Well, there we were, Monday night, potentially being asked to do a short set to finish an evening of acoustic music, BUT........owing to sickness, and what we had individually planned to do, we were a bit short of instruments. The potential lineup was; two whistlers, either who could have played percussion instead, two guitarists, one of whom also had an english concertina, not having a large repertoire on the 'tina. A two-whistle combo was vetoed as being too warbly, I, as the 'tina-player, could also have played a tune on the guitar. Perhaps fortunately we weren't called on in the end....
But, what's an optimum number of anything ? Two rhythm guitars at once is too much for me, two bodrhans also. I don't know if I'd ever say there were too many fiddlers, or flautists.
What do you think, in the optimum situation of course ?
According to my taste (as this is a matter of taste, really), the optimum is:
Four melody instruments.
Or three melody instruments + 1 good accompanist (guitar/bouzouki/mandola).
That's the "Killer B" rule. Only one of the following instruments should be playing at a time in a session: Banjo, Box (guitar or accordion), Bones, Bagpipes, Bouzouki, Bodhran, Bohmbard.
The corellary is that more than five of each instrument is a force of nature.
One bone is fine.........
.... a story by Michael Jackson ( No, not THAT Michael Jackson, the other one ) about an entertainer who came onstage at an OAP concert playing three bones in each hand, explaining that he'd gradually been able to reduce the number he needed, until he was down to one in one hand, still klicking. The audience were arguing about it three hours later, how he did that with just one bone, unaware that, like Karen Carpenter on the drums, unbeknown to them he had an accomplice ( in his case his wife ) behind the curtains with another set.
We call that Zen Bones, the sound of one bone clicking.
reenactor,
Most Maybells have an 11" head which are available at any good music store. The trick is to find the right one since they come in three collar heights. email me at michaelkeyes12@gmail.com and I will send you one if you can't find one locally.
bogman has the right idea, but more than one whistler or piper, unless they are really good, and skilled at playing with each other is more than enough. I would also flex the number of fiddlers up--generally more fiddles doesn't harm the sound at all. Also, I note that bogman included no number for accordions--a Freudian slip, perhaps?
I now have three instruments NONE of which I wish to hear in a session ( other contexts maybe ) ever again; bombard, those little Breton bagpipes, and a daf. Accordions it definitely depends on the player......
Where you can find a gig with four pianos I've no idea, although, wearing my other hat, I did once assemble some furniture for a gentleman with three pianos in one room. What did he do for an encore ? I've really no idea.
I am not too sure how musicians would view this, but can speak with authority on Joe Public.
4 bodhrans, 4/5 guitars, and one banjo and one fiddle seems to be very popular where I live. And actually either the banjo or the fiddle will do, don't actually need both of them.
The only rule is that bodhrans are not required, ever, unless played by one of about three people on the whole planet, and even they should spend most of the time at the bar. Otherwise, play well, listen to everyone else, try to be sensitive and sup yer pint if a tune comes up you can't play on. Did I mention anything about having fun?
You can never have enough spoons. Hey, you can even use them to scoop the froth off the sides of your empty Guinness glass - when you don't know the tune.
Actually, ITM is not actually "required" either is it?
We could just settle for the spoons and the Guinness.
reenactor, Elderly instruments has just about any banjo head you'd ever want. (elderly.com).
many trad players seem to like the "renaissance" head. I put a fyberskin head on my old slingerland and I think it sounds great.
Changing it yourself isn't that difficult, but tensioning it correctly can be a bit tricky.
As mike said, finding the right height is important, I bought the wrong one first.
Sesiunà are for the sharing of tunes. If you are playing the melody of a tune on your instrument, then it doesn't matter how many others are playing the same instrument, you are participating in the actual context of the event. If you are not playing the melody of the tune, then you are only there because the melody musicians are too nice to ask you not clunk away on your chords or shake your spray can.
One crashed lorry or barking dog in a session is one too many.
One hurdy-gurdy, silver flute, backing guitar, keyboard, piano or church organ is enough.
So, in all honesty, is one melodeon or piano-accordion or comparable thingy. Not that I put mine away if another is there first, or bite the ankle of another player who turns up: we box players must stick together, of course!
One can never have too many bagpipes, whistles or flutes...
One song or tune at a time is desirable, even if this can be seen as a hide-bound restriction on artistic exploration and self-expression.
With my alter-ego being a church organist, I would like to say that ITM is one music form I would hesitate to use it for. It is a truly majestic instrument....just a wee bit poorly suited though for the ephemeral nature of ITM.
I suppose if one were doing one of those grossly overproduced Celtic Thunder/Celtic Women/ Amy Grant on Steroids PBS things, they might be a superb element of the orchestration-probably to accompany the 17 or so pipers and snare drums I mentioned above. Maybe used in paralell with a fender stratocaster with fuzz-tone and Wah Wah.
