I'm hoping some folks here can articulate in layman's terms the stylistic expressions that identify the different regions in Irish music. What identifies a Sligo fiddler's style from a Clare, or Donegal player's style? What techniques or ornaments separate the various counties in the way they express a tune? Additionally, is this discussion primarily limited to only fiddle playing or can you hear the regional accent of flute players (for example) as well, if they were raised in a specific style?
Re: Understanding the differences in regional styles
take Caoimhín Mac Aoidh's writing with a pinch of salt; they certainly aren't watertight. I've read a fair few of his writings, tune publications and even attended a presentation he did on James "the scribe" O'Neill. None of them were impressive and many had large areas of inaccuracy.
Not that his work doesn't deserve attention, but by aware that it's not gospel.
Re: Understanding the differences in regional styles
Wow - some very tasty playing in the 'resinandbows' utube site -
for example Johnny 'the animal' and Jacqui
it would be nice to read a few sentences from each player about
where they place themselves in the style universe and who their
main influences are ... if any of you guys are reading this
Re: Understanding the differences in regional styles
How long various regional styles persisted for is another question (I'm not going to pretend I have the answer).
Did regional styles vary over time due to the dominance of a couple of influential players in consecutive generations of musicians.
The wonderful Paddy Canny has been credited with effectively creating the "East Clare" style. How did players in that local play before him. Was there an older identifiable EAst Clare style that became supplanted.
i.e. to what extent are what we percieve as regional styles actually the latest in a line of succeeding fashions, rather than a long unbroken sub-tradition.
I'm not knocking regional styles, just playing devils advocate. Are the "Sligo", "East Clare", "Donegal" etc styles not just representative of a particular geographical region, but also of a particular time? Snapshots in a changing history that have been given prominance over earlier styles due to serendipidous occurance at a time when mass communications brought expert proponents of these particular fashions to a wider (and longer lasting) audience?
There, I've wanted to ask that for some time, and I've done it now
Re: Understanding the differences in regional styles
I agree with a statement made in another thread:
"The reason Donegal Gaelic is distinct from the Gaelic of Kerry or South Uist is not because the people were poorly travelled, but because the Gaelic comes from a living community of speakers, and the same goes for music."
from: http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/16800
I will go further: Any genuine Gaelic belongs to one or other of the regional dialects. The Dublin government standard Irish invented in the 1950s is an artificial language. Likewise the only genuinely traditional Irish music is an instance of one or other of the regional styles. Traditional music in Scandinavia has not suffered the same attack on traditional styles because it has not been popularized internationally, with the dumbing down that appears to come with it. As Caoimhín Ó Raghallaigh said, nowadays with our being bombarded with various musical influences (from other musical traditions, and of course from the insidious Irish-music-lite) we need to do a little scholarship in order to play traditional music, unless of course one is not interested in whether or not the music one plays is actually traditional.
Understanding the differences in regional styles
Understanding the differences in regional styles
I'm hoping some folks here can articulate in layman's terms the stylistic expressions that identify the different regions in Irish music. What identifies a Sligo fiddler's style from a Clare, or Donegal player's style? What techniques or ornaments separate the various counties in the way they express a tune? Additionally, is this discussion primarily limited to only fiddle playing or can you hear the regional accent of flute players (for example) as well, if they were raised in a specific style?
# Posted on February 25th 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Understanding the differences in regional styles
last time this came up, someone posted a web site that explained it very well, with examples
# Posted on February 25th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Understanding the differences in regional styles
http://www.irishfiddle.com/article_on_styles1.html
http://www.irishfiddle.com/article_on_styles2.html
http://www.irishfiddle.com/article_on_styles3.html
# Posted on February 25th 2009 by ʎɹoʇısuɐɹʇ
Re: Understanding the differences in regional styles
take Caoimhín Mac Aoidh's writing with a pinch of salt; they certainly aren't watertight. I've read a fair few of his writings, tune publications and even attended a presentation he did on James "the scribe" O'Neill. None of them were impressive and many had large areas of inaccuracy.
Not that his work doesn't deserve attention, but by aware that it's not gospel.
# Posted on February 25th 2009 by flying fists of poo poo
Re: Understanding the differences in regional styles
IMO Only one way... get some recordings of the old boys , and listen.
