I recently heard of a "slow session", in Glasgow I think, where the speed is deliberately kept down, and participants can agree in advance which new tunes to work up for the following week, thereby developing a repetoire. Is there anything similar in London, and does anyone have feedback from similar events elsewhere - eg it doesn't work, or it works, but not in a pub.
I think any session where you play everything slow would be about as dull as any session where you played everthing fast.
But the real point I think (and I know I'lll get some stick for this) is that why would you want to play everthing slow all night? Surely even beginners can play the odd tune quite fast? Why limmit yourselves to the lowest common denominator in your group?
Being out in a good session is about experiencing the whole breadth of the music, from accomodating a steady rendition of the lark in the morning through to racey 25mins sets of reels. You should need and want to sit with players you regard as better than you as often as you can. Why waste time plodding in your own little cleek of "newbies"? You'll think you're playing is coming along nicely, but sit in a proper sassion and you'll soon realise it aint.
You'll get more out of going to listen & record to great players in a session that you have no hope of playing at. Then you can work on the music at home.
Sitting in a room with 10 other beginers trying to sort it out can be morally encouraging, but it's easy to not push yourself.
I think it helps to have a good, experienced player leading it. I agree that a slow session attended only by beginners can lead to the PBS - Perpetual Beginner Syndrome. But if some altruistic soul helps lead the session they can push people along and give newbies a good introduction to the music.
Sure, beginners probably could play some tunes up to speed, but they'd be sloppy as hell. The last thing they need is to learn bad habits. It's like asking them to pop wheelies before they know how to ride a bike.
That being said, I don't think a slow session is for everybody. It can be a crutch and some people just take better to being thrown in over their heads. That's certainly been what I've done. I'm glad newbies (or people learning a new instrument) have the opportunity to do slow sessions, though, it's certainly shouldn't be the only exposure people have to the music. They should also listen to recordings and go to advanced sessions just to listen.
There is a sort of "half-way house" to the slow session format, which I sometimes do in the Aberdeen "Globe" session. It comes after the classes of the "Scottish Culture And Traditions" group - "SCAT" for short, which was modelled on Edinburgh's "Adult Learning Project", and obviously includes a lot of learners. I'll start off a tune steadily, (rather than slowly), and play it through twice. I then lift the pace a bit, and play it twice again at a speed more approaching "session" speed. Some players will lose it, but I think it's worthwhile pushing them that wee bit, and they seem to appreciate the challenge.
A session where everything is played slowly would be very boring, especially for those listening, and don't forget that if your session is in a pub, you'll probably have an audience of some sort.
I agree with the above comments from the 3 contributers - you can always learn something by watching and listening to better players, even if you don't play a note all night.
Any good session will welcome a newcomer, and if a new player has the gumption to say "Can we play this tune at my speed tonight" it would be a pretty poor company of players who refused.
I'm still trying to figure this one out. If you don't go to the real thing, you never get a feel for the energy of the music. If you are just a beginner, a regular session is hopelessly intimidating. But what do you do with the folks that are really quite competent in a musicianly (new word!!) sort of way, just afraid to get away from the dots and trust their ears?
If you don't have a bunch of players with a set of tunes in common, then how do you develop a session without sitting down and plodding through tunes until you get a critical mass of players who can drag the others along with them? But it's like pulling teeth to wean people from sheet music!
In another thread, someone mentioned that they gave everyone in the slow session a tape with a set of standard tunes played at slow speed and then normal speed. Maybe do that and then lie and say there is no sheet music for the tunes......
I can't imagine doing a slow session at a pub, since the first few times through a new tune would be pretty grim, and it's hard to hear all the diddley-dees over the general hubub.
Random thoughts from the Batlady, out in the hinterlands....
Paul, I help run a regular weekly session and a monthly slow session (in Montana, not London, sorry). The slow session helps people learn new tunes and gives newbies a chance to ask questions about technique, the tradition, etiquette, and the tunes themselves. We focus on tunes that get played at the regular session--this encourages players to participate at the regualr session, rather than clinging to the slow session.
Players of all levels come to our slow session because the crack is good (the mark of any good session), it's a good way to learn new tunes, and people here enjoy *contributing* to the music, not just digging for what they can take out of it. In other words, some experienced players show up because they enjoy helping newcomers.
When learning a tune, we play it at a crawl, phrase by phrase, until everyone's on board. But we also play "last month's tune" at a more lively tempo, and we might play some sets at regular session speed. So "slow" session is a bit of a misnomer--it's more of a *learning* session--but "slow" is what attracts many beginners who are otherwise rattled by the pace of a full-on session.
This format has helped keep our regular session fresh--we've brought in new tunes, new players, and instruments (flute, small pipes, bouzouki) to the circle. Knowing they'll actually get to play out, the slow session folks do more woodshedding during the week, so they're improving faster than they did without the slow sesh. It also helps them to be better listeners at regular sessions when they don't know the tunes or can't keep up with the pace.
Good luck finding a healthy slow sesh in London....
Kenny, your 'halfway house' approach seems to be a reasonable one: do you do this on a regular basis (like monthly)? Do the folks in the SCAT classes all learn the same set of tunes before they come to you? Are they total beginners on their instruments or not? Do you meet in a classroom situation or in a pub? Am I hijacking this thread? Inquiring minds want to know.....
P.S. Our slow sesh happens at people's homes so we can crawl in private--that's easier on the newbies and pub punters alike. But we publicize it during our regular sesh and use an email list to spread the word.
Also, some people do use the dots to get the tunes in their heads, but our slow sesh mostly runs on ear. We encourage people to bring tape or mini-disk recorders. As a memory aid, we've got a three-volume set of over 1,000 tunes, the bulk of which get played at our regular session.
Oh, and all of this runs on the generosity of the more experienced players. Which, to me, is what the music is all about.
The batlady says that a regular session is "hopelessly" intimidating to a biginner. Intimidating, yes, but hopeless? This is just the kind of negativity I'm always complaining about. "Winge, winge, oh I'll never be able to do that."
The truth is that you all try too hard because you think it's hard. You give yourselves little hurdles to jump over; you pat yourselves on the back when do a fiddley twiddley bit you couldn't do before, then off you skip, nervously to the next barrier.
The SCAT session happens every Tuesday in "The Globe"(a pub, - it was posted in the session listings a few weeks back) -whether the classes are taking place or not. It can be very busy when the classes are on, quieter between the terms, but we do try to keep it going over the year. There has never been much co-ordination between the tutors in terms of a common repertoire, unfortunately, although it has been discussed many times. Melody instruments taught are fiddles and whistles, and there are "mixed instrument" classes too. The session happens after the "Intermediate" level classes, so, no,- there aren't any complete beginners, (although to be honest, some are pretty close!). It does resemble a slow session quite often, but it depends who turns up. It is an open session , and is not just restricted to SCAT students. There is quite a lot of Scottish music, - which is what the organisation is about , anyway. Standard of Irish playing is not high. Visitors are always welcome - but you might want to contact me first!
The slow/fast thing is just something which occurred to me a few months ago. I might do it three or four times in a night, if it seems to me that some players are being side-lined, but it largely depends on which musicians happen to be in. I don't like players being left out, especially if they're learning and are keen, and that can happen occasionally.
I'm just off to our monthly slow session. Like Will's, this is held in a house (owned by a generous 'sponsor') - this time in the wilds of the Fife / Perthshire border in Scotland.
We tend to work off a fairly standard but large repertoire, developing more tunes, trying different types etc. Good crowd and very democratic. Not for everyone, but so far, (after about three years), no major disagreements, and for those who feel they don't get enough out of it, well they just join in the regular sessions and give this a miss.
