Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
I'm a fiddler and I just moved to the Grand Rapids area. I'm trying to figure out who the other Irish musicians are and where they play. Are there sessions? Does anyone carpool? I'm from Indiana and I'm nervous about driving in the snow.
In fact any info about the Irish musicians in Michigan would be very welcome!
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
South Eastern Michigan has a pretty decent amount of good Irish music. The best session in the area is at Conor O'Neill's in Ann Arbor, which is a bit of a drive from you, unfortunately (2 hours). Hopefully someone else on here will know more about your area!
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
Hi Violi, there are two listed in the sessions category. In Conklin (a little northwest of Grand Rapids) at Fenian's which is every Wednesday night. Great fun to play there. the second is Sagutauk Brewing Company in Sagutauk. Smaller group of muscians, but very welcoming. This session is every third Tuesday of the month. Hope that helps.
Lowhistle
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
I don't get a chance to go to many sessions anymore. There is a great website www.folkjam.org that you can type in your zip code and it will give you a Google map of the sessions and things going on in your area (festivals, workshops, etc...).
A great group to follow around is Archive. They have quite a gathering of musician friends who come out to hear them, and they are also willing to jam once in a while themselves. They do a lot of shows at local coffee shops. Here is their website: http://www.archiveduo.com/Archive_Duo.html. Jim and Fred are great guys to know, very nice to talk to and very welcoming.
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
The session in Conklin is mighty fine, and closest to GR by far. The pub owner greatly supports the music and will himself occasionally sing one, an occurrence to be treasured. The session has grown large enough so that as a practical matter, it is led. There are, however, no roads that go to Conklin, only roads that go to roads that go to Conklin. It is pretty easy to find, and once you get there, the town is small enough there's no missing the pub.
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
"...The best session in the area is at Conor O'Neill's in Ann Arbor,...."
Of course that is a matter of opinion. Many who have been to that particular setting have ceased to attend for various reasons and attend those sessions judged inferior by the "elite folk music" types.
It would be helpful to know a little about what you are expecting of a session. It may be worth traveling an extra hour longer to find a more fulfilling experience.
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
Hey, Gary... I'm getting pretty sick of hearing you bash the O'Neill's session! Conor O'Neill's has the finest music in town. If by "elite folk music types" you mean real traditional musicians who have worked extremely hard to become proficient at a music they're passionate about, then I suppose you would be right. From my own experiences, the musicians you are constantly bad mouthing have been nothing but encouraging, supportive and fun. Being that I was in a band with one of the leaders, and am a regular at this session, I find this very offensive, and I'm pretty sure you consider me a friend. I'm sorry if you had a bad experience there, but what do you gain from making enemies over it?
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
I don't think there's any question that the majority of the best traditional Irish musicians in Michigan are located largely in the Southeast region, namely in the Metro Detroit/Ann Arbor area. Speaking as someone who has attended the Conor O'Neill's session somewhat regularly for years, I would also have to disagree with feardearg's statement. The musicians at that session, many of them teens and young adults with talent beyond their years, are some of the finest in the Midwest. I have traveled to many other sessions in the U.S. and in Ireland, and I have to say, the O'Neill's session rivals some of the best. The leaders of the session have taught almost all of the younger musicians, and they extend their knowledge to newcomers as well. The quality of the music at Conor O'Neill's is some of the finest I have encountered and I attend the session as often as I can. Granted, it is not a slow session; rather, it is a true traditional Irish session, played largely up to speed. However, beginners and advanced players alike are invited to start tunes periodically. The musicians at O'Neill's are extremely talented and all of them are gracious and helpful to those wishing to learn. Listening is the best way to learn Irish music, and there are no finer people to listen to and learn from than the musicians who attend this session. This session is clearly not advertised as a “slow” session, so someone who goes there expecting every tune to be played slowly could be disappointed. That is really the only viable criticism I can think of of this session.
As to feardearg's claim that "it may be worth traveling an extra hour to find a more fulfilling experience": I challenge anyone to find a better session in Michigan. There is not a session within several hours of Ann Arbor that even comes close to rivaling the high standard of music found at Conor O'Neill's. I was surprised to read feardearg's comment that many have "ceased to attend” the O'Neill's session. I do not believe this is true by any means, and I would like to defend the reputation of this session against the opinion of one individual who may have had a negative first impression of this session.
