I've been taking private lessons recently which has helped my playing tremendously. And I've learned a ton of new chords going all the way up the neck(majors, minors and 7ths). But I'm having a hell of a time trying to figure out the chords to several Old Blind Dogs songs.
My question is; Did Ian Benzie use alternative tunings? Because no matter what I do, I can't seem to get the same tonal quality from the chords I try.
For what it's worth I'm listening to the LIVE album.
Any hints as to what he's doing would be welcome.
I'm not familiar with this group so I can't give you a definitive answer. However, I'd suggest the first thing you try is a capo in standard tuning. This gives the chords a certain "character" as well as simply raising the pitch (preferable to playing barre chords up and down the neck which to my ear sound very un-subtle remember you're backing the melody players not trying to dominate them ).
The next thing to try is drop D tuning - simply lower the 6th, E string to D.
Still doesn't sound right? A very commonly used alternative tuning is DADGAD - great for a droning, modal sound. Of course, both these alternative tunings can be used with a capo to further complicate things...........
Anyway, even if you don't get exactly the right sound you'll have fun and will learn a lot in trying. You might even find a sound you prefer and that then becomes part of your own bag of tricks - your "voice" if you like.
Song is in G. He's playing with a capo on the 7th fret - so you play as if you're in C without the capo. I don't think the 6th string is dropped to D.
If you want to use a drop D tuning for this song you could move the capo the 5th fret and play "as if in D". Then you'd have a nice low G note giving plenty of body to the high register chords.
Check out Steve Cooney, Paul Brady and Arty Glynn for the "benchmark" guitar playing in an Irish context.
From the sound on the video, that dafydd posted, I'm pretty sure he's playing DADGAD (or variation of), and capo on the 5th fret.
There's a definite low G in his bass playing, and he's using his little finger to play the high B noted on the ninth fret, which modifies the G5 drone into Gmaj.
May I suggest that perhaps you are tripping up because of their use of *5th chords. These are missing a note (the 3rd), which makes them neither major or minor, and so have a very adaptable "open" sound. You can find fingerings for standard tuning online for the common ones, but a tuning like DADGAD is better designed to put them easily under your fingers, if that's the sound you are going for.
Here is my suggestion. Learn the tunes in standard tuning before migrating to DADGAD. DADGAD is very modal, and you will not be able to replicate the sounds you are hearing with standard tuning, but you will learn the structure of the music better with standard tuning.
My DADGAD friends tell me that DADGAD is easier than standard tuning (hope I don't get too slammed for saying that), but at this point, I am trying to listen to the tunes and pick the standard tuning chords that fit best. This is helping me train my ear and listen to the tunes.
I don't use the dots, and none of the sessions I play rely on sheet music. I do run a slow session where sheet music is acceptable for a time, and I have a group on Yahoo for that session. If you would like to join the group, email me. When I first started to play, I used sheet music for the chords, and I found that when I focused on sheet music, I did not listen to the tunes, so I pretty much decided to figure it all out by ear.
I am finding the tunes are now playing me rather than the other way around. I hear a tune now, and can tell what key it is in before I start to play it, a real breakthrough for me. Most times I can figure out the chords very quickly, so it is the strumming patterns I focus on the most. It's also important to gain a feel of when not to strum a chord. It's the spaces that you can create as a backer that can really add to a tune.
I stand corrected. The capo is on the 5th fret and it's DADGAD. My suggestion about just dropping the 6th string to D and putting the capo at the 5th fret still stands. You might find this an acceptable substitute if you don't want to dive into DADGAD yet.
My instructor has me using standard tuning and as yet we haven't touched a capo. I do own one however. His idea being, learn how to play without one because they are a crutch. (I'm not completely sold on that "crutch" idea however) Re-tuning to DADGAD is no surprise to get that droning. I just was trying to avoid it if possible.
Oh yeah, my instructor is a blues guy. He just doesn't get my fascination with tunes and old Irish & Scottish folk songs. He thinks he'll convert me. LOL I figure it's just a way to to learn to play guitar. What I do with it afterwards is another deal entirely.
The session I run which he is a part of, is pretty much a blues & American folk session due to who is showing up for it. Though there is some interest in what I enjoy by the bluegrass guys who show up. I think the OBD songs would do well in this session if I can learn them well enough. And teach them to the rest of the gang.
