I've played violin a long time but know very little of The Music. I went to a session last week and am dying to sit in but don't want to intrude inappropriately. With my limited knowledge, in an open session, how do I learn session etiquette without ruining things for the more experienced players?
I'm thinking of just showing up with a mandolin (much quieter than my fiddle) and playing quietly so I'm the only one who can hear (until I can learn some of the music, which doesn't feel the same when I learn it from the dots), but is that rude too? I love the music and the cameraderie and don't want to alienate anyone...
The session's description says it's "suitable for anyone wanting to have a good time with the music" and that's me, so I know I'm welcome. I could just use some pointers on what to do when I get there -- if I'm the only newbie, it may not occur to anyone to sort of ease me in.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
P.S. I actually asked this question in the Dictators thread but the discussion there was already complete, thus the re-post.
Vulcan666 - at last someone with a more provocative name than mine!
I hope it doesn't offend against the etiquette of thesession.org for a non-muso to be responding! But from what I've seen (and we who only sit and listen see a fair bit), you're thinking along the right lines. I suppose you could attend as a listener for a while and just observe the comings and goings, while learning some tunes at home, but if you're itching to join in, turning up with a mando and playing quietly will surely be as appropriate an introduction as any. You could join in on just a few tunes at first. Some sessions are led by a few who are paid by the pub, some not. You'll get a feel for who are the leaders, the regulars, and the visitors. They may play a lot of the same tunes every week; you can ask for the names (but maybe not after every set!). An eyebrow or two might (might!) get raised if you actually turn up at a session with sheet music, but an eyebrow won't kill you. Presumably, with your experience on the fiddle, you can pick up tunes by ear and ditch the dots soon enough. Just don't lead off on any sets your first week!
I sent you an email (sorry, very long, didn't edit it!) containing some tips I read about learning Irish Music (from a presently defunct website), both for beginners to an instrument, and trained musicians new to the Music. Also you could look at
And discussion threads crop up all the time on this site which would give you pointers about who you might usefully listen to on record. One even mentioned a book on session etiquette, but I think the author may have written it with his tongue rammed securely in his cheek - don't know, haven't seen it.
I received that interesting article on how to transition from violin to fiddle, thanks!
Thanks also for the encouragement on "just show up and play quietly". Too, I'll surely heed the advice not to lead off any sets first week!
My name has a sweet side too... 6/6 is my wedding day, and we were wed at 6 pm. But the "vulcan" thing, there's no washing the nerd out of it. Oh well.
The first step (and you're there already) is to recognize that such a thing as etiquette exists. Lots of people (guitar players, especially, it seems) don't get it. You do, so you're well on your way.
Each session has a slightly different protocol; at some, the leaders are definitely in charge, and the baton to start tunes stays with them. At others, the culture is more inclusive, and people start tunes in circular sequence, or the leader asks for contributions. At some, it's a bloody free-for-all.
You could do some scouting beforehand by attending without an instrument at all. Introduce yourself, suss out who the leaders are, and get a sense of what's going on. (As Yogi Berra said, you can observe a lot just by looking.) It's a fine idea to bring a nice quiet mandolin and to sit back and play quietly or inaudibly until you're comfortable. Few will be freaked out by this.
There are some sessions with unwritten and unspoken rules. Be assured that if you violate those rules, you will be tried and convicted in absentia. One of our local sessions is very relaxed, but the other has a more measured and formal feel. So I went to one of the leaders there, and simply asked point-blank for a favour. "I understand that there's such a thing as session protocol, and I want to get it right, but I'm liable to make some mistakes along the way. Could I ask you to let me know right away when I'm crossing any lines?" He agreed to this. It's a benefit to all concerned: I have the freedom to make mistakes, he has the freedom to let me know about them, and he knows that I'm trying to be respectful. I've been shooshed on one or two occasions (NEVER try to accompany a sean-nos singer or a slow air unless you are specifically asked to do so!), and I've caught the occasional glance that said "ssh!" Now I try to watch for it. To the extent that I see others getting into trouble, I try to make them aware that a leader is trying to get their attention, or I try to let them know about protocol breaches that I perceive might be causing stress. I also make it clear that I'm not The Session Cop; it's more a case of explaining to them what stands a chance of making them more or less welcome; suggestions, not rules.
Sessions are social and sociable events. If you're social and sociable, if you take it easy, try to fit in, and respect the local culture, you will be valued--and all the more so if you happen to play well.
Good advice above. And do a search of the discussion threads here for session etiquette--you'll see we've talked a lot about it, even intelligently on occasion.
