I play flutes, bagpipes and i know read music easily and play, but when you start a stringed instrument, you must make a transcription always. it's very difficult ! That's why the Tabs exist !!!
What did you say it's like someone who tell me, "why sheet music for irish music, just listen and play it after !!!"
So Jeremy, why sheet music for your website ???
I hope anybody have got tabs for irish music ? No, yes ??? Thank your for your (real) help
As the person responsible for submitting around 1,000 tunes tabbed out for mandolin to the mandolincafe, a word of advice ...
Most of these transcriptions will work well for Octave Mandolin or Bouzouki tuned GDAE. However, those tunes with a high b - particularly those which have a big stretch e.g. from f to b and back again - will require a bit of effort on the longer-scaled instrument.
This isn't insurmountable - it may mean your changing your hand position from time to achieve a span which can easily be reached on the mandolin.
Binio, I disagree that you need tab to transfer a tune onto bouzouki.
I've played and taught several different stringed instruments over the years, and so learned to read tab for each of them, but it's not "necessary." I used it only for teaching other people who refused to learn to read sheet music.
If you know where the notes are on your instrument, you can play easily from sheet music. It may take some practice to transfer your music reading ability from pipes or flute over to bouzouki, but once you've done it you'll be as comfortable sight reading on either instrument. (I say this from personal experience, having recently struggled but finally adjusted to sight reading on flute and whistle after decades of sight reading on guitar, mandolin, banjo, and fiddle).
So Jeremy wasn't being flippant when he suggested using sheet music. Remember, he's a bouzouki man himself. And I suspect he favors sheet music for this site because it works just fine--for *every* instrument.
I have taught myself abc quickly and am now teaching myself to read sheet music. However I found tab a great help in the past, hence my willingness to convert tunes into tab for other mandolin/banjo/GDAE zouk players.
I have eased off a bit because I have qualms that it hinders as much as it may help. But it's a great "quick" tool.
Will, why do you need say to me what is the better way for me ? If i want read tab music, it's my choice !
It's like a bouzouki man, who said to me, "don't use the timb on your octave mandolin, it's incorrect "
Or, there is no rules, for this instrument about the timb!
Sometimes, with traditionnal musicians, when i ask some help i'm like someone who want to drink a Guinness, and the waiter said to me. "no" drink Kilkenny!!!
I want a Guinness, you've got it !
Kilkenny are better, don't drink Kilkenny
But, i paiiiiidddd !!
No
Binio, of course you don't have to listen to what I say. I'm just airing my opinion. If you're dead set on tab, then go for it--but you won't find it on this site. Steve's given you some good links. Knock yourself out.
All I'm saying is that lots of people can read sheet music while playing bouzouki and other stringed instruments. It's not as hard as you make it out to be. In the long run, learning a tune from sheet music allows you more freedom to play it the way *you* want to, rather than following someone else's approach to fingering and picking in tab. And you'll find more tunes available in standard notation than in tab. So why limit yourself?
OK. You don't have to listen the advice of other trad musicians but don't be surprised if sometimes you'll get told things you don't want to hear. That's the nature of the game.
Personally, I would agree with Will. If you can already read music, it's just a case of learning where the notes are on your new instrument. This is surely easier than using tab. If you play by ear already, the same principle applies--it should be fairly straightforward once you find out where the notes are.
The above comment isn't a criticism of tablature but, unless you're used to this method, you're probably better sticking to traditional notation.
At the end of the day, someone's physically got to set tunes out in tab and therefore, inevitably, the amount of stuff that's going to be available will be limited.
Do check out the mandolincafe's tab archive, which will help.
But Will and others' advice is genuine. If you stick with tab as the only source of learning tunes, then you will be limiting yourself a) in terms of the variety of material available and b) to the whims and taste of those who convert tunes (from sheet, abc or ear) to tab.
But that's how I learned the majority of tunes I now play - apart from those I picked up by ear - so I won't deny its value as a quick route to tunes.
If you use the search box on the above link and type in crossey, you'll be taken to literally hundreds of Irish tunes in GDAE format (warts, errors and all). Should keep you active for a while!