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
We were in the area over the christmas holidays and dropped in for the session with some friends from the area. I too found everyone to be very welcoming and although im not the best of fastest player by any means, I had no trouble playing the majority of the tunes played, and those I didn't know I greatly enjoyed listening to. To me, an ideal session is one where I know only around half of the tunes, as the other half give me the opportunity to absorb and learn new tunes rather than churning out the same old "top 40". There was definitely no "eletism" in the air.
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
For what it is worth, I really enjoy this session. I've taken a lesson from Marty, one of the 'anchors', and have had a long conversation with local legend Mick Gavin, who offered support, guidance, and good advice on how to get started. His son Michael, who is also phenomenal, also spent a long time talking with me one evening, and made some suggestions on good tunes to try, as did Wallace Hood, who was playing bouzouki one of the nights I was there. I want a couple of more lessons with Marty before I try to play a tune or two, but in the meantime I'm getting a lot out of listening, as well as everyone's willingness to share their thoughts, experiences, and advice. I'm glad I live in the same town where it is happening, and I aspire to improve to the point where I can play along regularly. My sense is that I'll be welcomed and encouraged.
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
Alison, you are a riot! Nothing but "encouraging, supportive and fun". Nothing but! Nothing But?
If I remember, you just sat there as someone who may be as dedicated and passionate about the music as you, someone who is struggling with an alzhiemers father who is trying to maintain some sanity by getting out to play tunes, was verbaly abused for over 17 minutes (oddly, her digital recorder was left on accidently, so that is no exageration) Didn't sound like a lot of fun to me. Didn't sound encouraging. Didn't sound supportive. I guess you had to be there.
I went to that location the next week and the same guy started up on the poor girl who wasn't even there. My wife accidently called this guys house and she, who couldn't care less about this music, was also railed upon for a spell. Nothing but supportive?
"Elite folk music", by the way, are not my words, as you know.
Alison, you are a friend and I love your family. You all are great. But the music is there for the non-great, too. I don't think the music requires greatness.
We all work pretty hard at our jobs, ailing parents, and financial hardships these days and even the least great among us has worked very hard to learn the few tunes we know. You know that we are supportive and encouraging even if not competition ready.
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
feardearg, I have to believe that that was an isolated incident, because I have been to that same session on numerous occasions and have never heard any verbal abuse of any kind. Granted, the leaders will often offer constructive criticism, and in rare cases certain players may require a firmer tone to get the message. But it is the responsibility of the session leaders to ensure that one person doesn't ruin it for everyone by playing too loudly, fast, slow, etc. I don't know what happened that night, but I find it hard to believe that any of the members of the O'Neill's session would attack someone in the manner you're describing, especially without any provocation whatsoever. Without knowing the exact circumstances of the situation you're referring to, I would just ask you to keep in mind that although you may have had a single bad experience, that is by no means true for everyone else, and that you may be discouraging people from attending this fine session as a result of your bad-mouthing the Conor O'Neill's crowd.
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
Think about what caused this ugly turn in this thread. All I stated that what was the best session in the area is a matter of opinion. That was considered a bash.
You may have misunderstood that this was an isolated incident.
All I said was that there were other sessions that people may find more fulfilling. Many of my friends who attend those sessions have found it to be so.
Finally, you may have been considered a potential student and so recieved the treatment any customer should expect.
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
While your reply is extremely insulting, it's part of the Irish culture to try and help and teach others, so I'm going to do my best. ;)
First of all Gary, please don't tell me what you remember, because I know for a fact that you were not even there that night. If you HAD been there, you might be aware to the fact that actually, I was not sitting with a box of popcorn watching an argument that had nothing to do with me, I was teaching lessons. None of my family was in the room when this was occurring. You seem to know a lot more about this argument than I do.
