My heart tells me it's the violin, but could it be the theramin? One hand controls pitch and dynamics. The other hand controls volume. Beyond air resistance, there is apparently no other friction to delay the production of a tone as opposed to the physical necessities of hand on bow and fingers on fingerboard. The speed of electricity adds a delay on the theremin, but surely this is imperceptible compared to the electrical impulses between the brain and hands of a fiddle player. Has anyone heard ITM played on a theremin? I haven't. Pamelia Kurstin does a pretty good job with other styles.
It's a problem with theramin players, they tend to use too much vibrato, mainly to cover poor intonation (it's very hard to play in tune, main ly because it's very dificult to keep an unsuported hand steady), but also because of the sci-fi tradition.
I had a go on one once, I tried to play a slow air on it. Sounded horrible, but no worse than the first time I picked up a fiddle. I'm sure it would be a great instrument to play slow airs on. But you'd have to pgive it some dedication.
Llig the idea of you playing the theramin at a session makes me smile. I imagine sessionorgers everywhere blinking and thinking : Bodhrans, bouzoukis, guitars, inarticulate banjos and mandolins, non-roll playing concertinas are all out.* And your man turns up with hippy gimmik shoplifted from a Trekkie convention!
- chris
*I herebye acknowlege my indulgence in a little wilfull misrepresentation
I love the TED site - Evelyn Glennie's talk is another worth watching. By the way, isn't the Theremin similar in sound to the Ondes Martenot? I know the Ondes Martenot is played differently (with a keyboard) but that's the one that's used in the original Star Trek music...and probably one of the few electronic instruments that's made it into the general orchestral repertoire.
I wasn't poking a stick at llig mentioning the Evelyn Glennie talk. It brought to mind a lot of what he, Will and the other worthies on this site say.
I once heard someone who had been asked to 'sing the space' at a new concert hall demonstrate improvised vocalisations to explore the acoustics of a building. That's what I thought made the theramin sound limited in comparison to the human voice.
It's important to remember that Evelyn Glennie is not nearly as deaf as her publicity machine makes he out to be.
However, She can still only play percussion.
The bit where she talks about seeing a tree's leaves waving in the wind and having to imagine the sound of the rustling is telling. For obvious reasons, she is very interested in this aspect of music. But I warn against it, especially with diddley music. For so many people I meet, a great proportion of the music they hear is imagined. And because of this, the sound they make when they play is far away from the sound they imagine they make.
It has me thinking that seeing what is making a sound or feeling how we make one is an important part of perceiving what is going on.
One reason that a session is different to a recording of a session is the bowing bows, squeezing boxes and picking fingers, strumming arms and stomping feet. Like watching that theramin player, or the bows of an orchestra string section, or some theatrical kodo drumming. And why PA systems changing where sounds are coming from adds another processing step, for the listener, into appreciating who is doing what.
That's a great point, david- the physicality of playing does seem an important ingredient, or the production of the sound needs to reflected somewhere else (in Bill Bailey's case, the face.)
The production of the sound needs be reflected off the walls and floor (see the dancing thread) not some jester's grimacing face.
One of the things that felt disconcerting about playing the theramin was that you are not producing any sound. The machine and the amp and the speakers do that. You merely affect the sound, by articulating the magnetic field. It's counterintuitive. But not really that much different from playing an electric guitar, where you manipulate a magnetic field by vibrating half a dozen steel wires.
Ah, llig, once again I disagree with you.
Bill Bailey is not just a jester ( note the subtle use of an archaic word to imply he is not relevant to today ), he is also an accomplished musician, admittedly playing mainly fretted and keyboard instruments, for which we already know you have little sympathy.
And remember the time when a young musician on "Never Mind the Buzzcocks" tried to take the p1ss out of him - the compere cried "Don't do it ! He's a professional comedian. You can't win !".
I went to see him thinking he was 'just' a comedian- but he kept a packed Albert Hall very well entertained for a couple of hours on the subject of the orchestra, its instruments, etc. etc. Quick fire, funny and a competent multi-instrumentalist. I think there was even a passing reference to Irish music, but quite what exactly escapes me.
'One of the things that felt disconcerting about playing the theremin was that you are not producing any sound.'