Binioubraz, if "all advices are welcome" as you say at the end of your first message, then it's a little frustrating when you turn around and tell us that some advice is not welcome.
The dots will provide you with far more opportunities to read transcriptions. The tablature for mandolin and GDAE bouzouki are the same--GDAE tab is GDAE tab, isn't it?--and bouzoukis are rare in comparison with the mandolin, so you're less likely to find good sources of bouzouki-specific tab.
Try a search on Google under "mandolin Irish tablature". You'll get lots of hits, like this one.
I used to learn tunes from tab and eventually got sick to the teeth of transferring from the sheet to tab. Since i got the finger and my new glasses out i read directly from the sheet and find it a lot easier. I agree with Aidan that tab stuff is limited, whereas now i can learn any tune i want without having to get the pen and paper out. Also i was rigidly fixed to the way the tune was in tab, my tutor's convertion from sheet to tab became the only way to play a particular tune, much to my detriment.It's only since i stopped with the tab that i vary the tunes to the way i like.
regards
Also i don't know if it's a coincidence but i find i concentrate on the tempo better when i read from the dots. Maybe this is because i am actually improving and not because i changed from tab..
Tab is useful if you wish to emulate the style of a particular player or copy his/her interpretation of a particular piece of music e.g bass runs/notes, harmony notes, picking patterns etc. This isn't always possible with standard notation which just gives the basics. However, I agree that this can be limiting and the player should ultimately try to develop his own style.
This is specifically geared towards those who play by ear but wish to learn something about music notation. The page is titled: "Learning to Read Music (But Not Enough to Hurt Your Playing)."
Binio, Michael B's suggestion about software to translate ABC to tab is spot on. Try TablEdit (it's probably on one of the links he mentioned). No, I'm not getting a kickback or any other compensation. It's freeware for a limited version, $55 US for the full version. I find it really useful for putting ABC or midi files into standard notation (for our flute players) or any instrument's tablature. So, I can take ABC and put it into DADGAD or GDAE or whatever bizarre tuning I want. It even creates WAV files. I can burn a CD of WAV files from ABC-formatted tunes and take them to work to try to get them into me thick head. Very handy!
I agree that tab is a quicker way to get the tunes into your fingers, if that works for you. It's what I usually do, but I think it's a kind of crutch. Learning the dots will ultimately make you more versatile. And doing it by ear will make you a demi-god!
Here's my sad story. When I started on mandolin I had 2 books: a Bluegrass book with tab & dots and an Irish book with just the dots. I played exclusively from the tab for the first 6 months and managed to learn about 10 tunes. Then I heard "Water From the Well" and decided that I really wanted to play Irish music.
So I gave up on the bluegrass entirely and started on book 2. It forced me to learn how to read music, for which I am grateful. When I started going to sessions last year, it became obvious that no 2 versions of a tune were the same, so I started taping the sessions I go to and forced myself to learn by ear, first with the dots, then without them at all. As my session leader said last week to another mando player asking if he could tape our playing: "Yeah, Greg brought a tape recorder one day and became a parasite for the next 6 months!" Thank goodness I learned how to play some tunes, or I would have been sprayed with Raid by now...
Anyhow, I switched from mando to octave mando and tenor banjo about this time last year and the big difficulty is adjusting for the high "B", which Aidan mentioned above. Now I only use the dots as memory cues to pick up a fading tune and I haven't looked at tab for a year and a half. Learning tunes gets easier with each new one. Not telling you what to do or anything, just offering my story for what it is.