It's not fair for you to be bringing up a private argument that has nothing to do with either of us on a public forum. If you have a problem with me or my family, I'd welcome you to call us and be honest instead of lashing out on the internet months later. I have seen you many times in public since this event and you have never mentioned that you have a problem with me. This is not the place to have this conversation, especially because it is irrelevant to the Conor O'Neill's session and this website.
I'm going to explain what I understood the "elite folk music" term to mean, because I think you took a different meaning from this than the rest of us. Traditional Irish music was called "elite folk music" by that person because it is a kind of music that is, whether you like it or not, very, very difficult to learn. At its best, it is much more stylized, developed and precise than many rawer forms of folk music. To give the heart, soul and passion it deserves, you need to make a study of it and immerse yourself in what the music has to offer. As I think we both know, you can't just get a bodhran or a tin whistle and learn a few tunes and call yourself a traditional Irish musician, anymore than you can get a police uniform and gun and call yourself a cop. That same person also said that this music is "like a disease". You catch the tune bug and it takes your heart and soul.
The people in the Detroit area who are higher up along this ladder deserve our respect and honor. We are lucky to have such experts in our own hometown. Of course Irish music is not only for the few excellent musicians, but do you think that they shouldn't be looked up to as examples to strive towards? Do you also think that they're not going to defend the music they love? You are right in saying that this music does not require greatness. No music does. No one I know has said this. A really great fiddler once told me that "you can be a mediocre fiddler and have a hell of a lot of fun." All of us who teach for little or no monetary reward know and understand this. I have had fun during my entire journey, whether it has been sitting in the humblest of sessions with five tunes to my name, or playing at some of the finest venues in the country.
"Think about what caused this ugly turn in this thread. All I stated that what was the best session in the area is a matter of opinion. That was considered a bash."
Gary, I was not only referring to this post. You only have to go read your own website to find that you have bashed Conor O'Neill's and Comhaltas for that matter! (The Comhaltas session, as you might recall, is actually run by one of your own Session Nite regulars)
"Finally, you may have been considered a potential student and so received the treatment any customer should expect."
I don't know about Rhychawr, but I would be insulted if you said this to me. You are demeaning this person's good time at O'Neill's and poisoning it to fit your own sour viewpoint. I hope Rhychawr comes back to the session, because I look forward to meeting him. Also, you should keep in mind that you're getting awfully close to slander / libel by posting all of these zingers about this person on the Internet (slander if you're badmouthing at your sessions). I'd be careful if I were you.
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
"Many who have been to that particular setting have ceased to attend for various reasons and attend those sessions judged inferior by the "elite folk music" types."
First off, I don't see how this statement could be interpreted as anything but a bash. I agree that the "best" session is a matter of opinion, or more importantly, based on what you're looking for in a session. However, the connotation of your "opinions" is offensive to everyone who attends the Conor O'Neill's session. Your statements are misleading and to potential session attendees and I strongly believe that they are untrue. Please stop attempting to give this great session a bad reputation.
"Didn't sound like a lot of fun to me. Didn't sound encouraging. Didn't sound supportive."
Secondly, I would say that this was an isolated incident, from the way you described it. One person may have had a bad experience, and therefore you are implying that it could or will happen to anyone who attends this session? I can vouch for them from experience, and you can ask anyone who has attended this session: the leaders and members of the O'Neill's session are most definitely fun, encouraging, and supportive to any musician of any skill level.
Also, I can say with absolute certainty that I am not considered a potential student to anyone at that session, and I resent that statement. I am definitely not treated as a "customer," but as a fellow musician and a friend. These people are genuinely kind and helpful, and they extend that generosity to anyone and everyone wishing to learn this music.
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
"I hope Rhychawr comes back to the session, because I look forward to meeting him."
Hi Alison. I plan to come this Sunday. Will you be there?
We may have met in the past. I used to volunteer to run the soundboard at the Ark, and would sign up for all the 'Celtic' concerts. I remember doing sound for Solas, Dervish, a Welsh band whose nmae escapes me, your group, and some others. This may have been before you started playing on a regular basis, cause I remember that Marty was in that group.
Jeez, what was that Welsh band's name...?...I hate getting old!
