Google "itm" and you will get 7, 670,000 hits...few of them (if any) seem to pertain to "irish traditional music"...does the tradition needs a better descriptor of some kind?
Here are a few (I thought) amusing ones, please add your favourites if you feel so inclined:
-Welcome to the Indiana Transportation Museum! Home of the Nickel Plate Steam Locomotive No. 587. ...
-The Institute of Travel and Meetings is the leading professional body for buyers, managers and suppliers of business travel in the UK and Ireland.
ITM's 1,000 members come from large corporates...
-The Institute for Traditional Medicine is a non-profit organization in Portland, OR. ITM is dedicated to furthuring the knowledge, research and education of ...
-ITM Power is a leading technical innovator of fuel cell technologies for the hydrogen economy
- ITM - International Training Massage School in Chiang Mai, Thailand, 6 levels Basic to advanced courses of traditional Thai massage, ...[when you really want to feel the music]
I was amused at this post the other day by Donough, a long standing and otherwise thoughtful contributor. He was replying to a kid who's language was, to say the least, abbreviated:
"Dan, I think most people here would prefer the English language and not some form of text message stuff. I know that many other moderated sites actually forbid use of "nyt b4 " and suchlike.
But thanks for filling in the gaps about the video and not letting the comments get under your skin. I don't care if you are having fun with the music - just not keen on Djembe with ITM."
That was pretty funny, llig, but the difference is that "ITM" is an acronym, and what our young djembe-playing friend was doing was murdering the English language with phone-text abbreviations... And then he apologized, saying it was habbit (sic).
The fact that the youngsters are learning new ways to communicate more "efficiently" (only as far as number of letters, as far as I can tell) is related to spoons and bodhrans thread that is raging right now. There is a long history behind the English language, and it includes the widely accepted "proper way to do things" (via the use of grammar and spelling). Some people don't care about the "proper way to do things", and thnk tht ther wy to do thngs iz btr.
Likewise with the tradition of Irish Music. Another quote from a post in the spoons thread is "Anyone who plays anything well should be welcome at any musical gathering", which sounds to me like some socialistic utopia, where we all get in touch with our souls through music... However, to me, that's not the "proper way to do things", and that free-for-all music would have as much in common with Irish traditional music as the abbreviated-text gibberish has to do with the English language.
Sorry Rev, but ITM is not an acronym, it's an abreviation. An acronym makes a new word out of the first lketters of something, Like Cosla, or Yuppie etc.
There is nothing wrong with a musical gathering open to anyone who can sort of play an instrument. However, I would be reluctant to call such a thing an "Irish session," since for me an Irish session is not that. A lot of the participants in that enjoy it and it gives people who might not play or understand Irish music the chance to play music in a community, which is a good thing. I myself try to avoid such gatherings as I prefer a good hard driving Irish (or Scottish) session but I can see the point of them.
There is, however, a lot wrong with using text language. It's lazy and butchers the English language. I don't think anyone gets any benefit out of it, not even the writer of the abbreviated text message since they are contributing to the creation of a community that has callous disregard for the subtlety and nuances of language.
Actually, more precisely, you're correct, llig, ITM is not an acronym, it's an initialism, since people don't pronounce it as a word (at least, I don't think they do... But tht mite b anthr ITM up 4 dbate)
"TIM" is a bit, er...!!??? tim-ish...
"Language! Timothy!"
"Tim Nice-But-Dim"
Tim's just not a butch enough name!
Hollywood would never call a baddie Tim.
Sorry to all the Timothys watching...
Only just happened to recheck this thread to find Llig's response to my comment.
I would not ever try and cross swords with you Llig (I never really know how to address you - would try to rearrange the letters and address you by first name but I gather from prior posts you did not like that). I made it clear in my subsequnet post on that thread what I meant by ITM.
"Otherwise thoughtful" is a nice compliment but suggests I took leave of my senses.
If you are one of those who clearly doesn't like the abreviation I hasten to add I never used it before coming onto this site. I use it because for better or for worse it has become an accepted abreviation here after many discussions and generally it is well understood though not universally liked.
"Text message speak" is quite a different matter to use of common abbreviations and the former is the thing to which I was making reference.
I do have a sense of humour and frequently do have to laugh at myself but I see no reason here whatsoever. But if I brightened your day by giving you a laugh then I suppose I should be happy with that.
It's just that text message speak is abbreviation, all be it taken to the extreme. It's not quite a different matter to the use of ITM at all.
