Hello, I want to buy a flute, but could do with a bit of advice. I dont know whether I should get a wooden one or a polymer one. I like a nice piece of wood, i think it would look and probably sound better. but the problem is I travel a lot and I keep reading that wooden flutes are very sensitive to changes in climate. Is this just something that polymer flute makers say?
I have heard this too about all wooden instruments, not just flutes.
Depends what type of wood it is, and how well you look after it. If you keep it well oiled and thoroughly swab it out after each use as Guernsey Pete already said, it should be fine. It also can depend on what type of wood you get, I would think. I don't really know that much about the hardness and softness of different woods; my flute's African blackwood and the only problem I've ever had with it regarding climate and temperature is making sure it's in tune if I've just been outside with it or something (but that comes with any flute!). I second jtrout's suggestion of checking out the Chiff and Fipple site.
IMO, if you want a silver flute, make sure it is made out of silver and not nickel. It makes a difference. If you want a wooden flute, make sure it is made out of wood. It makes a difference.
If you buy a wooden flute, make sure it has eight keys. It makes a difference.
If you don't have the money to buy a proper flute, wait until you do. Plan to spend at least $1,000. If you can do better, good for you.
Playing flute is a great joy, something that should be embarked upon with gusto. Don't start a vast enterprise with a half-vast instrument. Trust me.
Trust you, Ailin? Why? What if your advice contradicts how most Irish flute players start out?
To play most Irish trad music, there's little need for any keys, let alone all 8 of them. And keyless flutes are priced much lower than keyed flutes.
Sure, buy a good flute, not junk. Go with a well-respected maker. If you're just starting out, the Casey Burns folk flute is a good lower-priced option. If you start with a decent flute--even a lower priced one--you'll get your money back when it's time to upgrade (assuming you fall in love with fluting).
Murad, a well-made wooden flute is easy to care for. The main thing is to protect it from sudden or drastic humidity changes. Swabbing after playing, and oiling, helps, as does storing the flute in a humidity controlled case when not in use. That's about it.
Humidity here in Montana routinely swings from 98% to single digits and back, summer and winter. My blackwood Hammy flute does just fine.
That said, the polymer flutes such as those by Paddy Ward and John Forbes sound great and require no care at all. Expect to pay about the same for a good Delrin or blackwood flute--the labor and skill is the same or even more intensive for plastic.
At $85 USD, the pvc flutes by Doug Tipple are a viable option if you're not sure you'll stick with this. Easy to play, in tune, and surprisingly rich tone. And if you go on to a top-notch flute, the Tipple makes a great "rough-travel" instrument for backpacking and river trips.
Erm, my skepticism for Ailin's advice sounds harsher than I meant it. Just that "trust me" is often a red flag. And I don't understand what silver flute has to do with this discussion at all....
Just to emphasize what's been said about the ease of care of a delrin flute- I wrote to the maker of my delrin to ask about its care and he told me just to run it through the dishwasher once a month. (!)
You do have to be careful with wooden flutes, if you drop it it could break or crack not visible to the eye, also you have to be careful not to leave in cold car one minute and then beside radiator! like I did! over time it did crack, but was repaired by Martin Doyle great man, my cousin plays a polymer flute and I do feel envious the way he throws it around the place! that said I always think wooden sounds better,even albums like wooden flute obsession, I think we would be waiting a long time for polymer flute obsession! haha, yes yes yes you have to take a lot of care of wooden flutes
Keyless flute - good option, much cheaper than a keyed one, and acoustically the same (- if not better due to the smoother bore!). A keyless is also simpler to maintain. The keys are not needed for most session tunes. Naturally, when you do need them, then you have a problem, but better to buy a better keyless flute than a bad keyed one within your budget. (If your budget allows, then a good keyed flute is an option, but even if you have the money, I would probably not plan on spending it all at once until you have a bit more of an idea what sort of flute you like to play. That kind of mandates buying a different flute first and learning to play on it.)
Casey Burns folk flute - I have one as my "campfire" flute. I can recommend it unreservedly for the money. The only lack is a tuning slide, but I can get the flute in tune at 440 Hz with the tenon pulled out just over a quarter of an inch - so, no problem for me. I have the older two piece Mopane version. I think his standard version with a tuning slide is probably also a relatively good deal, but I don't have one.
Skip Healy's keyless flutes seem to have got cheaper recently, but I don't know how much of a good idea they'd be for a beginner.
