tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
it seems there are no tunes in the key of C. should a prevalence of the keys of D, G, A & others be considered . . . accidental?
are the keys of G, D, A & E in celtic music related violin string tuning of G-D-A-E?
as players of bouzouki, irish tenor banjo, 'cello and viola -- tuned C-G-D-A -- blend with other session musicians, should we expect to hear traditional tunes set in the key of C as well?
an online search for "canon in D" leads to a surprising number of returns for music titled "canon in C." hearing the music, it is as lovely and enchanting as the originial -- affronts to possessors of perfect pitch notwithstanding -- and in its current role as motion picture love theme, introduces a new generation to a beloved standard.
which brings me again to my original thought: can we experience traditional irish music be played in a key that is simpler, from the perspective of a beginner, and simpler, too, from the perspective a musician who crosses over on an instrument keyed in C?
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
Most bouzoukis are tuned GDA and either D or E, so the "easy keys are G and D. Most banjo players use GDAE, the obvious exception being Gerry O'Connor(CGDA). Here in Melbourne I regularly play with B/C accordeon players and we play a number of C tunes. The Old Road to Garry,The Steeplechase, Graf Spee,Hole In The Hedge, and the 2 part Geese In The Bog. Also Brendan Mulhaire recorded a lovely set of C reels some years ago,from memory they were named as A Long Way From Home and Reevey's.
There's also 2 C Reels on this fabulous clip: http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/comhaltaslive_280_1_darren_mcgee_and_rosie_ferguson/
The Steeplechase(C)/Humors of Westport(F)/Roaring Mary(C)
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
Michael's right.
There is no great mystery here, conventionally flutes whistles & pipes are in D. Even when their bottom note isn't actually D it is considered as "D". The common keys in irish music are those most accessible to the simple system flute, tin whistle & pipes.
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
Llig's right. Try playing a C tune on a D keyless flute - quite a ride.
However, the tunings are just indicators for the "standard" set of instruments that help people to play together - if you go to a Eb session (like you'd find around Limerick sometimes) you'll find that people do not struggle to remember all the tunes written in Eb, or transpose on the fly using awkward positions on the D instruments - they just play D tunes on Eb-tuned instruments.
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
ramblingpitchfork--tin whistles were not originally made in D. the original tin whistles were in C, and many used to play in C. also, concertinas and button accordions were in C, pipes were often in flat keys, and D was not always the norm. it depended on the region, and what instruments were played.
my grandmother's cousin was very surprised to see that i played the concertina in more than one row at a time, because her mother would play tunes in the key of C in the C row, and the key of G in the Grow. she never played in the key of D.
D is a very easy key on the fiddle, and flutes are designed around the key of D. keyed flutes are technically in the key of C, but this is deceptive... they are based on baroque flutes which are in the key of D, but they lengthened them, keeping the basic scale the same. so, keyed flutes are in D with an extension, not in the key of C.
so, many tunes that today are in played in D were traditionally played in C by those playing the whistle or box of some sort, and of course pipers played in whatever key their instrument was in, which was often C, C# and even B. some, like noel hill, still play very old tunes like the concertina reel in C, because that is how they learned the tunes, even though by their time everyone was playing in D and G. i myself play laird o'beirnes in Bb because that is how tommy peoples played it, and i have trouble playing it A.
also, i believe if you look at older compilations, you will find tunes in more varied keys, including a lot of tunes in C and F.
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
I had assumed it was to do with the average size of peoples' hands. That baroque flutes were in D (a slightly lower one than now) because that was where the 'market' was. A natural 'unit' that was gravitated to because it suited people. Like the pint for beer.
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
I love hearing tunes in C and they are a joy to accompany on the guitar. If I capo on 3rd and play in A the guitar just comes to life. You get lots of C tunes in one of the Irish sessions in Glasgow (largely because of one of the box players!).
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
I've mentioned this before, but it's relevant here. I think often misleading to talk about specific keys, modes, or even specific notes. The music was not written by people who were aware of such musical theory. But what they were aware of, and had a marvellous ability in, was intervals.
