Oh yes, not me. Never. [rolls eyes] Usually people don't just walk up to someone they don't know and start banging away for no reason. Usually there's a prelude of some sort, it can even be something so stupid as bumping into some eejit drunkard who loses his cool, hollers and screams, then waits and lurks.
It's not a lot of fun for these chuckleheads if they don't have a idiotic, imaginary, useless reason for their moronic violence. "He stepped on my shoe!" "He looked at me funny!"
Mr. Hill isn't exactly Mr. Universe, so my question perhaps is why would some drunken testosterone-blinded eejit choose to take out his frustration at his own pathetic existence on a 50 year old concertina-playing gent who looks like he wouldn't hurt a fly?
Ah well. Just wondering out loud at stupidity, that's all.
I know, but it's not like it's anywhere unusual if a drunk beats up someone in an Irish pub for no specific reason and it's feckin christmas, hardly a time to avoid drunks.
I remember one late night when one famous musician whacked a bouzoukiplayer (I'll leave them anonimous). Tom Munnelly, sitting at the bar, commented 'that's not a fight, that's two Corkmen having words' (or something along those lines.
If you are a musician playing in a pub you are fair game for every dosser who wants to start something. That is where a good Guv' comes into his own and nips any potential trouble in the bud. Problem is with musicians, it's fear of getting their instrument damaged that is foremost in their minds.
Not much different here lads, insert your favorite dumb Yank joke here.
I dunno, perhaps I'm just used to seeing huge drunken steroid heads beating each other senseless to the delight of make-up smeared preening girls. At least the bodybuilders have the decency to go after their own kind, not the spindly gray-haired musician-types. Real macho. Who's next, Ace? Granda? Feh.
According to all articles Hill was 'out with friends' nowhere it says he was playing.
Anything can have triggered this. Nowhere there was talk of 'bodybuilders'. And Hill emanates enough testosterone to get on peoples tits. Not that that makes it any less disgusting.
He is a fine musician. I agree Free Reed, the Guv' needs to ensure the patrons he is looking out for them. Especially now. I cannot speak for what happened in the pub. I was not there. These things can happen fast. Try to keep your wits about you.
Noel, I wish you the best & a speedy recovery.
Anything? I beg to differ. There's one cause. Stupidity. Who said violence was a lack of imagination? Someone should have. It's a failure it what it is.
I hope that's true macc - hopefully he's fine, and he'll ditch Connemara and spend more time in the US. I know a few wayward concertina players who would love to have his guidance.
The very best wishes to Noel for a speedy and full recovery, and hope there'll be no lingering physical, or mental, after-effects.
As people here have noted, there's really not much logic to pub fights at all; they can shift from semi-humorous to dramatic to absurd in a matter of minutes. Some years ago at a pub in Central Massachusetts, I once observed two rather portly middle-aged gentlemen with longish hair (exceeded by the length of their beards), grappling with each other in a booth; Gentleman No. 1, who had the upper hand, roared at Gentleman No. 2 thusly: "Don't you call my @#$%in' house at 2 in the @#$%in' morning!"
Cooler heads prevailed, order was restored, and in about half an hour's time I observed the two gentlemen sitting next to each other, glasses raised. Gentleman No. 1 clapped Gentleman No. 2 on the back, and laughed to their table mates: "Ya know what this #$%in' guy did? He called my @#$%in' house at two in the @#$%in' morning!"
Horrible news. In case you hear tell of this thread Noel, and in the hope of raising a smile, donkey's years ago my wife and I were regularly travelling up and down the country, and passing through Warwickshire on the way (or was it Worcestershire?), and whenever we drove through Knoll Hill, we raised our voices in toast of your playing. Get well soon. And a better new year to one and all.
This report came as a great shock and Noel will be in the thoughts and prayers of aspiring box players worldwide. I learned a huge amount from him and wish him a speedy recovery.
Yes I have, I seem to have made myself clear..unless you want me to print my name and adress,.
People get p*ssed off when they do work and dont get paid for it!
Now that is all I am going to say on the matter!
Depends, if children went hungry over the Christmas, with no money, or had no Santa..Hard to know how to settle a debt, different people have different methods!!
I have no idea why Noel Hill would not pay for work he had agreed to. Hopefully there is documentation & not just a verbal arrangement. There must have been an angry, & poor, worker who felt obliged to teach Mr. Hill a lesson. Which is sad for the families on both sides. Bottom line is the builder is solely responsible for agreement of the terms of billing & payment.
Noel Hill has every right to bring charges. Certainly that cannot help the worker.
I am not here to argue with any one, I am totally against violence..bottom line..But people like Noel Hill dont get set upon for no reason when he walks into a pub. I dont know anything about the legal matters. But there will be charges brought against this man, rightly so;
Just thought people would like to know what caused the argument, that is all;
Me too--I'm a bit embarrassed now, wasn't really any of my business, curiosity just got the better of me. (Probably should have sent an email instead. So I'm a snoop, and lazy besides.)
But as Random_notes pointed out, posting a complaint on a public forum is a better way to go, for that kind of problem. I suppose you could still go to jail, if libel can be proved, but at least nobody needs an ambulance.
People read tabloid newspapers for the gossip and I enjoy the thrill of it too. But the newspapers know this and they enhance the gossip by misrepresentation. "XXX wears dirty knickers..." probably means the celebrity lost her luggage at Heathrow.
In this light the statement by Boss "...When people do work for you, you should pay them!! Nobody gets beaten up for no reason!!..." infers a particular, simple and logical course of events. Leaving aside that the true story is likely to be much more complicated, this posting might be actionable in some jurisdictions.
It is interesting the line contains two statements. The first is undoubtedly true but leaves no room for complications such as substandard work, the second is undoubtedly untrue, but hanging on the coat tails of the first statement it gains credibility. Classic stuff...
Violence is very uncommon in Connemara pubs, I have been going into Connemara pubs for many a year and I have heard plenty of music and had loads of craic, but never saw a violent incident of any note; Neither did I hear any incident making the headlines of any news or news paper.
