just curious, if somebody could explain briefly the reason why so many tunes are called Humours of.....
Are there particular locations very fond of telling jokes for example
Brendan Breathnach (1996) says the word ‘humours’ in a title denotes character, mood and exuberance of spirit. It has also been described as a whim, fancy or caprice. It is used only in combination with a placename and always precedes it. “The Humours of Dublin” and “The Humours of Billingsgate” can be found in London dance music collections as far back as the mid-18th century.
Jon, if you seriously believe that 'Galenic theories of medicine' are 'still current in much of Ireland', then you're either writing tongue-in-cheek or have never visited a modern Irish Cardiology unit (even though these be few and far between). Please do let us know which Irish medical practitioners remain over-concerned with an excess of various-coloured bile!
Don't worry, tongue was firmly in cheek. As everyone knows the "humours" is a corruption of "humerus", and is a reference to the relics of the various saints to be found in many Irish towns. For some reason, the bone connecting the scapula to the ulna was a very popular one for reliquary purposes, and so it was necessary to distinguish between the "Humerus of Tulla" and the "Humerus of Ennistymon" and so on...
I do know that "rakes" refers to the type of mischievous chaps who might be inclined to wear their caps at a raked angle. You know - the party bhoyos. It is not a reference to lawn and garden equipment.
I think "rigs" refers to a type of land cultivation common in Ireland and Scotland before the 18th and 19th centuries, when eventually the landlord/crofting/feudal (basically) system killed it off. It consisted of ridges and furrows made in the soil, which would be communally owned and maintained by the people of a village. The purpose of it was to maximize crops in rubbish soil (like you get in the Highlands), enough for sustenance for a village but not enough for profit, hence its demise.
BTW, you can see remnants of it. There's a run rig village near Inveraray, set up as a tourist thing but you get the idea, and evidently the furrows and ridges somewhere on the Braid golf course in Edinburgh.
My understanding is that ‘humours’ are the same as ‘essence’.
- The very thing that makes something…what it IS. -
So, “The Humours Of Trim” could also be called “The Essence Of Trim”
(captured in music ??)
A word not often used these days…..except in tune names.
Back, I guess 1700 – 1800, a ‘seer of the future’ would ‘evaluate your humours’
(your essence) and advise you based on that.
If this thread supposed to be about a funny bone--as in a humorous humerus?
If you are unlucky enough to break your humerus, then you will need to get it repaired by the orthodox.
Humor Hu"mor, n. [OE. humour, OF. humor, umor, F. humeur, L.
humor, umor, moisture, fluid, fr. humere, umere, to be moist.
See Humid.] [Written also humour.]
1. Moisture, especially, the moisture or fluid of animal
bodies, as the chyle, lymph, etc.; as, the humors of the
eye, etc.
[1913 Webster]
Note: The ancient physicians believed that there were four
humors (the blood, phlegm, yellow bile or choler, and
black bile or melancholy), on the relative proportion
of which the temperament and health depended.
[1913 Webster]
2. (Med.) A vitiated or morbid animal fluid, such as often
causes an eruption on the skin. "A body full of humors."
--Sir W. Temple.
[1913 Webster]
3. State of mind, whether habitual or temporary (as formerly
supposed to depend on the character or combination of the
fluids of the body); disposition; temper; mood; as, good
humor; ill humor.
[1913 Webster]
Examine how your humor is inclined,
And which the ruling passion of your mind.
--Roscommon.
[1913 Webster]
A prince of a pleasant humor. --Bacon.
[1913 Webster]
I like not the humor of lying. --Shak.
[1913 Webster]
4. pl. Changing and uncertain states of mind; caprices;
freaks; vagaries; whims.
[1913 Webster]
Is my friend all perfection, all virtue and
discretion? Has he not humors to be endured?
--South.
[1913 Webster]
5. That quality of the imagination which gives to ideas an
incongruous or fantastic turn, and tends to excite
laughter or mirth by ludicrous images or representations;
a playful fancy; facetiousness.
[1913 Webster]
For thy sake I admit
That a Scot may have humor, I'd almost said wit.
--Goldsmith.
