I've seen a similar discussion but just wondering does anyone have any idea of a price range for Jim McKillop fiddles?? I have €2000-€2500 to spend and can't decide between McKillop, Paul Bradley, and James Beatley - anyone have any thoughts??!! (Not sure I can get a McKillop for that price).
have you tried them? because if your just getting it for the name - even they wouldn't be great name sin terms of irish fiddle making- then dont. if you tried them and like them then i wouldnt be sure, but dont restrict yourself to these names, try lots of fiddles. it doesnt necessarily have to be irish name...names dont really matter though. its where the fiddle was made that determines the way its made, but european and asian are better.
€2,500 is not a lot of dosh for a new violin. I'm not familiar with the makers you name, but if they are only charging in that region, they ain't gonna be top notch.
However, though i'm not saying these makers' instruments will will bad, probably far from it, €2,500 will get you a pretty good old fiddle.
Basically, if you have €20,000 to spend, there are quite a few makers who can challenge the quality of an old instrument for tha same price, but not at €2,500.
I got to try one of Paul Bradley's violins last summer - it was the one he was using for performances and it sounded amazing. The finish wasn't perfect in just one or two spots, but overall it looked very good - I'd buy one now before he gets the glazing process down and triples the price!
In fact one of those names was caught stealing bows in Sotherby's. He later appeared at a concert in my village and was billed as "Mr _______, the finest man in Ireland to ever lift a bow!"
Both James Beatley and Paul Bradley qualified in violin making in Newawrk in England, which is one of the most prestigious violin making schools in the world.
Their instruments are top class and cost in excess of €5,000.
My brother Ruadhrai played one of Paul Bradley's fiddles at the Ennis Trad Fest last year and has said to me on several occasions how exceptionally good Paul Bradley's fiddles are.
If you have €2,500 to spend on a fiddle, my best advise is that you contact Paul Bradley, and he may be in a position to sell you a good second hand fiddle for that price.
And if you live anywhere near Dublin head over to Crehan's Music Shop in Drumcondra where you'll have a chance to try any number of instruments under no obligation to buy. I did this myself some years ago and found a nice instrument for under €900. At the end of the day it's really down to "what it sounds like" rather than a name.
I find the Strad tale to be highly amusing and find it hard to believe. How can any maker turn out newly made fiddles that look like they're a couple of hundred years old?
hynsey1
I've got two very good top end JLT fiddles for sale.Very good playing fiddles which are well within that price range.One them is a very good fiddle which I believe to be well above the quality of many hand made fiddles at very much higher prices.If you live in Ireland I'd be glad to post them to you for a trial and evaluation no strings attached.
"...newly made fiddles that look like they're a couple of hundred years old..."
Well, a modern fiddle in the style of a Strad or whatever can be antiqued to look like it's 300 years old, but it's not a cheap process to do properly, and anyway it would never deceive an expert. For starters, there are only about 600 genuine Strads around, and they're accounted for. And where are you going to get wood that carbon-dates to teh early-18th century?
There is, however, a perfectly legitimate reason for making an instrument that looks like it is a very valuable early-18th century violin. Suppose you are a soloist who plays a genuine Strad (worth, say £€$M1-plus on the open market). The insurance premium will be eye-watering, and the restrictions imposed by the underwriters will probably be quite onerous. So what does our soloist do? He goes to a specialist violin maker who makes a perfect replica of the Strad, using properly seasoned wood and perhaps craftsmanship of the 18th century, which plays and sounds like the real thing. Cost - say £30K. If the instrument is going to be played a lot in public then it gets further specialist antiquing to replicate all the 300-year blemishes and markings etc in the original. Another £10K perhaps. This is what our soloist now plays in public, and no-one will be any the wiser. Meanwhile, the original, if he still keeps it, will be kept at home or in a vault and trotted out only for special occasions, like a recording studio. The saving in insurance premium is substantial and can be covered by the cost of the replica in a few years.