People communicate in the forms that other people are communicating to them. That's how language develops. You have gotten used to the abbreviation ITM because you've been around this website for years. Kids who abbreviate "text" to "txt" do so for the same reason. No offence, but the irony in berating someone for saying "txt" when you use "ITM" was funny.
But remember, this is one of those threads that "falls into the useless 50% of postings discussed last week."
''ah it's great crack . . . sure there's nothing to beat the crack . . . especially on the periphery of the crack''
Paul Gallagher (wooden flute and a great head for the crack) 1999
quote courtesy of lisaniska's bio [gret kwote btw]
Llig I am not offended at all. But I was drawing a distinction between text-speak and accepted abbreviations. Text speak does not just abbreviate but substitutes numbers and letters for words. It is still a form of shortening but not what is usually meant by an abbreviation. Many other forums make this distinction and have very strict rules regarding that matter.
You look at a letter written by a 17th or 18th century letter writer, and you'll see far more abbreviation.
There's barely a word that isn't compressed because paper was expensive and ink was expensive, and to get your letter franked cost a lot of money - a Member of Parliament or member of the aristocracy were the only people who could do it.
And so letters were, as they say, crossed. You'd look at them writing horizontally and then there'd be vertical lines all the way down and round the margins. And 'your' is 'YR', you know just as it is in a text. It's exactly the same point - you're compressing. And the same quality.
Read Byron's letters. Never was a mind more perfectly expressed and yet in this fantastically compressed form.
Dee...if memory serves me...weren't Ezra Pound's letters often great examples of the condensed phrase?...I'm know he often used [amusing] american colloquialisms and seem to remember that shortened all sorts of stuff in his letters! it was definitely part of his "style", but it also gave his notes this interesting punch...
thanks for note about Byron. didn't know that. huh. "a man bad, mad and dangerous to know"....always loved that descriptor of him by some girlfriend or other
I feel that this issue comes down to a simple matter of courtesy. If I write messages to myself I may use abbreviations that I would not expect others to labour over. Any form of shortening in a scientific journal follows the accepted path of expanding the first time it is used and then you are supposed to remember what it means from there on.
On a site like this if a particular abbreviation is used often enough and is widely enough understood and accepted then there is no need to expand/explain. If ITM is not acceptable to a significant part of the mustard board then we should all stop using it.
17th century letters are hardly a precedent for current norms of behaviour
I promise I am going to give up on this now as I am off to the National Folk Festival in Canberra tomorrow.
ITM really stands for...
ITM really stands for...
(Indiana Transportation Museum)?
Google "itm" and you will get 7, 670,000 hits...few of them (if any) seem to pertain to "irish traditional music"...does the tradition needs a better descriptor of some kind?
Here are a few (I thought) amusing ones, please add your favourites if you feel so inclined:
-Welcome to the Indiana Transportation Museum! Home of the Nickel Plate Steam Locomotive No. 587. ...
-The Institute of Travel and Meetings is the leading professional body for buyers, managers and suppliers of business travel in the UK and Ireland.
ITM's 1,000 members come from large corporates...
-The Institute for Traditional Medicine is a non-profit organization in Portland, OR. ITM is dedicated to furthuring the knowledge, research and education of ...
-ITM Power is a leading technical innovator of fuel cell technologies for the hydrogen economy
- ITM - International Training Massage School in Chiang Mai, Thailand, 6 levels Basic to advanced courses of traditional Thai massage, ...[when you really want to feel the music]
# Posted on April 6th 2009 by skin&bow
Re: ITM really stands for...
"Diddley Diddley Bonk "is the best descriptor.
# Posted on April 6th 2009 by Krick Stahlschwanz
Re: ITM really stands for...
I was amused at this post the other day by Donough, a long standing and otherwise thoughtful contributor. He was replying to a kid who's language was, to say the least, abbreviated:
"Dan, I think most people here would prefer the English language and not some form of text message stuff. I know that many other moderated sites actually forbid use of "nyt b4 " and suchlike.
But thanks for filling in the gaps about the video and not letting the comments get under your skin. I don't care if you are having fun with the music - just not keen on Djembe with ITM."
# Posted on April 6th 2009 by ...
Re: ITM really stands for...
This falls into the useless 50% of postings discussed last week.
# Posted on April 6th 2009 by zippydw
Re: ITM really stands for...
That was pretty funny, llig, but the difference is that "ITM" is an acronym, and what our young djembe-playing friend was doing was murdering the English language with phone-text abbreviations... And then he apologized, saying it was habbit (sic).