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
I would like to add that the incident Feardearg was talking about did not take place at Conor O'Neill's. It has nothing to do with that session, and is irrelevant and confusing to all of you who don't know what he's talking about. I'm not sure why it was brought up on here.
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
Rhychawr, I might be at the session this Sunday. If you see a fiddler with long red hair, it's probably me...feel free to say hello, I'd love to meet you.
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
Boyo, boyo this has gotten out of hand. As an engineer by trade and a long-time professional sideman, I feel like I should be able to fix anything, but I have nothing to add, except that as someone who has good friends in both, um "camps", it really pains me to see this kind of bickering going on. There's precious little around here going on tune-wise, without people arguing about it.
fiddleplayer01: who are you? Have I met you? Your bio contains nothing.
Rhychawr C.: I hope that I see you Sunday. I'll introduce you to Ali if she shows up, and I'm still working on details about the "Jam Session" out near Gregory.
Ali: It was nice to run into you at Mike/Coleen's. Please say "Hello" for me to your folks and "The Punk". I'm ~still~ expecting you guys to at least be able to point out to me the "C"s on the Grand Staff sometime. Trust me, later on you'll probably find it useful.
Ain't it grand to be able to get out and play "Da Music" with some friends?
Peace,
Tom
I agree with TomW that this certainly has gotten out of hand. I really feel no inclination to continue in this manner in a public forum. But I will respond to one important hint.
I have absolutely nothing against Ali Kale or her family. In fact, from the beginning, before the beginning, of my ITM experience, I have adored each and all of them.
I first saw them at a renaissance festival. I was so impressed that I bought a CD from them. I was at first disappointed that it wasn’t very renaissance, then I decided it was the best CD I have ever owned. I played it again and again until it was worn out. I used to take a portable CD player in my car for long trips around the state and played only that CD.
When someone introduced me to the Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann group meeting at the White Heather club, you can’t imagine how delighted I was to discover that they were part of that fine bunch.
I have attended events simply because it was them playing; dinners with my wife at Baile Corcaigh, Pontiacs Arts, Beats and Eats (whatever), The Ark, Sean Keane’s tour and others.
One of my favorite memories in my experience is when I was the only other person beside Ali’s family to show up one Wednesday night when they hosted a Session in Detroit. I had a blast and felt so welcomed, even, dare I say, loved!
When I attended the DMIA it was always so wonderful when any of the family would join the “slow session”. That always meant a lot to me because it showed how much they wanted to help those beginners. Although they are the best (this ‘best’ is, of course, an opinion, but it is for the most part universal) and most beloved musicians in this area, they never were condescending to that group. They never made us feel that they were stooping to dazzle us with their expertise, but that they genuinely wanted to be with us.
The mates in our little group often, and I mean often, relate Perkin’s family stories with deep respect and affection. Most seem proud just to be associated with them. When Ali shows up on occasion at our sessions with brother and friends, we have reacted with total delight almost to the point where I was afraid Ali would feel uncomfortable. Her presence is always valued and, I would extend, needed. I wish she would attend more.
Although the temptation is there to respond to some of the above, I wish only to conclude with this submission and close with my regrets that I have upset someone I admire, respect, and hope that she is still my friend.
Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
I'm a fiddler and I just moved to the Grand Rapids area. I'm trying to figure out who the other Irish musicians are and where they play. Are there sessions? Does anyone carpool? I'm from Indiana and I'm nervous about driving in the snow.
In fact any info about the Irish musicians in Michigan would be very welcome!
# Posted on January 11th 2009 by violi
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
South Eastern Michigan has a pretty decent amount of good Irish music. The best session in the area is at Conor O'Neill's in Ann Arbor, which is a bit of a drive from you, unfortunately (2 hours). Hopefully someone else on here will know more about your area!
# Posted on January 11th 2009 by alison kale
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
Hi Violi, there are two listed in the sessions category. In Conklin (a little northwest of Grand Rapids) at Fenian's which is every Wednesday night. Great fun to play there. the second is Sagutauk Brewing Company in Sagutauk. Smaller group of muscians, but very welcoming. This session is every third Tuesday of the month. Hope that helps.