The slow session caters for all sorts (and a very wide age spread) from near beginners (similar to Kenny's description) to musicians trying to learn a different instrument etc. It's amazing how some of the regular players have developed their technique, tune knowledge and confidence to attend never mind participate in a more regular session. Towards the end of the evening the tempo tends to pick up on tunes we've worked on previous nights.
I also give standard private violin / fiddle lessons and it's questionable which is the more effective learning session, at least for tunes.
While agreeing with many of the above comments about not wanting to foster a terminally slow session, and appreciating the need to throw oneself in at the deep end, I must sympathise with Paul Farrow's wish to have a slow session to go to. If, like me, you have very close parametres around your musical ability, picking tunes up as they whizz past you at breakneck speed is a bit like trying to jump onto an express train. It's also nerve wracking. I'm sure if it were a regular affair, or your only session, it would indeed have a detrimental effect on your playing. But as an occassional forum for meeting other less accomplished players surely it has a place. Paul, I reckon your best bet is to find a posse of like-minded souls and commandeer a pub! I'm with you on this one mate! Drop me an email and let's round up a herd of London's arthritic wristed, short breathed, tone deaf, terminally daunted traditional musicians.
I think Gill's responses to Paul and Batlady are evidence enough of why some people would enjoy going to a more tolerant, generous-of-spirit learning session. In large part, that's what thesession.org used to be. I for one am disappointed that this site is losing many knowledgeable, helpful, people--players who contribute a lot to the craic, music, and information--because they're tired of the pissy fits of a few people (who contribute little that's worthwhile).
I must say that I agree with Will and his approach, while recognizing that Michael G., in his own inimitable way, might have been trying to sound encouraging. In Toronto, we're blessed with a wide variety of sessions and venues, from slower, learning-oriented sessions (most of which happen in people's homes or in small rooms at a local social club, and some of which are sponsored by Comhaltas Ceoltiori Eireann) through intermediate sessions to the barnburner's at the Dora Keogh. I don't think I would have learned as much as I have so quickly were it not for all three varieties.
Limiting yourself to the lowest common denominator in the group for a night or two each month helps the lowest common denominator to rise. Considering that I was that once, I feel it's only common decency to return the favour.
Meanwhile, as Michael G. suggests, it might be useful to eschew words like "hopeless" and "intimidating" in favour of different words like "ambitious" and "challenging".
Correct tempo for my little uns, one tick per
3 notes(Jig) @70 - 90 BPM and the 4 note CT types
(Reelpipe)two ticks for 4 notes - (bare bones here).
Student Fiddle Bows must travel down at Note
3 in the CC4/4 model but travel up for 4/12. It is
not rocket science to then calculate that the downbows
must be very quick while the ups are fairly slow.
4/12 3 4/12 etc
In triple meter where 3 1/8 notes stand, slurr
the first two, bow the last AND if - very common in
old Irish music- there is next a 1/4 treat that with
the same bowing as the first two notes - where next
is most often found the 1/8 note which must now
be drawn with a faster bow; finaly the last of these
dancephrases is often written as a dotted 1/4 which is best
played with the slower up followed by a quickdown
bow - making it into a 1/4 and 1/8.
The effect in both cases is the unrelenting down bow
at the UPbeat where a novice may become quickly
adept at dance bowing and thus the sooner to graduate
to playing the more demanding crooked pieces so
often played for the seated audience - which BTW does
not have to dance for I fear if they did then
injuries must surely follow.
Huffing on the shtick is the same thing - though
I would not want to say (here) where to do that ...lol
Oh, I don't disagree with Gill, Will; I'm a believer in the idea that you just roll up your sleeves, wade in there and have a sense on humor (and proportion) about the whole thing. And I have also watched some new players say how they can't get tunes by ear, (too hard...) but then find out that they can get in a note now and then. We are taught to passively sit by and listen to music as background noise (pop in a cd, turn on the radio) but not to really listen and participate. Therefore it is "hard" or, unfortunately for many, "too hard" and they miss out on a lot of pleasure, just playing with the rest of us enthusiastic scrapers. So if you can keep people playing long enough to finally get it, then you have more friends to play with. (And more people to help pay for the beer ;-] )
And, thanks, Zina, for the note--you hit it dead on: if you try too hard too fast, it can be very discouraging, because you don't really have the chops yet. This is all about having a good time, after all. That's why we put in the long hours to learn to play the devil's box (or whatever)
I ran a "slow session" (really more of a teaching session) in Bloomington, IN for 4 years before moving away. That was with the express purpose of providing beginning and intermediate players a jump-start at how to learn repertoire by ear, because there were several first-class sessions in town for which the beg/int players were not sufficiently prepared. In the event, having a teaching session (mostly dedicated to learning repertoire) took pressure off the full-tilt sessions and everybody benefited: beg/int players who were dedicated could build their repertoires and ability to function at real-session speed, and the advanced players could play the way they wanted in the full-tilt session. No one was shortchanged.
After moving to W TX in Aug 2000, and discovering very little in the way of Irtrad activities, I decided to put the same template into play. My "slow session" (again, really a teaching-repertoire session) runs 1x/week 4-6pm at a local community center. Admission is free, because (a) most of my music and martial teachers passed on the teachings to me for free and (b) I have found that introducing a fee into the equation sets up a buyer-and-seller vibe between students and teacher that I don't like.
Tunes are taught strictly by ear--I've spent a lot of time working out methods, many derived from jazz teachers I've known, for teaching aural skills. Also, there is no presumption that someone attending a single time must consider her-/himself permanently committed.
Resulting from that, we have a pretty good int/adv pub session as well, liaison with local stepdance school and teacher, house parties, lots of service performances (schools, hospitals, nursing homes), local public radio and television exposure and support, and a scene that folks from elsewhere in the southwest travel too because of the good vibe.
My observations from this are as follows:
1) Players trying to learn this music in a vacuum (e.g., without direct contact with a lineage-holding master player) tend (a) to learn a lot of bad habits and (b) to sense, if only intuitively, that it doesn't "feel right".
2) If you have or want to develop advanced players, you need a full-tilt session: as a forum for the advanced players, as a benchmark for the beg/int players, as a good source of public outreach and audience development.
3) If you have beg/int players and want to keep them (a) motivated and (b) from mucking up the full-tilt session, it pays to provide an outside forum at which they can develop skills and a healthy (humble) attitude about what it takes to play this music right.
4) Having a regular (ideally weekly) teaching session provides, over the course of a year, literally hundreds of hours at which beg/int players can be exposed not only to tunes, but also correct playing techniques, lore of the music, insights into how/why the music's society works the way it does, and so on. Thus, one can give beg/int players a lot of coaching into repertoire, performance practice, and behavior, without putting it in some kind of prescriptive "rules" format.
I would not describe a teaching session as the only or the best way to build a scene in isolation--that is, in the absence of an existing local Irtrad music scene or support network--but it's worked for us, in several different contexts and situations. I'm also starting to export this idea to other situations through a non-profit Internet start-up. It's working.
I'm the one with a slow session that comes with four 90 minute cassettes filled with tunes. I love my slow session, but we don't always play slow. We start slow with new tunes, or tunes some of the less frequent visitors haven't played in a while, then we pick up the temp to session speed or near session speed depending on how we're doing. It's really a lot like a group lesson.
We play in the basement of a church - which I consider a good place for such an event and not in a pub (unless it had a back room we could be banished to!). I'm up to 22 or 23 tunes at speed, and I'm getting ready to join in a local "real" session soon.
So, done right, it's great. When I'm good enough, I hope to be able to continue the tradition myself...
To Michael Gill, Pied Piper, and slowfingers --- in case you didn't manage to see my recent posting on the "Nutters" thread, I thought youse may be interested to read it here:
You can tell the Real Nutters on this site, usually because their spelling, grammar and syntax is appalling. They tend to be overfocussed, imbalanced, autistic, or at least Asperger's syndrome types, who don't mind taking some wierd controversial stance on a topic and sticking to it, despite popular concensus or normal rational thinking.
