Many sites have an FAQ, or Frequently Asked Questions page to address recurring inquiries. More than frequent questions, this forum seems to have a recurring set of Frequent Faux Pas. These are blunders which a newbie invariably makes. Shortly after the blunder, he or she receives a swift proverbial kick-to-the-face, tee hee, flippin heck, have a nice day thrashing... i.e. Welcome to the online world of trad, where we are total asshats. For instance, someone of a certain nationality uses the word _song_ when what he really means is _tune_. Or else a hapless person refers to a session being _performed_. Or even (god forbid, cover your ears, purify yourself, run, duck, pour gasoline over your entire body!) asks where to find _sheet music_. I can't think of more off the top of my head, but this site has so much baggage that an FFP list could be quite extensive, and the constant badgering of newbies here is tiring.
With that in mind, I propose a thread or separate page of this site where these loaded topics are laid out in a POLITE, INFORMATIVE, and even WELCOMING way. Thus, a newbie can simply be pointed to the FFP without any face-kicking or further upsetting of a thread. I predict this would reduce drama and knicker-twisting on thesession.org by exactly 87.2%.
Hi Silver bow, I like the notion of "baggage" - so we need a baggage-handler. Good idea about the FFP. I wouldn't rely on statistics: 74.3% of them are made up.
Or just refer everyone to this book: http://www.frogchartpress.com/fieldguide.html (Field Guide to the Irish Session), which explains the etiquette firmly, with a bit of self-mockery plus nice drawings.
But, but I followed the link to "the session" from the S&M pages on the web - what do you mean you wanna lower the level of abuse??
Seriously though I think there is little reason to abuse anyone- newbies are human too- and nobody was born knowing this stuff. Being other than welcoming will likely only result in chasing away many who could offer much to others at some point.
Besides, I should point out that there are regional differences in what things are called- so yes, I call a tune a tune- but "the dots"- had no clue for awhile what on earth you were referring to here- in my area sheet music is called sheet music- as it is on the session as a matter of fact- ABC's and "Sheet Music" is how the tunes are listed- so to flame someone for calling it that?? So perhaps it would be best to be welcoming and lead by example and create an environment in which all can share what they know and learn from each other.(yeah, yeah I know- and join arms and sing Kumbya together....)
Well Mix, the last invite to join a band was not that tough to figure out where they were seeing as they provided a link to their Myspace page which told you where they were. It doesn't take Special Agent Jethro Gibbs to figure that one out.
I personally fear the day that snarky, smart-alecky comments are not made. They provide a counter-balance to the friendly, helpful answers, and even assist in the education process.
Full speed ahead! Damn the fauxpedoes! Up the snark!
Well , No Cause, the last invite to join a band may have included a link to Myspace, but there have been plenty of other such requests made in the past with zero info on location - neither in the post, nor in the profile!
anything particularly quotworthy from the other site with the chuckles?
I did go through the hastle of registering only to be emailed a form requiring a parental signature. Methinks I managed to click on the "I am under 13 button" by mistake.
#1 F. F. P. ~ Having an opinion on any matter.
#2 F. F. P. ~ Asking a question w/out admitting you are just plan stupid.
#3 F. F. P. ~ Logging on, & posting a comment, the next day.
#4 F. F. P. ~ suggesting FFPs are real.
#5 F. F. P. ~ you get the picture.
see cat, see cats' tail, see cat chase cats' tail.
Welcome aboard mates.
There's the post button!
use it ;)
"Thus, a newbie can simply be pointed to the FFP without any face-kicking or further upsetting of a thread. "
they'll never learn that way
nope, spare the rod and spoil the newbie.
if you want to see people 20 years from now kicking off a "song" called 'Lark in the Morning' by thumbing through a pile of sheet music on the stand in front of them, then go ahead and be nice to them now
my dad beat me with sticks until I learned to call it a "tune" and I turned out alright
"Oh, it just hit me. Perhaps our very own Fauxcelt can assist somehow with the Faux?"
