Does anyone know a method, or of a source which explains how to figure out the chords to a melody? I'd like to record some guitar accompaniment to my fiddle playing.
Cheers!
Rich
i play quite a bit with Kevin's cousin Aidan in and around London (when he's not touring with Comas)
and as a rocky guitarist to another i'd suggest trying 'Open C Sus 2' tuning = CGCGCD
suggest a glider (roller) capo for free wheeling on the fretboard where 2nd fret is your mainstay D _use your ear for the simple chord structures around the usual 1, 4 ,5 and relative minors
just drone if need be in the tonic and your sweet as . . .
There have been a lot of discussions on this, try searching the discussions for the words guitar and chords, and I am sure you will find lots, Start simple, three chords for major tunes in the right place, and even two chords for minor or dorian tunes is enough. Try recording yourself playing melody, and then experiement with some chords. Many tunes have a pretty simple structure, and you will hear what goes best where, Good luck!
Break the tune up into 3 note phrases for Jigs or 4 notes for Reels. Sometimes the phrase is an arpeggio so the chord will be spelt out for you. Often it is a fragment of a scale and the chord tones are on the first and third notes of the phrase e.g. the phrase is DEF#, D and F# are the root and third of Dmajor, so that's almost certainly the chord you want.
Anyway, take the starting note of the phrase. This note will usually be the root, third or fifth of a chord.
So if the note is A, it could be the root of an A major or minor chord, the fifth of a D major or minor chord, the third of an F major chord, or the third of an F# minor chord.
That's six possibilities (though if the tune has an obvious key throughout then some of them can be ruled out as very unlikely, like an Fmajor or Aminor chord in the key of Dmaj). Try them all and see which one sounds right.
Read my profile, we have a similar past as far as rock and roll (I was the lead guitar player for the Magic Mushrooms), leaving music (I stopped playing for 37 years), and current experience (I've been playing for 2 years). Oh, I we both live in Massachusetts.
As far as backing chords go, start with this tip. Use your ears, listen to the music. Most books with chords or even most backing players, do not use all the chords that fit the music. When I first started to play, I kept hearing chord changes that were not in any books or being played by most guitar players. I substitute chords frequently, and often play different progressions during the same tune.
Most Irish tunes are the 1,4 and 5 chords; however, there are chords kind of in between that are appropriate.
In the key of Dmaj, D, G and A chords work pretty well most times. Often you can also add an Emin chord. A nice run that works is D, F#min, Bmin, D, G, Bmin, Emin, A. That run kinds of walks the base notes down, much like DADGAD. I should add I play in standard tuning. You can use this run in G as well transposing it for G.
Another common key, as mentioned by someone before, is Emin, D. I still don't know if that is in the key of D or Emin, but you can toss in Emin, G, Bmin and D chords with those tunes as well.
In tunes that start with Amin, go to G, often to Emin. You can substitute an F for the Amin chord as well.
In the key of G, it's the 1,4, 5 progression, but you can also an Emin and Amin for variety.
Again, I just listen and throw chords in when it seems appropriate. I am no expert, and it has been a struggle, but listening and playing lots of sessions and experimenting and asking questions is the way I have learned.
I play 4-5 sessions a week, have my own here in Shelburne Falls. If you ever get out this way (Amherdt/Northampton) give me a holler.
Hi Rich,
Some great advice here already. Here's some of the basics I've found out from my own playing:
1. Work on the rhythm! In trad, you can really get a great sound out of many tunes with just 3 (or even two as Al Brown mentioned) chords, if you have a good rhythm.
Since you've already played rock guitar & you're playing fiddle for a while, you probably have
some ideas for rhythm, but I would recommend starting with:
reels:
1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &
D u d u D u d u (where "D" is emphasised)
jigs:
1 & 2 & 3 &
D u d D u d
2. A lot of Irish tunes are only in a couple of key signatures. I'd say at least 90% of the common
tunes are in the key of either D (F#, C#) or G (F#).
