Why - are you goin to play it instead of the National Anthem!! Might get yourself in trouble in certain places.
If you must, try starting on a longish A, then drop to D, up to a longish d, then to B and carry on from there. Like all such dities, it's designed so that every citizen, regardless of singing ability, can join in after 1 verse!! So do it by ear - ha, hope this helps. Sorry for being cynical.
I was once asked in Cork by an old geezer if our band knew the Irish National Anthem. I said (a bit tongue-in-cheek) that I didn't know it but I could play the English one if that was any good. He said "You don't want to do that in here - there'd be a feckin riot!"
Perhaps one should explain for the benefit of the overseas diaspora as Mary R. would have it, that 'Ireland' Call' is the sort of second string National Anthem associated with the mighty Irish rugby football team.
Because the team is drawn from all Ireland and includes Ulster players, they get to sing both at home matches and just the above at away matches. The Ulster lads can then sing whichever or none..
Confused? ... !!! ... another little Irish solution to an Irish problem.
Of course, when the team loses, you get the usual crowd writing & phoning the media saying they'd play much better if they all stood and bellowed out Amhran na bhFiann and had a bit of pride in their blood etc. etc.
I used to play pubs in South London. Irish punters would ask us to play the National Anthem, but we wouldn't. Just because we play Irish music doesn't mean we have to, we were in England, and besides, two of our number were English. The old geezers especially moaned every week. Anyway the lads couldn't play the tune.
Eventually we learned and finished a gig with the National Anthem.... of Botswana!
what is Irelands national anthem then? scotland the brave is scotlands na isn't it?(just double checkin) ...So i youtubed 'scotland the brave' the other day, and apparantly I've been humming it for as long as i can remember...like since i was three or four....and I've only ever lived in Idaho and montana....wierd...
@Steve...r the national anthem of the republic of Ireland (Eire) is Amhrán na bhFiann (The Soldier's Song).
"UK" stands for "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", which comprises England, Scotland, Wales, and of course, Northern Ireland. The UK is (currently) one "nation", so there is only one "official" UK national anthem, which is God Save the Queen.
The tune which is commonly accepted as being the anthem of Scotland (although it is not a "national" anthem) is Flower of Scotand, although "Scotand the Brave" is also a contender.
The tune which universally accepted as being the anthem of Wales is Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau (Land of My Fathers). Interestingly, the Breton anthem uses the same tune.
The only thing "Flower of Scotland" has going for it is that it isn't "God Save the Queen".
The alternative national anthem for years has been Hamish Henderson's "Freedom Come All Ye". Once you get past the impenetratble first verse it is marvelous. (Hamish pointedly wrote in a Scots so thick, that I very much doubt that more than a handful of people ever spoke like that. See the first verse of "FCAY", which 99% of Scottish people have to have explained to them).
lyrics:
Roch the wind in the clear day's dawin
Blaws the cloods heilster-gowdie owre the bay
But there's mair nor a roch wind blawin
Thro the Great Glen o the warld the day
It's a thocht that wad gar oor rottans
Aa thae rogues that gang gallus fresh an gay
Tak the road an seek ither loanins
Wi thair ill-ploys tae sport an play
Nae mair will our bonnie callants
Merch tae war when oor braggarts crousely craw
Nor wee weans frae pitheid an clachan
Mourn the ships sailin doun the Broomielaw
Broken faimlies in lands we've hairriet
Will curse 'Scotlan the Brave' nae mair, nae mair
Black an white ane-til-ither mairriet
Mak the vile barracks o thair maisters bare
Sae come aa ye at hame wi freedom
Never heed whit the houdies croak for Doom
In yer hoos aa the bairns o Adam
Will find breid, barley-bree an paintit rooms
When Maclean meets wi's friens in Springburn
Aa thae roses an geans will turn tae blume
An the black lad frae yont Nyanga
Dings the fell gallows o the burghers doun.