For a funny and informative read, try Barry Foy's book, The Field Guide to the Irish Music Session (amazon.com).
Every session is different, and the same session can have different social mores from week to week depending on who shows up, how much they drink, and whether they're happy or mean drunks. That said, most of the sessions I've been to welcome new faces, *particularly* if they either (a) already understand the session culture and know a bunch of tunes, or (b) are new to the whole thing but are humble, eager to learn, play quietly, and find other ways to contribute (flattering the other players, buying drinks, showing a good sense of humor). In other words, no matter how good a musician you are, don't expect to be the center of attention, *especially* if you don't know any session tunes.
You sound like you're a good-natured, courteous guy, and that counts for a lot. You'd be surprised at how many twits show up at sessions expecting to impress everyone with their years of well-tutored technique or 12-part show piece of Black Mountain Rag. Or the classical violinist or bluegrass guitar player who assumes that they can sit in with no prior experience on the tchunes and pick it up on the fly. In twenty years of playing this stuff, I've seen that happen way too often, and not one of those egomaniacs ever came close to pulling it off. None of that is what sessions are about, and the players in the circle will smell that kind coming before they walk in the door.
I'd recommend going as a listener for a few times. Ask some of the better players if there's a local learning session or slow session. Ask if anyone gives lessons and explain that you want to learn the tunes. Ask if it's okay to bring a tape or minidisk recorder so you can work on the tunes at home. Such questions are usually welcomed at sessions, and it shows that you're respectful of the music and the session itself.
One of the better analogies I've heard here is that a session is like a conversation among friends. If you walked into a pub and found a small group discussing the frequency of vibrations emanating from black holes, you might be interested, but most people would consider it rude to just invite yourself in, talk loudly, change the subject, monopolize the conversation, speak in a different language, etc. Yet the musical equivalent happens all too often in Irish sessions.
But you're clearly on the right track. If you walked into my local session, you'd be encouraged and welcomed. We'd invite you to the monthly slow sessions, we'd suggest that you bring a minidisk recorder to learn the tunes, and we'd ask you to play a tune. And the beer is free!
Oh, and you can also hang around a session trying to pick up the names of tunes and then dig up the dots here at thesession.org. You might not get the exact same version being played at your local session, but usually it's close enough to catch the differences the next time you hear it. That way you can build a core of 20 or so common session tunes so you *can* join in on fiddle or mandolin.
And don't be shy about asking for a few fiddle lessons. Your classical training won't hurt you if you don't let it, but a good Irish fiddler can show you tricks of the trade that are hard to pick up on your own. That, and get used to learning by ear, and you'll be sitting in in no time.
Will, I was at a session when this guiter dude comes in and decides to take over b'tween tunes. He breaks into Daughter by Pearl Jam, which is an OK song in it's way I suppose, however, when he finished he had about 12 muscians and 75 patron just staring at him in utter disbelief!!
I used to tape new tunes from our session, but now we just slow down a little and play a tune enough for everyone else to pick it up. And we get together on the side to swap new tunes. Once you reach a certain familiarity with the music, it's a lot easier to learn new tunes by ear, even at full speed. It also helps if you hear them week after week.
If I travel to a session, I usually bring a tape recorder along. Always ask before hauling the microphone out, and keep it inconscpicous.
Heh, Robby, I've seen the same sort of thing--Pogues songs, bluegrass breakdowns, Bach, Mozart, etc. Mind you, someone who's been a regular at the session and shown his or her skill with the tchunes will be allowed a certain leeway with such detours, if they're short and not often repeated...all in good fun. But newcomers are digging their own grave if they try it.
Well, you're a friendly bunch, willing to help an old dog learn new tricks!
It won't be hard for me to avoid trying to be the center of attention. I'm no star, and as the saying goes, I've got plenty to be modest about. I just want to sit and play with musos having a good time. God, I miss making music with people.
I'll take the advice above (learn a few from the dots so I'm not totally lost, tape the session -- with permission -- to learn songs and sets from, ask straight out for the rules, bring my nice quiet mandolin) and see how it goes. Thanks so much!
Go for it John, and let us know how it works out. Oh, and if you run into the odd session grouch, don't take it personally or let it discourage you from your goal here. Playing in at sessions is great fun. Enjoy!
Heh, heh, Vulcan, hop on over to the Bb thread and check out bb's description of how to make an impression as a newbie at a session 8>)
(For the record, this is a session where I as a complete neophyte have been encouraged to come along and join in as much as I'm able, so I figure the behaviour must have been *determinedly* clueless, like, absolutely OTT.)