I am sorry but I am afraid that I cannot assist with the Faux because I have only two paws instead of four (as in faux pas). Also, I hope it didn't "hit" you too hard or do any permanent damage.
Before I decided to plunge in and start participating in the discussions, I lurked for a few months and read some of the previous discussions on subjects which I was interested in and knew something about from my own experiences.
For example, the Proper (or Improper) Role Of The Piano in ITM and/or at sessions. After reading through the discussions about piano playing, I decided that the subject of pianos had been so throughly discussed already that there probably wasn't anything new which I could contribute about playing the piano.
Silver bow, your post left me wondering who you thought should write your FFP, if not yourself. If you think it's so important, why don't you draft one that you think is appropriate, or as you put it, "POLITE, INFORMATIVE and even WELCOMING", and then post it here so you can get some constructive feedback on what you've written?
Etiquitte, by definition, can't be enumerated and defined. That's what law and morality are for. Ettiquette is more like something that people don't do to the point that when someone does do it, it creates an awkward moment...but nobody dies or gets pilaged or anything. You're not hurting anyone, really, when you call it a song or ask for sheet music, it's just something you figure out over time, and that comes from experiance, and that includes getting a hard time. If you write something down, it gets the weight of law or something more serious behind it, and it's out of proportion. Plus, a lot of the stuff that will get written down isn't even really ettiquette, it's just the author's personal preference.
Face it ~ you're the new kid on the block. Deal with it you dot-reading, song-playing, piano-accordionist, classically-trained grad student; born in the wrong place, trazzy member #52K +
Boo!
Now before you go back to chiff . . .
Welcome aboard new thesession-mate members.
There's the post button!
help yourself ;)
Before you do though it would behoove you to know that words cannot hurt you ~ unless they do.
In which case take a few deep breaths & think of something humorous to say. Many of our members are not rocket scientists. Now & again your questions may be met with skepticism. Jokes' usually help break the ice.
Certain topics elicit passions in a handful of members. With 1 or 2 members ~ any topic. Don't say I didn't tell ya'. From time to time we have threads receiving multiple postings. We call them *windups*. If you notice one developing & think you have something reasonable to contribute you are free to comment. Personally they make me hungry for popcorn. So food is always an option.
Enjoy the forum. It can be sooo much fun. If anyone seems to get 'a bit out of shape' they probably couldn't think of anything humorous. Or, they may consider their comments to be humorous. Funny world, init?
Just remember it's kinda like MySpace with a simple colored background.
How's that?
Well, there has been much talk here about "faux pas", but not much detail about the multitude of questions that the unwary might ask which might bring those gruff session trolls out of their caves ....
... So, what is the worst "faux pas"?
I'll offer this one as a starter ...
"Could someone please post the abc (or lyrics) of Wild Rover?"
well, no newbie will read anything about etiquette like the links posted here if he/she has to plough through hundreds of threads, 10 new ones every day, which are simply ordered chronologically. People don't often read FAQ's because normally they're only about the technical side of a forum. But many people read through the threads in forums that interest them before posting themselves. thesession just needs a better structure and no more newbie-bashing, that's all there is to it. but i've probably just outed myself as an eternal newbie by not understanding once again the rather particular kind of humour here....
Good point about the chronological organization Mina. Maybe that's a weakness of this site--part of why the same themes keep popping up so often. Forums that are organized by categories and nested threads are so much better for seeing what's already been discussed. And they naturally encourage a person to browse through some of the relevant topics in the sub-forum they're about to post to. Much of the flavor of a discussion forum, its hot points and pet peeves, can be sussed by just glancing through the different categories.
As for this site, all we are met with is the most recent threads. I rarely use the search function, and I doubt others do much either. And searches don't really let us to see the full scope of past discussions (or even give a basic idea of them) since they only return what is asked for. So beyond a couple days back, everything is off the radar. You can't blame newbies for not looking up old threads when the forum isn't really structured for it. And so, it's a lot like throwing them in a shark tank...
I love the organization of this site -- it mimics a real world session so well, with the same discussions tossed around night after night, the dissecting of the world's problems between tunes, the slagging of late arrivals.
