Thinking here of recordings rather than live performance or session-playing, why does it seem to be so much easier to be critical of your own playing? I have torn (most of) my hair out in editing some recordings of my own stuff, and yet the last two CDs I did of other people's work, I applied the same standards but didn't beat myself up over every mistake, I just got on and worked with the material I had to work with.
I think some self-criticism is right - otherwise, why would you bother improving and how would you know what to work on?
Playing in my band I don't have these particular doubts (there's always someone else to glare at, after all!) but they seem to surface with any solo work.
Anyone recognise this or willing to share experiences / insights / ideas - perhaps on how to achieve a healthy balance of self-criticism while avoiding the extremes of either being unreasonably pleased with having no talent or crawling and hiding under the nearest rock?
Play your recording for other people and listen to their opinions on it. If you trust them, point out mistakes you feel should be bettered and if they say "I didn't even notice", they're probably right. Everyone is bound to be more critical of their own stuff!
Mark, I think it's probably less to do with issues over the music (after all, it's hardly to 'blame') and likely more to do with unresolved issues within ourselves. There are social filters (for good reason) for being overly and publicly critical of others, but with oneself those filters are often not in place in quite the same way. Where I work a number of people study pefectionism...while on the one hand striving to do better is a good thing, when it gets out of hand it actually is a bad thing. Perfectionists lack the ability to judge with perspective...that is, they've lost self perspectifve (or never had it). Interestingly it is as a syndrome also linked to procrastination....that is, I'll put it off cuz I can't do it perfectly.
Same problem here Mark, I can't record myself, I'm never happy with it. I am content when I play regularly however. I don't mean "Wow, I'm so awesome" I mean "Well, that was fine, that'll do, a little bit better on the X with the Y next time" but when I record it and listen to it it sounds awful.
Maybe if I was in one of those fancy bizillion dollar studios.
Anyway, the flute player in the band does the engineering work now, he's freed me from it, probably because we'd never get anything done if I was doing it.
I'm the same Mark. Sometimes I record something, and am fairly happy with how it sounds when the fiddle is under my ear. Then I playback the recording and I could almost cry... Yet others don't seem to notice the difference much.
I wonder is it like when you hear a recording of your own voice, and you think "I don't sound like that, do I?". Maybe the same applies to playing our instruments.
I have to admit, it's put me off doing any kind of solo recording. I don't mind playing live, or being involved in a recording with other musicians though.
Maybe it's just an unreasonable complex we have? As I said, other people don't seem to notice the same difference in the recorded version.
We know what we meant to do and how it didn't come out that way, but others only know how it came out on the recording, so they don't hear the discrepancy.
Bear in mind that for some instruments that are very close to the ear (fiddle, flute & whistle come to mind) there's always
*also* the aspect of having to get used to the fact that it really sounds different a bit away from the ear. We've all experienced this with a recording of something we said....
Cheap recording devices don't help as well, especially if you listen to the tiny speakers they have. It's interesting to be able to compare your playing from a studio recording with that of other studio recordings.
I think we are naturally hard on ourselves. I can always find something to be improved upon. I even can find something to criticize with the way my voice sounds played back on an anwering machine... LOL. I think recognizing that you are hard on yourself is the first step. I like the advice of seeing how others perceive the recording. Might be the recording equipment as well???
I'm sure there is a thing called Microphone Syndrome, where the sight of a mike turns your fingers to glue and your brain to butter. I once went to a recording studio with two friends to record a selection of jigs for an LP of various local artists. I had intended playing Bill Collins-Coleraine-The Cliffs of Moher. A selection I could play in my sleep. When it came to the second part of Coleraine I just couldn't play it, and in the end we had to opt for a different selection altogether. Just as well the LP was never issued. Yet, I was once part of an hour long programme of Trad on local radio where I had to play live about four different selections during the programe. While I was playing, the thought kept running through my head "What if you break down?". I didn't, but I hated listening to myself on play back...Everyone said it was great...maybe they were being kind because I thought it was crap!
I think there are a few things to take into account which may tie into the self perception idea........
