Hi everyone. I have been invited to perform at my local Catholic church by the church's organist and music director. She is looking to bring an "Irish" flavor to some of the normally traditional "Church type" songs. Does anybody have any suggestions of what tunes/songs would be appropriate, yet lively? Amazing Grace comes to mind, but I was thinking more Celtic than that. Don't get me wrong, it's a great song, but I think a little over done. Looking for something with a little "Punch" to it.
Just so you know, I play irish flutes & whistles. I was also planning on bringing along a couple of my session buddies to help. Perhaps a Ulliean piper, fiddler, and guitar player. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
The Irish hymn tunes that spring to mind off the top of my head are St Columba and Slane (usually sung as "The king of love my shepherd is" and "Be thou my vision"). Having had to produce arrangements of both in the past, I'd say that they can easily be made to sound "Celtic" but they aren't "punch"-y. Most of the trad hymn tunes I know that can be punchy aren't Irish, the Irish ones tend to be of the slow air type. I'll look through a few books in the collection at home tonight and see whether anything springs to mind.
If it's of any use/interest you, send me an e-mail address and I can provide mp3s of both those hymns arranged for guitar & fiddle plus a few other odds and ends.
Reply #2 - is the congregation supposed to be singing along with you?
You've probably already thought of this but finding a key which is both instrument-friendly *and* suitable for congregational singing (i.e. neither too high nor too low) isn't always easy. That might be as important as any other factor in determining your choice of songs/hymns.
My advice : try the breton music, they have some really nice church music there ("kantikou"), with a celtic flavour that sounds just great. They are all in Breton language although the word "kantikou" comes obviously from the French "Cantique" (Breton has nothing to do with French and is closed to Welsh)
Try the link bellow :
Song no3 is called "Adoromp holl", a very nice one, and wellknown.
You'll find it played in a church with Bombarde, Organ & Vocals, in a recording made by the Chieftains and called "Celtic Wedding".
It is usually the kind of stuff played for weddings, the game being to make the bride cry out of emotion. It usually works with this one.
Played with flute and pipes, it would sound just great !!
In order to play it : rythm is the one of a slow march.
Yes we used to do this sort of thing at a previous church a few years back.
We used to do 'Be Thou My Vision' - if I remember rightly I played that on the Bflat whistle.
Another great favourite with our lot was 'When I survey the wondrous cross' using a tune which I only know as "Waly Waly" or "the Lament of Barbara, Marchioness of Douglas". I don't know clever things like notation or abc to be able to write anything down for you, but I'll do a bit of looking to see what I can find.
The other resource we used was a series of books produced by the Iona community - you could look them up, I expect there is a website.
Some of my band tell me they were playing during Mass at the local cathedral over the hols and played airs etc (not all Irish, really, but who's to know). I don't think they played the hymns, although a church near me have a ceilidh player organising the music group who play normal hymns on accordion, guitar etc.
I have played concertina in mass once but we were playing parts from the hymnbook as I couldn't be trusted not to jazz things up a bit.
I would advise the priest against allowing the devils instruments into mass or the place would be full of bodhrans very soon!!
Hope this doesn't appear three times, this is the third attempt to post...
The Iona Community music is published by Wild Goose Publications, The Publishing Division of the Iona Community, Pearce Institute, 840 Govan Rd, Glasgow G51 3UT ph p41 445 4561. Two key names for internet searching are John L. Bell and Graham Maule. The Iona Community use a lot of trad tunes but many of them are not Irish so it depends on how fussy or otherwise you feel about that. Many of them would work well with the instruments you mention.
If you know the parish well then please ignore this comment, don't want to be teaching people how to suck shakey eggs, but I would add just a little caveat to Robinson's advice... the Chieftains recording is fine stuff however you need to be really clear on whether you are expected to play what the Anglicans/C-of-Es/Episcopalians would call an "anthem" or whether you are supporting congregational singing. If the latter, you need to know what the congregation has in its working repertoire and maybe be prepared to do a "congregational rehearsal" before the service. Congregations are a real cross-section of the community, many members of which have no particular interest in music and won't know "well known" tunes well enough for singalong purposes, and with the post-Vatican II emphasis on congregational participation, anything that comes across as a "performance" might not go down too well in the context of Mass. There really isn't the same place in Mass for "solos" that the Church of England tradition has for non-congregational choral items. (I'm assuming you've been invited to play during a service.)