There was the person a few years ago, who in trying to defend "reading the dots", used O'Carolan as a justification, until someone pointed out that O'Carolan was blind -
[ although in all fairness, I don't think he was born blind. ]
It hasn't been mentioned at all, but I, along with "ceolachan" and "slainte" to mention but 2 others who immediately spring to mind, will frequently welcome a newcomer to the site - [ faux-pas or not. ]
Come on guys - a web forum isn't like a house where you enter by the front door and wipe your feet on the way in. The internet just doesn't work like that.
I originally found this site while looking for sessions in a place I was visiting. The other day I was searching for info on a banjo mute and a discussion this site came up second on google. A lot of people at sessions will tell you to search for a tune on thesession.org when you ask them what they just played.
So you can see there are lots of ways in - as many as there are people out there.
Nor does it require an obsession with "ITM".
Like many who have frequented Scottish pub sessions for decades, I was unaware that the wider world seems to consider the pub trad music session as an exclusively Irish, or "ITM", phenomenon. Nor was I aware of Jeremy's preamble about "keeping Irish traditional music alive" and did not even read the home page until I had been a member for several years, having apparently come in through one of the side windows without wiping my feet.
So perhaps it's the regulars, who after all should know better, who need a stern word more than the newbies
Actually, while not the most vocal member of this site, I do try to be helpful if I can. My comments were a response to the complaint of reoccurring discussions and organization.
Fidkid, I'd say the search facility works more effectively than any FAQ ever could. For every repetitive question, I'm sure there are a hundred more who have sought and found, and departed without leaving a trace
On another forum I go on, relating to one of my professional interests, the discussion at the top of the list is the one that's had the most recent post; so you can search through old discussions if a subject crops up again and 'bump' it to the top of the list with a short new posting.
Is that feasable here ? It does mean that what grabs people most on a continuing basis is at the top.
Silver Bow, the search function works but you have to use it.
True, some sites are more organized. That comes with the evolution of cyberspace. I use them. They are great.
They rarely give me the sense of *meatspace* found in thesession. There is a reason everything is so simple & direct. It is social.
Not everyone knows that the most recent post is *bumped* to the top under the comments tab.
Same with tunes > comments.
On those the subject box is empty unless you type in the subject.
Looks like I'm the only one still on the thread. Oh well.
that's why they call them random notes. I always read backwards through past threads. I was not here, but I have read when F.F.P.s where just surfacing. It fascinates me to hear how they were handled back in the day. This is an early one from 2001; http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/41/comments#comment538
There are a couple of aspects of the search function that were challenging for me and that I would love to see improved:
- When I search, I end up with a long list of posts from threads, many incarnations of which come from the same thread, which means I might have to read through dozens of pages of search results to end up with a half-dozen relevant threads.
- When I dive twelve pages into the search results, then click on a search result link and read that thread, then use my browser's back button to go back to the search results, it plops me on Page 1 instead of Page 12 or however far I waded in before finding the thread I wanted to follow. I can't just pick up where I left off in the search results list; I have to start at page 1 and wade through 12 pages to get back to where I was, and continue from there. (I forget exactly but, maybe I could jump a few pages ahead each time; still, it was annoying to have to wade at all).
I am not a supergeek and I can't suggest exactly what to do about these things, but I will admit (as a newbie) to having found the search feature rather unwieldy for these two reasons. I gave up about 12 pages in. My computer is not all that fast, so that maybe is a factor in my frustration, but plenty of people have slow computers.
That said, I did about an hour's research before jumping in. Would have done more if it hadn't been unwieldy.
Still, this is a great site, and I found it three ways: 1) Google, 2) a musician friend, and 3) it was recommended by a session regular.
I have no suggestions on the FAQ idea. I did decide NOT to read that Field Guide book because I don't care to read sarcastic newbie-bashing of any kind and I understand there is some of that in there. If my experiences here are not positive and supportive, I won't stick around. We'll see how it goes. So far, so good!