This incident was not a brawl, nobody got hit by accident, there was plenty of rumors out before this happened about court proceedings;
The only thing that amazes me is that the Victim of the Physical assault (not the victim of the unpayment assault) had the courage to go into the place at all; So if you all prefer to believe that the man got beaten up for his music playing, carry on, it will all come out eventually;
Going by this and your previous posts, it sounds like you had something to do with it, Boss. If you didn't, why condone acts of violence? If whatever it is is going through a court of law, who do you think you are to condone or maybe support or even perpetrate acts of violence? Just in case you need reminding, we don't live like animals or cavemen any longer. All the processes of civilisation including the law have evolved over several thousand years for everyones' mutual benefit, and we should in the first instance defer to that authority, otherwise we're no better than bacteria.
Why you want to post a justification of an act of violence, which even if what you say is true, is supposed retribution for what probably only amounts to a few hundred or thousand euros, is beyond me.
If you have anything to do with this, just remember that it is the intelligentsia, the artists musicians scientists poets who bring about positive changes in human society, not the thick violent knobheads like Hitler and by the sound of it yourself who would have the human condition reduced to vile creatures who would eat each others' sh!te. You need to get out more in intelligent company, not be part of a pack of wolves.
bodhran bliss said: "A normal day, in a normal pub in Ireland, country of a "hundred thousand welcomes"."
There is far less violence in Ireland than in other countries-- especially less than in the US and England. Ireland doesn't drop bombs on other countries the way the US and the UK have done. Nor license hand-guns as in the US.
-------------
Alf said: "...it sounds like you had something to do with it, Boss. If you didn't, why condone acts of violence?"
This isn't fair. Theboss specifically said that he didn't condone the violence. Moreover, nothing Boss said implied that he was involved. Only that he knew more than what appeared in the papers. Of course there is more to it all. Noel is a great player but he is not a saint. What happened had nothing to do with music. Alf Tupper's post is unfair and unenlightening. Am I too considered part of a pack of wolves now?
No, didn't mean that. Just that some of the things being said here could be of great interest to lawyers and/or courts in any later proceedings, I would have thought.
OK, cocus, point taken, apologies where necesary, so why attempt to justify such an act violence, at all? If he said he didn't condone violence why be an apologist for any form of violence. Boss, make your mind up.
And duijera, cop on, what lawyer could possibly be interested in some web chat like this, please tell me.
Jeez man. So if a serious crime was committed somewhere (which there could well have been in this case), and someone gets on a website forum and says they know more about it, you don't think lawyers - and the police - would be interested in that?
About 10 people use this computer... They all go by the name THE BOSS.. There is a little law about journalists not having to reveal their sources!!! Carry on grass me all you want!! First you have to find out which of us used the computer...Who the BOSS really is, And last but not least Are these lies or is it the truth!! No worries here!!!
And Tupper, You seem more in tune with the HItler method, than me any day: Running to the Gestapo to report a man for joining in a discussion we enjoy because of our democratic freedom of speech;
You would fit nicely into Hitler's plans.....one version of events! Report anyone who says differently!
I think The Tupper meant the Wolves and Canibals remark, for the CONNEMARA people, which I take as an Ignorant, racist remark!
I am not originally from Connemara, but I have lots of friends here and I have lived here and got to know the people, and remarks like that, about them, is totally out of order, and just shows the lack of education behind such remarks;
You coward.
Since when did suggesting to report knowledge of a crime constitute running to the gestapo? You're scared now. If you had nothing to hide you wouldn't be. All 10 of you.
The Hitler method? Huh...you really haven't a clue have you.
Getting back to the original topic, if any of the 10 of you know more than has been reported about the assaukt on Noel Hill, come clean and let the law deal with it. I don't know any details about defaulting on payment on building work, at all, apart from what I've just read here, but it seems to me someone is being disingenuous. Slag me if you want, but violence gets on my proverbials - that's not to say I have seen or dealt my fair share of it, no joke. I've done many a round of it, but I hate to see it foisted on an unwelcoming recipient.
I just picked up the last remark from the boss. Twisting it - how pathetic to accuse me of being racist towards Connemara people. Until recently I played in a session in a pub which was a haunt of Connemara people so puh-lease......don't even go there. OK, I'm off out for a new years day sesh, probably about 6-8 hours worth, so you will have plenty more time to slag me now. Go on do yer best you saddos.
Relax Tupper, mind that blood pressure!! Was wrong, I think it is 20 that use the computer, and it is a public computer, so could be any one!!!
Just what I mean about this great democracy, and journalist laws.
God Is that the squad car I see pulling up!!!!
Tupper, Your not too bad at twisting things yourself, calling people Nazis, and saying people condone violence, when it was written in front of you, that I dont!
So if you give it..be prepared to take it!!
I'm perfectly relaxed, boss, all 20 of you.(BTW, it strikes me what the F... are twenty "musicians" doing huddled round the one computer on New Years Day...? have yes nothing better to do fer fux ache?) If that's the squad car and you 20 lads are innocent so should you be. Now as for that session... the Blythe SE London, fancy joining us for a tune or twenty?
Yep. Still here. But not for long. Off out in a minute.
I did post an apology to anyone who thought they had been falsely accused, and I have no issues with repeating that:
So here goes,
Sorry to anyone I have falsely accused.
OK?
But it did sadden me deeply to learn of Noel Hill's assault. I used to fight regularly as a hobby when I was a lad. I got mugged (and fought the cvnts off) a few years ago, and I notice when you get older it takes ages to recover both physicaly and emotionally, so all I'm saying is this. If someone out of the 20 of ye know something more than has been reported, why don't you report it?
Report What??? Everybody here knows what happened; There is no need for Sherlock Holmes or anything!
It is you who is talking about reporting people for writing into this website!
Just because I wrote in, doesen't mean I want to end up being a witness in a court case or end up having to give statments to Gardai;
The dogs in the street knows what the row was about, in the aerea it happened in;
I dont know what all the fuss is about; By the way he was not mugged, robbery was not the motive!