That said, in some Catholic parishes such items are welcome and work really well, your music director is being a lot more imaginative than most and probably knows what she's doing and as I say if you are regularly involved with the parish, please treat the aforementioned with ignore! It's just that church music, like many sessions, has its own "etiquette' which, in many cases, is about as obvious to the newcomer!
(I'm sure that round here somewhere I have a wonderful story about a bishop in the Middle Ages stationing archers in the nave during Mass to ensure that the musicians didn't do something or other that he'd just banned... don't think it was piping or bodhran-thumping but if I track the story down, I'll pass it on!)
Might not be what you're looking for but try to listen to the CD 'Lasair Dhe' (Flame of God) on SKYECD19 (Macmeanmna Reccordings). Might give you some ideas.
Features Cliar, massed gaelic choirs, solo voice and guitar etc covering new pieces of music based on Gaelic psalms - truly beautiful.
Some Irish instrumental tunes I've played during mass (normally during "presentation of the gifts" where an instrumental is more appropritate are: Blind Mary, Hector the Hero, Jock O' Hazeldean (Scottish), Planxty Irwin, The Foggy Dew and When I Followed A Lass. All were very well received.
You might check out "The Flower of the Quern" It is a Scottish air.
If it is not a hymn tune now, it should be.
look in "Ceol na Fidhle" Volume 1 - published by Harpstring House
Bill McKim
You might want to consider any number of O'Carolan tunes. The Chieftans played "O'Carolan's Welcome" for the Pope's visit to Ireland several years ago. "Captain O'Kane" (a.k.a. Small Birds Rejoice) is another good one. While not necessarily religious, the hornpipe "Fair-Haired Child" might be appropriate, and it has a little punch.
From the latest edition of the compendium "Mission Praise", there are the following that have good tunes:
1. "Before The Throne Of God Above " - 3/4 time tune with a TM feel. 2. All I Once Held Dear", anthemic 4/4 by prolific and talented Christian songwriter Graham Kendrick (many of his are in "Mission Praise"). 3. Something to the tune of "Star of the Co. Down". 4. "How Great The Father's Love For Us" - in slow 4/4. Beautiful, fairly simple tune; somehow seems to have a Welsh feel, though can't put my finger on how or why. Anyway, there are many good ones in MP - the more recent the edition, the more it'll have in it. If still stymied, "Danny Boy"(The Londonderry Air) is the tune toat least one of the songs/hymns.
If you want to play decent music for the catholic mass, there is a good SIMPLE MASS which is very easy for both the congregation to sing and musicians to play.
Our music group uses this a lot, it is by an english composer named Val Goldsack and is called 'A simple mass' - we downloaded it free from her website: http://www.valgoldsack.co.uk/vmassmp3.htm
Decent Church Music
Decent Church Music
Hi everyone. I have been invited to perform at my local Catholic church by the church's organist and music director. She is looking to bring an "Irish" flavor to some of the normally traditional "Church type" songs. Does anybody have any suggestions of what tunes/songs would be appropriate, yet lively? Amazing Grace comes to mind, but I was thinking more Celtic than that. Don't get me wrong, it's a great song, but I think a little over done. Looking for something with a little "Punch" to it.
Just so you know, I play irish flutes & whistles. I was also planning on bringing along a couple of my session buddies to help. Perhaps a Ulliean piper, fiddler, and guitar player. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
# Posted on August 18th 2003 by dumpingsirkey
Re: Decent Church Music
Hi, Dumpingsirkey.
The Irish hymn tunes that spring to mind off the top of my head are St Columba and Slane (usually sung as "The king of love my shepherd is" and "Be thou my vision"). Having had to produce arrangements of both in the past, I'd say that they can easily be made to sound "Celtic" but they aren't "punch"-y. Most of the trad hymn tunes I know that can be punchy aren't Irish, the Irish ones tend to be of the slow air type. I'll look through a few books in the collection at home tonight and see whether anything springs to mind.