And they tend not to have any sensibility to other people's feelings, preferring to be the big champion, victorious over some trivial point, whilst having slagged down some 15-year-old newbie to the site, to score a little on-line victory, thus scaring off a young person forever. But remorse of any kind is never in their vocabulary. The Nazi Party was full of these one-dimensional freaks.
That's not denying they may well be talented musicians, but given the choice, I'd rather be a not-bad musician, but a good bloke, ie be a good dad to the weans and have friends from several different areas of my life, than be some screwed-up tortured stamp-collector-type Irish music Geek.
I know we've been over this subject loads and loads and loads of times before. I think if you want to go to slow session thats fine, but like the first few comments, make sure you dont get stuck there. I never went to any slow session - not saying I'm a great player - but I can hold my own in a session. I dont think it did me any harm not going to slow sessions, In fact I think it made me more determined to learn faster.
I have to confess to having had a bit of a rethink on the subject of Slow Sessions. The idea used to be anathema to me. They sort of seemed to miss the point and be contrary to what I thought of as being the spirit of session playing. But of course, here in Merrie England, we actually have many slow sessions, which can be places where people can go to build up an initial repertoire, and confidence. They just aren't labelled as Slow Sessions, in fact they aren't so much Slow, as LOW. So stuff might be played fast, but usually in a wobbly fashion. They have a common repertoire influenced mainly by Steeleye Span and Fairport Convention records, and still play the sets off those 1970s records. And they mix up those tunes with common English dance tunes like The Galopede and Morpeth Rant etc. I used to think that these events were unique to this part of the country, but I've spoken to people from all over who describe identical sessions, right down to the way certain sets are played, and the grumpy melodian player in the corner who thinks Irish tunes are boring, and who just wants to play Morris tunes in G...
You might think that these sessions might not be as useful as the well structured Slow Sessions described above, but to my mind they have two major things going for them.
One is that they are in pubs, not hidden away from public view in the basement of a Church or whatever, so you are forced to take responsibility for your musical actions - people (might) be listening!
Two is that anyone with any gumption and genuine interest in Irish music will soon seek out a proper session!
However, I am aware that in many parts of the world, the weird and wonderful range of musical events we have here are not available, and Learning Sessions sound like a good idea. Maybe they would attract less suspicion and approbrium if they were described as Group Lessons rather than Slow Sessions?
From the above postings, anyone would think that it is sheer speed that gives Irish Traditional Music its charm and popularity. It is certainly not.
It is a whole range of features that makes ITM worthwhile. These would be almost impossible to list, but they are to do with the features of the compositions themselves (e.g intervals, key etc), the skill and artistry of the player, enjoyment for listeners and players, a sense of community in the session environment...
It is a genre of music that, in my view, can hold its own against any other genre (at its best). However, in sessions you mainly *don't* hear it at its best because people are preoccupied with playing too fast.
There are some tunes that deserve to be murdered by being played at very high speeds because they are not designed for discerning players or listeners. Fine - our heart rates increase, the tune is agreeable to the ear, we go a little tribal and we order another drink at the bar.
Other tunes are too good to be destroyed in this way, and it breaks my heart sometimes to hear such tunes being played without the craftmanship they deserve, just because everyone knows it and is able to play the basic version at high speed.
(The Star of Munster is one example of a tune that has a song-like melody that is almost always butchered and hacked at. I will have to check my facts at the Coleman Festival next week, but I believe it was composed by one of the famous Sligo fiddlers as a result of rejection in love. He played it constantly for three or so months, and did not play any other tune in that time. There are hundreds of tunes that have this lyrical quality that are played too fast to be properly enjoyed and appreciated.)
Like tunes, sessions benefit from variation/variety. Tunes should be played at speeds that are appropriate, so there ought to be changes of pace, and variation in the kind of tunes chosen.
And *regardless of pace*, all dance tunes should be exactly that - tunes that you would want to dance to. That doesn't mean "break-neck" - that means "with lift".
Experienced players ought to be able to take the pace down, and still play with danceability and lift. Inexperienced players should concentrate on playing with lift from the outset.
I was most amused by that aspergers site. I particularly liked the "sympton" ...
"A preoccupation with a restricted pattern of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus."
No one would deny that diddly music is not a restricted pattern of interest, and that to be any good at it you have to give it an abnormal amount of focus. But the attitude you take to this focus will determine whether you turn into one of Danny's perfectly described "screwed-up tortured stamp-collector-type Irish music Geek".
Take it easy, don't torture yourself with technical hurdles, and never, ever, ever, even estimate how many tunes you know, let alone count them.
Not sure which slow session in Glasgow you mean, but it may be the one I run. This slow session is a bit different from other open sessions in that it is affiliated to the Glasgow Fiddle Workshop, and happens after our Wednesday night classes in Laurie's (King St). The point of this is to encourage less confident players to come along and basically get the session bug and get their fiddle out and have a go. I think some people who have recently started find the prospect of joining in a session or even playing a tune in public anywhere very daunting, and once this barrier is broken, may find that they enjoy it. Also most sessions are completely inaccessible to less experienced musicians as the tunes race along at breakneck speed a lot of the time. Depends where you go really. So the majority of weeks the people who come to this session are only members of the workshop, although we have recently had a few guitarists join in which is great. The session is not without its problems though.
I feel very strongly that it is really not fair to have complete beginners try to play a tune in a public bar with other people there trying to have a quiet drink. That is not me slagging off beginners, but we all know how we sounded when we were learning. The good thing about Laurie's is that they have a back room where we can play and not disturb punters at the same time. Not quite the same atmosphere but you have to start somewhere. I also find that we sometimes have a few problems with session etiquette, as most of the people there do not go to any sessions apart from this one and therefore do not pick up on things to bear in mind in order to be a considerate session member. That is quite hard for me to encourage. The session is different every night, really depending on who turns up. I try to operate a circle format where everyone is given the chance to start a tune and everyone else plays it at their speed. Again, this can be a bit frustrating for the better players, as the urge to play things up to speed can sometimes get too much! If there are more less experienced players there, I can often feel guilty and self concious playing my own stuff up tempo, but basically need a few proper sets during the evening to stop me from feeling fed up. Some people there also tend to be reluctant to suggest tunes, which can also be difficult, but I am hoping that will come. We tend to have a core list of sets that we play which are very well known, but can become a bit tedious. So I try and fling in a bit of new stuff every so often. Does anyone else have similar problems with slow sessions?
This one certainly seems to have struck a chord, and a variety of opinion. Of course I recognise the "just go to a really good session" viewpoint - that's what we are all aiming at - but my idea is how to get there, and have some fun along the way. I've got a couple of interested parties already for a London slow session. My idea is to try a pub in Camden (North-west London) for an evening early in the week, publicise it a bit and see who turns up. We could establish a rough repetoire from what we already know, and work at filling in the gaps. I am not saying this from a position of musical leadership, but rather from organising it. FYI I have been playing the Anglo concertina for 18 months. Any more thoughts?
I have been there once or twice and quite enjoyed the atmosphere. It's not all slow music and the more experienced musicians usually have the opportunity for a "real tune" as the evening goes on. The good thing is that this session is led by Nigel as there's nothing worse than a hotch potch of inexperienced musicians stopping and starting all the time with the fast tunes played too slow and the slow tunes speeded up.
Although I would encourage everyone to attend "proper sessions", there is a place for slow sessions. They are good for learning new tunes even if you are an experienced player-especially with Nigel as he chooses more unusual material as opposed to the old warhorses. It also gives you a chance to practice more subtle variations and techniques on your chosen instrument rather than just "keeping up".