Now I hope I wont be Extradited from the US, for this bloody court case..
ive been reading through these comments and your story seems to change whenever its conveniences you. first you leave ambiguous messages suggesting you know who was involved in the crime. you leave messages showing that you know more information on the crime than the newspapers.
you go on to say that around 10 of you (who this 10 refers to we don't know) use the computer. then you go on to say that it is actually around 20. there's a big difference between the two numbers now, you are talking about DOUBLE the original number you mentioned. thats quite a lot. not too good at judging crowds are we?
you talk about journalists not having to give up their sources. sorry but anyone who knows me will tell ive studied journalism on dcu and i know (and actually anyone worth their salt would know) that giving up sources only applies to people who are actually journalists and if you are a journalist you would know this only applies to sources used in a story. coming onto a public forum like this doesn't count. if you use the information that was originally only supposed to be used for a story on this site then you are breaking the code which you so staunchly stand by.
and if you are a journalist then why on earth would 20 of you be using one computer that is if it is a computer in your office, and why would you all use one log on name. you're either bull-s h i t t i n g or you work in the world's worst newsroom.
regardless of how many you are you can all be found guilty of aiding and abetting if you have information leading to this persons identity. identifying which of the '20' of you typed the information doesnt matter, you can all be convicted.
you also go on to say you live in Boston. up until then your comments suggested heavily you were from the said are and knew quite a lot about it. how someone living in Boston came to find out this information good only knows. kinda convenient that you only mention this when people start to look closely at your comments. i think you just started to panic and realised what you did and tried to undermine your own comments. then you tried focussing on something someone else said and tried to blow it out of proportion to shift the focus from you. its textbook.
you also try to cover you're tracks by saying is this lies or is it the truth. sorry, but you can't fool everyone. you can't just realise the folly of what you did and then try to claim it as lies. you're using every trick in the book, you're the worlds worst actor. form you're comments it seems that you're probably only very young, or either just very immature. 'Thank god for those journalist laws', they're not actually 'law'. just a code of ethics that journalists should follow, but seeing as you are a journalist you would know this, wouldn't you? thats is if you are a journalist otherwise these dont apply to you, referring back to my original remarks on that topic.
as for my own opinion, i think you're full of s h i t and should go to the police if you do know something or its you who will be up sh itcreek.
now im no 'sherlock holmes' as you so elequently put it, but i know when i smell BS and you reek of it.
just to enforce that, stop filling this page with bull. you might be able to fool others but you cant pull the wool over my eyes. you're so full of crap you cant see the wood for the trees mate. make up stories somewhere else, you've been reading too many fairytales.
Gosh I was not in the pub but would think Noel Hill & at least one of his company would be capable of identifying who beat him.
Does anyone on the forum know this to be a faulty assumption.
This "discussion" is getting badly out of order. Not a good omen for the New Year. It seems to me that the best solution would be to delete all posts made here after Geoff Wright's post of 31 December.
Fiddleruari, You are the one writing the long, long, long letters of BS..God I often heard the truth hurts, but this discussion is certainly proof of that.
Now what the Gardai will have to figure out, as far as I have been informed, is..Who started this row? (The row took place in the Gents Toilet) Were there any witnesses in the Gents toilet at the time? Was it self defence? Who threw the first punch?
Now these will be the arguments in court; I dont think anybody will be too worried about why anybody punched anybody! The court case wont be about whether anybody owed anybody money; The investigation is into an assault on Noel in a Gents toilet in a Connemara Pub; As the law prohibits cctv in toilets, the statments of all the people (Witnesses) in the toilet at the time, will have to provide the answers for all of us;
Now insulting me, wont change any of that.
The reason I brought 10,20, Public computers and other matters into the discussion, was to knock the little pathetic argument of legal issues brought into it on the head; I know a bit about the law and journalism, so trying to frighten me with that BS wont wash;
So I wonder who did throw the first punch???
It's a very tricky site. Many good people use the forum. There are people on board very concerned when any musician is injured. The circumstances (both true & assumed) can so compound a bad situation. I hope I am not alone in saying, again, the best to all.
I include everyone who has expressed your thoughts.
lazyhound, I do get your point.
Cheers!
Good new year
Thanks Jeremy. I'll try & get on with discussing trad.
In my observation of these sorts of legal stoushes over many years, what comes as a surprise to many people is that two (at least) separate matters can flow from an assault. One is the police investigation (the criminal matter) which might or might not lead to a fine or imprisonment, probably depending on the severity of the assault and/or the premeditated nature of it (or not), and secondly, which most people overlook, is the possibility of a civil action for damages.
They're the sorts of cases you hear about where a victim wins their case and gets awarded, ahm, you know something like one million euros, dollars, whatever in damages - for personal injury, lost income, lost career opportunities, etc, again probably depending on the nature of the injuries and/or damage sustained which can be proved. In a very litigious country, as the U.S. and others, maybe Britain as well (I don't know where Ireland stands in this range), judgements for damages can be really steep, even ruinous.
Insofar as I understand it, the standard of proof in a criminal case is proof "beyond reasonable doubt" and the standard of proof in a civil case is "on the balance of probabilities". These suggest to me that the proof doesn't even have to be absolutely 100% watertight - just "beyond doubt" or "probably".
That's the danger people. If there is a legal dispute about something - take it to court if it can't get solved informally and between gentlemen. It's then nothing personal, just business. It'll probably get settled by agreement on the court steps anyway, so these things most often don't even make it into court. (People have this image of a "Perry Mason" type appearance in court where they win the day in a blaze of glory. Doesn't generally happen - usually gets settled in very low-key fashion after paying lawyers heaps of money, before it gets anywhere near a judge.)
Assaults, in my observation, don't generally solve much at all, they just give rise, possibly, to even more legal action, and possibly outcomes which make people even more unhappy and bitter. All very well to say nothing can be proved, and nothing was seen, but do people really want to go through the legal trauma let alone the enormous legal costs of defending themselves? I have seen people win their case, but be bankrupted in the process and the rest of their financial lives completely ruined.
One other aspect that people miss too I think, if I have this correct, is that if there is an assault and the person assaulted happens to have suffered from a prior condition which then dramatically worsens as a result of the assault, the assailant can be liable for prosecution (or a civil claim for damages in a completely separate case) to the extent of the injury sustained, so what is meant to be something very small, ends up as a criminal prosecution for assault occasioning actual bodily harm, or malicious injury - or worse.
Legal issues and cases might seem pathetic claims - until you go through the trouble and spend your life savings in legal representation.
I note that THEBOSS is only poster here making these claims so it's hard to judge, ain't it. On the one hand there's rarely any smoke without fire but is there a fire in the first place?
Noel either got beaten up in a chance encounter, wrong place wrong time etc. or he had problems with certain individuals.
Either way, the local community will have all the details and I'm sure the Gardai are sufficiently well informed at this stage without worrying about a few allegations here.