The fact that the youngsters are learning new ways to communicate more "efficiently" (only as far as number of letters, as far as I can tell) is related to spoons and bodhrans thread that is raging right now. There is a long history behind the English language, and it includes the widely accepted "proper way to do things" (via the use of grammar and spelling). Some people don't care about the "proper way to do things", and thnk tht ther wy to do thngs iz btr.
Likewise with the tradition of Irish Music. Another quote from a post in the spoons thread is "Anyone who plays anything well should be welcome at any musical gathering", which sounds to me like some socialistic utopia, where we all get in touch with our souls through music... However, to me, that's not the "proper way to do things", and that free-for-all music would have as much in common with Irish traditional music as the abbreviated-text gibberish has to do with the English language.
Oops, sorry for the thread hijack.
# Posted on April 6th 2009 by Reverend
Kilfenora Ceili Band RTE Tuesday 22.30
"In the Blood" Documentary on the kilfenora ceili band on RTE 1 . Tuesday at 22:30. to celebrate 100 years of music.
# Posted on April 6th 2009 by murcu
Re: ITM really stands for...
Rev, hijack away!....know wuries. ;)
Sometimes it's good to have frivolous fun, although some people don't seem to think so.
# Posted on April 6th 2009 by skin&bow
Re: ITM really stands for...
I thought that it USUALLY stood for Idiotic Talentless Mess (Masquerading as Music)
# Posted on April 6th 2009 by Chrishty
Re: ITM really stands for...
Doesn't say much for Google, does it?!
# Posted on April 6th 2009 by the wounded hussar
Re: ITM really stands for...
And there they are with their HQ in the mighty metropolis of Dublin City.
# Posted on April 6th 2009 by the wounded hussar
Re: ITM really stands for...
Sorry Rev, but ITM is not an acronym, it's an abreviation. An acronym makes a new word out of the first lketters of something, Like Cosla, or Yuppie etc.
If you want an acronym, why not TIM?
# Posted on April 6th 2009 by ...
Re: ITM really stands for...
Nice post, Pete.
There is nothing wrong with a musical gathering open to anyone who can sort of play an instrument. However, I would be reluctant to call such a thing an "Irish session," since for me an Irish session is not that. A lot of the participants in that enjoy it and it gives people who might not play or understand Irish music the chance to play music in a community, which is a good thing. I myself try to avoid such gatherings as I prefer a good hard driving Irish (or Scottish) session but I can see the point of them.
There is, however, a lot wrong with using text language. It's lazy and butchers the English language. I don't think anyone gets any benefit out of it, not even the writer of the abbreviated text message since they are contributing to the creation of a community that has callous disregard for the subtlety and nuances of language.
# Posted on April 6th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: ITM really stands for...
And so...
"In the Blood" Documentary on the kilfenora ceili band on RTE 1 . Tuesday at 22:30. to celebrate 100 years of TIM.
# Posted on April 6th 2009 by skin&bow
Re: ITM really stands for...
tee he
# Posted on April 6th 2009 by ...
Re: ITM really stands for...
Actually, more precisely, you're correct, llig, ITM is not an acronym, it's an initialism, since people don't pronounce it as a word (at least, I don't think they do... But tht mite b anthr ITM up 4 dbate)
# Posted on April 6th 2009 by Reverend
Re: ITM really stands for...
It-em? Trying to figure out how to pronounce that. "Hey, youse guize want to go play sum it-em?"
# Posted on April 6th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: ITM really stands for...
Is This Me?
# Posted on April 6th 2009 by fynnjamin
Re: ITM really stands for...
It-em? Trying to figure out how to pronounce that. "Hey, youse guize want to go play sum it-em?"
yeah, dude, bring it on!
# Posted on April 6th 2009 by skin&bow
Re: ITM really stands for...
Eye tea yam.
"TIM" is a bit, er...!!??? tim-ish...
"Language! Timothy!"
"Tim Nice-But-Dim"
Tim's just not a butch enough name!
Hollywood would never call a baddie Tim.
Sorry to all the Timothys watching...
# Posted on April 6th 2009 by Krick Stahlschwanz
Re: ITM really stands for...
I Try Mybest.
# Posted on April 6th 2009 by kuec
Re: ITM really stands for...
I Tickle Megafauna
# Posted on April 6th 2009 by nicholas
Re: ITM really stands for...
I Toke Marijuana
# Posted on April 6th 2009 by Bredna
Re: ITM really stands for...
Dinosaur before yer
# Posted on April 7th 2009 by lisaniska
Re: ITM really stands for...
Only just happened to recheck this thread to find Llig's response to my comment.
