The casing of my Helicore D just gave way in the middle of a tune...
Have I got a dud, or has anyone else experienced something similar with these strings?
They've been on for about four weeks, so I guess they've had no more than 50 hours of play.
I've had the odd A and E string snap over the years, after months and months of punishment, but I've never had a D string snap like this. I was used to the casing on my Zyex A and D unwinding after quite a lot of playing, but this seems quite unusual.
I don't have a bloody spare at the moment, and there's a session in three hours...
Nightmare.
Always carry a spare, even if it's a cheaper substitute for emergencies only.
Not being a fiddle-player I don't have the same problems, but I always try to keep at least one complete set of spares in each instrument case. Strings yes. Plectrums many. Even a spare capo.
A fiddle-player at one of my sessions opened his case to discover the tailpiece string had broken. That is definitely NOT something you usually carry a spare of. Luckily we were only ten minutes down the road from home, so I brought the fiddle I've never got on with back and he quite liked it. It did for the evening anyway.
Sound advice. I only tried the Helicores out recently, so I didn't want to buy a second set until I was sure I liked them. Then of course I just forgot to buy new ones... Duh!
Many years ago I had a Dominant cello D go soggy on me during an orchestral concert. I thought at first that the peg had slipped but the aluminum string covering had parted company from the core. The result was no sound from that string (nobody noticed during that noisy symphony) so I continued playing until the interval when I replaced it. A couple of weeks later exactly the same thing happened to another cellist's D string, this time during a rehearsal. We wondered at the time if a bad batch of strings had got into the retailers.
Meh, it happens. Carry spares. I'm most frustrated when they pop when I'm putting them on. It's not just helicores, it's any wound string that may do this.
I've had two helicores break recently-an A string broke while I was playing and a G that broke after a few weeks just sitting in the case. I think quality has gone down.
I know someone who's had the same set of steels on their fiddle for at least two years, and it sounds great. I don't like the sound of steels on mine at all, and I've found that both Zyex and Helicore, my two favourites so far, have some drawbacks in terms of strength and reliability. Should I just accept that the sound I prefer requires strings that have inherent structural flaws that steels quite simply don't?
I change my Helicores every couple of months because the sound quality deteriorates very noticeably. A friend uses obligatos now and he says they sound great, last a long time --but they are expensive compared to helicores
No. a very different sound--not as bright as helicores, they have a lush mellow sound. I'm thinking of putting them on my new (newly made) fiddle whenever it is arrives!
I have a different issue with my d helicore, it has the most godawful buzz at g for a few days until its worn in. I change strings about every six to 12 months as a set costs around $100 here. Cleaning them from fret to bridge with boogie juice every couple of weeks or so makes a big difference to the life of the string....for me anyway.
I use Helicores, and have to change my A string once every 2-3 months, about twice as often as the rest, as the casing reliably comes unwound right around C-sharp. I keep a spare set and three or four spare A-strings handy.
Obligatos are considered by some players to have the closest sound to gut without actually being gut. They do indeed last a long time and settle down quite quickly from new. They have good carrying power and, as said above, a gorgeous tone.
There are a few things you can do to mitigate the possibility of a string disaster (although the possibility becomes a certainty if the string is inherently defective):
1) have the lowest action you can get away with
2) keep finger-nails nice and short
3) make sure the strings slide smoothly through the grooves in the nut and bridge.
4) never tune above the string tuning pitch referenced to A440.
5) wipe the strings after a playing session (salt from sweat is no good to aluminum windings).
Some people have trouble with Helicores, but I never have. My current set has been on since August and I've been everywhere from B-flat to D with stops at AEAE and GDGD. Not one string has broken or lost tonal quality or playability. Do you use heavy tension? I do, and I think their robustness really defines their playability and durability.
I use the medium tension. Tried the heavy tension but didn't get any better sound with more work. Maybe I'll give Obligatos a try...
Of course, each instrument is different. The one I'm selling sounds horrid with the mediums, but great with the heavies.
Interesting about the heavy helicores-I use medium and the A reliably unravels after a month--I always have numerous extras. The thing about strings just breaking though is new to me--it's really a shock when it happens when you're playing. Happens all the time to guitar players.
I am surprise you had a problem with the D Robert because it has a
titanium casing; maybe just a bad batch.