Lowhistle
# Posted on January 11th 2009 by LoWhistle
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
http://www.thesession.org/sessions/index.php/search?country_id=173&areaname=Michigan&town=&day=Any&search=Search
Also try feardearg's site (he's a member here), www.sessionite.com
I've heard rumors of a few in Lansing, but I haven't any details.
also try: www.grfolkarts.org - probably more "fiddle and the banjo"-oriented, but might be worth a look.
The Conor O'Neills session and the ones on sessionite are definitely worth checking out, IMHO. Let me know if you're going to be over this way...
Don't forget, the Midwest Fleadh will be in Detroit again this year: www.detroitirish.org.
I hope that this helps,
Tom
# Posted on January 11th 2009 by tomw
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
I don't get a chance to go to many sessions anymore. There is a great website www.folkjam.org that you can type in your zip code and it will give you a Google map of the sessions and things going on in your area (festivals, workshops, etc...).
A great group to follow around is Archive. They have quite a gathering of musician friends who come out to hear them, and they are also willing to jam once in a while themselves. They do a lot of shows at local coffee shops. Here is their website: http://www.archiveduo.com/Archive_Duo.html. Jim and Fred are great guys to know, very nice to talk to and very welcoming.
Alison
# Posted on January 12th 2009 by alisonmyers04
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
The session in Conklin is mighty fine, and closest to GR by far. The pub owner greatly supports the music and will himself occasionally sing one, an occurrence to be treasured. The session has grown large enough so that as a practical matter, it is led. There are, however, no roads that go to Conklin, only roads that go to roads that go to Conklin. It is pretty easy to find, and once you get there, the town is small enough there's no missing the pub.
jc
# Posted on January 12th 2009 by justjim
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
"...The best session in the area is at Conor O'Neill's in Ann Arbor,...."
Of course that is a matter of opinion. Many who have been to that particular setting have ceased to attend for various reasons and attend those sessions judged inferior by the "elite folk music" types.
It would be helpful to know a little about what you are expecting of a session. It may be worth traveling an extra hour longer to find a more fulfilling experience.
# Posted on January 12th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
Hey, Gary... I'm getting pretty sick of hearing you bash the O'Neill's session! Conor O'Neill's has the finest music in town. If by "elite folk music types" you mean real traditional musicians who have worked extremely hard to become proficient at a music they're passionate about, then I suppose you would be right. From my own experiences, the musicians you are constantly bad mouthing have been nothing but encouraging, supportive and fun. Being that I was in a band with one of the leaders, and am a regular at this session, I find this very offensive, and I'm pretty sure you consider me a friend. I'm sorry if you had a bad experience there, but what do you gain from making enemies over it?
Alison Perkins
# Posted on January 13th 2009 by alison kale
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
I don't think there's any question that the majority of the best traditional Irish musicians in Michigan are located largely in the Southeast region, namely in the Metro Detroit/Ann Arbor area. Speaking as someone who has attended the Conor O'Neill's session somewhat regularly for years, I would also have to disagree with feardearg's statement. The musicians at that session, many of them teens and young adults with talent beyond their years, are some of the finest in the Midwest. I have traveled to many other sessions in the U.S. and in Ireland, and I have to say, the O'Neill's session rivals some of the best. The leaders of the session have taught almost all of the younger musicians, and they extend their knowledge to newcomers as well. The quality of the music at Conor O'Neill's is some of the finest I have encountered and I attend the session as often as I can. Granted, it is not a slow session; rather, it is a true traditional Irish session, played largely up to speed. However, beginners and advanced players alike are invited to start tunes periodically. The musicians at O'Neill's are extremely talented and all of them are gracious and helpful to those wishing to learn. Listening is the best way to learn Irish music, and there are no finer people to listen to and learn from than the musicians who attend this session. This session is clearly not advertised as a “slow” session, so someone who goes there expecting every tune to be played slowly could be disappointed. That is really the only viable criticism I can think of of this session.