With that in mind, in a D key, the following 6 chords are "in key":
D, Em, F#m, G, A, Bm
in a G key, the following 6 are "in key":
G, Am, Bm, C, D, Em
Play around with those to begin with, and see which fit.
3. There are 4 "modes" commonly used in trad: major, minor, dorian & mixolydian.
For the moment don't worry too much about them (look them up later) - instead check the key signature. Then listen to the tune. If it sounds kind of "sad" then it's probably minor or dorian, so try and use some minor chords. If it sounds kind of "upbeat", then it's probably major or mixolydian, so use mostly major chords. If it's incredibly "upbeat", then it's definitely major or mixolydian, and don't use any minor chords at all! ;)
4. Break up the tune into phrases as Mike suggested. Work/find out what notes are in each of the appropriate 6 chords, e.g., Gmaj = G, B, D. And see if you can get a good match for your phrases. Occasionally, you will get a very good match, but usually, you'll only have 1 or 2 notes, and there will actually be several "valid" matches! That is part of the reason, why there is no "correct chord sequence" for an Irish tune! Try them all out, and see what you like best. And don't be afraid to change it on the 2nd repeat!
5. Once you have a rough outline, forget about all the theory & just listen to the tune! The chords should in general, be unobtrusive, so if a chord you play stands out from the melody, try changing it. This is a melody music, so backing should be in the "back"ground!
This is an important point - try & concentrate on it! REALLY listen to make sure the chord doesn't "take over" the tune...
6. Also remember, methods are only useful as a jumping board. Don't rely on a method.
And, PLEASE, don't ever assume that you know the "right chords", cause there aren't any! It's not like playing U2, or Coldplay or something. This music is melodic, rather than harmonic in nature, so any chords you apply are somewhat artificial in nature.
But, it can sometimes sound good.
7. The above points ignore things like key changes, changes in rhythm, etc. So, when you've worked out chords for a few tunes that sound nice (& unobtrusive), try & look in more detail to how the melody of the tune "moves" and changes. It's hard to describe, but worth trying. Fortunately, you've already been playing a melody instrument, so you should have a good feeling for the tunes by now (I started backing first & it took me a while to start noticing subtleties), but, there are ways of thinking of a melody in terms of backing that only come with practice...
8. Work on the rhythm! ;) Seriously - that's the most important bit!
9. Sorry, I was wrong! Listen to the music - that's the most important bit!
Also, as Al Brown mentioned, have a search through the archive of discussions. There seems to be a similar one every couple of weeks! ;)
Unfortunately, setting chords to a melody is not an exact science - particularly so in the case of Irish and other traditional tunes that were not originally intended to have any accompaniment.
Having said that, it's useful to have an understanding of the four main modes that are used, and the chords that are appropriate to each of these. I've covered this in some detail on my website, which you may perhaps find useful.
My site also carries around 100 tune examples, each with suggested guitar chords.
As someone has already commented, your ear should tell you whether you are getting it right or not. And as a melody player, you'll have a much better chance of getting it right than someone who is merely a backer.
A lot of good advice already, but I would take issue with Ronan on his first point; DuDuDuDu is NOT a good rhythm for accompanying reels. Why not ? Because it's too much. I call this means of accompaniment "stirring the pudding". It's just relentless and overfills the backing. Learn to leave out beats, and know when to emphasize the rhythm and when to leave the gaps.
Sorry Pete (& Rich)! I was writing without a guitar at hand, and to be fair it was past my bedtime! ;)
Now that I try & transcribe my "basic" reel rhythm, I actually do something like this:
On the "1 &" and "3 &", I just play the bass strings, and then on the "2 &" and "4 &", I gently strum the whole chord.
It's hard to describe (I'm not sure if I have!), but that way can give a nice, subtle backing to use as a basis.