The G and D seem to last forever for me but like leoj, the A only lasts
me for a month before unravelling. That's why I've given up on them.
I am playing Infeld Blues at the moment as an experiment. The A has
a 'hydronalium' (aluminum alloy) casing so I want to see how it holds up.
I've never head of a fiddle string literally snapping, except for E strings.
Now that the Infelds are up to full tension, I'm not that impressed.
While they were breaking in, there was a moment when they were
really responsive and mellow-sounding with a strong sound. Now they
seem dull, but maybe that's because I'm used to the metal sound.
Interesting that you note the damaging effect of sweat, lazyhound. It seems obvious now that you mention it, and I do get very sweaty hands when I'm playing in a hot session. Is there a particular liquid cleaner that helps keep strings in good condition?
Dan, I'm using medium tension, I haven't tried the heavy ones. Maybe I'll give them a go.
Hup, with the Infelds try bowing slightly closer to the bridge. This compensates for the lower tension compared with metal to give a brighter and stronger sound. Players who use the even lower tension gut do this as a matter of course.
The sweat, grime and rosin is why I use boogie juice. It's for cleaning guitar strings but it works well for cleaning off rosin residue, and its made to prolong the life of strings. BTW $100 is what I pay after shipping, tax and exchange rate for strings, retail price is around the $170 mark last time I looked. I dont know who Simcha uses to distribute this stuff in the UK and the US but I can always ask her if anyone is interested.
Will do, 'hound. One good thing so far - the intonation is more consistent
because prior to this I had a spirocore A with helicore G and D and a
Vision E that somebody gave me at a session
When the Vision E is worn out (or you get fed up with it!) try the Pirastro Eudoxa E. It's a wound steel string (green winding at the peg end and purple at the other end) designed to work well with gut-cored strings (like the Eudoxas) or plain gut like the Chordas, or a synthetic core set. It's also designed not to whistle, shriek or ghost. The tone is rich and solid and carries on very nicely from the tone of the A. It's ideal for baroque style playing (and of course Irish) where open strings are used far more than in later music. If you're into playing in the 7th position or above the tone is powerful without being shrill.
Don't forget that the bow has a very big effect on the tone (both quality and dynamic) of the instrument. Some bows produce a quiet, almost dead, tone; others produce a big tone; yet others produce what seems to be a not particularly loud tone, but that bow may also produce very little hiss, so its sound carries very effectively.
It's time well spent to borrow 3 or 4 bows from a dealer to try out for a week, and money well spent if you find a bow that does exactly what you want it to do.
Interesting to hear about Helicore, along with Tomastik. I gave up on Tomastik Dominants 8 years ago when I got a set of Dogal B48 strings. does anyone else use Dogal?
Helicore disaster...
Helicore disaster...
The casing of my Helicore D just gave way in the middle of a tune...
Have I got a dud, or has anyone else experienced something similar with these strings?
They've been on for about four weeks, so I guess they've had no more than 50 hours of play.
I've had the odd A and E string snap over the years, after months and months of punishment, but I've never had a D string snap like this. I was used to the casing on my Zyex A and D unwinding after quite a lot of playing, but this seems quite unusual.
I don't have a bloody spare at the moment, and there's a session in three hours...
Nightmare.
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by Dragut Reis
Re: Helicore disaster...
Always carry a spare, even if it's a cheaper substitute for emergencies only.
Not being a fiddle-player I don't have the same problems, but I always try to keep at least one complete set of spares in each instrument case. Strings yes. Plectrums many. Even a spare capo.
A fiddle-player at one of my sessions opened his case to discover the tailpiece string had broken. That is definitely NOT something you usually carry a spare of. Luckily we were only ten minutes down the road from home, so I brought the fiddle I've never got on with back and he quite liked it. It did for the evening anyway.
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Helicore disaster...
Sound advice. I only tried the Helicores out recently, so I didn't want to buy a second set until I was sure I liked them. Then of course I just forgot to buy new ones... Duh!
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by Dragut Reis
Re: Helicore disaster...
I have heard that Helicores don't handle a lot of big swings in tension very well--do retune frequently, using the pegs?
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by John Galt
Re: Helicore disaster...
Not really, they've been pretty stable, so I use the adjusters most of the time.