I once turned up at a session I had not been to before with a small whistle and a silver flute. I was really nervous when I was asked to play a tune for the first time, but I played - certainly not my best effort - ( I now drink more beer which = less nerves! ) Right enough most people new the tune joined in and rescued me!!
However, there seemed to be some wierd kind of disgust from the wooden flute player - who I think was also one of the session leaders. I admit I hadn't played well, he didn't seem too bothered about my nerves - fact of life, we've all seen it before, but he really did seem bothered about the fact that I had a silver flute at a session. As far as I am aware there is no problem with silver flutes at sessions -I had been playing it for many years and have been welcome at all those sessions. To cut a long story short - I am now a low whistle player, which much regret and hatred of some of the comments made that night, my flute has not been touched since (about 4 years now), I've almost forgotten how to play and my ambitions to practise on the silver flute whilst saving for a wooden flute, do not exist anymore.
I guess what I'm trying to say is get stuck in at the session, enjoy it, as you are aware of this 'etiquette' you shouldn't have any bother. Don't get stuck being known as a mandolin player if its fiddle you want to be playing, aye start off quietly with the mandolin - but get the fiddle out soon. You could even take both, learn a handful of session tunes which are more than likely to crop up, and learn them really well. Play those you know on the fiddle and tinker away quietly with the mandolin where you are not so confident. I used to try and do this with flute and whistle - now I tend to shy in a corner quietly with my whistle - don't get stuck in that corner forever.
And if you're not welcomed at whichever session you go to first, find another one, there's plenty of sessions out there which are welcoming. Don't let any old grumpy session leader (who I reckon get a bit territorial) put you off!!!!!!
Good luck, let us know how you get on. Where are you based? Maybe someone would be able to recommend a session to you.....
Unless you are really in the starting blocks to play in a strange session, why either bring an instrument or get it out if you have?
You will learn just as much if not more, by listening, and by getting into conversation with the right person.
Ask the right questions, pick the right brains, and you will get all sorts of tips and tread on no toes.
I would always get my instrument straight away as all I want to do is play and/or learn new tunes.
If possible, seek out a "quality session" with good musicians or a good slow session which is properly led by an experienced player. You'll find that, no matter what your level, it's much easier to play with good musicians rather than participating in some of these free for alls which sometimes masquerade as sessions; eg out of time, out of tune, badly learned versions of tunes as opposed to different styles and variations. Not that I'm claiming to be a great musician myself but I try to play as properly as I can and , if necessary, sparingly.
As long as you have the right attitude, you can sit in with the best players and not be criticised as long as you think before you play.
Questions for jkneale... did the session leader SAY that he was disgusted by the silver flute? Or was that something that you inferred from his expression?
There are two important points here. One is that you can't read peoples minds, nor should you try. If there was something bothering him, it's up to him to tell you specifically what it was. And if he's not telling you specifically, it's up to you to ask, specifically.
The second point: is it possible that your response to this circumstance was a little drastic? In my view, four years is a long time to abandon an instrument based on a THEORY about what ONE person MIGHT have SEEMED to have been thinking. And even if it were confirmed, this is just one person--evidently a stranger to you at the time, to boot. Does this single person's opinion carry so much weight that you're willing to drop the work of a lifetime for it? Isn't that your decision? Like nastyweegirl, I would suggest getting out of the corner; and I would also encourage you to dust off the flute if it makes you feel good--and if it fits at the session, play it there.
jkneale - as a predominantly silver flute player myself, and please don't take this personally, I think it's a much better instrument than the low whistle. And, although maybe not as responsive to rolls, etc., the silver machine can do some stuff the blackwood one cannot..... eg try playing O'Dowd's # 2 (I think) on the low whistle or wooden flute, then try it on the silver.
Don't worry about the opinion of yer man - I play silver with impunity.
I understand what you mean jkneale. I was a violinist from very early in life, and one of my first music teachers was also the choir director. I wanted to sing but she told me I shouldn't, as my playing was much better than my singing. Even now, about 35 years later, I still feel reticent to sing. I hope you overcome your feelings better than I did.
That said, THANK YOU EVERYONE. Your advice and encouragement made me feel comfortable with going in and joining, and go in I did. I sat past the fringe of the circle at a table with my mandolin and played entirely inaudibly, just to get a feel for the speed and swing. After a few sets, one of the players came over and invited me to sit in, even though I told her I was a novice. I did sit in, and I played very quietly, and I just had the BEST TIME. After midnight, they played through one simple tune a couple extra times for some reason (maybe to let me pick it up and join in?), The Britches Full of Stitches, so I actually joined in at full combat speed and volume for the last two rounds of that one. And one of the session members has assembled the dots for a bunch of the tunes they play, so I'm getting a copy of that next week.