The "Irish session" , as we know it, is a fairly new phenomenon, in any case, although there has always been situations where people have got together for a song and tune. In the old days, there would have been a mixture of styles and abilities where everyone would have been given a chance and encouragement from the more experienced players.
For those of you against slow session, and I agree perpetually staying at a slow session level isn't a great way to improve your playing (but it is a great way to learn some tunes you're not familiar with), let me suggest an analogy.
Some folks learn to swim by just jumping in the water. While this can, and does work for some folks, others drown. Now, where I live the main body of water is the Missouri river. Artificially deepened for barges, it's naturally fast with wicked undertows. Anyone who can't swim has a tendency to be sucked beneath the water and never come up...this is not a good place to just jump in and learn to swim...it would be much better to find a nice pool or pond and learn there first.
The same is true of the slow session if you have no experience with sessions. I think it can be great, and they can keep the newcomer who comes in knowing no tunes from giving up in despair. I've been able to learn all about session etiquite, tune history, simply picking up new tunes, and it's lead by a very good flute player so I'm getting free lessions essentially!
I think trying to play at a session if you don't know any of the tunes is a recipe for disaster as few beginners are able to read music fast enough or (even harder) learn by ear even to keep up with slow playing. You have to at least know how to play the basic tunes to even get started.
Slow practice is a good idea (especially for fiddlers) as it helps improve tone; which can be too greatly sacrificed for speed with a "well, no one can hear all the individual notes, anyway" attitude that leads to sloppy playing and other bad habits.
I guess I'm lucky that the only session I attend is very friendly and we play some fast tunes and some slow tunes. If I don't know the tune everyone else is playing, I just listen and tap my foot and mark it down as one to learn for next time. If it's a slow tune, like Southwind or Sheebeg Sheemore, I might be able to sight-read fast enough to keep up, but I stop relying on the "dots" as soon as I know it.
I was fascinated by your suggestion that the Real Nutters on this site can be identified by, amongst other things, their appalling spelling. Would it be terribly uncharitable of me then to point out that you have mis-spelled (or even misspelt) 'weird'? Or was that an elaborately constructed booy-trapped aimed at luring in pedants like me!
The slow session or "beginner/ intermediate" session that we have around here follows a slightly different format than what I have read on the posts here, and it seems to be rather effective. We have it in a pub, but it is on Monday night, not a night where we're likely to scare away business. It starts around 8 PM, and for the first hour and a half or two, it is generally agreed that the beginners have the floor. I am more in the intermediate range, so I usually help start the tunes and keep the sets going during this time. This leading is actually good practice for me, but that's besides the point. By the time 9:30 PM rolls around, most of the repertoire of the beginners have been exhausted, and a few of us slightly more experienced players interject a few tunes at a bit faster of a pace, but still theoretically playable by some of the beginners (music is used at the session by some people-- we're not all purists, just out to have fun). Usually by around 10 PM, the session has shifted more to an intermediate level, and this continues until the bartender decides it's time to go home (usually by 11 PM). I have found this format to be most effective because it gives intermediate players like myself a chance to slow tunes down and clean up some sloppy areas, but then it gives the beginners a chance to hear tunes at a bit faster pace, closer to session speed, and play along if they can. Otherwise they would have to come out later in the week to the advanced sessions to listen, and with most people having jobs and families, many of them understandably don't have time to do this. Anyway, that's just one way that I think slow sessions can benefit all in some way.
The 'slow' session is alive and well in Chicago. The session at "Cullen's" on Tues. nite is basically a slow session, however it is run by two of the best Irish players in the city, Jimmy Keane (accordionist extraordinaire) and Sean Clelland (fabulous fiddle).
The sessioneers are mostly students of Sean and Jimmy and the tunes are played relatively slow and many times thru. Tunes are called out only by one of the two leaders. I've not attended but I know of at least one non-beginner who has attended and admitted that at the end of the nite he knew several of the tunes much better than he did when he walked in.
Incidentally "Cullen's" is a very popular Pub right in the middle of evening entertainment district and is always packed. Having Sean and Jimmy running the session keeps the performance level at an acceptible level for the patrons. This session has been running for many years.
Going to a Bar or Pub to learn be it at a slow session or any other is like
giving a monkey the scissors to cut your hair!;
since in both you will be lucky if you leave in one piece.
AngieK has the most important point of all, if you
want to play it, why not play Irish Music well?
IOW go home, buy a metronome and a cheap recorder;
then having a meeting of youself with yourself, let
the best man win.
'I might be able to sight-read fast enough to keep up, but I stop relying on the "dots" as soon as I know it.'
I hope you arent serious Len.....I hope you dont take the dots to session. Anyhow - angiek - you are spot on. Very good point!
My young music buddies have 2 speeds at our wed nite session: fast and faster....but sometimes they do play new tunes they are working on slower. When they come up to my house we sometimes play new tunes much slower so there is a variety of speeds which is nice....Playing with these guys has really helped me out a bunch....they inspire me. Burlington doesn't have any slow sessions....so I don't know much about them....I guess it depends on who runs them and how they are run....
But I agree with Maria, do what works for you! Just have fun!
At the Scoile Eigse in Clonmel last week they had "slow" sessions for the students, led by a small group of tutors. These sessions were well-structured with a list of sets of tunes to be gone through. They weren't learners' sessions for learning the tunes - we were expected to know the tunes or, failing that, at least be able to sight-read them. Emphasis was on rhythm, and the speed was only a little less than that of a normal pub session (say 90-95 as against 120-125), the idea being that it was a hafl-way house on the road to the real session. The same sets were repeated the next night slightly faster and new ones were added. By the end of the week the speed as far as I was concerned was virtually indistinguishable from that of most "real" sessions.
Once a fortnight in the Nova Scotia pub in Bristol (UK) there is a hour-long session/workshop for fiddle beginners run by Gill Newlyn, one of the local master fiddlers. It has useful stuff like tuning properly and playing scales and arpeggios, and teaches tunes at a fairly slow pace. At the end of hour a session for intermediates and above (mostly fiddles) starts in a reserved room in the pub downstairs, and many of the beginners come in to listen.
Trevor
Slow sessions
Slow sessions
I recently heard of a "slow session", in Glasgow I think, where the speed is deliberately kept down, and participants can agree in advance which new tunes to work up for the following week, thereby developing a repetoire. Is there anything similar in London, and does anyone have feedback from similar events elsewhere - eg it doesn't work, or it works, but not in a pub.
# Posted on August 19th 2003 by paul.farrow
Re: Slow sessions
I think any session where you play everything slow would be about as dull as any session where you played everthing fast.
But the real point I think (and I know I'lll get some stick for this) is that why would you want to play everthing slow all night? Surely even beginners can play the odd tune quite fast? Why limmit yourselves to the lowest common denominator in your group?
Being out in a good session is about experiencing the whole breadth of the music, from accomodating a steady rendition of the lark in the morning through to racey 25mins sets of reels. You should need and want to sit with players you regard as better than you as often as you can. Why waste time plodding in your own little cleek of "newbies"? You'll think you're playing is coming along nicely, but sit in a proper sassion and you'll soon realise it aint.
# Posted on August 19th 2003 by llig leahcim
Re: Slow sessions
You'll get more out of going to listen & record to great players in a session that you have no hope of playing at. Then you can work on the music at home.
Sitting in a room with 10 other beginers trying to sort it out can be morally encouraging, but it's easy to not push yourself.
IMO Do both ;o)
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by Mad Baloney
Re: Slow sessions
I think it helps to have a good, experienced player leading it. I agree that a slow session attended only by beginners can lead to the PBS - Perpetual Beginner Syndrome. But if some altruistic soul helps lead the session they can push people along and give newbies a good introduction to the music.
