phrasing. Not dynamics of volume but of 'amount of busyness'. if you see what i mean.
# Posted on May 17th 2009 by piobagusfidil
Re: Cutting under the note on fiddle
I think a bit of personal opinion, underscored with some explanation may be in order.
I don't like Sean Keen's playing.
All I can hear in it is him doing technical thinks. It's just jam packed full of technique. Technique should be invisible. It should be just stuff you have to play music with. But with this fella it just all seems upside down.
The polarisation of his playing with Matt Molloy is the easiest place to spot it. Molloy's playing is so effortless. He pops third octave notes from nowhere, jumps octaves, does all kind of things that are not easy on the flute at all. And yet all you hear is the flow of it, the ease of it, the musicality. The tune.
Then you listen to Sean Keen and you hear stuff like his staccato rolls and think, what the feck was that for. And he's lost it.
# Posted on May 17th 2009 by llig leahcim
Cutting under the note
Hello, Matt? What do you have to say when the elders at the session have these little anuerysms.
# Posted on May 18th 2009 by Ben Steen
. . .
aneurysms
# Posted on May 18th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Cutting under the note on fiddle
" isn't ornamentation a type of phrasing"
No, any more than punctuation is in writing. It's where you put the ornamentation to separate the phrases or emphasise notes within a phrase.
# Posted on May 18th 2009 by gam
Re: Cutting under the note on fiddle
I don't think I use that technique at all. I might give it a try though, just for fun. I would think that one would use it in the same manner as an "over cut", although you might get more of a note out of it.
To Mr. Gill's point, I like Sean Keane's playing for the same reasons he doesn't like it. It's wild and over the top, and really presents a foil to Molloy when they play together. It also evokes piping for me. Then again, I haven't listened to any of his recordings in years.
# Posted on May 18th 2009 by Jode
Re: Cutting under the note on fiddle
Isn't piping where staccato rolls come from?
# Posted on May 18th 2009 by Ben Steen