Celtic Guitar, I'm sending you an e-mail. I would like to join your Yahoo group. That would be great! I have been avoiding dots. Too much variation in how songs are played with various keys, modes, ornamentation, etc.
So I guess after I've practiced my "12 bar blues" progressions in E, A and G today, I'll retune to DADGAD, pull out my capo and try again with OBD's LIVE album.
Thank you everyone for the advice. There's so much to learn. It's just been a bit frustrating knowing a gaggle of chords but not knowing any songs.
Mandolin is soooo much easier!!!
here i go again with the usual suggestion of a tuning someone showed me once at a session and that's : CGCGCD
where G is the only unchanged (third) string, i suppose it's similar to DADGAD, bar the end half of notes and being tuned 1 tone lower (=2 frets lower) and someone on the board informed me it's 'Open C Sus 2', someone else saying it's used in blues (?slide - something i havn't tried out yet)
so your 'G Major' here is at Capo 7 or open with an A7 shape + bass at 2nd fret _ use your ear to work the easy chord shapes out
my all time favourite keys of F Minor & Major are Capo 5 position and managable for short bursts without it
CGCGCD is definately a nice tuning and I have used it before for a few songs. It is popular with people like Dougie MacLean and Martin Simpson. It is not a very flexible tuning for accompaniment at all however with too much of a reliance on capos for smooth changes in sets to be realistic and is not exactly set up for the common keys within the music.
The advantage with DADGAD is it is very flexible for playing in lots of keys without the need for a capo as long as you put in the smallest amount of effort. I don't think you can say the same for Csus2.
question for guitarists
question for guitarists
I've been taking private lessons recently which has helped my playing tremendously. And I've learned a ton of new chords going all the way up the neck(majors, minors and 7ths). But I'm having a hell of a time trying to figure out the chords to several Old Blind Dogs songs.
My question is; Did Ian Benzie use alternative tunings? Because no matter what I do, I can't seem to get the same tonal quality from the chords I try.
For what it's worth I'm listening to the LIVE album.
Any hints as to what he's doing would be welcome.
# Posted on February 10th 2009 by Fishmonger
Re: question for guitarists
I'm not familiar with this group so I can't give you a definitive answer. However, I'd suggest the first thing you try is a capo in standard tuning. This gives the chords a certain "character" as well as simply raising the pitch (preferable to playing barre chords up and down the neck which to my ear sound very un-subtle
remember you're backing the melody players not trying to dominate them ).
The next thing to try is drop D tuning - simply lower the 6th, E string to D.
Still doesn't sound right? A very commonly used alternative tuning is DADGAD - great for a droning, modal sound. Of course, both these alternative tunings can be used with a capo to further complicate things...........
Anyway, even if you don't get exactly the right sound you'll have fun and will learn a lot in trying. You might even find a sound you prefer and that then becomes part of your own bag of tricks - your "voice" if you like.
# Posted on February 10th 2009 by SteelPlayer
Re: question for guitarists
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P3-942678511.html
http://www.guitarseminars.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/003740.html
this looks like dropped D to me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-edWt-Vkuo
# Posted on February 10th 2009 by dafydd
Re: question for guitarists
Song is in G. He's playing with a capo on the 7th fret - so you play as if you're in C without the capo. I don't think the 6th string is dropped to D.
If you want to use a drop D tuning for this song you could move the capo the 5th fret and play "as if in D". Then you'd have a nice low G note giving plenty of body to the high register chords.
Check out Steve Cooney, Paul Brady and Arty Glynn for the "benchmark" guitar playing in an Irish context.
# Posted on February 10th 2009 by SteelPlayer
Re: question for guitarists
Sorry that's Arty McGlynn.
# Posted on February 10th 2009 by SteelPlayer
Re: question for guitarists
From the sound on the video, that dafydd posted, I'm pretty sure he's playing DADGAD (or variation of), and capo on the 5th fret.
There's a definite low G in his bass playing, and he's using his little finger to play the high B noted on the ninth fret, which modifies the G5 drone into Gmaj.
May I suggest that perhaps you are tripping up because of their use of *5th chords. These are missing a note (the 3rd), which makes them neither major or minor, and so have a very adaptable "open" sound. You can find fingerings for standard tuning online for the common ones, but a tuning like DADGAD is better designed to put them easily under your fingers, if that's the sound you are going for.