But do you know how difficult it is strapping a pipe organ to one's back and carrying it from pub to pub? And since we are relegated usually a small corner of the bar next to the ladies and gents rooms, the other musicians might end up playing on the curb outside long before such situation would normally happen.
Besides, parctically speaking, I have yet to see a gig bag large enough for a reasonable qulaity size pipe organ.
Ah, but it's worth it if a wandering biniou player comes in - surely?
(This is so far outwith my experience. Biniou = small Breton bagpipe, btw. Organ + biniou is a good combination, unless it's really organ and bombarde and I've got it wrong.)
I think a problem with two or more boxes is that they easily get out of synch with each other, whereas two or more wind instruments can get right down in the groove.
By the way, zippydw, is Amy Grant any good? I've known fans of hers, but not heard her stuff.
I noticed at our session this week we had 2 button accordions, 2 banjos, 2 guitars, 2 fiddles, 1 whistle, 1 flute and 1 bodhran. It certainly gave a good all round sound and all that would have improved it would be more flute/whistle/pipes or for there just to have been one instrument of each.
How many of one instrument is too many ?
How many of one instrument is too many ?
Well, there we were, Monday night, potentially being asked to do a short set to finish an evening of acoustic music, BUT........owing to sickness, and what we had individually planned to do, we were a bit short of instruments. The potential lineup was; two whistlers, either who could have played percussion instead, two guitarists, one of whom also had an english concertina, not having a large repertoire on the 'tina. A two-whistle combo was vetoed as being too warbly, I, as the 'tina-player, could also have played a tune on the guitar. Perhaps fortunately we weren't called on in the end....
But, what's an optimum number of anything ? Two rhythm guitars at once is too much for me, two bodrhans also. I don't know if I'd ever say there were too many fiddlers, or flautists.
What do you think, in the optimum situation of course ?
# Posted on December 3rd 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
According to my taste (as this is a matter of taste, really), the optimum is:
Four melody instruments.
Or three melody instruments + 1 good accompanist (guitar/bouzouki/mandola).
# Posted on December 3rd 2008 by Janek
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
In a singers' session, one.
# Posted on December 3rd 2008 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
That's the "Killer B" rule. Only one of the following instruments should be playing at a time in a session: Banjo, Box (guitar or accordion), Bones, Bagpipes, Bouzouki, Bodhran, Bohmbard.
The corellary is that more than five of each instrument is a force of nature.
MIke Keyes
http://www.mikekeyes.com
# Posted on December 3rd 2008 by mikeyes
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
Never too many bagpipers. With snare drums. Stirring, particularly on airs.
One might stop at 6 bodhrans though
# Posted on December 3rd 2008 by zippydw
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
Fiddles 3
Pipes 2
Flute 2
Whistle 2
Guitar 1
Mandola 1
Bodhran 1
Banjo 1
Bones - You have got to be kidding
And a maximum of 6 in total of the above.
Utopia to Bogman.
# Posted on December 3rd 2008 by bogman
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
One bone is perfectly acceptable...
# Posted on December 3rd 2008 by Finbar Saunders2
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
Ha ha, yes, ONE bone is fine by me too
# Posted on December 3rd 2008 by bogman
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
Mike - ha!
Unrelated question, where in WI should I go to have a new head put on my banjo (an old may bell) and do you have any recommendations?
# Posted on December 3rd 2008 by reenactor
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
2 pipes - yuk.
17 or depending on my mood, 18 banjo's.
# Posted on December 3rd 2008 by Hugo Chavez
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
One bone is fine.........
.... a story by Michael Jackson ( No, not THAT Michael Jackson, the other one ) about an entertainer who came onstage at an OAP concert playing three bones in each hand, explaining that he'd gradually been able to reduce the number he needed, until he was down to one in one hand, still klicking. The audience were arguing about it three hours later, how he did that with just one bone, unaware that, like Karen Carpenter on the drums, unbeknown to them he had an accomplice ( in his case his wife ) behind the curtains with another set.
# Posted on December 3rd 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
We call that Zen Bones, the sound of one bone clicking.
reenactor,
Most Maybells have an 11" head which are available at any good music store. The trick is to find the right one since they come in three collar heights. email me at michaelkeyes12@gmail.com and I will send you one if you can't find one locally.
Mike Keyes
http://www.mikekeyes.com
# Posted on December 3rd 2008 by mikeyes
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
bogman has the right idea, but more than one whistler or piper, unless they are really good, and skilled at playing with each other is more than enough. I would also flex the number of fiddlers up--generally more fiddles doesn't harm the sound at all. Also, I note that bogman included no number for accordions--a Freudian slip, perhaps?
# Posted on December 3rd 2008 by AlBrown
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
I think Barry Foy settled all this in his book.
Absolute maximum of four pianos!