This is just one way, but it's one that I find myself using quite frequently. Have a look around for different ways - I think there's some interesting beginning rhythm ideas on the internet for the bouzouki
As Pete says (& I was alluding to in point 7 of my previous post), you should learn to leave out beats, and listen to the tune, and try to "feel" when to emphasise & when to fade out. And interestingly, you'll find one of the best ways to emphasise is actually to stop strumming!
But, BEFORE you start doing that, make sure you have a couple of basic rhythms for (at least) reels & jigs ingrained into your system. Then when your right hand "doesn't have to think about" the strumming, you can start to think about breaking the patterns. But, it took me a couple of months, before I was able to do that, whilst keeping the rhythm going!
Though having that, I did suggest Dudu Dudu, rather than DuDuDuDu, as Pete claimed, as in "emphasise the 1st and 3rd beats".
Youbetter - the last two comments above serve to illustrate that the use of any default accompaniment style all the way through the tune would probably knock the character out of it!
In particular, default rhythm styles don't work with polkas - take the beginning of "John Ryans" as one example.
However (as with the selection of appropriate chords) I think that your knowledge gained as a melody player will give you a big advantage over others who have only played as backers.
Thanks to everybody for your responses. This is all a great help to me. Trad lovers are the nicest people on the planet.
Well...Mother Theresa gets a nod, too.
accompanying trad tunes on guitar
accompanying trad tunes on guitar
Does anyone know a method, or of a source which explains how to figure out the chords to a melody? I'd like to record some guitar accompaniment to my fiddle playing.
Cheers!
Rich
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by Youbetter
Re: accompanying trad tunes on guitar
Which backers do you like listening to?
guitar, bouzouki . . .
Are you not playing in a session?
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: accompanying trad tunes on guitar
i play quite a bit with Kevin's cousin Aidan in and around London (when he's not touring with Comas)
and as a rocky guitarist to another i'd suggest trying 'Open C Sus 2' tuning = CGCGCD
suggest a glider (roller) capo for free wheeling on the fretboard where 2nd fret is your mainstay D _use your ear for the simple chord structures around the usual 1, 4 ,5 and relative minors
just drone if need be in the tonic and your sweet as . . .
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by lisaniska
Re: accompanying trad tunes on guitar
There have been a lot of discussions on this, try searching the discussions for the words guitar and chords, and I am sure you will find lots, Start simple, three chords for major tunes in the right place, and even two chords for minor or dorian tunes is enough. Try recording yourself playing melody, and then experiement with some chords. Many tunes have a pretty simple structure, and you will hear what goes best where, Good luck!
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by AlBrown
Re: accompanying trad tunes on guitar
Here's my suggestion.
Break the tune up into 3 note phrases for Jigs or 4 notes for Reels. Sometimes the phrase is an arpeggio so the chord will be spelt out for you. Often it is a fragment of a scale and the chord tones are on the first and third notes of the phrase e.g. the phrase is DEF#, D and F# are the root and third of Dmajor, so that's almost certainly the chord you want.
Anyway, take the starting note of the phrase. This note will usually be the root, third or fifth of a chord.
So if the note is A, it could be the root of an A major or minor chord, the fifth of a D major or minor chord, the third of an F major chord, or the third of an F# minor chord.
That's six possibilities (though if the tune has an obvious key throughout then some of them can be ruled out as very unlikely, like an Fmajor or Aminor chord in the key of Dmaj). Try them all and see which one sounds right.
Have fun.
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by Mike Floorstand
Re: accompanying trad tunes on guitar
your ears are the force _use them and they won't fail you
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by hungry grass
Re: accompanying trad tunes on guitar
Hey Rich,
Read my profile, we have a similar past as far as rock and roll (I was the lead guitar player for the Magic Mushrooms), leaving music (I stopped playing for 37 years), and current experience (I've been playing for 2 years). Oh, I we both live in Massachusetts.
