Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
First off, please no snarky comments about hammered dulcimers or comments from non-HD players unless they are respectful and constructive. Although if you play something else and you have had good experiences in sessions with hammered dulcimer players, I would love to hear what you think made those experiences good.
I want to be one of those "good" and "welcome" and "fun" hammered dulcimer players.
I am new to this scene and have only played my hammered dulcimer in the context of non-purist sessions in my area (rural New England - most of the musicians also play contradances, etc) - and although I am an experienced musician, I'm new to this instrument and this genre. My initial offerings have been well-received, but I know there can be a fine line between eager welcome and sheer politeness.
I can see from reading the previous threads here that my best bet is to try to fit in respectfully. I would like more specific suggestions for how to do this - tips for session survival - especially from seasoned hammered dulcimer players or those who enjoy playing with them.
I like Irish session music and I want to be part of playing it. I want to fit in and contribute positively. Yes, my instrument takes up space, but I will be respectful and stay out of the way. (FWIW, I stand when I play, so I usually put myself near the back or the side). I show up with a tuned instrument. I don't play on every tune, mainly because I know so few tunes. LOL. I don't attempt to play along with tunes I don't already know.
My instrument is a 12/11 made of maple and cherry, with two courses, two bridges, steel strings (upper) and bronze (lower). I doesn't seem to muddy the sound all that much except on the lower (bronze string) notes. I have to make sure the course strings are really well-tuned, though, or I can hear that "wall of sound" trying to grow. I reflexively damp the last notes of a song but haven't tried hand-damping in the middle of a tune (how do you do this with hammers in your hands?) My instrument isn't loud when there are several fiddlers at hand (the usual), and in fact I have to have one of those personal amplifier thingys with an earbud so I can actually hear myself in the din. The session I attend usually has 4-12 players. I get the feeling it's a bit unusual to have a hammered dulcimer player there, but I have been welcomed and encouraged and thanked.
The only music I have ever played is Celtic session music, so the repertoire fits, but I would love some resources for learning how best to fit in and not annoy people (some of whom might already be prejudiced against hammered dulcimer players from previous experiences or things they have heard). I have been told that hammered dulcimer players can be like the little girl who had a little curl - when they are good, they are very, very good, but when they are bad, they are horrid. But how to make sure I grow into one of the good ones? What makes a good hammered dulcimer session player? Any resources to recommend?
With all the critical hammered dulcimer comments I have read, I'm very self-conscious of how I'll be perceived. I'm not self-conscious of my playing and in fact I think I'm pretty darn confident for a beginner. I would love some seasoned advice. Thanks.
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
The biggest problem is that there is a hang time with HDs. The note or the chord carries over while the melody moves on and requires a different chord. It's like playing the piano with the sustain pedal always on. There's is always a dischordance.
The other problem is sheer volume. Most hammer dulcimer players that I've played with have just been too loud, both for the skill level of the player and for the needs of the session. There is a continual clatter, a continual bong-bong or ringing in my ears.
Constructively, I think that most HD players ought not to play on every single tune, ought to make the instrument quieter, and try to eliminate some of the hang-time. I don't meant to be nasty - but you asked.
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Yes please, check out the esteemed and learned Mr. P on that thread.
Thy watchword for thine hammers shall be 'gentle', or, as Pink Floyd used to say: "Careful with that Axe, Eugene."
I bet you could even drop Mr. Ptarmigan an email for further insight on how to make yourself wanted, as opposed to unwanted, he seems to be a right-decent feller.
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Thank you for the speedy input. I will check out ptarmigan's thread. I don't know how I could e-mail him but I will see if the site has that figured out for me. I hope he'll drop in on this thread.
One question I have is why to bother making the instrument quieter when I can't even hear it myself and the people around me say they can hardly hear it? If I start a tune, and if there are only a couple of people joining, it can be heard, and I feel I have to play rather loudly for even that.
I wonder if that clatter or bong-bong as you call it, cocus, is the simple fact that it's a percussion instrument? Couldn't I just as rightfully complain about the scratchy skreeetch of the fiddle or the screaming shrillness of a flute?
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Thanks, Bogman, I was trying to find that one. Ptarmigan's threads are always worth a look.