There should be an accept / decline button on entering the site, that readers have read the terms and conditions (FFAQ) and accept responsibility for any subsequent abuse.
Can't see the point of that geoff
a) nobody reads them
b) Jeremy already has the power to kick anyone off the site and doesn't need to provide explanations. A T&C would imply some sort of legal agreement which isn't really what you want for a free, voluntarily-operated site
I hit the post button accidentally! Again!
Amy, I was looking at your hammered dulcimer thread.
I don't know if you emailed ptarmigan yet. The link above is his Sound Lantern page.
The search function is unwieldy. Especially w/ a slow connection.
When you click on a link you can try opening it in a new tab [right click in Firefox] This might help in getting back to the previous page.
Cheers
I only wish the post had an undo button - but then life doesn't have one so why should this site? I really like the chronological organisation too. I've belonged to (and left) many forums where you get the usual organisation by topic. The problem with that is that it imposes the idea that there are "topics" to conversation rather than (as here) that people are free to respond and conversations go in all sorts of directions. I love the way this site is so vibrant - it's wonderful.
So true. Just like the conversations people have in meatspace.
If you think you have a simple question deserving a simple answer ~ think again. Someone is bound to come along & offer their opinion. "I am looking for . . ."
etcetera . . . nothing is simple when you frame it with mustard.
;)
The latest issue;
"Why do we play realllly pretty music at 'lighting speed'. I ask because I am at the point where I can do it...But I don't know Why'?" February 17th 2010 by zippydw
"If your description of Irish music is "really pretty music" then I think you might be missing the whole point. What is the point? I have finally managed to articulate it with great precision, but . . ." February 17th 2010 by Chrishty
TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
Many sites have an FAQ, or Frequently Asked Questions page to address recurring inquiries. More than frequent questions, this forum seems to have a recurring set of Frequent Faux Pas. These are blunders which a newbie invariably makes. Shortly after the blunder, he or she receives a swift proverbial kick-to-the-face, tee hee, flippin heck, have a nice day thrashing... i.e. Welcome to the online world of trad, where we are total asshats. For instance, someone of a certain nationality uses the word _song_ when what he really means is _tune_. Or else a hapless person refers to a session being _performed_. Or even (god forbid, cover your ears, purify yourself, run, duck, pour gasoline over your entire body!) asks where to find _sheet music_. I can't think of more off the top of my head, but this site has so much baggage that an FFP list could be quite extensive, and the constant badgering of newbies here is tiring.
With that in mind, I propose a thread or separate page of this site where these loaded topics are laid out in a POLITE, INFORMATIVE, and even WELCOMING way. Thus, a newbie can simply be pointed to the FFP without any face-kicking or further upsetting of a thread. I predict this would reduce drama and knicker-twisting on thesession.org by exactly 87.2%.
# Posted on January 6th 2009 by polkageist
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
A nice idea, but ...
No matter how comprehensive you FAQ list was, there would still be plenty who wouldn't read it.
Some things should be a matter of plain common sense.
For example, inviting responses from musicians to join your band, without saying which town (or even which country) you live in!
Such folks deserve a mild flaming, as long as it's not abusive.
# Posted on January 6th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
Hi Silver bow, I like the notion of "baggage" - so we need a baggage-handler. Good idea about the FFP. I wouldn't rely on statistics: 74.3% of them are made up.
# Posted on January 6th 2009 by Mark Harmer
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
Or just refer everyone to this book: http://www.frogchartpress.com/fieldguide.html (Field Guide to the Irish Session), which explains the etiquette firmly, with a bit of self-mockery plus nice drawings.
# Posted on January 6th 2009 by saranac
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
But, but I followed the link to "the session" from the S&M pages on the web
- what do you mean you wanna lower the level of abuse??
Seriously though I think there is little reason to abuse anyone- newbies are human too- and nobody was born knowing this stuff. Being other than welcoming will likely only result in chasing away many who could offer much to others at some point.