[1913 Webster]
A great deal of excellent humor was expended on the
perplexities of mine host. --W. Irving.
[1913 Webster]
Well, we've all had a bit of fun with this thread, but now some serious answers:
I have a 1901 paper copy of Chamber's Dictionary, from which I've extracted these definitions:
Humour: The moisture or fluids of animal bodies; an animal fluid in an unhealthy state: state of mind (because once thought to depend on the humours of the body, as "good" or "ill" humour: disposition: caprice: a mental quality which delights in ludicrous and mirthful ideas: playful fancy.
hehheh , "dissolute", funny...
here,s another one
rig- a prank; a mischievous or wanton act
Eric Partridge. A Dictionary of Slang and Uncoventional English 5th ed.
I was thinking it must be a corruption of houmous and came over with the bouzouki, but a quick search reveals a note from Dow about a tune for the bouzouki called "The Houmous Of Tillikrine" so I can't claim any originality for that joke.
Yeah, the term corn stack or corn rig or corn reek might be used for a stack of grain stood to dry - reek though is in same sense as stack.
i.e. The Reek near that emporium of note belonging to a well known flute player in Westport is a large conical mountain otherwise know as Croagh Patrick. Ditto for the Magillycuddy Reeks - mountains near Killarney.
So maybe the rigs referred to in the Rocky Road are more likely to be tricks or jokes.
I go with The Humours meaning the 'style' or 'run' of a place but maybe the essence is not too far off that.
I once camped a night in a field in Tulla. In the evening, I went to the chip/kebab shop in town and was diappointed to find that they did not have houmous.
Jon, can you explain how is apparently not uncommon for three or four (or even more) humeri belonging to the one and same holy saint can be found in reliquaries scattered throughout the length and breadth of Ireland?
Thank you for offering tea but I would prefer a bottle of Shiner Bock.
One of the nurses whom I work with likes to tease me about being a "hatter" because I have to wear a hat when I am outside to protect myself from the sun. No, I am not a crazy "hatter".
"Jon, can you explain how is apparently not uncommon for three or four (or even more) humeri belonging to the one and same holy saint can be found in reliquaries scattered throughout the length and breadth of Ireland?"
Easiest thing in the world, I'm glad you asked. You see, the one is from the saint as a young boy, the other is from his adolescence, and over in Mayo there's one from when he was an old man, and so forth. So simple, isn't it?
Jon, thank you. I think I understand. My biologist friends talk about cellular regeneration, so is this concomitant with the higher levels of sanctity?
Lazyhound, I don't like wearing a tin-foil hat because I don't like getting "foiled" again. Besides, is wearing a tin-foil hat likely to give you tintinnitus?
My psychologist friends have mentioned higher levels of sanity and insanity when talking about mental degeneration. Might this be concomitant with any levels of sanctity? Or would that be a religious problem?
SWFL Fiddler, on another message board, I am known as the Human Player Piano.
The Humours of...?
The Humours of...?
just curious, if somebody could explain briefly the reason why so many tunes are called Humours of.....
Are there particular locations very fond of telling jokes for example
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by BanjoBongo
Re: The Humours of...?
Well, there's the Humours of Teller, obviously, and...
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Here Lyeth
Re: The Humours of...?
It has to do with Galenic theories of medicine still current in much of Ireland...
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: The Humours of...?
could you elaborate on that, Jon?
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Nate Ryan
Re: The Humours of...?
Funny - I've often pondered on that one
... not to mention "rigs" and "rakes" of course ...
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The Humours of...?
Never could figure out how a town had one. Poetic license, I suppose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humorism
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: The Humours of...?
Ooo! That one I know! From the song Lark in the Morning, not the four part jig:
"...one evening coming home from the rakes of the town,
the meadows being all green and the grass it being cut down..."
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: The Humours of...?
http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/HUMOURS_HUMP.htm
Brendan Breathnach (1996) says the word ‘humours’ in a title denotes character, mood and exuberance of spirit. It has also been described as a whim, fancy or caprice. It is used only in combination with a placename and always precedes it. “The Humours of Dublin” and “The Humours of Billingsgate” can be found in London dance music collections as far back as the mid-18th century.