Well I googled rather than typed the lyrics out, and found an "English translation "on wiki-P here it is (quite cludgy, but fun):
It's a rough wind in the clear day's dawning
Blows the clouds head-over-heels across the bay
But there's more than a rough wind blowing
Through the Great Glen of the world today
It's a thought that would make our rodents,
All those rogues who strut and swagger,
Take the road and seek other pastures
To carry out their wicked schemes
No more will our fine young men
March to war at the behest of jingoists and imperialists
Nor will young children from mining communities and rural hamlets
Mourn the ships sailing off down the River Clyde
Broken families in lands we've helped to oppress
Will never again have reason to curse the sound of advancing Scots
Black and white, united in friendship and marriage,
Will make the slums of the employers bare
So come all ye who love freedom
Pay no attention to the prophets of doom
In your house all the children of Adam
Will be welcomed with food, drink and clean bright accommodation
When MacLean returns to his people
All the roses and cherry trees will blossom
And the black guy from Nyanga (Cape Town, South Africa)
Will break the capitalist stranglehold on everyone's life
Fantastic song (in the original, not in the translation). Note the honest evaluation of Scotland's history rather than the pretence that we've always only been victims . And the vision of a new and better future.But I'd accept Burn's "A Man's a Man" on the basis that too few Scots know HAmish' song for it to become a real popular contender.
Sctoland the Brave, by the way, has *never* been a contender for national anthem. Maybe you were thinking of "Scots Wha Hae" , which personally I think is far from Burn's best effort.
But I would agree with you when you say that the only thing that the Flower of Scotland has got going for it is that it's not "God Save the Queen" ....
Sometimes we get Scots punters in at our local sessions (in England). They always ask for for "Flower of Scotland". So it seems that the bl...y thing is quite popular ....
@munya - The Londonderry Air is used when Northern Ireland competes against other nations of the United Kingdom in venues such as the Commonwealth Games. But, as I pointed out, its use at such events as an anthem is only "unofficial"
And yes, I am fully aware that there is no universal agreement regarding whether Northern Ireland's second city should be called Derry or Londonderry.
I referred to the "Londonderry Air" rather than the "Derry Air" as the latter sounds rather like the French word for backside!
Mix:
>And "Flower of Scotand" certainly HAS been promoted as a >possible anthem (along with "Scotland the Brave".)
I think I was unclear: Flower is almost certainly seen as the national anthem by most scots, by default if for no other reason. It is popular and has been used for sporting events for years.
I meant "Freedom Come All Ye" had been seen as an alternative to *Flower of scotland*. I wasn't really comparing it directly to "God Save the Queen" which no-one sees as *Scotland's* national anthem, though many scots do identify with it as a uk/british national anthem (many also do not).
Scotland the brave is just crap. I can't belive anyone would really chose that as an anthem unless they plain disliked Flower and didn't know of any better alternatives (God Save being obviously discounted).
I suspect that support for "Caledonia" as a potential candidate has been gradually increasing over later years.
The problem with Flower is it defines scotland pretty much in terms of not being english, and over-romanticises the past. Tartan goggles fro the looking through.
Brian McNeill wrote a well known rant as a fine antidote to the stupidity of romantic Jacobism & Flower of Scotland.
Munya - the Londonderry Air was used quite a lot as an unofficial anthem in Northern Ireland before the Northern Ireland parliament was dissolved in 1972 ...
But I guess that was probably before your time.
Protestant Unionists have a majority in NI, but it's only a small majority. Singing or playing "God Save the Queen" would be fine by them, but would be likely to cause offence to the sizeable Catholic minority, who in the main want nothing to do with the UK or its anthem.
That's why the Londonderry Air is sometimes used. Politically speaking, is doesn't cause any offence (even if is does musically!).
Well, Rambling Pitch, so seem to be contradicting your earlier statement and now agreeing with me when I said that both the Flower of Scotland and Scotland the Brave have been promoted as contenders to be a Scottish anthem.
Personally, I don't think that either tune has much going for it - perhaps that's why there is no universal agreement about it.
However, the fact remains that until the Scottish Assembly makes some pronouncment about it, there is no "official" anthem anyway
And even if did, it wouldn't be a "national" anthem unless Scotland separates from the UK.
Mix:
>Well, Rambling Pitch, so seem to be contradicting >your earlier statement and now agreeing with me >when I said that both the Flower of Scotland and >Scotland the Brave have been promoted as >contenders to be a Scottish anthem.
my earlier message could have been read to suggest that FCAY was the alternative to God Save. That wasn't what I emant. I meant it was the alternative to Flower. I wasn't particularly clear on this. But I think you would have more likely understood what I meant if you were scottish. I didn't explain myself well (not for the first time).