Besides, I should point out that there are regional differences in what things are called- so yes, I call a tune a tune- but "the dots"- had no clue for awhile what on earth you were referring to here- in my area sheet music is called sheet music- as it is on the session as a matter of fact- ABC's and "Sheet Music" is how the tunes are listed- so to flame someone for calling it that?? So perhaps it would be best to be welcoming and lead by example and create an environment in which all can share what they know and learn from each other.(yeah, yeah I know- and join arms and sing Kumbya together....)
# Posted on January 6th 2009 by fiddlinfarmer
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
Well Mix, the last invite to join a band was not that tough to figure out where they were seeing as they provided a link to their Myspace page which told you where they were. It doesn't take Special Agent Jethro Gibbs to figure that one out.
# Posted on January 6th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
I personally fear the day that snarky, smart-alecky comments are not made. They provide a counter-balance to the friendly, helpful answers, and even assist in the education process.
Full speed ahead! Damn the fauxpedoes! Up the snark!
# Posted on January 6th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
Oh, it just hit me. Perhaps our very own Fauxcelt can assist somehow with the faux? Fauxcelt's Frequent Faux Pas page?
# Posted on January 6th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
This one is good for a few chuckles -
http://www.irishseisiun.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20
# Posted on January 6th 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
I had to register to see your link Jusa, I hope I'm approved for membership! [nervously bites nails]
# Posted on January 6th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
Well , No Cause, the last invite to join a band may have included a link to Myspace, but there have been plenty of other such requests made in the past with zero info on location - neither in the post, nor in the profile!
# Posted on January 6th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
anything particularly quotworthy from the other site with the chuckles?
I did go through the hastle of registering only to be emailed a form requiring a parental signature. Methinks I managed to click on the "I am under 13 button" by mistake.
Baw lux
- Chris
# Posted on January 6th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
People will always want to discuss things person-to-person rather than read lengthy FAQs which are mostly irrelevant to what's on their mind.
That's the whole point of a discussion forum.
# Posted on January 6th 2009 by Bren
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
Most frequently asked question ?
Surely it's "Can you play ' The Fields of Athenry' ? ".
# Posted on January 6th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
#1 F. F. P. ~ Having an opinion on any matter.
#2 F. F. P. ~ Asking a question w/out admitting you are just plan stupid.
#3 F. F. P. ~ Logging on, & posting a comment, the next day.
#4 F. F. P. ~ suggesting FFPs are real.
#5 F. F. P. ~ you get the picture.
see cat, see cats' tail, see cat chase cats' tail.
Welcome aboard mates.
There's the post button!
use it ;)
# Posted on January 6th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
"Thus, a newbie can simply be pointed to the FFP without any face-kicking or further upsetting of a thread. "
they'll never learn that way
nope, spare the rod and spoil the newbie.
if you want to see people 20 years from now kicking off a "song" called 'Lark in the Morning' by thumbing through a pile of sheet music on the stand in front of them, then go ahead and be nice to them now
my dad beat me with sticks until I learned to call it a "tune" and I turned out alright
# Posted on January 6th 2009 by Nate Ryan
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
But were you playing a different tune once you grew bigger than your dad?
# Posted on January 6th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
Wow - sorry all. I didn't realize there was some sort of sign-up for that site. Nevermind, it wasn't that funny anyway....
# Posted on January 6th 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
"Oh, it just hit me. Perhaps our very own Fauxcelt can assist somehow with the Faux?"
I am sorry but I am afraid that I cannot assist with the Faux because I have only two paws instead of four (as in faux pas). Also, I hope it didn't "hit" you too hard or do any permanent damage.
Before I decided to plunge in and start participating in the discussions, I lurked for a few months and read some of the previous discussions on subjects which I was interested in and knew something about from my own experiences.
For example, the Proper (or Improper) Role Of The Piano in ITM and/or at sessions. After reading through the discussions about piano playing, I decided that the subject of pianos had been so throughly discussed already that there probably wasn't anything new which I could contribute about playing the piano.
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
Silver bow, your post left me wondering who you thought should write your FFP, if not yourself. If you think it's so important, why don't you draft one that you think is appropriate, or as you put it, "POLITE, INFORMATIVE and even WELCOMING", and then post it here so you can get some constructive feedback on what you've written?