For example, he easiest intervals available to them on a simple system flute were, from a bottom note going up: tone, tone, semitone, tone, tone, semitone, semitone, semitone, tone, tone, semitone (this is the octave above the bottom), tone, tone, semitone, tone, tone.
On a D flute these notes are D, E, F#, G, A, B, C, C#, d, e, f#, g, a, b,
And it's no coincidence that these are the notes that fall easiest under the fingers on a fiddle. From the open D string to the pinky on the e string.
So what happened was, the vast majority of tunes were written using only these intervals. And the character of the tunes comes from where you place your tonal centre within this narrow range. For example, a tune that has the tonal centre on the 1st note on the list (we'll call it a D, but as mentioned above, it could equally be an Eb or a C etc) has a tonal range of an octave and a 6th Which is a very different character to one with its centre on the 4th note on the list (we'll call that a G, but on an Eb flute it would be a G# and on a C flute it would be an Fnat). This tune has a range from the 4th below the root, one octave, and up to a 3rd above the octave.
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
I thought baroque flutes were actually in Eb, but a rather low-pitched Eb, which is why you can pull out the tuning slide a little and you're in the modern day D ?
There is a whole lecture or lesson just in the history of pitch.
And of course, a lot of single-row melodians are in C as well.....
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
I reckon that it's down to the fiddle myself. Violins first appeared in the 16th century (the viol was dominant before that). The flute came much later, I believe.
On fiddle, tunes in G D and A (and their associated Min, Dor and Mix keys) can be played easily without the need to shift position much . The ease of playing notes using unstopped strings (and the enhanced resonance from so doing) also has some bearing on it.
With so many tunes being dominated by these keys, many instruments were manufactured (or adapted) later (with trad/folk players in mind) which facilitated playing in those keys.
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
My opinion is that it wasn't until the 18th century, when violin teachers started on the prescriptive teaching of "positions" and "shifts" - which immediately sets up a little barrier in the beginner's mind, that the violin became more difficult. Until then, players didn't distinguish between 1st and 2nd positions - if you were taught to develop a sufficiently flexible left hand from the start then there would be no problems in playing a c-nat, c# or even a d on the E-string without essentially leaving the 1st position (in modern terms). I think this gives a better understanding of why the music of the Baroque period can be difficult to play using modern technique (with modern bows, if it comes to that, but that's another story).
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
Hi Daiv,
>ramblingpitchfork--tin whistles were not originally made in D. >the original tin whistles were in C, and many used to play in >C. also, concertinas and button accordions were in C, pipes >were often in flat keys, and D was not always the norm. it >depended on the region, and what instruments were played.
True, but as I said above, even when the bottom note isn't really "D", traditional players consider it to be "d" regardless of actual pitch.
A whistle player will generally not finger a tune differently when playing a whistle that isn't in D. They'll just use the same fingering and play it in a different key. Same thing holds for pipers pulling out a set of plat tuned pipes, a box player with a sharp or flat box, or a flute player witha 3/4s flute or some big monster.
They'll still treat the bell note of the pipes/whistle flute as D (and something similar on the box). Sure there might be the odd exception, probably most often on a whistle where someone might use a low A or G to play a tune that would other wise involve substituting alternatives for lower notes (that actually go below d). But they'd be exceptions.
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
But Trev, the period you talk of is the same period the boehm system flute was replacing the simple system flute. Over the 50 years or so (1820ish to 1870ish) a glut of very very good flutes were available for conciderably less money that an equivalent quality viloin. This was the explosion of flute music in Ireland and time when most of the tunes we play play were written.
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
Yes, you're right of course. My rant about violin technique was a little out of place in a flute-based discussion, but someone else did mention the fiddle, and the thoughts came to mind.
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
The fiddle is relevant, the discussion is why the notes D, E, F#, G, A, B, C, C#, d, e, f#, g, a, b, (or their transposed cousins) are more prevalent in Irish diddley music than the ones either in between or above or below.