I've never come across anyone scottish actually suggest or consider "scotland the brave" as a national anthe. Though I think it was put forward by some newpaper as part of some multiple choice poll that was probably as representative as a chanel 4 vopte for the best 100 movies of all time (and here is your short list).
It might be considered a candidate on some website. It isn't a candidate in real life.
No-one no matter how unionist would consider "God Save" as Scotlands national anthem. It is a uk anthem (actually I'd argue it isn't even a national anthem at all. It is a royalist anthem). Of course a hard core unionist might not see any need for a seperate scottish anthem, but they woukld be a small minority even amongst unionists.
Personally, I don't think that either tune has much going for it - perhaps that's why there is no universal agreement about it.
However, the fact remains that until the Scottish Assembly makes some pronouncment about it, there is no "official" anthem anyway
And even if did, it wouldn't be a "national" anthem unless Scotland separates from the UK.
>And even if did, it wouldn't be a "national" anthem >unless Scotland separates from the uk
The uk is a multinational state. Why shouldn't nations within multinational states may well have their own national anthem ?
If you are English, and applying for a passport for example, you have to state your nationality as being British - not English.
I assume the same is true in Scotland, but please correct me if I'm wrong ...
So *if* there is no such thing as "Scottish Nationality", Scotand is not technically a nation so their could not be a Scottish "National" Anthem - unless Scotland goes for independence. Thre could course be a Scottish Anthem, but under the current arrangements it wouldn't actually be a "national" anthem.
As for that ghastly "God Save the Queen" with its dirge-like tune and jingoistic words, I would consign it to the dustbin tomorrow if it were up to me.
At a Burns night that we were playing for a couple of years ago, one of the dances was "The Gay Gordons" and we included "Scotland the Brave" in the tuneset.
At the end of the evening the piper (who had piped in the haggis) approached us and told us that he had "really enjoyed our music apart from "that Bl..dy Scots Porridge Oats tune!"
So maybe you have a point there!
But speaking personally, I'm rather uncomfortable about national anthems generally. They seem to feed on nationalism, and nationalism is often the cause of wars.
I'm on the fence. On one hand, I agree with Chris that Scotland (and Wales, and Northern Ireland) should be able to assert their own identity, even if it is within a sort of federalized UK state. And so what if you have to identify yourself as "British" on a passport -- that doesn't at all negate the fact that you choose to identify yourself with England, Scotland, Wales, or Northern Ireland.
On the other hand, I agree with Mix that nationalism has caused all kinds of problems and there is something scarily jingoistic and militaristic about most national anthems.
Politics aside, I also think The Freedom Come All Ye is really pretty and sounds fantastic on the uilleann pipes.
Did you ever notice that if a person other than a Scotsman appears on telly playing pipes, you just know you are going to hear Amazing Grace and Scotland the Brave???? As a non Scot my favourite Scottish song is 'A Parcel of Rogues' with Luke Kelly singing it.
Silver Spear - for the record, I wasn't suggesting that folks shouldn't be allowed to express their cultural or ethnic idenity - I was merely pointing out that "British Nationality" was a legal term. That's a fact, rather than an opinion. If folks aren't happy with that, the law needs to be changed.
Anthems, anything which is not going to start us all scrapping is fine by me. GSTQ is a curse for us jocks and hated by most (other than by those who stand, as they say in NI) and for good reason.
Freedom Come All Ye is a bonny tune and song but as mentioned by others; difficult to get you're lips round. I prefer booing over GSTQ than the singing the "flower" so I'd say we were still in the market for a replacement.
Talking of National Anthems. I would have preferred this one for Ireland rather than the Soldier Song. We learnt to sing it with great gusto at school, and the tune also makes a great march. The first and last verse I've put on here.
'A Nation Once Again' composed by Tomas Davis 1814/1845.
When boyhood's fire was in my blood
I read of ancient freemen,
For Greece and Rome who bravely stood,
Three hundred men and three men;
And then I prayed I yet might see
Our fetters rent in twain,
And Ireland, long a province, be.
A Nation once again!
A Nation once again,
A Nation once again,
And lreland, long a province, be
A Nation once again!
