For someone who doesnt know what a Plastic Paddy is, its someone not from Ireland but think they are bonafide Irish because their great great great great great great grandmother was half Irish or something distant like that, and as such claim Irish nationality and in doing so, feel obligated to conform to every untrue Irish stereotype known to man. Hallmarks of the Plastic Paddy include fake bad tempers, thinking red hair means Irishness, listening to Drop Kick Murphy's and thinking it genuine Irish music, idolatry of Boondock Saints which as well as being one of the worst films ever made, is also the most unIrish film ever made, drinking green beer on St. Patrick's Day, and in the face of all these things, the Plastic Paddy has never actually been to Ireland or knows anything about it whatsoever, their only grasp of Irish history being that they should hate England out of loyalty with no idea why. Plastic Paddies tend to think they can do very good Irish accents (they cant, nobody not from Ireland can do a good one, its impossible, its never been achieved in the history of tv and film.......never!!) and are only too keen to try this out when they do meet bonafide Irish people.
They reside in pretty much every English speaking country (barring Ireland of course!!) and can usually be found in tacky Irish bars slugging pints of poor guinness and spouting rhetorical nonsense about Ireland and the IRA and trying to sing along to Irish songs.
I want you to show yourselves so we can rid you of this notion that you are Irish.
__________________
Perhaps there's also the Pastie Paddy, who actually lives in Cornwall, the Dyslexic Paddy, who can't even spell and doesn't think to proofread, and the Pasty Paddy, who never gets out into the sunshine.....?
A similar sort of question stirred up much controversy a little while ago. Are you gearing yourself up for the summer invasiion, siol ?
Of course there are many sides to every argument.......
..........I am sure there are many Irish people with little knowledge of their own culture beyond their local habits of living and socialising, who know very little of the music those of us who come on this forum know and love so much.
This attitude is not confined to Ireland. Some while ago the current Minister for the Arts in the UK declared that his particular idea of Hell would be three traditional singers in a pub in Somerset.
However, the idea that there might be a breed of, particularly Americans, who know little more of the culture they left behind, and ignorantly ape what they believe this to be, well maybe they deserve what they get.
Siol welcome back! It seems you're still a bit steamed up about this whole topic - first Scots who are not Scots, and now Plastic Paddy wannabes. For the life of me I can't understand why a gentleman in Scotland is so riled about about what a few goofy posers do in other countries. Did some tourist steal from you? Did they buy up all the Celtic jerseys at the Glasgow airport? Why so much angst my friend? It all just a bit of harmless diversion after all..
Sure, someone who comes to a pub and puts on an accent can be annoying, but people should get over it. People at sessions can seem aggressive at first and people put on an accent to try and be friendly. People should just generally calm down. I think it's ridiculous that someone with an english accent should be frowned at in a session in edinburgh.
With all due respect to America , I notice that people hang on to
their ethnicity for generations and generations, I can't see any harm in it. Personally I find the Irish accent far too difficult to imitate so I masquerade as a Kiwi when bored .
Grego, they are normally called trolls. We seem to call what they do here 'wind-ups' though.
Just curious, do plastic paddies melt in the summer if left outside for too long, like when you'd leave an audio cassette on the dashboard of your car during a hot summer day? Just slightly dating myself there.
Here's a hypothetical for our man Siol - let's say a kid is born and raised in Scotland - grows up to learn all the fiddle tunes, knows Robbie Burns chapter and verse, loves haggis, and saves all five penalty kicks to give Scotland a win over England in a world cup qualifier. Is that Scottish enough for you? There's only one problem - his grandparents came to Scotland from China. Do you call him Scottish or Chinese? Do you begrudge him in any way for celebrating both traditions?
What's a "Pastic" Paddy? Calm down about it. Also, I thought Boondock Saints was a funny movie. I enjoyed it; I think Boys in da Hood was probably the most Un-Irish movie out there. You should be happy someone is proud of their Irish heritage, instead of denouncing it. Have a pint of Guinness and calm down.
yanks with Nationality issues need a seperate section of this website..whats so good about being Irish Anyway. There are better countries where the State treats people better, more accountable and functioning social contingency and were there isn't such a pronounced difference between the have and the have nots. You want to aspire to somthing. Look towards Scandanavia, Finland, Sweeden. It doesnt take an economist to know America has been sold down the river . As for Ireland. Its a wee corrupt back water. Look at the dismal state of the HSE, the corrupt nature of FF administration. The Corporations have good aul Ireland by the Balls. True Irishness and its ideals have been on the backfoot for generations. Stick to the tunes.
"his grandparents came to Scotland from China. Do you call him Scottish or Chinese? Do you begrudge him in any way for celebrating both traditions?"
Scottshness has nothing to do with wnnng goals for scotland.I actually have a friend who is racially far east asian. He does in no way consider himself chnese, do not consder him chinese n anyway, He is as scottsh as me and I am no more scottish than he is. As have stated before the scots are not a race of people, you cannot be scottish through descent, the scots are seperated by culture, geography, community and behavioural traits not race.
My race s caucasian and my cultural identty s scottsh
But Siol, if your friend did wish to connect to his ancestral heritage through music or language or dance, would you begrudge him for it? Would it make him any less Scottish simply because he had an interest in Chinese cultural?
Your rant today was about Plastic Paddy's - but immature boorish behavior has it's own flag. You can find buffoons in any culture, celebrating all the worst aspects of ethnic stereotype behavior. I only point this out because I think you are lumping all people who have an interest in cultural heritage with plastic paddy behavior.
So is it wrong to say African American? I would like to see some of you guys tell Puerto Ricans that were born in America a Plastic Puerto Rican. Sadly, it seems that the Irish Americans are the only ones that can't claim to be or be proud of their heritage. America is a new country and a melting pot. People are separated by culture here(at least where I am from). It is different in a new country that is so full of so many different cultures and nationalities. The only way for people feel to have a National Identity is to go back to their heritage. Nobody claims to be Irish, just of Irish decent. Get over it.
"Sadly, it seems that the Irish Americans are the only ones that can't claim to be or be proud of their heritage."
A huge amount of britsh people have irish heritage, they dont feel the need to make a song and dance about t or give themself rdiculous hyphens like irish english or irish scot.
"America is a new country and a melting pot"
So is all of europe.
"It is different in a new country that is so full of so many different cultures and nationalities. The only way for people feel to have a National Identity is to go back to their heritage"
Americans who are born and raised in america are culturally american, they are not culturally, rish, scottish, german, japanese, gautamalin. Your national identity is american. Saying your natonal identity s irish when you have likely never even been to ireland is quite frankly a joke.
"So is it wrong to say African American?"
African americans refer to themselves as african in a racial context not a culturaly or nationalistic one. If you said you were european american you would be likely refering to you your racial identity.
Sorry, trying to follow along here - Africans, the most genetically diverse group on the planet, are one race. But Irish and Scots are not - they're European Americans? No - just Americans. Funny, my Navajo friends don't think I'm a real American. Boy this sure is getting complicated....
In America, it isn't like that Siol. If a Chinese guy is born in America, he is Chinese. It doesn't matter if his family has been in America for 200 years, or 2. If you look at him, you say he is Chinese. When you describe someone here, it is cultural. Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Chinese, Japanese, Jamaican, etc..... and Africans refer to themselves culturally, as do every other race here. Europe's melting pot is nothing compared to America's. You obviously have no idea at all about America, so you should no make accusations or assumptions.
"A huge amount of britsh people have irish heritage, they dont feel the need to make a song and dance about t or give themself rdiculous hyphens like irish english or irish scot."
England is not a new country. That is how people are identified in America. Like Jusa said, the real Americans are the Native ones.
I am not European American because I have no French, Italian, Portugese, Spanish, or anything else like that in my family. I am straight up of Irish/Scottish/English decent.
Siol, it seems you are laboring under the idea that American culture is just one big thing - I assure that a kid growing up in South Boston has a different type of culture experience than a kid raised in South Los Angeles. It's not just one big episode of Bay Watch.
Hey siol, this website is about music.
Not a soap box for racists...
there are already plenty of websites for that purpose...
Do you have anything of value to contribute here , or just more hot air?