I knew a professional cellist who had this done by an Italian luthier, and he told me the details above.
Now, I wonder how many of these replicas there are around, being played by the top musicians?
A friend of mine has an Amati Model from Beatley and it's a superb instrument. It plays very easily and has a very rich sound. It's nice to play on an old fiddle, but many are not made to the same precision as the best modern instruments. I’ve seen Beatley’s workmanship and his attention to detail, it’s much better than my 19th century violin. It turns out you can get a top notch instrument for €2,500! Apparently he’s a bit of a nerd when it comes to studying the dimensions of old instruments. James Beatley’s website has a catalogue of instruments for sale, his own as well as others, old and new: http://www.beatley.ie
Almost all the old violins have had significant work done on them, so there’s no obvious reason not to get a new one. New fiddle’s do need to be played-in, and they improve a lot with being played.
Blind test of Italian Masters versus Modern Swedish Violin Makers. It turns out that modern violins can be better than the old Italian masters: http://www.westerlunds.se/blindtesteng.htm
I seriousy think you should look at a violin from Peter Boardman if its a quality handmade instrument that you are after. You should ring him up and have a chat . I have one of his violin its a superb instrument and one of my friends purchased one last year and he is over the moon about it. Another of my friends put an order in last year his will be ready next year. If you want quality this is the man. His website address is www.peterboardmanviolinmaker.co.uk
Paul Bradley's fiddles are the best I have ever heard.
As a master fiddle-player he is the supreme judge of an instrument as well as being a great maker.
When I bought a fiddle from him he gave me a deal that I know would not be equalled anywhere and I am very happy with the fiddle. He has a large stock of violins, violas, and celli for sale. He plays one of his own fiddles, which for a player of his mighty calibre, just about says it all.
You can get to know more about Paul on:
Sorry to sound like a geek here, but if you want to submit a "functional" hyperlink here, you have to use what is known as an 'absolute URL', i.e. you have to inclute the 'HyperText Markup Language' (http) bit at the start.
And lastly, "http" is of course an abbreviation for "Hypertext Transfer Protocol". More sleep, more tunes, and less time in front of a computer is needed for me I'm afraid, or else an "edit" function here.
crehans in drumcondra are good for fiddles,,,you can try a number of them and get a good one with a nice tone for bout 300 to800euros,,,,its the tone not the price or the makers name i go for,
Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
Hey guys,
I've seen a similar discussion but just wondering does anyone have any idea of a price range for Jim McKillop fiddles?? I have €2000-€2500 to spend and can't decide between McKillop, Paul Bradley, and James Beatley - anyone have any thoughts??!! (Not sure I can get a McKillop for that price).
# Posted on December 16th 2008 by hynsey1
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
have you tried them? because if your just getting it for the name - even they wouldn't be great name sin terms of irish fiddle making- then dont. if you tried them and like them then i wouldnt be sure, but dont restrict yourself to these names, try lots of fiddles. it doesnt necessarily have to be irish name...names dont really matter though. its where the fiddle was made that determines the way its made, but european and asian are better.
# Posted on December 16th 2008 by fiddleruairi
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
€2,500 is not a lot of dosh for a new violin. I'm not familiar with the makers you name, but if they are only charging in that region, they ain't gonna be top notch.
However, though i'm not saying these makers' instruments will will bad, probably far from it, €2,500 will get you a pretty good old fiddle.
Basically, if you have €20,000 to spend, there are quite a few makers who can challenge the quality of an old instrument for tha same price, but not at €2,500.
# Posted on December 16th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
I got to try one of Paul Bradley's violins last summer - it was the one he was using for performances and it sounded amazing. The finish wasn't perfect in just one or two spots, but overall it looked very good - I'd buy one now before he gets the glazing process down and triples the price!
# Posted on December 16th 2008 by airport
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
Get an Andreas Morelli. No, seriously. Do it now.