There is simply nothing like making music with people having a good time, and you folks helped me get going. I think I'll be spending a lot of Thursday nights there. Thanks again, all.
For all of us who at one time or another have found ourselves
creatively blocked, (and who hasn't?), it's essential to find a copy of Julia Cameron's book, "The Artists Way". It explains in detail how those comments by negative people are so destructive to creativity. Elementary school teachers who tell
children that they can't do something because blah, blah, are probably blocked creatives themselves who have a need to sanctify their own failure by encouraging failure in others. Understanding how powerful this negativity is has allowed me to overcome several large scale blockages in my own creative life. Julia's book gave me the insights I needed. I highly recommend it.
Chris
John, if you're up to it, give us a post now and then to tell us the continuing story. Sounds like you've found a welcoming session with some good people. That *is* a great start. And don't be too shy about bringing that fiddle--it's just as possible to play quietly on fiddle as on mandolin, and I guarantee you'll have fun with the bowing--swinging into a good reel or jig is as much a physical pleasure as it is intellectual or emotional, just the act of moving that bow in time to the music. Go for it!
Unique--you are so right about those negative comments from teachers and others from when we were kids, and adults too. You have reminded me of that wonderful book and I think I may just dust it off and take a look at it again!
A little off topic here, but I once had a (male) art teacher in high school who actually told me that women usually go into fashion illustration and fashion design and that men go into the fine arts like painting and sculpture. What a loser. At the time I was hoping for a carrer in the arts and was so impressionable...
The music, and arts departments, of schools and universities have many people who are eminent performers in their own right, often at an international level. It's just that they prefer to teach, and for that we should be most grateful; it's how the torch is passed on.
Trevor
Jim, my cello teacher passed away some years ago, and it wasn't long afterwards I realised that the buck now stopped with me - it was up to me to sort out problems and think things through. Carrying the torch perhaps, or at least a few flickering embers of it, I suppose.
Trevor
Sorry, all you teachers out there, that was meant to be tongue in cheek... Some of my best friends are teachers...
(My mum and dad were both teachers as well. The "those who can" quote was one of her favourite sayings.)
I was in Dingle in a great session pub over the summer and asked them to play a particular tune that I'm trying to learn at the moment (mentioned that I play the fiddle). Two minutes later I was asked by the owner of the pub who was playing if I wanted to join in, he could find me a fiddle somewhere! Unfortunately my playing skills wouldn't be up to standard yet but next time I visit I know I'll be welcome with my instrument.
Session Etiquette
Session Etiquette
I've played violin a long time but know very little of The Music. I went to a session last week and am dying to sit in but don't want to intrude inappropriately. With my limited knowledge, in an open session, how do I learn session etiquette without ruining things for the more experienced players?
I'm thinking of just showing up with a mandolin (much quieter than my fiddle) and playing quietly so I'm the only one who can hear (until I can learn some of the music, which doesn't feel the same when I learn it from the dots), but is that rude too? I love the music and the cameraderie and don't want to alienate anyone...
The session's description says it's "suitable for anyone wanting to have a good time with the music" and that's me, so I know I'm welcome. I could just use some pointers on what to do when I get there -- if I'm the only newbie, it may not occur to anyone to sort of ease me in.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
P.S. I actually asked this question in the Dictators thread but the discussion there was already complete, thus the re-post.
# Posted on September 11th 2003 by vulcan666
Re: Session Etiquette
Vulcan666 - at last someone with a more provocative name than mine!
I hope it doesn't offend against the etiquette of thesession.org for a non-muso to be responding! But from what I've seen (and we who only sit and listen see a fair bit), you're thinking along the right lines. I suppose you could attend as a listener for a while and just observe the comings and goings, while learning some tunes at home, but if you're itching to join in, turning up with a mando and playing quietly will surely be as appropriate an introduction as any. You could join in on just a few tunes at first. Some sessions are led by a few who are paid by the pub, some not. You'll get a feel for who are the leaders, the regulars, and the visitors. They may play a lot of the same tunes every week; you can ask for the names (but maybe not after every set!). An eyebrow or two might (might!) get raised if you actually turn up at a session with sheet music, but an eyebrow won't kill you. Presumably, with your experience on the fiddle, you can pick up tunes by ear and ditch the dots soon enough. Just don't lead off on any sets your first week!