I have met some Pollocks born in Ireland that were not considered Irish. Why is that? They have an Irish accent, and they were born and raised there. Why are they still considered Polish? I also met some Nigerians there, some of the younger ones were even born there, and yet they are still considered Nigerians. But, if someone has Irish parents here, you consider them American because they were born in America. I don't get it.
You don't know what it is like with different types of neighborhoods. You never grew up with different Irish neighborhoods, Puerto Rican, Haitian and Jamaicans, Germans, Italian, and many others. America isn't just American culture, we are not all the same. Southern people are way different for yankees, mid westerners, and west coasters. It is just too big of a country to claim one culture. It is impossible for America to be one culture. It will not happen anytime soon.
And, what does coming from N.Ireland make you? Does it make you Irish or English?
in what way to you benifit from your seemingly high brow definition of being Irish siol..your name,which I assume is an attempt at Gaelic, isnt even spelt correctly.. Refer to my previous comment about whats so good about being Irish anyway..You aspirations are ill founded in this day and age..spend a night on the tear in Ballymun r sumwer n come back to me on that one..as the previous poster said this website is about tunes. Get over yourself
Let me put it this way: I am not denouncing my country. I am proud to be American. I am also proud of my Irish roots and heritage. That is how it is in America: people are proud of their heritage and cultures. That is what being American is. Is there anything wrong with that?
what exactly is it you are proud to be american for..Your country and its people are responsible for some of the gravest crimes ever comitted to humanity
Jeremy should delete this whole thread..
I take exeption to people like you getting away with discussion like this when I get banned for a bit of banter..I hope you get a wee email..
Love the way you glide over the comment about the responsibility your country holds for some of the gravest acts against humanity..
Typically American..Go yankees
When I was a student in Dublin we scoffed at the American celebration of St. Patrick, finding something preposterous in the green beer, the search for any connection, no matter how tenuous, to Ireland, the misty sentiment of it all that seemed so at odds with the Ireland we knew and actually lived in. Who were these people dressed as Leprechauns and why were they dressed that way? This Hibernian Brigadoon was a sham, a mockery, a Shamrockery of real Ireland and a remarkable exhibition of plastic paddyness. But at least it was confined to the Irish abroad and those foreigners desperate to find some trace of green in their blood.[4]
Well, it sounds like you are just asking a rhetorical question then. You obviously don't want to know, or you will just never understand. Also sounds like bigotry.
I wish I had kept track of all the little greenbacks I was paid on St. Patrick's Day over the years. At a minimum, I earned enough to buy a new fiddle, many, many sets of strings, and multiple re-hairings of my bow. One thing about those "Plastic" Paddys -- they always throw around lots of cash. I'm sure many think this is crass, but it became a way to support my music habit. And no one seemed to mind. And I don't think anyone every got hurt by any of it.
i must have mistaken one of your comments for one make my the initial poster...
speaking of awnsering questions Siol, awnser this. What did you set out to achieve by starting this discussion. Is it a mode of self efficacy? Want is is you are trying to establish apart from drawing attention to the Bullheaded nature of your own culture..whatever that happens to be..We are all cut from the same cloth..Those who designate, ultimately oppress which fits into my previous sentiment about your country..which interestingly was founded by ethnic cleansing.. It seems your rhetorical renegade question is symbolic of your own dilema..or mode of self efficacy.. which in itself seems pointless as people with such ideas will rarely progress in that regard
"We are all cut from the same cloth..Those who designate, ultimately oppress which fits into my previous sentiment about your country..which interestingly was founded by ethnic cleansing."
Trucks Mulligan is the voice of reason here. If you live in Britain you live in the global village. Who cares if you pretend to be English, Scots or Irish anyway? Why should it bother you if people pretend to be from somewhere else? Does it really hurt you? As much as paying taxes to kill innocent civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan? We all try to play this music with an Irish accent anyway . . .
What would you assume is "My" country anyway..
It seems that therin lies your problem. Maybe its not so easy to put people in boxes. I know for a fact I dont fit in yours..Nor do I own a country
I am just saying that culture is passed down from generation to generation. The Irish that immigrated to America passed their traditions and culture down, just like the Irish in Ireland do. That is what America is. It is all of the immigrants from their original countries passing down their cultures and traditions to their children, and it stays like that. Sorry if you have a problem with that Siol. That is what the American way and culture is. It is not one culture, but many different ones. True American culture is the Native American way.
People's illusions are without number. Why so unsympathetic? There are romantics and knuckleheads everywhere. And Irish Americans certainly don't have the market cornered on schmaltz.
But I do think there can be some genuine cultural, or subcultural, differences between an American raised in a family descended from Irish immigrants, say, and one that immigrated from Brazil. As Americans, they have lots in common, but some things that are different. It's not that controversial a point.
I am just saying that culture is passed down from generation to generation. The Irish that immigrated to America passed their traditions and culture down,"
I disagree entirely and so do many anthropologists. There s something called the degregation of culture in ethnicity. culture is somethng that can only shape you if t s lived in everyday. culture is not tangible and cannot be passed down. There is no cultural similarity between irishman and those amercans who claim irish heritage. and by culture I am not speakng of irish music.
"That is what the American way and culture is. It is not one culture, but many different ones. "
Celebratng st patricks day once a year does not constitute irsh culture. I cannot for the life of me understand how you can say you are culturally irish.
yeh your probably right..dont like the ethos this discussion represents. We are all the same in death why confound life by propogating difference.. "Only by subverting identity can man stumble uopn the rudimentary principles of life"
Funny how people from england with scottsh parents never refer to themselvs as scots are clam to be culturally scottsh, I have english friends with scottish parents and they have only ever regarded themselves as english. Americans seem to thnk they are the only people on earth wth immigrants for parents.
not you..stop banging on about culture..There is no similarity between Irishmen and those americans blahblahblah"
There is a similarity, they all end up in the same place. The ground
Oh and would lke to add, dont know if have sad this n my other thread, my father is irish and my mother is scottish. have irish citizenship but would never embarress myself by saying to going to ireland and telling people am irish. I have lived in ireland for 5 years and I am not n the slghtest bit culturally irish. I am a forerigner and would always be regarded so by the irish.
You need to get out more Siol - immigrants and their offspring refer to themselves by heritage all over the world. Take a walk through the Arab quarter in Nice, France. Perhaps the African neighborhoods in Milan. Are you going to tell someone in Belfast they can't celebrate their Scots heritage?
Funny that my Family is from the Lower Falls and has lived in Belfast for over a Hundred years, I dont object to anyone celebrating or identifying liniage, its just pathetic when it confines you..As it would seem it does..I have an Irish passport too. To me it is a meaningless peice of paper..Yet I would happily die fighting for the music..and against people like you who seek to label me
A bit of stupid nationalism going on here, although thinly disguised as intelligent debate. Wake up people. It doesn't mean anything or matter anymore. We live in a different age to our grandparents. Learn to live with it and accept that everything these days makes us the same, including this website.
Well Siol, you and your anthropologist friends can party all day together, while celebrating bigotry. You can discuss the philosophies of the plastic paddies. And, you will never fully understand what culture is. You obviously got what you wanted: an argument. Please do some research, and a few Sociology classes wouldn't hurt either. Good night.
fact...
I object to being banned from this website for banter when I have an obvious passion for the choons..Yet this Spacer posts "innane" discussions ad nausem.
I hope Jeremy deletes this. If he doesn't there is somthing amiss
I hope you wernt referring to me as one of those anthropogist freids of Siols..or as insighting what another poster descirbes as stupid nationalism..if that is the case you have missed my point entirely..which is the Polar opposite
For me, an internet site has value only when I can learn something. I wish I had stopped reading this many posts ago.
I'll go play some tunes now, and come back when this windup blows over.
A cow and a pig meet up with thier old friend, the donkey, at a class reunion. The donkey asks 'Did you two drive up together?'
The cow replies'No, the swine flew'.
An Irish family whose ancestors have lived in Ireland for a thousand years move to the USA and raise their children there. Now, all of a sudden, these children have no claim to be Irish anymore? Really?
I was going to write a big response about the cultural diversity I've encountered over the past year while living in Canada (I mean cultural diversity among Candian-born people), but I would just be feeding the trolls and wasting my time....
For those of you who were wondering WTF "siol nan air clannan" actually means, I asked a Gaelic speaker for a translation & here is his reply:
"It don't mean a thing - it's just a jumble of words.
