Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Naughty, naughty Mix, you're supposed to own up at 12 o' clock on the first. Was a cracker though, I only didn't get caught through the luck of being busy yesterday. Good one though, taking sessions from traddies, now that would have me emigrating.
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Well, I thought it strange that you couldn't give us any references, eg newspaper articles etc re the subject. Only that you learned about it from your concertina group.
However, I gave you the benefit of the doubt. It was a bit naughty to continue after Danny seemed to "rumble" you though.
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
I suppose it was a "bit naughty", Jon - but that is the nature of April Fool hoaxes ...
Before retiring, I worked in the IT industry. Part of that work was "disaster recovery planning". So, (if and when things did go wrong), instead of having to run around like lunatics trying to fix the system whilst fending off customer complaints, all we had to do was select one of our carefully-planned solutions.
So with regard to this hoax, I had ancticipated in advance that someone might blow it, and actually had a few pre-prepared responses saved as text files ... so all I had to do was select an appropriate response, and paste it in ...
Some sessions and events in UK seem not to be threatened by UK legislation
Mix, it is not totally an April Fool's Day joke. I am having hassles with the law as it stands. I'm trying to figure out some way to carry off a regular dance/ceili, intended for 'educational' purposes, to give developing musicians an in to playing for dance, and to give dancers an opportunity to move to live music. However ~ there does seem to be an issue with needing licenses, and at the few venues I've made some inquiry with that concern has been raised repeatedly. While most of what we do is acoustic, I am considering using a small sound system for the core musicians, the sit-ins would be off mic, so that the better players are given a little more oomph and the less developed have something to lose themselve in.
When the new law came into swing there were problems then with people and councils and police not having a clear understanding of it. While acoustic sessions where there's no money collected seem to be catered for, THERE ARE STILL PROBLEMS!!! AAAAAAAAAA!!! So, I'm not laughing I'm grimacing over this one... I hope to have a meeting with someone in the council to hash this one out...
(pulling my hair out! Hey, wait a minute, I haven't got any... )
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Ah yes, Ceol - many a true word is spoken in jest ....
.. and the way things seem to be going, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the UK government did one day bring a "play list" system which would be applicable to sessions .....
... and if they do ... remember ... you read it here first ....
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Oh dear - and I've already gone and set up an online petition about it, providing a link to this site, look: http://www.topetition.co.uk/
Scroll down to number 1409.
Also note further down, it is a criminal offence to create false online petitions, and the webmaster is held responsible. I think you've got some explaining to do to Jeremy.
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
"~ a 'play list' system which would be applicable to sessions ..... "
It might not be easy to find the discussion thread, but this did happen. It was the performing rights folks, ignoramuses when it comes to understanding music, especially things with some history behind them and pre-dating their formation, who was raising a rucus with venues and trying to get them to PAY for the courtesy of playing 'traditional tunes'. They have some rediculously endless list that traditional tunes have populated, old standards that exist in old collections like O'Neill's. It seems that some daft idiots do a recording and in the processing lay claim to tunes by title, as if they had composed them, so composer's rights, but probably about their particular arrangement of something like "Rolling in the Ryegrass" or "The Rolling Waves". Because these bozos attached to the Performing Rights folks were hassling landlords of pubs there was enough confusion to threated the close of at least one regular session.
I have some personal experience, family in the business of selling recordings, and they pay a license to let people hear the music they sell. This is different than laying claim on old tunes and trying to get a pub landlord to pay for the right to let musicians throw a session. Yes, in a manner of speaking, it is about play lists. The fault isn't just with the organization, it's with the jerks who think they have a right to lay claim on a tune because they play it a certain way. What next, will we be penalized if we roll on bar 3 of a given tune the same way that Grey Larsen does? Will it then be by percentages? I play this 12% under the influence of so-and-so and 33 & a third under the influence of Jameson Crested Ten? So, do I owe something more to the Jameson brewery than the cost of the glass or bottle?
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
I think we should set up a petition to bring back the death penalty to guitarists who turn up uninvited at sessions. To be strung up by their own strings.
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Mix O'Lydian, you are a wind-up and a s-d. You have made me feel ridiculous in the presence of my peers, and have gone on to take the wind out of my sails as I was about to charge into a truly humungous rant on the state of things, in the finest tradition of The Waily Tail and other such august intellectual organs.
I know your sort.
You would slither up a duct into an Oxford Street superstore and set off smokebombs and fire alarms as soon as a million people had fought their way inside on the first day of the sales.