Understanding and perhaps accepting ones own strengths, weaknesses, limitations helps to achieve a balance
Circumstances play a part too perhaps more so for those who play or record music as a hobby
If you are recording yourself in a home studio environment with half decent gear but perhaps have limited access to other musicians....then you have to realise that it is a big ask to do everything by yourself and produce consistent quality at every stage of recording and playing
You also may have limited time to put into your project if you have a day job outside of music
If you are recording on your own and multi tracking, it can be even harder to pull a song or tune set together and create a vibe or live feel to the music
Google something like the Belbin self perception theory model
if you are interested.
At the end of the day your perception and other peoples perception of you will always differ and in most cases quite significantly
Mark, we all want to be the best we can be musically. We need to separate the perfectionist inclinations that drive us to really play better, from the ones that, being human, we all have a little of, wanting others to like us, our playing and maybe if carried away with it in some there is a need to be thought of as "the best".
Long ago I realized I will never be the best and stopped caring, and also realized not everyone will like my playing, but retained the perfectionist tendencies that will make my music or art or whatever else, the best that i can do within my capabilities. If there are some mistakes so be it. That attitude is also very freeing, it was the thing that knocked out stage fright too, I can play to three people or a thousand and have no nervousness at all. I know mistakes will be made and accept that. On recordings I leave a few too small to bother with, they do make you human after all!
The most refreshing comment I ever heard on this subject was from Alan Morrisroe the great melodeon player, who said that mistakes are natural in the music played in its most natural settings. He even refused to let me edit his mistakes out of a live concert CD, because the recording would be unnatural sounding. I never met anyone else (including my own recordings!) who was so brave and unegotistical of their music as he is. Not that he makes many mistakes, but listen closely and he does make some. I am pretty good with fixing mistakes and editing, but he wouldn't have any of that!
Also, when you play so carefully so that you make no mistakes, it's really easy to loose the passion in the playing. Play from your heart with enthusiasm, and if you make a few mistakes, just keep going.
Mark, I love your harp clips on youtube and I sure don't hear mistakes or if they are there I never focused on them one bit! Maybe that's the key, as somneone said, let others judge.
Perfectionistic and obsessive people though, they are the vehicle to bring the music to some incredible heights, and many of them do, and many are neurotic, tortured and compulsive personalities, yet they contribute much to the music!
As for editing one's own goofs, I would take out the most glaring is all. Then let a friend hear it. No one hears the little mistakes I made on recordings unless pointed out to them. Even then they don't care. I have never been nearly as critical of others as I am of myself, but have learned to relax about it a lot.
BB----Nothing like live concert or session recordings, even with warts, often people play too carefully in the studio, there is a certain spontenaiety missing, though there are many studio recordings I do love.
Still, when doing a live session recording, I always ask if people want to be edited on any mistakes! If anything is even questionable they always get to hear an emailed MP3 of themselves first. Usually the answer is yes, but that doesn't detract from the livliness of the recording though. Just paste a good part over the bad. Sometimes it's worth saving a great live track this way. We use the recordings as an in house fundraiser to support our session. the players use them for practice and tune learning. They are also welcome to record with their own recorders too, our CDs just are more organized, cut into tracks etc. Any audience/listeners can get them too if they enjoyed to music from a particular night. We've got about 37 of these thus far, and many of us treasure them, it's sort of like snapshots of a great time, as well as being good to practice too at home.
Self-criticism vs criticism of others
Self-criticism vs criticism of others
Thinking here of recordings rather than live performance or session-playing, why does it seem to be so much easier to be critical of your own playing? I have torn (most of) my hair out in editing some recordings of my own stuff, and yet the last two CDs I did of other people's work, I applied the same standards but didn't beat myself up over every mistake, I just got on and worked with the material I had to work with.
I think some self-criticism is right - otherwise, why would you bother improving and how would you know what to work on?
Playing in my band I don't have these particular doubts (there's always someone else to glare at, after all!) but they seem to surface with any solo work.
Anyone recognise this or willing to share experiences / insights / ideas - perhaps on how to achieve a healthy balance of self-criticism while avoiding the extremes of either being unreasonably pleased with having no talent or crawling and hiding under the nearest rock?
# Posted on April 28th 2009 by Mark Harmer
Re: Self-criticism vs criticism of others
Play your recording for other people and listen to their opinions on it. If you trust them, point out mistakes you feel should be bettered and if they say "I didn't even notice", they're probably right. Everyone is bound to be more critical of their own stuff!