As to feardearg's claim that "it may be worth traveling an extra hour to find a more fulfilling experience": I challenge anyone to find a better session in Michigan. There is not a session within several hours of Ann Arbor that even comes close to rivaling the high standard of music found at Conor O'Neill's. I was surprised to read feardearg's comment that many have "ceased to attend” the O'Neill's session. I do not believe this is true by any means, and I would like to defend the reputation of this session against the opinion of one individual who may have had a negative first impression of this session.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by fiddleplayer01
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
We were in the area over the christmas holidays and dropped in for the session with some friends from the area. I too found everyone to be very welcoming and although im not the best of fastest player by any means, I had no trouble playing the majority of the tunes played, and those I didn't know I greatly enjoyed listening to. To me, an ideal session is one where I know only around half of the tunes, as the other half give me the opportunity to absorb and learn new tunes rather than churning out the same old "top 40". There was definitely no "eletism" in the air.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Splendid Isolation
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
For what it is worth, I really enjoy this session. I've taken a lesson from Marty, one of the 'anchors', and have had a long conversation with local legend Mick Gavin, who offered support, guidance, and good advice on how to get started. His son Michael, who is also phenomenal, also spent a long time talking with me one evening, and made some suggestions on good tunes to try, as did Wallace Hood, who was playing bouzouki one of the nights I was there. I want a couple of more lessons with Marty before I try to play a tune or two, but in the meantime I'm getting a lot out of listening, as well as everyone's willingness to share their thoughts, experiences, and advice. I'm glad I live in the same town where it is happening, and I aspire to improve to the point where I can play along regularly. My sense is that I'll be welcomed and encouraged.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Rhychawr Catsmeat
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
Alison, you are a riot! Nothing but "encouraging, supportive and fun". Nothing but! Nothing But?
If I remember, you just sat there as someone who may be as dedicated and passionate about the music as you, someone who is struggling with an alzhiemers father who is trying to maintain some sanity by getting out to play tunes, was verbaly abused for over 17 minutes (oddly, her digital recorder was left on accidently, so that is no exageration) Didn't sound like a lot of fun to me. Didn't sound encouraging. Didn't sound supportive. I guess you had to be there.
I went to that location the next week and the same guy started up on the poor girl who wasn't even there. My wife accidently called this guys house and she, who couldn't care less about this music, was also railed upon for a spell. Nothing but supportive?
"Elite folk music", by the way, are not my words, as you know.
Alison, you are a friend and I love your family. You all are great. But the music is there for the non-great, too. I don't think the music requires greatness.
We all work pretty hard at our jobs, ailing parents, and financial hardships these days and even the least great among us has worked very hard to learn the few tunes we know. You know that we are supportive and encouraging even if not competition ready.
I have to go so can't add more that I would like
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
feardearg, I have to believe that that was an isolated incident, because I have been to that same session on numerous occasions and have never heard any verbal abuse of any kind. Granted, the leaders will often offer constructive criticism, and in rare cases certain players may require a firmer tone to get the message. But it is the responsibility of the session leaders to ensure that one person doesn't ruin it for everyone by playing too loudly, fast, slow, etc. I don't know what happened that night, but I find it hard to believe that any of the members of the O'Neill's session would attack someone in the manner you're describing, especially without any provocation whatsoever. Without knowing the exact circumstances of the situation you're referring to, I would just ask you to keep in mind that although you may have had a single bad experience, that is by no means true for everyone else, and that you may be discouraging people from attending this fine session as a result of your bad-mouthing the Conor O'Neill's crowd.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by fiddleplayer01
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
I've also been to the session at Fenian's Pub in Conklin. A lot of fun, the people there (players and punters) were very friendly.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Rhychawr Catsmeat
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
Think about what caused this ugly turn in this thread. All I stated that what was the best session in the area is a matter of opinion. That was considered a bash.
You may have misunderstood that this was an isolated incident.
All I said was that there were other sessions that people may find more fulfilling. Many of my friends who attend those sessions have found it to be so.
Finally, you may have been considered a potential student and so recieved the treatment any customer should expect.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
While your reply is extremely insulting, it's part of the Irish culture to try and help and teach others, so I'm going to do my best. ;)
First of all Gary, please don't tell me what you remember, because I know for a fact that you were not even there that night. If you HAD been there, you might be aware to the fact that actually, I was not sitting with a box of popcorn watching an argument that had nothing to do with me, I was teaching lessons. None of my family was in the room when this was occurring. You seem to know a lot more about this argument than I do.