So as I grew from boy to man,
I bent me to that bidding
My spirit of each selfish plan
And cruel passion ridding;
For, thus I hoped some day to aid,
Oh, can such hope be vain ?
When my dear country shall be made
A Nation once again!
During the hungry forties we also had our own version of the song, and we could be singing that version again in the very near future!.
Starvation once again, Starvation once again
No tea, no sugar, no bread, no butter
Starvation once again
Is this a good thing or a bad thing? I don't know. But some of these words have "socio-political" connotations.
Here's an example. We might say that we are eating mutton, but we wouldn't say that we were eating sheep. Mutton drives from the French : "mouton". Only the Norman conquerors could actually afford to eat meat, so that's why we have two words. The word for the animal (used by those tending it), and the word for the meat that comes from that animal (used by those eating it).
Similarly, the names of the senior officers in the navy are derivied from the French (e.g. captain, admiral), whereas the junior ones (e.g. coxwain, boatswain) are not.
I mentioned it because thats how far the English have to go back to blame the state of things on someone else (well, except Thatcher I suppose). Some years ago it was discussed on the radio and when listeners phoned in there was a strong north-south divide on opinions. Us up north would rather have kept the Anglo-Saxon management, the southerners, particularly the 'home counties' lot were for the Norman influence being good (which is what the history books say - all written by southerners I suppose).
Just my attempt and empathy with the non-english folk of these islands.
Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the Queen!
As Billy Commolly once said "...ye f**kin think so? Culludeon, we want a replay!"
Since this is still going, this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8016440.stm
was the sort of attitude that has me as a northern englishman understanding how the scots (in this instance), welsh and irish feel about some things. The guy could equally well have been talking about people from 'the provinces'.
ireland's call
ireland's call
Just wondering does anyone have the abc for Ireland's call?
thanks
# Posted on April 23rd 2009 by irishtradguy
Re: ireland's call
Why - are you goin to play it instead of the National Anthem!! Might get yourself in trouble in certain places.
If you must, try starting on a longish A, then drop to D, up to a longish d, then to B and carry on from there. Like all such dities, it's designed so that every citizen, regardless of singing ability, can join in after 1 verse!! So do it by ear - ha, hope this helps. Sorry for being cynical.
# Posted on April 23rd 2009 by the wounded hussar
Re: ireland's call
I was once asked in Cork by an old geezer if our band knew the Irish National Anthem. I said (a bit tongue-in-cheek) that I didn't know it but I could play the English one if that was any good. He said "You don't want to do that in here - there'd be a feckin riot!"
# Posted on April 23rd 2009 by Mark Harmer
Re: ireland's call
Perhaps one should explain for the benefit of the overseas diaspora as Mary R. would have it, that 'Ireland' Call' is the sort of second string National Anthem associated with the mighty Irish rugby football team.
Because the team is drawn from all Ireland and includes Ulster players, they get to sing both at home matches and just the above at away matches. The Ulster lads can then sing whichever or none..
Confused? ... !!! ... another little Irish solution to an Irish problem.
Of course, when the team loses, you get the usual crowd writing & phoning the media saying they'd play much better if they all stood and bellowed out Amhran na bhFiann and had a bit of pride in their blood etc. etc.
# Posted on April 23rd 2009 by the wounded hussar
Re: ireland's call
I used to play pubs in South London. Irish punters would ask us to play the National Anthem, but we wouldn't. Just because we play Irish music doesn't mean we have to, we were in England, and besides, two of our number were English. The old geezers especially moaned every week. Anyway the lads couldn't play the tune.
Eventually we learned and finished a gig with the National Anthem.... of Botswana!
# Posted on April 23rd 2009 by RockyRoader
Re: ireland's call
what is Irelands national anthem then? scotland the brave is scotlands na isn't it?(just double checkin) ...So i youtubed 'scotland the brave' the other day, and apparantly I've been humming it for as long as i can remember...like since i was three or four....and I've only ever lived in Idaho and montana....wierd...
# Posted on April 24th 2009 by steve...r
Re: ireland's call
@Steve...r the national anthem of the republic of Ireland (Eire) is Amhrán na bhFiann (The Soldier's Song).