I'm primarily a backer that got their start playing contra dances, and I worked with a dulcimer player for about 20 years (that ended in a divorce). Something that I discovered immediately when I started showing up at sessions is that even though some of the tunes are the same, playing in sessions is a completely different thing than playing for contra dances. Different style, different tempo and structures, etc, etc. So much so that I find lately that too much contra dance playing seems to wreck my session playing, but likely that's just me.
Have you checked out John McCutcheon (sp?)? He used to have a damper pedal thingee so that he could control the sustain. Or if there's too much ringy-dingy on certain strings, you could try a bit of felt or yarn or something woven between the strings.
Also, if wou're going to take a crack at backing, try to avoid going into "auto-pilot" mode and playing stuff like arpeggiated chords (I'm guilty of that on the guitar; sometimes I catch myself inadvertently going into the "boom-chuck" thingee. Bad habits die hard, I guess...). There are a couple of very good dulcimer players that show up from time-to-time around here and they're always welcomed; the best way that I can think of to put it at the moment is that they seem to approach the dulcimer more like a harp than a piano.
If you're anywhere near Boston, you might try to find out if Matt Heaton is still doing his session "workshops". I'd definitely hit those if I lived in the area.
The main thing is to make the tunes sound good and have fun. You're in for a heckuva ride...
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Upon further review and consulting with a fluter...
The Wall of Sound is the real culprit here. Anything that can be done to cut down on it, should be. It can overwhelm the finer points of sound from the other instruments, the heavy resonance from the sustain.
Then again, so can a lot of things.
Finally, I'll quote Mr. Llig from the other thread, simply because it was so durn funny:
"A thing I quite like to do, for my own pleasure, and only alone, is to play the piano with a brick holding down the sustain pedal. I like the build up of all the strings vibrating at once. Kind of like some harmony that Bartok would use. I'd never do it down the pub though, there's enough of a racket going on already."
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
SWFL Fiddler, here is where I need more detail. How to find the line between the wall of sound and the sound of regular, inoffensive playing? I do want to create some sound (I'm not going to completely silence my instrument) so where is that distinction and how can an instrument be handled or modified to stay on the not-wall side?
It's all well and good to say that people should play in such a way that their music doesn't interfere with the playing and enjoyment of others. But I'm hoping we can dissect that idea here and come up with more specific directions on how that can be accomplished with this particular instrument.
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Like cocus mentioned, sustain is the issue. A banjo is a percussive instrument too, but you don't have old notes hanging around, muddying the landscape. So if you have a damper pedal (I don't know much about HDs, so ignore my ignorance), learn to use it, so that the notes ring, but don't sustain much past the following note.
The sessions that I have been in that include HD are usually muddy-sounding. You lose the crisp melody contour amidst the reverberating wall of sound.
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
It might be that it's just not possible. it seems that folks are saying that the way the thing sounds is the problem. The HD is designed to make sound a certain way and sound a certain way, and unless you really change it's fundamental character, it's just not going to sound much different. Now I don't play one, so take this with a grain of salt, but from casual inspection it looks like a HD is designed to have a lot of sustain. Maybe there's even sympathetic tones generated in strings you don't whack.
When played in the intended context this is a virtue, but when playing reels at upwards of 160 BPM we need to get the old notes gone in a hurry, and lots of sustain is a problem.
If you take a long skinny beanbag and lay it down the strings so you don't get any sustain it might be interesting. Sorta like playing a bodhran with your hand in it. (Which I do play - sometimes.) There's too much sustain even in the bodhran without a hand except when thumping once per measure for a Scottish march or something.
Now let me take a completely different tack...
Rightly or wrongly I currently think "Irish style" means lots of flowing notes. On my whistle or flute than means I don't stop blowing, but wiggle fingers to make new notes. Even to make multiples of the same note (cuts, taps and rolls for example.) The tone, or breath, never stops until I need more air unless I'm at a spot in the tune where a break in the flow adds to the pulse of the tune, and I can put some breath in the bank for later.
I was playing Irish after a contra dance with an old tyme fiddler and SWFLfiddler. SW says to OT "Wow, that's great how you can make what you play sound so American." and OT says "Wen you play it just sounds so Irish."
Do you suppose you can find a way to make your HD sound "Irish"? Which might mean plenty of continuous sound within a note, but a clean change to the next note?
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Sam Risetta (sp?) designed a damper system for HDs. I really don't know if it's something that has to be installed when the instrument is built, or if it can be installed later. I had an old and dear friend who played HD at Irish sessions in the Boston area (she passed away years ago) and she used one of Sam's instruments with the damper pedal. The sound was loud enough and did'nt get muddy.