# Posted on April 28th 2009 by jlocky
Re: Self-criticism vs criticism of others
Why bother if it's such a pain?
# Posted on April 28th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Self-criticism vs criticism of others
Mark, I think it's probably less to do with issues over the music (after all, it's hardly to 'blame') and likely more to do with unresolved issues within ourselves. There are social filters (for good reason) for being overly and publicly critical of others, but with oneself those filters are often not in place in quite the same way. Where I work a number of people study pefectionism...while on the one hand striving to do better is a good thing, when it gets out of hand it actually is a bad thing. Perfectionists lack the ability to judge with perspective...that is, they've lost self perspectifve (or never had it). Interestingly it is as a syndrome also linked to procrastination....that is, I'll put it off cuz I can't do it perfectly.
# Posted on April 28th 2009 by skin&bow
Re: Self-criticism vs criticism of others
Same problem here Mark, I can't record myself, I'm never happy with it. I am content when I play regularly however. I don't mean "Wow, I'm so awesome" I mean "Well, that was fine, that'll do, a little bit better on the X with the Y next time" but when I record it and listen to it it sounds awful.
Maybe if I was in one of those fancy bizillion dollar studios.
Anyway, the flute player in the band does the engineering work now, he's freed me from it, probably because we'd never get anything done if I was doing it.
# Posted on April 28th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Self-criticism vs criticism of others
I'm the same Mark. Sometimes I record something, and am fairly happy with how it sounds when the fiddle is under my ear. Then I playback the recording and I could almost cry... Yet others don't seem to notice the difference much.
I wonder is it like when you hear a recording of your own voice, and you think "I don't sound like that, do I?". Maybe the same applies to playing our instruments.
I have to admit, it's put me off doing any kind of solo recording. I don't mind playing live, or being involved in a recording with other musicians though.
Maybe it's just an unreasonable complex we have? As I said, other people don't seem to notice the same difference in the recorded version.
# Posted on April 28th 2009 by tradshark
Re: Self-criticism vs criticism of others
We know what we meant to do and how it didn't come out that way, but others only know how it came out on the recording, so they don't hear the discrepancy.
# Posted on April 28th 2009 by kennedy
Re: Self-criticism vs criticism of others
Rule 1: Don't listen to any commercial recording you make of yourself for at least 6 months...
# Posted on April 28th 2009 by Michael Eskin
Re: Self-criticism vs criticism of others
Bear in mind that for some instruments that are very close to the ear (fiddle, flute & whistle come to mind) there's always
*also* the aspect of having to get used to the fact that it really sounds different a bit away from the ear. We've all experienced this with a recording of something we said....
Cheap recording devices don't help as well, especially if you listen to the tiny speakers they have. It's interesting to be able to compare your playing from a studio recording with that of other studio recordings.
# Posted on April 28th 2009 by Henk Bos
Re: Self-criticism vs criticism of others
I think we are naturally hard on ourselves. I can always find something to be improved upon. I even can find something to criticize with the way my voice sounds played back on an anwering machine... LOL. I think recognizing that you are hard on yourself is the first step. I like the advice of seeing how others perceive the recording. Might be the recording equipment as well???
# Posted on April 28th 2009 by Fiddlechick7
Re: Self-criticism vs criticism of others
I'm sure there is a thing called Microphone Syndrome, where the sight of a mike turns your fingers to glue and your brain to butter. I once went to a recording studio with two friends to record a selection of jigs for an LP of various local artists. I had intended playing Bill Collins-Coleraine-The Cliffs of Moher. A selection I could play in my sleep. When it came to the second part of Coleraine I just couldn't play it, and in the end we had to opt for a different selection altogether. Just as well the LP was never issued. Yet, I was once part of an hour long programme of Trad on local radio where I had to play live about four different selections during the programe. While I was playing, the thought kept running through my head "What if you break down?". I didn't, but I hated listening to myself on play back...Everyone said it was great...maybe they were being kind because I thought it was crap!
# Posted on April 28th 2009 by Free Reed
Re: Self-criticism vs criticism of others
im with Mr.Eskin, give it time and you might have a fresher perspective.... works for me anyway
# Posted on April 28th 2009 by harping niamh
Re: Self-criticism vs criticism of others
I think there are a few things to take into account which may tie into the self perception idea........