You would decoy G20 protesters into a vulnerable place by raining used fivers and obsolete European banknotes out of a high window, so that police water-cannon could give them the washing of their lives.
I would. It seems an obvious thing to do. I wonder why they haven't. Maybe I should be Chief Constable.
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Well, Nicholas, apart from in the Waily Tail, one can also read similar rantings in the Daily Torygraph - albeit a little more subdued in that particular publication ... .
As for slithering, slithy-tove fashion into ducts in Oxford Street, Im afraid that my caving days are long since over, so you'll need to find another volunteer for that job.
Good luck with the application for "chief con" - though you may find yourself up against some serious opposition! ....
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
What a wag/card/jolly japer you are. It's nearly as funny as the new-fangled sport of jesters with made-up names telling other people how to play music in a made-up traditional style which has nothing to do with its roots. Ha ha ha indeed. Ho ho ho I can't stop laughing.
Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Time to own up!
My thread of yesterday was indeed an April 1st hoax:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/21154
Thanks for all the responses. Looking through them, it would seem that some folks might have actually been taken in by it ...
Still, it does serve to illustrate how things have changed for the worse in the UK. Twenty years ago, no-one would have believed it at all ...
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Naughty, naughty Mix, you're supposed to own up at 12 o' clock on the first. Was a cracker though, I only didn't get caught through the luck of being busy yesterday. Good one though, taking sessions from traddies, now that would have me emigrating.
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by bogman
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
True, Bogman - but 12 o'clock where in the world?
.. i was thinking internationally! ....
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Ah, you have a case there. Clever way of manipulating etiquette
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by bogman
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Hmmm ... etiquette .. something that will no doubt eventually be managed by OFFSESH ....
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Well, I thought it strange that you couldn't give us any references, eg newspaper articles etc re the subject. Only that you learned about it from your concertina group.
However, I gave you the benefit of the doubt. It was a bit naughty to continue after Danny seemed to "rumble" you though.
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by Johnny Jay
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
I suppose it was a "bit naughty", Jon - but that is the nature of April Fool hoaxes ...
Before retiring, I worked in the IT industry. Part of that work was "disaster recovery planning". So, (if and when things did go wrong), instead of having to run around like lunatics trying to fix the system whilst fending off customer complaints, all we had to do was select one of our carefully-planned solutions.
So with regard to this hoax, I had ancticipated in advance that someone might blow it, and actually had a few pre-prepared responses saved as text files ... so all I had to do was select an appropriate response, and paste it in ...
... it would have been a pity to waste them ....
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Some sessions and events in UK seem not to be threatened by UK legislation
Mix, it is not totally an April Fool's Day joke. I am having hassles with the law as it stands. I'm trying to figure out some way to carry off a regular dance/ceili, intended for 'educational' purposes, to give developing musicians an in to playing for dance, and to give dancers an opportunity to move to live music. However ~ there does seem to be an issue with needing licenses, and at the few venues I've made some inquiry with that concern has been raised repeatedly. While most of what we do is acoustic, I am considering using a small sound system for the core musicians, the sit-ins would be off mic, so that the better players are given a little more oomph and the less developed have something to lose themselve in.
)
When the new law came into swing there were problems then with people and councils and police not having a clear understanding of it. While acoustic sessions where there's no money collected seem to be catered for, THERE ARE STILL PROBLEMS!!! AAAAAAAAAA!!! So, I'm not laughing I'm grimacing over this one... I hope to have a meeting with someone in the council to hash this one out...
(pulling my hair out! Hey, wait a minute, I haven't got any...
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
... including my response to Bogman above (regarding international time zones), which I didn't actually use until today!
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Sorry Jon, Ceolachan - x-posted!
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Rats!! I was enjoying a good Daily Mail style rant against the government - but a great hoax (glad it was a hoax).
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by Mark Harmer
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Ah yes, Ceol - many a true word is spoken in jest ....
.. and the way things seem to be going, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the UK government did one day bring a "play list" system which would be applicable to sessions .....
... and if they do ... remember ... you read it here first ....
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
OK Mark - I'll believe you (although thousands wouldn't) ...
And talking of "rats" iI was once caricatured playing a whistle in a cartoon as "The Pied Piper" in the company of rats!
q.v.
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/21105/comments#comment439932
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Oh dear - and I've already gone and set up an online petition about it, providing a link to this site, look:
http://www.topetition.co.uk/
Scroll down to number 1409.
Also note further down, it is a criminal offence to create false online petitions, and the webmaster is held responsible. I think you've got some explaining to do to Jeremy.