I sent you an email (sorry, very long, didn't edit it!) containing some tips I read about learning Irish Music (from a presently defunct website), both for beginners to an instrument, and trained musicians new to the Music. Also you could look at
http://alan-ng.net/irish/learning/ for learning tips and links
http://thesession.org/discussions/display.php/2107 for a collection of session tunes and sets treabhar macsheoinin recommended
And discussion threads crop up all the time on this site which would give you pointers about who you might usefully listen to on record. One even mentioned a book on session etiquette, but I think the author may have written it with his tongue rammed securely in his cheek - don't know, haven't seen it.
# Posted on September 11th 2003 by nastyweegirl
Re: Session Etiquette
I received that interesting article on how to transition from violin to fiddle, thanks!
But the "vulcan" thing, there's no washing the nerd out of it. Oh well.
Thanks also for the encouragement on "just show up and play quietly". Too, I'll surely heed the advice not to lead off any sets first week!
My name has a sweet side too... 6/6 is my wedding day, and we were wed at 6 pm.
# Posted on September 11th 2003 by vulcan666
Re: Session Etiquette
The first step (and you're there already) is to recognize that such a thing as etiquette exists. Lots of people (guitar players, especially, it seems) don't get it. You do, so you're well on your way.
Each session has a slightly different protocol; at some, the leaders are definitely in charge, and the baton to start tunes stays with them. At others, the culture is more inclusive, and people start tunes in circular sequence, or the leader asks for contributions. At some, it's a bloody free-for-all.
You could do some scouting beforehand by attending without an instrument at all. Introduce yourself, suss out who the leaders are, and get a sense of what's going on. (As Yogi Berra said, you can observe a lot just by looking.) It's a fine idea to bring a nice quiet mandolin and to sit back and play quietly or inaudibly until you're comfortable. Few will be freaked out by this.
There are some sessions with unwritten and unspoken rules. Be assured that if you violate those rules, you will be tried and convicted in absentia. One of our local sessions is very relaxed, but the other has a more measured and formal feel. So I went to one of the leaders there, and simply asked point-blank for a favour. "I understand that there's such a thing as session protocol, and I want to get it right, but I'm liable to make some mistakes along the way. Could I ask you to let me know right away when I'm crossing any lines?" He agreed to this. It's a benefit to all concerned: I have the freedom to make mistakes, he has the freedom to let me know about them, and he knows that I'm trying to be respectful. I've been shooshed on one or two occasions (NEVER try to accompany a sean-nos singer or a slow air unless you are specifically asked to do so!), and I've caught the occasional glance that said "ssh!" Now I try to watch for it. To the extent that I see others getting into trouble, I try to make them aware that a leader is trying to get their attention, or I try to let them know about protocol breaches that I perceive might be causing stress. I also make it clear that I'm not The Session Cop; it's more a case of explaining to them what stands a chance of making them more or less welcome; suggestions, not rules.
Sessions are social and sociable events. If you're social and sociable, if you take it easy, try to fit in, and respect the local culture, you will be valued--and all the more so if you happen to play well.
---Michael B.
# Posted on September 11th 2003 by MichaelBolton
Re: Session Etiquette
Good advice above. And do a search of the discussion threads here for session etiquette--you'll see we've talked a lot about it, even intelligently on occasion.
For a funny and informative read, try Barry Foy's book, The Field Guide to the Irish Music Session (amazon.com).
Every session is different, and the same session can have different social mores from week to week depending on who shows up, how much they drink, and whether they're happy or mean drunks. That said, most of the sessions I've been to welcome new faces, *particularly* if they either (a) already understand the session culture and know a bunch of tunes, or (b) are new to the whole thing but are humble, eager to learn, play quietly, and find other ways to contribute (flattering the other players, buying drinks, showing a good sense of humor). In other words, no matter how good a musician you are, don't expect to be the center of attention, *especially* if you don't know any session tunes.
You sound like you're a good-natured, courteous guy, and that counts for a lot. You'd be surprised at how many twits show up at sessions expecting to impress everyone with their years of well-tutored technique or 12-part show piece of Black Mountain Rag. Or the classical violinist or bluegrass guitar player who assumes that they can sit in with no prior experience on the tchunes and pick it up on the fly. In twenty years of playing this stuff, I've seen that happen way too often, and not one of those egomaniacs ever came close to pulling it off. None of that is what sessions are about, and the players in the circle will smell that kind coming before they walk in the door.