I learnt to read sheetmusic, tab and ABC in that order. If I'm writing a tune down for zouk, I *always* use ABC because it's extremely quick (unless I want to be able to read it quickly since I can still read sheetmusic more quickly than I can read ABC). With ABC you don't have to draw messy lines or use special manuscript paper, and you can represent pretty much anything you can with sheetmusic like complex ornamentation, slurs, key changes and double stops. If I'm writing down chords, I don't use tab anymore. I always write it like 0550, 0230 etc, because that's way quicker than drawing little diagrams of a zouk neck. Trust me, I've used all methods and made a lot of mistakes that have slowed me down. ABC is an excellent invention - whoever invented it deserves a knighthood. BTW if you're playing Octave Mandolin in GDAE tuning, just play it like a mandolin with a big stretch. The only thing tab tells you that ABC and sheetmusic don't is which course to play a note on. In the case of trad music, I don't think there's much to be gained from that since it's a matter of personal taste and style. If you're not learning tunes by ear alone, the 2nd best advice I can give you for trad music is ditch the tab and learn ABC and learn it well, and relate each note to what you see on your fretboard. The easiest way to learn ABC is by example. I learnt the conventions by looking at transcriptions on this site rather than reading through boring lists of rules. If you can already read sheetmusic, then you're almost there anyway. The best advice I can offer is listen to some mandolin players and learn tunes by ear because that'll give you the rhythm which none of the above transcription methods do sufficiently well, or even better, listen to some octave mandolin players. You can also pepper your own style with elements of flute and pipers that you like, or fiddlers, or even banjo players Try the cittern list and buy their Citterns On Ice CDs if you haven't got them already.
I think, there is not enough tunes for Bouzouki/ Octave Mandolin and advice about this wonderful instrument. Cittern list is limited.
You've got a plenty website on guitar, but few on CBOM
I hope the future change this.
There are thousands of tunes playable on these instrumens. All you have to do is follow the advice given you here and learn to read music or ABC. Buy a program that will convert sheet music to tab if you have to. I have an old Encore program that will do it and I'm sure programs have improved since I bought that. You don't need any more web sites and you don't need people to feed you tablum.
Hi biniou,
I play mandolin at a home session and when i bring a new tune i often learn it by ear and write it for the rest using Power Tab Editor freeware . Since you can only write tab (and the software adds the notes above) i use two octaves below mandolin tuning (4 strings , GDAE) so the other members can read the above standard notation.
If you download PTE (search in google) i'll be happy to send you tunes i wrote up till now (not too many...).
Bouzouki/ Octave mandolin players in GDAE
Bouzouki/ Octave mandolin players in GDAE
Hi,
i'm looking for somes tunes easy to play on a short scale bouzouki tune in GDAE, but in lead instrument not for rythm.
Where is it possible to find some tab like for the mandolin but for his big brother.
All advices are welcome
Thanks
# Posted on September 9th 2003 by Mandolman
Re: Bouzouki/ Octave mandolin players in GDAE
Why not just learn to read sheetmusic? It would make things a lot easier in the long run.
# Posted on September 9th 2003 by Jeremy
Re: Bouzouki/ Octave mandolin players in GDAE
I understand your think : why is he so bad?
I play flutes, bagpipes and i know read music easily and play, but when you start a stringed instrument, you must make a transcription always. it's very difficult ! That's why the Tabs exist !!!
What did you say it's like someone who tell me, "why sheet music for irish music, just listen and play it after !!!"
So Jeremy, why sheet music for your website ???
I hope anybody have got tabs for irish music ? No, yes ??? Thank your for your (real) help
# Posted on September 9th 2003 by Mandolman
Re: Bouzouki/ Octave mandolin players in GDAE
You can look at this place:
http://www.alltabs.com/tenor_tablature_list.html
The mandolin cafe has mandolin tabs. As long as you're in GDAE you can use them.
http://www.mandolincafe.com/
You can also search for Jean Banwarth's web site. He probably has a few tabs for GDAE.
Steve
# Posted on September 9th 2003 by SteveKendall
Mandolincafe tabs
As the person responsible for submitting around 1,000 tunes tabbed out for mandolin to the mandolincafe, a word of advice ...
Most of these transcriptions will work well for Octave Mandolin or Bouzouki tuned GDAE. However, those tunes with a high b - particularly those which have a big stretch e.g. from f to b and back again - will require a bit of effort on the longer-scaled instrument.
This isn't insurmountable - it may mean your changing your hand position from time to achieve a span which can easily be reached on the mandolin.