It's not fair for you to be bringing up a private argument that has nothing to do with either of us on a public forum. If you have a problem with me or my family, I'd welcome you to call us and be honest instead of lashing out on the internet months later. I have seen you many times in public since this event and you have never mentioned that you have a problem with me. This is not the place to have this conversation, especially because it is irrelevant to the Conor O'Neill's session and this website.
I'm going to explain what I understood the "elite folk music" term to mean, because I think you took a different meaning from this than the rest of us. Traditional Irish music was called "elite folk music" by that person because it is a kind of music that is, whether you like it or not, very, very difficult to learn. At its best, it is much more stylized, developed and precise than many rawer forms of folk music. To give the heart, soul and passion it deserves, you need to make a study of it and immerse yourself in what the music has to offer. As I think we both know, you can't just get a bodhran or a tin whistle and learn a few tunes and call yourself a traditional Irish musician, anymore than you can get a police uniform and gun and call yourself a cop. That same person also said that this music is "like a disease". You catch the tune bug and it takes your heart and soul.
The people in the Detroit area who are higher up along this ladder deserve our respect and honor. We are lucky to have such experts in our own hometown. Of course Irish music is not only for the few excellent musicians, but do you think that they shouldn't be looked up to as examples to strive towards? Do you also think that they're not going to defend the music they love? You are right in saying that this music does not require greatness. No music does. No one I know has said this. A really great fiddler once told me that "you can be a mediocre fiddler and have a hell of a lot of fun." All of us who teach for little or no monetary reward know and understand this. I have had fun during my entire journey, whether it has been sitting in the humblest of sessions with five tunes to my name, or playing at some of the finest venues in the country.
"Think about what caused this ugly turn in this thread. All I stated that what was the best session in the area is a matter of opinion. That was considered a bash."
Gary, I was not only referring to this post. You only have to go read your own website to find that you have bashed Conor O'Neill's and Comhaltas for that matter! (The Comhaltas session, as you might recall, is actually run by one of your own Session Nite regulars)
"Finally, you may have been considered a potential student and so received the treatment any customer should expect."
I don't know about Rhychawr, but I would be insulted if you said this to me. You are demeaning this person's good time at O'Neill's and poisoning it to fit your own sour viewpoint. I hope Rhychawr comes back to the session, because I look forward to meeting him. Also, you should keep in mind that you're getting awfully close to slander / libel by posting all of these zingers about this person on the Internet (slander if you're badmouthing at your sessions). I'd be careful if I were you.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by alison kale
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
"Many who have been to that particular setting have ceased to attend for various reasons and attend those sessions judged inferior by the "elite folk music" types."
First off, I don't see how this statement could be interpreted as anything but a bash. I agree that the "best" session is a matter of opinion, or more importantly, based on what you're looking for in a session. However, the connotation of your "opinions" is offensive to everyone who attends the Conor O'Neill's session. Your statements are misleading and to potential session attendees and I strongly believe that they are untrue. Please stop attempting to give this great session a bad reputation.
"Didn't sound like a lot of fun to me. Didn't sound encouraging. Didn't sound supportive."
Secondly, I would say that this was an isolated incident, from the way you described it. One person may have had a bad experience, and therefore you are implying that it could or will happen to anyone who attends this session? I can vouch for them from experience, and you can ask anyone who has attended this session: the leaders and members of the O'Neill's session are most definitely fun, encouraging, and supportive to any musician of any skill level.
Also, I can say with absolute certainty that I am not considered a potential student to anyone at that session, and I resent that statement. I am definitely not treated as a "customer," but as a fellow musician and a friend. These people are genuinely kind and helpful, and they extend that generosity to anyone and everyone wishing to learn this music.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by fiddleplayer01
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
"I hope Rhychawr comes back to the session, because I look forward to meeting him."
Hi Alison. I plan to come this Sunday. Will you be there?
