Tenor string guage tension with odd tuning question
Tenor string guage tension with odd tuning question
From lowest pitch to highest I tune B E A D. If I use 40 30 20 13 guage strings am I putting too much tension on the neck? It's a 19 fret banjo. It's not expensive but I don't want to do anything that will harm it over time.
Banjo
len 23.0"
D .013" PL == 17.7#
A, .020" NW == 19.88#
E, .030" NW == 25.66#
B,, .040" NW == 24.55#
Total == 87.79#
This is assuming 23" scale, which is about right for 19 frets, and assuming that you're using Nickel strings, with a wound A string... (And assuming you're using the low B above the usual G...)
What this shows is that you have a lot of tension on the B and E strings. 90 pounds of total pressure is not excessive, probably, unless it's a very old, vintage banjo. (My bouzouki has about 235 pounds of tension on the neck, but it is modern, and has a truss rod...) But my Ome banjo only has about 63 pounds of tension on it.
The other thing to consider is that the banjo would sound and feel more balanced if you normalize the tension across all four courses a bit... So something like:
Banjo
len 23.0"
D .013" PL == 17.7#
A, .020" NW == 19.88#
E, .026" NW == 18.87#
B,, .034" NW == 18.04#
Re: Tenor string guage tension with odd tuning question
err, yeah, grego, that might make sense, huh? A step above the high tenor tuning CGDA? Which would make it a pretty high and twinkly sounding thing, I would imagine.
But that does bring up the point, shanty, why you wouldn't use GDAE, like the rest of us (minus Gerry O'Connor, who plays CGDA...) Are you playing Irish? If so, then you'll find that GDAE will work well, because it's the same tuning as the fiddle (down an octave). So tunes that sit well on the fiddle generally sit well on the the banjo. Otherwise, you might find yourself having some bloody painful string crossings and strangeness...
Re: Tenor string guage tension with odd tuning question
There is a small tradition out there of using DAEB (or CGDA with a capo on the 2nd fret.)
It means you play your tunes a string lower than you would on the GDAE banjo, and don't have to stretch to get the high B.
But you lose out on the sympathetic resonance from the bass G string, the occasional tune note that falls below the D, and the opportunity to substitute the deep bass G for the higher one, once in a while, for effect.
Oh, and transposing tunes down a fifth for a grittier sound like Angelina does sometimes.
Re: Tenor string guage tension with odd tuning question
Been a musician my whole life. Had a stroke at age 32. Blew my hand out. Took up whistle because the movements were 'small' if you will. This was good therapy and as my hand came back, over the years, I moved back to guitar. I can bang out some simple chords in dadgad tuning but not much more than that will I ever play on guitar anymore. Smaller scale on a banjo, and this tuning, seems to work for me. I can't stretch my fingers quickly up and down the neck this allows me to play many tunes using the open, first and third frets. It also allows me an open E drone on tunes like Toss the Feathers.
Tenor string guage tension with odd tuning question
Tenor string guage tension with odd tuning question
From lowest pitch to highest I tune B E A D. If I use 40 30 20 13 guage strings am I putting too much tension on the neck? It's a 19 fret banjo. It's not expensive but I don't want to do anything that will harm it over time.
# Posted on February 11th 2009 by shanty
Re: Tenor string guage tension with odd tuning question
Using Dan's string tension applet at: http://www.pacificsites.net/~dog/StringTensionApplet.html
You have:
Banjo
len 23.0"
D .013" PL == 17.7#
A, .020" NW == 19.88#
E, .030" NW == 25.66#
B,, .040" NW == 24.55#
Total == 87.79#
This is assuming 23" scale, which is about right for 19 frets, and assuming that you're using Nickel strings, with a wound A string... (And assuming you're using the low B above the usual G...)
What this shows is that you have a lot of tension on the B and E strings. 90 pounds of total pressure is not excessive, probably, unless it's a very old, vintage banjo. (My bouzouki has about 235 pounds of tension on the neck, but it is modern, and has a truss rod...) But my Ome banjo only has about 63 pounds of tension on it.
The other thing to consider is that the banjo would sound and feel more balanced if you normalize the tension across all four courses a bit... So something like:
Banjo
len 23.0"
D .013" PL == 17.7#
A, .020" NW == 19.88#
E, .026" NW == 18.87#
B,, .034" NW == 18.04#
Total == 74.49#
# Posted on February 11th 2009 by Reverend
Re: Tenor string guage tension with odd tuning question
Thank you so much! I'll certainly try these guages. I'm still kind of new to tenor banjo (10 months) and am trying to find what works best for me.
# Posted on February 12th 2009 by shanty
Re: Tenor string guage tension with odd tuning question
Are you sure it's not DAEB lowest pitch to highest?
# Posted on February 12th 2009 by grego
Re: Tenor string guage tension with odd tuning question
Reverend, you are amazing! You must have a brain the size of a planet.
But being serious for a moment , as you say,it depends totally on the build and strength of your neck.
# Posted on February 12th 2009 by banjoburger
Re: Tenor string guage tension with odd tuning question
err, yeah, grego, that might make sense, huh? A step above the high tenor tuning CGDA? Which would make it a pretty high and twinkly sounding thing, I would imagine.
But that does bring up the point, shanty, why you wouldn't use GDAE, like the rest of us (minus Gerry O'Connor, who plays CGDA...) Are you playing Irish? If so, then you'll find that GDAE will work well, because it's the same tuning as the fiddle (down an octave). So tunes that sit well on the fiddle generally sit well on the the banjo. Otherwise, you might find yourself having some bloody painful string crossings and strangeness...
Just a thought...
# Posted on February 12th 2009 by Reverend
Re: Tenor string guage tension with odd tuning question
There is a small tradition out there of using DAEB (or CGDA with a capo on the 2nd fret.)
It means you play your tunes a string lower than you would on the GDAE banjo, and don't have to stretch to get the high B.
But you lose out on the sympathetic resonance from the bass G string, the occasional tune note that falls below the D, and the opportunity to substitute the deep bass G for the higher one, once in a while, for effect.
Oh, and transposing tunes down a fifth for a grittier sound like Angelina does sometimes.
# Posted on February 12th 2009 by grego
Re: Tenor string guage tension with odd tuning question
Yeah, I sometimes tune my zouk CGDAD, and capo up to the 7th to play tunes down a course, but still have the high D for accompaniment.
But CGDA tuning, in general, sounds a bit "twinkly" to me.
# Posted on February 12th 2009 by Reverend
Re: Tenor string guage tension with odd tuning question
Been a musician my whole life. Had a stroke at age 32. Blew my hand out. Took up whistle because the movements were 'small' if you will. This was good therapy and as my hand came back, over the years, I moved back to guitar. I can bang out some simple chords in dadgad tuning but not much more than that will I ever play on guitar anymore. Smaller scale on a banjo, and this tuning, seems to work for me. I can't stretch my fingers quickly up and down the neck this allows me to play many tunes using the open, first and third frets. It also allows me an open E drone on tunes like Toss the Feathers.
# Posted on February 13th 2009 by shanty
Re: Tenor string guage tension with odd tuning question
Sorry, meant the open, 2nd, 4th fret. minimal stretching...simple up/down on the fret
# Posted on February 13th 2009 by shanty