I suppose time will tell what really happened if it comes out in the courts..
Half of Co Galway knows what it was about. Or at least has heard a set of rumours about it, which are remarkably consistent by Irish standards. These rumours include the amount concerned being considerably more than "a few thousand". They also state that the gardi are very well informed about who was involved. And that this is far from the first time that Mr Hill has behaved in this way, the only difference is that this time the tradesman involved took matters into his own hands.
I'm not condoning what was done. Violence is not the way to settle any problem, and it probably reduces the chance that the bill will ever be paid - or perhaps it doesn't, and the tradesman had concluded that the debt was bad anyway.
A renowned Irish flautist, let us call him Seamus County, once appeared in court in my Australian hometown over not paying a bill for staying in a nearby beach house which he claimed was not up to the standard he'd required.
The owners did not deck him in a pub toilet but called the police, thus proving conclusively that Australians are more civilised than Irishmen.
Police can't summons someone for a civil debt, they can only deal with criminal offences. Not paying your rent is a civil debt.
That's the situation in Australia (now, and for many decades), it may have been different a very long time ago. I don't know what the situation is in Ireland, it seems to me to be a bit different and that the police might have some official or unofficial jurisdiction in civil debt matters, but I doubt it.
If yer man appeared in that little country court house on a summons, the landowner(s) must have issued a summons and got the money out of him (rather than decking him in the pub). That way, yer man couldn't take the land owner(s) to court and suing the cr*ap out of them for decking him, could he? He just had to pay up - presumably he did anyway.
It is interesting that yer man broke his tour and chose to appear in court, rather than just jumping on the plane and off he goes - couldn't have been a huge debt I wouldn't have thought.
I can't remember all the details but he certainly appeared in the local court, long after he departed the holiday house.
I seem to remember he put up a robust defence that the facilities were not what he'd been promised. It was before the local rag went online so can't find a link. Can't remember if the court found for or against
If he appeared in the local court saying that the facilities were not what were promised, then he was arguing a defence in a civil debt case...which must have been brought by the landowner. Those sorts of defences are difficult to win, in my observation, unless there is an extreme divergence from standards. Obviously though yer man felt strongly enough about it to come back to a court to defend it, and it is interesting that he did not (apparently) settle the matter before a court hearing, which also indicates, I think, that he was particularly p*ssed off about it, that it became a matter of principle. It is expensive to do this though for a relatively small debt, so it sounds to me that it became an emotional exercise for both parties who apparently refused to parley in the matter and wanted a day in court.
It is all conjecture though isn't it...yer man might have been in court for decking the landowner in the pub and had been charged by police with assault, and was trying to tell the judge that he had only decked him because of the sub-standard accommodation, and that it was a reasonable defence.
noel hill
Re: noel hill
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/renowned-musician-attacked-in-pub-1587707.html?r=RSS
more details ...
# Posted on December 30th 2008 by the wounded hussar
Re: noel hill
I hope very much he is OK now...
# Posted on December 30th 2008 by Viking of Kiev
Re: noel hill
That's awful, why would someone do that?
It wasn't Shane MacGowan, was it? I thought they patched all that up years ago.
Get well soon Mr. Hill.
# Posted on December 30th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: noel hill
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1230/1230581467914.html
Why would someone do that?
Don't go to pubs much do you?
# Posted on December 30th 2008 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: noel hill
Oh yes, not me. Never. [rolls eyes] Usually people don't just walk up to someone they don't know and start banging away for no reason. Usually there's a prelude of some sort, it can even be something so stupid as bumping into some eejit drunkard who loses his cool, hollers and screams, then waits and lurks.
It's not a lot of fun for these chuckleheads if they don't have a idiotic, imaginary, useless reason for their moronic violence. "He stepped on my shoe!" "He looked at me funny!"
Mr. Hill isn't exactly Mr. Universe, so my question perhaps is why would some drunken testosterone-blinded eejit choose to take out his frustration at his own pathetic existence on a 50 year old concertina-playing gent who looks like he wouldn't hurt a fly?
Ah well. Just wondering out loud at stupidity, that's all.
# Posted on December 30th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: noel hill
I know, but it's not like it's anywhere unusual if a drunk beats up someone in an Irish pub for no specific reason and it's feckin christmas, hardly a time to avoid drunks.
# Posted on December 30th 2008 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: noel hill
It's a funny old place Conamara. Quite a different way of looking at things that many here would be used to, especially after a few jars.
# Posted on December 30th 2008 by Patkiwi
Re: noel hill
I remember one late night when one famous musician whacked a bouzoukiplayer (I'll leave them anonimous). Tom Munnelly, sitting at the bar, commented 'that's not a fight, that's two Corkmen having words' (or something along those lines.
# Posted on December 30th 2008 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: noel hill
obviously you havent been to a pub in ireland recently swfl. these idiots only need the smallest reason for stupid acts like this.
# Posted on December 30th 2008 by fiddleruairi
Re: noel hill
If you are a musician playing in a pub you are fair game for every dosser who wants to start something. That is where a good Guv' comes into his own and nips any potential trouble in the bud. Problem is with musicians, it's fear of getting their instrument damaged that is foremost in their minds.
# Posted on December 30th 2008 by Free Reed
Re: noel hill
The Moral of the story is: If you get a Connemara man to do work for you, Pay him!!!
# Posted on December 30th 2008 by THEBOSS
Re: noel hill
Not much different here lads, insert your favorite dumb Yank joke here.
I dunno, perhaps I'm just used to seeing huge drunken steroid heads beating each other senseless to the delight of make-up smeared preening girls. At least the bodybuilders have the decency to go after their own kind, not the spindly gray-haired musician-types. Real macho. Who's next, Ace? Granda? Feh.
# Posted on December 30th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: noel hill
According to all articles Hill was 'out with friends' nowhere it says he was playing.
Anything can have triggered this. Nowhere there was talk of 'bodybuilders'. And Hill emanates enough testosterone to get on peoples tits. Not that that makes it any less disgusting.
# Posted on December 30th 2008 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Noel Hill
He is a fine musician. I agree Free Reed, the Guv' needs to ensure the patrons he is looking out for them. Especially now. I cannot speak for what happened in the pub. I was not there. These things can happen fast. Try to keep your wits about you.
Noel, I wish you the best & a speedy recovery.