"UK" stands for "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", which comprises England, Scotland, Wales, and of course, Northern Ireland. The UK is (currently) one "nation", so there is only one "official" UK national anthem, which is God Save the Queen.
The tune which is commonly accepted as being the anthem of Scotland (although it is not a "national" anthem) is Flower of Scotand, although "Scotand the Brave" is also a contender.
The tune which universally accepted as being the anthem of Wales is Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau (Land of My Fathers). Interestingly, the Breton anthem uses the same tune.
# Posted on April 24th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: ireland's call
Forgot to mention. In Northern Ireland, the "official" anthem is "God Save the Queen".
However, since using this anthem is likely to cause problems at cross-community events, the unofficial (and neutral) anthem is often used instead:
i.e. the Londonderry Air (the tune of "Danny Boy").
# Posted on April 24th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: ireland's call
The only thing "Flower of Scotland" has going for it is that it isn't "God Save the Queen".
The alternative national anthem for years has been Hamish Henderson's "Freedom Come All Ye". Once you get past the impenetratble first verse it is marvelous. (Hamish pointedly wrote in a Scots so thick, that I very much doubt that more than a handful of people ever spoke like that. See the first verse of "FCAY", which 99% of Scottish people have to have explained to them).
lyrics:
Roch the wind in the clear day's dawin
Blaws the cloods heilster-gowdie owre the bay
But there's mair nor a roch wind blawin
Thro the Great Glen o the warld the day
It's a thocht that wad gar oor rottans
Aa thae rogues that gang gallus fresh an gay
Tak the road an seek ither loanins
Wi thair ill-ploys tae sport an play
Nae mair will our bonnie callants
Merch tae war when oor braggarts crousely craw
Nor wee weans frae pitheid an clachan
Mourn the ships sailin doun the Broomielaw
Broken faimlies in lands we've hairriet
Will curse 'Scotlan the Brave' nae mair, nae mair
Black an white ane-til-ither mairriet
Mak the vile barracks o thair maisters bare
Sae come aa ye at hame wi freedom
Never heed whit the houdies croak for Doom
In yer hoos aa the bairns o Adam
Will find breid, barley-bree an paintit rooms
When Maclean meets wi's friens in Springburn
Aa thae roses an geans will turn tae blume
An the black lad frae yont Nyanga
Dings the fell gallows o the burghers doun.
Well I googled rather than typed the lyrics out, and found an "English translation "on wiki-P here it is (quite cludgy, but fun):
It's a rough wind in the clear day's dawning
Blows the clouds head-over-heels across the bay
But there's more than a rough wind blowing
Through the Great Glen of the world today
It's a thought that would make our rodents,
All those rogues who strut and swagger,
Take the road and seek other pastures
To carry out their wicked schemes
No more will our fine young men
March to war at the behest of jingoists and imperialists
Nor will young children from mining communities and rural hamlets
Mourn the ships sailing off down the River Clyde
Broken families in lands we've helped to oppress
Will never again have reason to curse the sound of advancing Scots
Black and white, united in friendship and marriage,
Will make the slums of the employers bare
So come all ye who love freedom
Pay no attention to the prophets of doom
In your house all the children of Adam
Will be welcomed with food, drink and clean bright accommodation
When MacLean returns to his people
All the roses and cherry trees will blossom
And the black guy from Nyanga (Cape Town, South Africa)
Will break the capitalist stranglehold on everyone's life
Fantastic song (in the original, not in the translation). Note the honest evaluation of Scotland's history rather than the pretence that we've always only been victims . And the vision of a new and better future.But I'd accept Burn's "A Man's a Man" on the basis that too few Scots know HAmish' song for it to become a real popular contender.
- chris
# Posted on April 24th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: ireland's call
Sctoland the Brave, by the way, has *never* been a contender for national anthem. Maybe you were thinking of "Scots Wha Hae" , which personally I think is far from Burn's best effort.
- chris
# Posted on April 24th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: ireland's call
Rambling Pitch - no, I wasn't thinking of Scots Wha Hae, although I'm familiar with with that tune and its words.
And "Flower of Scotand" certainly HAS been promoted as a possible anthem (along with "Scotland the Brave".)
Check out this website for instance
http://www.scottishanthem.co.uk/
But I would agree with you when you say that the only thing that the Flower of Scotland has got going for it is that it's not "God Save the Queen" ....