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by Dr. Dow
~
such a drama queen ;)
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
Yes, "welcome to the dinner party in hell, come right in and take a seat. Do you like well-done or medium rare?"
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
Etiquitte, by definition, can't be enumerated and defined. That's what law and morality are for. Ettiquette is more like something that people don't do to the point that when someone does do it, it creates an awkward moment...but nobody dies or gets pilaged or anything. You're not hurting anyone, really, when you call it a song or ask for sheet music, it's just something you figure out over time, and that comes from experiance, and that includes getting a hard time. If you write something down, it gets the weight of law or something more serious behind it, and it's out of proportion. Plus, a lot of the stuff that will get written down isn't even really ettiquette, it's just the author's personal preference.
Besides, it's obvious it's not a song.
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by Tadhg mac Saoirse
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
That's right - we have pillaging as well as pillorying on the menu tonight.
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
LOL Dow. I'm just a rube from Montana so it probably wouldn't go well. It was more a rhetorical point than actual suggestion anyway.
I'm just saying is all... this can be one of the most uptight web forums I've ever read.
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by polkageist
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
Dow, Silver Bow here's a rough draft;
Face it ~ you're the new kid on the block. Deal with it you dot-reading, song-playing, piano-accordionist, classically-trained grad student; born in the wrong place, trazzy member #52K +
Boo!
Now before you go back to chiff . . .
Welcome aboard new thesession-mate members.
There's the post button!
help yourself ;)
Before you do though it would behoove you to know that words cannot hurt you ~ unless they do.
In which case take a few deep breaths & think of something humorous to say. Many of our members are not rocket scientists. Now & again your questions may be met with skepticism. Jokes' usually help break the ice.
Certain topics elicit passions in a handful of members. With 1 or 2 members ~ any topic. Don't say I didn't tell ya'. From time to time we have threads receiving multiple postings. We call them *windups*. If you notice one developing & think you have something reasonable to contribute you are free to comment. Personally they make me hungry for popcorn. So food is always an option.
Enjoy the forum. It can be sooo much fun. If anyone seems to get 'a bit out of shape' they probably couldn't think of anything humorous. Or, they may consider their comments to be humorous. Funny world, init?
Just remember it's kinda like MySpace with a simple colored background.
How's that?
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
Well, there has been much talk here about "faux pas", but not much detail about the multitude of questions that the unwary might ask which might bring those gruff session trolls out of their caves ....
... So, what is the worst "faux pas"?
I'll offer this one as a starter ...
"Could someone please post the abc (or lyrics) of Wild Rover?"
Anyone think of a worse one?
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
Actually that was a good one;
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/10058
Posted on May 17th 2006 by dafydd
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
well, no newbie will read anything about etiquette like the links posted here if he/she has to plough through hundreds of threads, 10 new ones every day, which are simply ordered chronologically. People don't often read FAQ's because normally they're only about the technical side of a forum. But many people read through the threads in forums that interest them before posting themselves. thesession just needs a better structure and no more newbie-bashing, that's all there is to it. but i've probably just outed myself as an eternal newbie by not understanding once again the rather particular kind of humour here....
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by Mina the Fiddler
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
...what, like keel-hauling or running the gauntlet?
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
Good point about the chronological organization Mina. Maybe that's a weakness of this site--part of why the same themes keep popping up so often. Forums that are organized by categories and nested threads are so much better for seeing what's already been discussed. And they naturally encourage a person to browse through some of the relevant topics in the sub-forum they're about to post to. Much of the flavor of a discussion forum, its hot points and pet peeves, can be sussed by just glancing through the different categories.
As for this site, all we are met with is the most recent threads. I rarely use the search function, and I doubt others do much either. And searches don't really let us to see the full scope of past discussions (or even give a basic idea of them) since they only return what is asked for. So beyond a couple days back, everything is off the radar. You can't blame newbies for not looking up old threads when the forum isn't really structured for it. And so, it's a lot like throwing them in a shark tank...