Sure, beginners probably could play some tunes up to speed, but they'd be sloppy as hell. The last thing they need is to learn bad habits. It's like asking them to pop wheelies before they know how to ride a bike.
That being said, I don't think a slow session is for everybody. It can be a crutch and some people just take better to being thrown in over their heads. That's certainly been what I've done. I'm glad newbies (or people learning a new instrument) have the opportunity to do slow sessions, though, it's certainly shouldn't be the only exposure people have to the music. They should also listen to recordings and go to advanced sessions just to listen.
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by jerball
Re: Slow sessions
There is a sort of "half-way house" to the slow session format, which I sometimes do in the Aberdeen "Globe" session. It comes after the classes of the "Scottish Culture And Traditions" group - "SCAT" for short, which was modelled on Edinburgh's "Adult Learning Project", and obviously includes a lot of learners. I'll start off a tune steadily, (rather than slowly), and play it through twice. I then lift the pace a bit, and play it twice again at a speed more approaching "session" speed. Some players will lose it, but I think it's worthwhile pushing them that wee bit, and they seem to appreciate the challenge.
A session where everything is played slowly would be very boring, especially for those listening, and don't forget that if your session is in a pub, you'll probably have an audience of some sort.
I agree with the above comments from the 3 contributers - you can always learn something by watching and listening to better players, even if you don't play a note all night.
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by Kenny
Re: Slow sessions
Any good session will welcome a newcomer, and if a new player has the gumption to say "Can we play this tune at my speed tonight" it would be a pretty poor company of players who refused.
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by showaddydadito
Re: Slow sessions
I'm still trying to figure this one out. If you don't go to the real thing, you never get a feel for the energy of the music. If you are just a beginner, a regular session is hopelessly intimidating. But what do you do with the folks that are really quite competent in a musicianly (new word!!) sort of way, just afraid to get away from the dots and trust their ears?
If you don't have a bunch of players with a set of tunes in common, then how do you develop a session without sitting down and plodding through tunes until you get a critical mass of players who can drag the others along with them? But it's like pulling teeth to wean people from sheet music!
In another thread, someone mentioned that they gave everyone in the slow session a tape with a set of standard tunes played at slow speed and then normal speed. Maybe do that and then lie and say there is no sheet music for the tunes......
I can't imagine doing a slow session at a pub, since the first few times through a new tune would be pretty grim, and it's hard to hear all the diddley-dees over the general hubub.
Random thoughts from the Batlady, out in the hinterlands....
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by Michele Sims
Re: Slow sessions
Paul, I help run a regular weekly session and a monthly slow session (in Montana, not London, sorry). The slow session helps people learn new tunes and gives newbies a chance to ask questions about technique, the tradition, etiquette, and the tunes themselves. We focus on tunes that get played at the regular session--this encourages players to participate at the regualr session, rather than clinging to the slow session.
Players of all levels come to our slow session because the crack is good (the mark of any good session), it's a good way to learn new tunes, and people here enjoy *contributing* to the music, not just digging for what they can take out of it. In other words, some experienced players show up because they enjoy helping newcomers.
When learning a tune, we play it at a crawl, phrase by phrase, until everyone's on board. But we also play "last month's tune" at a more lively tempo, and we might play some sets at regular session speed. So "slow" session is a bit of a misnomer--it's more of a *learning* session--but "slow" is what attracts many beginners who are otherwise rattled by the pace of a full-on session.
This format has helped keep our regular session fresh--we've brought in new tunes, new players, and instruments (flute, small pipes, bouzouki) to the circle. Knowing they'll actually get to play out, the slow session folks do more woodshedding during the week, so they're improving faster than they did without the slow sesh. It also helps them to be better listeners at regular sessions when they don't know the tunes or can't keep up with the pace.
Good luck finding a healthy slow sesh in London....
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by Will Harmon
Halfway house
Kenny, your 'halfway house' approach seems to be a reasonable one: do you do this on a regular basis (like monthly)? Do the folks in the SCAT classes all learn the same set of tunes before they come to you? Are they total beginners on their instruments or not? Do you meet in a classroom situation or in a pub? Am I hijacking this thread? Inquiring minds want to know.....
Batlady
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by Michele Sims
Re: Slow sessions
P.S. Our slow sesh happens at people's homes so we can crawl in private--that's easier on the newbies and pub punters alike. But we publicize it during our regular sesh and use an email list to spread the word.
Also, some people do use the dots to get the tunes in their heads, but our slow sesh mostly runs on ear. We encourage people to bring tape or mini-disk recorders. As a memory aid, we've got a three-volume set of over 1,000 tunes, the bulk of which get played at our regular session.
Oh, and all of this runs on the generosity of the more experienced players. Which, to me, is what the music is all about.
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: Slow sessions
The batlady says that a regular session is "hopelessly" intimidating to a biginner. Intimidating, yes, but hopeless? This is just the kind of negativity I'm always complaining about. "Winge, winge, oh I'll never be able to do that."
The truth is that you all try too hard because you think it's hard. You give yourselves little hurdles to jump over; you pat yourselves on the back when do a fiddley twiddley bit you couldn't do before, then off you skip, nervously to the next barrier.
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by llig leahcim
Re: Slow sessions
Heh, well there's the pot calling the kettle black.
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: Slow sessions - reply to batlady
The SCAT session happens every Tuesday in "The Globe"(a pub, - it was posted in the session listings a few weeks back) -whether the classes are taking place or not. It can be very busy when the classes are on, quieter between the terms, but we do try to keep it going over the year. There has never been much co-ordination between the tutors in terms of a common repertoire, unfortunately, although it has been discussed many times. Melody instruments taught are fiddles and whistles, and there are "mixed instrument" classes too. The session happens after the "Intermediate" level classes, so, no,- there aren't any complete beginners, (although to be honest, some are pretty close!). It does resemble a slow session quite often, but it depends who turns up. It is an open session , and is not just restricted to SCAT students. There is quite a lot of Scottish music, - which is what the organisation is about , anyway. Standard of Irish playing is not high. Visitors are always welcome - but you might want to contact me first!
The slow/fast thing is just something which occurred to me a few months ago. I might do it three or four times in a night, if it seems to me that some players are being side-lined, but it largely depends on which musicians happen to be in. I don't like players being left out, especially if they're learning and are keen, and that can happen occasionally.
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by Kenny
Re: Slow sessions
I'm just off to our monthly slow session. Like Will's, this is held in a house (owned by a generous 'sponsor') - this time in the wilds of the Fife / Perthshire border in Scotland.
We tend to work off a fairly standard but large repertoire, developing more tunes, trying different types etc. Good crowd and very democratic. Not for everyone, but so far, (after about three years), no major disagreements, and for those who feel they don't get enough out of it, well they just join in the regular sessions and give this a miss.
The slow session caters for all sorts (and a very wide age spread) from near beginners (similar to Kenny's description) to musicians trying to learn a different instrument etc. It's amazing how some of the regular players have developed their technique, tune knowledge and confidence to attend never mind participate in a more regular session. Towards the end of the evening the tempo tends to pick up on tunes we've worked on previous nights.
I also give standard private violin / fiddle lessons and it's questionable which is the more effective learning session, at least for tunes.
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by fifer
Re: Slow sessions
While agreeing with many of the above comments about not wanting to foster a terminally slow session, and appreciating the need to throw oneself in at the deep end, I must sympathise with Paul Farrow's wish to have a slow session to go to. If, like me, you have very close parametres around your musical ability, picking tunes up as they whizz past you at breakneck speed is a bit like trying to jump onto an express train. It's also nerve wracking. I'm sure if it were a regular affair, or your only session, it would indeed have a detrimental effect on your playing. But as an occassional forum for meeting other less accomplished players surely it has a place. Paul, I reckon your best bet is to find a posse of like-minded souls and commandeer a pub! I'm with you on this one mate! Drop me an email and let's round up a herd of London's arthritic wristed, short breathed, tone deaf, terminally daunted traditional musicians.