# Posted on September 9th 2003 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Bouzouki/ Octave mandolin players in GDAE
Binio, I disagree that you need tab to transfer a tune onto bouzouki.
I've played and taught several different stringed instruments over the years, and so learned to read tab for each of them, but it's not "necessary." I used it only for teaching other people who refused to learn to read sheet music.
If you know where the notes are on your instrument, you can play easily from sheet music. It may take some practice to transfer your music reading ability from pipes or flute over to bouzouki, but once you've done it you'll be as comfortable sight reading on either instrument. (I say this from personal experience, having recently struggled but finally adjusted to sight reading on flute and whistle after decades of sight reading on guitar, mandolin, banjo, and fiddle).
So Jeremy wasn't being flippant when he suggested using sheet music. Remember, he's a bouzouki man himself. And I suspect he favors sheet music for this site because it works just fine--for *every* instrument.
# Posted on September 9th 2003 by Will Harmon
Tab v sheet
Jeremy and Will make good points.
I have taught myself abc quickly and am now teaching myself to read sheet music. However I found tab a great help in the past, hence my willingness to convert tunes into tab for other mandolin/banjo/GDAE zouk players.
I have eased off a bit because I have qualms that it hinders as much as it may help. But it's a great "quick" tool.
# Posted on September 9th 2003 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Bouzouki/ Octave mandolin players in GDAE
Thank you Steve and Kendall !!!
Will, why do you need say to me what is the better way for me ? If i want read tab music, it's my choice !
It's like a bouzouki man, who said to me, "don't use the timb on your octave mandolin, it's incorrect "
Or, there is no rules, for this instrument about the timb!
Sometimes, with traditionnal musicians, when i ask some help i'm like someone who want to drink a Guinness, and the waiter said to me. "no" drink Kilkenny!!!
I want a Guinness, you've got it !
Kilkenny are better, don't drink Kilkenny
But, i paiiiiidddd !!
No
# Posted on September 9th 2003 by Mandolman
Re: Bouzouki/ Octave mandolin players in GDAE
Binio, of course you don't have to listen to what I say. I'm just airing my opinion. If you're dead set on tab, then go for it--but you won't find it on this site. Steve's given you some good links. Knock yourself out.
All I'm saying is that lots of people can read sheet music while playing bouzouki and other stringed instruments. It's not as hard as you make it out to be. In the long run, learning a tune from sheet music allows you more freedom to play it the way *you* want to, rather than following someone else's approach to fingering and picking in tab. And you'll find more tunes available in standard notation than in tab. So why limit yourself?
# Posted on September 9th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: Bouzouki/ Octave mandolin players in GDAE
OK. You don't have to listen the advice of other trad musicians but don't be surprised if sometimes you'll get told things you don't want to hear. That's the nature of the game.
Personally, I would agree with Will. If you can already read music, it's just a case of learning where the notes are on your new instrument. This is surely easier than using tab. If you play by ear already, the same principle applies--it should be fairly straightforward once you find out where the notes are.
The above comment isn't a criticism of tablature but, unless you're used to this method, you're probably better sticking to traditional notation.
John
# Posted on September 9th 2003 by Johnny Jay
Sorry Will. We must have posted at the same time.
John
# Posted on September 9th 2003 by Johnny Jay
Availability
Binioubraz ...
At the end of the day, someone's physically got to set tunes out in tab and therefore, inevitably, the amount of stuff that's going to be available will be limited.
Do check out the mandolincafe's tab archive, which will help.
http://www.mandolincafe.com/tabarc.html
But Will and others' advice is genuine. If you stick with tab as the only source of learning tunes, then you will be limiting yourself a) in terms of the variety of material available and b) to the whims and taste of those who convert tunes (from sheet, abc or ear) to tab.
But that's how I learned the majority of tunes I now play - apart from those I picked up by ear - so I won't deny its value as a quick route to tunes.
If you use the search box on the above link and type in crossey, you'll be taken to literally hundreds of Irish tunes in GDAE format (warts, errors and all). Should keep you active for a while!