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by Rudall the time
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Dammit you got be annoyed about nanny governments for the whole day! I'm still annoyed! :p
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by dee.
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
got me* annoyed
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by dee.
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Can't say that I've ever heard of that website, Thistle
But someone (presumably not you) would appear to have swallowed the bait, and put one on here!
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Sorry dee, if I indavertently raised your blood-sugar level yesterday ....
... but if you're worried about the nanny state, check this one out ...
http://i.pbase.com/g6/16/673416/2/84526947.cAstxaje.jpg
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Don't tell me you actually clicked that, mix
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by Rudall the time
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
"~ a 'play list' system which would be applicable to sessions ..... "
It might not be easy to find the discussion thread, but this did happen. It was the performing rights folks, ignoramuses when it comes to understanding music, especially things with some history behind them and pre-dating their formation, who was raising a rucus with venues and trying to get them to PAY for the courtesy of playing 'traditional tunes'. They have some rediculously endless list that traditional tunes have populated, old standards that exist in old collections like O'Neill's. It seems that some daft idiots do a recording and in the processing lay claim to tunes by title, as if they had composed them, so composer's rights, but probably about their particular arrangement of something like "Rolling in the Ryegrass" or "The Rolling Waves". Because these bozos attached to the Performing Rights folks were hassling landlords of pubs there was enough confusion to threated the close of at least one regular session.
I have some personal experience, family in the business of selling recordings, and they pay a license to let people hear the music they sell. This is different than laying claim on old tunes and trying to get a pub landlord to pay for the right to let musicians throw a session. Yes, in a manner of speaking, it is about play lists. The fault isn't just with the organization, it's with the jerks who think they have a right to lay claim on a tune because they play it a certain way. What next, will we be penalized if we roll on bar 3 of a given tune the same way that Grey Larsen does? Will it then be by percentages? I play this 12% under the influence of so-and-so and 33 & a third under the influence of Jameson Crested Ten? So, do I owe something more to the Jameson brewery than the cost of the glass or bottle?
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
That's the thing -- the "nanny state" and dumbassed licensing laws have already gotten so out of hand here that Mix's post was far from unbelievable.
And it gave us the opportunity for a well-earned rant.
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
I think we should set up a petition to bring back the death penalty to guitarists who turn up uninvited at sessions. To be strung up by their own strings.
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by Rudall the time
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Well played, Mix. Well played.
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by NEW Pure Drop® Ear Canal Oil
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Why thank you, New Pure Drop ...
... shame that no-one every makes that remark in respect of my playing at the pub ....
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Mix O'Lydian, you are a wind-up and a s-d. You have made me feel ridiculous in the presence of my peers, and have gone on to take the wind out of my sails as I was about to charge into a truly humungous rant on the state of things, in the finest tradition of The Waily Tail and other such august intellectual organs.
I know your sort.
You would slither up a duct into an Oxford Street superstore and set off smokebombs and fire alarms as soon as a million people had fought their way inside on the first day of the sales.
You would decoy G20 protesters into a vulnerable place by raining used fivers and obsolete European banknotes out of a high window, so that police water-cannon could give them the washing of their lives.
I would. It seems an obvious thing to do. I wonder why they haven't. Maybe I should be Chief Constable.
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by nicholas
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
YOU BASTARD!!!!!! YOU TAXMAN!!!!!!
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by fedorastain
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Aye mix don't give the government ideas... I would be knackered as I only know the names of about a third of the tunes I play.
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by Skyelad
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Well, Nicholas, apart from in the Waily Tail, one can also read similar rantings in the Daily Torygraph - albeit a little more subdued in that particular publication ... .
As for slithering, slithy-tove fashion into ducts in Oxford Street, Im afraid that my caving days are long since over, so you'll need to find another volunteer for that job.
Good luck with the application for "chief con" - though you may find yourself up against some serious opposition! ....
# Posted on April 2nd 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
What a wag/card/jolly japer you are. It's nearly as funny as the new-fangled sport of jesters with made-up names telling other people how to play music in a made-up traditional style which has nothing to do with its roots. Ha ha ha indeed. Ho ho ho I can't stop laughing.
# Posted on April 3rd 2009 by McDermott
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
Oh and they do it on the Internet: the most traditional of media. Now my sides are really splitting . . .
# Posted on April 3rd 2009 by McDermott
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
is your 20-year-old brother using your account?
# Posted on April 3rd 2009 by airport
Re: Sessions in UK not threatened by proposed legislation
?
# Posted on April 3rd 2009 by McDermott