Sometimes we get Scots punters in at our local sessions (in England). They always ask for for "Flower of Scotland". So it seems that the bl...y thing is quite popular ....
# Posted on April 24th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: ireland's call
Mix - since when has the 'London'Derry Air been used as NI's anthem? Rubbish
# Posted on April 24th 2009 by munya beor
Re: ireland's call
@munya - The Londonderry Air is used when Northern Ireland competes against other nations of the United Kingdom in venues such as the Commonwealth Games. But, as I pointed out, its use at such events as an anthem is only "unofficial"
And yes, I am fully aware that there is no universal agreement regarding whether Northern Ireland's second city should be called Derry or Londonderry.
I referred to the "Londonderry Air" rather than the "Derry Air" as the latter sounds rather like the French word for backside!
BTW - I don't (generally) talk "rubbish" here.
# Posted on April 24th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: ireland's call
that's me put in my place then...
# Posted on April 24th 2009 by munya beor
Re: ireland's call
No hard feelings I hope, munya ...
# Posted on April 24th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: ireland's call
oh no, definately not....I still don't believe you on the Londonderry Air one though! lol
# Posted on April 24th 2009 by munya beor
Re: ireland's call
Mix.... Wasn't Dannyboy a bum living in London? ;)
# Posted on April 24th 2009 by RockyRoader
Re: ireland's call
Mix:
>And "Flower of Scotand" certainly HAS been promoted as a >possible anthem (along with "Scotland the Brave".)
I think I was unclear: Flower is almost certainly seen as the national anthem by most scots, by default if for no other reason. It is popular and has been used for sporting events for years.
I meant "Freedom Come All Ye" had been seen as an alternative to *Flower of scotland*. I wasn't really comparing it directly to "God Save the Queen" which no-one sees as *Scotland's* national anthem, though many scots do identify with it as a uk/british national anthem (many also do not).
Scotland the brave is just crap. I can't belive anyone would really chose that as an anthem unless they plain disliked Flower and didn't know of any better alternatives (God Save being obviously discounted).
- chris
# Posted on April 24th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: ireland's call
I suspect that support for "Caledonia" as a potential candidate has been gradually increasing over later years.
The problem with Flower is it defines scotland pretty much in terms of not being english, and over-romanticises the past. Tartan goggles fro the looking through.
Brian McNeill wrote a well known rant as a fine antidote to the stupidity of romantic Jacobism & Flower of Scotland.
- chris
# Posted on April 24th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: ireland's call
Munya - the Londonderry Air was used quite a lot as an unofficial anthem in Northern Ireland before the Northern Ireland parliament was dissolved in 1972 ...
But I guess that was probably before your time.
Protestant Unionists have a majority in NI, but it's only a small majority. Singing or playing "God Save the Queen" would be fine by them, but would be likely to cause offence to the sizeable Catholic minority, who in the main want nothing to do with the UK or its anthem.
That's why the Londonderry Air is sometimes used. Politically speaking, is doesn't cause any offence (even if is does musically!).
I wasn't joking!
# Posted on April 24th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: ireland's call
Well, Rambling Pitch, so seem to be contradicting your earlier statement and now agreeing with me when I said that both the Flower of Scotland and Scotland the Brave have been promoted as contenders to be a Scottish anthem.
Personally, I don't think that either tune has much going for it - perhaps that's why there is no universal agreement about it.
However, the fact remains that until the Scottish Assembly makes some pronouncment about it, there is no "official" anthem anyway
And even if did, it wouldn't be a "national" anthem unless Scotland separates from the UK.
# Posted on April 24th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: ireland's call
Munya - if you still don't believe me, check out these links:
http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern_ireland_news.asp?id=14864
http://www.qub.ac.uk/home/Alumni/Events/PastEvents2005-2006/2006Events/CommonwealthGamesReception/
# Posted on April 24th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: ireland's call
there we go...ya learn something new every day!