# Posted on September 9th 2003 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Bouzouki/ Octave mandolin players in GDAE
Binioubraz, if "all advices are welcome" as you say at the end of your first message, then it's a little frustrating when you turn around and tell us that some advice is not welcome.
The dots will provide you with far more opportunities to read transcriptions. The tablature for mandolin and GDAE bouzouki are the same--GDAE tab is GDAE tab, isn't it?--and bouzoukis are rare in comparison with the mandolin, so you're less likely to find good sources of bouzouki-specific tab.
Try a search on Google under "mandolin Irish tablature". You'll get lots of hits, like this one.
http://users.argonet.co.uk/users/gatherer/tunes.html
If you look at
http://www.gre.ac.uk/~c.walshaw/abc/#software
you're likely to find some tools that will convert ABC format files to tablature, which might make you happiest of all.
---Michael B.
# Posted on September 9th 2003 by MichaelBolton
Re: Bouzouki/ Octave mandolin players in GDAE
I used to learn tunes from tab and eventually got sick to the teeth of transferring from the sheet to tab. Since i got the finger and my new glasses out i read directly from the sheet and find it a lot easier. I agree with Aidan that tab stuff is limited, whereas now i can learn any tune i want without having to get the pen and paper out. Also i was rigidly fixed to the way the tune was in tab, my tutor's convertion from sheet to tab became the only way to play a particular tune, much to my detriment.It's only since i stopped with the tab that i vary the tunes to the way i like.
regards
# Posted on September 9th 2003 by Celtic1234
Re: Bouzouki/ Octave mandolin players in GDAE
Also i don't know if it's a coincidence but i find i concentrate on the tempo better when i read from the dots. Maybe this is because i am actually improving and not because i changed from tab..
# Posted on September 9th 2003 by Celtic1234
Re: Bouzouki/ Octave mandolin players in GDAE
Tab is useful if you wish to emulate the style of a particular player or copy his/her interpretation of a particular piece of music e.g bass runs/notes, harmony notes, picking patterns etc. This isn't always possible with standard notation which just gives the basics. However, I agree that this can be limiting and the player should ultimately try to develop his own style.
John
# Posted on September 9th 2003 by Johnny Jay
Re: Bouzouki/ Octave mandolin players in GDAE
Biniou,
you should know this site:
http://perso.club-internet.fr/banwarth/
for all instruments except when i play finger picking on the guitar , i think it's easier to read music..So you can play anything by yourself.
Paul
# Posted on September 9th 2003 by paul95
Re: Bouzouki/ Octave mandolin players in GDAE
For anyone interested in a good tutorial for reading standard music notation, check out
http://members.aol.com/kitchieboy/tutor/tutor1.html
This is specifically geared towards those who play by ear but wish to learn something about music notation. The page is titled: "Learning to Read Music (But Not Enough to Hurt Your Playing)."
Thanks,
Jim L
# Posted on September 9th 2003 by Jiml
Re: Bouzouki/ Octave mandolin players in GDAE
Binio, Michael B's suggestion about software to translate ABC to tab is spot on. Try TablEdit (it's probably on one of the links he mentioned). No, I'm not getting a kickback or any other compensation. It's freeware for a limited version, $55 US for the full version. I find it really useful for putting ABC or midi files into standard notation (for our flute players) or any instrument's tablature. So, I can take ABC and put it into DADGAD or GDAE or whatever bizarre tuning I want. It even creates WAV files. I can burn a CD of WAV files from ABC-formatted tunes and take them to work to try to get them into me thick head. Very handy!
I agree that tab is a quicker way to get the tunes into your fingers, if that works for you. It's what I usually do, but I think it's a kind of crutch. Learning the dots will ultimately make you more versatile. And doing it by ear will make you a demi-god!
--Bob
# Posted on September 9th 2003 by highdesertbob
Re: Bouzouki/ Octave mandolin players in GDAE
Hi Binio,
Here's my sad story. When I started on mandolin I had 2 books: a Bluegrass book with tab & dots and an Irish book with just the dots. I played exclusively from the tab for the first 6 months and managed to learn about 10 tunes. Then I heard "Water From the Well" and decided that I really wanted to play Irish music.