It's the same discussion as the one about certain kinds of rolls and other articulations. It's because they are shared by the flute, pipes and fiddle.
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
Getting back to the original question for a moment, Chicago Reel is a nice tune centered in C that I like to play on my keyless flute.
No F nats, which I like.
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
I was going to mention the chicago reel, it's a good example of shifting tonal centre. It's written here in A dorian, but I think that's misleading. It has a definate tonal centre of C for the most part, but does resolve to A. Or you could say it doesn't resolve.
If you take the first bar: c d e d c A G E / G, the obvious harmony of the thirds is E Fnat G Fnat E d c a / c.
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
liig - true, no more difficult to pay in C, but you don't have the benefit of an open string for the keynote.
When referred to instruments being made or adapted, I was referring to the likes of the modern whistle etc. The most popular model is the "D" one, as it can be used to play in G D A etc.
And was it not Barney McKenna who came up with with the idea of GDAE tuning, to enable that instrument to be adapted for use with ITM?
No, I'm not "way of the mark"
Ever looked through one of those old fiddlers' manuscript tunebooks? True, they do contain tunes in other keys, but the majority have one, two or three sharps.
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
Maybe LowC, move to the County Clare and environs - they seem to have a liking for playing in C.
I presume the fact that the concertina is also much associated with Clare music is no co-incidence. As Daiv says above, it's handy to just play along the C row on a standard C/G concertina. So I suppose there with lots of concerntina players, the fiddlers just fitted in and played in C? And to hell with the fluters..
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
I was told at a session the other day that the favoured key of many of the older generation of Antrim fiddle players was F. Maybe there were fewer flutes around then (and certainly very few fretted instruments)
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
I play a number of tunes in C, including a Paddy Fahy reel, Rock of Cashel, ummm... and ... ummm... that's all I can think of at the moment...
But it's kind of funny when you start one, and then watch the accompanists. They'll show confusion when they can't find the key, so you lean over and say "C", and then they continue to try every other key, because they believe that you're a silly melody player that doesn't know any better, and it couldn't *really* be in C...
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
"But it's kind of funny when you start one, and then watch the accompanists. They'll show confusion when they can't find the key, so you lean over and say "C", and then they continue to try every other key, because they believe that you're a silly melody player that doesn't know any better, and it couldn't *really* be in C... "
Indeed that can be very true - all the more so if you are just on the whistle. The Lisnagun Jig is a great tune to play on the whistle in C - no Fs in the tune anywhere. It fits really easily. So many times though the guitarist will not believe me.
Whilst it can be amusing it does p*ss me off at times though. As someone who is normally doing the accompaniment if I do play the whistle (or am just sitting out) and a tune comes up that the then accompanyist is struggling to find the key or is playing it in the wrong key if I do help them with the key I don't like being blatantly ignored due to a stubborn streak!
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
For what it's worth, searching the tunes section results in 220 in C. Some, however, appear mis-filed (e.g., Martin Rochford's reel [in F]) and others, shall we say, have not yet gained widespread fame.
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
Patrick - I don't see the relevance of boards grading scales in order of difficulty. I can see where you are heading with it, but I don't think boards' opinions regarding scales and their 'difficulty' is relevant to this sort of music.
tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
it seems there are no tunes in the key of C. should a prevalence of the keys of D, G, A & others be considered . . . accidental?
are the keys of G, D, A & E in celtic music related violin string tuning of G-D-A-E?
as players of bouzouki, irish tenor banjo, 'cello and viola -- tuned C-G-D-A -- blend with other session musicians, should we expect to hear traditional tunes set in the key of C as well?
an online search for "canon in D" leads to a surprising number of returns for music titled "canon in C." hearing the music, it is as lovely and enchanting as the originial -- affronts to possessors of perfect pitch notwithstanding -- and in its current role as motion picture love theme, introduces a new generation to a beloved standard.
which brings me again to my original thought: can we experience traditional irish music be played in a key that is simpler, from the perspective of a beginner, and simpler, too, from the perspective a musician who crosses over on an instrument keyed in C?