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by sergeant fox
Re: Slow sessions
I think Gill's responses to Paul and Batlady are evidence enough of why some people would enjoy going to a more tolerant, generous-of-spirit learning session. In large part, that's what thesession.org used to be. I for one am disappointed that this site is losing many knowledgeable, helpful, people--players who contribute a lot to the craic, music, and information--because they're tired of the pissy fits of a few people (who contribute little that's worthwhile).
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: Slow sessions
I must say that I agree with Will and his approach, while recognizing that Michael G., in his own inimitable way, might have been trying to sound encouraging. In Toronto, we're blessed with a wide variety of sessions and venues, from slower, learning-oriented sessions (most of which happen in people's homes or in small rooms at a local social club, and some of which are sponsored by Comhaltas Ceoltiori Eireann) through intermediate sessions to the barnburner's at the Dora Keogh. I don't think I would have learned as much as I have so quickly were it not for all three varieties.
Limiting yourself to the lowest common denominator in the group for a night or two each month helps the lowest common denominator to rise. Considering that I was that once, I feel it's only common decency to return the favour.
Meanwhile, as Michael G. suggests, it might be useful to eschew words like "hopeless" and "intimidating" in favour of different words like "ambitious" and "challenging".
---Michael B.
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by MichaelBolton
Re: Slow sessions
Slowing Down at Class and At Home
Metronome
Correct tempo for my little uns, one tick per
3 notes(Jig) @70 - 90 BPM and the 4 note CT types
(Reelpipe)two ticks for 4 notes - (bare bones here).
Student Fiddle Bows must travel down at Note
3 in the CC4/4 model but travel up for 4/12. It is
not rocket science to then calculate that the downbows
must be very quick while the ups are fairly slow.
4/12 3 4/12 etc
In triple meter where 3 1/8 notes stand, slurr
the first two, bow the last AND if - very common in
old Irish music- there is next a 1/4 treat that with
the same bowing as the first two notes - where next
is most often found the 1/8 note which must now
be drawn with a faster bow; finaly the last of these
dancephrases is often written as a dotted 1/4 which is best
played with the slower up followed by a quickdown
bow - making it into a 1/4 and 1/8.
The effect in both cases is the unrelenting down bow
at the UPbeat where a novice may become quickly
adept at dance bowing and thus the sooner to graduate
to playing the more demanding crooked pieces so
often played for the seated audience - which BTW does
not have to dance for I fear if they did then
injuries must surely follow.
Huffing on the shtick is the same thing - though
I would not want to say (here) where to do that ...lol
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by sorefingers
Re: Slow sessions
Oh, I don't disagree with Gill, Will; I'm a believer in the idea that you just roll up your sleeves, wade in there and have a sense on humor (and proportion) about the whole thing. And I have also watched some new players say how they can't get tunes by ear, (too hard...) but then find out that they can get in a note now and then. We are taught to passively sit by and listen to music as background noise (pop in a cd, turn on the radio) but not to really listen and participate. Therefore it is "hard" or, unfortunately for many, "too hard" and they miss out on a lot of pleasure, just playing with the rest of us enthusiastic scrapers. So if you can keep people playing long enough to finally get it, then you have more friends to play with. (And more people to help pay for the beer ;-] )
And, thanks, Zina, for the note--you hit it dead on: if you try too hard too fast, it can be very discouraging, because you don't really have the chops yet. This is all about having a good time, after all. That's why we put in the long hours to learn to play the devil's box (or whatever)
Batlady
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by Michele Sims
Re: Slow sessions
I give up. I too rarely disagree with the substance of Gill's posts, but am tired of *how* he says it. He's all yours.
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: Slow sessions
I apologize for my evil twin's gratuitous use of the spurious apostrophe (barnburner's). How I wish that life had an "undo" feature.
---Michael B.
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by MichaelBolton
Re: Slow sessions
I ran a "slow session" (really more of a teaching session) in Bloomington, IN for 4 years before moving away. That was with the express purpose of providing beginning and intermediate players a jump-start at how to learn repertoire by ear, because there were several first-class sessions in town for which the beg/int players were not sufficiently prepared. In the event, having a teaching session (mostly dedicated to learning repertoire) took pressure off the full-tilt sessions and everybody benefited: beg/int players who were dedicated could build their repertoires and ability to function at real-session speed, and the advanced players could play the way they wanted in the full-tilt session. No one was shortchanged.
After moving to W TX in Aug 2000, and discovering very little in the way of Irtrad activities, I decided to put the same template into play. My "slow session" (again, really a teaching-repertoire session) runs 1x/week 4-6pm at a local community center. Admission is free, because (a) most of my music and martial teachers passed on the teachings to me for free and (b) I have found that introducing a fee into the equation sets up a buyer-and-seller vibe between students and teacher that I don't like.
Tunes are taught strictly by ear--I've spent a lot of time working out methods, many derived from jazz teachers I've known, for teaching aural skills. Also, there is no presumption that someone attending a single time must consider her-/himself permanently committed.
Resulting from that, we have a pretty good int/adv pub session as well, liaison with local stepdance school and teacher, house parties, lots of service performances (schools, hospitals, nursing homes), local public radio and television exposure and support, and a scene that folks from elsewhere in the southwest travel too because of the good vibe.
My observations from this are as follows:
1) Players trying to learn this music in a vacuum (e.g., without direct contact with a lineage-holding master player) tend (a) to learn a lot of bad habits and (b) to sense, if only intuitively, that it doesn't "feel right".
2) If you have or want to develop advanced players, you need a full-tilt session: as a forum for the advanced players, as a benchmark for the beg/int players, as a good source of public outreach and audience development.
3) If you have beg/int players and want to keep them (a) motivated and (b) from mucking up the full-tilt session, it pays to provide an outside forum at which they can develop skills and a healthy (humble) attitude about what it takes to play this music right.
4) Having a regular (ideally weekly) teaching session provides, over the course of a year, literally hundreds of hours at which beg/int players can be exposed not only to tunes, but also correct playing techniques, lore of the music, insights into how/why the music's society works the way it does, and so on. Thus, one can give beg/int players a lot of coaching into repertoire, performance practice, and behavior, without putting it in some kind of prescriptive "rules" format.
I would not describe a teaching session as the only or the best way to build a scene in isolation--that is, in the absence of an existing local Irtrad music scene or support network--but it's worked for us, in several different contexts and situations. I'm also starting to export this idea to other situations through a non-profit Internet start-up. It's working.
cjs
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by coyotebanjo
Re: Slow sessions
I'm the one with a slow session that comes with four 90 minute cassettes filled with tunes. I love my slow session, but we don't always play slow. We start slow with new tunes, or tunes some of the less frequent visitors haven't played in a while, then we pick up the temp to session speed or near session speed depending on how we're doing. It's really a lot like a group lesson.
We play in the basement of a church - which I consider a good place for such an event and not in a pub (unless it had a back room we could be banished to!). I'm up to 22 or 23 tunes at speed, and I'm getting ready to join in a local "real" session soon.
So, done right, it's great. When I'm good enough, I hope to be able to continue the tradition myself...
Eric
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by Jayhawk
Re: Slow sessions
To Michael Gill, Pied Piper, and slowfingers --- in case you didn't manage to see my recent posting on the "Nutters" thread, I thought youse may be interested to read it here:
You can tell the Real Nutters on this site, usually because their spelling, grammar and syntax is appalling. They tend to be overfocussed, imbalanced, autistic, or at least Asperger's syndrome types, who don't mind taking some wierd controversial stance on a topic and sticking to it, despite popular concensus or normal rational thinking.
