Maybe fiddle players are already familiar with this - if you don't like (or can't easily) play phrases in 3rd position you can sometimes use 1st position to play them an octave lower, eg Golden Eagle hornpipe, 2nd part. I use this for some of my students - it's can be a good workaround for a tune that's only got a few notes in 3rd position and saves them struggling with it.
Since most tunes don't go that high, most fiddlers (without some classical training) don't need to go there, or just avoid those tunes that do. But depending on how they're holding the fiddle, they can learn 3rd position just for the E string, if they want to do the high notes. I say, if you want that, then go for it!
The ability to move up and down the positions is usually a good sign that posture is good and that all is well with relaxation in the left hand. And, if you have that degree of relaxation then things like rolls and cuts should be that much easier.
Trevor
I agree with Trevor----if you're relaxed, going up into 3rd position isn't such a big deal once you get used to it---and for great tunes like Sean Sa Ceo that go up into 3rd postion just a bit, it's definitely worth it. It's really just a matter of getting over the fear of doing it....once you get a sense of where 3rd position is, and practice it enough, it's a piece of cake.
Yes, to all previous posts here - and how about using 3rd pos. in the Musical Priest? There's a bit in the third part where I've heard c' sharp or d'. Just working now on a version where I can do that myself.
"It's really just a matter of getting over the
fear of doing it....once you get a sense of where it is, and practice it enough, it's a piece of cake." Isn't that the case with all of diddling?
Although in Irish trad fiddle music you don't need anything like the vast range of techniques expected of the advanced classical player it is still useful to practice, and have confidence in using, the higher positions, including moving across the strings in those higher positions. You may not think it matters all that much but it will give you a much more solid foundation for confident finger work and perhaps give you the opportunity to simplify the playing of an awkward group of notes by moving briefly to a higher position. It is known that facility in using the positions improves your vibrato should you ever require it (normally only in slow airs).
Trevor
Thanks to everyone for their replies to this post, and I do agree with them all. I should say that my tip was intended as a workaround (only a handful of tunes would benefit from this and one or two would sound better), and as a rule I would certainly not discourage players out there or my students away from third position when it was required. It opens up so much more possibilities. And Michael - when you said "all of diddling", did you mean "all of diddling" or "all of fiddling"?
Too, once you're comfortable changing positions quickly and accurately you can also choose which string gets a run, or keep a run or roll on a single string. Some phrases work better if you're in 2nd or 3rd or higher positions...
But I really like the workaround too, as a student will be more motivated to learn positions *after* they've acquired a love of playing, and for many that comes with some accomplishment.
Avoiding 3rd position
Avoiding 3rd position
Maybe fiddle players are already familiar with this - if you don't like (or can't easily) play phrases in 3rd position you can sometimes use 1st position to play them an octave lower, eg Golden Eagle hornpipe, 2nd part. I use this for some of my students - it's can be a good workaround for a tune that's only got a few notes in 3rd position and saves them struggling with it.
Jim
# Posted on August 29th 2003 by Worldfiddler
Re: Avoiding 3rd position
Since most tunes don't go that high, most fiddlers (without some classical training) don't need to go there, or just avoid those tunes that do. But depending on how they're holding the fiddle, they can learn 3rd position just for the E string, if they want to do the high notes. I say, if you want that, then go for it!
# Posted on August 30th 2003 by fiddlefingers
Re: Avoiding 3rd position
The ability to move up and down the positions is usually a good sign that posture is good and that all is well with relaxation in the left hand. And, if you have that degree of relaxation then things like rolls and cuts should be that much easier.
Trevor
# Posted on August 30th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Avoiding 3rd position
I agree with Trevor----if you're relaxed, going up into 3rd position isn't such a big deal once you get used to it---and for great tunes like Sean Sa Ceo that go up into 3rd postion just a bit, it's definitely worth it. It's really just a matter of getting over the fear of doing it....once you get a sense of where 3rd position is, and practice it enough, it's a piece of cake.
# Posted on August 30th 2003 by aoife
Re: Avoiding 3rd position
Yes, to all previous posts here - and how about using 3rd pos. in the Musical Priest? There's a bit in the third part where I've heard c' sharp or d'. Just working now on a version where I can do that myself.
# Posted on August 31st 2003 by fiddlefingers
Re: Avoiding 3rd position
"It's really just a matter of getting over the
fear of doing it....once you get a sense of where it is, and practice it enough, it's a piece of cake." Isn't that the case with all of diddling?
# Posted on August 31st 2003 by ...
Re: Avoiding 3rd position
Although in Irish trad fiddle music you don't need anything like the vast range of techniques expected of the advanced classical player it is still useful to practice, and have confidence in using, the higher positions, including moving across the strings in those higher positions. You may not think it matters all that much but it will give you a much more solid foundation for confident finger work and perhaps give you the opportunity to simplify the playing of an awkward group of notes by moving briefly to a higher position. It is known that facility in using the positions improves your vibrato should you ever require it (normally only in slow airs).
Trevor
# Posted on August 31st 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Avoiding 3rd position
Thanks to everyone for their replies to this post, and I do agree with them all. I should say that my tip was intended as a workaround (only a handful of tunes would benefit from this and one or two would sound better), and as a rule I would certainly not discourage players out there or my students away from third position when it was required. It opens up so much more possibilities. And Michael - when you said "all of diddling", did you mean "all of diddling" or "all of fiddling"?
Jim
# Posted on August 31st 2003 by Worldfiddler
Re: Avoiding 3rd position
Too, once you're comfortable changing positions quickly and accurately you can also choose which string gets a run, or keep a run or roll on a single string. Some phrases work better if you're in 2nd or 3rd or higher positions...
But I really like the workaround too, as a student will be more motivated to learn positions *after* they've acquired a love of playing, and for many that comes with some accomplishment.
# Posted on September 10th 2003 by vulcan666