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by Low_C
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
Some tunes are commonly played in C (or at least partly in C). Try Kerryman's Daughter, Rooms of Dooagh, and the Watchmaker for starters.
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
Most bouzoukis are tuned GDA and either D or E, so the "easy keys are G and D. Most banjo players use GDAE, the obvious exception being Gerry O'Connor(CGDA). Here in Melbourne I regularly play with B/C accordeon players and we play a number of C tunes. The Old Road to Garry,The Steeplechase, Graf Spee,Hole In The Hedge, and the 2 part Geese In The Bog. Also Brendan Mulhaire recorded a lovely set of C reels some years ago,from memory they were named as A Long Way From Home and Reevey's.
There's also 2 C Reels on this fabulous clip:
http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/comhaltaslive_280_1_darren_mcgee_and_rosie_ferguson/
The Steeplechase(C)/Humors of Westport(F)/Roaring Mary(C)
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by Tony O'Rourke
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
It's b ecause of the flute and pipes
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
Michael's right.
There is no great mystery here, conventionally flutes whistles & pipes are in D. Even when their bottom note isn't actually D it is considered as "D". The common keys in irish music are those most accessible to the simple system flute, tin whistle & pipes.
- chris
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
Important to note though, that it's do with the accessibility of the fingering, not the actual pitch. ie, flutes and pipes in C.
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
Llig's right. Try playing a C tune on a D keyless flute - quite a ride.
However, the tunings are just indicators for the "standard" set of instruments that help people to play together - if you go to a Eb session (like you'd find around Limerick sometimes) you'll find that people do not struggle to remember all the tunes written in Eb, or transpose on the fly using awkward positions on the D instruments - they just play D tunes on Eb-tuned instruments.
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by Janek
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
Cross-posted
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by Janek
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
Also, on the fiddle the keys of D and A are easier to play than C.
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by Henk Bos
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
ramblingpitchfork--tin whistles were not originally made in D. the original tin whistles were in C, and many used to play in C. also, concertinas and button accordions were in C, pipes were often in flat keys, and D was not always the norm. it depended on the region, and what instruments were played.
my grandmother's cousin was very surprised to see that i played the concertina in more than one row at a time, because her mother would play tunes in the key of C in the C row, and the key of G in the Grow. she never played in the key of D.
D is a very easy key on the fiddle, and flutes are designed around the key of D. keyed flutes are technically in the key of C, but this is deceptive... they are based on baroque flutes which are in the key of D, but they lengthened them, keeping the basic scale the same. so, keyed flutes are in D with an extension, not in the key of C.
so, many tunes that today are in played in D were traditionally played in C by those playing the whistle or box of some sort, and of course pipers played in whatever key their instrument was in, which was often C, C# and even B. some, like noel hill, still play very old tunes like the concertina reel in C, because that is how they learned the tunes, even though by their time everyone was playing in D and G. i myself play laird o'beirnes in Bb because that is how tommy peoples played it, and i have trouble playing it A.
also, i believe if you look at older compilations, you will find tunes in more varied keys, including a lot of tunes in C and F.
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by daiv
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
I had assumed it was to do with the average size of peoples' hands. That baroque flutes were in D (a slightly lower one than now) because that was where the 'market' was. A natural 'unit' that was gravitated to because it suited people. Like the pint for beer.
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by David50
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
I love hearing tunes in C and they are a joy to accompany on the guitar. If I capo on 3rd and play in A the guitar just comes to life. You get lots of C tunes in one of the Irish sessions in Glasgow (largely because of one of the box players!).
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
I've mentioned this before, but it's relevant here. I think often misleading to talk about specific keys, modes, or even specific notes. The music was not written by people who were aware of such musical theory. But what they were aware of, and had a marvellous ability in, was intervals.
For example, he easiest intervals available to them on a simple system flute were, from a bottom note going up: tone, tone, semitone, tone, tone, semitone, semitone, semitone, tone, tone, semitone (this is the octave above the bottom), tone, tone, semitone, tone, tone.