Hi Llig could you say the same about the fiddle? Does music already exist inside an instrument? When you play are you not just merely affecting the sound that is then amplified by the soundboard, bridge, fingerboard etc. ? Does the bow articulate what is already inherent in the instrument? Ooh this is getting quite philosophical. Talking of philosophy here's an interesting question: if a man is alone in a forest and he says something, and there isn't a woman there to hear him. is he still wrong?
I once heard a busker on Grafton St. use a fiddle bow to play a saw. It looked like a regular carpenter's wood cutting saw. The handle was jammed between his knees and he held the other end using a block of wood I think. He bowed the blunt side of saw like a cello. It was a quite beautiful, eerie type of sound. Almost a pure sine wave. A little bit like a Theramin I suppose. As I remember he played some slow Irishy type airs - Isle of Inishfree and that type of schmalz.
The perfect untempered instrument?
The perfect untempered instrument?
My heart tells me it's the violin, but could it be the theramin? One hand controls pitch and dynamics. The other hand controls volume. Beyond air resistance, there is apparently no other friction to delay the production of a tone as opposed to the physical necessities of hand on bow and fingers on fingerboard. The speed of electricity adds a delay on the theremin, but surely this is imperceptible compared to the electrical impulses between the brain and hands of a fiddle player. Has anyone heard ITM played on a theremin? I haven't. Pamelia Kurstin does a pretty good job with other styles.
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/pamelia_kurstin_plays_the_theremin.html
I'd love to have a go on one. What do you think? Joel
# Posted on March 4th 2009 by McDermott
Re: The perfect untempered instrument?
the Force be with you - klaatu barada nicto - live long and prosper
# Posted on March 4th 2009 by Hup
Re: The perfect untempered instrument?
It's the Swanee whistle
# Posted on March 4th 2009 by greg sheils
Re: The perfect untempered instrument?
if that means a slide whistle, then i agree w/ tone dumb harry
# Posted on March 4th 2009 by pipewatcher
Re: The perfect untempered instrument?
or maybe also the washtub bass
# Posted on March 4th 2009 by pipewatcher
Re: The perfect untempered instrument?
It's a problem with theramin players, they tend to use too much vibrato, mainly to cover poor intonation (it's very hard to play in tune, main ly because it's very dificult to keep an unsuported hand steady), but also because of the sci-fi tradition.
I had a go on one once, I tried to play a slow air on it. Sounded horrible, but no worse than the first time I picked up a fiddle. I'm sure it would be a great instrument to play slow airs on. But you'd have to pgive it some dedication.
# Posted on March 4th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: The perfect untempered instrument?
Kept thinking, well, yes, very clever, but I'd prefer a singer.
But hey llig, how about the Evelyn Glennie video being offered up on that page ?
# Posted on March 4th 2009 by David50
Re: The perfect untempered instrument?
trombone?
Like the swanee whistle suggestion though
Llig the idea of you playing the theramin at a session makes me smile. I imagine sessionorgers everywhere blinking and thinking : Bodhrans, bouzoukis, guitars, inarticulate banjos and mandolins, non-roll playing concertinas are all out.* And your man turns up with hippy gimmik shoplifted from a Trekkie convention!
- chris
*I herebye acknowlege my indulgence in a little wilfull misrepresentation
# Posted on March 4th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: The perfect untempered instrument?
i had a friend who brought one of these back from Viet Nam:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYSgPobFndk
he called it the "acoustic theramin"
# Posted on March 4th 2009 by pipewatcher
Re: The perfect untempered instrument?
I love the TED site - Evelyn Glennie's talk is another worth watching. By the way, isn't the Theremin similar in sound to the Ondes Martenot? I know the Ondes Martenot is played differently (with a keyboard) but that's the one that's used in the original Star Trek music...and probably one of the few electronic instruments that's made it into the general orchestral repertoire.
# Posted on March 4th 2009 by Mark Harmer
Re: The perfect untempered instrument?
I wasn't poking a stick at llig mentioning the Evelyn Glennie talk. It brought to mind a lot of what he, Will and the other worthies on this site say.
I once heard someone who had been asked to 'sing the space' at a new concert hall demonstrate improvised vocalisations to explore the acoustics of a building. That's what I thought made the theramin sound limited in comparison to the human voice.