The other really important thing to consider when playing HD in a session is getting the right "swing" in the rhythm; the tendency for a lot of contra players is to give each note in a phrase equal time value (say if it's all 16th notes) and this is not how Irish style players usually do it. Because of the right/left alternating hand use, it can be quite tricky getting this swing to happen with HD. My friend had mastered this trick, and so was quite welcome (and is much missed) by many of the Irish trad players around Boston. Others, who had not bothered to listen carefully, were often not made to feel welcome, as having such a loud instrument so out of sync could really mess things up for everyone else.
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Amy:
What kind of hammers do you use? My partner had about 20 sets that she'd use for different things, everything from felt to rubber (I glued pieces of wide rubber bands onto some of her wooden ones), to wood, to plexiglass, and I think that she even had a few metal ones. You might try some heavier felt ones (the weight to keep the volume up, but the felt to keep the plingy treble under control). After all, harpists use their fingers, and pianos have felt hammers (although I've read that folks like Bruce Hornsby used to lacquer the hammers to get that 'signature' bright tone).
Is your dulcimer a regular hollow body one with a thin top, or one of those backless solid body ones?
...mind you, I'm just an informed observer.
If I can find the email address for our local guy, I'll pass it along in a PM.
I think that this is a good discussion. Thanks for bringing it up!
Cheers, all!
Tom
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Hi amyamanda, yes, I really don't know myself what is to be done, really. cjp has our local issues well described and covered above.
The Reverend has put it quite eloquently as well, losing 'the crisp melody among the wall of sound'. So much of 'the music' is the dynamics of this note being held and this note being rushed, Murph's 'swing' above. A sure sign of 'not getting it' is sounding like a midi file, with each note played with the exact weight, instead of being 'swung'.
So, perhaps it's hard to hear the subtleties of the swing from flutes, fiddles and other softer sounds when drowned by sustain from ye olde HD.
...and, ultimately, this is why some just give up and say "no HDs please".
I'm a nice guy, I try to include everyone, but at the same time, I don't want to lose anyone because they're getting their delicate sounds stomped on by a 'brick stuck on the sustain pedal', so to speak.
Hey, what do I do? HA! I dunno. But, I care so I wade in here. Can't provide any magic answers, but hopefully we can all increase the understanding.
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Thanks, Murph and others for clarifying what I was trying to articulate viv-a-vis the 'swing' thing. Like I said, I came up, so to speak, playing in contra bands and doing the string band thing, and I thought that I WAS playing "Da Music". Boy-oh-boy, did I get an education when I wandered into my first 'real' session.
It's interesting, I got to sub for the regular piano player in a local Klezmer-Contra fusion band a while back, and met this kid in the band who's a kick-butt piano accordian player who grew up in "the Klezmer Tradition", so to speak, and could play the snot out of that stuff. It was great fun, by the way. His grumble about the Contra thing was that you had to flatten out the rhythms, phrasing, tempos, etc. for the dancers. None of those tricky half-measures and stuff like that. Now, that's neither good nor bad, it's just what is. Actually, that might make an interesting topic for discussion; those of us that are doing both Contras and other stuff, and the issues we run into.
BTW, how does one play the crans, cuts, taps, etc. on the HD? I can only think of a couple of piano players who can pull that off, and I'm not one of them.
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
I just wanted to know where our discussion starter heard a flute with a screaming shrillness ?
Some whistles, yes, especially those played by people who think you need a G whistle for a tune in G ( Yes, there are a few demented people about ), but otherwise never a flute.
Personally I'd be very happy to have a hammered dulcimer in our sessions. Much less noisy than a tenor banjo anyway. Or a piano accordion.
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Hello Amy,
here's another link that might be interesting for you : http://www.eurodulcimers.proboards74.com/
I've been playing swiss hackbrett for 25 years : a few conclusions from experience in playing a lot of ITM in sessions : the loudness is not a caracteristic of the instrument. of cours, it can be loud, but it has such a dynamic, that the player can play very softly. you can also reduce the volume with felt or cotton-padded hammers (the advantage of swiss hackbretts is that the hammers have 2 sides, wood and felt, you can turn instantly to change the sound. As for the sustain, well it's part of the instrument, and it never bothered anybody in the sessions I go to. In fact, I even had quite a few thanks for the reverb like effect it gives to the whole session.