# Posted on December 30th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: noel hill
Anything? I beg to differ. There's one cause. Stupidity. Who said violence was a lack of imagination? Someone should have. It's a failure it what it is.
# Posted on December 30th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: noel hill
William Stafford said it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Stafford_(poet)
# Posted on December 30th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: noel hill
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7805098.stm
A normal day, in a normal pub in Ireland, country of a "hundred thousand welcomes".
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: noel hill
'I have never met a man who has given me as much trouble as myself'
Dwight L. Moody (1837-1899) American evangilist and publisher
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by lisaniska
Re: noel hill
Making a Mountain out of a Noel Hill if you ask me.
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by macc
Re: noel hill
I hope that's true macc - hopefully he's fine, and he'll ditch Connemara and spend more time in the US. I know a few wayward concertina players who would love to have his guidance.
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by airport
Re: noel hill
The very best wishes to Noel for a speedy and full recovery, and hope there'll be no lingering physical, or mental, after-effects.
As people here have noted, there's really not much logic to pub fights at all; they can shift from semi-humorous to dramatic to absurd in a matter of minutes. Some years ago at a pub in Central Massachusetts, I once observed two rather portly middle-aged gentlemen with longish hair (exceeded by the length of their beards), grappling with each other in a booth; Gentleman No. 1, who had the upper hand, roared at Gentleman No. 2 thusly: "Don't you call my @#$%in' house at 2 in the @#$%in' morning!"
Cooler heads prevailed, order was restored, and in about half an hour's time I observed the two gentlemen sitting next to each other, glasses raised. Gentleman No. 1 clapped Gentleman No. 2 on the back, and laughed to their table mates: "Ya know what this #$%in' guy did? He called my @#$%in' house at two in the @#$%in' morning!"
As the poet said: "Life's like that, innit?"
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by sts
Re: noel hill
Horrible news. In case you hear tell of this thread Noel, and in the hope of raising a smile, donkey's years ago my wife and I were regularly travelling up and down the country, and passing through Warwickshire on the way (or was it Worcestershire?), and whenever we drove through Knoll Hill, we raised our voices in toast of your playing. Get well soon. And a better new year to one and all.
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by Pomme de Terre
Noel Hill attacked
This report came as a great shock and Noel will be in the thoughts and prayers of aspiring box players worldwide. I learned a huge amount from him and wish him a speedy recovery.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1230/1230581467914.html
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by geoffwright
Re: Noel Hill attacked
When people do work for you, you should pay them!! Nobody gets beaten up for no reason!!
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by THEBOSS
Re: Noel Hill attacked
@ the (shouting) boss--do you have some inside knowledge of the incident? Please enlighten us.
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by John Galt
Re: noel hill
Pay the workmen, and you will be fine!!
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by THEBOSS
Re: Noel Hill attacked
Yes I have, I seem to have made myself clear..unless you want me to print my name and adress,.
People get p*ssed off when they do work and dont get paid for it!
Now that is all I am going to say on the matter!
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by THEBOSS
Re: Noel Hill attacked
Even if that's true, it's still no excuse for putting somebody in the hospital. There are better ways to deal with a situation like that.
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by John Galt
Re: noel hill
There are other channels to sort that kind of thing out! there's no excuse for violence!
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by suesinger
The workmen
What is the manner of this work for which there was non payment?
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: noel hill
Construction work on old house bought in Carraroe 4 or 5 years ago by auction;
Builders and Sub builder not paid!
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by THEBOSS
Re: noel hill
Is the debt now settled?
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: noel hill
Depends, if children went hungry over the Christmas, with no money, or had no Santa..Hard to know how to settle a debt, different people have different methods!!
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by THEBOSS
Re: noel hill
this is no place to be discussing the circumstances off the attack in fairness or what it was related too.
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by S.Doherty
Construction bill
I have no idea why Noel Hill would not pay for work he had agreed to. Hopefully there is documentation & not just a verbal arrangement. There must have been an angry, & poor, worker who felt obliged to teach Mr. Hill a lesson. Which is sad for the families on both sides. Bottom line is the builder is solely responsible for agreement of the terms of billing & payment.
Noel Hill has every right to bring charges. Certainly that cannot help the worker.
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by Ben Steen
Community
S.Doherty, definitely not the best forum. But it is one place for discussion.
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: noel hill
I am not here to argue with any one, I am totally against violence..bottom line..But people like Noel Hill dont get set upon for no reason when he walks into a pub. I dont know anything about the legal matters. But there will be charges brought against this man, rightly so;
Just thought people would like to know what caused the argument, that is all;
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by THEBOSS
Re: noel hill
Fair enough. Thank you for being open to my questions. The best to all.
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: noel hill
Me too--I'm a bit embarrassed now, wasn't really any of my business, curiosity just got the better of me. (Probably should have sent an email instead. So I'm a snoop, and lazy besides.)
But as Random_notes pointed out, posting a complaint on a public forum is a better way to go, for that kind of problem. I suppose you could still go to jail, if libel can be proved, but at least nobody needs an ambulance.
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by John Galt
Re: noel hill
People read tabloid newspapers for the gossip and I enjoy the thrill of it too. But the newspapers know this and they enhance the gossip by misrepresentation. "XXX wears dirty knickers..." probably means the celebrity lost her luggage at Heathrow.
In this light the statement by Boss "...When people do work for you, you should pay them!! Nobody gets beaten up for no reason!!..." infers a particular, simple and logical course of events. Leaving aside that the true story is likely to be much more complicated, this posting might be actionable in some jurisdictions.
It is interesting the line contains two statements. The first is undoubtedly true but leaves no room for complications such as substandard work, the second is undoubtedly untrue, but hanging on the coat tails of the first statement it gains credibility. Classic stuff...
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by cag
Re: noel hill
Yes. Where does this sort of stuff leave, for example, Jeremy as the website owner in terms of authorities making enquiries about assaults?
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: noel hill
Violence is very uncommon in Connemara pubs, I have been going into Connemara pubs for many a year and I have heard plenty of music and had loads of craic, but never saw a violent incident of any note; Neither did I hear any incident making the headlines of any news or news paper.