Check out M&E flutes (Michael and Evelyn Cronnolly) - yes, you CAN get a decent (actually MORE than decent) blackwood keyed flute for less than $1000. Mine has become my "go to" flute...
hello again. I dont really care about having keys on the flute, Ive played whistle thus far and the limited range doesnt bother me. when i said 'i travel a lot' i should probably have said, I sleep in a tent a lot and pretty much live out of a rucksack the rest of the time, it was the effects that might have on the flute i was worried about. its never damaged my guitar, but i keep hearing tales of cracked flutes and whatnot. Im in europe, and for my price range am thinking of going with either a dixon 3 piece or a phil bleazey keyless blackwood. thanks for your replies.
Let me concede two points: "Trust me" can indeed be a red flag, so I withdraw it. An eight-key for $1,000 would indeed be a bargain. Perhaps I wrote too fast. The impression I would like to leave is that there are some things for which going the extrra mile is worth it. I started ITM on a keyless flute, but I had very little info at the time (early 80s). I quickly moved up to an eight-key, and am glad I did. I read so many posts asking how to get the most for the least, and it frankly irks me because skimping on your instrument just seems a bad idea to me. I tried, perhaps unsuccessfully, to make the comparison to buying a metal flute because there is just no comparison between a nickel and a silver flute, even though you can save money by buying a nickel flute with a silver plating or just plain nickel.
You can't have the best of everything, but you can have the best of some things. Never at no time, no matter how little I was earning, would I have ever considered a polymer flute. That's just my opinion, and opinions are what were being sought. It just seems to me that some (not necessarily in this thread) take the prospect of buying a flute too lightly.
One final note: I know as well as anybody that you can play most ITM without keys, but I still love having the keys and I use them all at one time or another.
The main function od the flute keys in Irish traditional music is to keep the flute from rolling down from the pub's table while the player takes a break....
I have a fully keyed old flute and I really need only the g# in one polka so far.
I would recommend for budget reasons to buy a flute with no keys froma very good maker and not one with keys of minor quality.
Murad, I too have lived out of a rucksack for years at a time, so I can guess at the conditions your flute would endure. You'll find a delrin flute far less trouble and worry in your circumstances. The Dixon conical bore three piece is playable, but it's not really a sessionable flute (I've owned and played one--it was part of an instrument lending library for our local session).
Both M&E and Seery Delrin flutes are good options and shouldn't be too hard to come by in Europe (both are made in Ireland). Even better delrin flutes are made by John Forbes, Dave Copley, and Paddy Ward, all currently in the US. For the money, the Forbes is a top notch flute, loud, in tune, tunable, and with a nice bit of honk like any good wooden flute. Less than $500 USD I think. Worth the extra cost in shipping.
Ailin, I agree with your philosophy about buying the best instrument you can. But given Murad's lifestyle, I don't think a Rudall and Rose would be an ideal flute for him.
Besides, if you start with a decent flute, you can always get your money (or better) out of it when you upgrade.
My partner and I play a lot of camps and festivals, and have an instrument stall too, without any problems (except with drums). I think its the humidity that can be the issue, with real dryness being the main problem. You probably won't encounter too many genuinely sudden changes in the direction of dryness in Britain, usually its the other way round! Keep it in a good case and as long as you don't leave it out in the rain I'm sure you'll be fine.
Phils flutes and whistles are really nice. I have one of his medieval recorders and its great. His flutes and whistles are very characterful and its worth playing through a few to get one you like if thats possible, rather than buy one at a distance as I found they vary quite a bit, although they are all well made and play well.
If you backpack a lot though its worth having a plastic flute for lightness, and they are very cheap.
I agree with Will, the Forbes Delrin is brilliant. It sounds as good as most wood flutes but with no maintenance at all. It can be played by a campfire, or in the rain. Very useful (I'm not kidding) - I've done both with it.
Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
Hello, I want to buy a flute, but could do with a bit of advice. I dont know whether I should get a wooden one or a polymer one. I like a nice piece of wood, i think it would look and probably sound better. but the problem is I travel a lot and I keep reading that wooden flutes are very sensitive to changes in climate. Is this just something that polymer flute makers say?
# Posted on March 19th 2009 by Murad Reis
Re: Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
I would refer you to the Chiff and Fipple Flute Forum. Lots of discussion of this topic there.
# Posted on March 19th 2009 by jtrout
Re: Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
Its here:
http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewforum.php?f=2
# Posted on March 19th 2009 by David50
Re: Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
Just remember to swab it out after playing.
# Posted on March 19th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
I have heard this too about all wooden instruments, not just flutes.
Depends what type of wood it is, and how well you look after it. If you keep it well oiled and thoroughly swab it out after each use as Guernsey Pete already said, it should be fine. It also can depend on what type of wood you get, I would think. I don't really know that much about the hardness and softness of different woods; my flute's African blackwood and the only problem I've ever had with it regarding climate and temperature is making sure it's in tune if I've just been outside with it or something (but that comes with any flute!). I second jtrout's suggestion of checking out the Chiff and Fipple site.