The cluster impression it can give is easily overcome with a good backing... If when you play, you listen to the others (which sometimes is hard to come by, a lot ofpeople playing in session don't listen to each other...), your own volume will fit nicely in the general volume. And, as the instrument faces you, you can hear yourself all the time (except when you have a loud percussion just beside you... or someone fiddling just in your ear...)
And remember, HD was - and is still - played in Ireland, even if it got a bit forgotten. It's much older than banjo, bouzouki... and bodhran ! Just listen to players like John Rea, Barry Caroll, Ptarmigan... Jimmy Cooper if you like Scottish music.
And welcome to the HD world... you'll find it's quite addicting, and very many nice people !
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
sorry, I re-read your starting point :Actually, It amazes me, the reactions against HD : when people tell you hd badly played is horrible... i'd answer it's the same for any instrument : I've had sessions ruined by a bad fiddler, or a bad flutist (I've heard screeching flutes... not an experienced I'd like to do again !). A pipe out of tune can be really horrendous... whereas, it's not the hd itself, but, like ANY instrument, the person playing it.
And from your text, you take a good care to have your instrument tuned before going to a session, and you don't consider a session as a competition of who plays the loudest/the fastest,and if the persons you play with are of the same mind (which for me is the quality of a good session...), everybody will have fun.
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
This is apparently the first Dusty Strings diatonic model available with dampers. Their chromatic models have been available as such for some time. http://www.dustystrings.com/building/d45.shtml
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Thanks, all - you have given me much to think about and research and try (and maybe someday buy, LOL).
Tom, I'm feeling sheepish after your Matt Heaton referral. I am not in the Boston area, but I realized after looking at his website that he's the guy I sat next to at the last session I played at. Oops! Or, maybe...good fortune? Maybe it's a good thing that I'm mostly ignorant of the luminarious status of some of the folks at my local session. My impression is that they are there to make friendly music, and I hope it will be a long and happy experience for me. (Thanks also for your e-mail, BTW, assuming it came from you...I will contact him.)
If anyone has other recommendations for recordings of hammered dulcimer players who do a good job playing with a traditional Irish sound, I am all ears.
Thanks for all the information and support (and please keep it coming, if there's more to be said). Hope I get to play with some of you folks someday.
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Amy: You shouldn't feel sheepish at all. I've been to one of Matt's workshops, and he's a really nice guy as well as being a great player. I heard a rumor (sorry, I can't find the link now) that he and (maybe) Shannon were going to be doing some sort of "Introduction to Session Playing" workshops at their home. That sounds like just the thing for someone like me. It's always a pleasant surprise for me to get chatting with someone at a sesh, and then to find out that they're, um, "famous"...
Yup, that was me with Bob's email. Another nice guy. It turns out that he & I have worked with some of the same people in the long-distant past. I ran into him at the Fleadh in Detroit last Spring. He was playing with the local luminaries.
Have Fun!
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
I don't know where you are, Amy, but here's somebody who might be of very good advice for HD, and who - for me - has a very irish style - when he play ITM... http://www.oooliticmusic.com/
he used to play with
Grey Larsen in Metamora
Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
First off, please no snarky comments about hammered dulcimers or comments from non-HD players unless they are respectful and constructive. Although if you play something else and you have had good experiences in sessions with hammered dulcimer players, I would love to hear what you think made those experiences good.
I want to be one of those "good" and "welcome" and "fun" hammered dulcimer players.
I am new to this scene and have only played my hammered dulcimer in the context of non-purist sessions in my area (rural New England - most of the musicians also play contradances, etc) - and although I am an experienced musician, I'm new to this instrument and this genre. My initial offerings have been well-received, but I know there can be a fine line between eager welcome and sheer politeness.
I can see from reading the previous threads here that my best bet is to try to fit in respectfully. I would like more specific suggestions for how to do this - tips for session survival - especially from seasoned hammered dulcimer players or those who enjoy playing with them.
I like Irish session music and I want to be part of playing it. I want to fit in and contribute positively. Yes, my instrument takes up space, but I will be respectful and stay out of the way. (FWIW, I stand when I play, so I usually put myself near the back or the side). I show up with a tuned instrument. I don't play on every tune, mainly because I know so few tunes. LOL. I don't attempt to play along with tunes I don't already know.