# Posted on December 4th 2008 by polkageist
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
I now have three instruments NONE of which I wish to hear in a session ( other contexts maybe ) ever again; bombard, those little Breton bagpipes, and a daf. Accordions it definitely depends on the player......
Where you can find a gig with four pianos I've no idea, although, wearing my other hat, I did once assemble some furniture for a gentleman with three pianos in one room. What did he do for an encore ? I've really no idea.
# Posted on December 4th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
I am not too sure how musicians would view this, but can speak with authority on Joe Public.
4 bodhrans, 4/5 guitars, and one banjo and one fiddle seems to be very popular where I live. And actually either the banjo or the fiddle will do, don't actually need both of them.
And sing plenty of songs.
# Posted on December 4th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
The only rule is that bodhrans are not required, ever, unless played by one of about three people on the whole planet, and even they should spend most of the time at the bar. Otherwise, play well, listen to everyone else, try to be sensitive and sup yer pint if a tune comes up you can't play on. Did I mention anything about having fun?
# Posted on December 4th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
You can never have enough spoons. Hey, you can even use them to scoop the froth off the sides of your empty Guinness glass - when you don't know the tune.
Actually, ITM is not actually "required" either is it?
We could just settle for the spoons and the Guinness.
# Posted on December 4th 2008 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
Then again, if you're a fiddler, you can always scoop the froth off someone else's Guinness when they're not looking.
That's a lot smarter.
# Posted on December 4th 2008 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
...bows have more uses than just the obvious.
# Posted on December 4th 2008 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
reenactor, Elderly instruments has just about any banjo head you'd ever want. (elderly.com).
many trad players seem to like the "renaissance" head. I put a fyberskin head on my old slingerland and I think it sounds great.
Changing it yourself isn't that difficult, but tensioning it correctly can be a bit tricky.
As mike said, finding the right height is important, I bought the wrong one first.
# Posted on December 4th 2008 by CleverName
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
Yep. I always feel like a bit of an old skinhead in my bumslinger banjo too.
Slingerland - ROFL - that's a classic.
# Posted on December 4th 2008 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
Sesiunà are for the sharing of tunes. If you are playing the melody of a tune on your instrument, then it doesn't matter how many others are playing the same instrument, you are participating in the actual context of the event. If you are not playing the melody of the tune, then you are only there because the melody musicians are too nice to ask you not clunk away on your chords or shake your spray can.
# Posted on December 4th 2008 by Tadhg mac Saoirse
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
One crashed lorry or barking dog in a session is one too many.
One hurdy-gurdy, silver flute, backing guitar, keyboard, piano or church organ is enough.
So, in all honesty, is one melodeon or piano-accordion or comparable thingy. Not that I put mine away if another is there first, or bite the ankle of another player who turns up: we box players must stick together, of course!
One can never have too many bagpipes, whistles or flutes...
One song or tune at a time is desirable, even if this can be seen as a hide-bound restriction on artistic exploration and self-expression.
# Posted on December 4th 2008 by nicholas
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
nicholas
With my alter-ego being a church organist, I would like to say that ITM is one music form I would hesitate to use it for. It is a truly majestic instrument....just a wee bit poorly suited though for the ephemeral nature of ITM.
I suppose if one were doing one of those grossly overproduced Celtic Thunder/Celtic Women/ Amy Grant on Steroids PBS things, they might be a superb element of the orchestration-probably to accompany the 17 or so pipers and snare drums I mentioned above. Maybe used in paralell with a fender stratocaster with fuzz-tone and Wah Wah.
But do you know how difficult it is strapping a pipe organ to one's back and carrying it from pub to pub? And since we are relegated usually a small corner of the bar next to the ladies and gents rooms, the other musicians might end up playing on the curb outside long before such situation would normally happen.
Besides, parctically speaking, I have yet to see a gig bag large enough for a reasonable qulaity size pipe organ.
# Posted on December 4th 2008 by zippydw
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
Ah, but it's worth it if a wandering biniou player comes in - surely?
(This is so far outwith my experience. Biniou = small Breton bagpipe, btw. Organ + biniou is a good combination, unless it's really organ and bombarde and I've got it wrong.)
I think a problem with two or more boxes is that they easily get out of synch with each other, whereas two or more wind instruments can get right down in the groove.
By the way, zippydw, is Amy Grant any good? I've known fans of hers, but not heard her stuff.
# Posted on December 4th 2008 by nicholas
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
I noticed at our session this week we had 2 button accordions, 2 banjos, 2 guitars, 2 fiddles, 1 whistle, 1 flute and 1 bodhran. It certainly gave a good all round sound and all that would have improved it would be more flute/whistle/pipes or for there just to have been one instrument of each.
# Posted on December 5th 2008 by FiddleFi
Re: How many of one instrument is too many ?
I once witnessed The Slide Whistle Quartet give a recital. Disquieting...
# Posted on December 6th 2008 by pipewatcher