# Posted on March 4th 2009 by David50
Re: The perfect untempered instrument?
It's important to remember that Evelyn Glennie is not nearly as deaf as her publicity machine makes he out to be.
However, She can still only play percussion.
The bit where she talks about seeing a tree's leaves waving in the wind and having to imagine the sound of the rustling is telling. For obvious reasons, she is very interested in this aspect of music. But I warn against it, especially with diddley music. For so many people I meet, a great proportion of the music they hear is imagined. And because of this, the sound they make when they play is far away from the sound they imagine they make.
# Posted on March 4th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: The perfect untempered instrument?
British Comedian Bill Bailey uses one of these in his shows, using his expressive face to ham things up a little- it seems to lend itself to that.
# Posted on March 4th 2009 by Here Lyeth
Re: The perfect untempered instrument?
It has me thinking that seeing what is making a sound or feeling how we make one is an important part of perceiving what is going on.
One reason that a session is different to a recording of a session is the bowing bows, squeezing boxes and picking fingers, strumming arms and stomping feet. Like watching that theramin player, or the bows of an orchestra string section, or some theatrical kodo drumming. And why PA systems changing where sounds are coming from adds another processing step, for the listener, into appreciating who is doing what.
# Posted on March 4th 2009 by David50
Re: The perfect untempered instrument?
That's a great point, david- the physicality of playing does seem an important ingredient, or the production of the sound needs to reflected somewhere else (in Bill Bailey's case, the face.)
# Posted on March 4th 2009 by Here Lyeth
Re: The perfect untempered instrument?
The production of the sound needs be reflected off the walls and floor (see the dancing thread) not some jester's grimacing face.
One of the things that felt disconcerting about playing the theramin was that you are not producing any sound. The machine and the amp and the speakers do that. You merely affect the sound, by articulating the magnetic field. It's counterintuitive. But not really that much different from playing an electric guitar, where you manipulate a magnetic field by vibrating half a dozen steel wires.
# Posted on March 4th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: The perfect untempered instrument?
For me, it's the bowed double bass. It's powerful, expressive, capable of tremendous range, and you can play it anywhere, unlke the theremin
# Posted on March 4th 2009 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: The perfect untempered instrument?
Ah, llig, once again I disagree with you.
Bill Bailey is not just a jester ( note the subtle use of an archaic word to imply he is not relevant to today ), he is also an accomplished musician, admittedly playing mainly fretted and keyboard instruments, for which we already know you have little sympathy.
And remember the time when a young musician on "Never Mind the Buzzcocks" tried to take the p1ss out of him - the compere cried "Don't do it ! He's a professional comedian. You can't win !".
# Posted on March 4th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: The perfect untempered instrument?
I went to see him thinking he was 'just' a comedian- but he kept a packed Albert Hall very well entertained for a couple of hours on the subject of the orchestra, its instruments, etc. etc. Quick fire, funny and a competent multi-instrumentalist. I think there was even a passing reference to Irish music, but quite what exactly escapes me.
# Posted on March 4th 2009 by Here Lyeth
Re: The perfect untempered instrument?
'One of the things that felt disconcerting about playing the theremin was that you are not producing any sound.'
Hi Llig could you say the same about the fiddle? Does music already exist inside an instrument? When you play are you not just merely affecting the sound that is then amplified by the soundboard, bridge, fingerboard etc. ? Does the bow articulate what is already inherent in the instrument? Ooh this is getting quite philosophical. Talking of philosophy here's an interesting question: if a man is alone in a forest and he says something, and there isn't a woman there to hear him. is he still wrong?
# Posted on March 4th 2009 by McDermott
Re: The perfect untempered instrument?
No- as long as all he says is 'Yes'...
# Posted on March 4th 2009 by Here Lyeth
Re: The perfect untempered instrument?
I once heard a busker on Grafton St. use a fiddle bow to play a saw. It looked like a regular carpenter's wood cutting saw. The handle was jammed between his knees and he held the other end using a block of wood I think. He bowed the blunt side of saw like a cello. It was a quite beautiful, eerie type of sound. Almost a pure sine wave. A little bit like a Theramin I suppose. As I remember he played some slow Irishy type airs - Isle of Inishfree and that type of schmalz.
# Posted on March 4th 2009 by SteelPlayer