This incident was not a brawl, nobody got hit by accident, there was plenty of rumors out before this happened about court proceedings;
The only thing that amazes me is that the Victim of the Physical assault (not the victim of the unpayment assault) had the courage to go into the place at all; So if you all prefer to believe that the man got beaten up for his music playing, carry on, it will all come out eventually;
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by THEBOSS
Re: noel hill
Going by this and your previous posts, it sounds like you had something to do with it, Boss. If you didn't, why condone acts of violence? If whatever it is is going through a court of law, who do you think you are to condone or maybe support or even perpetrate acts of violence? Just in case you need reminding, we don't live like animals or cavemen any longer. All the processes of civilisation including the law have evolved over several thousand years for everyones' mutual benefit, and we should in the first instance defer to that authority, otherwise we're no better than bacteria.
Why you want to post a justification of an act of violence, which even if what you say is true, is supposed retribution for what probably only amounts to a few hundred or thousand euros, is beyond me.
If you have anything to do with this, just remember that it is the intelligentsia, the artists musicians scientists poets who bring about positive changes in human society, not the thick violent knobheads like Hitler and by the sound of it yourself who would have the human condition reduced to vile creatures who would eat each others' sh!te. You need to get out more in intelligent company, not be part of a pack of wolves.
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by Rudall the time
Re: noel hill
I can see the lawyers having a field day with this thread - it'll probably end up on the front page of the Irish Times if this keeps up.
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: noel hill
What, so do you think the bosses comments should just go unchallenged? On *our* website?
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by Rudall the time
Re: noel hill
bodhran bliss said: "A normal day, in a normal pub in Ireland, country of a "hundred thousand welcomes"."
There is far less violence in Ireland than in other countries-- especially less than in the US and England. Ireland doesn't drop bombs on other countries the way the US and the UK have done. Nor license hand-guns as in the US.
-------------
Alf said: "...it sounds like you had something to do with it, Boss. If you didn't, why condone acts of violence?"
This isn't fair. Theboss specifically said that he didn't condone the violence. Moreover, nothing Boss said implied that he was involved. Only that he knew more than what appeared in the papers. Of course there is more to it all. Noel is a great player but he is not a saint. What happened had nothing to do with music. Alf Tupper's post is unfair and unenlightening. Am I too considered part of a pack of wolves now?
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by David Levine
Re: noel hill
No, didn't mean that. Just that some of the things being said here could be of great interest to lawyers and/or courts in any later proceedings, I would have thought.
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: noel hill
OK, cocus, point taken, apologies where necesary, so why attempt to justify such an act violence, at all? If he said he didn't condone violence why be an apologist for any form of violence. Boss, make your mind up.
And duijera, cop on, what lawyer could possibly be interested in some web chat like this, please tell me.
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by Rudall the time
Re: noel hill
You're not kidding are you Alf?
I wouldn't think you've had much to do with the legal process then?
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: noel hill
Tell me all about it then.
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by Rudall the time
Re: noel hill
Jeez man. So if a serious crime was committed somewhere (which there could well have been in this case), and someone gets on a website forum and says they know more about it, you don't think lawyers - and the police - would be interested in that?
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: noel hill
So how do they nab the boss, then? Or as responsible citizens, should we grass him?
An email to the Galway Gardai should suffice surely?
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by Rudall the time
Re: noel hill
Ask Jeremy.
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: noel hill
cop out.
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by Rudall the time
Re: noel hill
Tell it to the judge. I'll just watch with great interest. Keep going Alf.
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: noel hill
Vicariously no doubt.
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by Rudall the time
Re: noel hill
Beyond any reasonable doubt.
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: noel hill
About 10 people use this computer... They all go by the name THE BOSS.. There is a little law about journalists not having to reveal their sources!!! Carry on grass me all you want!! First you have to find out which of us used the computer...Who the BOSS really is, And last but not least Are these lies or is it the truth!! No worries here!!!
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by THEBOSS
Re: noel hill
And Tupper, You seem more in tune with the HItler method, than me any day: Running to the Gestapo to report a man for joining in a discussion we enjoy because of our democratic freedom of speech;
You would fit nicely into Hitler's plans.....one version of events! Report anyone who says differently!
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by THEBOSS
Re: noel hill
I think The Tupper meant the Wolves and Canibals remark, for the CONNEMARA people, which I take as an Ignorant, racist remark!
I am not originally from Connemara, but I have lots of friends here and I have lived here and got to know the people, and remarks like that, about them, is totally out of order, and just shows the lack of education behind such remarks;
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by THEBOSS
Re: noel hill
You coward.
Since when did suggesting to report knowledge of a crime constitute running to the gestapo? You're scared now. If you had nothing to hide you wouldn't be. All 10 of you.
The Hitler method? Huh...you really haven't a clue have you.
Getting back to the original topic, if any of the 10 of you know more than has been reported about the assaukt on Noel Hill, come clean and let the law deal with it. I don't know any details about defaulting on payment on building work, at all, apart from what I've just read here, but it seems to me someone is being disingenuous. Slag me if you want, but violence gets on my proverbials - that's not to say I have seen or dealt my fair share of it, no joke. I've done many a round of it, but I hate to see it foisted on an unwelcoming recipient.
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by Rudall the time
Re: noel hill
I just picked up the last remark from the boss. Twisting it - how pathetic to accuse me of being racist towards Connemara people. Until recently I played in a session in a pub which was a haunt of Connemara people so puh-lease......don't even go there. OK, I'm off out for a new years day sesh, probably about 6-8 hours worth, so you will have plenty more time to slag me now. Go on do yer best you saddos.
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by Rudall the time
Re: noel hill
Relax Tupper, mind that blood pressure!! Was wrong, I think it is 20 that use the computer, and it is a public computer, so could be any one!!!
Just what I mean about this great democracy, and journalist laws.
God Is that the squad car I see pulling up!!!!
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by THEBOSS
Re: noel hill
Tupper, Your not too bad at twisting things yourself, calling people Nazis, and saying people condone violence, when it was written in front of you, that I dont!
So if you give it..be prepared to take it!!
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by THEBOSS
Re: noel hill
I'm perfectly relaxed, boss, all 20 of you.(BTW, it strikes me what the F... are twenty "musicians" doing huddled round the one computer on New Years Day...? have yes nothing better to do fer fux ache?) If that's the squad car and you 20 lads are innocent so should you be. Now as for that session... the Blythe SE London, fancy joining us for a tune or twenty?
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by Rudall the time
Re: noel hill
Tupper, Are you still here???