My instrument is a 12/11 made of maple and cherry, with two courses, two bridges, steel strings (upper) and bronze (lower). I doesn't seem to muddy the sound all that much except on the lower (bronze string) notes. I have to make sure the course strings are really well-tuned, though, or I can hear that "wall of sound" trying to grow. I reflexively damp the last notes of a song but haven't tried hand-damping in the middle of a tune (how do you do this with hammers in your hands?) My instrument isn't loud when there are several fiddlers at hand (the usual), and in fact I have to have one of those personal amplifier thingys with an earbud so I can actually hear myself in the din. The session I attend usually has 4-12 players. I get the feeling it's a bit unusual to have a hammered dulcimer player there, but I have been welcomed and encouraged and thanked.
The only music I have ever played is Celtic session music, so the repertoire fits, but I would love some resources for learning how best to fit in and not annoy people (some of whom might already be prejudiced against hammered dulcimer players from previous experiences or things they have heard). I have been told that hammered dulcimer players can be like the little girl who had a little curl - when they are good, they are very, very good, but when they are bad, they are horrid. But how to make sure I grow into one of the good ones? What makes a good hammered dulcimer session player? Any resources to recommend?
With all the critical hammered dulcimer comments I have read, I'm very self-conscious of how I'll be perceived. I'm not self-conscious of my playing and in fact I think I'm pretty darn confident for a beginner. I would love some seasoned advice. Thanks.
# Posted on December 29th 2008 by worthy
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
The biggest problem is that there is a hang time with HDs. The note or the chord carries over while the melody moves on and requires a different chord. It's like playing the piano with the sustain pedal always on. There's is always a dischordance.
The other problem is sheer volume. Most hammer dulcimer players that I've played with have just been too loud, both for the skill level of the player and for the needs of the session. There is a continual clatter, a continual bong-bong or ringing in my ears.
Constructively, I think that most HD players ought not to play on every single tune, ought to make the instrument quieter, and try to eliminate some of the hang-time. I don't meant to be nasty - but you asked.
# Posted on December 29th 2008 by David Levine
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Hi amyamanda, don't know is you seen this thread from ptarmigan. Some good clips and interesting opinions ....
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/20018
# Posted on December 29th 2008 by bogman
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Yes please, check out the esteemed and learned Mr. P on that thread.
Thy watchword for thine hammers shall be 'gentle', or, as Pink Floyd used to say: "Careful with that Axe, Eugene."
I bet you could even drop Mr. Ptarmigan an email for further insight on how to make yourself wanted, as opposed to unwanted, he seems to be a right-decent feller.
# Posted on December 29th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Thank you for the speedy input. I will check out ptarmigan's thread. I don't know how I could e-mail him but I will see if the site has that figured out for me. I hope he'll drop in on this thread.
One question I have is why to bother making the instrument quieter when I can't even hear it myself and the people around me say they can hardly hear it? If I start a tune, and if there are only a couple of people joining, it can be heard, and I feel I have to play rather loudly for even that.
I wonder if that clatter or bong-bong as you call it, cocus, is the simple fact that it's a percussion instrument? Couldn't I just as rightfully complain about the scratchy skreeetch of the fiddle or the screaming shrillness of a flute?
# Posted on December 29th 2008 by worthy
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Err, no, not on a trad music forum.
# Posted on December 29th 2008 by bogman
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Well actually you probably could, everyone else does
# Posted on December 29th 2008 by bogman
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Thanks, Bogman, I was trying to find that one. Ptarmigan's threads are always worth a look.
I'm primarily a backer that got their start playing contra dances, and I worked with a dulcimer player for about 20 years (that ended in a divorce). Something that I discovered immediately when I started showing up at sessions is that even though some of the tunes are the same, playing in sessions is a completely different thing than playing for contra dances. Different style, different tempo and structures, etc, etc. So much so that I find lately that too much contra dance playing seems to wreck my session playing, but likely that's just me.
Have you checked out John McCutcheon (sp?)? He used to have a damper pedal thingee so that he could control the sustain. Or if there's too much ringy-dingy on certain strings, you could try a bit of felt or yarn or something woven between the strings.