As far as backing chords go, start with this tip. Use your ears, listen to the music. Most books with chords or even most backing players, do not use all the chords that fit the music. When I first started to play, I kept hearing chord changes that were not in any books or being played by most guitar players. I substitute chords frequently, and often play different progressions during the same tune.
Most Irish tunes are the 1,4 and 5 chords; however, there are chords kind of in between that are appropriate.
In the key of Dmaj, D, G and A chords work pretty well most times. Often you can also add an Emin chord. A nice run that works is D, F#min, Bmin, D, G, Bmin, Emin, A. That run kinds of walks the base notes down, much like DADGAD. I should add I play in standard tuning. You can use this run in G as well transposing it for G.
Another common key, as mentioned by someone before, is Emin, D. I still don't know if that is in the key of D or Emin, but you can toss in Emin, G, Bmin and D chords with those tunes as well.
In tunes that start with Amin, go to G, often to Emin. You can substitute an F for the Amin chord as well.
In the key of G, it's the 1,4, 5 progression, but you can also an Emin and Amin for variety.
Again, I just listen and throw chords in when it seems appropriate. I am no expert, and it has been a struggle, but listening and playing lots of sessions and experimenting and asking questions is the way I have learned.
I play 4-5 sessions a week, have my own here in Shelburne Falls. If you ever get out this way (Amherdt/Northampton) give me a holler.
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by Celtic Guitar
Re: accompanying trad tunes on guitar
I did the Xmas week ?
Its an Mp3 me and a fiddler from holland done - jim,,
Its an mp3 - but you could use and Mp3 of your Playing Too!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NgvKs9tuvcY&feature=channel_page
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by FIDDLE4
Re: accompanying trad tunes on guitar
Hi Rich,
Some great advice here already. Here's some of the basics I've found out from my own playing:
1. Work on the rhythm! In trad, you can really get a great sound out of many tunes with just 3 (or even two as Al Brown mentioned) chords, if you have a good rhythm.
Since you've already played rock guitar & you're playing fiddle for a while, you probably have
some ideas for rhythm, but I would recommend starting with:
reels:
1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &
D u d u D u d u (where "D" is emphasised)
jigs:
1 & 2 & 3 &
D u d D u d
2. A lot of Irish tunes are only in a couple of key signatures. I'd say at least 90% of the common
tunes are in the key of either D (F#, C#) or G (F#).
With that in mind, in a D key, the following 6 chords are "in key":
D, Em, F#m, G, A, Bm
in a G key, the following 6 are "in key":
G, Am, Bm, C, D, Em
Play around with those to begin with, and see which fit.
3. There are 4 "modes" commonly used in trad: major, minor, dorian & mixolydian.
For the moment don't worry too much about them (look them up later) - instead check the key signature. Then listen to the tune. If it sounds kind of "sad" then it's probably minor or dorian, so try and use some minor chords. If it sounds kind of "upbeat", then it's probably major or mixolydian, so use mostly major chords. If it's incredibly "upbeat", then it's definitely major or mixolydian, and don't use any minor chords at all! ;)
4. Break up the tune into phrases as Mike suggested. Work/find out what notes are in each of the appropriate 6 chords, e.g., Gmaj = G, B, D. And see if you can get a good match for your phrases. Occasionally, you will get a very good match, but usually, you'll only have 1 or 2 notes, and there will actually be several "valid" matches! That is part of the reason, why there is no "correct chord sequence" for an Irish tune! Try them all out, and see what you like best. And don't be afraid to change it on the 2nd repeat!
5. Once you have a rough outline, forget about all the theory & just listen to the tune! The chords should in general, be unobtrusive, so if a chord you play stands out from the melody, try changing it. This is a melody music, so backing should be in the "back"ground!
This is an important point - try & concentrate on it! REALLY listen to make sure the chord doesn't "take over" the tune...
6. Also remember, methods are only useful as a jumping board. Don't rely on a method.
And, PLEASE, don't ever assume that you know the "right chords", cause there aren't any! It's not like playing U2, or Coldplay or something. This music is melodic, rather than harmonic in nature, so any chords you apply are somewhat artificial in nature.