I'd recommend going as a listener for a few times. Ask some of the better players if there's a local learning session or slow session. Ask if anyone gives lessons and explain that you want to learn the tunes. Ask if it's okay to bring a tape or minidisk recorder so you can work on the tunes at home. Such questions are usually welcomed at sessions, and it shows that you're respectful of the music and the session itself.
One of the better analogies I've heard here is that a session is like a conversation among friends. If you walked into a pub and found a small group discussing the frequency of vibrations emanating from black holes, you might be interested, but most people would consider it rude to just invite yourself in, talk loudly, change the subject, monopolize the conversation, speak in a different language, etc. Yet the musical equivalent happens all too often in Irish sessions.
But you're clearly on the right track. If you walked into my local session, you'd be encouraged and welcomed. We'd invite you to the monthly slow sessions, we'd suggest that you bring a minidisk recorder to learn the tunes, and we'd ask you to play a tune. And the beer is free!
# Posted on September 11th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: Session Etiquette
Oh, and you can also hang around a session trying to pick up the names of tunes and then dig up the dots here at thesession.org. You might not get the exact same version being played at your local session, but usually it's close enough to catch the differences the next time you hear it. That way you can build a core of 20 or so common session tunes so you *can* join in on fiddle or mandolin.
And don't be shy about asking for a few fiddle lessons. Your classical training won't hurt you if you don't let it, but a good Irish fiddler can show you tricks of the trade that are hard to pick up on your own. That, and get used to learning by ear, and you'll be sitting in in no time.
# Posted on September 11th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: Session Etiquette
It occurs to me to ask, do thesessioneers regularly tape their own sessions, and send each other copies? And if not, might they consider it?
# Posted on September 11th 2003 by nastyweegirl
Re: Session Etiquette
Will, I was at a session when this guiter dude comes in and decides to take over b'tween tunes. He breaks into Daughter by Pearl Jam, which is an OK song in it's way I suppose, however, when he finished he had about 12 muscians and 75 patron just staring at him in utter disbelief!!
Sorry for the tangent, carry on........
# Posted on September 11th 2003 by Robby B.
Re: Session Etiquette
I used to tape new tunes from our session, but now we just slow down a little and play a tune enough for everyone else to pick it up. And we get together on the side to swap new tunes. Once you reach a certain familiarity with the music, it's a lot easier to learn new tunes by ear, even at full speed. It also helps if you hear them week after week.
If I travel to a session, I usually bring a tape recorder along. Always ask before hauling the microphone out, and keep it inconscpicous.
# Posted on September 11th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: Session Etiquette
Heh, Robby, I've seen the same sort of thing--Pogues songs, bluegrass breakdowns, Bach, Mozart, etc. Mind you, someone who's been a regular at the session and shown his or her skill with the tchunes will be allowed a certain leeway with such detours, if they're short and not often repeated...all in good fun. But newcomers are digging their own grave if they try it.
# Posted on September 11th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: Session Etiquette
Well, you're a friendly bunch, willing to help an old dog learn new tricks!
It won't be hard for me to avoid trying to be the center of attention. I'm no star, and as the saying goes, I've got plenty to be modest about. I just want to sit and play with musos having a good time. God, I miss making music with people.
I'll take the advice above (learn a few from the dots so I'm not totally lost, tape the session -- with permission -- to learn songs and sets from, ask straight out for the rules, bring my nice quiet mandolin) and see how it goes. Thanks so much!
--- John
# Posted on September 11th 2003 by vulcan666
Re: Session Etiquette
Go for it John, and let us know how it works out. Oh, and if you run into the odd session grouch, don't take it personally or let it discourage you from your goal here. Playing in at sessions is great fun. Enjoy!
# Posted on September 11th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: Session Etiquette
Heh, heh, Vulcan, hop on over to the Bb thread and check out bb's description of how to make an impression as a newbie at a session 8>)
(For the record, this is a session where I as a complete neophyte have been encouraged to come along and join in as much as I'm able, so I figure the behaviour must have been *determinedly* clueless, like, absolutely OTT.)
# Posted on September 11th 2003 by Tish
Re: Session Etiquette
I once turned up at a session I had not been to before with a small whistle and a silver flute. I was really nervous when I was asked to play a tune for the first time, but I played - certainly not my best effort - ( I now drink more beer which = less nerves! ) Right enough most people new the tune joined in and rescued me!!