On a D flute these notes are D, E, F#, G, A, B, C, C#, d, e, f#, g, a, b,
And it's no coincidence that these are the notes that fall easiest under the fingers on a fiddle. From the open D string to the pinky on the e string.
So what happened was, the vast majority of tunes were written using only these intervals. And the character of the tunes comes from where you place your tonal centre within this narrow range. For example, a tune that has the tonal centre on the 1st note on the list (we'll call it a D, but as mentioned above, it could equally be an Eb or a C etc) has a tonal range of an octave and a 6th Which is a very different character to one with its centre on the 4th note on the list (we'll call that a G, but on an Eb flute it would be a G# and on a C flute it would be an Fnat). This tune has a range from the 4th below the root, one octave, and up to a 3rd above the octave.
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
I thought baroque flutes were actually in Eb, but a rather low-pitched Eb, which is why you can pull out the tuning slide a little and you're in the modern day D ?
There is a whole lecture or lesson just in the history of pitch.
And of course, a lot of single-row melodians are in C as well.....
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
That's the point Pete, the pitch is irrelevant. It's the intervals that matter
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
I reckon that it's down to the fiddle myself. Violins first appeared in the 16th century (the viol was dominant before that). The flute came much later, I believe.
On fiddle, tunes in G D and A (and their associated Min, Dor and Mix keys) can be played easily without the need to shift position much . The ease of playing notes using unstopped strings (and the enhanced resonance from so doing) also has some bearing on it.
With so many tunes being dominated by these keys, many instruments were manufactured (or adapted) later (with trad/folk players in mind) which facilitated playing in those keys.
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
You really think the simple system flute was manufactured or adapted with trad/folk players in mind?
Sorry mate, way off the mark there.
Anyway, it's as easy to play in C on a violin than any key.
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
My opinion is that it wasn't until the 18th century, when violin teachers started on the prescriptive teaching of "positions" and "shifts" - which immediately sets up a little barrier in the beginner's mind, that the violin became more difficult. Until then, players didn't distinguish between 1st and 2nd positions - if you were taught to develop a sufficiently flexible left hand from the start then there would be no problems in playing a c-nat, c# or even a d on the E-string without essentially leaving the 1st position (in modern terms). I think this gives a better understanding of why the music of the Baroque period can be difficult to play using modern technique (with modern bows, if it comes to that, but that's another story).
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
Hi Daiv,
>ramblingpitchfork--tin whistles were not originally made in D. >the original tin whistles were in C, and many used to play in >C. also, concertinas and button accordions were in C, pipes >were often in flat keys, and D was not always the norm. it >depended on the region, and what instruments were played.
True, but as I said above, even when the bottom note isn't really "D", traditional players consider it to be "d" regardless of actual pitch.
A whistle player will generally not finger a tune differently when playing a whistle that isn't in D. They'll just use the same fingering and play it in a different key. Same thing holds for pipers pulling out a set of plat tuned pipes, a box player with a sharp or flat box, or a flute player witha 3/4s flute or some big monster.
They'll still treat the bell note of the pipes/whistle flute as D (and something similar on the box). Sure there might be the odd exception, probably most often on a whistle where someone might use a low A or G to play a tune that would other wise involve substituting alternatives for lower notes (that actually go below d). But they'd be exceptions.
- chris
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
sorry, that should of course be "flat tuned flipes"
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
But Trev, the period you talk of is the same period the boehm system flute was replacing the simple system flute. Over the 50 years or so (1820ish to 1870ish) a glut of very very good flutes were available for conciderably less money that an equivalent quality viloin. This was the explosion of flute music in Ireland and time when most of the tunes we play play were written.
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
Yes, you're right of course. My rant about violin technique was a little out of place in a flute-based discussion, but someone else did mention the fiddle, and the thoughts came to mind.
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
The fiddle is relevant, the discussion is why the notes D, E, F#, G, A, B, C, C#, d, e, f#, g, a, b, (or their transposed cousins) are more prevalent in Irish diddley music than the ones either in between or above or below.