But, it can sometimes sound good.
7. The above points ignore things like key changes, changes in rhythm, etc. So, when you've worked out chords for a few tunes that sound nice (& unobtrusive), try & look in more detail to how the melody of the tune "moves" and changes. It's hard to describe, but worth trying. Fortunately, you've already been playing a melody instrument, so you should have a good feeling for the tunes by now (I started backing first & it took me a while to start noticing subtleties), but, there are ways of thinking of a melody in terms of backing that only come with practice...
8. Work on the rhythm! ;) Seriously - that's the most important bit!
9. Sorry, I was wrong! Listen to the music - that's the most important bit!
Also, as Al Brown mentioned, have a search through the archive of discussions. There seems to be a similar one every couple of weeks! ;)
- Ronan
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by -ronan-
Re: accompanying trad tunes on guitar
Unfortunately, setting chords to a melody is not an exact science - particularly so in the case of Irish and other traditional tunes that were not originally intended to have any accompaniment.
Having said that, it's useful to have an understanding of the four main modes that are used, and the chords that are appropriate to each of these. I've covered this in some detail on my website, which you may perhaps find useful.
http://www.intermix.freeuk.com/
My site also carries around 100 tune examples, each with suggested guitar chords.
As someone has already commented, your ear should tell you whether you are getting it right or not. And as a melody player, you'll have a much better chance of getting it right than someone who is merely a backer.
Good luck!
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: accompanying trad tunes on guitar
Chris Smith's book/cd:
http://www.melbay.com/product.asp?ProductID=97205BCD
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by oldstrings
Re: accompanying trad tunes on guitar
A lot of good advice already, but I would take issue with Ronan on his first point; DuDuDuDu is NOT a good rhythm for accompanying reels. Why not ? Because it's too much. I call this means of accompaniment "stirring the pudding". It's just relentless and overfills the backing. Learn to leave out beats, and know when to emphasize the rhythm and when to leave the gaps.
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: accompanying trad tunes on guitar
Sorry Pete (& Rich)! I was writing without a guitar at hand, and to be fair it was past my bedtime! ;)
Now that I try & transcribe my "basic" reel rhythm, I actually do something like this:
On the "1 &" and "3 &", I just play the bass strings, and then on the "2 &" and "4 &", I gently strum the whole chord.
It's hard to describe (I'm not sure if I have!), but that way can give a nice, subtle backing to use as a basis.
This is just one way, but it's one that I find myself using quite frequently. Have a look around for different ways - I think there's some interesting beginning rhythm ideas on the internet for the bouzouki
As Pete says (& I was alluding to in point 7 of my previous post), you should learn to leave out beats, and listen to the tune, and try to "feel" when to emphasise & when to fade out. And interestingly, you'll find one of the best ways to emphasise is actually to stop strumming!
But, BEFORE you start doing that, make sure you have a couple of basic rhythms for (at least) reels & jigs ingrained into your system. Then when your right hand "doesn't have to think about" the strumming, you can start to think about breaking the patterns. But, it took me a couple of months, before I was able to do that, whilst keeping the rhythm going!
Though having that, I did suggest Dudu Dudu, rather than DuDuDuDu, as Pete claimed, as in "emphasise the 1st and 3rd beats".
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by -ronan-
Re: accompanying trad tunes on guitar
Youbetter - the last two comments above serve to illustrate that the use of any default accompaniment style all the way through the tune would probably knock the character out of it!
In particular, default rhythm styles don't work with polkas - take the beginning of "John Ryans" as one example.
However (as with the selection of appropriate chords) I think that your knowledge gained as a melody player will give you a big advantage over others who have only played as backers.
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: accompanying trad tunes on guitar
Thanks to everybody for your responses. This is all a great help to me. Trad lovers are the nicest people on the planet.
Well...Mother Theresa gets a nod, too.
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by Youbetter