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by polkageist
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
I love the organization of this site -- it mimics a real world session so well, with the same discussions tossed around night after night, the dissecting of the world's problems between tunes, the slagging of late arrivals.
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by fidkid
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
There was the person a few years ago, who in trying to defend "reading the dots", used O'Carolan as a justification, until someone pointed out that O'Carolan was blind -
[ although in all fairness, I don't think he was born blind. ]
It hasn't been mentioned at all, but I, along with "ceolachan" and "slainte" to mention but 2 others who immediately spring to mind, will frequently welcome a newcomer to the site - [ faux-pas or not. ]
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by Kenny
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
Come on guys - a web forum isn't like a house where you enter by the front door and wipe your feet on the way in. The internet just doesn't work like that.
I originally found this site while looking for sessions in a place I was visiting. The other day I was searching for info on a banjo mute and a discussion this site came up second on google. A lot of people at sessions will tell you to search for a tune on thesession.org when you ask them what they just played.
So you can see there are lots of ways in - as many as there are people out there.
Nor does it require an obsession with "ITM".
Like many who have frequented Scottish pub sessions for decades, I was unaware that the wider world seems to consider the pub trad music session as an exclusively Irish, or "ITM", phenomenon. Nor was I aware of Jeremy's preamble about "keeping Irish traditional music alive" and did not even read the home page until I had been a member for several years, having apparently come in through one of the side windows without wiping my feet.
So perhaps it's the regulars, who after all should know better, who need a stern word more than the newbies
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by Bren
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
And I certainly didn't mean to aim that at Kenny, who is unfailingly helpful, both on here and in real life.
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by Bren
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
Fair enough, good points, damn you Bren.
Actually, while not the most vocal member of this site, I do try to be helpful if I can. My comments were a response to the complaint of reoccurring discussions and organization.
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by fidkid
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
Fidkid, I'd say the search facility works more effectively than any FAQ ever could. For every repetitive question, I'm sure there are a hundred more who have sought and found, and departed without leaving a trace
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by Bren
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
On another forum I go on, relating to one of my professional interests, the discussion at the top of the list is the one that's had the most recent post; so you can search through old discussions if a subject crops up again and 'bump' it to the top of the list with a short new posting.
Is that feasable here ? It does mean that what grabs people most on a continuing basis is at the top.
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
Pete, if you click on the "comments" tab, that's exactly how it works here too
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by Bren
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
Silver Bow, the search function works but you have to use it.
True, some sites are more organized. That comes with the evolution of cyberspace. I use them. They are great.
They rarely give me the sense of *meatspace* found in thesession. There is a reason everything is so simple & direct. It is social.
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by Ben Steen
Recent post bumping ^
Not everyone knows that the most recent post is *bumped* to the top under the comments tab.
Same with tunes > comments.
On those the subject box is empty unless you type in the subject.
# Posted on January 8th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
The other categories are under represented.
I began using the site by reading the tunes comments.
There are also comments (bumped) for recordings, sessions, & events.
The links tab is organized only in the loosest sense of the word.
It has dead links, like any website.
The F.A.Q.'s are worth a read.
You can easily thank the proprietor;
https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_flow&SESSION=98RvtEm2d7AA3Up5LOQmizxxlDzLtZY15SQuQoLF2CGjSb9xe4-dTWqX2jy&dispatch=5885d80a13c0db1f9fecf49521b3f5afc18ba9034b1c79cb454909ae53a8db99
Now about those google maps . . .
;)
# Posted on January 8th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
Looks like I'm the only one still on the thread. Oh well.
that's why they call them random notes. I always read backwards through past threads. I was not here, but I have read when F.F.P.s where just surfacing. It fascinates me to hear how they were handled back in the day. This is an early one from 2001;
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/41/comments#comment538
# Posted on January 8th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
I wandered back in, Random. Nice old thread, thanks for the read.
# Posted on January 8th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
There are a couple of aspects of the search function that were challenging for me and that I would love to see improved:
- When I search, I end up with a long list of posts from threads, many incarnations of which come from the same thread, which means I might have to read through dozens of pages of search results to end up with a half-dozen relevant threads.