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by THEBOSS
Re: noel hill
Wont join you Tupper, Prefer it here in Boston; I also am in good company!
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by THEBOSS
Re: noel hill
Yep. Still here. But not for long. Off out in a minute.
I did post an apology to anyone who thought they had been falsely accused, and I have no issues with repeating that:
So here goes,
Sorry to anyone I have falsely accused.
OK?
But it did sadden me deeply to learn of Noel Hill's assault. I used to fight regularly as a hobby when I was a lad. I got mugged (and fought the cvnts off) a few years ago, and I notice when you get older it takes ages to recover both physicaly and emotionally, so all I'm saying is this. If someone out of the 20 of ye know something more than has been reported, why don't you report it?
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by Rudall the time
Re: noel hill
>Prefer it here in Boston; I also am in good company!
Glad to hear sarcasm is flourishing in Lincolnshire.............
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by Rudall the time
Re: noel hill
Report What??? Everybody here knows what happened; There is no need for Sherlock Holmes or anything!
It is you who is talking about reporting people for writing into this website!
Just because I wrote in, doesen't mean I want to end up being a witness in a court case or end up having to give statments to Gardai;
The dogs in the street knows what the row was about, in the aerea it happened in;
I dont know what all the fuss is about; By the way he was not mugged, robbery was not the motive!
Now I hope I wont be Extradited from the US, for this bloody court case..
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by THEBOSS
Re: noel hill
THEBOSS-
ive been reading through these comments and your story seems to change whenever its conveniences you. first you leave ambiguous messages suggesting you know who was involved in the crime. you leave messages showing that you know more information on the crime than the newspapers.
you go on to say that around 10 of you (who this 10 refers to we don't know) use the computer. then you go on to say that it is actually around 20. there's a big difference between the two numbers now, you are talking about DOUBLE the original number you mentioned. thats quite a lot. not too good at judging crowds are we?
you talk about journalists not having to give up their sources. sorry but anyone who knows me will tell ive studied journalism on dcu and i know (and actually anyone worth their salt would know) that giving up sources only applies to people who are actually journalists and if you are a journalist you would know this only applies to sources used in a story. coming onto a public forum like this doesn't count. if you use the information that was originally only supposed to be used for a story on this site then you are breaking the code which you so staunchly stand by.
and if you are a journalist then why on earth would 20 of you be using one computer that is if it is a computer in your office, and why would you all use one log on name. you're either bull-s h i t t i n g or you work in the world's worst newsroom.
regardless of how many you are you can all be found guilty of aiding and abetting if you have information leading to this persons identity. identifying which of the '20' of you typed the information doesnt matter, you can all be convicted.
you also go on to say you live in Boston. up until then your comments suggested heavily you were from the said are and knew quite a lot about it. how someone living in Boston came to find out this information good only knows. kinda convenient that you only mention this when people start to look closely at your comments. i think you just started to panic and realised what you did and tried to undermine your own comments. then you tried focussing on something someone else said and tried to blow it out of proportion to shift the focus from you. its textbook.
you also try to cover you're tracks by saying is this lies or is it the truth. sorry, but you can't fool everyone. you can't just realise the folly of what you did and then try to claim it as lies. you're using every trick in the book, you're the worlds worst actor. form you're comments it seems that you're probably only very young, or either just very immature. 'Thank god for those journalist laws', they're not actually 'law'. just a code of ethics that journalists should follow, but seeing as you are a journalist you would know this, wouldn't you? thats is if you are a journalist otherwise these dont apply to you, referring back to my original remarks on that topic.
as for my own opinion, i think you're full of s h i t and should go to the police if you do know something or its you who will be up sh itcreek.
now im no 'sherlock holmes' as you so elequently put it, but i know when i smell BS and you reek of it.
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by fiddleruairi
Re: noel hill
just to enforce that, stop filling this page with bull. you might be able to fool others but you cant pull the wool over my eyes. you're so full of crap you cant see the wood for the trees mate. make up stories somewhere else, you've been reading too many fairytales.
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by fiddleruairi
Re: noel hill
Gosh I was not in the pub but would think Noel Hill & at least one of his company would be capable of identifying who beat him.
Does anyone on the forum know this to be a faulty assumption.
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: noel hill
This "discussion" is getting badly out of order. Not a good omen for the New Year. It seems to me that the best solution would be to delete all posts made here after Geoff Wright's post of 31 December.
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: noel hill
Why?
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: noel hill
Fiddleruari, You are the one writing the long, long, long letters of BS..God I often heard the truth hurts, but this discussion is certainly proof of that.
Now what the Gardai will have to figure out, as far as I have been informed, is..Who started this row? (The row took place in the Gents Toilet) Were there any witnesses in the Gents toilet at the time? Was it self defence? Who threw the first punch?
Now these will be the arguments in court; I dont think anybody will be too worried about why anybody punched anybody! The court case wont be about whether anybody owed anybody money; The investigation is into an assault on Noel in a Gents toilet in a Connemara Pub; As the law prohibits cctv in toilets, the statments of all the people (Witnesses) in the toilet at the time, will have to provide the answers for all of us;
Now insulting me, wont change any of that.
The reason I brought 10,20, Public computers and other matters into the discussion, was to knock the little pathetic argument of legal issues brought into it on the head; I know a bit about the law and journalism, so trying to frighten me with that BS wont wash;
So I wonder who did throw the first punch???
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by THEBOSS
Re: noel hill
Fiddleruari.....By the way I didn't make up the story, He really was assaulted; If you dont believe me check the Irish Times!
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by THEBOSS
Re: noel hill
I think we have moved on to a different discussion; I am off!
Best wishes to everyone, and a speedy recovery to Noel..
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by THEBOSS
Re: noel hill
It's a very tricky site. Many good people use the forum. There are people on board very concerned when any musician is injured. The circumstances (both true & assumed) can so compound a bad situation. I hope I am not alone in saying, again, the best to all.
I include everyone who has expressed your thoughts.
lazyhound, I do get your point.
Cheers!
Good new year
Thanks Jeremy. I'll try & get on with discussing trad.
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: noel hill
Wow! Just like C.S.I. Ireland.. Speedy recovery Mr.Hill.