CW - Andrew Kuntz
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Nico
Re: The Humours of...?
See this thread - http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/2910.
Jon, if you seriously believe that 'Galenic theories of medicine' are 'still current in much of Ireland', then you're either writing tongue-in-cheek or have never visited a modern Irish Cardiology unit (even though these be few and far between). Please do let us know which Irish medical practitioners remain over-concerned with an excess of various-coloured bile!
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by MacCruiskeen
Re: The Humours of...?
Don't worry, tongue was firmly in cheek. As everyone knows the "humours" is a corruption of "humerus", and is a reference to the relics of the various saints to be found in many Irish towns. For some reason, the bone connecting the scapula to the ulna was a very popular one for reliquary purposes, and so it was necessary to distinguish between the "Humerus of Tulla" and the "Humerus of Ennistymon" and so on...
(sorry, I'll quit now)
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: The Humours of...?
I do know that "rakes" refers to the type of mischievous chaps who might be inclined to wear their caps at a raked angle. You know - the party bhoyos. It is not a reference to lawn and garden equipment.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: The Humours of...?
I think "rigs" refers to a type of land cultivation common in Ireland and Scotland before the 18th and 19th centuries, when eventually the landlord/crofting/feudal (basically) system killed it off. It consisted of ridges and furrows made in the soil, which would be communally owned and maintained by the people of a village. The purpose of it was to maximize crops in rubbish soil (like you get in the Highlands), enough for sustenance for a village but not enough for profit, hence its demise.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: The Humours of...?
BTW, you can see remnants of it. There's a run rig village near Inveraray, set up as a tourist thing but you get the idea, and evidently the furrows and ridges somewhere on the Braid golf course in Edinburgh.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: The Humours of...?
http://tinyurl.com/8ekwn7
"Spending faster than it comes,
Beating waiters, baliffs, duns,
Bacchus's true begotten sons,
Live the rakes of Mallow..."
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: The Humours of...?
"There's a run rig village near Inveraray"
Between Inverary and Furnace in Argyll, but nearer Furnace. It's called Auchindrain, and is well worth a visit!
http://www.auchindrain-museum.org.uk/
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by On Sabbatical
Re: The Humours of...?
A perfect example SWFL - Long live the rakes of Tampa!?!
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: The Humours of...?
Indeed Jusa! Got my wool cap cocked right today.
Heck, it's actually cold enough to wear the thing for a change. Going down to the low 40s F tonight. Could be some frost on the oranges!
[ducks and runs for cover] [mtodd said it'll be -25C in Toronto tomorrow...]
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: The Humours of...?
Silver Spear - to quote two lines from the penultimate verse of that well-known song. "The Rocky Road Road to Dublin":
"Down among the pigs, played some hearty rigs,
Danced some hearty jigs, the water round me bubblin' ..."
So, if "rigs" refers to a type of land cultivation as you maintain, how could you be playing them?
I believe that that type of land culitivation to which you refer is noted on UK Ordnance Survey maps as "Strip Lynchets" or "Field System".
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The Humours of...?
.... Whack, fal lol de da!
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The Humours of...?
Banjobongo - explain "briefy" was your plea ...
... 18 posts sof far, and we still don't really have the answer ...
... sorry, 9 now ..
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The Humours of...?
sorry again I meant 19. oops - 20.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The Humours of...?
No answers, but at least it was humourous. [groan]
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: The Humours of...?
My understanding is that ‘humours’ are the same as ‘essence’.
- The very thing that makes something…what it IS. -
So, “The Humours Of Trim” could also be called “The Essence Of Trim”
(captured in music ??)
A word not often used these days…..except in tune names.
Back, I guess 1700 – 1800, a ‘seer of the future’ would ‘evaluate your humours’
(your essence) and advise you based on that.
J
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Fr.Jack
Re: The Humours of...?
If this thread supposed to be about a funny bone--as in a humorous humerus?
If you are unlucky enough to break your humerus, then you will need to get it repaired by the orthodox.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: The Humours of...?