It's the same discussion as the one about certain kinds of rolls and other articulations. It's because they are shared by the flute, pipes and fiddle.
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
Getting back to the original question for a moment, Chicago Reel is a nice tune centered in C that I like to play on my keyless flute.
No F nats, which I like.
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/840
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
I was going to mention the chicago reel, it's a good example of shifting tonal centre. It's written here in A dorian, but I think that's misleading. It has a definate tonal centre of C for the most part, but does resolve to A. Or you could say it doesn't resolve.
If you take the first bar: c d e d c A G E / G, the obvious harmony of the thirds is E Fnat G Fnat E d c a / c.
There is no Fnat in the tune, but it's implied.
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
liig - true, no more difficult to pay in C, but you don't have the benefit of an open string for the keynote.
When referred to instruments being made or adapted, I was referring to the likes of the modern whistle etc. The most popular model is the "D" one, as it can be used to play in G D A etc.
And was it not Barney McKenna who came up with with the idea of GDAE tuning, to enable that instrument to be adapted for use with ITM?
No, I'm not "way of the mark"
Ever looked through one of those old fiddlers' manuscript tunebooks? True, they do contain tunes in other keys, but the majority have one, two or three sharps.
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
I don't think Barney, was the first to play drop tuned tenor, but he was for many years the best known.
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
OK, maybe not the first, but he was certainly the one who popularised the instrument and the tuning.
But it doesn't really matter who it was - just that it is now the most commonly used tuning for ITM TB.
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
You know, I've been playing in D and G for so long that when someone does something in C it nearly throws me. Nearly, that is.
Yeah, it's no mystery. Pipes, flutes, whistles, good night.
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
Maybe LowC, move to the County Clare and environs - they seem to have a liking for playing in C.
I presume the fact that the concertina is also much associated with Clare music is no co-incidence. As Daiv says above, it's handy to just play along the C row on a standard C/G concertina. So I suppose there with lots of concerntina players, the fiddlers just fitted in and played in C? And to hell with the fluters..
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by the wounded hussar
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
I was told at a session the other day that the favoured key of many of the older generation of Antrim fiddle players was F. Maybe there were fewer flutes around then (and certainly very few fretted instruments)
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by Jerry O'Donnell
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
Errrm? ... where did I say that?
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
I play a number of tunes in C, including a Paddy Fahy reel, Rock of Cashel, ummm... and ... ummm... that's all I can think of at the moment...
But it's kind of funny when you start one, and then watch the accompanists. They'll show confusion when they can't find the key, so you lean over and say "C", and then they continue to try every other key, because they believe that you're a silly melody player that doesn't know any better, and it couldn't *really* be in C...
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by Reverend
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
"But it's kind of funny when you start one, and then watch the accompanists. They'll show confusion when they can't find the key, so you lean over and say "C", and then they continue to try every other key, because they believe that you're a silly melody player that doesn't know any better, and it couldn't *really* be in C... "
Indeed that can be very true - all the more so if you are just on the whistle. The Lisnagun Jig is a great tune to play on the whistle in C - no Fs in the tune anywhere. It fits really easily. So many times though the guitarist will not believe me.
Whilst it can be amusing it does p*ss me off at times though. As someone who is normally doing the accompaniment if I do play the whistle (or am just sitting out) and a tune comes up that the then accompanyist is struggling to find the key or is playing it in the wrong key if I do help them with the key I don't like being blatantly ignored due to a stubborn streak!
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
For what it's worth, searching the tunes section results in 220 in C. Some, however, appear mis-filed (e.g., Martin Rochford's reel [in F]) and others, shall we say, have not yet gained widespread fame.
# Posted on March 13th 2009 by Jameson Stew
Re: tunes in key of C-Major vs key of D ( G, A, E, &c . . . )
Patrick - I don't see the relevance of boards grading scales in order of difficulty. I can see where you are heading with it, but I don't think boards' opinions regarding scales and their 'difficulty' is relevant to this sort of music.
Cheers
Nathan
# Posted on March 15th 2009 by Brown Creeper