Also, if wou're going to take a crack at backing, try to avoid going into "auto-pilot" mode and playing stuff like arpeggiated chords (I'm guilty of that on the guitar; sometimes I catch myself inadvertently going into the "boom-chuck" thingee. Bad habits die hard, I guess...). There are a couple of very good dulcimer players that show up from time-to-time around here and they're always welcomed; the best way that I can think of to put it at the moment is that they seem to approach the dulcimer more like a harp than a piano.
If you're anywhere near Boston, you might try to find out if Matt Heaton is still doing his session "workshops". I'd definitely hit those if I lived in the area.
The main thing is to make the tunes sound good and have fun. You're in for a heckuva ride...
# Posted on December 29th 2008 by tomw
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Upon further review and consulting with a fluter...
The Wall of Sound is the real culprit here. Anything that can be done to cut down on it, should be. It can overwhelm the finer points of sound from the other instruments, the heavy resonance from the sustain.
Then again, so can a lot of things.
Finally, I'll quote Mr. Llig from the other thread, simply because it was so durn funny:
"A thing I quite like to do, for my own pleasure, and only alone, is to play the piano with a brick holding down the sustain pedal. I like the build up of all the strings vibrating at once. Kind of like some harmony that Bartok would use. I'd never do it down the pub though, there's enough of a racket going on already."
# Posted on December 29th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
SWFL Fiddler, here is where I need more detail. How to find the line between the wall of sound and the sound of regular, inoffensive playing? I do want to create some sound (I'm not going to completely silence my instrument) so where is that distinction and how can an instrument be handled or modified to stay on the not-wall side?
It's all well and good to say that people should play in such a way that their music doesn't interfere with the playing and enjoyment of others. But I'm hoping we can dissect that idea here and come up with more specific directions on how that can be accomplished with this particular instrument.
# Posted on December 29th 2008 by worthy
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Like cocus mentioned, sustain is the issue. A banjo is a percussive instrument too, but you don't have old notes hanging around, muddying the landscape. So if you have a damper pedal (I don't know much about HDs, so ignore my ignorance), learn to use it, so that the notes ring, but don't sustain much past the following note.
The sessions that I have been in that include HD are usually muddy-sounding. You lose the crisp melody contour amidst the reverberating wall of sound.
# Posted on December 29th 2008 by Reverend
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
It might be that it's just not possible. it seems that folks are saying that the way the thing sounds is the problem. The HD is designed to make sound a certain way and sound a certain way, and unless you really change it's fundamental character, it's just not going to sound much different. Now I don't play one, so take this with a grain of salt, but from casual inspection it looks like a HD is designed to have a lot of sustain. Maybe there's even sympathetic tones generated in strings you don't whack.
When played in the intended context this is a virtue, but when playing reels at upwards of 160 BPM we need to get the old notes gone in a hurry, and lots of sustain is a problem.
If you take a long skinny beanbag and lay it down the strings so you don't get any sustain it might be interesting. Sorta like playing a bodhran with your hand in it. (Which I do play - sometimes.) There's too much sustain even in the bodhran without a hand except when thumping once per measure for a Scottish march or something.
Now let me take a completely different tack...
Rightly or wrongly I currently think "Irish style" means lots of flowing notes. On my whistle or flute than means I don't stop blowing, but wiggle fingers to make new notes. Even to make multiples of the same note (cuts, taps and rolls for example.) The tone, or breath, never stops until I need more air unless I'm at a spot in the tune where a break in the flow adds to the pulse of the tune, and I can put some breath in the bank for later.
I was playing Irish after a contra dance with an old tyme fiddler and SWFLfiddler. SW says to OT "Wow, that's great how you can make what you play sound so American." and OT says "Wen you play it just sounds so Irish."
Do you suppose you can find a way to make your HD sound "Irish"? Which might mean plenty of continuous sound within a note, but a clean change to the next note?
Sorta seems contrary to the design of the HD tho.
# Posted on December 29th 2008 by cjp
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Sam Risetta (sp?) designed a damper system for HDs. I really don't know if it's something that has to be installed when the instrument is built, or if it can be installed later. I had an old and dear friend who played HD at Irish sessions in the Boston area (she passed away years ago) and she used one of Sam's instruments with the damper pedal. The sound was loud enough and did'nt get muddy.