Siol does mean seed or descendants and clann is children or family, but the phrase is a nonsense.
Maybe it actually means 'bit of an eejit'."
Hmmmmmm ..... the words Head the Hit on the Nail spring to mind!
Perhaps "siol nan air clannan" should be asked to explain what his moniker means (this should include an explanation of the grammatical structures he's used).
I can't believe that this ranting troll hasn't been booted yet, along with his threads....back to the tunes sounds like a good idea to me! From now on, I avoid threads where the poster doesn't even take the time to spell the subject correctly, often a sign that things will be going downhill from there.....
Ranting Troll - what a great phrase! I can almost picture a cheesy little animated GIF which you could insert into posts. Shame my artwork's not up to it otherwise I'd create one...
This board is terribly easy to troll, that's for sure.
So is this about music?
OK, so if it's about music, then there is an unbroken history of the playing of Irish music in America by those of Irish descent. There is also a history of laws in Ireland restricting the music (Dance Hall Act) as well as it being seen as 'backwards' until America showed Ireland how much money was to be made from it with the Clancies and Makem.
Now if you'll excuse me I have to go put on my green sequined pants and leprechaun hat. This Budweiser isn't going to color itself, ya know.
Well, whenever THIS plastic paddy finally gets the opportunity to visit Ireland's green shores, I expect it to be EXACTLY like what I saw in "Darby Gillis and the Wee Folk".
To quote Pete Coe, talking on another subject entirely,
"Unfortunately this argument seems to have been taken over by the Nationalists, who really ought to get out more."
"Funny how people from england with scottsh parents never refer to themselvs as scots are clam to be culturally scottsh, I have english friends with scottish parents and they have only ever regarded themselves as english."
I have Scottish parents, was born and brought up in England, but don't regard myself as English (British is the compromise, wouldn't presume to claim Scottish).
I prefer the term "Recycled Plastic Paddy" to describe myself. Now, back to my bowl of "Lucky Charms"...
-----------
"Thousands are Sailing"
The island it is silent now
But the ghosts still haunt the waves
And the torch lights up a famished man
Who fortune could not save
Did you work upon the railroad
Did you rid the streets of crime
Were your dollars from the white house
Were they from the five and dime
Did the old songs taunt or cheer you
And did they still make you cry
Did you count the months and years
Or did your teardrops quickly dry
Ah, no, says he, 'twas not to be
On a coffin ship I came here
And I never even got so far
That they could change my name
Thousands are sailing
Across the western ocean
To a land of opportunity
That some of them will never see
Fortune prevailing
Across the western ocean
Their bellies full
Their spirits free
They'll break the chains of poverty
And they'll dance
In Manhattan's desert twilight
In the death of afternoon
We stepped hand in hand on Broadway
Like the first man on the moon
And "The Blackbird" broke the silence
As you whistled it so sweet
And in Brendan Behan's footsteps
I danced up and down the street
Then we said goodnight to Broadway
Giving it our best regards
Tipped our hats to Mister Cohan
Dear old Times Square's favorite bard
Then we raised a glass to JFK
And a dozen more besides
When I got back to my empty room
I suppose I must have cried
Thousands are sailing
Again across the ocean
Where the hand of opportunity
Draws tickets in a lottery
Postcards we're mailing
Of sky-blue skies and oceans
From rooms the daylight never sees
Where lights don't glow on Christmas trees
But we dance to the music
And we dance
Thousands are sailing
Across the western ocean
Where the hand of opportunity
Draws tickets in a lottery
Where e'er we go, we celebrate
The land that makes us refugees
From fear of Priests with empty plates
From guilt and weeping effigies
And we dance
Plastic Traddy - an obnoxious troll on the discussion board of a traditional music website who actually does not have any interest in discussing music.
After reading through this discussion, I feel like quoting the words from the song "Plastic Paddy" by Eric Bogle but I won't do that because the words are available on his web site.
When some of my ancestors first came here from England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales, there weren't enough "European" women to marry so some of them married native women.
Since then, my ancestors have moved around quite a bit. On one side of the family, they moved to Arkansas from somewhere else shortly after Arkansas became a state.
They owned and operated a plantation in Columbia County in south Arkansas. When a certain most (Un)Civil War started, they owned more land in Columbia County than anyone else in that county.
There are still people in this country who think I should be blamed and should feel guilty because my ancestors were slave owners but I don't agree with that idea because I have no control over what happened in the past. I don't approve of slavery, either, and think it is wrong.
This was my maternal grandmother's family.
My maternal grandfather's family, on the other hand, were poor tenant farmers or what were usually called "dirt-poor sharecroppers" in Columbia County.
On my father's side of the family, they have moved around a lot from Tennessee to Alabama to Texas to Oklahoma or from Indiana to Oklahoma.
My father was born and raised in Oklahoma but he went to college in Illinois. When my father had finished college and earned his degree in metereology, he applied for a job and was hired by the University of Chicago to do weather research. While he was living and working there, he met and married my mother (who was born and raised in Arkansas). As a result, I was born and raised in Chicago but I live in Arkansas now.
So which of these places should I identify with? The Great State of Chicago (he asked sarcastically)? Chicago and the seven or eight surrounding counties in northeastern Illinois are almost a separate state unto themselves. Maybe I should tell people I am a native of Illinois where political offices are For Sale.
With a background this mixed, should I even be trying to play Irish or Scottish music?
Yes, I am being sarcastic and tongue-in-cheek after reading all of the comments in this discussion thread.
That's the whole point of this thread Fauxcelt - you're free to choose any aspects of your personal heritage you wish to enjoy - or not. It's up to you. Although I don't think Siol is a racist, I disagree in the strongest terms with his demands to impose his personal mindset on how people choose to define themselves.
SWFL - I've misplaced my Plastic Paddy green beer formula - is it one part food coloring to 4 parts Coors Lite? Damn - and the guy who had the formula for ice moved back to Colorado - we're screwed come next march 17th.
I was also trying to be silly and ridiculous in an effort to point how stupid and absurd some of the comments are and I guess I succeeded better than I expected.
JNE, I completely agree with your statement about not liking other people trying to impose their personal mindset on how I choose to define myself either.
I will pass on the green beer, though. My favorite type of beer is actually brown in color and I don't think adding green food coloring (or green paint, SWFL Fiddler) would improve it in any way whatsoever.
The background of *rising fawn*, cited above, could be that of someone I know; indeed, I strongly suspect that it is.
This person is functionally numerate, an attribute traditionally confined in the UK to Scots. Only Brown and Darling have the advanced maths to count the number of noughts in the UK national debt, for instance, and centuries of cattle-raiding taught them not only how to add / subtract / multiply / divide figures, but also how to hide them in caves and bring them back out again when it was safe, make them look entirely different, and sell them on.
I do not accuse this person of these dark arts, but she seems to be a walking chronicle of special offers and beer festival prices long consigned to kindly oblivion by feebler memories. She could probably draw a graph illustrating the staggering inverse relationship between the price and the value of Newcastle United players over the last quarter-century, and lay this bare for all time in a scarifying formula, possibly initiating far-reaching social change - like putting the b*****s back on fifty quid a week till they pull their fingers out and score some goals again.
I cannot remember when she last bought me a drink.
Though brought up far from her ancestral land, she was raised in the knowledge of obscure Clydeside union enforcers and the belief they should be running the country. This heritage she seems to have laid aside, as she cannot remember who they were. (But then, these days, neither can Thatcher.) But, like forgotten history generally, it may resurrect as alarming and bloodcurdling myth, leading to admiration of Mel Gibson, e.g. We are not out of the woods yet.
i've just trolled down through all this and am not amused
sorry siol but you can **** off over that opening post and it's offending markers _ haven't you thought about the real ones
i don't have to pretend to be anything more than i am but to the likes of you i will always be less than anything i could ever aspire to more, culturally speaking, but where i am is over your heads
i won't humour discontenters who should know better but i'll rejoice in the next session i play in the safe knowledge of me, my family, my life now and where ive stemmed from . . .
i know Irishism and am a proud Irishman of South London stock
"I completely agree with your statement about not liking other people trying to impose their personal mindset on how I choose to define myself either."
You should try living in Northern Ireland then, where that kind of stuff is a part of everyday life!