However, there seemed to be some wierd kind of disgust from the wooden flute player - who I think was also one of the session leaders. I admit I hadn't played well, he didn't seem too bothered about my nerves - fact of life, we've all seen it before, but he really did seem bothered about the fact that I had a silver flute at a session. As far as I am aware there is no problem with silver flutes at sessions -I had been playing it for many years and have been welcome at all those sessions. To cut a long story short - I am now a low whistle player, which much regret and hatred of some of the comments made that night, my flute has not been touched since (about 4 years now), I've almost forgotten how to play and my ambitions to practise on the silver flute whilst saving for a wooden flute, do not exist anymore.
I guess what I'm trying to say is get stuck in at the session, enjoy it, as you are aware of this 'etiquette' you shouldn't have any bother. Don't get stuck being known as a mandolin player if its fiddle you want to be playing, aye start off quietly with the mandolin - but get the fiddle out soon. You could even take both, learn a handful of session tunes which are more than likely to crop up, and learn them really well. Play those you know on the fiddle and tinker away quietly with the mandolin where you are not so confident. I used to try and do this with flute and whistle - now I tend to shy in a corner quietly with my whistle - don't get stuck in that corner forever.
And if you're not welcomed at whichever session you go to first, find another one, there's plenty of sessions out there which are welcoming. Don't let any old grumpy session leader (who I reckon get a bit territorial) put you off!!!!!!
Good luck, let us know how you get on. Where are you based? Maybe someone would be able to recommend a session to you.....
# Posted on September 11th 2003 by jkneale
Re: Session Etiquette
Unless you are really in the starting blocks to play in a strange session, why either bring an instrument or get it out if you have?
You will learn just as much if not more, by listening, and by getting into conversation with the right person.
Ask the right questions, pick the right brains, and you will get all sorts of tips and tread on no toes.
I would always get my instrument straight away as all I want to do is play and/or learn new tunes.
# Posted on September 11th 2003 by geoffwright
Re: Session Etiquette
... and jkneale, get yerself outta that corner, girl! ....
# Posted on September 11th 2003 by nastyweegirl
Re: Session Etiquette
If possible, seek out a "quality session" with good musicians or a good slow session which is properly led by an experienced player. You'll find that, no matter what your level, it's much easier to play with good musicians rather than participating in some of these free for alls which sometimes masquerade as sessions; eg out of time, out of tune, badly learned versions of tunes as opposed to different styles and variations. Not that I'm claiming to be a great musician myself but I try to play as properly as I can and , if necessary, sparingly.
As long as you have the right attitude, you can sit in with the best players and not be criticised as long as you think before you play.
John
# Posted on September 12th 2003 by John J.
Silver vs. Wooden Flute
Questions for jkneale... did the session leader SAY that he was disgusted by the silver flute? Or was that something that you inferred from his expression?
There are two important points here. One is that you can't read peoples minds, nor should you try. If there was something bothering him, it's up to him to tell you specifically what it was. And if he's not telling you specifically, it's up to you to ask, specifically.
The second point: is it possible that your response to this circumstance was a little drastic? In my view, four years is a long time to abandon an instrument based on a THEORY about what ONE person MIGHT have SEEMED to have been thinking. And even if it were confirmed, this is just one person--evidently a stranger to you at the time, to boot. Does this single person's opinion carry so much weight that you're willing to drop the work of a lifetime for it? Isn't that your decision? Like nastyweegirl, I would suggest getting out of the corner; and I would also encourage you to dust off the flute if it makes you feel good--and if it fits at the session, play it there.
---Michael B.
# Posted on September 12th 2003 by MichaelBolton
Re: Session Etiquette
jkneale - as a predominantly silver flute player myself, and please don't take this personally, I think it's a much better instrument than the low whistle. And, although maybe not as responsive to rolls, etc., the silver machine can do some stuff the blackwood one cannot..... eg try playing O'Dowd's # 2 (I think) on the low whistle or wooden flute, then try it on the silver.
Don't worry about the opinion of yer man - I play silver with impunity.
Danny.
# Posted on September 12th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Session Etiquette
I understand what you mean jkneale. I was a violinist from very early in life, and one of my first music teachers was also the choir director. I wanted to sing but she told me I shouldn't, as my playing was much better than my singing. Even now, about 35 years later, I still feel reticent to sing. I hope you overcome your feelings better than I did.
That said, THANK YOU EVERYONE. Your advice and encouragement made me feel comfortable with going in and joining, and go in I did. I sat past the fringe of the circle at a table with my mandolin and played entirely inaudibly, just to get a feel for the speed and swing. After a few sets, one of the players came over and invited me to sit in, even though I told her I was a novice. I did sit in, and I played very quietly, and I just had the BEST TIME. After midnight, they played through one simple tune a couple extra times for some reason (maybe to let me pick it up and join in?), The Britches Full of Stitches, so I actually joined in at full combat speed and volume for the last two rounds of that one. And one of the session members has assembled the dots for a bunch of the tunes they play, so I'm getting a copy of that next week.