Hmmm, I always thought "humours" meant fluids or vapours... fogs or mists, as in the "mists of ennistymon" etc. I have no idea whether that's right.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by buttons 'n' whistles
Re: The Humours of...?
I dunno, Mix, maybe they couldn't think of another word to rhyme with "pigs" and "jigs?"
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: The Humours of...?
Oh fauxcelt, and I thought mine was groan inducing. Whew.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: The Humours of...?
Nico has answered the question for you above, Mix
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Hup
Re: The Humours of...?
Maybe yes, Hup.
But what about those rigs?
Do you play 'em - or plough 'em?
I the latter is true, maybe some rakes would be useful as well?
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The Humours of...?
Humor Hu"mor, n. [OE. humour, OF. humor, umor, F. humeur, L.
humor, umor, moisture, fluid, fr. humere, umere, to be moist.
See Humid.] [Written also humour.]
1. Moisture, especially, the moisture or fluid of animal
bodies, as the chyle, lymph, etc.; as, the humors of the
eye, etc.
[1913 Webster]
Note: The ancient physicians believed that there were four
humors (the blood, phlegm, yellow bile or choler, and
black bile or melancholy), on the relative proportion
of which the temperament and health depended.
[1913 Webster]
2. (Med.) A vitiated or morbid animal fluid, such as often
causes an eruption on the skin. "A body full of humors."
--Sir W. Temple.
[1913 Webster]
3. State of mind, whether habitual or temporary (as formerly
supposed to depend on the character or combination of the
fluids of the body); disposition; temper; mood; as, good
humor; ill humor.
[1913 Webster]
Examine how your humor is inclined,
And which the ruling passion of your mind.
--Roscommon.
[1913 Webster]
A prince of a pleasant humor. --Bacon.
[1913 Webster]
I like not the humor of lying. --Shak.
[1913 Webster]
4. pl. Changing and uncertain states of mind; caprices;
freaks; vagaries; whims.
[1913 Webster]
Is my friend all perfection, all virtue and
discretion? Has he not humors to be endured?
--South.
[1913 Webster]
5. That quality of the imagination which gives to ideas an
incongruous or fantastic turn, and tends to excite
laughter or mirth by ludicrous images or representations;
a playful fancy; facetiousness.
[1913 Webster]
For thy sake I admit
That a Scot may have humor, I'd almost said wit.
--Goldsmith.
[1913 Webster]
A great deal of excellent humor was expended on the
perplexities of mine host. --W. Irving.
[1913 Webster]
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Ramiro
Re: The Humours of...?
Corn rigs?
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by pipewatcher
Re: The Humours of...?
Well, we've all had a bit of fun with this thread, but now some serious answers:
I have a 1901 paper copy of Chamber's Dictionary, from which I've extracted these definitions:
Humour: The moisture or fluids of animal bodies; an animal fluid in an unhealthy state: state of mind (because once thought to depend on the humours of the body, as "good" or "ill" humour: disposition: caprice: a mental quality which delights in ludicrous and mirthful ideas: playful fancy.
Rake: A dissolute person, a libertine.
Rig: a frolic or trick.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The Humours of...?
That's an interesting thought, pipes!
... back to my old Chamber's dictionary ...
One definition that it gives for "rig" is "ridge" (Scottish).
... so maybe "ridges of corn"
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The Humours of...?
hehheh , "dissolute", funny...
here,s another one
rig- a prank; a mischievous or wanton act
Eric Partridge. A Dictionary of Slang and Uncoventional English 5th ed.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by pipewatcher
Re: The Humours of...?
my thought was that it may be related to "rick", as a hay-rick
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by pipewatcher
Re: The Humours of...?
I was thinking it must be a corruption of houmous and came over with the bouzouki, but a quick search reveals a note from Dow about a tune for the bouzouki called "The Houmous Of Tillikrine" so I can't claim any originality for that joke.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by RichardB
Re: The Humours of...?
Maybe yours is a better explanation, Pipes.
Especially as "Corn Rigs" is also known as "Corn Reeks".
i.e. Reeks ~ = Ricks.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The Humours of...?