Up here, both sides play the old, "If yer no wi' us, then yer agin us!" card.
So while the Republican/Nationalists are insisting that half the population up here MUST think of themselves as Irish, the Loyalist/Unionists are telling the other half they MUST think of themselves as British or Ulster Scots.
......... God forbid you should think for yourself & deviate from either of THEIR norms!
So if you are not the one, then of course you must be the other ..... there is no room for middle ground.
Before long, of course, they'll be insisting that the growing numbers of Poles here, must finally decide whether they are now Irish Poles or British Poles!
Ptarmigan, thank you for reminding me about Northern Ireland. However, there are enough fools here in Arkansas who have that either "you are with us or against us" attitude who try to make life miserable for the rest of us who just want to have fun and enjoy ourselves by trying to make the organized noise called music.
British Poles?
Irish Poles?
German Poles?
Russian Poles?
What about the North Poles and the South Poles?
Should we try to reverse their Polarity or leave their magnetic attraction where it is?
Neat discussion, even if people see them as "wind ups" . I just taught a course on ethnography, and had a student that did a local pub's culture. A lot of her findings were actually atuned to what many are stating here. However, the pub is in a college town where St. Patrick's day, for instance, is just another excuse to get slap happy drunk. She found that what many call "plastic paddies" are actually just looking for any excuse to party and drink.
I will say, however, that I have a few friends from Ireland who love the "irish punk" thing (I like much of it also) and still like ITM as well. I don't think listening to a rock or punk band necessarily means you don't know anything of substance about your heritage beyond a bagpipe twiddle in the middle of a punk rock song.
Leave it to you Ptarmy, to hijack the thread in such an entertaining way! Just remember, there are more predictions of disaster than there are disasters!
Hey hey hey, I don't go around changing my polarity at will, OK? I know some people like to roll like that, all into that swinging thing, but not this cat, no sir.
Well fauxcelt, in a crowded session there's barely room to swing a bow, let alone a cat. Besides, my cats would be ticked if anyone tried to swing them around, a scary thought!
Come on Al Brown, don't be so pessimistic about human powers of prognostication.
Mightn't it just be that each disaster can be accurately predicted by numbers of bright people forecasting independently? That would explain the larger number of predictions than disasters...
Yes, you are correct, in a crowded session, there isn't room to swing a cat and sometimes it is difficult to find enough room to swing a bow or anything else.
Actually, I looked at the title and had to guess what you meant. It could be a spastic Paddy. My first thought was - poor guy, now they're making fun of epileptics.
Pastic Paddy
Pastic Paddy
For someone who doesnt know what a Plastic Paddy is, its someone not from Ireland but think they are bonafide Irish because their great great great great great great grandmother was half Irish or something distant like that, and as such claim Irish nationality and in doing so, feel obligated to conform to every untrue Irish stereotype known to man. Hallmarks of the Plastic Paddy include fake bad tempers, thinking red hair means Irishness, listening to Drop Kick Murphy's and thinking it genuine Irish music, idolatry of Boondock Saints which as well as being one of the worst films ever made, is also the most unIrish film ever made, drinking green beer on St. Patrick's Day, and in the face of all these things, the Plastic Paddy has never actually been to Ireland or knows anything about it whatsoever, their only grasp of Irish history being that they should hate England out of loyalty with no idea why. Plastic Paddies tend to think they can do very good Irish accents (they cant, nobody not from Ireland can do a good one, its impossible, its never been achieved in the history of tv and film.......never!!) and are only too keen to try this out when they do meet bonafide Irish people.
They reside in pretty much every English speaking country (barring Ireland of course!!) and can usually be found in tacky Irish bars slugging pints of poor guinness and spouting rhetorical nonsense about Ireland and the IRA and trying to sing along to Irish songs.
I want you to show yourselves so we can rid you of this notion that you are Irish.
__________________
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by siol nan air clannan
Re: Pastic Paddy
Just for my info. Is this what people mean when they refer to a "troll" on internet lists, or is that something much more subtle altogether?
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by grego
Re: Pastic Paddy
Perhaps there's also the Pastie Paddy, who actually lives in Cornwall, the Dyslexic Paddy, who can't even spell and doesn't think to proofread, and the Pasty Paddy, who never gets out into the sunshine.....?
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Pastic Paddy
Siol...you're sounding like a bit of a stereotype yerself!
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by skin&bow
Re: Pastic Paddy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hs3WLj_Mm0
Here are plastic paddies talkng rubbish
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by siol nan air clannan
Re: Plastic Paddy
A similar sort of question stirred up much controversy a little while ago. Are you gearing yourself up for the summer invasiion, siol ?
Of course there are many sides to every argument.......
..........I am sure there are many Irish people with little knowledge of their own culture beyond their local habits of living and socialising, who know very little of the music those of us who come on this forum know and love so much.
This attitude is not confined to Ireland. Some while ago the current Minister for the Arts in the UK declared that his particular idea of Hell would be three traditional singers in a pub in Somerset.
However, the idea that there might be a breed of, particularly Americans, who know little more of the culture they left behind, and ignorantly ape what they believe this to be, well maybe they deserve what they get.
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Pastic Paddy
Siol welcome back! It seems you're still a bit steamed up about this whole topic - first Scots who are not Scots, and now Plastic Paddy wannabes. For the life of me I can't understand why a gentleman in Scotland is so riled about about what a few goofy posers do in other countries. Did some tourist steal from you? Did they buy up all the Celtic jerseys at the Glasgow airport? Why so much angst my friend? It all just a bit of harmless diversion after all..
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Pastic Paddy
Yes grego, it's this.
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by Ramiro
Re: Pastic Paddy
How old are you...? I'm thinking maybe17..all that rage!!!!
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by lamh trom
Re: Pastic Paddy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uSkwhTIlts
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Pastic Paddy
Geez...this topic is Soooooooo Last month!
We had a great conversation about this. But at most of our ages, its hard to remember that far back!
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by zippydw
Re: Pastic Paddy
Sure, someone who comes to a pub and puts on an accent can be annoying, but people should get over it. People at sessions can seem aggressive at first and people put on an accent to try and be friendly. People should just generally calm down. I think it's ridiculous that someone with an english accent should be frowned at in a session in edinburgh.
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by WobblingFiddle
Re: Pastic Paddy
With all due respect to America , I notice that people hang on to
their ethnicity for generations and generations, I can't see any harm in it. Personally I find the Irish accent far too difficult to imitate so I masquerade as a Kiwi when bored .
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by chuneboi slim
Re: Pastic Paddy
Grego, they are normally called trolls. We seem to call what they do here 'wind-ups' though.
Just curious, do plastic paddies melt in the summer if left outside for too long, like when you'd leave an audio cassette on the dashboard of your car during a hot summer day? Just slightly dating myself there.
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Pastic Paddy
Here's a hypothetical for our man Siol - let's say a kid is born and raised in Scotland - grows up to learn all the fiddle tunes, knows Robbie Burns chapter and verse, loves haggis, and saves all five penalty kicks to give Scotland a win over England in a world cup qualifier. Is that Scottish enough for you? There's only one problem - his grandparents came to Scotland from China. Do you call him Scottish or Chinese? Do you begrudge him in any way for celebrating both traditions?
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Pastic Paddy
What's a "Pastic" Paddy? Calm down about it. Also, I thought Boondock Saints was a funny movie. I enjoyed it; I think Boys in da Hood was probably the most Un-Irish movie out there. You should be happy someone is proud of their Irish heritage, instead of denouncing it. Have a pint of Guinness and calm down.
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by pipersgrip
Re: Pastic Paddy
yanks with Nationality issues need a seperate section of this website..whats so good about being Irish Anyway. There are better countries where the State treats people better, more accountable and functioning social contingency and were there isn't such a pronounced difference between the have and the have nots. You want to aspire to somthing. Look towards Scandanavia, Finland, Sweeden. It doesnt take an economist to know America has been sold down the river . As for Ireland. Its a wee corrupt back water. Look at the dismal state of the HSE, the corrupt nature of FF administration. The Corporations have good aul Ireland by the Balls. True Irishness and its ideals have been on the backfoot for generations. Stick to the tunes.
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
Infinitely worse are the "spastic Paddys". Spilling beer on everyone, poking players in the eye with fiddle bows, missing the urinal.