- When I dive twelve pages into the search results, then click on a search result link and read that thread, then use my browser's back button to go back to the search results, it plops me on Page 1 instead of Page 12 or however far I waded in before finding the thread I wanted to follow. I can't just pick up where I left off in the search results list; I have to start at page 1 and wade through 12 pages to get back to where I was, and continue from there. (I forget exactly but, maybe I could jump a few pages ahead each time; still, it was annoying to have to wade at all).
I am not a supergeek and I can't suggest exactly what to do about these things, but I will admit (as a newbie) to having found the search feature rather unwieldy for these two reasons. I gave up about 12 pages in. My computer is not all that fast, so that maybe is a factor in my frustration, but plenty of people have slow computers.
That said, I did about an hour's research before jumping in. Would have done more if it hadn't been unwieldy.
Still, this is a great site, and I found it three ways: 1) Google, 2) a musician friend, and 3) it was recommended by a session regular.
I have no suggestions on the FAQ idea. I did decide NOT to read that Field Guide book because I don't care to read sarcastic newbie-bashing of any kind and I understand there is some of that in there. If my experiences here are not positive and supportive, I won't stick around. We'll see how it goes. So far, so good!
# Posted on January 8th 2009 by worthy
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
There should be an accept / decline button on entering the site, that readers have read the terms and conditions (FFAQ) and accept responsibility for any subsequent abuse.
# Posted on January 9th 2009 by geoffwright
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
Can't see the point of that geoff
a) nobody reads them
b) Jeremy already has the power to kick anyone off the site and doesn't need to provide explanations. A T&C would imply some sort of legal agreement which isn't really what you want for a free, voluntarily-operated site
# Posted on January 9th 2009 by Bren
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
Amyamanda, there are many wonderful people here.
There are also a few forum regulars who have a schtick.
The most irritating slags are often 1 liners.
So if you can weather a few sideshows thesession does have members who can nurture your interest in trad.
http://www.soundlantern.com/UpdatedUser.do;jsessionid=6278AD09908A4B0917FC1460F6DACE6F?UsId=310
# Posted on January 9th 2009 by Ben Steen
*
I hit the post button accidentally! Again!
Amy, I was looking at your hammered dulcimer thread.
I don't know if you emailed ptarmigan yet. The link above is his Sound Lantern page.
The search function is unwieldy. Especially w/ a slow connection.
When you click on a link you can try opening it in a new tab [right click in Firefox] This might help in getting back to the previous page.
Cheers
# Posted on January 9th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
I only wish the post had an undo button - but then life doesn't have one so why should this site? I really like the chronological organisation too. I've belonged to (and left) many forums where you get the usual organisation by topic. The problem with that is that it imposes the idea that there are "topics" to conversation rather than (as here) that people are free to respond and conversations go in all sorts of directions. I love the way this site is so vibrant - it's wonderful.
# Posted on January 11th 2009 by Mark Harmer
Frequent Faux Pas
So true. Just like the conversations people have in meatspace.
If you think you have a simple question deserving a simple answer ~ think again. Someone is bound to come along & offer their opinion. "I am looking for . . ."
etcetera . . . nothing is simple when you frame it with mustard.
;)
# Posted on January 11th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P. (Frequent Faux Pas)
The latest issue;
"Why do we play realllly pretty music at 'lighting speed'. I ask because I am at the point where I can do it...But I don't know Why'?" February 17th 2010 by zippydw
"If your description of Irish music is "really pretty music" then I think you might be missing the whole point. What is the point? I have finally managed to articulate it with great precision, but . . ." February 17th 2010 by Chrishty
"Philosophical thread, and one for Jeremy"
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/23841
# Posted on February 19th 2010 by Ben Steen
Re: TheSession.org F.F.P.
Update ~ October 24th 2010
New Music CD..all new tunes
Posted by diddledummusic
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/25839
# Posted on October 25th 2010 by Ben Steen