The other really important thing to consider when playing HD in a session is getting the right "swing" in the rhythm; the tendency for a lot of contra players is to give each note in a phrase equal time value (say if it's all 16th notes) and this is not how Irish style players usually do it. Because of the right/left alternating hand use, it can be quite tricky getting this swing to happen with HD. My friend had mastered this trick, and so was quite welcome (and is much missed) by many of the Irish trad players around Boston. Others, who had not bothered to listen carefully, were often not made to feel welcome, as having such a loud instrument so out of sync could really mess things up for everyone else.
# Posted on December 29th 2008 by Murph
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Amy:
What kind of hammers do you use? My partner had about 20 sets that she'd use for different things, everything from felt to rubber (I glued pieces of wide rubber bands onto some of her wooden ones), to wood, to plexiglass, and I think that she even had a few metal ones. You might try some heavier felt ones (the weight to keep the volume up, but the felt to keep the plingy treble under control). After all, harpists use their fingers, and pianos have felt hammers (although I've read that folks like Bruce Hornsby used to lacquer the hammers to get that 'signature' bright tone).
Is your dulcimer a regular hollow body one with a thin top, or one of those backless solid body ones?
...mind you, I'm just an informed observer.
If I can find the email address for our local guy, I'll pass it along in a PM.
I think that this is a good discussion. Thanks for bringing it up!
Cheers, all!
Tom
# Posted on December 29th 2008 by tomw
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Hi amyamanda, yes, I really don't know myself what is to be done, really. cjp has our local issues well described and covered above.
The Reverend has put it quite eloquently as well, losing 'the crisp melody among the wall of sound'. So much of 'the music' is the dynamics of this note being held and this note being rushed, Murph's 'swing' above. A sure sign of 'not getting it' is sounding like a midi file, with each note played with the exact weight, instead of being 'swung'.
So, perhaps it's hard to hear the subtleties of the swing from flutes, fiddles and other softer sounds when drowned by sustain from ye olde HD.
...and, ultimately, this is why some just give up and say "no HDs please".
I'm a nice guy, I try to include everyone, but at the same time, I don't want to lose anyone because they're getting their delicate sounds stomped on by a 'brick stuck on the sustain pedal', so to speak.
Hey, what do I do? HA! I dunno. But, I care so I wade in here. Can't provide any magic answers, but hopefully we can all increase the understanding.
# Posted on December 29th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Thanks, Murph and others for clarifying what I was trying to articulate viv-a-vis the 'swing' thing. Like I said, I came up, so to speak, playing in contra bands and doing the string band thing, and I thought that I WAS playing "Da Music". Boy-oh-boy, did I get an education when I wandered into my first 'real' session.
It's interesting, I got to sub for the regular piano player in a local Klezmer-Contra fusion band a while back, and met this kid in the band who's a kick-butt piano accordian player who grew up in "the Klezmer Tradition", so to speak, and could play the snot out of that stuff. It was great fun, by the way. His grumble about the Contra thing was that you had to flatten out the rhythms, phrasing, tempos, etc. for the dancers. None of those tricky half-measures and stuff like that. Now, that's neither good nor bad, it's just what is. Actually, that might make an interesting topic for discussion; those of us that are doing both Contras and other stuff, and the issues we run into.
BTW, how does one play the crans, cuts, taps, etc. on the HD? I can only think of a couple of piano players who can pull that off, and I'm not one of them.
# Posted on December 29th 2008 by tomw
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
I just wanted to know where our discussion starter heard a flute with a screaming shrillness ?
Some whistles, yes, especially those played by people who think you need a G whistle for a tune in G ( Yes, there are a few demented people about ), but otherwise never a flute.
Personally I'd be very happy to have a hammered dulcimer in our sessions. Much less noisy than a tenor banjo anyway. Or a piano accordion.
# Posted on December 30th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Amy,
I'm an hammered dulcimer player also though for Irish Trad I usually play a mandolin (my primary instrument).
Have you tried searching the "Everything Dulcimer" site?
Here's a discussion that may help:
http://www.everythingdulcimer.com/discuss/viewtopic.php?t=16346&start=0
I found the pajamas an interesting take on the subject.