So I gave up on the bluegrass entirely and started on book 2. It forced me to learn how to read music, for which I am grateful. When I started going to sessions last year, it became obvious that no 2 versions of a tune were the same, so I started taping the sessions I go to and forced myself to learn by ear, first with the dots, then without them at all. As my session leader said last week to another mando player asking if he could tape our playing: "Yeah, Greg brought a tape recorder one day and became a parasite for the next 6 months!" Thank goodness I learned how to play some tunes, or I would have been sprayed with Raid by now...
Anyhow, I switched from mando to octave mando and tenor banjo about this time last year and the big difficulty is adjusting for the high "B", which Aidan mentioned above. Now I only use the dots as memory cues to pick up a fading tune and I haven't looked at tab for a year and a half. Learning tunes gets easier with each new one. Not telling you what to do or anything, just offering my story for what it is.
Greg
# Posted on September 9th 2003 by octogreg
Re: Bouzouki/ Octave mandolin players in GDAE
I learnt to read sheetmusic, tab and ABC in that order. If I'm writing a tune down for zouk, I *always* use ABC because it's extremely quick (unless I want to be able to read it quickly since I can still read sheetmusic more quickly than I can read ABC). With ABC you don't have to draw messy lines or use special manuscript paper, and you can represent pretty much anything you can with sheetmusic like complex ornamentation, slurs, key changes and double stops. If I'm writing down chords, I don't use tab anymore. I always write it like 0550, 0230 etc, because that's way quicker than drawing little diagrams of a zouk neck. Trust me, I've used all methods and made a lot of mistakes that have slowed me down. ABC is an excellent invention - whoever invented it deserves a knighthood. BTW if you're playing Octave Mandolin in GDAE tuning, just play it like a mandolin with a big stretch. The only thing tab tells you that ABC and sheetmusic don't is which course to play a note on. In the case of trad music, I don't think there's much to be gained from that since it's a matter of personal taste and style. If you're not learning tunes by ear alone, the 2nd best advice I can give you for trad music is ditch the tab and learn ABC and learn it well, and relate each note to what you see on your fretboard. The easiest way to learn ABC is by example. I learnt the conventions by looking at transcriptions on this site rather than reading through boring lists of rules. If you can already read sheetmusic, then you're almost there anyway. The best advice I can offer is listen to some mandolin players and learn tunes by ear because that'll give you the rhythm which none of the above transcription methods do sufficiently well, or even better, listen to some octave mandolin players. You can also pepper your own style with elements of flute and pipers that you like, or fiddlers, or even banjo players
Try the cittern list and buy their Citterns On Ice CDs if you haven't got them already.
# Posted on September 9th 2003 by Dr. Dow
Re: Bouzouki/ Octave mandolin players in GDAE
Thank you all, for your advices.
I think, there is not enough tunes for Bouzouki/ Octave Mandolin and advice about this wonderful instrument. Cittern list is limited.
You've got a plenty website on guitar, but few on CBOM
I hope the future change this.
# Posted on September 9th 2003 by Mandolman
Re: Bouzouki/ Octave mandolin players in GDAE
There are thousands of tunes playable on these instrumens. All you have to do is follow the advice given you here and learn to read music or ABC. Buy a program that will convert sheet music to tab if you have to. I have an old Encore program that will do it and I'm sure programs have improved since I bought that. You don't need any more web sites and you don't need people to feed you tablum.
Steve
# Posted on September 9th 2003 by SteveKendall
Re: Bouzouki/ Octave mandolin players in GDAE
Hi biniou,
I play mandolin at a home session and when i bring a new tune i often learn it by ear and write it for the rest using Power Tab Editor freeware . Since you can only write tab (and the software adds the notes above) i use two octaves below mandolin tuning (4 strings , GDAE) so the other members can read the above standard notation.
If you download PTE (search in google) i'll be happy to send you tunes i wrote up till now (not too many...).
Amir
# Posted on September 10th 2003 by azo