If it's of any use/interest you, send me an e-mail address and I can provide mp3s of both those hymns arranged for guitar & fiddle plus a few other odds and ends.
# Posted on August 18th 2003 by Tish
Re: Decent Church Music
Reply #2 - is the congregation supposed to be singing along with you?
You've probably already thought of this but finding a key which is both instrument-friendly *and* suitable for congregational singing (i.e. neither too high nor too low) isn't always easy. That might be as important as any other factor in determining your choice of songs/hymns.
# Posted on August 18th 2003 by Tish
Re: Decent Church Music
Hi,
My advice : try the breton music, they have some really nice church music there ("kantikou"), with a celtic flavour that sounds just great. They are all in Breton language although the word "kantikou" comes obviously from the French "Cantique" (Breton has nothing to do with French and is closed to Welsh)
Try the link bellow :
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/per.kentel/frame_kantikou.htm
Song no3 is called "Adoromp holl", a very nice one, and wellknown.
You'll find it played in a church with Bombarde, Organ & Vocals, in a recording made by the Chieftains and called "Celtic Wedding".
It is usually the kind of stuff played for weddings, the game being to make the bride cry out of emotion. It usually works with this one.
Played with flute and pipes, it would sound just great !!
In order to play it : rythm is the one of a slow march.
Robinson
# Posted on August 18th 2003 by Robinson
Re: Decent Church Music
Eh up dumpingsirkey
Yes we used to do this sort of thing at a previous church a few years back.
We used to do 'Be Thou My Vision' - if I remember rightly I played that on the Bflat whistle.
Another great favourite with our lot was 'When I survey the wondrous cross' using a tune which I only know as "Waly Waly" or "the Lament of Barbara, Marchioness of Douglas". I don't know clever things like notation or abc to be able to write anything down for you, but I'll do a bit of looking to see what I can find.
The other resource we used was a series of books produced by the Iona community - you could look them up, I expect there is a website.
Will post more later.
Dave
# Posted on August 18th 2003 by showaddydadito
Re: Decent Church Music
To play pipes in the church was forbidden for many centuries- ask you local priest whether he agrees to have a divil's instrument in his mass
# Posted on August 18th 2003 by swisspiper
Re: InDecent Church Music
Some of my band tell me they were playing during Mass at the local cathedral over the hols and played airs etc (not all Irish, really, but who's to know). I don't think they played the hymns, although a church near me have a ceilidh player organising the music group who play normal hymns on accordion, guitar etc.
I have played concertina in mass once but we were playing parts from the hymnbook as I couldn't be trusted not to jazz things up a bit.
I would advise the priest against allowing the devils instruments into mass or the place would be full of bodhrans very soon!!
# Posted on August 18th 2003 by geoffwright
Re: Decent Church Music
Hope this doesn't appear three times, this is the third attempt to post...
The Iona Community music is published by Wild Goose Publications, The Publishing Division of the Iona Community, Pearce Institute, 840 Govan Rd, Glasgow G51 3UT ph p41 445 4561. Two key names for internet searching are John L. Bell and Graham Maule. The Iona Community use a lot of trad tunes but many of them are not Irish so it depends on how fussy or otherwise you feel about that. Many of them would work well with the instruments you mention.
If you know the parish well then please ignore this comment, don't want to be teaching people how to suck shakey eggs, but I would add just a little caveat to Robinson's advice... the Chieftains recording is fine stuff however you need to be really clear on whether you are expected to play what the Anglicans/C-of-Es/Episcopalians would call an "anthem" or whether you are supporting congregational singing. If the latter, you need to know what the congregation has in its working repertoire and maybe be prepared to do a "congregational rehearsal" before the service. Congregations are a real cross-section of the community, many members of which have no particular interest in music and won't know "well known" tunes well enough for singalong purposes, and with the post-Vatican II emphasis on congregational participation, anything that comes across as a "performance" might not go down too well in the context of Mass. There really isn't the same place in Mass for "solos" that the Church of England tradition has for non-congregational choral items. (I'm assuming you've been invited to play during a service.)