# Posted on December 30th 2008 by ed veras
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Local HD virtuoso Karen Ashbrook has a book out about playing the hammered dulcimer in the Irish style. It has many useful tips.
http://www.karenashbrook.com/books.html
# Posted on December 30th 2008 by Jiml
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Hello Amy,
here's another link that might be interesting for you :
http://www.eurodulcimers.proboards74.com/
I've been playing swiss hackbrett for 25 years : a few conclusions from experience in playing a lot of ITM in sessions : the loudness is not a caracteristic of the instrument. of cours, it can be loud, but it has such a dynamic, that the player can play very softly. you can also reduce the volume with felt or cotton-padded hammers (the advantage of swiss hackbretts is that the hammers have 2 sides, wood and felt, you can turn instantly to change the sound. As for the sustain, well it's part of the instrument, and it never bothered anybody in the sessions I go to. In fact, I even had quite a few thanks for the reverb like effect it gives to the whole session.
The cluster impression it can give is easily overcome with a good backing... If when you play, you listen to the others (which sometimes is hard to come by, a lot ofpeople playing in session don't listen to each other...), your own volume will fit nicely in the general volume. And, as the instrument faces you, you can hear yourself all the time (except when you have a loud percussion just beside you... or someone fiddling just in your ear...)
And remember, HD was - and is still - played in Ireland, even if it got a bit forgotten. It's much older than banjo, bouzouki... and bodhran ! Just listen to players like John Rea, Barry Caroll, Ptarmigan... Jimmy Cooper if you like Scottish music.
And welcome to the HD world... you'll find it's quite addicting, and very many nice people !
# Posted on December 30th 2008 by Nikita Pfister
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
sorry, I re-read your starting point :Actually, It amazes me, the reactions against HD : when people tell you hd badly played is horrible... i'd answer it's the same for any instrument : I've had sessions ruined by a bad fiddler, or a bad flutist (I've heard screeching flutes... not an experienced I'd like to do again !). A pipe out of tune can be really horrendous... whereas, it's not the hd itself, but, like ANY instrument, the person playing it.
And from your text, you take a good care to have your instrument tuned before going to a session, and you don't consider a session as a competition of who plays the loudest/the fastest,and if the persons you play with are of the same mind (which for me is the quality of a good session...), everybody will have fun.
# Posted on December 30th 2008 by Nikita Pfister
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
This is apparently the first Dusty Strings diatonic model available with dampers. Their chromatic models have been available as such for some time.
http://www.dustystrings.com/building/d45.shtml
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by oldstrings
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Thanks, all - you have given me much to think about and research and try (and maybe someday buy, LOL).
Tom, I'm feeling sheepish after your Matt Heaton referral. I am not in the Boston area, but I realized after looking at his website that he's the guy I sat next to at the last session I played at. Oops! Or, maybe...good fortune? Maybe it's a good thing that I'm mostly ignorant of the luminarious status of some of the folks at my local session. My impression is that they are there to make friendly music, and I hope it will be a long and happy experience for me. (Thanks also for your e-mail, BTW, assuming it came from you...I will contact him.)
If anyone has other recommendations for recordings of hammered dulcimer players who do a good job playing with a traditional Irish sound, I am all ears.
Thanks for all the information and support (and please keep it coming, if there's more to be said). Hope I get to play with some of you folks someday.
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by worthy
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Amy: You shouldn't feel sheepish at all. I've been to one of Matt's workshops, and he's a really nice guy as well as being a great player. I heard a rumor (sorry, I can't find the link now) that he and (maybe) Shannon were going to be doing some sort of "Introduction to Session Playing" workshops at their home. That sounds like just the thing for someone like me. It's always a pleasant surprise for me to get chatting with someone at a sesh, and then to find out that they're, um, "famous"...
Yup, that was me with Bob's email. Another nice guy. It turns out that he & I have worked with some of the same people in the long-distant past. I ran into him at the Fleadh in Detroit last Spring. He was playing with the local luminaries.
Have Fun!
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by tomw
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Evan Carawan is a great player who has developed abrilliant appraoeh to playing Irish tunes on th HD. Hope this helps:
www.isound.com/evan_carawan
# Posted on December 31st 2008 by pipewatcher
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
I don't know where you are, Amy, but here's somebody who might be of very good advice for HD, and who - for me - has a very irish style - when he play ITM...
http://www.oooliticmusic.com/
he used to play with
Grey Larsen in Metamora
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by Nikita Pfister
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
Evan taught Malcolm his first Irish tune on the HD
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by pipewatcher
Re: Survivial tips for and by hammered dulcimer players?
here's more:
mailto:showroom@songofthewood.com
# Posted on January 1st 2009 by pipewatcher