# Posted on December 16th 2008 by Farr
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
Tell me why, Farr.
# Posted on December 16th 2008 by Henk Bos
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
In fact one of those names was caught stealing bows in Sotherby's. He later appeared at a concert in my village and was billed as "Mr _______, the finest man in Ireland to ever lift a bow!"
# Posted on December 16th 2008 by iwerzon
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
I saw Bradley play in Kinvara recently on one of his own fiddles, no varnish and what a sound. Beautiful
# Posted on December 16th 2008 by iwerzon
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
Both James Beatley and Paul Bradley qualified in violin making in Newawrk in England, which is one of the most prestigious violin making schools in the world.
Their instruments are top class and cost in excess of €5,000.
My brother Ruadhrai played one of Paul Bradley's fiddles at the Ennis Trad Fest last year and has said to me on several occasions how exceptionally good Paul Bradley's fiddles are.
If you have €2,500 to spend on a fiddle, my best advise is that you contact Paul Bradley, and he may be in a position to sell you a good second hand fiddle for that price.
Kind regards,
Murrough
# Posted on December 16th 2008 by Murrough
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
cheers everyone!!!!!!!
# Posted on December 16th 2008 by hynsey1
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
And if you live anywhere near Dublin head over to Crehan's Music Shop in Drumcondra where you'll have a chance to try any number of instruments under no obligation to buy. I did this myself some years ago and found a nice instrument for under €900. At the end of the day it's really down to "what it sounds like" rather than a name.
I find the Strad tale to be highly amusing and find it hard to believe. How can any maker turn out newly made fiddles that look like they're a couple of hundred years old?
# Posted on December 16th 2008 by Bannerman
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
hynsey1
I've got two very good top end JLT fiddles for sale.Very good playing fiddles which are well within that price range.One them is a very good fiddle which I believe to be well above the quality of many hand made fiddles at very much higher prices.If you live in Ireland I'd be glad to post them to you for a trial and evaluation no strings attached.
# Posted on December 16th 2008 by doire
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
sorry that should read J T L .
# Posted on December 16th 2008 by doire
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
"...newly made fiddles that look like they're a couple of hundred years old..."
Well, a modern fiddle in the style of a Strad or whatever can be antiqued to look like it's 300 years old, but it's not a cheap process to do properly, and anyway it would never deceive an expert. For starters, there are only about 600 genuine Strads around, and they're accounted for. And where are you going to get wood that carbon-dates to teh early-18th century?
There is, however, a perfectly legitimate reason for making an instrument that looks like it is a very valuable early-18th century violin. Suppose you are a soloist who plays a genuine Strad (worth, say £€$M1-plus on the open market). The insurance premium will be eye-watering, and the restrictions imposed by the underwriters will probably be quite onerous. So what does our soloist do? He goes to a specialist violin maker who makes a perfect replica of the Strad, using properly seasoned wood and perhaps craftsmanship of the 18th century, which plays and sounds like the real thing. Cost - say £30K. If the instrument is going to be played a lot in public then it gets further specialist antiquing to replicate all the 300-year blemishes and markings etc in the original. Another £10K perhaps. This is what our soloist now plays in public, and no-one will be any the wiser. Meanwhile, the original, if he still keeps it, will be kept at home or in a vault and trotted out only for special occasions, like a recording studio. The saving in insurance premium is substantial and can be covered by the cost of the replica in a few years.
I knew a professional cellist who had this done by an Italian luthier, and he told me the details above.
Now, I wonder how many of these replicas there are around, being played by the top musicians?
# Posted on December 16th 2008 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
"sounds like the real thing"
I think if it that were a simple task, Strads wouldn't be so valuable.
# Posted on December 16th 2008 by hotsauce
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
"There are quite a few makers who can challenge the quality of an old instrument for the same price, but not at €2,500..."
“I'm not familiar with the makers you name, but if they are only charging in that region, they ain't gonna be top notch.”