And they tend not to have any sensibility to other people's feelings, preferring to be the big champion, victorious over some trivial point, whilst having slagged down some 15-year-old newbie to the site, to score a little on-line victory, thus scaring off a young person forever. But remorse of any kind is never in their vocabulary. The Nazi Party was full of these one-dimensional freaks.
Think I'm joking? check out this site:
http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/
That's not denying they may well be talented musicians, but given the choice, I'd rather be a not-bad musician, but a good bloke, ie be a good dad to the weans and have friends from several different areas of my life, than be some screwed-up tortured stamp-collector-type Irish music Geek.
Danny.
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Slow sessions
I know we've been over this subject loads and loads and loads of times before. I think if you want to go to slow session thats fine, but like the first few comments, make sure you dont get stuck there. I never went to any slow session - not saying I'm a great player - but I can hold my own in a session. I dont think it did me any harm not going to slow sessions, In fact I think it made me more determined to learn faster.
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by bb
PS - I agree ceiliog comment - Variety is the spice of Life
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by bb
Re: Slow sessions
I have to confess to having had a bit of a rethink on the subject of Slow Sessions. The idea used to be anathema to me. They sort of seemed to miss the point and be contrary to what I thought of as being the spirit of session playing. But of course, here in Merrie England, we actually have many slow sessions, which can be places where people can go to build up an initial repertoire, and confidence. They just aren't labelled as Slow Sessions, in fact they aren't so much Slow, as LOW. So stuff might be played fast, but usually in a wobbly fashion. They have a common repertoire influenced mainly by Steeleye Span and Fairport Convention records, and still play the sets off those 1970s records. And they mix up those tunes with common English dance tunes like The Galopede and Morpeth Rant etc. I used to think that these events were unique to this part of the country, but I've spoken to people from all over who describe identical sessions, right down to the way certain sets are played, and the grumpy melodian player in the corner who thinks Irish tunes are boring, and who just wants to play Morris tunes in G...
You might think that these sessions might not be as useful as the well structured Slow Sessions described above, but to my mind they have two major things going for them.
One is that they are in pubs, not hidden away from public view in the basement of a Church or whatever, so you are forced to take responsibility for your musical actions - people (might) be listening!
Two is that anyone with any gumption and genuine interest in Irish music will soon seek out a proper session!
However, I am aware that in many parts of the world, the weird and wonderful range of musical events we have here are not available, and Learning Sessions sound like a good idea. Maybe they would attract less suspicion and approbrium if they were described as Group Lessons rather than Slow Sessions?
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by Ottery
Re: Slow sessions
From the above postings, anyone would think that it is sheer speed that gives Irish Traditional Music its charm and popularity. It is certainly not.
It is a whole range of features that makes ITM worthwhile. These would be almost impossible to list, but they are to do with the features of the compositions themselves (e.g intervals, key etc), the skill and artistry of the player, enjoyment for listeners and players, a sense of community in the session environment...
It is a genre of music that, in my view, can hold its own against any other genre (at its best). However, in sessions you mainly *don't* hear it at its best because people are preoccupied with playing too fast.
There are some tunes that deserve to be murdered by being played at very high speeds because they are not designed for discerning players or listeners. Fine - our heart rates increase, the tune is agreeable to the ear, we go a little tribal and we order another drink at the bar.
Other tunes are too good to be destroyed in this way, and it breaks my heart sometimes to hear such tunes being played without the craftmanship they deserve, just because everyone knows it and is able to play the basic version at high speed.
(The Star of Munster is one example of a tune that has a song-like melody that is almost always butchered and hacked at. I will have to check my facts at the Coleman Festival next week, but I believe it was composed by one of the famous Sligo fiddlers as a result of rejection in love. He played it constantly for three or so months, and did not play any other tune in that time. There are hundreds of tunes that have this lyrical quality that are played too fast to be properly enjoyed and appreciated.)
Like tunes, sessions benefit from variation/variety. Tunes should be played at speeds that are appropriate, so there ought to be changes of pace, and variation in the kind of tunes chosen.
And *regardless of pace*, all dance tunes should be exactly that - tunes that you would want to dance to. That doesn't mean "break-neck" - that means "with lift".
Experienced players ought to be able to take the pace down, and still play with danceability and lift. Inexperienced players should concentrate on playing with lift from the outset.
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by Greenrush
Re: Slow sessions
I was most amused by that aspergers site. I particularly liked the "sympton" ...
"A preoccupation with a restricted pattern of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus."
No one would deny that diddly music is not a restricted pattern of interest, and that to be any good at it you have to give it an abnormal amount of focus. But the attitude you take to this focus will determine whether you turn into one of Danny's perfectly described "screwed-up tortured stamp-collector-type Irish music Geek".
Take it easy, don't torture yourself with technical hurdles, and never, ever, ever, even estimate how many tunes you know, let alone count them.
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by llig leahcim
Re: Slow sessions
Not sure which slow session in Glasgow you mean, but it may be the one I run. This slow session is a bit different from other open sessions in that it is affiliated to the Glasgow Fiddle Workshop, and happens after our Wednesday night classes in Laurie's (King St). The point of this is to encourage less confident players to come along and basically get the session bug and get their fiddle out and have a go. I think some people who have recently started find the prospect of joining in a session or even playing a tune in public anywhere very daunting, and once this barrier is broken, may find that they enjoy it. Also most sessions are completely inaccessible to less experienced musicians as the tunes race along at breakneck speed a lot of the time. Depends where you go really. So the majority of weeks the people who come to this session are only members of the workshop, although we have recently had a few guitarists join in which is great. The session is not without its problems though.
I feel very strongly that it is really not fair to have complete beginners try to play a tune in a public bar with other people there trying to have a quiet drink. That is not me slagging off beginners, but we all know how we sounded when we were learning. The good thing about Laurie's is that they have a back room where we can play and not disturb punters at the same time. Not quite the same atmosphere but you have to start somewhere. I also find that we sometimes have a few problems with session etiquette, as most of the people there do not go to any sessions apart from this one and therefore do not pick up on things to bear in mind in order to be a considerate session member. That is quite hard for me to encourage. The session is different every night, really depending on who turns up. I try to operate a circle format where everyone is given the chance to start a tune and everyone else plays it at their speed. Again, this can be a bit frustrating for the better players, as the urge to play things up to speed can sometimes get too much! If there are more less experienced players there, I can often feel guilty and self concious playing my own stuff up tempo, but basically need a few proper sets during the evening to stop me from feeling fed up. Some people there also tend to be reluctant to suggest tunes, which can also be difficult, but I am hoping that will come. We tend to have a core list of sets that we play which are very well known, but can become a bit tedious. So I try and fling in a bit of new stuff every so often. Does anyone else have similar problems with slow sessions?
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by Fionafiddler
I was posting at the same time as Angir there, and I'd just like to aggree. It's not about speed.
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by llig leahcim
Re: Slow sessions
This one certainly seems to have struck a chord, and a variety of opinion. Of course I recognise the "just go to a really good session" viewpoint - that's what we are all aiming at - but my idea is how to get there, and have some fun along the way. I've got a couple of interested parties already for a London slow session. My idea is to try a pub in Camden (North-west London) for an evening early in the week, publicise it a bit and see who turns up. We could establish a rough repetoire from what we already know, and work at filling in the gaps. I am not saying this from a position of musical leadership, but rather from organising it. FYI I have been playing the Anglo concertina for 18 months. Any more thoughts?
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by paul.farrow
Re: Slow sessions
There is a good slow session which Nigel Gatherer runs in Edinburgh
http://users.argonet.co.uk/users/gatherer/sess/ss1.html
I have been there once or twice and quite enjoyed the atmosphere. It's not all slow music and the more experienced musicians usually have the opportunity for a "real tune" as the evening goes on. The good thing is that this session is led by Nigel as there's nothing worse than a hotch potch of inexperienced musicians stopping and starting all the time with the fast tunes played too slow and the slow tunes speeded up.