# Posted on March 19th 2009 by Glass of Beer
Re: Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
IMO, if you want a silver flute, make sure it is made out of silver and not nickel. It makes a difference. If you want a wooden flute, make sure it is made out of wood. It makes a difference.
If you buy a wooden flute, make sure it has eight keys. It makes a difference.
If you don't have the money to buy a proper flute, wait until you do. Plan to spend at least $1,000. If you can do better, good for you.
Playing flute is a great joy, something that should be embarked upon with gusto. Don't start a vast enterprise with a half-vast instrument. Trust me.
# Posted on March 19th 2009 by Ailin
Re: Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
Trust you, Ailin? Why? What if your advice contradicts how most Irish flute players start out?
To play most Irish trad music, there's little need for any keys, let alone all 8 of them. And keyless flutes are priced much lower than keyed flutes.
Sure, buy a good flute, not junk. Go with a well-respected maker. If you're just starting out, the Casey Burns folk flute is a good lower-priced option. If you start with a decent flute--even a lower priced one--you'll get your money back when it's time to upgrade (assuming you fall in love with fluting).
Murad, a well-made wooden flute is easy to care for. The main thing is to protect it from sudden or drastic humidity changes. Swabbing after playing, and oiling, helps, as does storing the flute in a humidity controlled case when not in use. That's about it.
Humidity here in Montana routinely swings from 98% to single digits and back, summer and winter. My blackwood Hammy flute does just fine.
That said, the polymer flutes such as those by Paddy Ward and John Forbes sound great and require no care at all. Expect to pay about the same for a good Delrin or blackwood flute--the labor and skill is the same or even more intensive for plastic.
At $85 USD, the pvc flutes by Doug Tipple are a viable option if you're not sure you'll stick with this. Easy to play, in tune, and surprisingly rich tone. And if you go on to a top-notch flute, the Tipple makes a great "rough-travel" instrument for backpacking and river trips.
For good prices on excellent flutes, check out Doc Jones' online shop: http://www.irishflutestore.com.
# Posted on March 19th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
Erm, my skepticism for Ailin's advice sounds harsher than I meant it. Just that "trust me" is often a red flag. And I don't understand what silver flute has to do with this discussion at all....
# Posted on March 19th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
Just to emphasize what's been said about the ease of care of a delrin flute- I wrote to the maker of my delrin to ask about its care and he told me just to run it through the dishwasher once a month. (!)
# Posted on March 19th 2009 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
Sure, Delrin is easy to care for--simply ignore it. I shut my Desi Seery delrin flute in a car door and it didn't leave a mark.
It's just that wood isn't a big deal to care for either.
# Posted on March 19th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
I think Terry McGee has tested the limits of wooden flutes. (Baking flutes in an oven for various times. It seems as long as you swab out a wooden flute and oil it occasionally you should be OK.
Check Terry's website out...
http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/FluteMyths.htm
or direct:
http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/temps.html
Great Info.
# Posted on March 20th 2009 by madfluter
Re: Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
You do have to be careful with wooden flutes, if you drop it it could break or crack not visible to the eye, also you have to be careful not to leave in cold car one minute and then beside radiator! like I did! over time it did crack, but was repaired by Martin Doyle great man, my cousin plays a polymer flute and I do feel envious the way he throws it around the place! that said I always think wooden sounds better,even albums like wooden flute obsession, I think we would be waiting a long time for polymer flute obsession! haha, yes yes yes you have to take a lot of care of wooden flutes
# Posted on March 20th 2009 by lilyot
Re: Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
An 8-key flute for $1000?
# Posted on March 20th 2009 by Hup
Re: Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
A good 8 key flute for $1000 - not realistic...
Wood or Delrin both ok. I like wood.
Keyless flute - good option, much cheaper than a keyed one, and acoustically the same (- if not better due to the smoother bore!). A keyless is also simpler to maintain. The keys are not needed for most session tunes. Naturally, when you do need them, then you have a problem, but better to buy a better keyless flute than a bad keyed one within your budget. (If your budget allows, then a good keyed flute is an option, but even if you have the money, I would probably not plan on spending it all at once until you have a bit more of an idea what sort of flute you like to play. That kind of mandates buying a different flute first and learning to play on it.)
Casey Burns folk flute - I have one as my "campfire" flute. I can recommend it unreservedly for the money. The only lack is a tuning slide, but I can get the flute in tune at 440 Hz with the tenon pulled out just over a quarter of an inch - so, no problem for me. I have the older two piece Mopane version. I think his standard version with a tuning slide is probably also a relatively good deal, but I don't have one.
Skip Healy's keyless flutes seem to have got cheaper recently, but I don't know how much of a good idea they'd be for a beginner.