‘Top Notch’ is surely going to be a relative term. €2,500 can get you a superb instrument that you will never feel you have to ‘upgrade’ from.
The Irish violin maker Martin McClean says:
“If you're a discerning buyer you can buy a violin for around $10,000 which will be as good as anything you can purchase for up to $100,000.”
from: http://www.violinist.com/discussion/response.cfm?ID=14296
A friend of mine has an Amati Model from Beatley and it's a superb instrument. It plays very easily and has a very rich sound. It's nice to play on an old fiddle, but many are not made to the same precision as the best modern instruments. I’ve seen Beatley’s workmanship and his attention to detail, it’s much better than my 19th century violin. It turns out you can get a top notch instrument for €2,500! Apparently he’s a bit of a nerd when it comes to studying the dimensions of old instruments. James Beatley’s website has a catalogue of instruments for sale, his own as well as others, old and new: http://www.beatley.ie
Almost all the old violins have had significant work done on them, so there’s no obvious reason not to get a new one. New fiddle’s do need to be played-in, and they improve a lot with being played.
Blind test of Italian Masters versus Modern Swedish Violin Makers. It turns out that modern violins can be better than the old Italian masters:
http://www.westerlunds.se/blindtesteng.htm
The secrets of Stradivarius violins:
http://i-newswire.com/goprint35474.html
and:
http://www.flatrock.org.nz/topics/society_culture/fiddling_around_the_lab.htm
# Posted on December 16th 2008 by klhsadhfahslkdfhsalk
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
Catalogue of fiddles for sale: http://www.beatley.ie/VNSALES.HTM
# Posted on December 16th 2008 by klhsadhfahslkdfhsalk
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
Thanks Lazyhound for that information on older instruments - most enlightening.
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by Bannerman
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
Personally, and a lot of people have asked my opinion by e-mail, I would go for Bradley or Beatley.
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
Very adroit, BB
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by Hup
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
I seriousy think you should look at a violin from Peter Boardman if its a quality handmade instrument that you are after. You should ring him up and have a chat . I have one of his violin its a superb instrument and one of my friends purchased one last year and he is over the moon about it. Another of my friends put an order in last year his will be ready next year. If you want quality this is the man. His website address is www.peterboardmanviolinmaker.co.uk
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by brians
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
McKillop definitely.
James Beatley definitely not.
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by evolve as addict
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
Explain!
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by klhsadhfahslkdfhsalk
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
Paul Bradley's fiddles are the best I have ever heard.
As a master fiddle-player he is the supreme judge of an instrument as well as being a great maker.
When I bought a fiddle from him he gave me a deal that I know would not be equalled anywhere and I am very happy with the fiddle. He has a large stock of violins, violas, and celli for sale. He plays one of his own fiddles, which for a player of his mighty calibre, just about says it all.
You can get to know more about Paul on:
www.myspace.com/paulbradleyviolins
www.paulbradleyviolins.ie
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by Declan in Galway
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
Sorry to sound like a geek here, but if you want to submit a "functional" hyperlink here, you have to use what is known as an 'absolute URL', i.e. you have to inclute the 'HyperText Markup Language' (http) bit at the start.
Par example:
http://www.paulbradleyviolins.ie
(this used to be .com but was changed to .ie)
and
http://www.myspace.com/paulbradleyviolins
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by Murrough
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
and of course "include" is spelled with a "d" and not a "t"!
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by Murrough
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
And lastly, "http" is of course an abbreviation for "Hypertext Transfer Protocol". More sleep, more tunes, and less time in front of a computer is needed for me I'm afraid, or else an "edit" function here.
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by Murrough
Re: Fiddle query re: Mckillop; Bradley; Beatley
crehans in drumcondra are good for fiddles,,,you can try a number of them and get a good one with a nice tone for bout 300 to800euros,,,,its the tone not the price or the makers name i go for,
# Posted on November 29th 2010 by gerry1916