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by Steve L
Re: Pastic Paddy
"his grandparents came to Scotland from China. Do you call him Scottish or Chinese? Do you begrudge him in any way for celebrating both traditions?"
Scottshness has nothing to do with wnnng goals for scotland.I actually have a friend who is racially far east asian. He does in no way consider himself chnese, do not consder him chinese n anyway, He is as scottsh as me and I am no more scottish than he is. As have stated before the scots are not a race of people, you cannot be scottish through descent, the scots are seperated by culture, geography, community and behavioural traits not race.
My race s caucasian and my cultural identty s scottsh
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by siol nan air clannan
Re: Pastic Paddy
But Siol, if your friend did wish to connect to his ancestral heritage through music or language or dance, would you begrudge him for it? Would it make him any less Scottish simply because he had an interest in Chinese cultural?
Your rant today was about Plastic Paddy's - but immature boorish behavior has it's own flag. You can find buffoons in any culture, celebrating all the worst aspects of ethnic stereotype behavior. I only point this out because I think you are lumping all people who have an interest in cultural heritage with plastic paddy behavior.
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Pastic Paddy
So is it wrong to say African American? I would like to see some of you guys tell Puerto Ricans that were born in America a Plastic Puerto Rican. Sadly, it seems that the Irish Americans are the only ones that can't claim to be or be proud of their heritage. America is a new country and a melting pot. People are separated by culture here(at least where I am from). It is different in a new country that is so full of so many different cultures and nationalities. The only way for people feel to have a National Identity is to go back to their heritage. Nobody claims to be Irish, just of Irish decent. Get over it.
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by pipersgrip
Re: Pastic Paddy
Oh, and sorry to nit-pick, but Caucasian isn't really a race of people according to most geneticists. I'm afraid you'll need to find a new identity.
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Pastic Paddy
"Sadly, it seems that the Irish Americans are the only ones that can't claim to be or be proud of their heritage."
A huge amount of britsh people have irish heritage, they dont feel the need to make a song and dance about t or give themself rdiculous hyphens like irish english or irish scot.
"America is a new country and a melting pot"
So is all of europe.
"It is different in a new country that is so full of so many different cultures and nationalities. The only way for people feel to have a National Identity is to go back to their heritage"
Americans who are born and raised in america are culturally american, they are not culturally, rish, scottish, german, japanese, gautamalin. Your national identity is american. Saying your natonal identity s irish when you have likely never even been to ireland is quite frankly a joke.
"So is it wrong to say African American?"
African americans refer to themselves as african in a racial context not a culturaly or nationalistic one. If you said you were european american you would be likely refering to you your racial identity.
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by siol nan air clannan
Re: Pastic Paddy
"Oh, and sorry to nit-pick, but Caucasian isn't really a race of people according to most geneticists. I'm afraid you'll need to find a new identity."
Well you know what I mean.
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by siol nan air clannan
Re: Pastic Paddy
Sorry, trying to follow along here - Africans, the most genetically diverse group on the planet, are one race. But Irish and Scots are not - they're European Americans? No - just Americans. Funny, my Navajo friends don't think I'm a real American. Boy this sure is getting complicated....
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Pastic Paddy
In America, it isn't like that Siol. If a Chinese guy is born in America, he is Chinese. It doesn't matter if his family has been in America for 200 years, or 2. If you look at him, you say he is Chinese. When you describe someone here, it is cultural. Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Chinese, Japanese, Jamaican, etc..... and Africans refer to themselves culturally, as do every other race here. Europe's melting pot is nothing compared to America's. You obviously have no idea at all about America, so you should no make accusations or assumptions.
"A huge amount of britsh people have irish heritage, they dont feel the need to make a song and dance about t or give themself rdiculous hyphens like irish english or irish scot."
England is not a new country. That is how people are identified in America. Like Jusa said, the real Americans are the Native ones.
I am not European American because I have no French, Italian, Portugese, Spanish, or anything else like that in my family. I am straight up of Irish/Scottish/English decent.
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by pipersgrip
Re: Pastic Paddy
Siol, it seems you are laboring under the idea that American culture is just one big thing - I assure that a kid growing up in South Boston has a different type of culture experience than a kid raised in South Los Angeles. It's not just one big episode of Bay Watch.
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Pastic Paddy
You've explained it well there whistle collector - in America I'm called Irish - but leave the country and I'm an American - funny old world isn't it?
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Pastic Paddy
"England is not a new country. That is how people are identified in America. Like Jusa said, the real Americans are the Native ones."
How old a nation is does not influence your identity or culture. just because america is newer does not mean you are not american.
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by siol nan air clannan
Re: Pastic Paddy
" in America I'm called Irish "
??????????????????
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by siol nan air clannan
Re: Pastic Paddy
Hey siol, this website is about music.
Not a soap box for racists...
there are already plenty of websites for that purpose...
Do you have anything of value to contribute here , or just more hot air?
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by jardineromi
Re: Pastic Paddy
I have met some Pollocks born in Ireland that were not considered Irish. Why is that? They have an Irish accent, and they were born and raised there. Why are they still considered Polish? I also met some Nigerians there, some of the younger ones were even born there, and yet they are still considered Nigerians. But, if someone has Irish parents here, you consider them American because they were born in America. I don't get it.
You don't know what it is like with different types of neighborhoods. You never grew up with different Irish neighborhoods, Puerto Rican, Haitian and Jamaicans, Germans, Italian, and many others. America isn't just American culture, we are not all the same. Southern people are way different for yankees, mid westerners, and west coasters. It is just too big of a country to claim one culture. It is impossible for America to be one culture. It will not happen anytime soon.
And, what does coming from N.Ireland make you? Does it make you Irish or English?
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by pipersgrip
Re: Pastic Paddy
in what way to you benifit from your seemingly high brow definition of being Irish siol..your name,which I assume is an attempt at Gaelic, isnt even spelt correctly.. Refer to my previous comment about whats so good about being Irish anyway..You aspirations are ill founded in this day and age..spend a night on the tear in Ballymun r sumwer n come back to me on that one..as the previous poster said this website is about tunes. Get over yourself
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
Let me put it this way: I am not denouncing my country. I am proud to be American. I am also proud of my Irish roots and heritage. That is how it is in America: people are proud of their heritage and cultures. That is what being American is. Is there anything wrong with that?
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by pipersgrip
Re: Pastic Paddy
"and what does coming from N.Ireland make you"
If you have to ask you wouldnt understand the awnser anyway
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
why do you feel the need to tell people..
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
what exactly is it you are proud to be american for..Your country and its people are responsible for some of the gravest crimes ever comitted to humanity
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
want a list?
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
Bring on the extraterrestrials. The arrival of the Vulcans might put a stop to all this divisiveness. This is a music site. Let's keep to the music.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by zepherin
Re: Pastic Paddy
Jeremy should delete this whole thread..
I take exeption to people like you getting away with discussion like this when I get banned for a bit of banter..I hope you get a wee email..
Bye
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
"That is how it is in America: people are proud of their heritage and cultures. That is what being American is. Is there anything wrong with that"
Your culture is AMERICAN. How can you be culturally irish without ever setting foot in ireland ?
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by siol nan air clannan
Re: Pastic Paddy
there seems to be a hollow resonant quality to your head
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
"Hey siol, this website is about music.
Not a soap box for racists..."
Racist ?
Have I once talked about race ?
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by siol nan air clannan
Re: Pastic Paddy
knock knock
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
Love the way you glide over the comment about the responsibility your country holds for some of the gravest acts against humanity..
Typically American..Go yankees
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
Let me reiterate- Jeremy should delete this whole thread..
Do you actually play Irish Music.
Mabye talk about it..All youve done so far is embarass yourself
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
Are you talking to me Trucks?