That said, in some Catholic parishes such items are welcome and work really well, your music director is being a lot more imaginative than most and probably knows what she's doing and as I say if you are regularly involved with the parish, please treat the aforementioned with ignore! It's just that church music, like many sessions, has its own "etiquette' which, in many cases, is about as obvious to the newcomer!
(I'm sure that round here somewhere I have a wonderful story about a bishop in the Middle Ages stationing archers in the nave during Mass to ensure that the musicians didn't do something or other that he'd just banned... don't think it was piping or bodhran-thumping but if I track the story down, I'll pass it on!)
# Posted on August 18th 2003 by Tish
Re: Decent Church Music
Ditto to Tish and the Iona community music. It really is very beautiful.
# Posted on August 18th 2003 by I have chickens
Re: Decent Church Music
Thanks for all of your suggestions. I neglected to mention that this will just be solo/ensemble work. No congregational singing.
I'll ask the priest about pipers in church, but I'm sure it won't be a problem.
# Posted on August 19th 2003 by dumpingsirkey
Re: Decent Church Music
Might not be what you're looking for but try to listen to the CD 'Lasair Dhe' (Flame of God) on SKYECD19 (Macmeanmna Reccordings). Might give you some ideas.
Features Cliar, massed gaelic choirs, solo voice and guitar etc covering new pieces of music based on Gaelic psalms - truly beautiful.
# Posted on August 19th 2003 by fifer
Re: Decent Church Music
For what it's worth, the Belfast Revival CD has some stuff... Probably not what a Catholic church wants to hear... more of a Baptist thang...
# Posted on August 19th 2003 by no longer exists
Re: Decent Church Music
Some Irish instrumental tunes I've played during mass (normally during "presentation of the gifts" where an instrumental is more appropritate are: Blind Mary, Hector the Hero, Jock O' Hazeldean (Scottish), Planxty Irwin, The Foggy Dew and When I Followed A Lass. All were very well received.
# Posted on August 19th 2003 by tony neria
Re: Decent Church Music
You might check out "The Flower of the Quern" It is a Scottish air.
If it is not a hymn tune now, it should be.
look in "Ceol na Fidhle" Volume 1 - published by Harpstring House
Bill McKim
# Posted on August 19th 2003 by bmckim
Re: Decent Church Music
You might want to consider any number of O'Carolan tunes. The Chieftans played "O'Carolan's Welcome" for the Pope's visit to Ireland several years ago. "Captain O'Kane" (a.k.a. Small Birds Rejoice) is another good one. While not necessarily religious, the hornpipe "Fair-Haired Child" might be appropriate, and it has a little punch.
Jim L
# Posted on August 19th 2003 by Jiml
Re: Decent Church Music
From the latest edition of the compendium "Mission Praise", there are the following that have good tunes:
1. "Before The Throne Of God Above " - 3/4 time tune with a TM feel. 2. All I Once Held Dear", anthemic 4/4 by prolific and talented Christian songwriter Graham Kendrick (many of his are in "Mission Praise"). 3. Something to the tune of "Star of the Co. Down". 4. "How Great The Father's Love For Us" - in slow 4/4. Beautiful, fairly simple tune; somehow seems to have a Welsh feel, though can't put my finger on how or why. Anyway, there are many good ones in MP - the more recent the edition, the more it'll have in it. If still stymied, "Danny Boy"(The Londonderry Air) is the tune toat least one of the songs/hymns.
# Posted on July 29th 2006 by nicholas
Re: Decent Church Music
If you want to play decent music for the catholic mass, there is a good SIMPLE MASS which is very easy for both the congregation to sing and musicians to play.
Our music group uses this a lot, it is by an english composer named Val Goldsack and is called 'A simple mass' - we downloaded it free from her website:
http://www.valgoldsack.co.uk/vmassmp3.htm
good luck, Chrissy
# Posted on June 1st 2007 by maidinbritain