# Posted on April 24th 2009 by munya beor
Re: ireland's call
Mix:
>Well, Rambling Pitch, so seem to be contradicting >your earlier statement and now agreeing with me >when I said that both the Flower of Scotland and >Scotland the Brave have been promoted as >contenders to be a Scottish anthem.
my earlier message could have been read to suggest that FCAY was the alternative to God Save. That wasn't what I emant. I meant it was the alternative to Flower. I wasn't particularly clear on this. But I think you would have more likely understood what I meant if you were scottish. I didn't explain myself well (not for the first time).
I've never come across anyone scottish actually suggest or consider "scotland the brave" as a national anthe. Though I think it was put forward by some newpaper as part of some multiple choice poll that was probably as representative as a chanel 4 vopte for the best 100 movies of all time (and here is your short list).
It might be considered a candidate on some website. It isn't a candidate in real life.
No-one no matter how unionist would consider "God Save" as Scotlands national anthem. It is a uk anthem (actually I'd argue it isn't even a national anthem at all. It is a royalist anthem). Of course a hard core unionist might not see any need for a seperate scottish anthem, but they woukld be a small minority even amongst unionists.
Personally, I don't think that either tune has much going for it - perhaps that's why there is no universal agreement about it.
However, the fact remains that until the Scottish Assembly makes some pronouncment about it, there is no "official" anthem anyway
And even if did, it wouldn't be a "national" anthem unless Scotland separates from the UK.
>And even if did, it wouldn't be a "national" anthem >unless Scotland separates from the uk
The uk is a multinational state. Why shouldn't nations within multinational states may well have their own national anthem ?
- chris
# Posted on April 24th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: ireland's call
If you are English, and applying for a passport for example, you have to state your nationality as being British - not English.
I assume the same is true in Scotland, but please correct me if I'm wrong ...
So *if* there is no such thing as "Scottish Nationality", Scotand is not technically a nation so their could not be a Scottish "National" Anthem - unless Scotland goes for independence. Thre could course be a Scottish Anthem, but under the current arrangements it wouldn't actually be a "national" anthem.
As for that ghastly "God Save the Queen" with its dirge-like tune and jingoistic words, I would consign it to the dustbin tomorrow if it were up to me.
At a Burns night that we were playing for a couple of years ago, one of the dances was "The Gay Gordons" and we included "Scotland the Brave" in the tuneset.
At the end of the evening the piper (who had piped in the haggis) approached us and told us that he had "really enjoyed our music apart from "that Bl..dy Scots Porridge Oats tune!"
So maybe you have a point there!
But speaking personally, I'm rather uncomfortable about national anthems generally. They seem to feed on nationalism, and nationalism is often the cause of wars.
# Posted on April 24th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: ireland's call
I'm on the fence. On one hand, I agree with Chris that Scotland (and Wales, and Northern Ireland) should be able to assert their own identity, even if it is within a sort of federalized UK state. And so what if you have to identify yourself as "British" on a passport -- that doesn't at all negate the fact that you choose to identify yourself with England, Scotland, Wales, or Northern Ireland.
On the other hand, I agree with Mix that nationalism has caused all kinds of problems and there is something scarily jingoistic and militaristic about most national anthems.
Politics aside, I also think The Freedom Come All Ye is really pretty and sounds fantastic on the uilleann pipes.
# Posted on April 25th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: ireland's call
Did you ever notice that if a person other than a Scotsman appears on telly playing pipes, you just know you are going to hear Amazing Grace and Scotland the Brave???? As a non Scot my favourite Scottish song is 'A Parcel of Rogues' with Luke Kelly singing it.
# Posted on April 25th 2009 by Free Reed
Re: ireland's call
Silver Spear - for the record, I wasn't suggesting that folks shouldn't be allowed to express their cultural or ethnic idenity - I was merely pointing out that "British Nationality" was a legal term. That's a fact, rather than an opinion. If folks aren't happy with that, the law needs to be changed.
# Posted on April 25th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: ireland's call
Free Reed -if it were within my power to ban tunes, these three dirges would be at the top of my list:
1) God Save the Queen
2) Happy Birthday to You
3) Amazing Grace (and its not even Scottish)
# Posted on April 25th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: ireland's call
Anthems, anything which is not going to start us all scrapping is fine by me. GSTQ is a curse for us jocks and hated by most (other than by those who stand, as they say in NI) and for good reason.