# Posted on February 10th 2009 by ciaranbradley
Re: question for guitarists
Hello Fishmonger,
Here is my suggestion. Learn the tunes in standard tuning before migrating to DADGAD. DADGAD is very modal, and you will not be able to replicate the sounds you are hearing with standard tuning, but you will learn the structure of the music better with standard tuning.
My DADGAD friends tell me that DADGAD is easier than standard tuning (hope I don't get too slammed for saying that), but at this point, I am trying to listen to the tunes and pick the standard tuning chords that fit best. This is helping me train my ear and listen to the tunes.
I don't use the dots, and none of the sessions I play rely on sheet music. I do run a slow session where sheet music is acceptable for a time, and I have a group on Yahoo for that session. If you would like to join the group, email me. When I first started to play, I used sheet music for the chords, and I found that when I focused on sheet music, I did not listen to the tunes, so I pretty much decided to figure it all out by ear.
I am finding the tunes are now playing me rather than the other way around. I hear a tune now, and can tell what key it is in before I start to play it, a real breakthrough for me. Most times I can figure out the chords very quickly, so it is the strumming patterns I focus on the most. It's also important to gain a feel of when not to strum a chord. It's the spaces that you can create as a backer that can really add to a tune.
# Posted on February 10th 2009 by Celtic Guitar
Re: question for guitarists
I stand corrected. The capo is on the 5th fret and it's DADGAD. My suggestion about just dropping the 6th string to D and putting the capo at the 5th fret still stands. You might find this an acceptable substitute if you don't want to dive into DADGAD yet.
# Posted on February 10th 2009 by SteelPlayer
Re: question for guitarists
Never mind what he is playing in the video - that is Jim Malcolm and not Ian Benzie so it does not really help answer the question.
Sorry.
# Posted on February 10th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: question for guitarists
My instructor has me using standard tuning and as yet we haven't touched a capo. I do own one however. His idea being, learn how to play without one because they are a crutch. (I'm not completely sold on that "crutch" idea however) Re-tuning to DADGAD is no surprise to get that droning. I just was trying to avoid it if possible.
I have been avoiding dots. Too much variation in how songs are played with various keys, modes, ornamentation, etc.
Oh yeah, my instructor is a blues guy. He just doesn't get my fascination with tunes and old Irish & Scottish folk songs. He thinks he'll convert me. LOL I figure it's just a way to to learn to play guitar. What I do with it afterwards is another deal entirely.
The session I run which he is a part of, is pretty much a blues & American folk session due to who is showing up for it. Though there is some interest in what I enjoy by the bluegrass guys who show up. I think the OBD songs would do well in this session if I can learn them well enough. And teach them to the rest of the gang.
Celtic Guitar, I'm sending you an e-mail. I would like to join your Yahoo group. That would be great!
So I guess after I've practiced my "12 bar blues" progressions in E, A and G today, I'll retune to DADGAD, pull out my capo and try again with OBD's LIVE album.
Thank you everyone for the advice. There's so much to learn. It's just been a bit frustrating knowing a gaggle of chords but not knowing any songs.
Mandolin is soooo much easier!!!
# Posted on February 10th 2009 by Fishmonger
Re: question for guitarists
here i go again with the usual suggestion of a tuning someone showed me once at a session and that's : CGCGCD
where G is the only unchanged (third) string, i suppose it's similar to DADGAD, bar the end half of notes and being tuned 1 tone lower (=2 frets lower) and someone on the board informed me it's 'Open C Sus 2', someone else saying it's used in blues (?slide - something i havn't tried out yet)
so your 'G Major' here is at Capo 7 or open with an A7 shape + bass at 2nd fret _ use your ear to work the easy chord shapes out
my all time favourite keys of F Minor & Major are Capo 5 position and managable for short bursts without it
# Posted on February 11th 2009 by lisaniska
Re: question for guitarists
CGCGCD is definately a nice tuning and I have used it before for a few songs. It is popular with people like Dougie MacLean and Martin Simpson. It is not a very flexible tuning for accompaniment at all however with too much of a reliance on capos for smooth changes in sets to be realistic and is not exactly set up for the common keys within the music.
The advantage with DADGAD is it is very flexible for playing in lots of keys without the need for a capo as long as you put in the smallest amount of effort. I don't think you can say the same for Csus2.
# Posted on February 11th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: question for guitarists
If you're already a mandolin player why not try DADGAE? The fexibility of DADGAD with the familiarity of sevenths, plus an extra G string.
# Posted on February 11th 2009 by greg sheils