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by pipersgrip
Re: Pastic Paddy
If you want
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
try following the thread of the discussion
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
No, I like to keep the peace.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by pipersgrip
Re: Pastic Paddy
if that means you object to this thread..I am in agreement
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
I am just confused at the barrage of posts here. I have no idea anymore who is talking to who here.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by pipersgrip
Re: Pastic Paddy
As author Alex Massie wrote in National Review:
When I was a student in Dublin we scoffed at the American celebration of St. Patrick, finding something preposterous in the green beer, the search for any connection, no matter how tenuous, to Ireland, the misty sentiment of it all that seemed so at odds with the Ireland we knew and actually lived in. Who were these people dressed as Leprechauns and why were they dressed that way? This Hibernian Brigadoon was a sham, a mockery, a Shamrockery of real Ireland and a remarkable exhibition of plastic paddyness. But at least it was confined to the Irish abroad and those foreigners desperate to find some trace of green in their blood.[4]
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by siol nan air clannan
Re: Pastic Paddy
Well, it sounds like you are just asking a rhetorical question then. You obviously don't want to know, or you will just never understand. Also sounds like bigotry.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by pipersgrip
Re: Pastic Paddy
I wish I had kept track of all the little greenbacks I was paid on St. Patrick's Day over the years. At a minimum, I earned enough to buy a new fiddle, many, many sets of strings, and multiple re-hairings of my bow. One thing about those "Plastic" Paddys -- they always throw around lots of cash. I'm sure many think this is crass, but it became a way to support my music habit. And no one seemed to mind. And I don't think anyone every got hurt by any of it.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by John Culhane
Re: Pastic Paddy
i must have mistaken one of your comments for one make my the initial poster...
speaking of awnsering questions Siol, awnser this. What did you set out to achieve by starting this discussion. Is it a mode of self efficacy? Want is is you are trying to establish apart from drawing attention to the Bullheaded nature of your own culture..whatever that happens to be..We are all cut from the same cloth..Those who designate, ultimately oppress which fits into my previous sentiment about your country..which interestingly was founded by ethnic cleansing.. It seems your rhetorical renegade question is symbolic of your own dilema..or mode of self efficacy.. which in itself seems pointless as people with such ideas will rarely progress in that regard
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
What is it you are trying to establish apart from**
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
"We are all cut from the same cloth..Those who designate, ultimately oppress which fits into my previous sentiment about your country..which interestingly was founded by ethnic cleansing."
So was yours.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by siol nan air clannan
Re: Pastic Paddy
clarify that
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
maybe tell us what Siol nan air clannan means while your at it
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
Trucks Mulligan is the voice of reason here. If you live in Britain you live in the global village. Who cares if you pretend to be English, Scots or Irish anyway? Why should it bother you if people pretend to be from somewhere else? Does it really hurt you? As much as paying taxes to kill innocent civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan? We all try to play this music with an Irish accent anyway . . .
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by McDermott
Re: Pastic Paddy
What would you assume is "My" country anyway..
It seems that therin lies your problem. Maybe its not so easy to put people in boxes. I know for a fact I dont fit in yours..Nor do I own a country
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
I am just saying that culture is passed down from generation to generation. The Irish that immigrated to America passed their traditions and culture down, just like the Irish in Ireland do. That is what America is. It is all of the immigrants from their original countries passing down their cultures and traditions to their children, and it stays like that. Sorry if you have a problem with that Siol. That is what the American way and culture is. It is not one culture, but many different ones. True American culture is the Native American way.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by pipersgrip
Re: Pastic Paddy
People's illusions are without number. Why so unsympathetic? There are romantics and knuckleheads everywhere. And Irish Americans certainly don't have the market cornered on schmaltz.
But I do think there can be some genuine cultural, or subcultural, differences between an American raised in a family descended from Irish immigrants, say, and one that immigrated from Brazil. As Americans, they have lots in common, but some things that are different. It's not that controversial a point.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by 54321
Re: Pastic Paddy
I am just saying that culture is passed down from generation to generation. The Irish that immigrated to America passed their traditions and culture down,"
I disagree entirely and so do many anthropologists. There s something called the degregation of culture in ethnicity. culture is somethng that can only shape you if t s lived in everyday. culture is not tangible and cannot be passed down. There is no cultural similarity between irishman and those amercans who claim irish heritage. and by culture I am not speakng of irish music.
"That is what the American way and culture is. It is not one culture, but many different ones. "
Celebratng st patricks day once a year does not constitute irsh culture. I cannot for the life of me understand how you can say you are culturally irish.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by siol nan air clannan
Re: Pastic Paddy
yeh your probably right..dont like the ethos this discussion represents. We are all the same in death why confound life by propogating difference.. "Only by subverting identity can man stumble uopn the rudimentary principles of life"
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
Funny how people from england with scottsh parents never refer to themselvs as scots are clam to be culturally scottsh, I have english friends with scottish parents and they have only ever regarded themselves as english. Americans seem to thnk they are the only people on earth wth immigrants for parents.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by siol nan air clannan
Re: Pastic Paddy
not you..stop banging on about culture..There is no similarity between Irishmen and those americans blahblahblah"
There is a similarity, they all end up in the same place. The ground
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
Oh and would lke to add, dont know if have sad this n my other thread, my father is irish and my mother is scottish. have irish citizenship but would never embarress myself by saying to going to ireland and telling people am irish. I have lived in ireland for 5 years and I am not n the slghtest bit culturally irish. I am a forerigner and would always be regarded so by the irish.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by siol nan air clannan
Re: Pastic Paddy
what are you if you are an American but you are also from the moon..Are you perhaps a Spacer
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
what about your scottish citizenship..do you neglect the fact that you are half British and therfore a cultural calamity
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
You need to get out more Siol - immigrants and their offspring refer to themselves by heritage all over the world. Take a walk through the Arab quarter in Nice, France. Perhaps the African neighborhoods in Milan. Are you going to tell someone in Belfast they can't celebrate their Scots heritage?
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Pastic Paddy
"what about your scottish citizenship..do you neglect the fact that you are half British and therfore a cultural calamity"
What does citizenship have to do with culture ?
And am not half British, I am fully British (although I am a scottish nationalist SNP voter).
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by siol nan air clannan
Re: Pastic Paddy
Funny that my Family is from the Lower Falls and has lived in Belfast for over a Hundred years, I dont object to anyone celebrating or identifying liniage, its just pathetic when it confines you..As it would seem it does..I have an Irish passport too. To me it is a meaningless peice of paper..Yet I would happily die fighting for the music..and against people like you who seek to label me
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
and use labels to discriminate..
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
"(although I am a scottish nationalist SNP voter)
someone give the man Dogtags
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
"someone give the man Dogtags"
What ?
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by siol nan air clannan
Re: Pastic Paddy
Think about it whizzkid..
You are obviously enlisted in the Army of one.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
still not clear what you think Siol nan air clannan means
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
A bit of stupid nationalism going on here, although thinly disguised as intelligent debate. Wake up people. It doesn't mean anything or matter anymore. We live in a different age to our grandparents. Learn to live with it and accept that everything these days makes us the same, including this website.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by McDermott
Re: Pastic Paddy
Well Siol, you and your anthropologist friends can party all day together, while celebrating bigotry. You can discuss the philosophies of the plastic paddies. And, you will never fully understand what culture is. You obviously got what you wanted: an argument. Please do some research, and a few Sociology classes wouldn't hurt either. Good night.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by pipersgrip
Re: Pastic Paddy
siol, do you play music? Can't find any reference to your instrument or favourite tunes in your bio, tunelist or discussions..
Rob
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by mellow_bellows
Re: Pastic Paddy
fact...
I object to being banned from this website for banter when I have an obvious passion for the choons..Yet this Spacer posts "innane" discussions ad nausem.
I hope Jeremy deletes this. If he doesn't there is somthing amiss
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
I hope you wernt referring to me as one of those anthropogist freids of Siols..or as insighting what another poster descirbes as stupid nationalism..if that is the case you have missed my point entirely..which is the Polar opposite
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Pastic Paddy
siol, you're an absolute dolt.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Glass of Beer
Re: Pastic Paddy
Circle-jerking is not central to cultural anthropology anymore.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Lint - upon - Tweed
Re: Pastic Paddy
Whattsa matter siol? Penis kinda small? who cares what a person identifies themself as. Why's it bother you so much?
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by shanty
Re: Pastic Paddy
For me, an internet site has value only when I can learn something. I wish I had stopped reading this many posts ago.
I'll go play some tunes now, and come back when this windup blows over.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: Pastic Paddy
A cow and a pig meet up with thier old friend, the donkey, at a class reunion. The donkey asks 'Did you two drive up together?'
The cow replies'No, the swine flew'.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by shanty
Re: Pastic Paddy
What Siol is trying to say is that he doesn't quite fit in.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Lint - upon - Tweed
Re: Pastic Paddy
a cautious pig approaches a trebuchet...