Freedom Come All Ye is a bonny tune and song but as mentioned by others; difficult to get you're lips round. I prefer booing over GSTQ than the singing the "flower" so I'd say we were still in the market for a replacement.
Irelands call, well it's not for me to say.
# Posted on April 25th 2009 by Solidmahog
Re: ireland's call
Whether something sounds good pon the UPs or not should not be the main selection criteria for picking the Scottish National Anthem!
# Posted on April 25th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: ireland's call
Ralph McTell's "England" would be a great choice for an English National anthem btw.
# Posted on April 25th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: ireland's call
"Hard Times for Old England" might be more appropriate at the moment!
(Recorded by the Copper Family of Sussex, and maybe others).
# Posted on April 25th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: ireland's call
Just looking at my UK driving licence and they seem to think it relevant that I was born in England.
So, so far as cultural identity is concerned, was the Norman conquest a 'good thing' or a 'bad thing' ?
# Posted on April 25th 2009 by David50
Re: ireland's call
Talking of National Anthems. I would have preferred this one for Ireland rather than the Soldier Song. We learnt to sing it with great gusto at school, and the tune also makes a great march. The first and last verse I've put on here.
'A Nation Once Again' composed by Tomas Davis 1814/1845.
When boyhood's fire was in my blood
I read of ancient freemen,
For Greece and Rome who bravely stood,
Three hundred men and three men;
And then I prayed I yet might see
Our fetters rent in twain,
And Ireland, long a province, be.
A Nation once again!
A Nation once again,
A Nation once again,
And lreland, long a province, be
A Nation once again!
So as I grew from boy to man,
I bent me to that bidding
My spirit of each selfish plan
And cruel passion ridding;
For, thus I hoped some day to aid,
Oh, can such hope be vain ?
When my dear country shall be made
A Nation once again!
During the hungry forties we also had our own version of the song, and we could be singing that version again in the very near future!.
Starvation once again, Starvation once again
No tea, no sugar, no bread, no butter
Starvation once again
# Posted on April 25th 2009 by Free Reed
Re: ireland's call
That's an interesting one, david_h.
Well, it gave us lots of additional words.
Is this a good thing or a bad thing? I don't know. But some of these words have "socio-political" connotations.
Here's an example. We might say that we are eating mutton, but we wouldn't say that we were eating sheep. Mutton drives from the French : "mouton". Only the Norman conquerors could actually afford to eat meat, so that's why we have two words. The word for the animal (used by those tending it), and the word for the meat that comes from that animal (used by those eating it).
Some more examples:
Beef (from boeuf=ox)
Veale (from veau=calf)
Pork (from porc=pig)
Poultry (from poule=hen)
Similarly, the names of the senior officers in the navy are derivied from the French (e.g. captain, admiral), whereas the junior ones (e.g. coxwain, boatswain) are not.
# Posted on April 25th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: ireland's call
I mentioned it because thats how far the English have to go back to blame the state of things on someone else (well, except Thatcher I suppose). Some years ago it was discussed on the radio and when listeners phoned in there was a strong north-south divide on opinions. Us up north would rather have kept the Anglo-Saxon management, the southerners, particularly the 'home counties' lot were for the Norman influence being good (which is what the history books say - all written by southerners I suppose).
Just my attempt and empathy with the non-english folk of these islands.
All nonsense of course.
# Posted on April 25th 2009 by David50
Re: ireland's call
nocause:
>Whether something sounds good pon the UPs or not should >not be the main selection criteria for picking the Scottish >National Anthem!
No, but it is relevant to point out that the melody of "Flower fo Scotland" cannot be played roperly on the highland pipes.
# Posted on April 25th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: ireland's call
What I want to know is, who was Connie, and why was he shoved around the Green ?
"Shovin' Connie Around the Green"
# Posted on April 26th 2009 by Sean Lead Liath
Re: ireland's call
Doesn't God Save the Queen have the lines:
Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the Queen!
As Billy Commolly once said "...ye f**kin think so? Culludeon, we want a replay!"
# Posted on April 27th 2009 by iwerzon
Re: ireland's call
Since this is still going, this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8016440.stm
was the sort of attitude that has me as a northern englishman understanding how the scots (in this instance), welsh and irish feel about some things. The guy could equally well have been talking about people from 'the provinces'.
# Posted on April 27th 2009 by David50