Understanding and perhaps accepting ones own strengths, weaknesses, limitations helps to achieve a balance
Circumstances play a part too perhaps more so for those who play or record music as a hobby
If you are recording yourself in a home studio environment with half decent gear but perhaps have limited access to other musicians....then you have to realise that it is a big ask to do everything by yourself and produce consistent quality at every stage of recording and playing
You also may have limited time to put into your project if you have a day job outside of music
If you are recording on your own and multi tracking, it can be even harder to pull a song or tune set together and create a vibe or live feel to the music
Google something like the Belbin self perception theory model
if you are interested.
At the end of the day your perception and other peoples perception of you will always differ and in most cases quite significantly
Never the Twain shall meet
pkev
# Posted on April 28th 2009 by pkev
Re: Self-criticism vs criticism of others
Mark, we all want to be the best we can be musically. We need to separate the perfectionist inclinations that drive us to really play better, from the ones that, being human, we all have a little of, wanting others to like us, our playing and maybe if carried away with it in some there is a need to be thought of as "the best".
Long ago I realized I will never be the best and stopped caring, and also realized not everyone will like my playing, but retained the perfectionist tendencies that will make my music or art or whatever else, the best that i can do within my capabilities. If there are some mistakes so be it. That attitude is also very freeing, it was the thing that knocked out stage fright too, I can play to three people or a thousand and have no nervousness at all. I know mistakes will be made and accept that. On recordings I leave a few too small to bother with, they do make you human after all!
The most refreshing comment I ever heard on this subject was from Alan Morrisroe the great melodeon player, who said that mistakes are natural in the music played in its most natural settings. He even refused to let me edit his mistakes out of a live concert CD, because the recording would be unnatural sounding. I never met anyone else (including my own recordings!) who was so brave and unegotistical of their music as he is. Not that he makes many mistakes, but listen closely and he does make some. I am pretty good with fixing mistakes and editing, but he wouldn't have any of that!
Also, when you play so carefully so that you make no mistakes, it's really easy to loose the passion in the playing. Play from your heart with enthusiasm, and if you make a few mistakes, just keep going.
Mark, I love your harp clips on youtube and I sure don't hear mistakes or if they are there I never focused on them one bit! Maybe that's the key, as somneone said, let others judge.
Perfectionistic and obsessive people though, they are the vehicle to bring the music to some incredible heights, and many of them do, and many are neurotic, tortured and compulsive personalities, yet they contribute much to the music!
As for editing one's own goofs, I would take out the most glaring is all. Then let a friend hear it. No one hears the little mistakes I made on recordings unless pointed out to them. Even then they don't care. I have never been nearly as critical of others as I am of myself, but have learned to relax about it a lot.
# Posted on April 29th 2009 by irisnevins
Re: Self-criticism vs criticism of others
I like recorings that sound real, warts and all. I mean where is the talent, Enya or sound man Nicky Ryan?
It can be over done.
# Posted on April 30th 2009 by bodhran bliss
Re: Self-criticism vs criticism of others
BB----Nothing like live concert or session recordings, even with warts, often people play too carefully in the studio, there is a certain spontenaiety missing, though there are many studio recordings I do love.
Still, when doing a live session recording, I always ask if people want to be edited on any mistakes! If anything is even questionable they always get to hear an emailed MP3 of themselves first. Usually the answer is yes, but that doesn't detract from the livliness of the recording though. Just paste a good part over the bad. Sometimes it's worth saving a great live track this way. We use the recordings as an in house fundraiser to support our session. the players use them for practice and tune learning. They are also welcome to record with their own recorders too, our CDs just are more organized, cut into tracks etc. Any audience/listeners can get them too if they enjoyed to music from a particular night. We've got about 37 of these thus far, and many of us treasure them, it's sort of like snapshots of a great time, as well as being good to practice too at home.
# Posted on April 30th 2009 by irisnevins
Re: Self-criticism vs criticism of others
'As for editing one's own goofs, I would take out the most glaring is all.'
Isn't that a bit dishonest?
# Posted on May 1st 2009 by McDermott