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by shanty
Re: Pastic Paddy
An Irish family whose ancestors have lived in Ireland for a thousand years move to the USA and raise their children there. Now, all of a sudden, these children have no claim to be Irish anymore? Really?
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by leoj
Re: Pastic Paddy
I was going to write a big response about the cultural diversity I've encountered over the past year while living in Canada (I mean cultural diversity among Candian-born people), but I would just be feeding the trolls and wasting my time....
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Pat Mustard
Re: Pastic Paddy
*Canadian-born
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Pat Mustard
Re: Pastic Paddy
F**k me, now I'm really confused.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Patkiwi
Re: Pastic Paddy
And so are the kids...
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Patkiwi
PP
Yoda, the Wrinkled Green Muppet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di1guIh3H1k
He may only be a muppet but it doesn't make him any less of a jedi master.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Pastic Paddy
To be honest, Siol's initial post was a pretty accurate representation of what a so-called "plastic paddy" is.
But....WHO CARES???!!!
I'm amazed that all of you have actually had a " discussion" about the topic.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Dennis Regan
Siol nan air clannan .... translation!
For those of you who were wondering WTF "siol nan air clannan" actually means, I asked a Gaelic speaker for a translation & here is his reply:
"It don't mean a thing - it's just a jumble of words.
Siol does mean seed or descendants and clann is children or family, but the phrase is a nonsense.
Maybe it actually means 'bit of an eejit'."
Hmmmmmm ..... the words Head the Hit on the Nail spring to mind!
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Ptarmigan
Re: Pastic Paddy
Perhaps "siol nan air clannan" should be asked to explain what his moniker means (this should include an explanation of the grammatical structures he's used).
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Ron P
Re: Pastic Paddy
it won't happen. Back to the tunes...
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: Pastic Paddy
I suspect you're correct there Greg. As you say... back to the tunes!
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Ron P
Re: Pastic Paddy
I can't believe that this ranting troll hasn't been booted yet, along with his threads....back to the tunes sounds like a good idea to me! From now on, I avoid threads where the poster doesn't even take the time to spell the subject correctly, often a sign that things will be going downhill from there.....
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by AlBrown
Re: Pastic Paddy
Ranting Troll - what a great phrase! I can almost picture a cheesy little animated GIF which you could insert into posts. Shame my artwork's not up to it otherwise I'd create one...
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Mark Harmer
Re: Pastic Paddy
...or, a great title for a tune (to bring it back to the music)
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Mark Harmer
Re: Pastic Paddy
This board is terribly easy to troll, that's for sure.
So is this about music?
OK, so if it's about music, then there is an unbroken history of the playing of Irish music in America by those of Irish descent. There is also a history of laws in Ireland restricting the music (Dance Hall Act) as well as it being seen as 'backwards' until America showed Ireland how much money was to be made from it with the Clancies and Makem.
Now if you'll excuse me I have to go put on my green sequined pants and leprechaun hat. This Budweiser isn't going to color itself, ya know.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Pastic Paddy
You need a green jacket and two belts, too, and a pair of nice shoes:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Leprechaun_ill_artlibre_jnl.png
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Ramiro
Re: Pastic Paddy
Or this?:
http://tinyurl.com/cx9tfm
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Mark Harmer
Re: Pastic Paddy
Well, whenever THIS plastic paddy finally gets the opportunity to visit Ireland's green shores, I expect it to be EXACTLY like what I saw in "Darby Gillis and the Wee Folk".
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by pbassnote
Re: Pastic Paddy
To quote Pete Coe, talking on another subject entirely,
"Unfortunately this argument seems to have been taken over by the Nationalists, who really ought to get out more."
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Pastic Paddy
Is Billy Connolly a Partick Paddy?
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Bren
Re: Pastic Paddy
"Funny how people from england with scottsh parents never refer to themselvs as scots are clam to be culturally scottsh, I have english friends with scottish parents and they have only ever regarded themselves as english."
I have Scottish parents, was born and brought up in England, but don't regard myself as English (British is the compromise, wouldn't presume to claim Scottish).
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by minijackpot
Re: Pastic Paddy
I prefer the term "Recycled Plastic Paddy" to describe myself. Now, back to my bowl of "Lucky Charms"...
-----------
"Thousands are Sailing"
The island it is silent now
But the ghosts still haunt the waves
And the torch lights up a famished man
Who fortune could not save
Did you work upon the railroad
Did you rid the streets of crime
Were your dollars from the white house
Were they from the five and dime
Did the old songs taunt or cheer you
And did they still make you cry
Did you count the months and years
Or did your teardrops quickly dry
Ah, no, says he, 'twas not to be
On a coffin ship I came here
And I never even got so far
That they could change my name
Thousands are sailing
Across the western ocean
To a land of opportunity
That some of them will never see
Fortune prevailing
Across the western ocean
Their bellies full
Their spirits free
They'll break the chains of poverty
And they'll dance
In Manhattan's desert twilight
In the death of afternoon
We stepped hand in hand on Broadway
Like the first man on the moon
And "The Blackbird" broke the silence
As you whistled it so sweet
And in Brendan Behan's footsteps
I danced up and down the street
Then we said goodnight to Broadway
Giving it our best regards
Tipped our hats to Mister Cohan
Dear old Times Square's favorite bard
Then we raised a glass to JFK
And a dozen more besides
When I got back to my empty room
I suppose I must have cried
Thousands are sailing
Again across the ocean
Where the hand of opportunity
Draws tickets in a lottery
Postcards we're mailing
Of sky-blue skies and oceans
From rooms the daylight never sees
Where lights don't glow on Christmas trees
But we dance to the music
And we dance
Thousands are sailing
Across the western ocean
Where the hand of opportunity
Draws tickets in a lottery
Where e'er we go, we celebrate
The land that makes us refugees
From fear of Priests with empty plates
From guilt and weeping effigies
And we dance
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by GDub
Plastic Traddy
Plastic Traddy - an obnoxious troll on the discussion board of a traditional music website who actually does not have any interest in discussing music.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by halfwaythere
Re: Pastic Paddy
After reading through this discussion, I feel like quoting the words from the song "Plastic Paddy" by Eric Bogle but I won't do that because the words are available on his web site.
When some of my ancestors first came here from England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales, there weren't enough "European" women to marry so some of them married native women.
Since then, my ancestors have moved around quite a bit. On one side of the family, they moved to Arkansas from somewhere else shortly after Arkansas became a state.
They owned and operated a plantation in Columbia County in south Arkansas. When a certain most (Un)Civil War started, they owned more land in Columbia County than anyone else in that county.
There are still people in this country who think I should be blamed and should feel guilty because my ancestors were slave owners but I don't agree with that idea because I have no control over what happened in the past. I don't approve of slavery, either, and think it is wrong.
This was my maternal grandmother's family.
My maternal grandfather's family, on the other hand, were poor tenant farmers or what were usually called "dirt-poor sharecroppers" in Columbia County.
On my father's side of the family, they have moved around a lot from Tennessee to Alabama to Texas to Oklahoma or from Indiana to Oklahoma.
My father was born and raised in Oklahoma but he went to college in Illinois. When my father had finished college and earned his degree in metereology, he applied for a job and was hired by the University of Chicago to do weather research. While he was living and working there, he met and married my mother (who was born and raised in Arkansas). As a result, I was born and raised in Chicago but I live in Arkansas now.
So which of these places should I identify with? The Great State of Chicago (he asked sarcastically)? Chicago and the seven or eight surrounding counties in northeastern Illinois are almost a separate state unto themselves. Maybe I should tell people I am a native of Illinois where political offices are For Sale.
With a background this mixed, should I even be trying to play Irish or Scottish music?
Yes, I am being sarcastic and tongue-in-cheek after reading all of the comments in this discussion thread.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: Pastic Paddy
That's the whole point of this thread Fauxcelt - you're free to choose any aspects of your personal heritage you wish to enjoy - or not. It's up to you. Although I don't think Siol is a racist, I disagree in the strongest terms with his demands to impose his personal mindset on how people choose to define themselves.