# Posted on January 2nd 2009 by lamh trom
Re: noel hill
In my observation of these sorts of legal stoushes over many years, what comes as a surprise to many people is that two (at least) separate matters can flow from an assault. One is the police investigation (the criminal matter) which might or might not lead to a fine or imprisonment, probably depending on the severity of the assault and/or the premeditated nature of it (or not), and secondly, which most people overlook, is the possibility of a civil action for damages.
They're the sorts of cases you hear about where a victim wins their case and gets awarded, ahm, you know something like one million euros, dollars, whatever in damages - for personal injury, lost income, lost career opportunities, etc, again probably depending on the nature of the injuries and/or damage sustained which can be proved. In a very litigious country, as the U.S. and others, maybe Britain as well (I don't know where Ireland stands in this range), judgements for damages can be really steep, even ruinous.
Insofar as I understand it, the standard of proof in a criminal case is proof "beyond reasonable doubt" and the standard of proof in a civil case is "on the balance of probabilities". These suggest to me that the proof doesn't even have to be absolutely 100% watertight - just "beyond doubt" or "probably".
That's the danger people. If there is a legal dispute about something - take it to court if it can't get solved informally and between gentlemen. It's then nothing personal, just business. It'll probably get settled by agreement on the court steps anyway, so these things most often don't even make it into court. (People have this image of a "Perry Mason" type appearance in court where they win the day in a blaze of glory. Doesn't generally happen - usually gets settled in very low-key fashion after paying lawyers heaps of money, before it gets anywhere near a judge.)
Assaults, in my observation, don't generally solve much at all, they just give rise, possibly, to even more legal action, and possibly outcomes which make people even more unhappy and bitter. All very well to say nothing can be proved, and nothing was seen, but do people really want to go through the legal trauma let alone the enormous legal costs of defending themselves? I have seen people win their case, but be bankrupted in the process and the rest of their financial lives completely ruined.
One other aspect that people miss too I think, if I have this correct, is that if there is an assault and the person assaulted happens to have suffered from a prior condition which then dramatically worsens as a result of the assault, the assailant can be liable for prosecution (or a civil claim for damages in a completely separate case) to the extent of the injury sustained, so what is meant to be something very small, ends up as a criminal prosecution for assault occasioning actual bodily harm, or malicious injury - or worse.
Legal issues and cases might seem pathetic claims - until you go through the trouble and spend your life savings in legal representation.
Is it worth it?
# Posted on January 2nd 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: noel hill
he he
it's true whether you like it not skip. good riddance to you.
# Posted on January 2nd 2009 by Rudall the time
Re: Expressing concern
http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/noelhill.
This a website set up help Noel.
# Posted on January 2nd 2009 by David Levine
Website for Noel Hill
http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/noelhill.
Sorry to double post- but I thought the urgency warranted this.
# Posted on January 2nd 2009 by David Levine
Re: noel hill
I note that THEBOSS is only poster here making these claims so it's hard to judge, ain't it. On the one hand there's rarely any smoke without fire but is there a fire in the first place?
Noel either got beaten up in a chance encounter, wrong place wrong time etc. or he had problems with certain individuals.
Either way, the local community will have all the details and I'm sure the Gardai are sufficiently well informed at this stage without worrying about a few allegations here.
I suppose time will tell what really happened if it comes out in the courts..
# Posted on January 2nd 2009 by the wounded hussar
Re: noel hill
Half of Co Galway knows what it was about. Or at least has heard a set of rumours about it, which are remarkably consistent by Irish standards. These rumours include the amount concerned being considerably more than "a few thousand". They also state that the gardi are very well informed about who was involved. And that this is far from the first time that Mr Hill has behaved in this way, the only difference is that this time the tradesman involved took matters into his own hands.
I'm not condoning what was done. Violence is not the way to settle any problem, and it probably reduces the chance that the bill will ever be paid - or perhaps it doesn't, and the tradesman had concluded that the debt was bad anyway.
But this is not a case of random violence.
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by nosey
Slight diversion
A renowned Irish flautist, let us call him Seamus County, once appeared in court in my Australian hometown over not paying a bill for staying in a nearby beach house which he claimed was not up to the standard he'd required.
The owners did not deck him in a pub toilet but called the police, thus proving conclusively that Australians are more civilised than Irishmen.
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by Bren
Re: noel hill
What did the police do?
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: noel hill
Summonsed him I presume.
He broke his tour - I can't remember if he was in Australia or overseas at the time - to appear here:
http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/jcollins/0/0/4/im/jc004718.jpg
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by Bren
Re: noel hill
Police can't summons someone for a civil debt, they can only deal with criminal offences. Not paying your rent is a civil debt.
That's the situation in Australia (now, and for many decades), it may have been different a very long time ago. I don't know what the situation is in Ireland, it seems to me to be a bit different and that the police might have some official or unofficial jurisdiction in civil debt matters, but I doubt it.
If yer man appeared in that little country court house on a summons, the landowner(s) must have issued a summons and got the money out of him (rather than decking him in the pub). That way, yer man couldn't take the land owner(s) to court and suing the cr*ap out of them for decking him, could he? He just had to pay up - presumably he did anyway.
It is interesting that yer man broke his tour and chose to appear in court, rather than just jumping on the plane and off he goes - couldn't have been a huge debt I wouldn't have thought.
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: noel hill
I can't remember all the details but he certainly appeared in the local court, long after he departed the holiday house.
I seem to remember he put up a robust defence that the facilities were not what he'd been promised. It was before the local rag went online so can't find a link. Can't remember if the court found for or against
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by Bren
Re: noel hill
If he appeared in the local court saying that the facilities were not what were promised, then he was arguing a defence in a civil debt case...which must have been brought by the landowner. Those sorts of defences are difficult to win, in my observation, unless there is an extreme divergence from standards. Obviously though yer man felt strongly enough about it to come back to a court to defend it, and it is interesting that he did not (apparently) settle the matter before a court hearing, which also indicates, I think, that he was particularly p*ssed off about it, that it became a matter of principle. It is expensive to do this though for a relatively small debt, so it sounds to me that it became an emotional exercise for both parties who apparently refused to parley in the matter and wanted a day in court.
It is all conjecture though isn't it...yer man might have been in court for decking the landowner in the pub and had been charged by police with assault, and was trying to tell the judge that he had only decked him because of the sub-standard accommodation, and that it was a reasonable defence.
# Posted on January 7th 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh