Last night, at a Liz Carroll & John Doyle concert in Ottawa, Canada, I was impressed by the economy of movement they both employ (Liz moreso) in bringing brilliant sound out of their instruments - even at warp speed . They set a mighty groove with two acoustic instruments, nuanced and articulate all the while, and the total antithesis of the bow-flailing showboating lamented in an earlier thread.
We saw them a few months back at the World Folk Music Organization in Beverly (Illinois). She Also had Billy McComiskey playing in. John Devin also played in on bodhran. There is economy and they are really wonderful players.
The nice thing is that she has gotten away from the riffs she seemed to stick to several years back when she released her Lake effect CD. They are nice Riffs, but they showed up in everything for a while.
She also is very good with informal groups. We saw her at a benefit at Gaelic Park here in Chicago and they had a group of twenty or so fiddle students. SHe worked with them and made them sound very good.
But is it true that she needs a mike to be really heard, perhaps exactly because she uses so little bow? I've heard ear wittnesses who stated that her playing is so silent that she hardly comes through in a session.
Drone, how I envy you. John Doyle is one of my favourite musicians. I saw him play in London early last year. The only extra movement was that little move of the neck he does. Real talent doesn't need gimmicks. It speaks for itself.
I've heard Liz play acoustically several times, and she comes through just fine. The thought that she might be a quiet player never entered into my head until I read this thread.
That said, I've certainly heard much louder fiddlers -- the sort that sound like they came up trying to compete with a loud accordion player or maybe electric guitar. Ugh.
In the interview, Carroll states that she had a new fiddle because the old one was not loud enough! Perhaps that has rectified the concern of some?
She also has a quiet speaking voice.
Seconded on her coming through acoustic...or otherwise
Sound issues are her acoustic guy's.
I don't think the bowing is an issue. I am a box player and we can play over most. Liz Carrol's play comes through loud and clear. Heard her at Petrillo Band Shell a few years ago....alot of Grant park to fill with sound... and she was crisp and distinct.
I am less of fan of Doyle. Great guitarist...alot of show boat.
As far as Liz Carroll go's I've only ever heard her on albums and on the radio. My favorite being "Liz Caroll" the one she did with Daithi Sproule, that included the western reel and so many other fantastic tunes. Trian II & In play that she did with Mr Doyle are also VG IMO.
henk--i listened to an interview once where she said she had to buy a new fiddle because no one could hear her in sessions. she said that apparently without her knowing, everyone else had slowly been getting louder fiddles, and she was playing on a fiddle that she liked the tone yet wasnt garishly loud.
From the subject line I figured they were having a sale or something.
Yes, with fiddles certainly, and probably any instrument, it's a lot more enjoyable and successful to play music gently, with economy, like you're simply speaking, as opposed TO USING ALL CAPS AND YELLING like some of those sessions I'm sure we've all seen where it seems like everyone is sitting around screaming at each other with their instruments.
The fiddlers I've always admired the most seem to be the ones that appear effortless.
The secret to playing the fiddle really fast with one bow stroke per note is to use very short bow strokes - perhaps no more than an inch of movement. As for playing louder if you have a fiddle that's not so loud, and don't wish to change it, then you can use strings with more penetration (Zyex, Visions for example) or play as close as you can to the bridge. Also, some bows produce a bigger tone and have less bowing "hiss" than others, so that's worth looking into.
Too much bow pressure will kill the tone.
When I see people frantically thrashing their bows, I like to go the in the
opposite Slibh Luacra direction and smooth it out. It's amazing how how
you can rock along at high speed with little effort and great rhythm that
way. I don't play that way all the time, but it's fascinating to listen to
Padraig O'Keefe and the Ó Raghallaighs - how a tune can rock and flow
at the same time.
I'm trying to reconcile that style with Andy McGann's - LOL - it can't be
done - I want to emulate both styles at the same time.
That famous video of John Sheahan of The Dubliners and the pop-classical violinist Andre Rieu playing The Irish Washerwoman on a TV show - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM6SeArtAco - says it all about bow thrashing and economy of bowing respectively.
Liz Carroll & John Doyle - economy
Liz Carroll & John Doyle - economy
Last night, at a Liz Carroll & John Doyle concert in Ottawa, Canada, I was impressed by the economy of movement they both employ (Liz moreso) in bringing brilliant sound out of their instruments - even at warp speed . They set a mighty groove with two acoustic instruments, nuanced and articulate all the while, and the total antithesis of the bow-flailing showboating lamented in an earlier thread.
# Posted on April 25th 2009 by drone
Re: Liz Carroll & John Doyle - economy
We saw them a few months back at the World Folk Music Organization in Beverly (Illinois). She Also had Billy McComiskey playing in. John Devin also played in on bodhran. There is economy and they are really wonderful players.
The nice thing is that she has gotten away from the riffs she seemed to stick to several years back when she released her Lake effect CD. They are nice Riffs, but they showed up in everything for a while.
She also is very good with informal groups. We saw her at a benefit at Gaelic Park here in Chicago and they had a group of twenty or so fiddle students. SHe worked with them and made them sound very good.
# Posted on April 25th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Liz Carroll & John Doyle - economy
But is it true that she needs a mike to be really heard, perhaps exactly because she uses so little bow? I've heard ear wittnesses who stated that her playing is so silent that she hardly comes through in a session.
# Posted on April 25th 2009 by Henk Bos
Re: Liz Carroll & John Doyle - economy
Drone, how I envy you. John Doyle is one of my favourite musicians. I saw him play in London early last year. The only extra movement was that little move of the neck he does. Real talent doesn't need gimmicks. It speaks for itself.
# Posted on April 25th 2009 by sashiko calico
Re: Liz Carroll & John Doyle - economy
Suddenly remembered this is one of my sources......
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/2042
# Posted on April 25th 2009 by Henk Bos
Re: Liz Carroll & John Doyle - economy
By chance I was just listening to an NPR interview w/Liz Carroll;
Chicago Fiddler's Music Is a Hit in Ireland
By Melissa Block
All Things Considered, February 24, 2006
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5232287
# Posted on April 25th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Liz Carroll & John Doyle - economy
I've heard Liz play acoustically several times, and she comes through just fine. The thought that she might be a quiet player never entered into my head until I read this thread.
That said, I've certainly heard much louder fiddlers -- the sort that sound like they came up trying to compete with a loud accordion player or maybe electric guitar. Ugh.
# Posted on April 25th 2009 by Sol Foster
Re: Liz Carroll & John Doyle - economy
Hey Random... great interview, with nice insight into Liz's approach to the Music. Cheers.
# Posted on April 25th 2009 by drone
Re: Liz Carroll & John Doyle - economy
In the interview, Carroll states that she had a new fiddle because the old one was not loud enough! Perhaps that has rectified the concern of some?
She also has a quiet speaking voice.
# Posted on April 25th 2009 by oldstrings
Re: Liz Carroll & John Doyle - economy
I was curious to find out who she got her fiddle from and she emailed me that it was made by Raymond Schryer in Ontario.
# Posted on April 25th 2009 by leoj
Re: Liz Carroll & John Doyle - economy
Regarding Doyle, I think that economy of motion is one of the only reasons he can keep up the rapid pace of strumming that he maintains.
# Posted on April 26th 2009 by AlBrown
Re: Liz Carroll & John Doyle - economy
Seconded on her coming through acoustic...or otherwise
Sound issues are her acoustic guy's.
I don't think the bowing is an issue. I am a box player and we can play over most. Liz Carrol's play comes through loud and clear. Heard her at Petrillo Band Shell a few years ago....alot of Grant park to fill with sound... and she was crisp and distinct.
I am less of fan of Doyle. Great guitarist...alot of show boat.
# Posted on April 26th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Liz Carroll & John Doyle - economy
I quite like Doyle's guitar playing TBH.
As far as Liz Carroll go's I've only ever heard her on albums and on the radio. My favorite being "Liz Caroll" the one she did with Daithi Sproule, that included the western reel and so many other fantastic tunes. Trian II & In play that she did with Mr Doyle are also VG IMO.
# Posted on April 26th 2009 by Solidmahog
Re: Liz Carroll & John Doyle - economy
henk--i listened to an interview once where she said she had to buy a new fiddle because no one could hear her in sessions. she said that apparently without her knowing, everyone else had slowly been getting louder fiddles, and she was playing on a fiddle that she liked the tone yet wasnt garishly loud.
# Posted on April 26th 2009 by daiv
Re: Liz Carroll & John Doyle - economy
Good story, daiv. Yes, the world is getting noisier day by day.......
# Posted on April 26th 2009 by Henk Bos
Re: Liz Carroll & John Doyle - economy
From the subject line I figured they were having a sale or something.
Yes, with fiddles certainly, and probably any instrument, it's a lot more enjoyable and successful to play music gently, with economy, like you're simply speaking, as opposed TO USING ALL CAPS AND YELLING like some of those sessions I'm sure we've all seen where it seems like everyone is sitting around screaming at each other with their instruments.
The fiddlers I've always admired the most seem to be the ones that appear effortless.
# Posted on April 26th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Liz Carroll & John Doyle - economy
The secret to playing the fiddle really fast with one bow stroke per note is to use very short bow strokes - perhaps no more than an inch of movement. As for playing louder if you have a fiddle that's not so loud, and don't wish to change it, then you can use strings with more penetration (Zyex, Visions for example) or play as close as you can to the bridge. Also, some bows produce a bigger tone and have less bowing "hiss" than others, so that's worth looking into.
Too much bow pressure will kill the tone.
# Posted on April 27th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Liz Carroll & John Doyle - economy
When I see people frantically thrashing their bows, I like to go the in the
opposite Slibh Luacra direction and smooth it out. It's amazing how how
you can rock along at high speed with little effort and great rhythm that
way. I don't play that way all the time, but it's fascinating to listen to
Padraig O'Keefe and the Ó Raghallaighs - how a tune can rock and flow
at the same time.
I'm trying to reconcile that style with Andy McGann's - LOL - it can't be
done - I want to emulate both styles at the same time.
# Posted on April 28th 2009 by Hup
Re: Liz Carroll & John Doyle - economy
That famous video of John Sheahan of The Dubliners and the pop-classical violinist Andre Rieu playing The Irish Washerwoman on a TV show - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM6SeArtAco - says it all about bow thrashing and economy of bowing respectively.
# Posted on April 28th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Liz Carroll & John Doyle - economy
oops! that last bit should be "economy of bowing and bow thrashing respectively"!
# Posted on April 28th 2009 by Trevor Jennings