# Posted on March 20th 2009 by Crackpot
Re: Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
Check out M&E flutes (Michael and Evelyn Cronnolly) - yes, you CAN get a decent (actually MORE than decent) blackwood keyed flute for less than $1000. Mine has become my "go to" flute...
Pat
# Posted on March 20th 2009 by plunk111
Re: Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
hello again. I dont really care about having keys on the flute, Ive played whistle thus far and the limited range doesnt bother me. when i said 'i travel a lot' i should probably have said, I sleep in a tent a lot and pretty much live out of a rucksack the rest of the time, it was the effects that might have on the flute i was worried about. its never damaged my guitar, but i keep hearing tales of cracked flutes and whatnot. Im in europe, and for my price range am thinking of going with either a dixon 3 piece or a phil bleazey keyless blackwood. thanks for your replies.
# Posted on March 20th 2009 by Murad Reis
Re: Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
Let me concede two points: "Trust me" can indeed be a red flag, so I withdraw it. An eight-key for $1,000 would indeed be a bargain. Perhaps I wrote too fast. The impression I would like to leave is that there are some things for which going the extrra mile is worth it. I started ITM on a keyless flute, but I had very little info at the time (early 80s). I quickly moved up to an eight-key, and am glad I did. I read so many posts asking how to get the most for the least, and it frankly irks me because skimping on your instrument just seems a bad idea to me. I tried, perhaps unsuccessfully, to make the comparison to buying a metal flute because there is just no comparison between a nickel and a silver flute, even though you can save money by buying a nickel flute with a silver plating or just plain nickel.
You can't have the best of everything, but you can have the best of some things. Never at no time, no matter how little I was earning, would I have ever considered a polymer flute. That's just my opinion, and opinions are what were being sought. It just seems to me that some (not necessarily in this thread) take the prospect of buying a flute too lightly.
One final note: I know as well as anybody that you can play most ITM without keys, but I still love having the keys and I use them all at one time or another.
# Posted on March 20th 2009 by Ailin
Re: Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
The main function od the flute keys in Irish traditional music is to keep the flute from rolling down from the pub's table while the player takes a break....
I have a fully keyed old flute and I really need only the g# in one polka so far.
I would recommend for budget reasons to buy a flute with no keys froma very good maker and not one with keys of minor quality.
# Posted on March 20th 2009 by swisspiper
Re: Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
Murad, I too have lived out of a rucksack for years at a time, so I can guess at the conditions your flute would endure. You'll find a delrin flute far less trouble and worry in your circumstances. The Dixon conical bore three piece is playable, but it's not really a sessionable flute (I've owned and played one--it was part of an instrument lending library for our local session).
Both M&E and Seery Delrin flutes are good options and shouldn't be too hard to come by in Europe (both are made in Ireland). Even better delrin flutes are made by John Forbes, Dave Copley, and Paddy Ward, all currently in the US. For the money, the Forbes is a top notch flute, loud, in tune, tunable, and with a nice bit of honk like any good wooden flute. Less than $500 USD I think. Worth the extra cost in shipping.
# Posted on March 21st 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
Ailin, I agree with your philosophy about buying the best instrument you can. But given Murad's lifestyle, I don't think a Rudall and Rose would be an ideal flute for him.
Besides, if you start with a decent flute, you can always get your money (or better) out of it when you upgrade.
# Posted on March 21st 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
thanks for the leads will. im going to look into all those names.
# Posted on March 21st 2009 by Murad Reis
Re: Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
My partner and I play a lot of camps and festivals, and have an instrument stall too, without any problems (except with drums). I think its the humidity that can be the issue, with real dryness being the main problem. You probably won't encounter too many genuinely sudden changes in the direction of dryness in Britain, usually its the other way round! Keep it in a good case and as long as you don't leave it out in the rain I'm sure you'll be fine.
Phils flutes and whistles are really nice. I have one of his medieval recorders and its great. His flutes and whistles are very characterful and its worth playing through a few to get one you like if thats possible, rather than buy one at a distance as I found they vary quite a bit, although they are all well made and play well.
If you backpack a lot though its worth having a plastic flute for lightness, and they are very cheap.
# Posted on March 21st 2009 by TinWhistleSamurai
Re: Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
One other point, a keyless flute will be much more capable of surviving the rucksack lisfestyle than a keyed one.
# Posted on March 21st 2009 by Crackpot
Re: Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
Plashtick..Shmastick..Buy a Piano
# Posted on March 22nd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Wooden flutes, how fragile are they?
Yeah, I can just imagine a piano in a rucksack.
I agree with Will, the Forbes Delrin is brilliant. It sounds as good as most wood flutes but with no maintenance at all. It can be played by a campfire, or in the rain. Very useful (I'm not kidding) - I've done both with it.
# Posted on March 22nd 2009 by Bredna