Although I would encourage everyone to attend "proper sessions", there is a place for slow sessions. They are good for learning new tunes even if you are an experienced player-especially with Nigel as he chooses more unusual material as opposed to the old warhorses. It also gives you a chance to practice more subtle variations and techniques on your chosen instrument rather than just "keeping up".
The "Irish session" , as we know it, is a fairly new phenomenon, in any case, although there has always been situations where people have got together for a song and tune. In the old days, there would have been a mixture of styles and abilities where everyone would have been given a chance and encouragement from the more experienced players.
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by John J.
Re: Slow sessions
For those of you against slow session, and I agree perpetually staying at a slow session level isn't a great way to improve your playing (but it is a great way to learn some tunes you're not familiar with), let me suggest an analogy.
Some folks learn to swim by just jumping in the water. While this can, and does work for some folks, others drown. Now, where I live the main body of water is the Missouri river. Artificially deepened for barges, it's naturally fast with wicked undertows. Anyone who can't swim has a tendency to be sucked beneath the water and never come up...this is not a good place to just jump in and learn to swim...it would be much better to find a nice pool or pond and learn there first.
The same is true of the slow session if you have no experience with sessions. I think it can be great, and they can keep the newcomer who comes in knowing no tunes from giving up in despair. I've been able to learn all about session etiquite, tune history, simply picking up new tunes, and it's lead by a very good flute player so I'm getting free lessions essentially!
Eric
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by Jayhawk
Re: Slow sessions
I think trying to play at a session if you don't know any of the tunes is a recipe for disaster as few beginners are able to read music fast enough or (even harder) learn by ear even to keep up with slow playing. You have to at least know how to play the basic tunes to even get started.
Slow practice is a good idea (especially for fiddlers) as it helps improve tone; which can be too greatly sacrificed for speed with a "well, no one can hear all the individual notes, anyway" attitude that leads to sloppy playing and other bad habits.
I guess I'm lucky that the only session I attend is very friendly and we play some fast tunes and some slow tunes. If I don't know the tune everyone else is playing, I just listen and tap my foot and mark it down as one to learn for next time. If it's a slow tune, like Southwind or Sheebeg Sheemore, I might be able to sight-read fast enough to keep up, but I stop relying on the "dots" as soon as I know it.
Len
# Posted on August 20th 2003 by KeepFiddlin'
Re: Slow sessions
Danny,
I was fascinated by your suggestion that the Real Nutters on this site can be identified by, amongst other things, their appalling spelling. Would it be terribly uncharitable of me then to point out that you have mis-spelled (or even misspelt) 'weird'? Or was that an elaborately constructed booy-trapped aimed at luring in pedants like me!
Paul
# Posted on August 21st 2003 by sergeant fox
Re: Slow sessions
The slow session or "beginner/ intermediate" session that we have around here follows a slightly different format than what I have read on the posts here, and it seems to be rather effective. We have it in a pub, but it is on Monday night, not a night where we're likely to scare away business. It starts around 8 PM, and for the first hour and a half or two, it is generally agreed that the beginners have the floor. I am more in the intermediate range, so I usually help start the tunes and keep the sets going during this time. This leading is actually good practice for me, but that's besides the point. By the time 9:30 PM rolls around, most of the repertoire of the beginners have been exhausted, and a few of us slightly more experienced players interject a few tunes at a bit faster of a pace, but still theoretically playable by some of the beginners (music is used at the session by some people-- we're not all purists, just out to have fun). Usually by around 10 PM, the session has shifted more to an intermediate level, and this continues until the bartender decides it's time to go home (usually by 11 PM). I have found this format to be most effective because it gives intermediate players like myself a chance to slow tunes down and clean up some sloppy areas, but then it gives the beginners a chance to hear tunes at a bit faster pace, closer to session speed, and play along if they can. Otherwise they would have to come out later in the week to the advanced sessions to listen, and with most people having jobs and families, many of them understandably don't have time to do this. Anyway, that's just one way that I think slow sessions can benefit all in some way.
# Posted on August 21st 2003 by Jason G
Re: Slow sessions
Ohh, you bitch, Paul! What's a booy trap anyway?
Danny
# Posted on August 21st 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Slow sessions
Suppose I deserved that one, Danny. I'd never make it as a proof reader!
Paul
# Posted on August 21st 2003 by sergeant fox
Re: Slow sessions
The 'slow' session is alive and well in Chicago. The session at "Cullen's" on Tues. nite is basically a slow session, however it is run by two of the best Irish players in the city, Jimmy Keane (accordionist extraordinaire) and Sean Clelland (fabulous fiddle).
The sessioneers are mostly students of Sean and Jimmy and the tunes are played relatively slow and many times thru. Tunes are called out only by one of the two leaders. I've not attended but I know of at least one non-beginner who has attended and admitted that at the end of the nite he knew several of the tunes much better than he did when he walked in.
Incidentally "Cullen's" is a very popular Pub right in the middle of evening entertainment district and is always packed. Having Sean and Jimmy running the session keeps the performance level at an acceptible level for the patrons. This session has been running for many years.
# Posted on August 21st 2003 by Tusong200
Re: Slow sessions
Going to a Bar or Pub to learn be it at a slow session or any other is like
giving a monkey the scissors to cut your hair!;
since in both you will be lucky if you leave in one piece.
AngieK has the most important point of all, if you
want to play it, why not play Irish Music well?
IOW go home, buy a metronome and a cheap recorder;
then having a meeting of youself with yourself, let
the best man win.
Sessions are for letting go, not hanging on!
# Posted on August 21st 2003 by sorefingers
Re: Slow sessions
Wise words, Maria....
# Posted on August 21st 2003 by Andee
Re: Slow sessions
'I might be able to sight-read fast enough to keep up, but I stop relying on the "dots" as soon as I know it.'
I hope you arent serious Len.....I hope you dont take the dots to session. Anyhow - angiek - you are spot on. Very good point!
# Posted on August 21st 2003 by bb
Re: Slow sessions
My young music buddies have 2 speeds at our wed nite session: fast and faster....but sometimes they do play new tunes they are working on slower. When they come up to my house we sometimes play new tunes much slower so there is a variety of speeds which is nice....Playing with these guys has really helped me out a bunch....they inspire me. Burlington doesn't have any slow sessions....so I don't know much about them....I guess it depends on who runs them and how they are run....
But I agree with Maria, do what works for you! Just have fun!
Joyce
# Posted on August 22nd 2003 by JMH
Re: Slow sessions
At the Scoile Eigse in Clonmel last week they had "slow" sessions for the students, led by a small group of tutors. These sessions were well-structured with a list of sets of tunes to be gone through. They weren't learners' sessions for learning the tunes - we were expected to know the tunes or, failing that, at least be able to sight-read them. Emphasis was on rhythm, and the speed was only a little less than that of a normal pub session (say 90-95 as against 120-125), the idea being that it was a hafl-way house on the road to the real session. The same sets were repeated the next night slightly faster and new ones were added. By the end of the week the speed as far as I was concerned was virtually indistinguishable from that of most "real" sessions.
Once a fortnight in the Nova Scotia pub in Bristol (UK) there is a hour-long session/workshop for fiddle beginners run by Gill Newlyn, one of the local master fiddlers. It has useful stuff like tuning properly and playing scales and arpeggios, and teaches tunes at a fairly slow pace. At the end of hour a session for intermediates and above (mostly fiddles) starts in a reserved room in the pub downstairs, and many of the beginners come in to listen.
Trevor
# Posted on August 25th 2003 by Trevor Jennings