Yeah, the term corn stack or corn rig or corn reek might be used for a stack of grain stood to dry - reek though is in same sense as stack.
i.e. The Reek near that emporium of note belonging to a well known flute player in Westport is a large conical mountain otherwise know as Croagh Patrick. Ditto for the Magillycuddy Reeks - mountains near Killarney.
So maybe the rigs referred to in the Rocky Road are more likely to be tricks or jokes.
I go with The Humours meaning the 'style' or 'run' of a place but maybe the essence is not too far off that.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by the wounded hussar
Re: The Humours of...?
that's my take on Humours. The impression or feeling you get from someplace- or some thing as in the Humours of Whiskey!
cheers, pipewatcher
(33)
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by pipewatcher
Re: The Humours of...?
It's a corruptioun of 'houmous' - an echo of the Celts' ancient Middle Eastern origins.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: The Humours of...?
I've always thought of 'The humours of..' as 'The spirits of...
In Norwegian the word humør is in daily use and to have a good "humør" means to be well-balanced or in good spirits.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by FiddleTramp
Re: The Humours of...?
Same goes for "humor" in Spanish.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Ramiro
Re: The Humours of...?
it means the tune isnt to be taken seriously!!!!
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Cradinski
Re: The Humours of...?
Don't take any of them too seriously ...
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: The Humours of...?
Hmmmm... Houmous...or is hummus.. the Hummus of Tulla
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: The Humours of...?
Mmm...hummus...
http://tinyurl.com/2x8qjx
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: The Humours of...?
I once camped a night in a field in Tulla. In the evening, I went to the chip/kebab shop in town and was diappointed to find that they did not have houmous.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: The Humours of...?
Sorry, chickpea lovers, but Sin É beat you to it - http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/2881.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by MacCruiskeen
Re: The Humours of...?
You're welcome, SWFL Fiddler. I was merely trying to "humor" you as I thought we were supposed to do with someone who is crazy.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: The Humours of...?
Jon, can you explain how is apparently not uncommon for three or four (or even more) humeri belonging to the one and same holy saint can be found in reliquaries scattered throughout the length and breadth of Ireland?
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: The Humours of...?
Mad, fc, like a hatter. Who wants some tea? MOVE DOWN!
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: The Humours of...?
Thank you for offering tea but I would prefer a bottle of Shiner Bock.
One of the nurses whom I work with likes to tease me about being a "hatter" because I have to wear a hat when I am outside to protect myself from the sun. No, I am not a crazy "hatter".
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: The Humours of...?
It's only worrying when you start wearing the tin-foil hat.
# Posted on January 16th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: The Humours of...?
...and a very merry un-birthday to both of you!
Strangely enough, on another message board I am known as "TheMadFiddler" so...there you have it.
CLEAN CUP! MOVE DOWN!
# Posted on January 16th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: The Humours of...?
"Jon, can you explain how is apparently not uncommon for three or four (or even more) humeri belonging to the one and same holy saint can be found in reliquaries scattered throughout the length and breadth of Ireland?"
Easiest thing in the world, I'm glad you asked. You see, the one is from the saint as a young boy, the other is from his adolescence, and over in Mayo there's one from when he was an old man, and so forth. So simple, isn't it?
# Posted on January 16th 2009 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: The Humours of...?
Jon, thank you. I think I understand. My biologist friends talk about cellular regeneration, so is this concomitant with the higher levels of sanctity?
# Posted on January 16th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: The Humours of...?
Lazyhound, I don't like wearing a tin-foil hat because I don't like getting "foiled" again. Besides, is wearing a tin-foil hat likely to give you tintinnitus?
My psychologist friends have mentioned higher levels of sanity and insanity when talking about mental degeneration. Might this be concomitant with any levels of sanctity? Or would that be a religious problem?
SWFL Fiddler, on another message board, I am known as the Human Player Piano.
# Posted on January 16th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: The Humours of...?
Does this thread tickle your "funny" bone? No, on second thought, your humerus is another bone.
# Posted on January 16th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: The Humours of...?
For all you Bristolians- apparently 'The Humours of Ennistymon' has the alternative title 'The Butchers of Bristol'. Go figure!
# Posted on January 17th 2009 by Here Lyeth