They've never been tuned up to Eb either.
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by Dragut Reis
Re: Helicore disaster...
Many years ago I had a Dominant cello D go soggy on me during an orchestral concert. I thought at first that the peg had slipped but the aluminum string covering had parted company from the core. The result was no sound from that string (nobody noticed during that noisy symphony) so I continued playing until the interval when I replaced it. A couple of weeks later exactly the same thing happened to another cellist's D string, this time during a rehearsal. We wondered at the time if a bad batch of strings had got into the retailers.
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Helicore disaster...
I do hope it's just a dodgy one-off, because these strings really suit my fiddle.
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by Dragut Reis
Re: Helicore disaster...
Meh, it happens. Carry spares. I'm most frustrated when they pop when I'm putting them on. It's not just helicores, it's any wound string that may do this.
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by reenactor
Re: Helicore disaster...
Fair enough. I've put a Zyex on as it's the only spare I've got at the moment, but I really don't like mixing strings. Must get organised...
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by Dragut Reis
Re: Helicore disaster...
I've had two helicores break recently-an A string broke while I was playing and a G that broke after a few weeks just sitting in the case. I think quality has gone down.
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by leoj
Re: Helicore disaster...
I know someone who's had the same set of steels on their fiddle for at least two years, and it sounds great. I don't like the sound of steels on mine at all, and I've found that both Zyex and Helicore, my two favourites so far, have some drawbacks in terms of strength and reliability. Should I just accept that the sound I prefer requires strings that have inherent structural flaws that steels quite simply don't?
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by Dragut Reis
Re: Helicore disaster...
I change my Helicores every couple of months because the sound quality deteriorates very noticeably. A friend uses obligatos now and he says they sound great, last a long time --but they are expensive compared to helicores
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by leoj
Re: Helicore disaster...
Are they similar in tone?
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by Dragut Reis
Re: Helicore disaster...
No. a very different sound--not as bright as helicores, they have a lush mellow sound. I'm thinking of putting them on my new (newly made) fiddle whenever it is arrives!
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by leoj
Re: Helicore disaster...
I have a different issue with my d helicore, it has the most godawful buzz at g for a few days until its worn in. I change strings about every six to 12 months as a set costs around $100 here. Cleaning them from fret to bridge with boogie juice every couple of weeks or so makes a big difference to the life of the string....for me anyway.
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by Joze
Re: Helicore disaster...
$100! Internet...
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by Dragut Reis
Re: Helicore disaster...
I use Helicores, and have to change my A string once every 2-3 months, about twice as often as the rest, as the casing reliably comes unwound right around C-sharp. I keep a spare set and three or four spare A-strings handy.
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by hotsauce
Re: Helicore disaster...
That's what I found happened with Zyex, but with the third finger, on the A and D.
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by Dragut Reis
Re: Helicore disaster...
Obligatos are considered by some players to have the closest sound to gut without actually being gut. They do indeed last a long time and settle down quite quickly from new. They have good carrying power and, as said above, a gorgeous tone.
There are a few things you can do to mitigate the possibility of a string disaster (although the possibility becomes a certainty if the string is inherently defective):
1) have the lowest action you can get away with
2) keep finger-nails nice and short
3) make sure the strings slide smoothly through the grooves in the nut and bridge.
4) never tune above the string tuning pitch referenced to A440.
5) wipe the strings after a playing session (salt from sweat is no good to aluminum windings).
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Helicore disaster...
Some people have trouble with Helicores, but I never have. My current set has been on since August and I've been everywhere from B-flat to D with stops at AEAE and GDGD. Not one string has broken or lost tonal quality or playability. Do you use heavy tension? I do, and I think their robustness really defines their playability and durability.
--DtM
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by Dan the Man
Re: Helicore disaster...
I use the medium tension. Tried the heavy tension but didn't get any better sound with more work. Maybe I'll give Obligatos a try...
Of course, each instrument is different. The one I'm selling sounds horrid with the mediums, but great with the heavies.
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by hotsauce
Re: Helicore disaster...
Interesting about the heavy helicores-I use medium and the A reliably unravels after a month--I always have numerous extras. The thing about strings just breaking though is new to me--it's really a shock when it happens when you're playing. Happens all the time to guitar players.