SWFL - I've misplaced my Plastic Paddy green beer formula - is it one part food coloring to 4 parts Coors Lite? Damn - and the guy who had the formula for ice moved back to Colorado - we're screwed come next march 17th.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Pastic Paddy
Raise a glass to JFK? But he was a plastic paddy!
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Kheelch
Re: Pastic Paddy
Food coloring! Now why didn't I think of that? What am I going to do with all this green paint?
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Pastic Paddy
LOL - I remember the first time we tried green paint, good times, good times. They're still trying to scrub it all off the stalls in the loo
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Pastic Paddy
Copper green, neat from the can, is pretty good too. Beer only spoils it.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: Pastic Paddy
Aha... the crux of the original poster: "I am not speakng of irish music. "
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by wyogal
Re: Pastic Paddy
I was also trying to be silly and ridiculous in an effort to point how stupid and absurd some of the comments are and I guess I succeeded better than I expected.
JNE, I completely agree with your statement about not liking other people trying to impose their personal mindset on how I choose to define myself either.
I will pass on the green beer, though. My favorite type of beer is actually brown in color and I don't think adding green food coloring (or green paint, SWFL Fiddler) would improve it in any way whatsoever.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: Pastic Paddy
It's one of the best post I read here in the past few months. I love it!!!
# Posted on May 3rd 2009 by Azalin
Re: Pastic Paddy
Here's an old thread on this subject http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/19803/comments#comment414667
# Posted on May 4th 2009 by Hup
Re: http://www.thesession.org/members/display/55734
Robert Ryan gave the topic his best while it lasted;
Re: Is racism acceptable on Thesession.org?
November 25th 2008 by AlBrown
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/19803/comments#comment415543
# Posted on May 4th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Pastic Paddy
The background of *rising fawn*, cited above, could be that of someone I know; indeed, I strongly suspect that it is.
This person is functionally numerate, an attribute traditionally confined in the UK to Scots. Only Brown and Darling have the advanced maths to count the number of noughts in the UK national debt, for instance, and centuries of cattle-raiding taught them not only how to add / subtract / multiply / divide figures, but also how to hide them in caves and bring them back out again when it was safe, make them look entirely different, and sell them on.
I do not accuse this person of these dark arts, but she seems to be a walking chronicle of special offers and beer festival prices long consigned to kindly oblivion by feebler memories. She could probably draw a graph illustrating the staggering inverse relationship between the price and the value of Newcastle United players over the last quarter-century, and lay this bare for all time in a scarifying formula, possibly initiating far-reaching social change - like putting the b*****s back on fifty quid a week till they pull their fingers out and score some goals again.
I cannot remember when she last bought me a drink.
Though brought up far from her ancestral land, she was raised in the knowledge of obscure Clydeside union enforcers and the belief they should be running the country. This heritage she seems to have laid aside, as she cannot remember who they were. (But then, these days, neither can Thatcher.) But, like forgotten history generally, it may resurrect as alarming and bloodcurdling myth, leading to admiration of Mel Gibson, e.g. We are not out of the woods yet.
She's Scottish.
# Posted on May 4th 2009 by nicholas
Re: Pastic Paddy
Oh, and admiration of foul specialist malts brewed up by theocrats in St. Kilda or somewhere - I suspect she has reached this stage already...
# Posted on May 4th 2009 by nicholas
Re: Pastic Paddy
i've just trolled down through all this and am not amused
sorry siol but you can **** off over that opening post and it's offending markers _ haven't you thought about the real ones
i don't have to pretend to be anything more than i am but to the likes of you i will always be less than anything i could ever aspire to more, culturally speaking, but where i am is over your heads
i won't humour discontenters who should know better but i'll rejoice in the next session i play in the safe knowledge of me, my family, my life now and where ive stemmed from . . .
i know Irishism and am a proud Irishman of South London stock
# Posted on May 5th 2009 by lisaniska
Re: Pastic Paddy
fauxcelt wrote:
"I completely agree with your statement about not liking other people trying to impose their personal mindset on how I choose to define myself either."
You should try living in Northern Ireland then, where that kind of stuff is a part of everyday life!
Up here, both sides play the old, "If yer no wi' us, then yer agin us!" card.
So while the Republican/Nationalists are insisting that half the population up here MUST think of themselves as Irish, the Loyalist/Unionists are telling the other half they MUST think of themselves as British or Ulster Scots.
......... God forbid you should think for yourself & deviate from either of THEIR norms!
So if you are not the one, then of course you must be the other ..... there is no room for middle ground.
Before long, of course, they'll be insisting that the growing numbers of Poles here, must finally decide whether they are now Irish Poles or British Poles!
# Posted on May 5th 2009 by Ptarmigan
Re: Pastic Paddy
That's probably less of a drag than having to decide whether to be a German Pole or a Russian Pole.
(NB - the person I suspected of being rising fawn, wasn't...)
# Posted on May 5th 2009 by nicholas
Re: Pastic Paddy
Ptarmigan, thank you for reminding me about Northern Ireland. However, there are enough fools here in Arkansas who have that either "you are with us or against us" attitude who try to make life miserable for the rest of us who just want to have fun and enjoy ourselves by trying to make the organized noise called music.
British Poles?
Irish Poles?
German Poles?
Russian Poles?
What about the North Poles and the South Poles?
Should we try to reverse their Polarity or leave their magnetic attraction where it is?
# Posted on May 5th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: Pastic Paddy
...and on certain nights in certain establishments, you can go and see the ladies dance suggestively with a pole.
...which is neither here nor there, obviously. Magnetism is involved though, to be sure.
# Posted on May 5th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Plastic Paddies
We call them Polymer Patricks...
# Posted on May 5th 2009 by Cath
Re: Pastic Paddy
Neat discussion, even if people see them as "wind ups" . I just taught a course on ethnography, and had a student that did a local pub's culture. A lot of her findings were actually atuned to what many are stating here. However, the pub is in a college town where St. Patrick's day, for instance, is just another excuse to get slap happy drunk. She found that what many call "plastic paddies" are actually just looking for any excuse to party and drink.
I will say, however, that I have a few friends from Ireland who love the "irish punk" thing (I like much of it also) and still like ITM as well. I don't think listening to a rock or punk band necessarily means you don't know anything of substance about your heritage beyond a bagpipe twiddle in the middle of a punk rock song.
# Posted on May 5th 2009 by Fiddlechick7
Re: Pastic Paddy
fauxcelt wrote:
"What about the North Poles and the South Poles? Should we try to reverse their Polarity or leave their magnetic attraction where it is?"
Well 'Pole Reversal' may actually be happening sooner than you think!
http://www.survive2012.com/geryl1.php
# Posted on May 5th 2009 by Ptarmigan
Re: Pastic Paddy
Thank you for posting that link, Ptarmigan. It was interesting reading.
# Posted on May 5th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: Pastic Paddy
Leave it to you Ptarmy, to hijack the thread in such an entertaining way! Just remember, there are more predictions of disaster than there are disasters!
# Posted on May 6th 2009 by AlBrown
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2001-01/978986980.Es.r.html
Re: how does magnetic polarity on the ocean floor support plate techtonics?
# Posted on May 6th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Pastic Paddy
Hey hey hey, I don't go around changing my polarity at will, OK? I know some people like to roll like that, all into that swinging thing, but not this cat, no sir.
# Posted on May 6th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Pastic Paddy
SWFL Fiddler, do you actually have enough room to swing a cat?
Since none of my ancestors came from Poland, does that mean I have no Polarity?
# Posted on May 6th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: Pastic Paddy
Well fauxcelt, in a crowded session there's barely room to swing a bow, let alone a cat. Besides, my cats would be ticked if anyone tried to swing them around, a scary thought!
# Posted on May 6th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Pastic Paddy
Come on Al Brown, don't be so pessimistic about human powers of prognostication.
Mightn't it just be that each disaster can be accurately predicted by numbers of bright people forecasting independently? That would explain the larger number of predictions than disasters...
# Posted on May 6th 2009 by nicholas
Re: Pastic Paddy
Yes, you are correct, in a crowded session, there isn't room to swing a cat and sometimes it is difficult to find enough room to swing a bow or anything else.
# Posted on May 6th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: Pastic Paddy
Actually, I looked at the title and had to guess what you meant. It could be a spastic Paddy. My first thought was - poor guy, now they're making fun of epileptics.
# Posted on May 14th 2009 by Micheál