I would not ever try and cross swords with you Llig (I never really know how to address you - would try to rearrange the letters and address you by first name but I gather from prior posts you did not like that). I made it clear in my subsequnet post on that thread what I meant by ITM.
"Otherwise thoughtful" is a nice compliment but suggests I took leave of my senses.
If you are one of those who clearly doesn't like the abreviation I hasten to add I never used it before coming onto this site. I use it because for better or for worse it has become an accepted abreviation here after many discussions and generally it is well understood though not universally liked.
"Text message speak" is quite a different matter to use of common abbreviations and the former is the thing to which I was making reference.
I do have a sense of humour and frequently do have to laugh at myself but I see no reason here whatsoever. But if I brightened your day by giving you a laugh then I suppose I should be happy with that.
# Posted on April 7th 2009 by Donough
Re: ITM really stands for...
I'm sorry Donough. I didn't mean to offend.
It's just that text message speak is abbreviation, all be it taken to the extreme. It's not quite a different matter to the use of ITM at all.
People communicate in the forms that other people are communicating to them. That's how language develops. You have gotten used to the abbreviation ITM because you've been around this website for years. Kids who abbreviate "text" to "txt" do so for the same reason. No offence, but the irony in berating someone for saying "txt" when you use "ITM" was funny.
But remember, this is one of those threads that "falls into the useless 50% of postings discussed last week."
# Posted on April 7th 2009 by ...
Re: ITM really stands for...
''ah it's great crack . . . sure there's nothing to beat the crack . . . especially on the periphery of the crack''
Paul Gallagher (wooden flute and a great head for the crack) 1999
quote courtesy of lisaniska's bio [gret kwote btw]
# Posted on April 7th 2009 by skin&bow
Re: ITM really stands for...
Text message English is a kind of shorthand. But shorthand was always intended to be translated back into normal English for public consumption.
# Posted on April 7th 2009 by nicholas
Re: ITM really stands for...
For ITM Google Ceili Music and away ya go!
# Posted on April 7th 2009 by Free Reed
Re: ITM really stands for...
Llig I am not offended at all. But I was drawing a distinction between text-speak and accepted abbreviations. Text speak does not just abbreviate but substitutes numbers and letters for words. It is still a form of shortening but not what is usually meant by an abbreviation. Many other forums make this distinction and have very strict rules regarding that matter.
# Posted on April 8th 2009 by Donough
Re: ITM really stands for...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7926509.stm
Stephen Fry - IN PRAISE OF TXTING ABBRVTNS
You look at a letter written by a 17th or 18th century letter writer, and you'll see far more abbreviation.
There's barely a word that isn't compressed because paper was expensive and ink was expensive, and to get your letter franked cost a lot of money - a Member of Parliament or member of the aristocracy were the only people who could do it.
And so letters were, as they say, crossed. You'd look at them writing horizontally and then there'd be vertical lines all the way down and round the margins. And 'your' is 'YR', you know just as it is in a text. It's exactly the same point - you're compressing. And the same quality.
Read Byron's letters. Never was a mind more perfectly expressed and yet in this fantastically compressed form.
# Posted on April 8th 2009 by dee.
Re: ITM really stands for...
Not having a go by the way!
# Posted on April 8th 2009 by dee.
Re: ITM really stands for...
I enjoyed that Dee, thanks. He bright that bloke.
# Posted on April 8th 2009 by ...
Re: ITM really stands for...
Dee...if memory serves me...weren't Ezra Pound's letters often great examples of the condensed phrase?...I'm know he often used [amusing] american colloquialisms and seem to remember that shortened all sorts of stuff in his letters! it was definitely part of his "style", but it also gave his notes this interesting punch...
thanks for note about Byron. didn't know that. huh. "a man bad, mad and dangerous to know"....always loved that descriptor of him by some girlfriend or other
# Posted on April 8th 2009 by skin&bow
Re: ITM really stands for...
I feel that this issue comes down to a simple matter of courtesy. If I write messages to myself I may use abbreviations that I would not expect others to labour over. Any form of shortening in a scientific journal follows the accepted path of expanding the first time it is used and then you are supposed to remember what it means from there on.
On a site like this if a particular abbreviation is used often enough and is widely enough understood and accepted then there is no need to expand/explain. If ITM is not acceptable to a significant part of the mustard board then we should all stop using it.
17th century letters are hardly a precedent for current norms of behaviour
I promise I am going to give up on this now as I am off to the National Folk Festival in Canberra tomorrow.
# Posted on April 8th 2009 by Donough