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by leoj
Re: Helicore disaster...
I am surprise you had a problem with the D Robert because it has a
titanium casing; maybe just a bad batch.
The G and D seem to last forever for me but like leoj, the A only lasts
me for a month before unravelling. That's why I've given up on them.
I am playing Infeld Blues at the moment as an experiment. The A has
a 'hydronalium' (aluminum alloy) casing so I want to see how it holds up.
I've never head of a fiddle string literally snapping, except for E strings.
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by Hup
Re: Helicore disaster...
Now that the Infelds are up to full tension, I'm not that impressed.
While they were breaking in, there was a moment when they were
really responsive and mellow-sounding with a strong sound. Now they
seem dull, but maybe that's because I'm used to the metal sound.
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by Hup
Re: Helicore disaster...
I'm pretty sure the A unravels faster for us fiddlers because it gets twice as much use as the D and E - not so much the casing.
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by reenactor
Re: Helicore disaster...
Interesting that you note the damaging effect of sweat, lazyhound. It seems obvious now that you mention it, and I do get very sweaty hands when I'm playing in a hot session. Is there a particular liquid cleaner that helps keep strings in good condition?
Dan, I'm using medium tension, I haven't tried the heavy ones. Maybe I'll give them a go.
Cheers, everyone, for your feedback.
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by Dragut Reis
Re: Helicore disaster...
I remember a couple of years ago a dodgy batch of Tomastik Dominants arrived in Ireland. The A's kept breaking and alot of the wind unravelled.
I think some shops to be fair realised this and started giving refunds on the strings, and replenished stock to keep them out of the market.
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by jfiddlerh
Re: Helicore disaster...
Hup, with the Infelds try bowing slightly closer to the bridge. This compensates for the lower tension compared with metal to give a brighter and stronger sound. Players who use the even lower tension gut do this as a matter of course.
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Helicore disaster...
The sweat, grime and rosin is why I use boogie juice. It's for cleaning guitar strings but it works well for cleaning off rosin residue, and its made to prolong the life of strings. BTW $100 is what I pay after shipping, tax and exchange rate for strings, retail price is around the $170 mark last time I looked. I dont know who Simcha uses to distribute this stuff in the UK and the US but I can always ask her if anyone is interested.
# Posted on December 19th 2008 by Joze
Re: Helicore disaster...
whoops its "Delft Boogie Juice"
# Posted on December 19th 2008 by Joze
Re: Helicore disaster...
Will do, 'hound. One good thing so far - the intonation is more consistent
because prior to this I had a spirocore A with helicore G and D and a
Vision E that somebody gave me at a session
# Posted on December 19th 2008 by Hup
Re: Helicore disaster...
When the Vision E is worn out (or you get fed up with it!) try the Pirastro Eudoxa E. It's a wound steel string (green winding at the peg end and purple at the other end) designed to work well with gut-cored strings (like the Eudoxas) or plain gut like the Chordas, or a synthetic core set. It's also designed not to whistle, shriek or ghost. The tone is rich and solid and carries on very nicely from the tone of the A. It's ideal for baroque style playing (and of course Irish) where open strings are used far more than in later music. If you're into playing in the 7th position or above the tone is powerful without being shrill.
# Posted on December 19th 2008 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Helicore disaster...
Hmmm - 7th position. I haven't been there for two years now but I
might give it another shot when my Tunes are coming along better.
# Posted on December 19th 2008 by Hup
Re: Helicore disaster...
Don't forget that the bow has a very big effect on the tone (both quality and dynamic) of the instrument. Some bows produce a quiet, almost dead, tone; others produce a big tone; yet others produce what seems to be a not particularly loud tone, but that bow may also produce very little hiss, so its sound carries very effectively.
It's time well spent to borrow 3 or 4 bows from a dealer to try out for a week, and money well spent if you find a bow that does exactly what you want it to do.
# Posted on December 20th 2008 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Helicore disaster...
Interesting to hear about Helicore, along with Tomastik. I gave up on Tomastik Dominants 8 years ago when I got a set of Dogal B48 strings. does anyone else use Dogal?
# Posted on December 25th 2008 by CiaranMulholland
Re: Helicore disaster...
I'm with lazyhound. Obligatos rule !!!!
# Posted on January 8th 2009 by hauke