We may have met in the past. I used to volunteer to run the soundboard at the Ark, and would sign up for all the 'Celtic' concerts. I remember doing sound for Solas, Dervish, a Welsh band whose nmae escapes me, your group, and some others. This may have been before you started playing on a regular basis, cause I remember that Marty was in that group.
Jeez, what was that Welsh band's name...?...I hate getting old!
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Rhychawr Catsmeat
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
Might have been Carreg Lafar (sp?). How soon we fforget.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Rhychawr Catsmeat
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
I would like to add that the incident Feardearg was talking about did not take place at Conor O'Neill's. It has nothing to do with that session, and is irrelevant and confusing to all of you who don't know what he's talking about. I'm not sure why it was brought up on here.
# Posted on January 16th 2009 by alison kale
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
Rhychawr, I might be at the session this Sunday. If you see a fiddler with long red hair, it's probably me...feel free to say hello, I'd love to meet you.
# Posted on January 16th 2009 by alison kale
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
Boyo, boyo this has gotten out of hand. As an engineer by trade and a long-time professional sideman, I feel like I should be able to fix anything, but I have nothing to add, except that as someone who has good friends in both, um "camps", it really pains me to see this kind of bickering going on. There's precious little around here going on tune-wise, without people arguing about it.
fiddleplayer01: who are you? Have I met you? Your bio contains nothing.
Rhychawr C.: I hope that I see you Sunday. I'll introduce you to Ali if she shows up, and I'm still working on details about the "Jam Session" out near Gregory.
Ali: It was nice to run into you at Mike/Coleen's. Please say "Hello" for me to your folks and "The Punk". I'm ~still~ expecting you guys to at least be able to point out to me the "C"s on the Grand Staff sometime. Trust me, later on you'll probably find it useful.
Ain't it grand to be able to get out and play "Da Music" with some friends?
Peace,
Tom
# Posted on January 16th 2009 by tomw
Alison Kale and Family
I agree with TomW that this certainly has gotten out of hand. I really feel no inclination to continue in this manner in a public forum. But I will respond to one important hint.
I have absolutely nothing against Ali Kale or her family. In fact, from the beginning, before the beginning, of my ITM experience, I have adored each and all of them.
I first saw them at a renaissance festival. I was so impressed that I bought a CD from them. I was at first disappointed that it wasn’t very renaissance, then I decided it was the best CD I have ever owned. I played it again and again until it was worn out. I used to take a portable CD player in my car for long trips around the state and played only that CD.
When someone introduced me to the Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann group meeting at the White Heather club, you can’t imagine how delighted I was to discover that they were part of that fine bunch.
I have attended events simply because it was them playing; dinners with my wife at Baile Corcaigh, Pontiacs Arts, Beats and Eats (whatever), The Ark, Sean Keane’s tour and others.
One of my favorite memories in my experience is when I was the only other person beside Ali’s family to show up one Wednesday night when they hosted a Session in Detroit. I had a blast and felt so welcomed, even, dare I say, loved!
When I attended the DMIA it was always so wonderful when any of the family would join the “slow session”. That always meant a lot to me because it showed how much they wanted to help those beginners. Although they are the best (this ‘best’ is, of course, an opinion, but it is for the most part universal) and most beloved musicians in this area, they never were condescending to that group. They never made us feel that they were stooping to dazzle us with their expertise, but that they genuinely wanted to be with us.
The mates in our little group often, and I mean often, relate Perkin’s family stories with deep respect and affection. Most seem proud just to be associated with them. When Ali shows up on occasion at our sessions with brother and friends, we have reacted with total delight almost to the point where I was afraid Ali would feel uncomfortable. Her presence is always valued and, I would extend, needed. I wish she would attend more.
Although the temptation is there to respond to some of the above, I wish only to conclude with this submission and close with my regrets that I have upset someone I admire, respect, and hope that she is still my friend.
TomW…you’re alright, too!
# Posted on January 17th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
hmmmmmmmm interesting!
# Posted on February 8th 2009 by eire12
Re: Looking for sessions in the Grand Rapids (MI) area
Gary - awwwwww, shucks!
# Posted on February 9th 2009 by tomw