# Posted on February 25th 2009 by piobagusfidil
Re: Understanding the differences in regional styles
That's not the link posted before. The one I was thinking of had videos of different regional players playing the same tune.
# Posted on February 25th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Understanding the differences in regional styles
Hey Jusa, I think the closest you're going to get to what you're looking for without too many fists flyinmg is page 3 of Joe's links there.
# Posted on February 25th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Understanding the differences in regional styles
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/14675
???
# Posted on February 25th 2009 by domnull
Re: Understanding the differences in regional styles
Coleman, Morrison . . .
http://www.juneberry78s.com/sounds/ListenToIrishDance.htm
If someone will send me to Sligo I'll go listen & let you know what they are doing.
;)
# Posted on February 25th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Understanding the differences in regional styles
http://www.resinandbow.com/ is what I think llig is talking about
# Posted on February 25th 2009 by Tirno
Re: Understanding the differences in regional styles
We've been down this road so many times before.
'Local styles' is a far more appropriate term. Counties are not hermetic entities.
Yes, there are distinct local flute styles. Check the players from North Leitrim/Southern Fermanagh against those from South Leitrim/North Roscommon.
# Posted on February 25th 2009 by MacCruiskeen
Re: Understanding the differences in regional styles
Random_notes
If you need a scribe, I'll tag along with you
# Posted on February 25th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Understanding the differences in regional styles
Yeah, that's the one. Quite good I thought.
# Posted on February 25th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Understanding the differences in regional styles
Tirno and joesmith - thank you for the useful Links. That's exactly what I was hoping for.
# Posted on February 25th 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Understanding the differences in regional styles
Wow - some very tasty playing in the 'resinandbows' utube site -
for example Johnny 'the animal' and Jacqui
it would be nice to read a few sentences from each player about
where they place themselves in the style universe and who their
main influences are ... if any of you guys are reading this
# Posted on February 26th 2009 by Hup
Re: Understanding the differences in regional styles
Is this a regional style?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RQPeoyqyP4
# Posted on February 26th 2009 by Rudall the time
Re: Understanding the differences in regional styles
How long various regional styles persisted for is another question (I'm not going to pretend I have the answer).
Did regional styles vary over time due to the dominance of a couple of influential players in consecutive generations of musicians.
The wonderful Paddy Canny has been credited with effectively creating the "East Clare" style. How did players in that local play before him. Was there an older identifiable EAst Clare style that became supplanted.
i.e. to what extent are what we percieve as regional styles actually the latest in a line of succeeding fashions, rather than a long unbroken sub-tradition.
I'm not knocking regional styles, just playing devils advocate. Are the "Sligo", "East Clare", "Donegal" etc styles not just representative of a particular geographical region, but also of a particular time? Snapshots in a changing history that have been given prominance over earlier styles due to serendipidous occurance at a time when mass communications brought expert proponents of these particular fashions to a wider (and longer lasting) audience?
There, I've wanted to ask that for some time, and I've done it now
- Chris
# Posted on February 26th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: Understanding the differences in regional styles
I agree with a statement made in another thread:
"The reason Donegal Gaelic is distinct from the Gaelic of Kerry or South Uist is not because the people were poorly travelled, but because the Gaelic comes from a living community of speakers, and the same goes for music."
from:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/16800
I will go further: Any genuine Gaelic belongs to one or other of the regional dialects. The Dublin government standard Irish invented in the 1950s is an artificial language. Likewise the only genuinely traditional Irish music is an instance of one or other of the regional styles. Traditional music in Scandinavia has not suffered the same attack on traditional styles because it has not been popularized internationally, with the dumbing down that appears to come with it. As Caoimhín Ó Raghallaigh said, nowadays with our being bombarded with various musical influences (from other musical traditions, and of course from the insidious Irish-music-lite) we need to do a little scholarship in order to play traditional music, unless of course one is not interested in whether or not the music one plays is actually traditional.
Also worth looking at:
Teaching an Obscure repertoire:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/16748
Those who scorn "purism"...:
http://66.216.73.96/discussions/display/15534
Regional Styles:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/14690
# Posted on March 2nd 2009 by klhsadhfahslkdfhsalk