There is simply nothing like making music with people having a good time, and you folks helped me get going. I think I'll be spending a lot of Thursday nights there. Thanks again, all.
# Posted on September 12th 2003 by vulcan666
Re: Session Etiquette
It occurred to me to say "a happy ending!", but it sounds more like a happy beginning. Yay for you!
---Michael B.
# Posted on September 13th 2003 by MichaelBolton
Re: a happy beginning
I'm looking forward to a post from j kneale, saying she and her silver darlin' are startin' over ....
# Posted on September 13th 2003 by nastyweegirl
Re: Session Etiquette
Re: Michael Boltons observation above:
For all of us who at one time or another have found ourselves
creatively blocked, (and who hasn't?), it's essential to find a copy of Julia Cameron's book, "The Artists Way". It explains in detail how those comments by negative people are so destructive to creativity. Elementary school teachers who tell
children that they can't do something because blah, blah, are probably blocked creatives themselves who have a need to sanctify their own failure by encouraging failure in others. Understanding how powerful this negativity is has allowed me to overcome several large scale blockages in my own creative life. Julia's book gave me the insights I needed. I highly recommend it.
Chris
# Posted on September 13th 2003 by unique
Re: Session Etiquette
John, if you're up to it, give us a post now and then to tell us the continuing story. Sounds like you've found a welcoming session with some good people. That *is* a great start. And don't be too shy about bringing that fiddle--it's just as possible to play quietly on fiddle as on mandolin, and I guarantee you'll have fun with the bowing--swinging into a good reel or jig is as much a physical pleasure as it is intellectual or emotional, just the act of moving that bow in time to the music. Go for it!
# Posted on September 13th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: Session Etiquette
Unique--you are so right about those negative comments from teachers and others from when we were kids, and adults too. You have reminded me of that wonderful book and I think I may just dust it off and take a look at it again!
A little off topic here, but I once had a (male) art teacher in high school who actually told me that women usually go into fashion illustration and fashion design and that men go into the fine arts like painting and sculpture. What a loser. At the time I was hoping for a carrer in the arts and was so impressionable...
# Posted on September 13th 2003 by Andee
Re: Session Etiquette
Those who can, do. Those who can't ....
# Posted on September 14th 2003 by Ottery
Re: Session Etiquette
"Those who can, do. Those who can't ...."
Go on, Ottery. How's that quote end again?
chris smith
# Posted on September 14th 2003 by coyotebanjo
Re: Session Etiquette
The music, and arts departments, of schools and universities have many people who are eminent performers in their own right, often at an international level. It's just that they prefer to teach, and for that we should be most grateful; it's how the torch is passed on.
Trevor
# Posted on September 14th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Session Etiquette
Apologies for continuing off-topic, but : Spot on, Trevor. I was taught by one, and I'm most grateful. Sadly he has since passed away.
Jim
# Posted on September 14th 2003 by Worldfiddler
Re: Session Etiquette
Jim, my cello teacher passed away some years ago, and it wasn't long afterwards I realised that the buck now stopped with me - it was up to me to sort out problems and think things through. Carrying the torch perhaps, or at least a few flickering embers of it, I suppose.
Trevor
# Posted on September 14th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Session Etiquette
Sorry, all you teachers out there, that was meant to be tongue in cheek... Some of my best friends are teachers...
(My mum and dad were both teachers as well. The "those who can" quote was one of her favourite sayings.)
# Posted on September 14th 2003 by Ottery
Re: Session Etiquette
Did get the silver flute back out - needs a good dose of TLC, could still just about play it though!!!
Thanks
# Posted on September 19th 2003 by jkneale
Re: Session Etiquette
j kneale - very pleased to hear it! Should warm the cockles of Danny's heart, too. You go, girl!
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by nastyweegirl
Re: Session Etiquette
I was in Dingle in a great session pub over the summer and asked them to play a particular tune that I'm trying to learn at the moment (mentioned that I play the fiddle). Two minutes later I was asked by the owner of the pub who was playing if I wanted to join in, he could find me a fiddle somewhere! Unfortunately my playing skills wouldn't be up to standard yet but next time I visit I know I'll be welcome with my instrument.
# Posted on October 12th 2003 by DG